2001 - Jordan admits he benefited from Illegal Defense Rules

[GIF REACTION]

But there was one that might be bothersome, the zone defense. It was the topic du jour at last month's All-Star Game, and Jordan was making an impassioned plea before the competition committee that had gathered to consider rules changes to enliven the NBA game. Jordan spoke passionately. If teams were able to play zone defenses, he said, he never would have had the career he did.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2001-04-01/sports/0104010375_1_defense-recommendations-nba

Well, that settles that. Don't even try donald. Michael said it himself. It's over.

[ralph_i_el]

https://33.media.tumblr.com/264fa39dd6babb18023f36bfe4118b6f/tumblr_nouyx7BeuD1s3mekdo1_400.gif

[GIF REACTION]

Jordan spoke passionately. If teams were able to play zone defenses, he said, he never would have had the career he did.

yep

[West-Side]

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2001-04-01/sports/0104010375_1_defense-recommendations-nba

Well, that settles that. Don't even try donald. Michael said it himself. It's over.

This might be the greatest ether this forum has ever seen.
Holy shit. :bowdown: :applause: :eek:

http://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/clapping_joker_batman_dark_knight.gif

http://media.giphy.com/media/NnGGHE0muVqpO/giphy.gif

http://media2.giphy.com/media/dOJt6XZlQw8qQ/giphy.gif

http://media.giphy.com/media/KsgLFgQp7Elj2/giphy.gif

[sdot_thadon]

Well, I guess that's that.
/discussion

[atljonesbro]

Can't wait to hear the Mj stans that know Mj better than himself

[GIF REACTION]

But wait. I've got more.


"I never liked zones," Jordan said. "I felt like that's a lazy way to play defense and with them, you can eliminate a lot of the stars making things happen."


Bothered by Charlotte's zone defense, Jordan fell out of rhythm in the final period and made just five of his 11 tries. He missed four straight midway through the quarter, and after hitting a late 3-pointer to cut the deficit to four, the ball slipped out of Jordan's hands under Charlotte's basket after the Hornets double-teamed him.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/nba/games/2001-12-26-wizards-hornets.htm

[Trollsmasher]

welp, that's it for dumbdadda and 3ball

[RidonKs]

Jordan fell out of rhythm in the final period and made just five of his 11 tries.
:kobe:

[West-Side]

But wait. I've got more.





http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/nba/games/2001-12-26-wizards-hornets.htm

Oh my god, this is incredible.
*grabs popcorn. :rockon:

[GIF REACTION]

It's over. It's finally ****ing over. Start digging the hole. Bury him 6 deep.

RIP Donald and 3ball.

[GIF REACTION]

:kobe:

"A couple of times I got in and I just couldn't finish it," said Jordan, who shot 11-for-28.
Well...

[riseagainst]

dam.....

:roll:

[jlip]

There is a poster on here who has been citing this article for months. I can't remember who it is though.

[West-Side]

This is vicious; I can't wait to watch DonDadda try to weasel his way out this.
"Uhm, I think Jordan drank like 23 Budweisers before giving this interview." :roll:

[Poetry]

But wait. I've got more.





http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/nba/games/2001-12-26-wizards-hornets.htm

3 days later, at nearly 39 years of age, Jordan drops 51 on this same team.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ye-0ghhY7uw

Zone defense :oldlol:

[Poetry]

3 days later, at nearly 39 years of age, Jordan drops 51 on this same team.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ye-0ghhY7uw

Zone defense :oldlol:

Think about this, what if Jordan were 29-years-old during this game?

[GIF REACTION]

Here's some more quotes from other important figures on the matter... Trying to find the source to these.. I think it might have been in a interview or magazine


"But for scorers like myself and Carmelo and KD, the rules from the '80s can be more beneficial for us, because you have to be played straight up. You want to double team, you got to come all the way over. So, for us, I don't care if you hand check us with three hands. If there's nobody behind you, you're not going to stop us. So the zone I think cripples some of the top scorers." - Kobe Bryant

"Coming into the NBA, one of the fun things I thought about was playing against man-to-man all of the time. Now you get to throw a bunch of junk defenses and zones. It's changed the game. It's like college. It just doesn't seem like a real NBA game. I think it's a bad, bad rule. Man-to-man was great. The game was fine just the way it was. The zone thing takes a lot of fun away from the NBA game. Now the NBA game is just like college." - Allen Iverson

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

NBA teams don't even run a full functioning zone.

Against a real zone, ie. the ones employed in college ball, then maybe that Jordan quote would hold water. :oldlol:

[Dro]

SMH, Apparently you guys missed where Jordan came back a few years later and said he would score 100 points if he could play against a zone for the entire game. This was after the rules changes, it was around 2005 or so. It was after he got a chance to see the new rules actually play out and how easy it was for guys to score 30, he changed his tune. Those other quotes were made before he got a chance to see the rules actually play out. But hey, you guys cling on to anything that may possibly knock MJ off his consensus GOAT status that you just grab a quote and run with it. I'm not going to bother finding the other quote because 3ball already found it. He went back and forth with Hey-yo throughout the entire thread because 3ball kept posting the LATER quote and Hey-yo kept responding with the PREVIOUS quote, before the rule changes which made no sense whatsoever.

