Players who averaged 30+ PPG on 60%+ TS?

[BlakFrankWhite]

This IMO...is the hallmark of effecient scoring.

Does anyone have a list of players who've achieved this feat.

As far as I know only Kevin Durant in 2013-14 has averaged 32 PPG on 63% TS :bowdown: :bowdown:

He got real close in 2012-13...averaging 28 ppg on 64% TS.

[LAZERUSS]

This IMO...is the hallmark of effecient scoring.

Does anyone have a list of players who've achieved this feat.

As far as I know only Kevin Durant in 2013-14 has averaged 32 PPG on 63% TS :bowdown: :bowdown:

He got real close in 2012-13...averaging 28 ppg on 64% TS.

Dantley from 81-84...

.622, .631, .661, and .652.

He also had a season of 29.8 ppg on a .629.

[SouBeachTalents]

Dantley did it 4 times

[RRR3]

Thread backfire

[TheMarkMadsen]

according to op Dantley must be the GOAT scorer

[TripleA]

according to op Dantley must be the GOAT scorer

Dantley was amazing at scoring but he was devoid of other things that made a all-time great like leadership,passing,defense and winning.

[Rocketswin2013]

Dantley didn't do it in the postseason...that's pretty much all that needs to be said. Durant is impressive. Top 5 all-time scorer IMO.

[Fire Colangelo]

Jordan?

Lebron was at 29.7 in 2010 I believe.

[Round Mound]

Charles On 25 PPG Did It Many Times...And Yes Adrian Dantley Is The GOAT Scoring SF

[plowking]

Charles On 25 PPG Did It Many Times...And Yes Adrian Dantley Is The GOAT Scoring SF

No he isn't. Durant is.

[BlakFrankWhite]

No he isn't. Durant is.

Ignore that dude...he's a weirdo.

Even during the finals...when we were all posting in the OGT....he's posting some Barkely highlights from the 80s

[Round Mound]

Charles Barkley and Adrian Dantley Had Some Similarities. They Where Both The Best Scoring Forwards In Between Paint and Mid Range The Game Has Ever Seen.

[Marchesk]

Ignore that dude...he's a weirdo.

Even during the finals...when we were all posting in the OGT....he's posting some Barkely highlights from the 80s

By your own criteria, Dantley is the GOAT scorer, or at least for SF.

Are you changing your criteria now that you found out someone other than Durant is at the top?

[BlakFrankWhite]

By your own criteria, Dantley is the GOAT scorer, or at least for SF.

Are you changing your criteria now that you found out someone other than Durant is at the top?

What kind of a Thunder fan are you?, FFS

[Marchesk]

What kind of a Thunder fan are you?, FFS

How did you know that?

I would take Durant as a player over Dantley of course. But just going by the OP, Dantley has Durant, at least for now. I hope Durant can come back and have more 2014 seasons.

[raprap]

Charles On 25 PPG Did It Many Times...And Yes Adrian Dantley Is The GOAT Scoring SF
:biggums:

[ClipperRevival]

MJ did it 4 straight years from 1988 -1991.

[ekosky]

Kevin Durant is the GOAT scorer. It's not even a discussion.

[G-train]

No he isn't. Durant is.

Durant hasn't surpassed Nique yet.

[Young X]

Bird was 0.1 point from doing it in 1988.

[G-train]

Ignore that dude...he's a weirdo.

Even during the finals...when we were all posting in the OGT....he's posting some Barkely highlights from the 80s

maybe stick it out in forum for at least 6 months before dissing long time valuable posters

[Marchesk]

Kevin Durant is the GOAT scorer. It's not even a discussion.

Come on brah. It's one thing to argue Durant vs Dantley. It's another thing to say Durant > MJ, Wilt, Kareem, Kobe, West.

[ekosky]

GOAT scorer, Kevin Durant is.

[Fire Colangelo]

Come on brah. It's one thing to argue Durant vs Dantley. It's another thing to say Durant > MJ, Wilt, Kareem, Kobe, West.

Durant > Kobe and West, that's for sure.

[plowking]

Durant hasn't surpassed Nique yet.

At what? Because at basketball he is better at everything but dunking compared to Nique.

[Paul George 24]

What kind of a Thunder fan are you?, FFS
NO MATTER,HE WILL NEVER WIN A CHAMPION & FMVP :lol

[Marchesk]

NO MATTER,HE WILL NEVER WIN A CHAMPION & FMVP :lol

2016 Thunder championship cruise

Not too late to jump on the bandwagon.

[G-train]

At what? Because at basketball he is better at everything but dunking compared to Nique.

At the 'context of the discussion', which is greatest scoring small forward ever.
He hasn't got the resume yet, needs more longevity.

[plowking]

At the 'context of the discussion', which is greatest scoring small forward ever.
He hasn't got the resume yet, needs more longevity.

No he doesn't.

If you watch both, it is just apparent that one is better than the other at scoring. If you put both in a game and said score the most amount of points in a game you can, Durant would win 80% of the time.

5 times Durant has scored the most points in the league. Nique never did.
4 times Durant has been scoring champ, Nique once.
5 times Durant has shot at a clip above 60% TS. Nique, never.
29ppg in the playoffs for Durant, 25ppg for Nique. Durant has more games played too.

He is flat out, far and away a better scorer.

You have 15,000 points to choose from in Durant's career. How much more longevity do you need? He isn't a flash in the pan. He is one of the best players ever.

