Peak Lebron vs Peak Kobe

[TripleA]

Who has was better or had more impact in game.

Peak Kobe or Peak Lebron?

I think Kobe was a better scorer at his peak but Lebron in 2012-2013 and 2011-2012 was amazing defensively and improved on his weaknesses like posting up and shooting.

[SouBeachTalents]

Neither of them were really any good

[stalkerforlife]

Be serious.

Kobe would ROCK Bran 1 on 1. Kobe is 100 times more skilled.

Have you people NOT seen Bran against 1 on 1 coverage? Iggy just got a damn finals MVP by guarding Bran.

[Rocketswin2013]

Not even sure what a peak Bryant is but '09 and '12 LeBron easily top any version of him and '10, '13, and '14 are comfortably ahead. Bryant wasn't even considered by the media as better than LeBron James in '06, a season where LeBron James nearly won the regular season MVP and easily beat Bryant on votes. Add to the fact that in that same season, James easily performed better than Bryant in the postseason against defenses of, at worst the same caliber and the gap is even more clear.

[raprap]

Be serious.

Kobe would ROCK Bran 1 on 1. Kobe is 100 times more skilled.

Have you people NOT seen Bran against 1 on 1 coverage? Iggy just got a damn finals MVP by guarding Bran.
Dumb argument. :oldlol:

[Papaya Petee]

Lebron by a mile.

[eliteballer]

Not even sure what a peak Bryant is but '09 and '12 LeBron easily top any version of him and '10, '13, and '14 are comfortably ahead. Bryant wasn't even considered by the media as better than LeBron James in '06, a season where LeBron James nearly won the regular season MVP and easily beat Bryant on votes. Add to the fact that in that same season, James easily performed better than Bryant in the postseason against defenses of, at worst the same caliber and the gap is even more clear.

What a horrid analysis. Put Kobe on those Miami Super Teams in the weak East and see him dominate to an unfathomable degree.

A past prime Kobe averaged 30/6/6 over 3 finals runs which was cumulatively at least as good as LeBron's run with the Heat in his prime against hilariously weak competition in the East.

[TheMarkMadsen]

we needed this thread..

[LoneyROY7]

Wilt.

[RRR3]

Chalmers

[Cold soul]

We haven't seen this thread before hundreds of times already.

[Rocketswin2013]

What a horrid analysis. Put Kobe on those Miami Super Teams in the weak East and see him dominate to an unfathomale degree.

A past prime Kobe averaged 30/6/6 over 3 finals runs which was cumulatively at least as good as LeBron's run with the Heat in his prime against hilariously weak competition in the East.
Bryant has been regressing almost every time he faced a "weak east" playoff defense in his entire career. I remember reading threads here from the summer of '10 of his own fans saying how he'd have prime Jordan-level playoff runs several times in his career('01, '08, '09, '10) if he brought it against the tougher defenses of the East. Even against Orlando his efficiency wasn't great, and he was significantly worse than James was just a weekl before against them. Only thing is, LeBron didn't have ridiculously hot team around him like Kobe. He, actually face one.

Also, I don't get why you are bringing up super teams and whatnot. Kobe will even tell you how lucky he's been supporting cast-wise. And even then I'd say LeBron had great overall help for two and a half years of his career in Miami. Bosh missed large chunks of the postseason in 2012. In 2013, the 2nd and third option regressed, the team defense regressed but the bench and 3pt shooting was great. Hard to really gauge the help.

[Marchesk]

Benard King

[Mr. Jabbar]

peak kobe would dunk on lequits ass non stop 24/7/365, not even fair tbh. i say this as a hardcore leking fan so take it with a grain of salt

[Lebron23]

What's Kobe's stats against the Weak East??

25.3 ppg on 40.2 FG%.

[Smoke117]

What the actual f@ck? Cut it out with the kobe threads...jesus christ. We don't need a dozen a god damn day.

[PP34Deuce]

Peak scoring lebron.... This version of Lebron is more equipped to be a 23PPG 8 and 8 Player. This version of Lebron doesn't have a strong first step and would benefit being the 1B to another player 1A.

Bron 2008-2012 could score easier and had a better jumpshot. That lebron was a nightmare when focused.

[Bandito]

What's Kobe's stats against the Weak East??

25.3 ppg on 40.2 FG%.
you forgot 5 rings.

[Wade's Rings]

Peak scoring lebron.... This version of Lebron is more equipped to be a 23PPG 8 and 8 Player. This version of Lebron doesn't have a strong first step and would benefit being the 1B to another player 1A.

Bron 2008-2012 could score easier and had a better jumpshot. That lebron was a nightmare when focused.

:roll:

[ImKobe]

older Kobe was schooling peak Lebron in 09 and Lebron at the time admitted that Kobe was the best player in the world.

[ShawkFactory]

older Kobe was schooling peak Lebron in 09 and Lebron at the time admitted that Kobe was the best player in the world.
Then what happened in 2010?

[brownmamba00]

Then what happened in 2010?
kobe won b2b

[HOoopCityJones]

kobe won b2b

:lol

[West-Side]

kobe won b2b

:roll: Oh my god, that was pure ether.

[G0ATbe]

http://ak-hdl.buzzfed.com/static/enhanced/webdr02/2013/2/17/23/anigif_enhanced-buzz-25053-1361162180-3.gif
http://33.media.tumblr.com/fb7cda7af67162ff51b05829f44301f8/tumblr_n14euzsAHI1qcmnsoo2_400.gif

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

kobe won b2b

:lebronamazed:

[ArbitraryWater]

nice thread

[ShawkFactory]

kobe won b2b
Not bad.

Got schooled head-2-head tho.

[kennethgriffin]

What's Kobe's stats against the Weak East??