I already know 3ball has it because a thread like this was just started a few months ago and they were going back and forth about it. I don't understand how people were still tripping after Jordan's 2005 quote was posted but ISH managed to do it because this is ISH and half of ISH are Lebron/Kobe stans so they hate MJ. Pretty pathetic if you ask me but again, its ISH...

But anyway.....

Honestly, I could give a damn what MJ said either way. Anybody's who's actually played ball on some competitive level whether it be high school, college or whatever, knows that a great player will shred a zone any day if the zone is played all day and his teammates have any clue about how to be in the right position. In college, yeah a zone might work the entire game but in the pros? LOL. Yeah ok. MJ, Kobe, Tmac, anybody like that who is a great player/scorer but also smart will shred a zone. There's a reason teams barely play it and the ones that do play it, only play it like 10% of the time if that. You dudes posting quotes from players that think a zone would be tough to play in. Barkley is constantly quoted as saying he would love to play against a zone, it would be easy to beat. There's plenty of quotes from players who think it would be a cakewalk so why are all you dudes so one sided. Anybody who can hit a mid-range jumper consistently can beat a zone, but of course the midrange game doesn't exist anymore and only a handful players even incorporate it in their games, no wonder they would hate to play a zone, smh. You only post sh*t that supports your stance, you never look at the other side and include that sh*t too and thats why most of you can't be taken seriously...

Its crazy to me how you guys give Jordan "stans" so much sh*t but his haters spend more time on this forum creating topics to try to downgrade the man any chance they get over anything. To me, thats more sad than so-called "stans"...

But whatever.....Be nice when we can get back to when we had a bunch of adults discussing actual basketball and not just hating on everybody like a bunch of females in a call center..

And if you wanna talk shit about me, remember I'm not the stan. I like everybody, you dudes are the stans/haters..Same ones in all the threads...

As much as you dudes claim you hate 3ball, y'all sure do make a million posts a day trying to get his attention.

So carry on. You wanted 3ball, I'm sure you'll get him.

Most of you talked sh*t the entire season and when the playoffs are over, you only pop up in bait threads like this to get your hate on...haha, smfh...

[GIF REACTION]

That's not even a logical response. MICHAEL JORDAN HIMSELF said this. Unless you think you know more about the man then himself.... Delete that pathetic post.

[DonDadda59]

Oh lawd, my sides. :roll:

OK, where to begin...


But there was one that might be bothersome, the zone defense. It was the topic du jour at last month's All-Star Game, and Jordan was making an impassioned plea before the competition committee that had gathered to consider rules changes to enliven the NBA game. Jordan spoke passionately. If teams were able to play zone defenses, he said, he never would have had the career he did.

Where is the direct quote? Jordan was retired when the NBA rules committee met that year to discuss eliminating illegal D/instituting the 3-second rule. What sense does it make that he would be making 'impassioned pleas'? :wtf:

And everyone at the time overreacted to the announcement about the rule changes. They were under the impression that the NBA was being turned into the NCAA and teams would be playing actual zone defenses like they used to see in College. Pat Riley was convinced that teams would be averaging 70-80 PPG tops and T-Mac had this too say:


"I'm frustrated," McGrady said. "I'm frustrated from the simple fact that the NBA needs to take out the zone.

...

"To me, it's frustrating because I love to entertain. I mean, you play a zone on me like that and I don't know if you guys (media) realize that, or the fans realize that, but my job is real tough when a team zones up on us. I can't do anything."


The reality- team scoring did not in fact drop to 70-80 PPG as Riley had predicted. Scoring rose consistently for the first time since since the merger. From 2001-2014, Team PPG rose from 95 to 101. eFG% rose from the .47 to the .5 range. And individually, perimeter scoring exploded unlike any other era in NBA History.

T-Mac complained about not being able to do anything against the zone, yet he won 2 scoring titles in the 'GOAT defensive era :lol ' putting up a career high 32.1 PPG in the '02-'03 season.

All the overreactions were completely off-base. The NBA made the changes with the explicit goal of increasing scoring, encouraging more free-flowing offenses, and to give perimeter players unprecedented freedom in a thinly veiled effort to create Jordan clones.

And that's exactly what they got. :applause:

[ClipperRevival]

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2001-04-01/sports/0104010375_1_defense-recommendations-nba

Well, that settles that. Don't even try donald. Michael said it himself. It's over.

This is not surprising at all given that EVERYONE thought it would be a HUGE game changer before this rule was instituted. Like it would completely halt offenses. Turns out, it didn't.

And the article specifically mentions that how zone might be able to zero in on a star like MJ. That's why he said what he said. Because he knew it could affect him more than others. But as it turns out, the league adjusted. If the numbers completely changed the next year and going forward, I might entertain the notion that zone changed the game. But the league adjusted. It always does.

[DonDadda59]

Bothered by Charlotte's zone defense

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ye-0ghhY7uw

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[GIF REACTION]

Holy shit. Is everyone seeing this? MELTDOWN.

MJ said it himself. It's over kids.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ye-0ghhY7uw

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

RIP crocodile dundee.

This is what happens when "Aussies" try to talk basketball. :oldlol:

[GIF REACTION]

M-e-l-t-d-o-w-n.