[ekosky]

At the 'context of the discussion', which is greatest scoring small forward ever.
He hasn't got the resume yet, needs more longevity.
Dominique's 12 seasons for Atlanta (not even gonna include his twilight years)
26.4 ppg - 46.7% FG, 31.5% 3PT, 81% FT
1 scoring title

Durant's 8 seasons for SEA/OKC
27.3 ppg - 48.1% FG, 38% 3PT, 88% FT
4 scoring titles


Scoring more, scoring more efficiently, and accomplished much more as a scorer, in 4 less seasons.

Negro, please.

[Sarcastic]

Meet your GOAT scorer ladies and gentlemen

http://www.rantsports.com/nba/files/2014/04/3.-Adrian-Dantley-Copy.jpg

:bowdown: :bowdown:

[G-train]

Yeah given the easy dismissal of Wilkins scoring ability, it's completely apparent that neither of you really saw him play, therefore have no grasp of the debate.
Probably the dumbest point of your argument that I wont continue due to the lack of knowledge that is OBVIOUS: scoring titles.
Call me when Durant is against the greatest scorer ever in his prime vying for them. How could you not see that or factor it in? smh


If you watch both, it is just apparent that one is better than the other at scoring. If you put both in a game and said score the most amount of points in a game you can, Durant would win 80% of the time.

Could you attempt to pull anything further out your ass?

Look if Durant can do it for 4-5 more seasons, sure I'd say so due to his superior outside shooting ability.

An 8 year career, is not enough for me have him surpass the best scoring small forward ever. Especially in an era designed for perimeter scorers to cruise around to 25 points.

[ekosky]

Kevin Durant - the greatest scorer to ever touch a basketball.

Wow. And he's only 26.

[inclinerator]

lebron james

[G-train]

This IMO...is the hallmark of effecient scoring.

Does anyone have a list of players who've achieved this feat.

As far as I know only Kevin Durant in 2013-14 has averaged 32 PPG on 63% TS :bowdown: :bowdown:

He got real close in 2012-13...averaging 28 ppg on 64% TS.

I'd still take Shaq over anyone you can produce with your numbers, barring Jordan.

[bobopenguin]

Dantley was amazing at scoring but he was devoid of other things that made a all-time great like leadership,passing,defense and winning.

u see what u are doing now? u are derailing the original conversation and start adding criteria on top of another.

so what's next? adding stuff like team achievement, team mates, coaches, eras, personal record just for the sake of not let ur star losing in the particular argument?

ultimately, the true GOAT is gonna be:
- win champion as man of the team,
- surrounded by bunch of d-leaguer
- avg triple double with max per and has defender/scorer/mvp/fmvp of the year in the pocket.
- never chuck not selfish, clutch as hell in crunch time, alpha as fk when team below 20pt and come back.
- hit 180% club
- can post, shoot, dribble, pass, steal, block, rebound, score in/out
- all over above and 3 peats with same condition.
-never demand trade, play around by whatever was given, has sh*t coach from egypt, play with broken limb all the way.

now u go find me one that's close to that.

[plowking]

Yeah given the easy dismissal of Wilkins scoring ability, it's completely apparent that neither of you really saw him play, therefore have no grasp of the debate.
Probably the dumbest point of your argument that I wont continue due to the lack of knowledge that is OBVIOUS: scoring titles.
Call me when Durant is against the greatest scorer ever in his prime vying for them. How could you not see that or factor it in? smh



Could you attempt to pull anything further out your ass?

Look if Durant can do it for 4-5 more seasons, sure I'd say so due to his superior outside shooting ability.

An 8 year career, is not enough for me have him surpass the best scoring small forward ever. Especially in an era designed for perimeter scorers to cruise around to 25 points.

Terrible argument. You had several guys getting 25ppg easy in the 80's and early 90's just being on the right teams. The game is too slow and too organized now for average scorers to be getting 25ppg like it was before. I mean you had guys like Dale Ellis go from 8ppg to 25ppg lol...

It was easier to score in the 80's and 90's and yet Durant still scores more on better efficiency. End of story. 8 seasons isn't enough... lol. He could never play again, and it wouldn't tarnish anything. We saw what he could do.

[LoneyROY7]

Durant is a truly transcendental player.

[Fire Colangelo]

Yeah given the easy dismissal of Wilkins scoring ability, it's completely apparent that neither of you really saw him play, therefore have no grasp of the debate.
Probably the dumbest point of your argument that I wont continue due to the lack of knowledge that is OBVIOUS: scoring titles.
Call me when Durant is against the greatest scorer ever in his prime vying for them. How could you not see that or factor it in? smh



Could you attempt to pull anything further out your ass?

Look if Durant can do it for 4-5 more seasons, sure I'd say so due to his superior outside shooting ability.

An 8 year career, is not enough for me have him surpass the best scoring small forward ever. Especially in an era designed for perimeter scorers to cruise around to 25 points.

I have to disagree with most of this post. Nique simply holds no candle to Durant as a scorer, or as a player in general.

Durant, in only 8 years already he a better resume than Nique. 1 more MVP, 4 more all NBA 1st team selections, and has already led his team to more success than Nique ever did.

The fact is, Durant put up more points on better efficiency while playing in a slower paced league. I can only assume an inflation in Durant's scoring numbers had he played in the 80s/90s and probably would've taken a few of Jordan's scoring titles. Nique was only able to steal a title due to Jordan's injury in 86.

