If people are born gay, then are people born pedophiles?

[Lensanity]

I personally think that sexuality is not something you are born with, but my opinion on that doesn't really matter. The point is if it isn't OK to hate gays because they are born that way then does that mean we shouldn't hate pedos? How is it any different?

And I'm not talking about raping children. I'm talking about sexual attraction.

[DonD13]

it's always part genetic disposition and part culture/upbringing

[iamgine]

We are born neither straight nor gay. We developed our sexual attraction later on, not in the womb.

[Hit_Em]

yes they are but its still wrong and they should be shot like monkeys in a cage if they ever touch a child or watch child porn.

[CNNonceAgain]

it's always part genetic disposition and part culture/upbringing
/thread

[kNIOKAS]

You shouldn't hate people. That's irrational.

[outbreak]

Even if they are born attracted to kids they still know better than to act on it especially the cases where there's zero consent. Can't really justify it because then you could say well some people are born with an urge to kill other people on the street.

[DukeDelonte13]

A high percentage of child molesters were molested themselves. Typically the age they were abused corresponds to the age that they are attracted to.

[UK2K]

We are born neither straight nor gay. We developed our sexual attraction later on, not in the womb.

Like in prison, where straight men can suddenly get hard looking at another dudes asshole.

[Bandito]

We are born neither straight nor gay. We developed our sexual attraction later on, not in the womb.
This. Sexual attraction is mostly what people feel at the time. You can like the dick today and later on like a vajay jay just because and vice versa.

[longhornfan1234]

This. Sexual attraction is mostly what people feel at the time. You can like the dick today and later on like a vajay jay just because and vice versa.
:lol :oldlol: :roll: :yaohappy:

[Dbrog]

A high percentage of child molesters were molested themselves. Typically the age they were abused corresponds to the age that they are attracted to.

This is the truest thing in the thread. However, when we talk about being attracted to 15 or 16 year olds, realize that it makes sense historically. I mean, that used to be prime marrying age. Social norms were the only thing that changed. Perspective is key.

[StephHamann]

Cannabis can cure pedophiles.

[SexSymbol]

There's nothing to suggest that gays are born this way, no genetic explanation or proof.
Meanwhile, I've read an article on two indentical twins, one of which was gay, so they examined everything they could find in both of them, and there were no differences genetically. Think of that what you want

[West-Side]

We are born neither straight nor gay. We developed our sexual attraction later on, not in the womb.

Than how come all the people that are gay and lesbians disagree with this statement?

All of them believe they were born liking the same gender.
I do agree with you, it makes logical sense but yet why do the gay community get offended by this statement?

[Dbrog]

Not really sure why people think there would be genetic proof of being gay. It's not like it's a medical condition or something (although it used to be considered one which is probably where this idea came about). Can genetics measure your food preferences? No. We are all born with different natural preferences which can be modified somewhat by our environment. It should also be noted that gay and straight isn't black and white. Sexuality is on a continuum as seen in the Kinsey Scale (google it).

[RidonKs]

Than how come all the people that are gay and lesbians disagree with this statement?

All of them believe they were born liking the same gender.
I do agree with you, it makes logical sense but yet why do the gay community get offended by this statement?
they can believe it all they want, they're wrong and its intuitively obvious

first of all, as has been raised already in this thread, how can you be born a certain way then 'change' during your life. an easier explanation is that you weren't born that way at all.

"born gay" is a direct rebuttal to the homophobe agenda, which promoted that it wasn't a choice. the obvious rebuttal to it not being a choice is that its innate, right in your bones, nothing you can do about it, not my fault so how can you blame me? but that is only a helpful rebuttal if there is no other way around it. but there is another way around it.

like the poster you quoted suggested, there is no gay gene, nor is there any way to tell from birth somebody's sexual orientation. that leaves a perfectly valid explanation: that it is neither set and stone at birth nor deliberately chosen during adolescence, but rather manifests over time in different ways depending on experience. so maybe you were born straight but your uncle raped you... thats the gist anyway

[CNNonceAgain]

Not really sure why people think there would be genetic proof of being gay. It's not like it's a medical condition or something (although it used to be considered one which is probably where this idea came about). Can genetics measure your food preferences? No. We are all born with different natural preferences which can be modified somewhat by our environment. It should also be noted that gay and straight isn't black and white. Sexuality is on a continuum as seen in the Kinsey Scale (google it).
Actually, the whole "born this way" meme was started by gays to shut down the religious" being gay is a choice" me me. Both are silly



EDIT: I see donks beat me to it.