[Trollsmasher]

holy shit that denial in this thread

[West-Side]

3 days later, at nearly 39 years of age, Jordan drops 51 on this same team.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ye-0ghhY7uw

Zone defense :oldlol:

38 & 39 year old Michael Jordan playing under the rules of zone defense.

2002 - 1.039 PPS (league average was 1.264)
2003 - 1.074 PPS (league average was 1.279)

Kobe Bryant in 2013 while playing more minutes and games than Jordan has in his entire career.

2013 - 1.337 PPS (league average 1.197)

Jordan played 1072 games played and and 41011 minutes.
Before 2013 season; Kobe already played 1161 career games and clocked in 42,377 minutes. :oldlol:

Jordan's FG%, 2PT% were also below league averages in 2002 & 2003; while Kobe was well above the league average in 2013, while having more miles in the NBA.

Dat Zone Defense. :pimp:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Mike against the zone? NBA record 51 points at age 38

LMAO

[GIF REACTION]

38 & 39 year old Michael Jordan playing under the rules of zone defense.

2002 - 1.039 PPS (league average was 1.264)
2003 - 1.074 PPS (league average was 1.279)

Kobe Bryant in 2013 while playing more minutes and games than Jordan has in his entire career.

2013 - 1.337 PPS (league average 1.197)

Jordan played 1072 games played and and 41011 minutes.
Before 2013 season; Kobe already played 1161 career games and clocked in 42,377 minutes. :oldlol:

Jordan's FG%, 2PT% were also below league averages in 2002 & 2003; while Kobe was well above the league average in 2013, while having more miles in the NBA.

Dat Zone Defense. :pimp:
MURDER.

[GIF REACTION]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGr3AJfV1rA


They even put a zone in the leaugue to try to stop him

[GIF REACTION]

RIP Don.

[West-Side]

Jordan scored 51 points on 38 shots.
That was the highlight of his career under zone defense. :applause:

[West-Side]

Kobe scored 47 points on 27 shots; the next game he tears his Achilles. :(
In that last (healthy) game of his career, he scored 34 points on 21 shots.

By this point he played nearly 200 more career games and had over 5000 more career minutes.

[RidonKs]

Oh lawd, my sides. :roll:

OK, where to begin...



Where is the direct quote? Jordan was retired when the NBA rules committee met that year to discuss eliminating illegal D/instituting the 3-second rule. What sense does it make that he would be making 'impassioned pleas'? :wtf:

And everyone at the time overreacted to the announcement about the rule changes. They were under the impression that the NBA was being turned into the NCAA and teams would be playing actual zone defenses like they used to see in College. Pat Riley was convinced that teams would be averaging 70-80 PPG tops and T-Mac had this too say:


"I'm frustrated," McGrady said. "I'm frustrated from the simple fact that the NBA needs to take out the zone.

...

"To me, it's frustrating because I love to entertain. I mean, you play a zone on me like that and I don't know if you guys (media) realize that, or the fans realize that, but my job is real tough when a team zones up on us. I can't do anything."


The reality- team scoring did not in fact drop to 70-80 PPG as Riley had predicted. Scoring rose consistently for the first time since since the merger. From 2001-2014, Team PPG rose from 95 to 101. eFG% rose from the .47 to the .5 range. And individually, perimeter scoring exploded unlike any other era in NBA History.

T-Mac complained about not being able to do anything against the zone, yet he won 2 scoring titles in the 'GOAT defensive era :lol ' putting up a career high 32.1 PPG in the '02-'03 season.

All the overreactions were completely off-base. The NBA made the changes with the explicit goal of increasing scoring, encouraging more free-flowing offenses, and to give perimeter players unprecedented freedom in a thinly veiled effort to create Jordan clones.

And that's exactly what they got. :applause:
:eek:

those philly/jersey squads sucked balls. tmac going nowhere in orlando, no help yet for duncan or kg, best competition coming from totally wing oriented bucks and raptors and celtics.. best big man between those teams was probably 42 year old hakeem :lol

lol @ veiled effort to create jordan clones

[MaxFly]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGr3AJfV1rA

All you need is a pair of these, and nothing else
Your hesitation to stop and pop will be something else...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3X274lz3wY

Ironically, that zone would have come in really handy for Jordan.

[West-Side]

GIF REACTION, it got awfully quiet. :oldlol:
Our job's done bruh. :cheers:

[riseagainst]

gif reaction owning these jordanytes.
on a daileeeeeee!!!
:applause:

[OldSchoolBBall]

Jordan fell out of rhythm in the final period and made just five of his 11 tries.

:kobe:

Yeah, that part was funny. :oldlol:

Btw OP, Jordan was clearly referring to college style zones where big men can just camp in the paint all day, not the zones employed today. Regardless of zone/no-zone, what's transparent is that there is a TON more space to operate today in and around the lane. It's night and day compared to the late 80's/early 90's. Jordan would feast.

[Hey Yo]

There is a poster on here who has been citing this article for months. I can't remember who it is though.
That would be me.

I quoted the article to 3ball and Don long ago.

[atljonesbro]

Holy shit Jordan stans are finished. They are absolutely crushed their hero himself actually said this. They are been arguing they know more about MJ than MJ himself.