Nique and Durant are simply on different tiers....

[Marchesk]

Durant is a truly transcendental player.

He's metaphysical at this point.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

I have to disagree with most of this post. Nique simply holds no candle to Durant as a scorer, or as a player in general.

Durant, in only 8 years already he a better resume than Nique. 1 more MVP, 4 more all NBA 1st team selections, and has already led his team to more success than Nique ever did.

The fact is, Durant put up more points on better efficiency while playing in a slower paced league. I can only assume an inflation in Durant's scoring numbers had he played in the 80s/90s and probably would've taken a few of Jordan's scoring titles. Nique was only able to steal a title due to Jordan's injury in 86.

Nique and Durant are simply on different tiers....

Not sure why idiots are throwing around the word "pace" when teams in the 90s essentially played at the same pace the league does today. :oldlol:

Durant is a better player than Nique, but its funny seeing people talk hoops that literally don't have a clue what they're saying.

[Fire Colangelo]

Not sure why idiots are throwing around the word "pace" when teams in the 90s essentially played at the same pace the league does today. :oldlol:

Durant is a better player than Nique, but its funny seeing people talk hoops that literally don't have a clue what they're saying.

:oldlol: :oldlol:

Not sure why idiots don't realize Nique played a huge chunk of his career in the 80s, where the average points scored per game was around 10% higher than today's game.

But yeah, you're right. It is pretty funny seeing people talk hoops that literally don't have a clue what they're saying.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

:oldlol: :oldlol:

Not sure why idiots don't realize Nique played a huge chunk of his career in the 80s, where the average points scored per game was around 10% higher than today's game.

But yeah, you're right. It is pretty funny seeing people talk hoops that literally don't have a clue what they're saying.

:kobe:

Nique had some of his BEST scoring years during the 90's. On average, about the same "pace" ran today.

[BlakFrankWhite]

Kevin Durant - the greatest scorer to ever touch a basketball.

Wow. And he's only 26.

This.

his absence has made him so underrated...hope he comes back and shut the haters up

[Fire Colangelo]

:kobe:

Nique had some of his BEST scoring years during the 90's. On average, about the same "pace" ran today.

Best scoring years.... as in the years he missed the playoffs? Then absolutely...

He had his best seasons in 86-89, and 94.

So no... his best seasons were during the 80s.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Terrible argument. You had several guys getting 25ppg easy in the 80's and early 90's just being on the right teams. The game is too slow and too organized now for average scorers to be getting 25ppg like it was before. I mean you had guys like Dale Ellis go from 8ppg to 25ppg lol...

It was easier to score in the 80's and 90's and yet Durant still scores more on better efficiency. End of story. 8 seasons isn't enough... lol. He could never play again, and it wouldn't tarnish anything. We saw what he could do.

Your argument is also terrible, so...

Easier to score? That's about as subjective as it gets, especially since DRtg and eFG% are about the same.
Plus, can't deny that today's league is softer, and you also had better ball-movement on average in the 80's (see what the Spurs did right now with it, for example), with teams going for the best available shot as soon as it was there.

Pace talk doesn't apply much at all here... Difference of less than 10%, as minimal as it gets especially for star players, not really that considerable at all when looking at the whole picture.
Also, since y'all love that whole talk, explain to me why as pace decreased throughout the 1970's into the 1980's, FG% and PPG went up while DRtg got worse... Where's the correlation? Was it better offense or worse defense? :confusedshrug: Like I've said, gets pretty subjective and it's no "exact science".

Laughing at Dale Ellis or something?
How about mentioning he was averaging those 7 PPG in only 15 minutes per game, playing for a stacked Mavs team that had no place for him, coached by Dick Motta who didn't know how to utilize him... That's why when Dale went buckwild on Dallas in the '87 WC 1st round, people were calling it revenge and such...
Ellis had one of the greatest, quickest pullups ever, elite shooter from anywhere (except at the FT line), dude was a beast on that catch-n-shoot (especially coming up from the baseline), great without the ball, stood at a legit 6'7, pretty athletic, could kill you in the post, even scored plenty off of putbacks.
Dude was something like Klay Thompson on steroids, he would tear today's league apart, call it being in the "right" league :lol
Let's take him for a joke though :rolleyes:

[BlakFrankWhite]

Well....KD also achieved this in 2010 as well

30.1 PPG on 60.7% TS..

So he's achieved it twice....truly the best :bowdown: :bowdown:

[ArbitraryWater]

This.

his absence has made him so underrated...hope he comes back and shut the haters up

Its made him overrated, you just said he was the greatest scorer ever :oldlol:

[BlakFrankWhite]

Well....KD also achieved this in 2010 as well

30.1 PPG on 60.7% TS..

So he's achieved it twice....truly the best :bowdown: :bowdown:

And he was only 21 then.

:biggums: :biggums:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Best scoring years.... as in the years he missed the playoffs? Then absolutely...

He had his best seasons in 86-89, and 94.

So no... his best seasons were during the 80s.

Did the pronoun "some" escape your brain the SAME way basketball knowledge has?

Best season in '94? What? :oldlol: His best seasons during the 90s era were from '90-93 (1992 was his best year before the torn ACL). Not only that, but the Hawks made it to playoffs in '91 and '93.

[BlakFrankWhite]

Its made him overrated, you just said he was the greatest scorer ever :oldlol:

I'm a Thunder fan...its kinda obvious I might overrate him.