25.3 ppg on 40.2 FG%.




kobe vs the west = 28-8

kobe 50+ win teams beatin = 24



lebron vs the west = 2-6

lebron 50+ win teams beatin = 7



only stat that matters

[RRR3]

Rings won on a team with less than 50 wins


LeBron: 1
Kobe: 0

[SouBeachTalents]

kobe vs the west = 28-8

kobe 50+ win teams beatin = 24



lebron vs the west = 2-6

lebron 50+ win teams beatin = 7



only stat that matters

Giving Kobe full credit for series wins from '97-'00?

And LeBron's not actually 2-6 against the West, he's 2-4

[West-Side]

Rings won on a team with less than 50 wins


LeBron: 1
Kobe: 0

Kobe beat more 50+ win teams in two years (playing with Pau Gasol) than LeBron has in his entire NBA career.

[sdot_thadon]

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view/181833/bron-ownage-o.gif

[ShawkFactory]

kobe vs the west = 28-8

kobe 50+ win teams beatin = 24



lebron vs the west = 2-6

lebron 50+ win teams beatin = 7



only stat that matters
You STILL continue to list 24 as the number of 50 win teams Kobe has beaten :lol

[West-Side]

You STILL continue to list 24 as the number of 50 win teams Kobe has beaten :lol

Doesn't even matter; in 09' & 10' Kobe beat SEVEN teams that had 50+ wins during the regular season to win back to back championships. The other team he beat had 48 wins.

That's already the same amount of teams LeBron has beaten in 11+ years.

[Lebron23]

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view/424273/lebron-blocks-kobe-dunk-o.gif

[RRR3]

Doesn't even matter; in 09' & 10' Kobe beat SEVEN teams that had 50+ wins during the regular season to win back to back championships. The other team he beat had 48 wins.

That's already the same amount of teams LeBron has beaten in 11+ years.
LeBron on a ring on a 46 win team.

[West-Side]

LeBron on a ring on a 46 win team.

Yeah with a stacked ass roster.
Pathetic.

So you're giving him credit because he couldn't win more than 46 regular season games on those stacked Heat teams? Wow, he's the greatest thing since sliced bread. :facepalm

[ShawkFactory]

Doesn't even matter; in 09' & 10' Kobe beat SEVEN teams that had 50+ wins during the regular season to win back to back championships. The other team he beat had 48 wins.

That's already the same amount of teams LeBron has beaten in 11+ years.
Don't really care about that. Obviously he's going to beat more 50 win teams in the west.

It's just humorous seeing him continue to list 24 :lol

[RRR3]

Yeah with a stacked ass roster.
Pathetic.

So you're giving him credit because he couldn't win more than 46 regular season games on those stacked Heat teams? Wow, he's the greatest thing since sliced bread. :facepalm
Dumber than a sack of hammers :yaohappy:

[Lebron23]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MIA/2012.html

[Dr Seuss]

LeBron on a ring on a 46 win team.

:cheers:

nice! winning a championship with a record that may have not even made the playoffs in the west. Goat gonna goat.

[SouBeachTalents]

No moron on here is gonna realize LeBron won 46 games during the lockout season. It's honestly not much of a positive or negative to win 46 out of 66 games

[RRR3]

No moron on here is gonna realize LeBron won 46 games during the lockout season. It's honestly not much of a positive or negative to win 46 out of 66 games
The point is that if the 2012 Pacers and Thunder don't count as 50 win teams, then by that same "logic", LeBron won with a team that "only won 46 games".

[tmacattack33]

2012 Lebron and 2009 Lebron were the best peaks we've seen since 2003 Duncan and early 2000s Shaq.

[kennethgriffin]

Giving Kobe full credit for series wins from '97-'00?

And LeBron's not actually 2-6 against the West, he's 2-4


ok fine start it at 2000 and its 23 teams with 50+ wins beatin







1997-98 Seattle SuperSonics Record: 61-21 ***** VOID!*****
1999-00 Phoenix Suns Record: 53-29
1999-00 Portland Trail Blazers Record: 59-23
1999-00 Indiana Pacers Record: 56-26
1999-00 NBA Champions
2000-01 Portland Trail Blazers Record: 50-32
2000-01 Sacramento Kings Record: 55-27
2000-01 San Antonio Spurs Record: 58-24
2000-01 Philadelphia 76ers Record: 56-26
2000-01 NBA Champions
2001-02 San Antonio Spurs Record: 58-24
2001-02 Sacramento Kings Record: 61-21
2001-02 New Jersey Nets Record: 52-30
2001-02 NBA Champions
2002-03 Minnesota Timberwolves Record: 51-31
2003-04 San Antonio Spurs Record: 57-25
2003-04 Minnesota Timberwolves Record: 58-24
2003-04 NBA Finals
2007-08 Denver Nuggets Record: 50-32
2007-08 Utah Jazz Record: 54-28
2007-08 San Antonio Spurs Record: 56-26
2007-08 NBA Finals
2008-09 Houston Rockets Record: 53-29
2008-09 Denver Nuggets Record: 54-28
2008-09 Orlando Magic Record: 59-23
2008-09 NBA Champions
2009-10 Oklahoma City Thunder Record: 50-32
2009-10 Utah Jazz Record: 53-29
2009-10 Phoenix Suns Record: 54-28
2009-10 Boston Celtics Record: 50-32
2009-10 NBA Champions


total = 23 playoff series victories, 5 championships, 7 finals







http://i.imgur.com/84DEUMf.gif


http://37.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mdnbutyYzX1r270ozo6_250.gif

[SouBeachTalents]

You shouldn't count 2000 either since he was undoubtably the 2nd best player on that team. You're really gonna give him full credit for the 2000 Finals when he averaged 16 ppg on 37% while Shaq averaged 38 and averaged more rebounds per game than Kobe did points? 2001 on, when he became 1B is fair, 2000 is not, that'd be like giving Wade full credit for the Heat's title in 2012