[97 bulls]

The NBA doesn't use a real zone. A player can't be in the paint unless an opponent is there to defend against. Id say that for this reason, its easier to score in this pseudo zone tgag the league has implemented.

[GIF REACTION]

Stop

Team defense got better after Illegal defense was removed

Just stop

[catch24]

The NBA doesn't use a real zone. A player can't be in the paint unless an opponent is there to defend against. Id say that for this reason, its easier to score in this pseudo zone tgag the league has implemented.

This.

Phil Jackson and Larry Brown, sometime around the 2008 or 2009 season, said that Jordan would average 50 against today's rules and defenses.

Obviously he wouldn't average 50, but dude would destroy the league even more so today.

[juju151111]

Holy shit Jordan stans are finished. They are absolutely crushed their hero himself actually said this. They are been arguing they know more about MJ than MJ himself.
Actually no Mj wasn't the only one saying this. Tmac was too and guess what he did thevery next season. Led the league in scoring. Which means they were wrong the zones didn't stop them Tmac and Mj had the most 40 pt and 50 pt games that season

[GIF REACTION]

And what is a real zone anyways?

When these players mention 'zone', they are referring to any act or movement of defense that which would have been considered illegal under the illegal defense guidelines. You cannot deny that post 2001, defenses league wide have used principles of a zone, that was simply not allowed prior to 2001.

[GIF REACTION]

Please actually come up with a legitimate argument, not just nostalgia and hoo-hah.

I don't care that you used to wack off to old Jordan tapes when you were 13. Come with a real argument with facts and evidence.

[97 bulls]

And what is a real zone anyways?

When these players mention 'zone', they are referring to any act or movement of defense that which would have been considered illegal under the illegal defense guidelines. You cannot deny that post 2001, defenses league wide have used principles of a zone, that was simply not allowed prior to 2001.
Ok. But what Jordan said didn't pertain to the zone defense the NBA implemented. So whats your point

[GIF REACTION]

Yeah, it did.


The three-second rule came about in part following a game at Madison Square Garden between the University of Kentucky (UK) and New York University (NYU) in 1935, won by NYU 23-22

[GIF REACTION]

The 3 in the key rule (THE ONLY DEFENSIVE RESTRICTION IN THE GAME TODAY) has ALWAYS been there. It was originally apart of the illegal defense guidelines. It was not a new rule when they got rid of illegal defense in 2001. They simply rebranded it and it was the only left over part of illegal defense.

[9erempiree]

I've skimmed through the thread and I already have an opinion on this but GIF Reaction basically covered anything that I don't have to repeat.

I agree with him 100%.

[catch24]

Alonzo Mourning, who played with/against Wade, LeBron and Kobe:

“He’d probably average almost 50 a game. I mean, he really would because you wouldn’t be able to touch him on the perimeter, so he’d be shooting a ton of free throws.”


Larry Brown back in 2010 when he was coaching:

Today, rough and physical defense is no longer allowed so that players can have more opportunities to score.

Current Charlotte Bobcats coach Larry Brown said if Jordan played in the league now, he would average 50 points per game.

Food for thought.

[97 bulls]

The 3 in the key rule (THE ONLY DEFENSIVE RESTRICTION IN THE GAME TODAY) has ALWAYS been there. It was originally apart of the illegal defense guidelines. It was not a new rule when they got rid of illegal defense in 2001. They simply rebranded it and it was the only left over part of illegal defense.
Ok. So then by your own admonition, the NBA does not utilize a real zone.

[West-Side]

Yeah Jordan really did great under our current rules.
Result = most inefficient season in league history, followed by having a PPS, 2PT% & FG% below league average both for all players AND perimeter players. :rolleyes:


But but but he was old.

[GIF REACTION]

And you're denying the context and meaning of these people saying "zone". MJ was clearly drawing on his experience of playing with zones in the college game, which he did. How else could he make such an informed opinion? He already played in zones.

[97 bulls]

Yeah Jordan really did great under our current rules.
Result = most inefficient season in league history, followed by having a PPS, 2PT% & FG% below league average both for all players AND perimeter players. :rolleyes:


But but but he was old.
Yes. He was old. That is universally accepted when considering other players circumstances once they reach a certain age. Why not Jordan? Kobe didnt exactly set the world on fire this past season.

[catch24]

Yeah Jordan really did great under our current rules.
Result = most inefficient season in league history, followed by having a PPS, 2PT% & FG% below league average both for all players AND perimeter players. :rolleyes:


But but but he was old.

Uhhh, he was old... College ball and one of the best players from jump...

You guys are full of shit. :oldlol:

[97 bulls]

And you're denying the context and meaning of these people saying "zone". MJ was clearly drawing on his experience of playing with zones in the college game, which he did. How else could he make such an informed opinion? He already played in zones.
So what does that have to do with the way the game is played today?

[GIF REACTION]

Then stop trying to use it as evidence like it proves anything

Any of the greats can shotjack and put up decent numbers

[West-Side]

Yes. He was old. That is universally accepted when considering other players circumstances once they reach a certain age. Why not Jordan? Kobe didnt exactly set the world on fire this past season.

Kobe had a torn achille, completely different. :facepalm
Kobe had more mileage than Jordan after the 2012 season in terms of games played and minutes played.

Well, I've already posted their numbers, it's quite embarrassing.