I'm talkin about the crap some gsw or reockets fans say like Curry is better Durant or Rockets fans saying Harden is better than Durant

[Gileraracer]

MJ in 87/88
35.0ppg
.603 TS%

:bowdown:

[tpols]

Dantley was amazing at scoring but he was devoid of other things that made a all-time great like leadership,passing,defense and winning.

hmm.. that sorta sounds like durant

[ImKobe]

Best scoring years.... as in the years he missed the playoffs? Then absolutely...

He had his best seasons in 86-89, and 94.

So no... his best seasons were during the 80s.

Nique tore his achilles and came back averaging 29.9 ppg on 47/38/83 shooting at age 33 in the 92-93 season. Same injury that ended Zeke's career, same injury that destroyed whatever was left of Kobe's hops and durability in 2013...

they also made the Playoffs, but what are you gonna do when you're going up against peak MJ and Pippen in the first round

KD is a better shooter and a pure scorer but Nique to me was a much better finisher in the paint. The two are not that much far off to me, but KD's physical tools make it much easier for him to get his shots off.

[GimmeThat]

If you were to include some arbitrary stats like total usage rate, he probably really stands out.

Without ever gotten to watch Dantley play, I can only say that Durants game, similar and different than Curry, is often going 2 vs 3.

[ekosky]

Kevin Durant - The greatest scorer in NBA history and he's only 26.

Oh my.

[RRR3]

Kevin Durant - The greatest scorer in NBA history and he's only 26.

Oh my.
Kobe fans peanut butter and jealous :applause:

[r0drig0lac]

hmm.. that sorta sounds like durant
word.

[Nuff Said]

Let's just stick to the criteria stated in the op to determine the greatest scorer please.

[Alamо]

KD is also part of the illustrious 50/40/90 club


Something only 5 other players in NBA history have achieved

Larry Bird
Mark Price
Reggie Miller
Steve Nash
Dirk Nowitzki

Kevin Durant :applause:

Not only that but KD is the highest scorer of them all. Very impressive

[BlakFrankWhite]

KD is also part of the illustrious 50/40/90 club


Something only 5 other players in NBA history have achieved

Larry Bird
Mark Price
Reggie Miller
Steve Nash
Dirk Nowitzki

Kevin Durant :applause:

Not only that but KD is the highest scorer of them all. Very impressive

Yup...came real close in 2014 as well....Averaged 32 ppg on 50/39/88

[Alamо]

Youngest to ever notch a 50/40/90 season too. By a decent margin

[Fire Colangelo]

Did the pronoun "some" escape your brain the SAME way basketball knowledge has?

Best season in '94? What? :oldlol: His best seasons during the 90s era were from '90-93 (1992 was his best year before the torn ACL). Not only that, but the Hawks made it to playoffs in '91 and '93.

Two first round exits in 91 and 93, those were not his best years. The Hawks were a .500 team in 92 before his injury.

Nique led the Hawks to a ridiculous record including something like 15 straight wins in 94 before he was trading for Danny Manning. Probably would've cracked 60+ wins had they not traded him. How is that not one of his best seasons?

Nique was actually pretty irrelevant in the 90s. His best season came in the 80s where he actually had a NBA 1st team selection (only one I believe) and made it out of the 1st round multiple times.

Literally his 80s seasons > 90s seasons.

Way to change the argument btw. You quoted me and tried to sound like a smart ass saying the pace in the 90s is the same as today without realizing Nique had his best years in the 80s.



Nique tore his achilles and came back averaging 29.9 ppg on 47/38/83 shooting at age 33 in the 92-93 season. Same injury that ended Zeke's career, same injury that destroyed whatever was left of Kobe's hops and durability in 2013...

they also made the Playoffs, but what are you gonna do when you're going up against peak MJ and Pippen in the first round

KD is a better shooter and a pure scorer but Nique to me was a much better finisher in the paint. The two are not that much far off to me, but KD's physical tools make it much easier for him to get his shots off.

Wtf? So he had his best season because... he was able to overcome an injury? How does his ACL injury mean anything?

They made the playoffs and got owned in the first round. Idk, maybe they could've won more games in the regular season to avoid MJ's Bulls in the playoffs?

Bolded is stupid.

[Young X]

Wilkins' best, most efficient scoring season was in '93.

The Hawks pace that year was 97.6.

The current NBA champions played at a 98.3 pace.

I don't see how his numbers are really inflated, there are teams currently playing just as fast now.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Two first round exits in 91 and 93, those were not his best years. The Hawks were a .500 team in 92 before his injury.

Aside from '88, the Hawks never made noise in the playoffs. They were perennial one and done teams, while occasionally making it to the second round.

Reading is fundamental. I clearly said those were his best years during the 90's. 94 when the Hawks just had a better team...isn't one of them. Nique was a shell of himself athletically, and was traded midway through the season.


Nique was actually pretty irrelevant in the 90s

His best seasons came in the 80s, but he was still one of the best players in the 90s, statistically, hence me pointing out why the use of pace (nearly the same as today) is irrelevant.


Wilkins' best, most efficient scoring season was in '93.

The Hawks pace that year was 97.6.

The current NBA champions played at a 98.3 pace.

I don't see how his numbers are really inflated, there are teams currently playing just as fast now.

Take notes, Colangelo.

[Fire Colangelo]

Wilkins' best, most efficient scoring season was in '93.

The Hawks pace that year was 97.6.

The current NBA champions played at a 98.3 pace.