[West-Side]

ok fine start it at 2000 and its 23 teams with 50+ wins beatin







1997-98 Seattle SuperSonics Record: 61-21 ***** VOID!*****
1999-00 Phoenix Suns Record: 53-29
1999-00 Portland Trail Blazers Record: 59-23
1999-00 Indiana Pacers Record: 56-26
1999-00 NBA Champions
2000-01 Portland Trail Blazers Record: 50-32
2000-01 Sacramento Kings Record: 55-27
2000-01 San Antonio Spurs Record: 58-24
2000-01 Philadelphia 76ers Record: 56-26
2000-01 NBA Champions
2001-02 San Antonio Spurs Record: 58-24
2001-02 Sacramento Kings Record: 61-21
2001-02 New Jersey Nets Record: 52-30
2001-02 NBA Champions
2002-03 Minnesota Timberwolves Record: 51-31
2003-04 San Antonio Spurs Record: 57-25
2003-04 Minnesota Timberwolves Record: 58-24
2003-04 NBA Finals
2007-08 Denver Nuggets Record: 50-32
2007-08 Utah Jazz Record: 54-28
2007-08 San Antonio Spurs Record: 56-26
2007-08 NBA Finals
2008-09 Houston Rockets Record: 53-29
2008-09 Denver Nuggets Record: 54-28
2008-09 Orlando Magic Record: 59-23
2008-09 NBA Champions
2009-10 Oklahoma City Thunder Record: 50-32
2009-10 Utah Jazz Record: 53-29
2009-10 Phoenix Suns Record: 54-28
2009-10 Boston Celtics Record: 50-32
2009-10 NBA Champions


total = 23 playoff series victories, 5 championships, 7 finals







http://i.imgur.com/84DEUMf.gif


http://37.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mdnbutyYzX1r270ozo6_250.gif

That's insane; in order for Kobe to have a 3-peat he had to beat a 50+ win team 11 out of 12 times. And the only team that didn't win 50 games was the Jazz, who won 48 games in 2009.

That's crazy.

[tpols]

Then what happened in 2010?


kobe won b2b

http://assets.rollingstone.com/assets/images/video/drake-takes-on-lil-wayne-jay-z-and-a-rod-on-snl-20140119/20140118-drake-thumb-306x306-1390145726.jpg

[West-Side]

Kobe with Pau & Lamar beat 10 50+ win teams in a 3 year span (out of 12 possible competitors). Just crazy how difficult his road to the titles were.

I almost forgot his greatness during that time span. He just destroyed teams in the western conference those years.

[swagga]

That's insane; in order for Kobe to have a 3-peat he had to beat a 50+ win team 11 out of 12 times. And the only team that didn't win 50 games was the Jazz, who won 48 games in 2009.

That's crazy.

with a super stacked team :oldlol:

lebron with shaq
AND
lebron with odom gasol bynum

gets you 7-10 rings or something stupid like that. and I love kobe, in 06 niggga was MUST watch, but he's a thing of the past, he don't fit in with modern basketball, kobe's a relic of the 90s.

[kennethgriffin]

You shouldn't count 2000 either since he was undoubtably the 2nd best player on that team. You're really gonna give him full credit for the 2000 Finals when he averaged 16 ppg on 37% while Shaq averaged 38 and averaged more rebounds per game than Kobe did points? 2001 on, when he became 1B is fair, 2000 is not, that'd be like giving Wade full credit for the Heat's title in 2012

only a few problems though


kobe saved/won the lakers the WCF with his game 7 performance

team leader in points - 24
team leader in rebounds - 11
team leader in assists - 7
team leader in blocks - 4


series average = 20/6/5/2


and as main playmaker #1 assist leader ( basically running PG ) while also averaging 21ppg for the playoffs... that makes him a vital part in the lakers offense

not to mention making 1st team all defense that season

so kobe was basically a tony parker/kawhi leonard combo

held reggie miller to 1 for 16 shooting in game 1 of the nba finals

saved game 4 of the nba finals

and had 26/10/4/2/1 in the clinching finals game 6



not to mention hitting game winners vs phoenix in round 2

and averaging 28ppg in round 1 vs the up and coming sacramento kings that took LA to the maximum 5 games ( basically a game 7 at the time )



take away any of these things from any of these series and LA probly doesnt win any of the series






OH WE'RE ON THIS TOPIC AGAIN!


GREAT!

:lol :lol :lol :lol

[Young X]

Kobe with Pau & Lamar beat 10 50+ win teams in a 3 year span (out of 12 possible competitors). Just crazy how difficult his road to the titles were.

I almost forgot his greatness during that time span. He just destroyed teams in the western conference those years.His road wasn't that difficult. The Lakers were clearly on a different level from every team they faced and had homecourt in every series. None of their opponents aside from maybe the '09 Nuggets were dangerous. The west wasn't like it is now where their are 5-6 teams that are real threats.

[Wade's Rings]

His road wasn't that difficult. The Lakers were clearly on a different level from every team they faced and had homecourt in every series. None of their opponents aside from maybe the '09 Nuggets were dangerous. The west wasn't like it is now where their are 5-6 teams that are real threats.

:lebronamazed:

[ShawkFactory]

His road wasn't that difficult. The Lakers were clearly on a different level from every team they faced and had homecourt in every series. None of their opponents aside from maybe the '09 Nuggets were dangerous. The west wasn't like it is now where their are 5-6 teams that are real threats.
This is actually very true. He played awesome ball but the strength of the other teams gets blown out of proportion.

[West-Side]

with a super stacked team :oldlol:

lebron with shaq
AND
lebron with odom gasol bynum

gets you 7-10 rings or something stupid like that. and I love kobe, in 06 niggga was MUST watch, but he's a thing of the past, he don't fit in with modern basketball, kobe's a relic of the 90s.

LeBron could only go 2 for 4 with Wade & Bosh; against teams far weaker than anything Kobe faced.

00' Pacers, 00' Blazers, 01' Spurs, 01' Kings, 02' Kings, 08' Celtics, 10' Celtics are far tougher than the Dallas team that beat LeBron or the Spurs team that beat LeBron.