[West-Side]

Uhhh, he was old... College ball and one of the best players from jump...

You guys are full of shit. :oldlol:

I've already set every Jordan fan on fire on this forum by adjusting their numbers to league average. GIF has a quote from Jordan himself; yet all you Jordan stans can do is give us your subjective opinions.

:facepalm

Peayceeee. :pimp:

[catch24]

Kobe had a torn achille, completely different. :facepalm
Kobe had more mileage than Jordan after the 2012 season in terms of games played and minutes played.

Well, I've already posted their numbers, it's quite embarrassing.

Kobe didn't play college basketball, and for his first 8 years (first 2 seasons on the bench), wasn't the #1 option/guy seeing double and triple teams like Shaq and Jordan were.

Dude is a legend in his own right, and one of my favorite players all-time, but these bullshit posts where he's being compared to Jordan gotta stop.

[GIF REACTION]

So what does that have to do with the way the game is played today?
Are you serious?

It means, your boy MJ, the poster boy for the 80's and 90's, openly admitted that a league that allows zone principles, hinders elite talent. There is no denying this.

And then you retards come out and say that today's players are terrible, and even compare stats, yet you do not recognize nor acknowledge the rule changes that occurred.... People like me and West-Side need to post the truth and keep it real.

[97 bulls]

Kobe had a torn achille, completely different. :facepalm
Kobe had more mileage than Jordan after the 2012 season in terms of games played and minutes played.

Well, I've already posted their numbers, it's quite embarrassing.
No excuses right? Jordan had his ribs broken by Ron Artest (arguably the best defender at the time) because he was making Artest look stupid. Can't have it both ways bro.

[GIF REACTION]

Like a broken rib compares to a torn achilles. Get off your high horses. They are LITERALLY not comparable.

[GIF REACTION]

MJ came off a cruisy 3 years off, smoking cigars and cutting his fingers. Kobe hasn't stopped once in his whole career. Jordan's had more lengthy spells than Shaq, Kobe, Lebron combined.

[97 bulls]

Are you serious?

It means, your boy MJ, the poster boy for the 80's and 90's, openly admitted that a league that allows zone principles, hinders elite talent. There is no denying this.
But again, as has been told to you. The league does not play in a real zone. They don't.


And then you retards come out and say that today's players are terrible, and even compare stats, yet you do not recognize nor acknowledge the rule changes that occurred.... People like me and West-Side need to post the truth and keep it real.
I actually agree. With you here. You cant compare stats accross eras. I hate when 80s guys do this because its not genuine.

[97 bulls]

Like a broken rib compares to a torn achilles. Get off your high horses. They are LITERALLY not comparable.
Lol. Are you serious? Should it even matter as to which injury was worse? It cut their.seasons short. I know you don't think Bryant played the whole season on a torn Achilles do you?

[GIF REACTION]

Oh my God. You're not even trying to argue anything. Do you even have a valid point? You're just keeping this going around in circles because you don't want to look like you've lost.... Which you have.

I will go over it again for you.

Michael Jeffery Jordan played against zones and zone principles in college. The 3 in the key rule was brought into the college game in the 1930's. Michael Jefferey Jordan could speak on zones and how it would affect his game BECAUSE he played in them in college. The 3 in the key rule was the only defensive regulation left over from the illegal defense guidelines which was scrapped in 2001. Stop saying this "True zones" bullshit. Jordan played against zones in college, and thus that was why he was commenting on zones in the NBA.

Get educated.

[riseagainst]

Oh my God. You're not even trying to argue anything. Do you even have a valid point? You're just keeping this going around in circles because you don't want to look like you've lost.... Which you have.

I will go over it again for you.

Michael Jeffery Jordan played against zones and zone principles in college. The 3 in the key rule was brought into the college game in the 1930's. Michael Jefferey Jordan could speak on zones and how it would affect his game BECAUSE he played in them in college. The 3 in the key rule was the only defensive regulation left over from the illegal defense guidelines which was scrapped in 2001. Stop saying this "True zones" bullshit. Jordan played against zones in college, and thus that was why he was commenting on zones in the NBA.

Get educated.


dam... more ether.

:applause:
:bowdown:

[West-Side]

Let me get something clear right now.

1) I think Jordan is the G.O.A.T.
2) I took a lot of my time to show you guys that looking at raw numbers when comparing Jordan to Kobe, is foolish.
3) Once those numbers were adjusted; Kobe & Jordan's numbers look mightily close.
4) I do think Kobe is a more skilled basketball player; however, Jordan was a better decision maker and more athletic.
5) Jordan was the superior defender, I'm not sure who was the better passer though.
6) I think Kobe playing from 1985 - 1998, he would have dominated the league more so than he did from 1997 - 2015.

If you guys don't agree, go look at my numbers.
One of the most unintelligent things fans tend to do is compare statistics across different era's. I shed light as to why that is.

Compare their numbers to league averages not each other, when you compare two players that played in different era's under different rules and different competition.

There's a natural evolution in preparation, athleticism, strategy and rules; in almost every sport.

[GIF REACTION]

The funny thing is we are not saying that Jordan isn't one of the greatest players ever

Just that we need to acknowledge why truthfully, the game is the way it is today, and comparing stats is not an accurate depiction. These old timers shit on the modern players way too much. It is unwarranted. These are amazing talents, that could easily play in ANY era and any players from any period of time.