I don't see how his numbers are really inflated, there are teams currently playing just as fast now.

...... You just compared the Hawks to a team that played at the fastest pace.

Not to mention I was mainly referring to the 80s where Nique was actually relevant.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

...... You just compared the Hawks to a team that played at the fastest pace.

Not to mention I was mainly referring to the 80s where Nique was actually relevant.

How was dude NOT relevant in the early 90s? F*cking idiot

Nobody calls Steph Curry or Klay Thompsons stats "inflated", so whatever argument you thought you had....is now extinct.

[Fire Colangelo]

Aside from '88, the Hawks never made noise in the playoffs. They were perennial one and done teams, while occasionally making it to the second round.

They made the 2nd round every year from 86-88.


Reading is fundamental. I clearly said those were his best years during the 90's. 94 when the Hawks just had a better team...isn't one of them. Nique was a shell of himself athletically, and was traded midway through the season.


It's kind of easy for any ATG to put up great stats on a shitty team with no expectations to win. Sure, statistically his 90s seasons were great, but he was pretty irrelevant. Put Durant on a shitty team with no expectations to win, you don't think puts up crazy points?



His best seasons came in the 80s, but he was still one of the best players in the 90s, statistically, hence me pointing out why the use of pace (nearly the same as today) is irrelevant.

Again, statistically. My pace point was mainly referring his 80s seasons. Like I said, any ATG can put up numbers on a bad team with no expectations.




Take notes, Colangelo.

Take notes of what? He compared to an averaged paced Hawks to the fastest paced team in the league... what does that even prove? That the fastest paced team plays at a pace slightly faster than an averaged paced team? wtf lol

[Fire Colangelo]

How was dude NOT relevant in the early 90s? F*cking idiot

Nobody calls Steph Curry or Klay Thompsons stats "inflated", so whatever argument you thought you had....is now extinct.

Dude was on a bad team putting up stats.

Great.

Any ATG could do that.

Nobody calls Steph or Klay's stats inflated because nobody is stupid enough to compare them to Kevin Durant.

[TripleA]

Kevin durant literally made it to the finals. While Dominique never won shit.
Dominique is comparable to Melo in scoring not Durant. Durant is on another level. If Dominique was a 25 inch vertical jump shooter like Melo now he would get less recognition.

[imdaman99]

Durant is really good and if he is 100% than he should reclaim his spot at the top. Hope he is fully healed and that foot doesn't nag him his entire career like it has to others. Him being skinny helps with that, hopefully :oldlol:

[Young X]

The Hawks from '86-'90 played at a average pace of 97.6. STILL lower than this years Warrior team.

And although I agree that Durant IS a better, more accomplished scorer...he didn't have to compete against prime MJ for his scoring titles. Durant wouldn't have 4 scoring titles if MJ was in the league putting up 37, 35, 33, 34, etc. every year.

[Fire Colangelo]

The Hawks from '86-'89 played at a average pace of 98.0. STILL lower than this years Warrior team.

And although I agree that Durant IS a better, more accomplished scorer...he didn't have to compete against prime MJ for his scoring titles. Durant wouldn't have 4 scoring titles if MJ was in the league putting up 37, 35, 33, 34, etc.

:oldlol:

Nobody's gonna touch 37, but you don't think Durant can steal a couple of MJ's titles when MJ scored 32, 31, 30, 28, 29?

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

They made the 2nd round every year from 86-88.

It's kind of easy for any ATG to put up great stats on a shitty team with no expectations to win. Sure, statistically his 90s seasons were great, but he was pretty irrelevant. Put Durant on a shitty team with no expectations to win, you don't think puts up crazy points?

And either missed the playoffs or were first round fodder the 3 years before that. Hell, in '89 they were knocked out of the first round too.

Guy also put up REALLY good stats in the 90's, where pace was basically the same as today. Whether or not an ATG can put up stats on bad teams isn't the point.

We could say that with a lot of ATGs anyway. I've already conceded Kevin Durant was the better player, so why are you moving goalposts?


Take notes of what? He compared to an averaged paced Hawks to the fastest paced team in the league... what does that even prove? That the fastest paced team plays at a pace slightly faster than an averaged paced team? wtf lol

Nobody deducts off of Steph Curry's average because of pace. Literally - nobody. Hell, a 5-6% difference in pace hardly even effects individual stats, as been pointed out. So what are you arguing?


Dude was on a bad team putting up stats.

Great.

Any ATG could do that.

Nobody calls Steph or Klay's stats inflated because nobody is stupid enough to compare them to Kevin Durant.

ATL made the playoffs in the 90s too, and were first round knockouts. Pretty much the same as the 80s.

lol @ playoff teams being "bad".

[SHAQisGOAT]

KD is also part of the illustrious 50/40/90 club


Something only 5 other players in NBA history have achieved

Larry Bird
Mark Price
Reggie Miller
Steve Nash
Dirk Nowitzki

Kevin Durant :applause:

Not only that but KD is the highest scorer of them all. Very impressive

Cream of the crop shooting right there :applause: Bird's the one who scored the most PPG while shooting 50/40/90 though.



And either missed the playoffs or were first round fodder the 3 years before that. Hell, in '89 they were knocked out of the first round too.

Guy also put up REALLY good stats in the 90's, where pace was basically the same as today. Whether or not an ATG can put up stats on bad teams isn't the point.

We could say that with a lot of ATGs anyway. I've already conceded Kevin Durant was the better player, so why are you moving goalposts?