[Dbrog]

they can believe it all they want, they're wrong and its intuitively obvious

first of all, as has been raised already in this thread, how can you be born a certain way then 'change' during your life. an easier explanation is that you weren't born that way at all.

"born gay" is a direct rebuttal to the homophobe agenda, which promoted that it wasn't a choice. the obvious rebuttal to it not being a choice is that its innate, right in your bones, nothing you can do about it, not my fault so how can you blame me? but that is only a helpful rebuttal if there is no other way around it. but there is another way around it.

like the poster you quoted suggested, there is no gay gene, nor is there any way to tell from birth somebody's sexual orientation. that leaves a perfectly valid explanation: that it is neither set and stone at birth nor deliberately chosen during adolescence, but rather manifests over time in different ways depending on experience. so maybe you were born straight but your uncle raped you... thats the gist anyway

This is not the same as sexuality. If you are acting out sexually stemming from history of sexual abuse, you are actually trying to resolve the abuse (gain back the control that was taken from you. Unfortunately many times this results in re-traumatization)...nothing to do with sexual preference necessarily. I have met many people who were abused by the same sex as a child and are very straight on the Kinsey Scale. It's a very complex issue because most of the general public doesn't really understand sexuality and Kinsey Scale is just now starting to get more play in some media.

[RidonKs]

This is not the same as sexuality. If you are acting out sexually stemming from history of sexual abuse, you are actually trying to resolve the abuse (gain back the control that was taken from you. Unfortunately many times this results in re-traumatization)...nothing to do with sexual preference necessarily. I have met many people who were abused by the same sex as a child and are very straight on the Kinsey Scale. It's a very complex issue because most of the general public doesn't really understand sexuality and Kinsey Scale is just now starting to get more play in some media.
first time i ever heard of the kinsey scale. i was half kidding obv, but interesting info.

bolded is a wonderful turn of phrase btw, even if it does describe something grotesque

[~primetime~]

There are definitely some people that are born 100% gay, and science has shown they are born with a different brain chemistry.

Gay men are born with female brains, gay women have male brains.

http://content.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1815538,00.html


If you think people like Richard Simmons got that way because they played with Barbies when they were little you're wrong.


And to answer the OP, yes I think most pedophiles were born that way, with some kind of mental defect that affected their sexuality.

[RidonKs]

There are definitely some people that are born 100% gay, and science has shown they are born with a different brain chemistry.

Gay men are born with female brains, gay women have male brains.

http://content.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1815538,00.html


If you think people like Richard Simmons got that way because they played with Barbies when they were little you're wrong.


And to answer the OP, yes I think most pedophiles were born that way, with some kind of mental defect that affected their sexuality.
they studied adults though. to back up your claim, the clear cut case would have to be brain chemistry variations between straight and gay infants. but of course that doesn't make sense, since neither of them are straight or gay yet, since neither have hit puberty, so how do you tell?

that's the problem. the fact that there are telltale signs in that sample to distinguish between gay brains and straight brains is a misnomer. each individual could have developed their distinctive chemistry anywhere between the ages of 5 and 25.

thus your study has little to do with nature v nurture

[Thorpesaurous]

I believe it was FBI profiler John Douglas who said something to the effect of "What gets you off is what gets you off". And while I'm in not against gay marriage or anything, there is something a little off about the notion that you can't legislate sexuality. Pedophilia is one, and Sexual Sadism is another that can be tricky. He said that once he stopped looking at the people he was profiling as deviants, and started looking at them as people chasing urges that were natural to them, it became easier for him to figure them out.

[RidonKs]

ever heard of this case?


Brain Tumour Causes Uncontrollable Pedophilia (https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn2943-brain-tumour-causes-uncontrollable-paedophilia)


The sudden and uncontrollable paedophilia exhibited by a 40-year-old man was caused by an egg-sized brain tumour, his doctors have told a scientific conference. And once the tumour had been removed, his sex-obsession disappeared.

The cancer was located in the right lobe of the orbifrontal cortex, which is known to be tied to judgment, impulse control and social behaviour. But neurologists Russell Swerdlow and Jeffrey Burns, of the University of Virginia at Charlottesville, believe it is the first reported case linking damage to the region with paedophilia.

“We’re dealing with the neurology of morality here,” says Swerdlow. Since the area does not affect physical health, “it’s one of those areas where you could have a lot of damage and a doctor would never suspect something’s wrong,” he says.

“He wasn’t faking,” says Burns. “But if someone argues that every paedophile needs a MRI, the difference in this case was that the patient had a normal history before he acquired the problem. Most paedophiles develop problems early on in life.”

The man, a schoolteacher, began secretly visiting child pornography web sites and soliciting prostitutes at massage parlours, activities he had not engaged in previously. Swerdlow says while the man felt that his new behaviour was unacceptable, “in his words, the ‘pleasure principle’ overrode his restraint”.

When the man’s wife found out he had made subtle sexual advances towards young children, he was legally evicted from his house, found guilty of child molestation and medicated for paedophilia.

The judge ruled that he had to pass a 12-step Sexaholics Anonymous rehabilitation program or face jail time. But the man was expelled after he failed to restrain himself from asking women at the program for sex.

The evening before his prison sentencing he took himself to a hospital complaining of headache and saying he was afraid he would rape his landlady.

After he was remanded to psychiatric care, he complained of balance problems and a MRI scan revealed an egg-sized brain tumour. Further tests found the man was also unable to write or copy drawings and was unconcerned when he urinated on himself.

But seven months after the tumour was removed, and after successfully completing the Sexaholics Anonymous program, the man returned home. In October 2001 he complained of headaches and secretly collected pornography once more. But after a MRI scan revealed tumour regrowth and it was removed, the behaviour again disappeared.

Swerdlow suggests that physicians who see personality changes coupled with an inability to write or copy pictures may now want to consider brain disease as a possible cause.

Behavioural neurologist David Rosenfield, of the Baylor College of Medicine in Houston, says: “They have an interesting patient. I would wonder whether the tumour caused hormonal changes.” Rosenfield thinks further research should investigate whether other problems with the orbifrontal cortex can be linked to paedophilia.

Burns and Swerdlow presented their findings in New York at the annual meeting of the American Neurological Association.

[Dbrog]

It's a really stupid example, but you guys remember the kid from Chuck and Larry (movie)? Yes I know you probably think of Biel's ass and wonderful jigglies...I do too. Anyway, that kid is actually a great example of children who actually exist. VERY clear that they were born VERY gay. No amount of environment is going to change that. There are even many examples of parents who believe their child is gay as an infant. We are likely born with different "leanings" the same as with food or hobbies/interests.

[RidonKs]

It's a really stupid example, but you guys remember the kid from Chuck and Larry (movie)? Yes I know you probably think of Biel's ass and wonderful jigglies...I do too. Anyway, that kid is actually a great example of children who actually exist. VERY clear that they were born VERY gay. No amount of environment is going to change that. There are even many examples of parents who believe their child is gay as an infant. We are likely born with different "leanings" the same as with food or hobbies/interests.
but it seems to me that you're still testing that kid a bit late, no? understood i've seen many flamboyant totally f@ggy kids in my life, hell i've worked closely with them. but its important not to underestimate just how much we learn in our first year or two years from our loved ones who are around us at all times. even if a four year old is exhibiting extremely feminine behaviour, any conclusion that he was that way straight from birth is going to be next to impossible to prove. imo anyway

[Hit_Em]

Who would choose to be gay or a pedophile man some of you are so deep in the closest its not even funny :roll:

[Dbrog]

but it seems to me that you're still testing that kid a bit late, no? understood i've seen many flamboyant totally f@ggy kids in my life, hell i've worked closely with them. but its important not to underestimate just how much we learn in our first year or two years from our loved ones who are around us at all times. even if a four year old is exhibiting extremely feminine behaviour, any conclusion that he was that way straight from birth is going to be next to impossible to prove. imo anyway

:lol

Again, there are reports of parents thinking their kid is gay when they are an infant. Not exactly sure what they are seeing though...then again, I don't have kids so I know nothing about parenthood. My guess would be most parents aren't willingly buying their sons dollhouses in their first few years or buying their daughters GI Joes.

Edit: Another good example is an adopted child with 2 gay parents. Most of the time they don't turn out to be gay but are certainly much more understanding on the subject.

[Nick Young]

My personal opinion is it's mostly nurture, but also some people are just born flaming homos , not that there's anything wrong with that.

[iamgine]

Than how come all the people that are gay and lesbians disagree with this statement?

All of them believe they were born liking the same gender.
I do agree with you, it makes logical sense but yet why do the gay community get offended by this statement?
They are offended more to the notion that people are born straight and therefore gayness is an unnatural abnormality.

[Thorpesaurous]

ever heard of this case?


Brain Tumour Causes Uncontrollable Pedophilia (https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn2943-brain-tumour-causes-uncontrollable-paedophilia)


This is interesting. But I wonder if it's fair to conclude that the tumor caused the pedophilia tendencies somehow, of if he's someone who always had them but was able to restrain himself, and the tumor affected his ability to restrain himself from his normal urges. He could even have been repressing the urges subconsciously for years. It's weird because it caused other behaviors too.

[~primetime~]

they studied adults though. to back up your claim, the clear cut case would have to be brain chemistry variations between straight and gay infants. but of course that doesn't make sense, since neither of them are straight or gay yet, since neither have hit puberty, so how do you tell?

that's the problem. the fact that there are telltale signs in that sample to distinguish between gay brains and straight brains is a misnomer. each individual could have developed their distinctive chemistry anywhere between the ages of 5 and 25.

thus your study has little to do with nature v nurture
You think the actual size of their brain could change based on life events?

Evidence points to the deciding factor taking place in the womb. They know this from all the different cases in identical twins who have the same DNA but may or may not have the same upbringing.

http://io9.com/5967426/scientists-confirm-that-homosexuality-is-not-genetic--but-it-arises-in-the-womb?dfp_pp_ab=on&dfp_desktop_three=on&utm_expid=66866090-43.E9Bjfd6NTuSlXJewu2e_Ig.2&utm_referrer=http%3A%2F%2Fthestir.cafemom.com%2Fpr egnancy%2F148024%2FYour_Womb_Could_Make_Your

[senelcoolidge]

Am going to get it for this..sorry to offend anybody here that is gay. But gay, pedophilia, necrophilia, or any other not normal sexual manifestations are some sort of chemical imbalance or just something not normal with the brain. That's just my opinion. Tumors, sure probably. Everyone's brain doesn't develop the same.

[RidonKs]

You think the actual size of their brain could change based on life events?

Evidence points to the deciding factor taking place in the womb. They know this from all the different cases in identical twins who have the same DNA but may or may not have the same upbringing.

http://io9.com/5967426/scientists-confirm-that-homosexuality-is-not-genetic--but-it-arises-in-the-womb?dfp_pp_ab=on&dfp_desktop_three=on&utm_expid=66866090-43.E9Bjfd6NTuSlXJewu2e_Ig.2&utm_referrer=http%3A%2F%2Fthestir.cafemom.com%2Fpr egnancy%2F148024%2FYour_Womb_Could_Make_Your
huh i stand corrected, thats fascinating

tho it does sound like epigenetics have a long way to go. in the article it states that they are typically created from scratch, with each new generation, but in this case they could sometimes infer sexuality based on heredity.

i wasn't talking size btw.

[NumberSix]

This is interesting. But I wonder if it's fair to conclude that the tumor caused the pedophilia tendencies somehow, of if he's someone who always had them but was able to restrain himself, and the tumor affected his ability to restrain himself from his normal urges. He could even have been repressing the urges subconsciously for years. It's weird because it caused other behaviors too.
This. Correlation doesn't equal causation.

It's entirely possible that the tumor merely diminished his impulse control.

[Thorpesaurous]

This. Correlation doesn't equal causation.

It's entirely possible that the tumor merely diminished his impulse control.


I would almost say, because of the stuff like the seeking out prostitutes and massage parlors, that it almost seems more likely that the tumor was effecting him impulse control. I'd be curious if he showed other signs of impulse control issues, like eating binges.

[97 bulls]

This has always been my biggest argument against those that try to justify homosexuality as being "born that way". We're all born with certain predispositions. But we are expected to carry ourselves regardless of what our mind tells us. And excuse certain behaviour as consenual.

Like for instance this subway guy (forget his name). Not sure on how young these girls were, but the original was 17 and was paid. I know he requested younger girls. But how many were forced to do something against their will?

[NumberSix]

This has always been my biggest argument against those that try to justify homosexuality as being "born that way". We're all born with certain predispositions. But we are expected to carry ourselves regardless of what our mind tells us. And excuse certain behaviour as consenual.

Like for instance this subway guy (forget his name). Not sure on how young these girls were, but the original was 17 and was paid. I know he requested younger girls. But how many were forced to do something against their will?
Is homosexuality something that needs to be "justified" though? If 2men want to smoke each others joints or 2 women want to vacuum each others carpets, who does it hurt? :confusedshrug:

Pedos have victims. It requires victimizing a child. There's no moral equivalence between pedos and gays.

[97 bulls]

Is homosexuality something that needs to be "justified" though? If 2men want to smoke each others joints or 2 women want to vacuum each others carpets, who does it hurt? :confusedshrug:
I agree. As a Christian, I feel its between them and God. We shouldn't be judging them. I am arguing the sliperry slope used to justify the behaviour. I find it funny that evry other personality trait that a person emits is based on their life circumstances but homosexuality. Go figure.


Pedos have victims. It requires victimizing a child. There's no moral equivalence between pedos and gays.
You telling me that the teenage boys that slept with their teachers are victims? Come on. And why bring up the most extreme cases. Sure its wrong to have sex with a baby or young child. But again? Why do people do it? All these people were raped as kids?

[UK2K]

Who would choose to be gay or a pedophile man some of you are so deep in the closest its not even funny :roll:

Men in prison choose to be gay every day.

You can argue at the idea that there isn't much of a choice, but I don't think I could get a stiffy looking at a dudes butthole, ever.

[SugarHill]

Men in prison choose to be gay every day.

You can argue at the idea that there isn't much of a choice, but I don't think I could get a stiffy looking at a dudes butthole, ever.
You never been in the shower with a man and see the suds roll down the crack of his ass?

[ekosky]

You never been in the shower with a man and see the suds roll down the crack of his ass?
:roll:

[Lensanity]

You never been in the shower with a man and see the suds roll down the crack of his ass?
:lol

[Dbrog]

You guys do realize that "gayness" has been around forever. Hell the Romans got a little of both with gayness AND pedophilia. These "rules" and calling people "abnormal" has no basis in reality. They are just social constructs (many products of religion). Humans have these sexual tendencies...nothing abnormal in the brain about this. Just exists in greater capacities for each individual.

[nba_55]

I personally think that sexuality is not something you are born with, but my opinion on that doesn't really matter. The point is if it isn't OK to hate gays because they are born that way then does that mean we shouldn't hate pedos? How is it any different?

And I'm not talking about raping children. I'm talking about sexual attraction.

Nobody knows. One thing we know is that pedophiles hurt other people, gays not really.

[UK2K]

Nobody knows. One thing we know is that pedophiles hurt other people, gays not really.

That doesn't matter, at all. Ignoring the fact that every sexual preference is capable of hurting others...


A group of male sexual predators are raping men in Washington, D.C. According to reports by MyFox DC, the incident occurred this past weekend when a man was walking in the Columbia Heights area of D.C

A van pulled up next to the man and someone inside the vehicle pointed a weapon at the suspect. The suspect was kidnapped by seven men who sexually assaulted him inside the van. The man could only identify one Hispanic male who stood over 6 feet.

This is the second time within a year that an adult male has been raped by a group of men in the D.C. area.

You can be a pedophile and not act on it.

The question is, if gays are to be legally accepted because they are born with it, then why are we punishing pedophiles for their attractions?

Throw that 'they hurt people' argument out the window. The fact is, if gays are born gay and can't help it, then pedophiles are born kiddie touchers and they cant help it.

[~primetime~]

That doesn't matter, at all. Ignoring the fact that every sexual preference is capable of hurting others...



You can be a pedophile and not act on it.

The question is, if gays are to be legally accepted because they are born with it, then why are we punishing pedophiles for their attractions?

Throw that 'they hurt people' argument out the window. The fact is, if gays are born gay and can't help it, then pedophiles are born kiddie touchers and they cant help it.
They can't help what they are attracted to but they can help acting on that attraction. A grown man fcking a child HURTS the child...a grown man fcking another grown man hurts no one.

come on dude, this really isn't that difficult to grasp

[Lensanity]

They can't help what they are attracted to but they can help acting on that attraction. A grown man fcking a child HURTS the child...a grown man fcking another grown man hurts no one.

come on dude, this really isn't that difficult to grasp
So basically you are saying what viewing child porn is OK.

Correct?

[Hit_Em]

Men in prison choose to be gay every day.

You can argue at the idea that there isn't much of a choice, but I don't think I could get a stiffy looking at a dudes butthole, ever.
Nah they are just closet homos and being trapped around men all day they cant deny their homo feelings.

If you trap a straight religious person(virgin who is saving himself for marriage) around women all day who are willing to have sex with him.He will eventually break.

Same goes for the dudes in prison who were suppressing their attraction to other men til they got locked up


Matter fact im done posting in this thread if you guys truly believe choose to be gay/pedos knock yourself out its your life think what you want

[~primetime~]

So basically you are saying what viewing child porn is OK.

Correct?
wha?

how did you get that from what I said?...a grown man having sex with children HURTS the child involved

[niko]

So basically you are saying what viewing child porn is OK.

Correct?
Weed affects reading comprehension apparently.

[nba_55]

That doesn't matter, at all. Ignoring the fact that every sexual preference is capable of hurting others...



You can be a pedophile and not act on it.

The question is, if gays are to be legally accepted because they are born with it, then why are we punishing pedophiles for their attractions?

Throw that 'they hurt people' argument out the window. The fact is, if gays are born gay and can't help it, then pedophiles are born kiddie touchers and they cant help it.

That's not true. Part of the reason why it's legally accepted is because gays doesn't hurt other people.

[Lensanity]

wha?

how did you get that from what I said?...a grown man having sex with children HURTS the child involved
Yes, I understand that. Watching child porn (not making it) does not hurt a child. I'm asking you if you think that since it does not hurt a child or anyone else, is it OK?

[Lensanity]

That's not true. Part of the reason why it's legally accepted is because gays doesn't hurt other people.


If you watch (not film/make/support) child porn you harm absolutely nobody.

[nba_55]

If you watch (not film/make/support) child porn you harm absolutely nobody.

by watching it you support it, so yes you harm children by watching it.

[RidonKs]

shouldn't we just outlaw the porn industry but allow the product... like we do with prostitution? there's already like 500 million porn videos out there. they aren't going anywhere except swirling deeper and deeper around the internet toilet. sure lots of cvnts and pr!cks will lose their work but isn't it for the greater good? then u dun even have to worry about child porn since telling the difference between a 17yo and a 20yo will be completely irrelevant!

[Giaodollo]

If you watch (not film/make/support) child porn you harm absolutely nobody.
You support it by watching it. Buying/watching inclines people to make more for monetary reasons, thus more children are forced to get ****ed on tape or strip etc.

Really isn't hard to grasp really.

[niko]

shouldn't we just outlaw the porn industry but allow the product... like we do with prostitution? there's already like 500 million porn videos out there. they aren't going anywhere except swirling deeper and deeper around the internet toilet. sure lots of cvnts and pr!cks will lose their work but isn't it for the greater good? then u dun even have to worry about child porn since telling the difference between a 17yo and a 20yo will be completely irrelevant!

Child porn is not an issue that mainly involves 17 yr old girls. Where did that come from?

[RidonKs]

Child porn is not an issue that mainly involves 17 yr old girls. Where did that come from?
i just made it up

[nba_55]

And why exactly do we have so many topics in here comparing gays to pedophiles? LOL

[niko]

So is this the new gimmick? Pretending kiddy porn is ok? This is pretty sad even by ISH standards.