****ing morons, stfu already.

[sdot_thadon]

and as main playmaker #1 assist leader ( basically running PG ) while also averaging 21ppg for the playoffs... that makes him a vital part in the lakers offense*


Sorry Kenneth but this alone disqualifies him via the sidekick provision. See: Pippen, Scottie.

ish standards collide
:wtf:

[West-Side]

Sorry Kenneth but this alone disqualifies him via the sidekick provision. See: Pippen, Scottie.

ish standards collide
:wtf:

Yeah that's why Jordan and Shaquille couldn't win jack shit without Kobe & Pippen. Does that not make them vital parts of the team?

If Kobe was a sidekick in 01' and 02' than name me 5 players (besides Shaq) that had better playoff numbers (or regular season numbers) than Kobe in those two years.

[RRR3]

Yeah that's why Jordan and Shaquille couldn't win jack shit without Kobe & Pippen. Does that not make them vital parts of the team?

If Kobe was a sidekick in 01' and 02' than name me 5 players (besides Shaq) that had better playoff numbers (or regular season numbers) than Kobe in those two years.
Kareem
Jordan
Bird
Magic
Wilt
Duncan
LeBron
Wade
Dirk
West
Baylor
Oscar
Dr. j
Moses
Barkley

Etc

[kennethgriffin]

Sorry Kenneth but this alone disqualifies him via the sidekick provision. See: Pippen, Scottie.

ish standards collide
:wtf:


Didnt i cause kobe haters a massive prolapsed an*s collectively when i turned that argument back on them


Disqualifying shaqs 2006 ring due to him not even being a side kick in the finals. And infact being 3rd leading scorer behind antoine walker. And thus having accomplished absolutely nothing in his entire career without kobe bryant


While kobes had a top 10 all time career even in just the time since shaq left...


Making kobes case over shaq all time pretty much signed sealed and delivered in concrete













Oops

[West-Side]

Kareem
Jordan
Bird
Magic
Wilt
Duncan
LeBron
Wade
Dirk
West
Baylor
Oscar
Dr. j
Moses
Barkley

Etc

Are you a retard, seriously?

[RRR3]

Are you a retard, seriously?
You don't think I can find two years from each of those players that are better than 01 and 02 Kobe?

If you mean consecutive years, then you are right and I can't find many players.

[West-Side]

Didnt i cause kobe haters a massive prolapsed an*s collectively when i turned that argument back on them


Disqualifying shaqs 2006 ring due to him not even being a side kick in the finals. And infact being 3rd leading scorer behind antoine walker. And thus having accomplished absolutely nothing in his entire career without kobe bryant


While kobes had a top 10 all time career even in just the time since shaq left...


Making kobes case over shaq all time pretty much signed sealed and delivered in concrete













Oops

Or the simple fact that Shaquille played with guys like Van Axel, Penny, Campbell, Jones and couldn't win jack shit.

[sdot_thadon]

Yeah that's why Jordan and Shaquille couldn't win jack shit without Kobe & Pippen. Does that not make them vital parts of the team?

If Kobe was a sidekick in 01' and 02' than name me 5 players (besides Shaq) that had better playoff numbers (or regular season numbers) than Kobe in those two years.

That's the beauty, they both deserve credit but I see people being hypocrites attempting to push both sides on this board. Mj won without help, yet kobe helped shaq in 2000. I agree they both don't deserve full credit but they should be credited for being integral. Kobes 5 rings claim is a bit laughable unless pippen can get some similar credit as well, obviously less though.

Don't ever lose sight of what the difference is between the man and the sidekick. Kobe actually was arguably the best sidekick ever aside from scottie.

[West-Side]

You don't think I can find two years from each of those players that are better than 01 and 02 Kobe?

Dumbass, I clearly meant find me 5 players that were better than Kobe in 01' & 02' playoff. As in, players that were currently in the league at the time.

Since dipshits like you keep labeling Kobe a "sidekick" yet the man was a clear superstar in the league. Just because he played alongside Shaq doesn't mean he wasn't a top 5 player in the league, which ultimately makes him a superstar.

:oldlol: @ you idiots also claiming that LeBron could have won all 3 titles with Shaq during those years. I guess he could have but it's not that simple. Neither of them are good at the line; LeBron has a history of disappearing in big games and the spacing is a huge question mark.

So to all those idiots claiming LeBron could win 7/8 titles from 2000 to 2010 giving Kobe's teams are nothing but trolls. This is the same clown that predicted those same 7/8 titles with the Heat, we all know how that ended. :rolleyes:

[Kvnzhangyay]

Peakwise Kobe is not even close to Lebron, let alone MJ

[Soundwave]

I think peak LeBron has a better all around game and efficiency, but I think peak Kobe is actually harder to guard and a better defender (slightly, I think LeBron's D is overrated).

It's close, I'd say it's basically a toss-up.

Peak Kobe would've won 2 titles with Wade + Bosh easy too, maybe 3. So at the end of the day I don't think one is that much better than the other.

I think it depends on the team match up too ... Kobe is tougher match up for certain teams like San Antonio and Dallas, whereas maybe LeBron is harder for a team like Boston and OKC to deal with.

[RRR3]

Dumbass, I clearly meant find me 5 players that were better than Kobe in 01' & 02' playoff. As in, players that were currently in the league at the time.

Since dipshits like you keep labeling Kobe a "sidekick" yet the man was a clear superstar in the league. Just because he played alongside Shaq doesn't mean he wasn't a top 5 player in the league, which ultimately makes him a superstar.

:oldlol: @ you idiots also claiming that LeBron could have won all 3 titles with Shaq during those years. I guess he could have but it's not that simple. Neither of them are good at the line; LeBron has a history of disappearing in big games and the spacing is a huge question mark.

So to all those idiots claiming LeBron could win 7/8 titles from 2000 to 2010 giving Kobe's teams are nothing but trolls. This is the same clown that predicted those same 7/8 titles with the Heat, we all know how that ended. :rolleyes:
Ohhhh....my bad bro, you are right you couldn't find 5 better than Kobe in 01 and 02.

I think (besides Shaq) Duncan would have the best case.