[catch24]

Let me get something clear right now.

1) I think Jordan is the G.O.A.T.
2) I took a lot of my time to show you guys that looking at raw numbers when comparing Jordan to Kobe, is foolish.
3) Once those numbers were adjusted; Kobe & Jordan's numbers look mightily close.
4) I do think Kobe is a more skilled basketball player; however, Jordan was a better decision maker and more athletic.
5) Jordan was the superior defender, I'm not sure who was the better passer though.
6) I think Kobe playing from 1985 - 1998, he would have dominated the league more so than he did from 1997 - 2015.

If you guys don't agree, go look at my numbers.
One of the most unintelligent things fans tend to do is compare statistics across different era's. I shed light as to why that is.

Compare their numbers to league averages not each other, when you compare two players that played in different era's under different rules and different competition.

There's a natural evolution in preparation, athleticism, strategy and rules; in almost every sport.

I don't agree with some of this analysis, and neither do some of these ex players and coaches (who participated in BOTH eras), but I can respect this post.

Since you feel that Kobe would be EVEN BETTER in the 80s & 90s, where would you place MJ in today's climate? Maybe a guesstimate on his averages too...

[97 bulls]

Oh my God. You're not even trying to argue anything. Do you even have a valid point? You're just keeping this going around in circles because you don't want to look like you've lost.... Which you have.

I will go over it again for you.

Michael Jeffery Jordan played against zones and zone principles in college. The 3 in the key rule was brought into the college game in the 1930's. Michael Jefferey Jordan could speak on zones and how it would affect his game BECAUSE he played in them in college. The 3 in the key rule was the only defensive regulation left over from the illegal defense guidelines which was scrapped in 2001. Stop saying this "True zones" bullshit. Jordan played against zones in college, and thus that was why he was commenting on zones in the NBA.

Get educated.
Lol. But he NEVER PLAYED AGAINST THE TYPE IF ZONE THE NBA IMPLEMENTED!!!!&&&. SO WHAT DOES IT MATTER??????!!!&&&&&&!!!!! He wasn't referring to a "ZONE" where no one can camp in the lane regardless of where his man is in relation to the paint.

[West-Side]

I don't agree with some of this analysis, and neither do some of these ex players and coaches (who participated in BOTH eras), but I can respect this post.

Since you feel that Kobe would be EVEN BETTER in the 80s & 90s, where would you place MJ in today's climate? Maybe a guesstimate on his averages too...

He'd be better than Kobe, but his averages would be as high.
I'd say if Kobe shot .486 from 2PT% and had 1.300 PPS; I'd say Jordan realistically would be around .500 from 2PT% and 1.320 PPS.

Just an educated estimate.

[97 bulls]

Let me get something clear right now.

1) I think Jordan is the G.O.A.T.
2) I took a lot of my time to show you guys that looking at raw numbers when comparing Jordan to Kobe, is foolish.
3) Once those numbers were adjusted; Kobe & Jordan's numbers look mightily close.
4) I do think Kobe is a more skilled basketball player; however, Jordan was a better decision maker and more athletic.
5) Jordan was the superior defender, I'm not sure who was the better passer though.
6) I think Kobe playing from 1985 - 1998, he would have dominated the league more so than he did from 1997 - 2015.

If you guys don't agree, go look at my numbers.
One of the most unintelligent things fans tend to do is compare statistics across different era's. I shed light as to why that is.

Compare their numbers to league averages not each other, when you compare two players that played in different era's under different rules and different competition.

There's a natural evolution in preparation, athleticism, strategy and rules; in almost every sport.
I can't say I disagree with anything but point number 6. The main difference between Jorran and Bryant is that Jordan was a better atathlete, better defender, and had much better shot selection. I've alaways felt Bryant never shot 50% because he took too many bad shots far too often. I mean hiw many times would Bryant come down and chuck a king three with a hand in his face early in the shot clock? Or go 1 on 5?

[GIF REACTION]

Just stop. You are in denial.

College ball MJ played in: Only restriction was 3 in the key

Post 2001 NBA MJ was referring to in the article: Only restriction is 3 in the key

Literally any other form of defense goes

Stop

[Showtime80']

Natural evolution my a!! Check out the top 10 MVP voting from 1987 or 88 and compare them to today and the 80's blows today's bums out of the water!
Look at the top 10 teams as well, where's the evolution because I sure as hell don't see it. Last years Cavs and Hawks would've been 7th or 8th seeds back in 1988!!!

People forget that Kobe actually played in the so called "ultra easy illegal defense era" from 1996 to 2001 and guess what, he averaged 18 ppg on 46% FG playing basically one on one basketball thanks to having the most dominant center in the history of the league in his prime!!! Why couldn't Kobe at least by his third year even approach Jordan's efficiency?!?

Kobe would've NEVER been as efficient as Mike, not in the 1950's, 70's, 80's, 90's or 2000's! Not happening.

Steve frigging Nash, a guy that would've barely been a top 20 player back in the 80's won two MVP's in this so called "uber athletic zone era". Now that is pathetic!