Nobody deducts off of Steph Curry's average because of pace. Literally - nobody. Hell, a 5-6% difference in pace hardly even effects individual stats, as been pointed out. So what are you arguing?



ATL made the playoffs in the 90s too, and were first round knockouts. Pretty much the same as the 80s.

lol @ playoff teams being "bad".

On point...

Why is that dude hating on Nique though, going off on dumb arguments? :facepalm
While I even agree that Durant's the better player/scorer, at both their best.

[Young X]

:oldlol:

Nobody's gonna touch 37, but you don't think Durant can steal a couple of MJ's titles when MJ scored 32, 31, 30, 28, 29?Well, some of those seasons happened later on in MJ's career and we don't know how much KD will score when he's 30+. In the time frame ('86-'93) that we're talking about? I could see him getting the '86 one and probably the '92 one.

And the problem is you're looking at the total league's pace instead of the pace Wilkins' teams specifically played at. Yes, the league was clearly faster back then and yes there were run and gun teams like the Nuggets, Suns and Lakers whose numbers were inflated. This is irrelevant to Wilkins though because his Hawks teams were among the slowest in the league and generally played at the same pace that some teams do today. So his scoring really isn't inflated.

[HurricaneKid]

Well, some of those seasons happened later on in MJ's career and we don't know how much KD will score when he's 30+. In the time frame ('86-'93) that we're talking about? I could see him getting the '86 one and probably the '92 one.

And the problem is you're looking at the total league's pace instead of the pace Wilkins' teams specifically played at. Yes, the league was clearly faster back then and yes there were run and gun teams like the Nuggets, Suns and Lakers whose numbers were inflated. This is irrelevant to Wilkins though because his Hawks teams were among the slowest in the league and generally played at the same pace that some teams do today. So his scoring really isn't inflated.

Yes but people have taken shots at him because he didn't lead the league more, etc and that is really difficult to do when other teams in your era are avg 10+ more possessions. So his pace absolutely contributed to his legacy.

Which is why people need to stop quoting the per game avg and focus on the per possession avg...

[TheMarkMadsen]

Two of Durant's scoring titles are extremely overrated (11 & 12)

won them averaging 27.7 & 28..

from 2000- 2010 NINE scoring champions averaged 30+ ppg

winning the scoring title averaging 28 ppg is laughable, guys were averaging 30+ in tougher defensive eras (00-04)

the top 4 scorers in the league usally averaged 28-32 ppg, there are years where guys would average 28 or 29 and not get close to the scoring title


from 00-10 NINE scoring title winners averaged 30+..

from 11-15 only one scoring title winner averaged 30+..

[Fire Colangelo]

And either missed the playoffs or were first round fodder the 3 years before that. Hell, in '89 they were knocked out of the first round too.

He didn't really break out as a superstar until 86. Never mentioned any year other than 86-88, so I don't know why you're bringing those up.


We could say that with a lot of ATGs anyway. I've already conceded Kevin Durant was the better player, so why are you moving goalposts?

Nobody deducts off of Steph Curry's average because of pace. Literally - nobody. Hell, a 5-6% difference in pace hardly even effects individual stats, as been pointed out. So what are you arguing?


I didn't move the goalpost... I simply said Kevin Durant would've scored more in the 80s and 90s and might've been able to steal a few scoring titles.

Forget about pace for a second. Look at how many shots MJ and Nique took to get their scoring titles. Give Kevin Durant that many shots, you don't think he averages 35? Take that 5-6% difference in pace, maybe he averages 36 one season?

I think given the right circumstances, Durant could've competed with MJ for scoring titles every year.



lol @ playoff teams being "bad".

Um, first exit playoff teams are pretty bad....

Kobe's 06 team was pretty bad, was it not?

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

I don't know why you're bringing those up.

I didn't move the goalpost... I simply said Kevin Durant would've scored more in the 80s and 90s and might've been able to steal a few scoring titles.

Forget about pace for a second. Look at how many shots MJ and Nique took to get their scoring titles. Give Kevin Durant that many shots, you don't think he averages 35? Take that 5-6% difference in pace, maybe he averages 36 one season?

I think given the right circumstances, Durant could've competed with MJ for scoring titles every year.

Um, first exit playoff teams are pretty bad....

Kobe's 06 team was pretty bad, was it not?

They're examples showing that ATL was always a first-round exit basically. And again, they weren't even a playoff team in 1989.

KD would be the same player he was in the 90s. Nothing suggests he would "score more" when teams ran at practically the SAME pace. The only difference is teams could handcheck him.

That's not the way it works BTW - but yes, I do feel that Durant would have won scoring titles in that era, and probably could have challenged Jordan. He's one of the greatest scorers in history, so obviously. I do know that MJ was/is the better postseason scorer by a pretty wide margin though.

Far as those Laker teams go - they were bad. However they needed Kobe's points. For him to score the way he did, night in and out, with defenses focused on him alone...was pretty incredible.

[Sarcastic]

Pace doesn't really affect primary option scorers. They're always gonna get in the neighborhood of 20-25 shots per game, give or take. A slow pace league is not gonna drop him down to 15 shots, and a fast pace league isn't gonna boost him to 35 shots.

Pace does affect the role players, who are gonna get more attempts in a fast pace, and fewer in a slow pace game.

[plowking]

Your argument is also terrible, so...

Easier to score? That's about as subjective as it gets, especially since DRtg and eFG% are about the same.
Plus, can't deny that today's league is softer, and you also had better ball-movement on average in the 80's (see what the Spurs did right now with it, for example), with teams going for the best available shot as soon as it was there.

Pace talk doesn't apply much at all here... Difference of less than 10%, as minimal as it gets especially for star players, not really that considerable at all when looking at the whole picture.
Also, since y'all love that whole talk, explain to me why as pace decreased throughout the 1970's into the 1980's, FG% and PPG went up while DRtg got worse... Where's the correlation? Was it better offense or worse defense? :confusedshrug: Like I've said, gets pretty subjective and it's no "exact science".



No, my argument is spot on and backed up by complete fact.

Funny how you don't take the scorers of the 60's and 70's as serious as the scorers of your generation and what you grew up watching as a kid (80's and 90's).
If I bring up Baylor's scoring in 62, he scored more than Mike in his best scoring season. Baylor was just a better scorer. Was Oscar Robertson a better scorer than Durant over his first 8 seasons? Averages would suggest so, though why is it never brought up? We're disregarding pace, and like before, the scoring is a mere 10% difference.

How about just succumbing to the fact that basketball is changing? It has gotten slower, more organised, and played with more focused intent in regards to specific areas on the court. Defense has never been this good.

Durant would most definitely steal some of Jordan's scoring titles, and continually challenge him throughout his career. He is as good a scorer as anyone in history.

[plowking]

:oldlol:

Nobody's gonna touch 37, but you don't think Durant can steal a couple of MJ's titles when MJ scored 32, 31, 30, 28, 29?

Durant probably puts up more 33-35ppg seasons back in the 80's where the league was more reliant on 1 on 1 plays.

[LAZERUSS]

Pace doesn't really affect primary option scorers. They're always gonna get in the neighborhood of 20-25 shots per game, give or take. A slow pace league is not gonna drop him down to 15 shots, and a fast pace league isn't gonna boost him to 35 shots.

Pace does affect the role players, who are gonna get more attempts in a fast pace, and fewer in a slow pace game.

THIS.

In MJ's greatest scoring season, he played 40 mpg, and averaged 27.0 FGA per game, scoring 37.1 ppg, in a league that scored 109.9 ppg, and averaged 88.8 FGA per team per game.

In Kobe's greatest scoring season, he played 41 mpg, and averaged 27.2 FGA per game, and averaged 35.4 ppg, in an NBA that averaged 97.0 ppg on 79.0 FGA per team per game.

Go back to Baylor's greatest full-time season. He played 42.9 mpg, and averaged 29.7 FGA per game, scoring 34.8 ppg, in an NBA that averaged 118.1 ppg on 109.4 FGA per team per game.

Rick Barry had the highest scoring full-time "non-Wilt" season IN the Wilt-era (35.6 ppg.) He averaged 40.7 mpg and 28.7 FGA per game, in an NBA that averaged 117.4 ppg, and 103.0 FGA per team per game.

In Kareem's highest scoring season, he averaged 44.2 mpg and 24.4 FGA per game, in an NBA that averaged 110.2 ppg and 95.5 FGA per team per game. Interesting too, that in that post-season, he took, by far, the most FGAs of his post-season career, at 28.9 FGA per game...and his scoring declined all the way down from 34.8 ppg to 28.7 ppg.

Tiny Archibald followed Kareem's 71-72 season, in 72-73, with a year in which he played 46.0 mpg (yes 46.0 mpg), and averaged 34.0 ppg (and 11.4 apg) on 26.3 FGA per game, in an NBA that averaged 107.6 ppg on 96.9 FGA per team, per game.

Bob McAdoo had his highest scoring season, just two year's after Tiny's highest scoring season...playing 43.2 ppg, and averaging 34.5 ppg on 26.1 FGA, in a league that averaged 102.6 ppg on 91.1 FGA per team per game.


Other than Wilt...the seasonal limits for FGAs has been between 26-30 FGA per game. "Pace" didn't make a difference, whether the league averaged 118.1 ppg or 97.0 ppg.


And even in the post-season, in much shorter time frames, the limit was about 32.7 FGA (Baylor), with Barry at 32.6, and MJ at 31.7. Even Hakeem took 29 FGAs in a Finals in a post-season NBA that averaged 99.3 ppg on 78.4 FGA per game, per team. He took those 29 FGAs on a team that averaged 85.8 FGA in that Finals.

[DatAsh]

Durant would most definitely steal some of Jordan's scoring titles, and continually challenge him throughout his career. He is as good a scorer as anyone in history.

I agree with this and I think people tend to take Durant for granted. If he continues putting up 30ppg 63%+ scoring seasons, he could very well eclipse Jordan. Jordan was never that efficient.

[DatAsh]

Durant probably puts up more 33-35ppg seasons back in the 80's where the league was more reliant on 1 on 1 plays.

His efficiency may drop a bit playing in the 80s/90s. He wouldn't get to the line as much as he does today, and the higher percentage points in the paint would be harder to come by with the general lack of spacing. Then again, teams didn't defend the 3 anywhere near as well as they do today.

[DonDadda59]

Dantley from 81-84...

.622, .631, .661, and .652.

He also had a season of 29.8 ppg on a .629.


Dantley did it 4 times

How did this thread progress past the first 2 posts?

OP came in with a clear agenda without doing any research and was shut down immediately.