[ShawkFactory]

Ohhhh....my bad bro, you are right you couldn't find 5 better than Kobe in 01 and 02.

I think (besides Shaq) Duncan would have the best case.
Duncan absolutely in 02.

[aj1987]

Yeah with a stacked ass roster.
Pathetic.

So you're giving him credit because he couldn't win more than 46 regular season games on those stacked Heat teams? Wow, he's the greatest thing since sliced bread. :facepalm
Ironic, considering Kobe was a sidekick to a top 5 GOAT for the 3peat and had ultrastacked teams during his back-to-back.

[Dom213]

peak kobe would dunk on lequits ass non stop 24/7/365, not even fair tbh. i say this as a hardcore leking fan so take it with a grain of salt
:applause: Mr. Jabbar never ceases to amaze me with his maturity in these discussions. Lebron fans should take notes.

[TheMarkMadsen]

His road wasn't that difficult. The Lakers were clearly on a different level from every team they faced and had homecourt in every series. None of their opponents aside from maybe the '09 Nuggets were dangerous. The west wasn't like it is now where their are 5-6 teams that are real threats.

the west in 08 and 2010 had all 8 teams in the playoffs win 50+ games..

i'm sure that just happens ever year huh..

[TheMarkMadsen]

Ironic, considering Kobe was a sidekick to a top 5 GOAT for the 3peat and had ultrastacked teams during his back-to-back.

Paul Gasol
Lamar Odom
Trevor Ariza
Derek Fisher
Andrew Bynum (put up 6 & 4 during the playoffs)
Luke Walton

these were the 6 players with the most playing time in the playoffs in 09 minus Kobe

ultrastacked doe :oldlol: :oldlol:

this is the same type of idiot who will turn around and claim the HEAT were never stacked

[Levity]

Paul Gasol
Lamar Odom
Trevor Ariza
Derek Fisher
Andrew Bynum (put up 6 & 4 during the playoffs)
Luke Walton



its funny, the current ISH mob would say that team wouldnt even get HCA in the west if they were to play today.

[Young X]

the west in 08 and 2010 had all 8 teams in the playoffs win 50+ games..

i'm sure that just happens ever year huh..Now how many of those teams were serious threats to the Lakers?

[JohnMax]

Kobe at the tail end of his prime - 2/3 in the Finals


Lebron entering his prime - 2/5 in the Finals

[Levity]

Now how many of those teams were serious threats to the Lakers?

because a team wasnt a serious threat to said team, it doesnt count? Curious to hear your stance on that, because that would mean the 2001 finals should be disregarded, because PHI had no chance against that LA team.

[SouBeachTalents]

Kobe at the tail end of his prime - 2/3 in the Finals


Lebron entering his prime - 2/5 in the Finals

Making those two extra Finals sure looks bad. Losing in the 1st round twice like Kobe did would have been better though right TMdumbaZ

[Young X]

because a team wasnt a serious threat to said team, it doesnt count? Curious to hear your stance on that, because that would mean the 2001 finals should be disregarded, because PHI had no chance against that LA team.Never said it doesn't count.

But don't act like the Lakers actually had a difficult road to the finals in those years when they didn't.

Did they face good competition? Yes.

Were any of their opponents threatening? Not really.

The '02 Lakers had a tough road to the finals for example. They had to go out there and win 2 series against teams that could realistically send them home. One of them without homecourt.

[ArbitraryWater]

the west in 08 and 2010 had all 8 teams in the playoffs win 50+ games..

i'm sure that just happens ever year huh..

Again, the West from 2008-2010 is baby shit.. you had the '09 Nuggets and that was it, you wonder why no one falls for the 50 win shit? Look at the teams

[TheMarkMadsen]

Never said it doesn't count.

But don't act like the Lakers actually had a difficult road to the finals in those years when they didn't.

Did they face good competition? Yes.

Were any of their opponents threatening? Not really.

The '02 Lakers had a tough road to the finals for example. They had to go out there and win 2 series against teams that could realistically send them home. One of them without homecourt.

sounds like if they didn't play a game 7 then the other team wasn't a threat :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I guess the 09 Rockets weren't threatening.. a series where the Rockets stole home court

and the 2010 suns, a team with the best offensive in the league where 4 out of 6 games were decided by single digits weren't a threat to the lakers..

[aj1987]

Paul Gasol
Lamar Odom
Trevor Ariza
Derek Fisher
Andrew Bynum (put up 6 & 4 during the playoffs)
Luke Walton

these were the 6 players with the most playing time in the playoffs in 09 minus Kobe

ultrastacked doe :oldlol: :oldlol:

this is the same type of idiot who will turn around and claim the HEAT were never stacked
I always said that I wanted the Heat to be more stacked. Unlike you, I'm a team fan.

However, like for everything, context needs to be applied. Wade was a beast in the '13 RS and was hobbled with 3 knee bruises in the PO's. Bosh was out for a significant amount of time and Wade required knee surgery after the '12 PO's. I do admit I trashed Bosh a couple of time, but that was because of his play in the '13 and '14 PO's.

Coming back to the Lakers, they had a 20/10 player in Gasol and a 11/10 player in Odom. Not to mention Bynum. Elite defenders in Ariza and Artest (who made an All-Def team in '09 and was 5th and 6th in DPOY voting in '09 and '10) Yeah, that team was stacked.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Coming back to the Lakers, they had a 20/10 player in Gasol and a 11/10 player in Odom. Not to mention Bynum. Elite defenders in Ariza and Artest (who made an All-Def team in '09 and was 5th and 6th in DPOY voting in '09 and '10) Yeah, that team was stacked.


Ariza and Artest played on the team in different years and Ariza is an elite defender since when.. and how many of those "elite defenders" were making an all defensive team during their time with the Lakers..