Solid fundamentals, basic skills and hog IQ will beat superior athleticism EVERY time and the 80's generation of players had those thing ten fold when compared to the inefficient athletic nuckle heads you have now,

Today's player are not as efficient to those of the past because frankly their just not as good! That's what putting a prime on athleticism over everything else gets you

[97 bulls]

Just stop. You are in denial.

College ball MJ played in: Only restriction was 3 in the key

Post 2001 NBA MJ was referring to in the article: Only restriction is 3 in the key

Literally any other form of defense goes

Stop
Lol only? That's a pretty big difference in my opinion. You basically eliminate a players ability to attack the rim and force them to shoot the three or a long shot.

[Trollsmasher]

Natural evolution my a!! Check out the top 10 MVP voting from 1987 or 88 and compare them to today and the 80's blows today's bums out of the water!
Look at the top 10 teams as well, where's the evolution because I sure as hell don't see it. Last years Cavs and Hawks would've been 7th or 8th seeds back in 1988!!!

People forget that Kobe actually played in the so called "ultra easy illegal defense era" from 1996 to 2001 and guess what, he averaged 18 ppg on 46% FG playing basically one on one basketball thanks to having the most dominant center in the history of the league in his prime!!! Why couldn't Kobe at least by his third year even approach Jordan's efficiency?!?

Kobe would've NEVER been as efficient as Mike, not in the 1950's, 70's, 80's, 90's or 2000's! Not happening.

Steve frigging Nash, a guy that would've barely been a top 20 player back in the 80's won two MVP's in this so called "uber athletic zone era". Now that is pathetic!

Solid fundamentals, basic skills and hog IQ will beat superior athleticism EVERY time and the 80's generation of players had those thing ten fold when compared to the inefficient athletic nuckle heads you have now,

Today's player are not as efficient to those of the past because frankly their just not as good! That's what putting a prime on athleticism over everything else gets you
what is it then?

[Showtime80']

Exactly what I wrote.

Basically a poor man's John Stockton or Mark Price was able to RULE the league just by fundamentals and skills over athleticism!

Simple enough?

[GIF REACTION]

Jordan stans are literally the worst. Worse than Wilt stans.

[juju151111]

Just stop. You are in denial.

College ball MJ played in: Only restriction was 3 in the key

Post 2001 NBA MJ was referring to in the article: Only restriction is 3 in the key

Literally any other form of defense goes

Stop
What happened with tmac. Didn't tmac complain too? Why he lead the league in scoring right after. Why did Kobe say the 90s were harder. Mj says they would be less highlights And superstars. He and therest of the people were clearly wrong.

[juju151111]

He'd be better than Kobe, but his averages would be as high.
I'd say if Kobe shot .486 from 2PT% and had 1.300 PPS; I'd say Jordan realistically would be around .500 from 2PT% and 1.320 PPS.

Just an educated estimate.
My midrange is superior. He was shooting 49% from midrange in 97 at 34.

[Hey Yo]

What happened with tmac. Didn't tmac complain too? Why he lead the league in scoring right after. Why did Kobe say the 90s were harder. Mj says they would be less highlights And superstars. He and therest of the people were clearly wrong.
Considering Kobe barely played in the 90's, he simply has no right to claim that.

[jstern]

It was an overreaction, but the NBA was publicly trying to make it easier for perimeter players to score. And the numbers show that. Else why would so many guards have career years after hand checking was taken. Teams hardly use zone, and it's not a real zone.

[juju151111]

Considering Kobe barely played in the 90's, he simply has no right to claim that.
Exactly players say stupid things all the time. Mj thought highlight plays would stop and no superstars would stop. The very next season Mj and Tmac has more 40+ games then anyone in the league and scoring went up. So Mj and tmac and the rest of the league fears aboutzones were wrong

[GIF REACTION]

That's a terrible point

Efficiency, how someone scores, and relative to team success needs to be addressed.

[97 bulls]

That's a terrible point

Efficiency, how someone scores, and relative to team success needs to be addressed.
Are you responding to my point as to why Jordan is better than Bryant? Cuz if so please. Lets address it

[Rose'sACL]

It was an overreaction, but the NBA was publicly trying to make it easier for perimeter players to score. And the numbers show that. Else why would so many guards have career years after hand checking was taken. Teams hardly use zone, and it's not a real zone.
if i remember, most players had great spike for one or 2 season in 2005, 2006 and then refs got used to the rules which brought back down the individual scoring.

[GIF REACTION]

Are you responding to my point as to why Jordan is better than Bryant? Cuz if so please. Lets address it
No to the post above me

Jordan is better than Kobe

More athletic
Bigger hands
More disciplined

Only thing Kobe has over him is perhaps shooting just a little, and craftiness, which although is good, doesn't mean he was a better scorer or post player. Just that he could pull off remarkable feats that would be considered low IQ basketball, which connects to the discipline aspect and how Jordan would play more within the realms of his team.

[juju151111]

That's a terrible point

Efficiency, how someone scores, and relative to team success needs to be addressed.
Mj was leading his team to a winning record in 02 and his 2nd best player rip Hamilton missed most of the start of the season. They're defense declined along with the whole team because MJ got injured. Mj was the only player along with tmac averaging those numbers on the perimeter before he got injured. Basically your new era defense didn't do anything.