[plowking]

His efficiency may drop a bit playing in the 80s/90s. He wouldn't get to the line as much as he does today, and the higher percentage points in the paint would be harder to come by with the general lack of spacing. Then again, teams didn't defend the 3 anywhere near as well as they do today.

Exactly. His efficiency probably stays put if anything considering how much room he'd be getting on the 3 point line. If not, the rim is going to be easier.

People most definitely take Durant for granted. He is probably just as talented as Bron, but people want to sit around and pretend they see holes in his game.

[DonDadda59]

Exactly. His efficiency probably stays put if anything considering how much room he'd be getting on the 3 point line. If not, the rim is going to be easier.

People most definitely take Durant for granted. He is probably just as talented as Bron, but people want to sit around and pretend they see holes in his game.

You talking about the same dude who got manhandled by Tony Allen and had his own city calling him Mr. Unreliable last year? :lol

http://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/tulsaworld.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/b/6a/b6ad3716-d160-11e3-9fad-0017a43b2370/5362967e23911.preview-300.jpg

How soon people forget...

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

You talking about the same dude who got manhandled by Tony Allen and had his own city calling him Mr. Unreliable last year? :lol

http://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/tulsaworld.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/b/6a/b6ad3716-d160-11e3-9fad-0017a43b2370/5362967e23911.preview-300.jpg

How soon people forget...

Guys putting KD in that tier w/ MJ must be doing it for his regular-season exploits... In the playoffs it really isn't that close. Jordan's scoring run in '93 for example is one where legends are made of.

I've said Durant back in the 90s could challenge Jordan for his scoring titles, but thats just me being fair. Too many here jumping the shark and getting wild in their assessments.

[LAZERUSS]

Incidently, KD has been exceptionally efficient in his high scoring seasons, but Oscar was close in his, as well.

Durant has had seasons of 30.1 ppg on 20.3 FGAs, and 32.0 ppg on 20.8 FGAs, while Oscar had seasons of 31.4 ppg on 22.0 FGAs, and 31.3 ppg on 22.7 FGAs (and another of 30.5 ppg on 21.5 FGAs.)

And when you factor in that KD's era was shooting at a much higher efficiency, it puts a solid perspective into Oscar's 30+ ppg seasons.

[plowking]

You talking about the same dude who got manhandled by Tony Allen and had his own city calling him Mr. Unreliable last year? :lol

http://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/tulsaworld.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/b/6a/b6ad3716-d160-11e3-9fad-0017a43b2370/5362967e23911.preview-300.jpg

How soon people forget...

Didn't Durant put up 29/10/7 on better efficiency than MJ did in the 96 finals. Yet we praise one, and hail the other a failure? Interesting.

[DonDadda59]

Didn't Durant put up 29/10/7 on better efficiency than MJ did in the 96 finals. Yet we praise one, and hail the other a failure? Interesting.

You just compared a 33 year old Jordan to a peak 26 year old Durant playing in a far less physical era. Let defenses play Durant like the Sonics played MJ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WpkXlrJxtw) and Mr. Unreliable would not only show up come playoff time. Dude is physically weak and lets a guy half his size push him around, bump him off his position in the post, etc.

He was fortunate Tony was only coming off the bench that series.

We may have already seen Durant at his absolute best. His play this past season and injury issues while his teammate snatched his scoring title had 'T-Mac' written all over it. :(

[BlakFrankWhite]

You talking about the same dude who got manhandled by Tony Allen and had his own city calling him Mr. Unreliable last year? :lol

http://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/tulsaworld.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/b/6a/b6ad3716-d160-11e3-9fad-0017a43b2370/5362967e23911.preview-300.jpg

How soon people forget...

I believe that headline was after game 5.

With Thunder facing elimination...KD being the big dick Alpha took matter in his own hands

Game 6: 36/11
Game 7: 33/9

The paper said he needed a signature moment in Memphis...and KD delivered :bowdown: :bowdown:

[plowking]

You just compared a 33 year old Jordan to a peak 26 year old Durant playing in a far less physical era. Let defenses play Durant like the Sonics played MJ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WpkXlrJxtw) and Mr. Unreliable would not only show up come playoff time. Dude is physically weak and lets a guy half his size push him around, bump him off his position in the post, etc.

He was fortunate Tony was only coming off the bench that series.

We may have already seen Durant at his absolute best. His play this past season and injury issues while his teammate snatched his scoring title had 'T-Mac' written all over it. :(

Defenses are better now than before, and Durant still put up better numbers than MJ. I don't see your point.

[Young X]

Defenses are better now than before, and Durant still put up better numbers than MJ. I don't see your point.How?

[plowking]

How?

Because they give up less points and are more organized. Pretty simple.

[Young X]

Because they give up less points and are more organized. Pretty simple.'14: 106.6 ORtg - 50.1 eFG% (highest ever in NBA history)
'96: 107.6 ORtg - 49.9 eFG%

Looks pretty similar to me :confusedshrug:

There's more defensive rebounding now but teams are shooting the same %'s today that they did 20 years ago.

[iamgine]

This IMO...is the hallmark of effecient scoring.

Does anyone have a list of players who've achieved this feat.

As far as I know only Kevin Durant in 2013-14 has averaged 32 PPG on 63% TS :bowdown: :bowdown:

He got real close in 2012-13...averaging 28 ppg on 64% TS.
Efficiency is graded on a curve.

If everyone else TS% was 40% (like it did in the 50s) then a TS% of 45% would be very efficient.