Bynum wasn't shit for either playoff run, stop being an idiot

Odom putting up 11/9 as the 3rd option makes them stacked..? :oldlol:

Artest putting up up 10ppg on 39% in the playoffs while not even being an all defensive player makes them stacked..? :oldlol:

you are calling a team that had Vlad Ramonovic starting every game of the finals stacked.. a team that had Luke Walkton and Sasha Vucevic as their 6th and 7th men stacked.. lmao you are a joke

[Young X]

sounds like if they didn't play a game 7 then the other team wasn't a threat :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I guess the 09 Rockets weren't threatening.. a series where the Rockets stole home court

and the 2010 suns, a team with the best offensive in the league where 4 out of 6 games were decided by single digits weren't a threat to the lakers..NEITHER one of those teams were on the Lakers level and you know that.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Again, the West from 2008-2010 is baby shit.. you had the '09 Nuggets and that was it, you wonder why no one falls for the 50 win shit? Look at the teams



just stop watching basketball already you fuccing moron

[Magic 32]

Again, the West from 2008-2010 is baby shit.. you had the '09 Nuggets and that was it, you wonder why no one falls for the 50 win shit? Look at the teams

Let's look at the east...


http://i.imgur.com/xLF8UHo.gif
http://i.imgur.com/xLF8UHo.gif
http://i.imgur.com/xLF8UHo.gif
http://i.imgur.com/xLF8UHo.gif
http://i.imgur.com/xLF8UHo.gif

Now let's merge the two conferences. Lebron fans would love that I'm sure.

[TheMarkMadsen]

NEITHER one of those teams were on the Lakers level and you know that.

what the hell are you even juding this off of, both of those teams gave the lakers an extremely close series

[ShawkFactory]

Let's look at the east...


http://i.imgur.com/xLF8UHo.gif
http://i.imgur.com/xLF8UHo.gif
http://i.imgur.com/xLF8UHo.gif
http://i.imgur.com/xLF8UHo.gif
http://i.imgur.com/xLF8UHo.gif

Now let's merge the two conferences. Lebron fans would love that I'm sure.
The gap between the east and west was not nearly as significant in 09/10 as it is now. In fact, there was NO gap in 2009.

[Levity]

The gap between the east and west was not nearly as significant in 09/10 as it is now. In fact, there was NO gap in 2009.

this. except for the fact that the 8th seed utah jazz would have HCA in the east in 09. but besides that, there was no gap

[ClipperRevival]

Ariza and Artest played on the team in different years and Ariza is an elite defender since when.. and how many of those "elite defenders" were making an all defensive team during their time with the Lakers..

Bynum wasn't shit for either playoff run, stop being an idiot

Odom putting up 11/9 as the 3rd option makes them stacked..? :oldlol:

Artest putting up up 10ppg on 39% in the playoffs while not even being an all defensive player makes them stacked..? :oldlol:

you are calling a team that had Vlad Ramonovic starting every game of the finals stacked.. a team that had Luke Walkton and Sasha Vucevic as their 6th and 7th men stacked.. lmao you are a joke

You are not a Laker fan based on this post but a Kobe fan. Do us real Laker fans a favor. Don't let the door hit you on the way out when Kobe retires. No real Laker fan would ever bash Odom and Ariza and would recognize how valuable they were during that time.

[aj1987]

Ariza and Artest played on the team in different years and Ariza is an elite defender since when.. and how many of those "elite defenders" were making an all defensive team during their time with the Lakers..

Bynum wasn't shit for either playoff run, stop being an idiot

Odom putting up 11/9 as the 3rd option makes them stacked..? :oldlol:

Artest putting up up 10ppg on 39% in the playoffs while not even being an all defensive player makes them stacked..? :oldlol:

you are calling a team that had Vlad Ramonovic starting every game of the finals stacked.. a team that had Luke Walkton and Sasha Vucevic as their 6th and 7th men stacked.. lmao you are a joke
According to your logic, the Heat weren't stacked either. Shitmers was the starting PG. Spobot was the coach. UD/Birdman/Allen (all of whom were washed up). Bosh made Hibbert look like prime Shaq in the PO's. Etc..

Still, the Heat was a pretty good team and I would call it stacked. So are the '09 and '10 Lakers.

[Young X]

what the hell are you even juding this off of, both of those teams gave the lakers an extremely close seriesDo you consider the '12 Heat's road to the finals to be tough?

[ShawkFactory]

this. except for the fact that the 8th seed utah jazz would have HCA in the east in 09. but besides that, there was no gap
There were also 3 or 4 absolutely dreadful teams in the west. Skewed the records a bit. The averages were about the same.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Do you consider the '12 Heat's road to the finals to be tough?

facing a team in the ECF without your 3rd best player through most of the series certainely made it tough for that series, I don't know 2012 is really hard to judge with it being a lockout year.. teams like the Pacers IMO would have benefited from the extra 16 games together as they were such a young team..

the HEAT's 2011 run to the finals was a tough run, no doubt about that.. and they beat every team they faced in 5 games.. :confusedshrug: :confusedshrug:

[ArbitraryWater]

facing a team in the ECF without your 3rd best player through most of the series certainely made it tough for that series, I don't know 2012 is really hard to judge with it being a lockout year.. teams like the Pacers IMO would have benefited from the extra 16 games together as they were such a young team..

the HEAT's 2011 run to the finals was a tough run, no doubt about that.. and they beat every team they faced in 5 games.. :confusedshrug: :confusedshrug: they face b2b 50+ in teams..

The 2012 Pacers had the #5 best record in 2012, got better in 2013 and only won 50 games :oldlol:

2009-2012 East :bowdown:

2008-2010 West :facepalm

[ArbitraryWater]

The gap between the east and west was not nearly as significant in 09/10 as it is now. In fact, there was NO gap in 2009.

yes there was.. the East had 3 elite/title contenders from 2008-2010, thats a warzone at the top, the West might have on average a tougher first round, but if we talking top tier teams, they had the Lakers, and no one else besides the 2009 Nuggets.. East was a whole different ball game, better top teams, more physical..