[eliteballer]

:applause: :applause:

[sekachu]

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2001-04-01/sports/0104010375_1_defense-recommendations-nba

Well, that settles that. Don't even try donald. Michael said it himself. It's over.




Zone defense rarely used because it only help to stop the star player(not entirely able to stop quick player like wade, westbrook or rose) but can't win the game. Plus MJ probably humble speaking lol.

[chips93]

3 days later, at nearly 39 years of age, Jordan drops 51 on this same team.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ye-0ghhY7uw

Zone defense :oldlol:

hes the goat

this doesnt negate what he said himself

[warriorfan]

Natural evolution my a!! Check out the top 10 MVP voting from 1987 or 88 and compare them to today and the 80's blows today's bums out of the water!
Look at the top 10 teams as well, where's the evolution because I sure as hell don't see it. Last years Cavs and Hawks would've been 7th or 8th seeds back in 1988!!!

People forget that Kobe actually played in the so called "ultra easy illegal defense era" from 1996 to 2001 and guess what, he averaged 18 ppg on 46% FG playing basically one on one basketball thanks to having the most dominant center in the history of the league in his prime!!! Why couldn't Kobe at least by his third year even approach Jordan's efficiency?!?

Kobe would've NEVER been as efficient as Mike, not in the 1950's, 70's, 80's, 90's or 2000's! Not happening.

Steve frigging Nash, a guy that would've barely been a top 20 player back in the 80's won two MVP's in this so called "uber athletic zone era". Now that is pathetic!

Solid fundamentals, basic skills and hog IQ will beat superior athleticism EVERY time and the 80's generation of players had those thing ten fold when compared to the inefficient athletic nuckle heads you have now,

Today's player are not as efficient to those of the past because frankly their just not as good! That's what putting a prime on athleticism over everything else gets you

ether

[chips93]

Honestly, I could give a damn what MJ said either way. Anybody's who's actually played ball on some competitive level whether it be high school, college or whatever, knows that a great player will shred a zone any day if the zone is played all day and his teammates have any clue about how to be in the right position. In college, yeah a zone might work the entire game but in the pros? LOL. Yeah ok.

nobody is debating about defending lebron with a full on 2-3 zone, the debate is about using zone principles

loading up on the strong side of the court to send an extra defender at a scorer.

its using zone defensive principles, but closer to man-to-man than zone defense.

[Lebron23]

1998 Jordan would get shutdown by the 2020 Miami Heat Zone defense just like what they did to Tatum and Giannis unless Jordan improves his 3 points range, and passing.

[FireDavidKahn]

If teams were able to play zone defenses, he said, he never would have had the career he did.

Issa wrap bois

https://s.yimg.com/uu/api/res/1.2/IlWIItvgNBnnF.si.uQCuA--~B/aD0yMDAwO3c9MzAwMDtzbT0xO2FwcGlkPXl0YWNoeW9u/https://media-mbst-pub-ue1.s3.amazonaws.com/creatr-images/2020-02/eb77e530-5743-11ea-b7bb-ffb2970dc505

[FireDavidKahn]

1998 Jordan would get shutdown by the 2020 Miami Heat Zone defense just like what they did to Tatum and Giannis unless Jordan improves his 3 points range, and passing.

Really?

Has anyone been able to overcome that zone defense?

Surely someone must have been able to:confusedshrug:

[Axe]

Really?

Has anyone been able to overcome that zone defense?

Surely someone must have been able to:confusedshrug:
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcRftFPEIlO3ZtjoOZVRJj85kOIUx4n NmrV01Q&usqp=CAU

[Spurs m8]

1998 Jordan would get shutdown by the 2020 Miami Heat Zone defense just like what they did to Tatum and Giannis unless Jordan improves his 3 points range, and passing.

Bumping a 5 year old thread.

Dudes been retired nearly 20 years and still lives rent free in your pathetic little head.

You live a miserable life :roll:

[And1AllDay]

This might be the greatest ether this forum has ever seen.
Holy shit. :bowdown: :applause:

http://media.giphy.com/media/NnGGHE0muVqpO/giphy.gif

http://media2.giphy.com/media/dOJt6XZlQw8qQ/giphy.gif

http://media.giphy.com/media/KsgLFgQp7Elj2/giphy.gif

issa wrap

[Lebron23]

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcRftFPEIlO3ZtjoOZVRJj85kOIUx4n NmrV01Q&usqp=CAU

Zone busters

[And1AllDay]

Zone busters

qualification to be a zone buster

-high iq
-elite top passer

mike had none of these :(

bran got both doe

:dancin

[Lebron23]

Bumping a 5 year old thread.

Dudes been retired nearly 20 years and still lives rent free in your pathetic little head.

You live a miserable life :roll:

Keep crying.

[greymatter]

Bumping a 5 year old thread.

Dudes been retired nearly 20 years and still lives rent free in your pathetic little head.

You live a miserable life :roll:

Coming from a loser who's incapable of not littering every Lebron thread out there with his dumbsh1t opinions.

[Round Mound]

The real zone buster was Sir Charles. His game was in between Mid Range and Painted Area. No Player Was Doubled More or Had More Defensive Rotations Than Prime Peak Sir Charles.

[Lebron23]

Straight out of his mouth.