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

this. except for the fact that the 8th seed utah jazz would have HCA in the east in 09. but besides that, there was no gap

At first I was like... :biggums:

But then I was like... :lebronamazed:

:cheers:

[TheMarkMadsen]

The 2012 Pacers had the #5 best record in 2012, got better in 2013 and only won 50 games :oldlol:


ok..:confusedshrug: :confusedshrug:

[ArbitraryWater]

ok..:confusedshrug: :confusedshrug:

translation: love you bro, and check out this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdvqTNSU-Gg gawd

[West-Side]

Now how many of those teams were serious threats to the Lakers?

Well, they weren't because of Kobe Bryant.
Why don't you morons go back and actually watch all 9 of those western conference series. Kobe lit every team up. It was disgusting.

Pau Gasol played on good Memphis teams for quite a few years yet was never able to win a single playoff series. Lamar Odom? He was inconsistent as hell.

Fisher? No different than Chalmers with experience, probably even worse actually.
Sasha? Don't make me laugh.
Walton? LoL.
Ariza? A solid role player.
Bynum? Who was injured 90% of the time.

Seriously why don't people actually buy a clue.
LeBron with Ray Allen, Wade, Bosh, Chalmers etc etc. had WAY more help than Kobe yet I love how all the sudden people act like Odom & Gasol were like Pippen & Rodman. :facepalm

Gasol, Odom, Ariza, Walton, Fisher, Farmar, Sasha is not a stacked team. Again, what have any of them really done without Kobe? Beside leave the league or become irrelevent?

To no one's surprise Pau couldn't even win a single playoff game when Kobe went down in 2013. Got his ass swept by SA despite having Dwight on the team.

Yeah, Kobe's team was so stacked. :rolleyes:

[West-Side]

According to your logic, the Heat weren't stacked either. Shitmers was the starting PG. Spobot was the coach. UD/Birdman/Allen (all of whom were washed up). Bosh made Hibbert look like prime Shaq in the PO's. Etc..

Still, the Heat was a pretty good team and I would call it stacked. So are the '09 and '10 Lakers.


:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[aj1987]

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
You can laugh all you want, Kobe turd, but those are FACTS.

[West-Side]

I always said that I wanted the Heat to be more stacked. Unlike you, I'm a team fan.

However, like for everything, context needs to be applied. Wade was a beast in the '13 RS and was hobbled with 3 knee bruises in the PO's. Bosh was out for a significant amount of time and Wade required knee surgery after the '12 PO's. I do admit I trashed Bosh a couple of time, but that was because of his play in the '13 and '14 PO's.

Coming back to the Lakers, they had a 20/10 player in Gasol and a 11/10 player in Odom. Not to mention Bynum. Elite defenders in Ariza and Artest (who made an All-Def team in '09 and was 5th and 6th in DPOY voting in '09 and '10) Yeah, that team was stacked.

After 2010, how many of those players even got more than 10 minutes on any other team?? :oldlol:

Vlad, Walton, Farmar, Sasha, Ariza, World Peace, Odom.
Bynum was injured for both championship runs (including 2008).
World Peace shot like 38%, was a useless chucker most games.
Vlad, Walton, Farmar, Sasha are either out of the league or get no more than 2 minutes a game.
Chris Mihm? :oldlol:

So basically you're calling LA stacked because they had Odom, Gasol and Ariza. :facepalm

Maybe just maybe, it was Kobe being the glue that made that team look so good because buddy none of those players have achieved jack shit without Kobe Bryant.

Has Gasol even won a single playoff game in his CAREER without Kobe? We all know he won 2 titles with the man. :sleeping

[West-Side]

The gap between the east and west was not nearly as significant in 09/10 as it is now. In fact, there was NO gap in 2009.

:roll: Grabs a popcorn, there are idiots every where.

[aj1987]

After 2010, how many of those players even got more than 10 minutes on any other team?? :oldlol:

Vlad, Walton, Farmar, Sasha, Ariza, World Peace, Odom.
Bynum was injured for both championship runs (including 2008).
World Peace shot like 38%, was a useless chucker most games.
Vlad, Walton, Farmar, Sasha are either out of the league or get no more than 2 minutes a game.
Chris Mihm? :oldlol:

So basically you're calling LA stacked because they had Odom, Gasol and Ariza. :facepalm

Maybe just maybe, it was Kobe being the glue that made that team look so good because buddy none of those players have achieved jack shit without Kobe Bryant.

Has Gasol even won a single playoff game in his CAREER without Kobe? We all know he won 2 titles with the man. :sleeping
Who gives a shit what they did later? They was important pieces. The lakers had the best frontline in the league and were #1 and #2 in rebounding. They also had multiple good-elite defenders. Spot up shooters, etc..

Fun fact: Kobe's FG% and 3pt% were below the team average both seasons.


:roll: Grabs a popcorn, there are idiots every where.
http://i.imgur.com/ya32pJg.png

[West-Side]

So because LA had a good front court that makes them stacked?
Lamar was one of the better rebounders in the league; together with Pau, they definitely had a solid advantage on the glass over most teams.

But in terms of pure talent, LA was hardly "stacked". To me they aren't in the top tier of past champions. They might not even be in the middle; they really aren't that much better than 2012 Dallas or 2015 Golden State, if at all.

LeBron & Wade knew that from a talent point of view; they were STACKED. That's why they were so outlandish with their predictions during the introduction. No one automatically predicted that LA was going to win a championship when they acquired Pau. They knew LA would become a contender but Kobe's play and the way Pau & Lamar complimented him was perfect. Instead of appreciating the cohesion those Lakers team had and how great Kobe was as their leader; people would rather focus on how "Kobe had all this amazing help" to try and degrade his accomplishments.

It's the same tired ass story on this forum.

As far as 2009 season goes.

153 - 87 (West playoff teams Vs. East)
147 - 93 (East playoff teams Vs. West)

However, in the east the 4th-8th seed record Vs West was 78-72.
West 4th-8th seed record Vs. East was 95-55.

The only reason 2009 looked like it had some sort of parity was because of the three top teams in the east having such a good record against the West.

Cleveland - 26-4
Boston - 21-9
Orlando - 22-8

So yeah I'd say that year LeBron actually would have had a difficult time.
But the irony of this debate simply fascinates me.

This was also the year that Boston got untimely injuries and ultimately failed to make the NBA finals because of them (they recovered in 2010 and lost to LA in 7 games). However, LeBron wasn't able to beat Orlando; the ONLY other threat out east.

Funny how it works eh?

Last, if you're going to debate me and tell me there was complete parity in 2009, at least use your brain. Wouldn't it make far more sense to look at the strength of the playoff teams?? Not the entire league.

As I've already explained; the top 3 teams in the east made it seem like there was parity in 2009 but when you focus on the remaining playoff teams; you can see a huge difference in the 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th and 8th seeds in each respective conference.

Class dismissed.

[RRR3]

I bet LeBron and Kobe on the same team would have been fun.

[aj1987]

As I've already explained; the top 3 teams in the east made it seem like there was parity in 2009 but when you focus on the remaining playoff teams; you can see a huge difference in the 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th and 8th seeds in each respective conference.

Class dismissed.
Portland - 22-8
Lakers - 21-9
Dallas - 21-9

[West-Side]

Portland - 22-8
Lakers - 21-9
Dallas - 21-9

Yes and I already showed you the big discrepancy in wins between the 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th & 8th seeds in each respective conference.

78-72 Vs. 95-55. :rolleyes:

I will say that (in my opinion) Cleveland, Orlando & Boston were better than the West's top 3 seeds, overall. Which creates parity when comparing the two conferences that year.

However, the lower seeds out west were clearly stronger than the lower seeds out east. Plus factor in that Boston were injured late in the year and for the playoffs and it makes the east look even worse in comparison to the west.

[Rocketswin2013]

This is what comparing players is on this forum. Literally comparing teams. Unbelievable. You ring-counting, ESPN-brainwashed buffoons.

[Mr Feeny]

yes there was.. the East had 3 elite/title contenders from 2008-2010, thats a warzone at the top, the West might have on average a tougher first round, but if we talking top tier teams, they had the Lakers, and no one else besides the 2009 Nuggets.. East was a whole different ball game, better top teams, more physical..This is pretty much right.

[ArbitraryWater]

yes there was.. the East had 3 elite/title contenders from 2008-2010, thats a warzone at the top, the West might have on average a tougher first round, but if we talking top tier teams, they had the Lakers, and no one else besides the 2009 Nuggets.. East was a whole different ball game, better top teams, more physical..

That East truly was amazing.. West caught up since then, 2008-2010 West are truly the confernece' dark days, worst time since the 80's.

[aj1987]

Yes and I already showed you the big discrepancy in wins between the 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th & 8th seeds in each respective conference.

78-72 Vs. 95-55. :rolleyes:

I will say that (in my opinion) Cleveland, Orlando & Boston were better than the West's top 3 seeds, overall. Which creates parity when comparing the two conferences that year.

However, the lower seeds out west were clearly stronger than the lower seeds out east. Plus factor in that Boston were injured late in the year and for the playoffs and it makes the east look even worse in comparison to the west.
That's kinda not fair since Dallas was the 6th seed and won 21 games against the EC teams and the 10th seeded Bobcats won 3 games more than the 8th seeded Pistons (89-61 vs 80-70). You either use the entire PO teams or stop cherry picking teams to fit your agenda. And even if you choose to ignore all that. The WC teams won 10% more games against their EC competition, which translates to 15 games over 150 total games. :oldlol:

[riseagainst]

That East truly was amazing.. West caught up since then, 2008-2010 West are truly the confernece' dark days, worst time since the 80's.


:biggums:

:roll:
:roll:

[West-Side]

That's kinda not fair since Dallas was the 6th seed and won 21 games against the EC teams and the 10th seeded Bobcats won 3 games more than the 8th seeded Pistons (89-61 vs 80-70). You either use the entire PO teams or stop cherry picking teams to fit your agenda. And even if you choose to ignore all that. The WC teams won 10% more games against their EC competition, which translates to 15 games over 150 total games. :oldlol:

The top 3 eastern conference teams did much better overall than the top 3 western conference teams during the regular season against each conference, however, Boston got hurt before the playoffs started.

The Lakers beat a team (Orlando) in five games that year that Cleveland could not beat. Should that not suggest how much better the west was?

I mean both Cleveland and Orlando were like 40-8 against the EC that year, yet LA disposed of them rather easily. Orlando beat Cleveland.

I'm sorry, LA faced tougher opponents on their way to the finals than the Orlando Magic.

I remember those playoffs vividly; no way in hell was the east tougher than the west. Especially considering Boston being hurt.

[aj1987]

The Lakers beat a team (Orlando) in five games that year that Cleveland could not beat. Should that not suggest how much better the west was?
LeBron was carrying trash in the RS. Did you even watch the series? His teammates were HORRENDOUS in that series. LeBron put up 39/8/8 on 60% TS and they still lost. Delonte and Mo sucked ass. Cleveland's frontline couldn't handle Dwight (the same Dwight who got shutdown by the Lakers' FC). You still don't think that Kobe had VERY good teams when he won?


I'm sorry, LA faced tougher opponents on their way to the finals than the Orlando Magic.
Deron led Jazz, T-Mac & Yao Ming less Rockets, and the Melo & JR Nuggets. Tough competition indeed. :rolleyes:


I remember those playoffs vividly; no way in hell was the east tougher than the west. Especially considering Boston being hurt.
I never said it was. :confusedshrug:

[Mr Feeny]

That East truly was amazing.. West caught up since then, 2008-2010 West are truly the confernece' dark days, worst time since the 80's.

I agree. The big dogs were killing each other in the ECF while the Western conference champs got in fresh and without a scratch. Incredible that Lebron managed to take the 2008 Celtics to a game 7 nail biter with a bunch of a scrubs. 45 in the decisive 7th game too. Clutch as one can be by the greatest game 7 player of all time :rockon: