NBA Finals H2H: Ilt Chamberlain vs Willis Reed [Archive] - Message Board Basketball Forum

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Deuce Bigalow

08-24-2015, 10:40 PM

In the two Finals match ups in 1970 and 1973 that both players played in Reed took home the championship and the finals MVP both times. Could I have some analysis on how each played individually?

SouBeachTalents

08-24-2015, 10:44 PM

I made a thread about this game previously, but here's highlights of their Game 7 of the 1970 Finals

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Q3ULtuljME

AirFederer

08-25-2015, 01:26 AM

Expect the Wilt stans to stay away from this thread like Wilt from the basket in Finals

Hamtaro CP3KDKG

08-25-2015, 01:29 AM

ILt was SHOOK when Reed ventured back from the gate. I remember clearly with my own eyes I seen it. Nikka ain't want NONE nadda, he wanted OUT

AirFederer

08-25-2015, 02:40 AM

Wilt (all "365 pounds of him :oldlol: ) when he saw Reed coming back.

http://iluvesports.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Wilt-Chamberlain-vs-Michael-Jordan7.jpg

:eek:

kennethgriffin

08-25-2015, 02:41 AM

i like how in the title it says Ilt instead of Wilt

since he routinely lacked the "W"

but at the same time. he did routinely wilt under pressure

so i can live with either

Asukal

08-25-2015, 02:42 AM

Ilt? :lol :oldlol: :roll:

Hamtaro CP3KDKG

08-25-2015, 02:43 AM

Ilt? :lol :oldlol: :roll:
ILt ChamberofLs

AirFederer

08-25-2015, 02:44 AM

Ilt :lol

http://completept.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/wilt2.jpg

Asukal

08-25-2015, 02:57 AM

Saw this in the net.. :rolleyes:

http://www.azquotes.com/picture-quotes/quote-everything-is-habit-forming-so-make-sure-what-you-do-is-what-you-want-to-be-doing-wilt-chamberlain-51-96-11.jpg

He loved losing very much. :bowdown: :applause:

SouBeachTalents

08-25-2015, 03:24 AM

How many of them had FOUR complete playoffs with 33.2 ppg, 34.7 ppg, 35.0 ppg, and 37 ppg? How many of them had 30+ ppg and 30+ rpg post-season series? How many of them had EIGHT entire playoff runs of 24.7+ rpg? How many of them played in 29 post-season series, and outrebounded their opposing starting center in all 29 of them (and some by unfathomable margins)? How many of them had SIX playoff series of 28+ ppg and 23 rpg? How many of them had FOUR playoff series in which they scored 37 ppg, 37 ppg, 39 ppg and 39 ppg? How many of them had EIGHT playoff runs of 20+ ppg and 20+ rpg? How many of them had THIRTEEN post-seasons in which they averaged 20+ rpg? How many of them had FOUR 50+ point games? How many of them had THREE 50+ point games in "elimination" games? And how many of them had FIVE 40+ point games in "elimination" games, including a 45 point game in a Finals? How many of them played in 23 "elimination" games, and averaged 31.1 ppg, and shot .540 from the field in them?

And, as I said before, Chamberlain faced RUSSELL EIGHT times, and all but one were either in the first, or the second round. Why is that important? Because MJ's scoring and efficiecny took a nose-dive against the "Bad Boys" in his FOUR straight playoff series against them. Shaq's scoring and efficiency took a huge hit when he battled the Spurs in his FIVE playoff series between '99 and '04. And a peak Kareem's dropped dramatically in his FIVE playoff series against an old Wilt and an aging Thurmond. STEEP decline. Or how about Kobe in his Finals? His FG%'s dropped like the Zeppelin, ...and as bad they were in those series, they were FAR worse in the biggest games of them.

And how many of them shredded their knee, had major surgery, came back way ahead of schedule, and then averaged 12.7 ppg, 6.0 rpg, and shot .500 in their regular season games, post-surgery...and then went on to have a seven game Finals of 23.2 ppg, 24.1 rpg, and on a .625 eFG%, which included a "must win" game six of 45 points, on 20-27 FG/FGA, with 27 rebounds? How many other players basically raised their level of play in a Finals by over 10 ppg, 18 rpg, and 12% from the field?

How many of them ended a Dynasty's eight year title run, and in a resounding fashion...all while absolutely crushing the architect? How many of them ended what was supposed to be a certain dynasty for years to come, before it ever got off the ground?

And keep in mind that Wilt's TEAM's lost to the eventual champion in TEN of his 13 post-seasons. At least he had an excuse when they were losing to the Celtics SEVEN times, or the '70 Knicks, or the '71 Bucks. How about Shaq getting swept six times, and playing poorly against Ostertag in a 4-1 series blowout loss? Or Bird losing with HCA SEVEN times, including being swept by an under-dog Bucks team? Or the great Hakeem losing in the first round EIGHT times, and to opposing centers like Eaton, Thompson, AC Green, and Oliver Miller?

Or had Wilt played in an era with pure crap teams making the playoffs, his 62-63 Warriors probably would have qualified in a season in which Chamberlain averaged 44.8 ppg on .528 shooting. Oh, and give Wilt a consistent 3-4 playoff rounds every season, much as the other HOF players would have later on, and he likely would have scored much more.

I have said it before, but had Wilt played in the Western Conference in his entire seven "scoring seasons", and he likely would hold every playoff scoring record. Why? Because Russell used to kill the Lakers in those years, and as great as Russell was against them, Chamberlain was FAR more dominant. From '62 thru '66, when Russell put up his best post-season series of his career against LA...Chamberlain had entire seasons, covering between nine and 12 games, in which he averaged 51.6 ppg, 48.6 ppg, 44.3 ppg, 29.9 ppg, and 40.8 ppg against the Lakers. Hell, Wilt had SIX games of 60+ against LA, including TWO of 70+ in that span. As it was, in his one post-season in the Western Conference, he annihilated the Hawks with a seven game series of 39 ppg, 23 rpg, and on a .559 FG% (in a post-season NBA that averaged 106 ppg on a .420 eFG%.)

And in the decade of the 60's, Chamberlain faced Russell and Thurmond (just ask KAJ about Nate), TEN times in his 18 playoff series...and he STILL averaged 26.4 ppg in all eighteen series. Take those two out of it, and his he would have scored 31 ppg in that span.

Nor do they understand the other factors, either. When Hakeem was getting bounced from the first round, it was often by some scrub center. When Chamberlain was getting eliminated in the post-season, it was by HOF-laden teams like the Celtic dynasty, or both the '70 and (especially) the '73 Knicks, or what most "experts" believed to be, at the time, the next great dynasty in the '71 Bucks...and most all of them had a HOF center.

And they only look at Wilt's numbers, and never mention Chamberlain holding Johnny Kerr to FG%'s of .376 and .296; or outshooting Russell by margins of .468 to .399, 500 to .397, .517 to .386, .555 to .447, and .556 to .358; or outshooting Thurmond by margins of .500 to .392, .560 to .343, and .611 to .373; or outshooting Bellamy by a .584 to .421 margin (in a season in which Bellamy shot .541); or holding a peak KAJ to two series of .481 and .457 (in years in which Kareem shot .577 and .574 against the NBA.)

Or that Wilt played in 29 post-season series, and was never outrebounded by an opposing starting center in any of them; which included outrebounding Lucas by a 23.2 to 9.8 margin; Thurmond by margins of 23.5 to 19.5 rpg, and 23.6 to 17.2 rpg; Reed by margins of 18.6 to 9.2 rpg, and 24.1 to 10.5 rpg; Bellamy by margins of 22.0 to 15.8 rpg, and 24.2 to 16.0 rpg; or the great Russell by margins of 30.2 to 25.0; 31.4 to 25.3, and 32.0 to 23.4 rpg.

And, only the "Wilt-bashers" would consider a "scoring Wilt", who averaged 32.8 ppg, 26.7 rpg, and shot .505 (in post-season leagues that shot .420 on average), as a "declining" Wilt. Oh, and in those 52 games, he faced RUSSELL in 30 of them. Again, had MJ faced the "Bad Boys' in 60% of his playoff games; or Shaq faced the Spurs in 60% of his playoff games; or Kareem faced Nate and Wilt in 60% of his playoff games...and their overall numbers would have looked far worse.

A "scoring" Wilt who put up 11 40+ point games in those 52 games, five of which came against Russell. Oh, and included were FOUR 50+ point games (three of which were in "elimination games", including one against Russell.)

Or a Chamberlain, in the first half of his career, averaged 30.4 ppg, 27.0 rpg, 4.5 apg, and shot .515 from the field (again, in post-seasons in which the league shot around .425), covering 67 games (35 of which came against Russell, and six of which were against Thurmond)...COMBINED.

Think about that...in his first 67 playoff games, Wilt basically averaged a 30-27-5 .515 FG% game. Now, give me the list of the all-time greats who even had ONE playoff SERIES with those numbers. Hell, you would be hard-pressed to find another "GOAT" with a SINGLE playoff GAME with that stat-line, much less someone who faced two of the greatest defensive centers of all-time in over 60% of those games.

Carried two teams that went 68-13 and 69-13 to two titles. Anchored two other 60+ win teams. Carried another team, that had gone 40-40 the year before, to the best record in the league, all while leading the leading in scoring, rebounding, and FG%.

Lost five game seven's to the eventual champion, including FOUR by margins of 2, 1, 4, and 2 points, and was the best player on the floor in three of them, and the best center on the floor in all four of them.

Averaged 37 ppg in the ONE series in which his team lost in the post-season that did not go on to win a championship...and his teammates collectively shot .332 in that series.

Was traded away by one team that would go 7-36 without him, to a team that had gone 34-46 the year before. He then single-handedly carried that 40-40 team to a game seven, one point loss, against the 62-18 HOF-laden Celtics...in a series in which he completely trashed Russell, and averaged 30 ppg, 31 rpg, and shot .555 from the field in.

Averaged 33 ppg in his post-seasons in his "scoring prime". And in those 52 games, 30 of which were against Russell, he had 11 games of 40+ points (five of which were in elimination games, and four of 50+, (three of which came in "must-win" games.)

Only played in one Final in his scoring season, and put up a 29 ppg, 28 rpg, .517 series against Russell. Overall, he badly outscored his opposing starting centers in his six Finals, crushed them on the glass in those six Finals, and outshot them by staggering FG%'s in every series.

And in his 23 post-season "elimination games" this "choker" put up averages of 31.1 ppg, 26.0 rpg, adnd shot .540 from the floor (or well over 10% higher than the post-season league eFG% in that same span.) Aside from Lebron, at 31.9 ppg, and MJ, at 31.3 ppg, he was the highest "elimination game" scorer in post-season history. And he was certainly more dominant than either, as well.

Had a staggering 7-2 margin over another "GOAT", Russell, in First-Team All-NBA selections, in their ten seasons in the league together, and was voted that by the sportswriters who actually watched them play AT THE TIME, (and not some nobody journalist that no one ever heard of then, or since)... (and who, to my knowledge, Chamberlain himself, never mentioned in any of his books.)

Most dominant post-season post-season run in NBA history in his "scoring seasons"...averaged 30.4 ppg, 27.0 rpg, 4.5 apg, likely 8+ bpg, and shot .515 from the field (in post-seasons that shot about .420 in that same span)...in his 67 playoff games...COMBINED. All while dramatically outscoring his HOF peers, holding those same HOF centers to perhaps as much as 10% below their normal regular season FG%'s, and just crushing them all on the glass.

AirFederer

08-25-2015, 03:25 AM

riseagainst

08-25-2015, 02:55 PM

Ilt

:roll:

can't believe nobody has thought of this before.

Spurs5Rings2014

08-25-2015, 03:35 PM

Ilt

:roll:

:roll:

:roll:

:roll:

:roll:

:roll:

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Azuras, get that ass here, boy.

Asukal

08-25-2015, 07:57 PM

ILt :applause: :bowdown:

LAZERUSS

08-26-2015, 01:56 AM

#1 - regular season stats head to head vs. playoff stats. Russell's numbers all go up, Wilt's all go down...that is huge.

#2 - Wilt's record in the conference finals and beyond is 48-44, Russell's is 90-53. and Elimination games, Wilt 10-11, Russell 16-2.

#3 - A quote from Bill Bradley - "Wilt played the game as if he had to prove himself to someone who had never seen basketball. He pointed to his statistical achievements as specific measurements of his basketball ability, and they were; but to someone who knows basketball they are, if not irrelevant certainly nonessential. The point of the game is not how the individual does, but rather the team wins."

From Bill Bradley

"I have the impression that Wilt might have been more secure with losing. In defeat, after carefully covering himself with allusions to his accomplishments, he could be magnanimous."

From Butch Van Breda Kolf (who coached Wilt)

"The difference between Wilt and Russell was this: Russell would ask, what do I need to do to make my team mates better? Then he'd do it. Wilt honestly thought the best way for his team to win was for him to be in the best possible setting. He'd ask, What's the best situation for me?"

From Jerry Lucas

"Wilt was too consumed with records: being the first to lead the league in assists, or to set a record for field goal percentage. He'd accomplish one goal, then go on to another. Russell would only ask one question: "What can I do to make us win"

Jerry West summing it up best

"I don't want to rap Wilt because I believe only Russell was better, and I really respect what Wilt did. But I have to say, he wouldn't adjust to you, you had to adjust to him."

http://cdn-jpg.si.com/sites/default/files/2015/03/03/wilt2.jpg

1. Wilt's playoff numbers against Russell declined slightly from his career regular season carpet-bombings of Russell, to just merely overwhelming Russell in their eight post-season H2H series. He just crushed Russell in scoring, rebounding, and FG% in EVERY one of their eight post-season H2H series.

2. Wilt carried pathetic rosters to the Conference Finals. In his rookie season, he took a LAST PLACE team to a 49-26 record, and past the Nats in the first round, and into the EDF's. And just murdered Russell in that series with a 31-27 .500 FG% (in a post-season NBA that shot .403.)

In his '62 season, he took essentially that SAME roster, now only older and worse, to a 49-31 record, and single-handedly took his team to a game seven, two point loss, against Russell's far superior 60-20 Celtics, in a series in which he averaged 33-27 against Russell.

In his '64 season, he carried a roster that had gone 31-49 the year before, to a 48-32 record. And in the WDF's, he single-handedly led them past a much more talented Hawks team, with a seven game series of 39-23 .559 FG% (in a post-season that averaged 105.8 ppg on a .420 FG%.) And in the Finals, he slaughtered Russell, and his EIGHT HOF teammates, to the tune of a 29-28 .517 FG% Finals...albeit, in a 4-1 series loss (but the last two games were decided in the waing seconds.)

In his '65 season, he took a team that had gone 34-46 the year before, without him, and missed the playoffs, to a 40-40 record, and a first round romp over Oscar's stacked 48-32 Royals. And in the EDF's, he single-handedly carried that bottom-feeding roster to a game seven, one point loss, against a Celtic team that had gone 62-18, and was at it's apex of it's dynasty. And all Wilt could do in that series, was average 30.1 ppg, 31.4 rpg, and shoot .555 from the field (in a post-season NBA that shot .429 overall.)

Of course, when he FINALLY had a supporting cast that was the equal of Russell's, he led the Sixers to a 68-13 record, and a blowout of the eight-time defending champions, in a series in which he obliterated Russell in every facet of the game.

Oh, and Wilt's record in elimination games was 12-11 (not 10-11), and here were his numbers...

Wilt's numbers in those 23 games...13 of which came against HOF starting centers.

12-11 W-L record

31.1 ppg (Regular season career average was 30.1 ppg)
26.1 rpg (Regular season career average was 22.9 rpg)
3.4 apg (Regular season career average was 4.4 apg)
.540 FG% (Regular season career average was .540 FG%)

3 games of 50+ points (BTW, the ONLY three 50+ point games by a "GOAT" candidate in post-season history.)

5 games of 40+ points (including a Finals 40+ elimination game)

13 games of 30+ points

6 games of 30+ rebounds

20 games of 20+ rebounds

BTW, that 31.1 ppg is just behind Lebron's 31.8 and MJ's 31.3 ppg in terms of GOAT scoring in "must-win" games.

Furthermore, here were Wilt's numbers in his 37 "must-win" and "series clinching" post-season games...

W-L : 24-13

Here were Wilt's averages in those 37 games:

29.5 ppg

26.1 rpg

4.2 apg (missing one game)

.546 FG% (in post-seasons that shot about .440 on average in that span.)

Keep in mind that 24 of those 37 games came after his "scoring seasons" (59-60 thru 65-66)

Using quotes from Jerry Lucas?

:roll: :roll: :roll:

http://www.si.com/vault/1973/10/08/615756/eeginnprst-ejrry-aclsu

"Lucas gets the easy defensive rebounds," Boston Coach Tom Heinsohn scoffed two years ago. "He cheats by sloughing off his man. He gets 18 rebounds but his man gets 35 points." And Los Angeles' Jerry West said, "Lucas can't move and plays no defense. Forget the statistics."

As for Bradley's comments...how about those from his long-time teammate, and far greater player, Walt Frazier...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMvmsCqRAiI

And how about these quotes from Wilt's peers...

http://www.nba.com/history/wilt_appreciation.html

Jerry West...

"He was the most unbelievable center to ever play the game in terms of domination and intimidation. There's no one that's ever played the game better than Wilt Chamberlain. This was a man for all ages."

Bill Russell

"Nobody seems to appreciate what an incredible player Wilt was," Russell said at 1997 All-Star Game when the league named and honored its 50 greatest players. "He was the best player of all time because he dominated the floor like nobody else ever could. To be that big and that athletic was special."

http://lakersblog.latimes.com/lakersblog/2011/05/kareem-abdul-jabbar-questions-scottie-pippens-argument-that-lebron-james-may-be-the-greatest-player-.html

Kareem

Dear Scottie,

I have nothing but respect for you my friend as an athlete and knowledgeable basketball mind. But you are way off in your assessment of who is the greatest player of all time and the greatest scorer of all time. Your comments are off because of your limited perspective. You obviously never saw Wilt Chamberlain play who undoubtedly was the greatest scorer this game has ever known. When did MJ ever average 50.4 points per game plus 25.7 rebounds? (Wilt in the 1962 season when blocked shot statistics were not kept). We will never accurately know how many shots Wilt blocked. Oh, by the way in 1967 and 68, Wilt was a league leader in assists. Did MJ ever score 100 points in a game? How many times did MJ score more than 60 points in a game? MJ led the league in scoring in consecutive seasons for 10 years but he did this in an NBA that eventually expanded into 30 teams vs. when Wilt played and there were only 8 teams.

Every team had the opportunity to amass a solid nucleus. Only the cream of the basketball world got to play then. So MJ has to be appraised in perspective. His incredible athletic ability, charisma and leadership on the court helped to make basketball popular around the world -- no question about that. But in terms of greatness, MJ has to take a backseat to The Stilt.

Larry Bird

http://www.nba.com/2012/history/features/05/20/season-of-giants-wilt-ahead-of-time/index.html

When the topic of all-time greatest player was once raised, a fellow named Larry Bird didn't hesitate. "Let me tell you something," Bird said. "For a while, they were saying that I was the greatest. And before me, it was Magic who was the greatest. And then it's Michael's turn. But open up the record book and it will be obvious who the greatest is."

How about Rick Barry? In two separate interviews (one in the 70's, and the other in the last couple of years)...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSTt_TxoFVo

Next...

LAZERUSS

08-26-2015, 02:11 AM

As for OP...

Yes, let's conveniently leave out the fact that Chamberlain was only four months removed from major knee surgery in that Finals. Or the fact that his 46-36 Lakers were under-dogs to a HOF-laden 60-22 Knicks team that had HCA (and needed a game seven to win the series.)

OK, in the first four games of the '70 Finals, a one-legged Wilt battled a much heathier (and peak) Reed to a DRAW. In those four games, the two teams split 2-2. And in the two Laker wins, Wilt held a shot-jacking Reed to 22-52 shooting (.423), while outrebounding him in those two games by a 49-27 margin.

And from that point on, in game's five thru seven...Wilt was the BEST player on the floor.

Reed missed game six, three quarters of game five (and they were down double-digits when he left with HIS injury), and nearly half of game seven. In those three games, Wilt outscored Reed by an 88-11 margin; outrebounded Reed by a 71-3 margin; and outshot Reed by a 39-55 to 4-10 margin (.709 to .400.)

For the series, all a one-legged Chamberlain could do was average 23.2 ppg, 24.1 rpg, and shoot .625 from the field.

LAZERUSS

08-26-2015, 02:31 AM

How about a HEALTHY Chamberlain, going up against a PEAK Reed just the season before ('68-69)?

Willis Reed vs Wilt in 2 regular season H2H's:

(Reed took over the center position after Bellamy was traded in mid-season)

Reed: 20.0 ppg, 9.5 rpg, 3.0 apg, .459 FG%
Wilt: 28.0 ppg, 22.0 rpg, 4.0 apg, .688 FG%.

Or how about a prime "scoring" Wilt against Reed in 12 regular season H2H's in the '64-65 season?

64-65.

Overall, here were the HOF centers numbers against the league:

Bellamy: 24.8 ppg, 14.6 rpg, and .509 FG%.
Russell: 14.1 ppg, 24.1 rpg (led league), 4.7 apg, and .438 FG%.
Reed: 19.5 ppg, 14.7 rpg, and a .432 FG%.

Nate (full season): 16.5 ppg, 18.1 rpg, .419 FG%.
Nate (as a starter- 40 games): 20.9 ppg 24.9 rpg (known 17 games), no known FG% games.

Wilt (with SF...38 games): 38.9 ppg, 23.5 rpg, 3.1 apg, .499 FG%.
Wilt (with Phil... 35 games): 30.1 ppg, 22.3 rpg, 3.8 apg, .528 FG%.
Wilt (full season ...73 games): 34.7 ppg, 22.9 prg, 3.4 apg, .510 FG%.

BTW, the NBA averaged 110.6 ppg on an eFG% of .426. And in the post-season, it averaged 113.7 ppg on an eFG% of .429.

Reed's stats vs the other HOF centers:

Thurmond in 3 H2H's: 9.7 ppg, no known rpg, and no known FG%s.
Russell in 9 H2H's: 19.7 ppg, 18.6 rpg, no known FG%'s.
Bellamy in 10 H2H's: 21.2 ppg, 17.0 rpg (3 known games) and no known FG%.
Wilt in 12 H2H's: 22.9 ppg, 17.0 rpg (2 known H2H's), .333 FG% (1 known game.).

Reed had games of 38 and 35 points against Wilt. His high game against Russell was 25 points. His high game against Nate was only 15 points. And his high game against Bellamy was 31.

Bellamy's stats vs. the other HOF centers:

Thurmond in 5 H2H's: 17.4 ppg, 13.0 rpg (3 known games), no known FG%'s.
Reed in 10 H2H's: 22.6 ppg, 14.0 rpg (only 1 known game), no known FG%'s.
Russell in 9 H2H's: 25.8 ppg, 15.8 rpg (5 known games), no known FG%'s.
Wilt in 9 H2H's: 26.3 ppg, 14.1 rpg (7 known games), no known FG%'s.

Bellamy's high scoring game against Russell was 45 points. He also had two other 32 point games against him. He had games of 30 and 31 points against Reed. He had a 30 point game against Nate (his next highest was 20.) And his high games against Wilt were 37, 33, 32, and 31 points.

Thurmond's stats against the other HOF centers:

Reed in 3 H2H's: 20.0 ppg, 30.0 rpg (1 known game), no known FG%'s.
Bellamy in 5 H2H's: 22.0 ppg, 29.7 rpg (3 known games), no known FG%'s.
Russell in 4 H2H's: 22.0 ppg, 22.7 rpg (3 known games), no known FG%'s.
Wilt in 3 H2H's: 18.7 ppg, 20.0 rpg (1 known game), no known FG%'s.

Thurmond had a monster 30-32 game against Bellamy, as well as another 28-37 game against him. He had a 21-30 game against Reed, and a high point game of 22 points against him. He had games of 26-20, 22-19, and 21-29 against Russell in their four H2H's. And against Wilt he had a 25-20 game.

Russell vs. the other HOF centers:

Nate in 4 H2H's: 12.0 ppg, 32.7 rpg (3 known games), .333 FG% (1 known)
Reed in 9 H2H's: 16.0 ppg, 21.1 rpg (8 known), .547 FG% (6 known games)
Bellamy in 9 H2H's: 12.9 ppg, 19.7 rpg, .475 FG% (5 known games.)
Wilt in 11 reg H2H's: 12.6 ppg, 22.2 rpg, 4.6 apg, .281 FG% (10 known)

Russell had games of 20-25, 22-30, 24-23, and 24-24 against Reed (and another with 38 rebounds.) Russell had one game against Nate of 20-41 (yes 41 rebounds.) He had games of 22-17 and 22-22 against Bellamy. And against Wilt, Russell's high point game was 18, and his high rebounding game was 27.

And continuing with the Laker H2H's for both Russell and Wilt:

Russell against LA in 10 reg H2H's: 15.9 ppg, 26.7 rpg, .436 FG% (9 known)
Russell vs. LA in 5 Finals games: 17.8 ppg, 25.0 rpg, .702 FG% (yes .702.)

Russell vs, Wilt in 7 EDF games:
15.6 ppg, 25.1 rpg, 6.7 apg, .447 FG%.

Russell's high point game in the EDF"s against Wilt was 22 points. His high rebounding game was 32.

Wilt vs. the other HOF centers:

Bellamy in 9 H2H's: 38.3 ppg, 21.7 rpg, .547 FG% (8 known games.)
Reed in 12 H2H's: 38.6 ppg, 21.2 rpg, .532 FG% (8 known games.)
Russell in 11 reg H2H's: 25.4 ppg, 26.5 rpg, 4.2 apg, .473 FG%
Nate in 3 H2H's: 26.7 ppg, 26.3 rpg, .500 FG%.

Chamberlain had a horrible 7-21 FG/FGA game against Nate, but historically, that was an aberration. He also had a 34-26 game, on 13-20 FG/FGA against him, as well. Overall, in their 3 H2H's, Wilt held a 3-0 scoring margin, and a 1-0 margin in their only known rebounding H2H.

Wilt just shelled Reed in the majority of their 12 H2H's. He outscored him 11-1, including margins of 37-22, 29-12, 46-25, 52-23, 41-8, and 58-28. He also had rebounding games of 28, 32, and 32 against Reed.

Wilt continued his plastering of Bellamy, too. He held a 7-2 scoring margin edge, including margins of 51-33, 43-25, 56-37, 40-16, and 53-20. Chamberlain also held a 6-1 edge in their known rebounding H2H's, which included margins of 29-16, and 28-10.

The Chamberlain-Russell duels were continuing to become more-and-more one-sided, as well. In their 11 regular season H2H's, Chamberlain enjoyed a 10-1 scoring edge (and Russell's lone "win" was 11-8 in a game in which Wilt left injured.) Included were margins of 24-6, 31-7, and 37-16. Wilt also outrebounded Russell by an 8-3 margin, which included margins of 32-24, 26-17, 34-17, and 43-26. And again, look at Russell's known FG%... an unfathomable .281 in the known 10 of their 11 season H2H's (and in one game Russell shot an unbelievable 0-14!)!

And, Wilt vs. LA in 8 H2H games:

29.9 ppg, 22.4 rpg, and on a .476 FG%.

This was Wilt's worst season against the Lakers to date, but he still put up three 40+ games (with a high of 41 points.)

Wilt vs Russell in 7 EDF's games:

30.1 ppg, 31.4 rpg, 3.3 apg, and a .555 eFG%.

Wilt outscored Russell in all 7 games, including margins of 30-15, 34-18, 30-12, 30-12, and 33-11. Chamberlain also held a 5-2 margin in rebounding H2H's in that post-season, including margins of 37-26, and 39-16.

Again...just total domination against four HOF centers.

So, as you can see, Thurmond averaged a near peak HIGH in ppg in that season. His scoring would drop slightly after that when the Warriors adeed rookie Rick Barry and also Jeff Mullins. In terms of pure athleticism...a PEAK Nate played from '65 thru '67. Injuries slowly took a toll after that.

As for his 73-74 season...he was in a state of severe decline. He only played in 65 games, and his overall production took a HUGE drop.

So, the reality was, a prime Nate played from '65 thru '73. And a PEAK Thurmond played from '65 thru '67. And as you and I both know, he came in second in the MVP balloting in the '67 season (and behind Chamberlain.)

BTW, here were Nate's and Wilt's H2H numbers from that '64-65 season, thru their six H2H's in the '65-66 season, and their first two H2H's in the 66-67 season...or first 14 games...

Nate: 16.1 ppg, 18.9 rpg, .356 FG% (4 known games)
Wilt: 28.2 ppg, 26.2 rpg, .514 FG%.

Chamberlain outscored Nate in those 14 games by a 13-1 margin, and outrebounded him by a 12-2 margin. And again, in those 14 games...SIX games of 30+ points, (30, 30, 33, 34, 38, and 45 points), including margins of 30-10, 33-17, 38-15, and 45-13.

Overall, and thru their first 24 h2H's, which covered the '67 Finals...Chamberlain enjoyed a 21-2-1 scoring margin, and an 18-5-1 rebounding margin.

Asukal

08-26-2015, 02:44 AM

^ILt. :rolleyes:

warriorfan

08-26-2015, 02:44 AM

Ilt only knows L's and D's

LAZERUSS

08-26-2015, 02:55 AM

^ILt. :rolleyes:

:roll: :roll: :roll:

MJ without rosters that could win 55+ games without him? A 1-9 playoff record. Never even won a game against Bird in his post-season career. Hell, Dumars owns a 3-1 series margin over Jordan in their playoff H2H's.

How about a prime KAJ in his 10 seasons before MAGIC arrived? TWO Finals, and ONE ring. Hell, he won a ring without playing a clinching game six in the Finals, and another in a Finals in which he averaged 13 ppg, 4 rpg, and shot .414 from the floor (and with a game seven of 4 pts, 3 rebs, 5 PFs, and on 2-7 shooting.)

Bird? Playing alongside HOF-laden rosters his entire career...THREE rings, and seven losses with HCA (and in most of those, subpar, to horrific performances.)

Hakeem? :roll: :roll: :roll:

EIGHT FIRST ROUND EXITS. Could never carry a team to more than 58 wins, and his two rings came in seasons in which the best player in the league took the year off, and then in the other, his teammates overcame a beatdown by Shaq to win the Finals.

Kobe? Arguably the worst Finals performer by a Top-10 player in NBA history.

Shaq? SWEPT SIX times in his post-season career (and nearly two more.) And without Kobe carrying his ass against the Spurs in '01 and '02, he wouldn't have won rings in either season.

Asukal

08-26-2015, 02:58 AM

:roll: :roll: :roll:

MJ without rosters that could win 55+ games without him? A 1-9 playoff record. Never even won a game against Bird in his post-season career. Hell, Dumars owns a 3-1 series margin over Jordan in their playoff H2H's.

How about a prime KAJ in his 10 seasons before MAGIC arrived? TWO Finals, and ONE ring. Hell, he won a ring without playing a clinching game six in the Finals, and another in a Finals in which he averaged 13 ppg, 4 rpg, and shot .414 from the floor (and with a game seven of 4 pts, 3 rebs, 5 PFs, and on 2-7 shooting.)

Bird? Playing alongside HOF-laden rosters his entire career...THREE rings, and seven losses with HCA (and in most of those, subpar, to horrific performances.)

Hakeem? :roll: :roll: :roll:

EIGHT FIRST ROUND EXITS. Could never carry a team to more than 58 wins, and his two rings came in seasons in which the best player in the league took the year off, and then in the other, his teammates overcame a beatdown by Shaq to win the Finals.

Kobe? Arguably the worst Finals performer by a Top-10 player in NBA history.

Shaq? SWEPT SIX times in his post-season career (and nearly two more.) And without Kobe carrying his ass against the Spurs in '01 and '02, he wouldn't have won rings in either season.

shhhhhh becoz..... ILt. :rolleyes:

LAZERUSS

08-26-2015, 02:58 AM

Ilt only knows L's and D's

Oh, and he OWNS the NBA RECORD BOOK, too. In fact, he likely owns THOUSANDS of NBA RECORDS (including MANY in the post-season.)

LAZERUSS

08-26-2015, 02:59 AM

shhhhhh becoz..... ILt. :rolleyes:

Lord Chamberlain.

Asukal

08-26-2015, 03:00 AM

Lord Chamberlain.

lord of losing? :lol

RoundMoundOfReb

08-26-2015, 04:06 AM

Great thread.

warriorfan

08-26-2015, 07:20 AM

Lord Chamberlain.

Ilt Chamberlain, Lord of the L's

AirFederer

08-26-2015, 07:34 AM

Wilt even needed help to keep floating

http://completept.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/wilt2.jpg

KG215

08-26-2015, 08:12 AM

1. Wilt's playoff numbers against Russell declined slightly from his career regular season carpet-bombings of Russell, to just merely overwhelming Russell in their eight post-season H2H series. He just crushed Russell in scoring, rebounding, and FG% in EVERY one of their eight post-season H2H series.

2. Wilt carried pathetic rosters to the Conference Finals. In his rookie season, he took a LAST PLACE team to a 49-26 record, and past the Nats in the first round, and into the EDF's. And just murdered Russell in that series with a 31-27 .500 FG% (in a post-season NBA that shot .403.)

In his '62 season, he took essentially that SAME roster, now only older and worse, to a 49-31 record, and single-handedly took his team to a game seven, two point loss, against Russell's far superior 60-20 Celtics, in a series in which he averaged 33-27 against Russell.

In his '64 season, he carried a roster that had gone 31-49 the year before, to a 48-32 record. And in the WDF's, he single-handedly led them past a much more talented Hawks team, with a seven game series of 39-23 .559 FG% (in a post-season that averaged 105.8 ppg on a .420 FG%.) And in the Finals, he slaughtered Russell, and his EIGHT HOF teammates, to the tune of a 29-28 .517 FG% Finals...albeit, in a 4-1 series loss (but the last two games were decided in the waing seconds.)

In his '65 season, he took a team that had gone 34-46 the year before, without him, and missed the playoffs, to a 40-40 record, and a first round romp over Oscar's stacked 48-32 Royals. And in the EDF's, he single-handedly carried that bottom-feeding roster to a game seven, one point loss, against a Celtic team that had gone 62-18, and was at it's apex of it's dynasty. And all Wilt could do in that series, was average 30.1 ppg, 31.4 rpg, and shoot .555 from the field (in a post-season NBA that shot .429 overall.)

Of course, when he FINALLY had a supporting cast that was the equal of Russell's, he led the Sixers to a 68-13 record, and a blowout of the eight-time defending champions, in a series in which he obliterated Russell in every facet of the game.

Oh, and Wilt's record in elimination games was 12-11 (not 10-11), and here were his numbers...

BTW, that 31.1 ppg is just behind Lebron's 31.8 and MJ's 31.3 ppg in terms of GOAT scoring in "must-win" games.

Furthermore, here were Wilt's numbers in his 37 "must-win" and "series clinching" post-season games...

Using quotes from Jerry Lucas?

:roll: :roll: :roll:

http://www.si.com/vault/1973/10/08/615756/eeginnprst-ejrry-aclsu

As for Bradley's comments...how about those from his long-time teammate, and far greater player, Walt Frazier...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMvmsCqRAiI

And how about these quotes from Wilt's peers...

http://www.nba.com/history/wilt_appreciation.html

Jerry West...

Bill Russell

http://lakersblog.latimes.com/lakersblog/2011/05/kareem-abdul-jabbar-questions-scottie-pippens-argument-that-lebron-james-may-be-the-greatest-player-.html

Kareem

Larry Bird

http://www.nba.com/2012/history/features/05/20/season-of-giants-wilt-ahead-of-time/index.html

How about Rick Barry? In two separate interviews (one in the 70's, and the other in the last couple of years)...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSTt_TxoFVo

Next...

As for OP...

Yes, let's conveniently leave out the fact that Chamberlain was only four months removed from major knee surgery in that Finals. Or the fact that his 46-36 Lakers were under-dogs to a HOF-laden 60-22 Knicks team that had HCA (and needed a game seven to win the series.)

OK, in the first four games of the '70 Finals, a one-legged Wilt battled a much heathier (and peak) Reed to a DRAW. In those four games, the two teams split 2-2. And in the two Laker wins, Wilt held a shot-jacking Reed to 22-52 shooting (.423), while outrebounding him in those two games by a 49-27 margin.

And from that point on, in game's five thru seven...Wilt was the BEST player on the floor.

Reed missed game six, three quarters of game five (and they were down double-digits when he left with HIS injury), and nearly half of game seven. In those three games, Wilt outscored Reed by an 88-11 margin; outrebounded Reed by a 71-3 margin; and outshot Reed by a 39-55 to 4-10 margin (.709 to .400.)

For the series, all a one-legged Chamberlain could do was average 23.2 ppg, 24.1 rpg, and shoot .625 from the field.

How about a HEALTHY Chamberlain, going up against a PEAK Reed just the season before ('68-69)?

Or how about a prime "scoring" Wilt against Reed in 12 regular season H2H's in the '64-65 season?

:roll: :roll: :roll:

MJ without rosters that could win 55+ games without him? A 1-9 playoff record. Never even won a game against Bird in his post-season career. Hell, Dumars owns a 3-1 series margin over Jordan in their playoff H2H's.

How about a prime KAJ in his 10 seasons before MAGIC arrived? TWO Finals, and ONE ring. Hell, he won a ring without playing a clinching game six in the Finals, and another in a Finals in which he averaged 13 ppg, 4 rpg, and shot .414 from the floor (and with a game seven of 4 pts, 3 rebs, 5 PFs, and on 2-7 shooting.)

Bird? Playing alongside HOF-laden rosters his entire career...THREE rings, and seven losses with HCA (and in most of those, subpar, to horrific performances.)

Hakeem? :roll: :roll: :roll:

EIGHT FIRST ROUND EXITS. Could never carry a team to more than 58 wins, and his two rings came in seasons in which the best player in the league took the year off, and then in the other, his teammates overcame a beatdown by Shaq to win the Finals.

Kobe? Arguably the worst Finals performer by a Top-10 player in NBA history.

Shaq? SWEPT SIX times in his post-season career (and nearly two more.) And without Kobe carrying his ass against the Spurs in '01 and '02, he wouldn't have won rings in either season.

Oh, and he OWNS the NBA RECORD BOOK, too. In fact, he likely owns THOUSANDS of NBA RECORDS (including MANY in the post-season.)

Lord Chamberlain.

:roll:

Can't believe it took until page two to start, but there's the jlauber/LAZERUSS meltdown.

aj1987

08-26-2015, 08:35 AM

Lord Chamberlain.
True. L. Chamberlain.

Psileas

08-26-2015, 09:26 AM

:roll:

Can't believe it took until page two to start, but there's the jlauber/LAZERUSS meltdown.

Sad thing is, you find all the trolls that came before, including the OP, normal...

aj1987

08-26-2015, 09:28 AM

Sad thing is, you find all the trolls that came before, including the OP, normal...
Calling a loser and a choker a loser and a choker is trolling? :wtf:

LAZERUSS

08-26-2015, 09:33 AM

Calling a loser and a choker a loser and a choker is trolling? :wtf:

This topic is not about Wade.

You know...the Wade that never even sniffed an MVP in his long and broken down career? The Wade that has more post-season CHOKE JOBS than can be listed on the entire internet.

aj1987

08-26-2015, 10:02 AM

Psileas

08-26-2015, 10:36 AM

This topic is not about Wade.

You know...the Wade that never even sniffed an MVP in his long and broken down career? The Wade that has more post-season CHOKE JOBS than can be listed on the entire internet.

Seriously, look at this crap:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01/gamelog/2013/

These are his statlines when he was as old as 1968 Wilt, and this came in a championship season, so it is supposed to make us feel impressed, lol. Did this guy even have 5 playoff games in this whole postseason as good as Wilt's worst playoff games? 14/2/4, 10/3/4, 10/2/1 and it goes on and on. Compare him to Wilt? These aren't even better than lots of games of Robert Horry - and Horry has more rings than Ade. :oldlol:

aj1987

08-26-2015, 10:48 AM

Seriously, look at this crap:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01/gamelog/2013/

These are his statlines when he was as old as 1968 Wilt, and this came in a championship season, so it is supposed to make us feel impressed, lol. Did this guy even have 5 playoff games in this whole postseason as good as Wilt's worst playoff games? 14/2/4, 10/3/4, 10/2/1 and it goes on and on. Compare him to Wilt? These aren't even better than lots of games of Robert Horry - and Horry has more rings than Ade. :oldlol:
:oldlol:

This dude comparing Chokerlain to Wade? :facepalm

Also, you bringing up stats? Ilt "mental midget" Chokerlain played in the WEAKEST era of all time. The '60's were basically a joke era. Peak Ilt would average probably 20/12/3 on a 15 win team today.

http://i.imgur.com/yZiQFMV.gif

http://s1.postimg.org/w7vqd9ylr/image.jpg

Psileas

08-26-2015, 11:24 AM

aj1987

08-26-2015, 11:26 AM

Compare them? Why the **** would I compare Wilt to someone regularly posting playoff lines of 14/2/4, 10/3/4, 10/2/1 while in his prime? Like I said, Dyane Ade is closer to the likes of Robert Horry than the GOAT.
True. Wade and Horry are clutch AF, while Ilt Chokerlain is the GOAT choker. A better player comparison would be John Starks or Anderson.

sd3035

08-26-2015, 12:09 PM

Loseruss can't find the W in this thread like his boy Ilt

:lol

GimmeThat

08-26-2015, 12:52 PM

on Wilt,

if we were to count Wilt's production during the regular season, with however many teams in the league and create variables as multipliers, we will probably find that yes indeed, him and Russell splitting those MVPs could be made by statistical analysis.

And if we were to look at Wilt's production during the playoff, set variable for the advancement in playoff series, as well as the compounding effect of the same team. I wouldn't be surprised if we learn that his production ends up being equal. If not less than Russell.

How this were to translate into football terms.

While conventionally, transferring the regular season variable into divisional difficulties, just as well as playoff opponents by the combining strength of schedule of the opposing team makes sense.

I wouldn't be surprised that the differentiation between one's team and the opposing team personnel makes better justification. As to the inclusion of weather as argument, I find it better off to include the precision aspect, leave out coaching as an aspect of personnel development, but the knowledge of the game.

we may attribute this to the larger audiences of football, as well as the salary structure.

And if we were to utilize this same formula onto basketball.

we may be left with a quick glimpse of the picture as to the limited differentiation by height and weight at each position in the long run, and in comparison to the salary structure, the ability to draft well also becomes an exposed subject especially if we are on the topic winning playoff games, due to limited options for substitution. In which I wonder, what has been the ideal(average) number for NFL championship teams of players on their playoff rotation where as in the NBA it has been right around 7 and/or 8. As I wonder what the salary numbers for the all star teams would look like if you combined them over the year

I attribute the first part to the lack of the same position on the field all at once at the same time, which draws parallel statement to the specialization in skills (hence big men takes longer to develop, and again, quarterbacks.)

On Wilt vs Willis Reed

I think it could be fun to bring up Wilt's playing minutes. Since Willis Reed have already averaged less minutes per game than Wilt, it probably benefited him in matching up against in this very particular case, Wilt, in the playoff. In the 2 seasons in which Wilt's won the championship, there was a reduction in his scoring output. Which leaves us to wonder, had Wilt been more prone to playing less minutes and having the same output, wouldn't his team had a better chance of winning? I wasn't around during that time to know whether or not the lack of a back up Center on his team was due to cheap ownership or his own personal agenda. But I think this does make the infamous last duel between Russell and Wilt into light as the coach decided to sit Wilt out.

I don't want to say right away that fatigue as a contribution to the lack of success of his playoff production, or even any of his off the court personal life expenditures in which I have zero knowledge of. But even if it is outrageous, I wouldn't be surprised if the big dipper felt that all it takes for him to score is a simple flip. Just as much as the phenomenon of players unable to hit their free-throws during actual game play.

Psileas

08-26-2015, 02:49 PM

aj1987

Cork it, troll. You've been made to look like a fool way too often to claim any decency and seriousness.

Calling a loser and a choker a loser and a choker is trolling? :wtf:

Ok, here are the known numbers in Wilt's "must-win" playoff games (elimination games), and clinching game performances (either deciding winning or losing games), of BOTH Chamberlain, and his starting opposing centers in those games.

1. Game three of a best-of-three series in the first round of the 59-60 playoffs against Syracuse, a 132-112 win. Wilt with 53 points, on 24-42 shooting, with 22 rebounds. His opposing center, Red Kerr, who was a multiple all-star in his career, had 7 points.

2. Game five of the 59-60 ECF's against Boston, a 128-107 win. Chamberlain had 50 points, on 22-42 shooting, with 35 rebounds. His opposing center, Russell, had 22 points and 27 rebounds.

3. Game six of the 59-60 ECF's against Boston, in a 119-117 loss. Wilt had a 26-24 game, while Russell had a 25-25 game.

4. Game three of a best-of-five series in the first round of the 60-61 playoffs , and against Syracuse, in a 106-103 loss. Chamberlain with 33 points, while his opposing center, the 7-3 Swede Halbrook, scored 6 points.

5. Game five of a best-of-five series in the first round of the 61-62 playoffs, against Syracuse, in a 121-104 win. Chamberlain had 56 points, on 22-48 shooting, with 35 rebounds. Kerr had 20 points in the loss.

6. Game six of the 61-62 ECF's, and against Boston, in a 109-99 win. Wilt with 32 points and 21 rebounds. Russell had 19 points and 22 rebounds in the loss.

7. Game seven of the 61-62 ECF's, against Boston, in a 109-107 loss. Wilt with 22 points, on 7-15 shooting, with 21 rebounds. Russell had 19 points, on 7-14 shooting, with 22 rebounds in the win.

8. Game seven of the 63-64 WCF's, and against St. Louis, in a 105-95 win. Wilt with 39 points, 26 rebounds, and 10 blocks. His opposing center, Zelmo Beaty, who would go on to become a multiple all-star, had 10 points in the loss.

9. Game five of the 63-64 Finals, and against Boston, in a 105-99 loss. Chamberlain with 30 points and 27 rebounds. Russell had 14 points and 26 points in the win.

10. Game four of a best-of-five series in the 64-65 first round of the playoffs against Cincinnati, a 119-112 win. Chamberlain with 38 points. His opposing center, multiple all-star (and HOFer) Wayne Embry had 7 points in the loss.

11. Game six of the 64-65 ECF's, against Boston, a 112-106 win. Chamberlain with a 30-26 game. Russell with a 22-21 game in the loss.

12. Game seven of the 64-65 ECF's, and against Boston, a 110-109 loss. Wilt with 30 points, on 12-15 shooting, with 32 rebounds. Russell had 15 points, on 7-16 shooting, with 29 rebounds in the win.

13. Game five of a best-of-seven series, in the 65-66 ECF's, and against Boston, in a 120-112 loss. Wilt had 46 points, on 19-34 shooting, with 34 rebounds. Russell had 18 points and 31 rebounds in the win.

14. Game four of a best-of-five series, in the first round of the 66-67 playoffs, and against Cincinnati, a 112-94 win. Wilt with 18 points, on 7-14 shooting, with 27 rebounds and 9 assists. His opposing center, Connie Dierking, had 8 points, on 4-14 shooting, with 4 rebounds in the loss.

15. Game five of the 66-67 ECF's, and against Boston, in a 140-116 win. Chamberlain with 29 points, on 10-16 shooting, with 36 rebounds, 13 assists, and 7 blocks. Russell had 4 points, on 2-5 shooting, with 21 rebounds, and 7 assists in the loss.

16. Game six of the 66-67 Finals, and against San Francisco, in a 125-122 win. Chamberlain with 24 points, on 8-13 shooting, with 23 rebounds. His oppsoing center, HOFer Nate Thurmond, had 12 points, on 4-13 shooting, with 22 rebounds in the loss.

17. Game six of the first round of the 67-68 playoffs, against NY, in a 113-97 win. Wilt had 25 points, and 27 rebounds. His opposing center, HOFer Walt Bellamy, had 19 points in the loss.

18. Game seven of the 67-68 ECF's, against Boston, in a 100-96 loss. Wilt with 14 points, on 4-9 shooting, with 34 rebounds. Russell had 12 points and 26 rebounds in the win.

19. Game six of the first round of the 68-69 playoffs, against San Francisco, in a 118-78 win. Wilt with 11 points. Thurmond had 8 points in the loss.

20. Game four of the 68-69 WCF's, against Atlanta, in a 133-114 sweeping win. Chamberlain with 16 points. His opposing center, Zelmo Beaty had 30 points in the loss.

21. Game seven of the 68-69 Finals, against Boston, in a 108-106 loss. Chamberlain had 18 points, on 7-8 shooting, with 27 rebounds. Russell had 6 points, on 2-7 shooting, with 21 rebounds in the win.

22. Game five of a best-of-seven series (the Lakers were down 3-1 going into the game) in the first round of the 69-70 playoffs, and against Phoenix, a 138-121 win. Wilt with 36 points and 14 rebounds. His opposing center, Neal Walk, had 18 points in the loss.

23. Game six of the first round of the 69-70 playoffs, against Phoenix, in a 104-93 win. Wilt with 12 points. Jim Fox started that game for Phoenix, and had 13 points in the loss.

24. Game seven of the first round of the 69-70 playoffs, against Phoenix, and in a 129-94 win, which capped a 4-3 series win after falling behind 3-1 in the series. Wilt with 30 points, 27 rebounds, and 11 blocks. Fox had 7 points in the loss.

25. Game four of the 69-70 WCF's, against Atlanta, in a 133-114 sweeping win. Wilt with 11 points. Bellamy had 19 points in the loss.

26. Game six of the 69-70 Finals, against NY, in a 135-113 win. Wilt with 45 points, on 20-27 shooting, with 27 rebounds. Nate Bowman had 18 points, on 9-15 shooting, with 8 rebounds in the loss.

27. Game seven of the 69-70 Finals, against NY, in a 113-99 loss. Wilt with 21 points, on 10-16 shooting, with 24 rebounds. HOFer Willis Reed had 4 points, on 2-5 shooting, with 3 rebounds in the win.

28. Game seven of the first round of the 70-71 playoffs, against Chicago, in a 109-98 win. Wilt with 25 points and 18 rebounds. 7-0 Tom Boerwinkle had 4 points for the Bulls in the loss.

29. Game five of the 70-71 WCF's, against Milwaukee, in a 116-94 loss. Wilt had 23 points, on 10-21 shooting, with 12 rebounds, 6 blocks (5 of them on Alcindor/Kareem.) Kareem had 20 points, on 7-23 shooting, with 15 rebounds, and 3 blocks in the win. Incidently, Wilt received a standing ovation when he left the game late...and the game was played in Milwaukee.

30. Game four of the 71-72 first round of the playoffs, against Chicago, in a 108-97 sweeping win. Wilt had 8 points and 31 rebounds. Clifford Ray had 20 points in the loss.

31. Game six of the 71-72 WCF's, against Milwaukee, in a 104-100 win. Chamberlain with 20 points, on 8-12 shooting, with 24 rebounds, and 9 blocks (six against Kareem.) Kareem had 37 points, on 16-37 shooting, with 25 rebounds in the loss.

32. Game five of the 71-72 Finals, against NY, in a 114-100 win. Chamberlain with 24 points, on 10-14 shooting, with 29 rebounds, and 9 blocks. HOFer Jerry Lucas had 14 points, on 5-14 shooting, with 9 rebounds in the loss.

33. Game seven of the first round of the 72-73 playoffs, against Chicago, in a 95-92 win. Wilt with 21 points and 28 rebounds. His opposing center, Clifford Ray, had 4 points.

34. Game five of the 72-73 WCF's, and against Golden St., in a 128-118 win. Wilt with 5 points. Thurmond had 9 points in the loss.

35. Game five of the 72-73 Finals, against NY, in a 102-93 loss. Wilt with 23 points, on 9-16 shooting, with 21 rebounds. Willis Reed had 18 points, on 9-16 shooting, with 12 rebounds.

That was it. 35 "must-win" elimination and/or clinching post-season games.

Calling a loser and a choker a loser and a choker is trolling? :wtf:

Wilt's known game winning baskets (incomplete list)

1. Nov 10, 1959 vs New York (and 3 GW blocked shots in a row)
2. Nov 28, 1959 @ New York
3. Mar 4, 1961 vs Syracuse (FT's)
4. Feb 19, 1963 vs L.A Lakers
5. Dec 8, 1963 @ L.A Lakers (FT's)
6. Dec 28, 1963 @ Baltimore (interestingly, just one game later, he sank the OT basket)
7. Feb 23, 1964 vs L.A Lakers (he played injured and scored his team's last 5 points)
8. Mar 5, 1965 @ Cincinnati (scored 16 in 4th Q, blocked 2 shots in the last 18'', he scored the OT basket 3 games later)
9. Mar 24, 1965 @ Cincinnati (Playoffs. Hits winning FT's, while playing in the last games with a stomach ailment)
10. Dec 29, 1965 @ Detroit (FT)
11. Apr 17, 1970 vs Atlanta (Playoffs. Hits winning FT's in the end of OT).

Calling a loser and a choker a loser and a choker is trolling? :wtf:

http://www.si.com/vault/1991/10/16/125157/33-a-streak-to-remember-in-november-of-1971-the-los-angeles-lakers-went-on-a-roll-twenty-years-later-their-33-game-win-streak-is-still-the-longest-in-pro-sports-history

Calling a loser and a choker a loser and a choker is trolling? :wtf:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Np29MW_XN8

Calling a loser and a choker a loser and a choker is trolling? :wtf:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9nGQ27zlfE

LAZERUSS

08-26-2015, 03:00 PM

Seriously, look at this crap:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01/gamelog/2013/

These are his statlines when he was as old as 1968 Wilt, and this came in a championship season, so it is supposed to make us feel impressed, lol. Did this guy even have 5 playoff games in this whole postseason as good as Wilt's worst playoff games? 14/2/4, 10/3/4, 10/2/1 and it goes on and on. Compare him to Wilt? These aren't even better than lots of games of Robert Horry - and Horry has more rings than Ade. :oldlol:

:applause: :applause: :applause:

We can safely remove Wade from ANY GOAT discussions.

BTW, has there ever been a more SUSPICIOUS Finals than that in 2006?

Wade was averaging 9.0 FTAs per game in his first 17 playoff games that post-season...and then, SUDDENLY, in his six Finals games... 16.1 FTA??!!

I swear I saw him walking arm-in-arm with referee "Dangerous" Danny Davis after that game six, and a big wad of cash fell out of Davis's pocket as they exited the floor.

aj1987

08-26-2015, 03:51 PM

Cork it, troll. You've been made to look like a fool way too often to claim any decency and seriousness.
Stay mad, bitch boy. Chokerlain is not even close to being on Wade's level and he played in a ultra weak era.

Wilt's known game winning baskets (incomplete list)

1. Nov 10, 1959 vs New York (and 3 GW blocked shots in a row)
2. Nov 28, 1959 @ New York
3. Mar 4, 1961 vs Syracuse (FT's)
4. Feb 19, 1963 vs L.A Lakers
5. Dec 8, 1963 @ L.A Lakers (FT's)
6. Dec 28, 1963 @ Baltimore (interestingly, just one game later, he sank the OT basket)
7. Feb 23, 1964 vs L.A Lakers (he played injured and scored his team's last 5 points)
8. Mar 5, 1965 @ Cincinnati (scored 16 in 4th Q, blocked 2 shots in the last 18'', he scored the OT basket 3 games later)
9. Mar 24, 1965 @ Cincinnati (Playoffs. Hits winning FT's, while playing in the last games with a stomach ailment)
10. Dec 29, 1965 @ Detroit (FT)
11. Apr 17, 1970 vs Atlanta (Playoffs. Hits winning FT's in the end of OT).

Only two in the PO's, huh? :roll: :roll: :roll:

#9, Choked his FT's and got bailed out.
#10, Choked his FT's and got bailed out.
#11, Wouldn't have required the OT, if Chokerlain hit his FT's in regulation. Got bailed out again.

Don't even feel like doing the rest. Can you back any of them, btw?

Still hilarious that he has only two in the PO's. :roll:

http://i.imgur.com/yZiQFMV.gif
http://s1.postimg.org/w7vqd9ylr/image.jpg

Psileas

08-26-2015, 04:05 PM

You know your humiliation has entered a new dimension when you have to make up stories about Wilt doing things like missing FT's that he actually made. Ciao, loser.

RidonKs

08-26-2015, 05:16 PM

awesome post psileas

just reading through that once over should convince anybody honest that wilt wasn't a choker

no more than lebron anyway :lol

inclinerator

08-26-2015, 05:32 PM

lord of all gayness

aj1987

08-26-2015, 05:36 PM

You know your humiliation has entered a new dimension when you have to make up stories about Wilt doing things like missing FT's that he actually made. Ciao, loser.
Can't back up your "facts", huh? :roll: :roll:

Massive blocks of texts with not even a single link to back any of that shit up.

@Cincy - 6-18 from the FT line.
@Det - 6-13 from the FT line.
@Atl - 8-17 from the FT line.

Again, only 2 "game winners" in the PO's? Dude was a born loser. Apparently the "GOAT scorer" and "GOAT defender" can't win more than 2 rings in a weak ass horse shit era. :oldlol:

Let's not even get into all his chokes. Well, we'll do one. 4-13 and 18 points in a game 7 of the NBA finals in a 2 point loss. Meanwhile Jerry and Elgin end up with 42 and 20. Wade, OTOH, put up 23/10/1/1/2 in his ONLY game 7 of the Finals. Oh, and Wade had 2 game winners in his FIRST series EVER as a ROOKIE. Peak Wilt would be nothing more than a glorified DeAndre Jordan today. Borderline top 10 player in the league.

Oh well, Chokerlain gonna Chokerlain.

BTW, I don't know why you're calling me a loser. I'm not Wilt dude.

http://i.imgur.com/yZiQFMV.gif

http://s1.postimg.org/w7vqd9ylr/image.jpg

LAZERUSS

08-26-2015, 06:45 PM

Can't back up your "facts", huh? :roll: :roll:

Massive blocks of texts with not even a single link to back any of that shit up.

@Cincy - 6-18 from the FT line.
@Det - 6-13 from the FT line.
@Atl - 8-17 from the FT line.

Again, only 2 "game winners" in the PO's? Dude was a born loser. Apparently the "GOAT scorer" and "GOAT defender" can't win more than 2 rings in a weak ass horse shit era. :oldlol:

Let's not even get into all his chokes. Well, we'll do one. 4-13 and 18 points in a game 7 of the NBA finals in a 2 point loss. Meanwhile Jerry and Elgin end up with 42 and 20. Wade, OTOH, put up 23/10/1/1/2 in his ONLY game 7 of the Finals. Oh, and Wade had 2 game winners in his FIRST series EVER as a ROOKIE. Peak Wilt would be nothing more than a glorified DeAndre Jordan today. Borderline top 10 player in the league.

Oh well, Chokerlain gonna Chokerlain.

BTW, I don't know why you're calling me a loser. I'm not Wilt dude.

http://i.imgur.com/yZiQFMV.gif

http://s1.postimg.org/w7vqd9ylr/image.jpg

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Dwyane "Mr. Game 7" Wade...

a CAREER 48-118 from the floor in his game seven's...or.... get this...
... a .407 career shooter from the FIELD in his game seven's.

BTW, Chamberlain in his two game seven's of the FINALS... 17-24, or .708, to go along with 51 rebounds.

How about Wilt in his "at the limit" games (game three of a best-of-three, game five of a best-of-five, and game seven of a best-of-seven)...

11 games

29.9 ppg
26.7 rpg
.581 FG%

Oh, and his opposing starting centers in those 11 games... 9.8 ppg.

How about MUST WIN games?

12-11 W-L record

31.1 ppg (Regular season career average was 30.1 ppg)
26.1 rpg (Regular season career average was 22.9 rpg)
3.4 apg (Regular season career average was 4.4 apg)
.540 FG% (Regular season career average was .540 FG%)

3 games of 50+ points (and the ONLY THREE by a GOAT Candidate)

5 games of 40+ points (including a Finals 40+ elimination game)

13 games of 30+ points

6 games of 30+ rebounds

20 games of 20+ rebounds

How about in MUST WIN and SERIES CLINCHING games...

W-L : 24-13

Here were Wilt's averages in those 37 games:

29.5 ppg

26.1 rpg

4.2 apg (missing one game)

.546 FG% (in post-seasons that shot about .440 on average in that span.)

Keep in mind that 24 of those 37 games came after his "scoring seasons" (59-60 thru 65-66)

Now, PLEASE post your boy Wade's numbers in those scenarios...

LAZERUSS

08-26-2015, 06:52 PM

How was Wade ranked among his peers, you ask?

In his 12 injury-plagued seasons...

ONE 3rd place in the MVP balloting.

ONE 5th in the MVP voting.

ONE 6th in the MVP voting.

ONE 7th

ONE 8th

TWO 10ths

ONE 12th

Hell, the goofball wasn't even anywhere to be found in FOUR of his 12 seasons, and wasn't even Top-10 in FIVE (or nearly HALF of his career)!

How about Wilt?

In his 14 seasons...

FOUR 1sts.

TWO 2nds.

ONE 3rd.

TWO 4ths.

ONE 5th.

ONE 7th.

Oh, and in his 10 seasons in the league with Russell, he held a 7-2 margin in First Team All-NBA's.

aj1987

08-26-2015, 07:16 PM

Irrelevant BS
Finals, you stupid shit.

1969 NBA Finals. 4-13 from the FT line in a 2pt loss. Wade scored 23/10/1/1/2 on 53%.

How about MUST WIN games?

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9734826&postcount=1

Wade is 8-6 and Wilt is 12-11. :roll:

How about in MUST WIN and SERIES CLINCHING games...
In the Finals? Wade won 3 Finals out of the 5 he played. Wilt won 2. :roll:

Now, PLEASE post your boy Wade's numbers in those scenarios...
Chokerlain stans can only run with stats. Stats in a 130 pace ultra weak era. Put peak Ilt in the current era and he's be nothing more than than a DJ type player.

How was Wade ranked among his peers, you ask?

In his 12 injury-plagued seasons...

ONE 3rd place in the MVP balloting.

ONE 5th in the MVP voting.

ONE 6th in the MVP voting.

ONE 7th

ONE 8th

TWO 10ths

ONE 12th

Hell, the goofball wasn't even anywhere to be found in FOUR of his 12 seasons, and wasn't even Top-10 in FIVE (or nearly HALF of his career)!

How about Wilt?

In his 14 seasons...

FOUR 1sts.

TWO 2nds.

ONE 3rd.

TWO 4ths.

ONE 5th.

ONE 7th.

Oh, and in his 10 seasons in the league with Russell, he held a 7-2 margin in First Team All-NBA's.

Regular season. That's all you Wilt dickriders can brag about.

http://i.imgur.com/yZiQFMV.gif

http://s1.postimg.org/w7vqd9ylr/image.jpg

Chokerlain stans... :roll: :roll:

Anyways, I don't see what the topic has to do with Wade at all, you insecure dolt.

Lets get back to Mr. Chokerlain.

.511 FT% shooter in the regular season
.465 in the playoffs
.375 in the finals

Chamberlains ppg in regular season: 30.1
Chamberlains ppg in playoffs: 22.5
Chamberlain's ppg in the Finals: 18

Default NBA choking rating

Advanced Formula: Losses with HCA + playoff ppg drop + finals ppg drop + playoff rpg drop + finals rpg drop + playoff apg drop + finals apg drop + playoff fg% drop + finals fg% drop + playoff ft% drop + finals ft% drop - rings

Wilt Chamberlain: 5 + (30.1-22.5) + (30.1-18.6) + (22.9-24.9) + (22.9-24.6) + (4.4-4.2) + (4.4-3.8) + (54.0-52.2) + (54.0-55.9) + (51.1-46.5) + (51.1-37.5) - 2 = 37.3

Psileas

08-26-2015, 08:06 PM

aj1987

08-26-2015, 08:17 PM

:roll: OK, Lazeruss, you had me rolling again by quoting this aj who thinks that having the last word means something.

Dude can't even distinguish FT shooting from making game winning FT's (apparently, someone who's shooting badly during a game can't have made a game winner), thinks making 2 winning baskets in the playoffs is bad whereas Bird had only 1, Hakeem had 1, Magic had 2, Shaq had 0 and Russell had 0 (damn, it's only fitting that Wilt is accompanied by all those chokers!) and is proud of Wade posting a 23/10/1 (yes, 1 whole assist by a guard) Game 7 in the Finals after my having posted a list of Wilt's great playoff perf...ehm, sorry, I meant "walls of text"!
He is beyond any redemption and still masochistically buries himself in the shit more and more every time he posts. :oldlol:
I never said that he didn't hit the game winning FT's, dumb****. I was just saying that if he wasn't a god awful FT shooter, he could've ended the game sooner. #11 wouldn't have gone to OT either.

Also, I asked you to provide PROOF for Wilt's alleged game winners. Something which you are dodging.

You really don't want to talk about Wilt and G7's of the FINALS, BTW. Dude choked his ass of in the series, which they SHOULD have won.

Admittedly, I rank Wilt ~7-10 and Wade ~17-20 all time. Yet, you guys are getting your panties in a bunch and trying to defend the greatest choker the game has ever seen. Oh, and Wilt is that high only because of his MVP's. Otherwise, he'd be 20th, with 0 MVP's. :roll: :roll: :roll:

Pathetic.

Leaving this here:

.511 FT% shooter in the regular season
.465 in the playoffs
.375 in the finals

Chamberlains ppg in regular season: 30.1
Chamberlains ppg in playoffs: 22.5
Chamberlain's ppg in the Finals: 18

Default NBA choking rating

Advanced Formula: Losses with HCA + playoff ppg drop + finals ppg drop + playoff rpg drop + finals rpg drop + playoff apg drop + finals apg drop + playoff fg% drop + finals fg% drop + playoff ft% drop + finals ft% drop - rings

Wilt Chamberlain: 5 + (30.1-22.5) + (30.1-18.6) + (22.9-24.9) + (22.9-24.6) + (4.4-4.2) + (4.4-3.8) + (54.0-52.2) + (54.0-55.9) + (51.1-46.5) + (51.1-37.5) - 2 = 37.3

Wade's Rings

08-26-2015, 08:29 PM

Can't back up your "facts", huh? :roll: :roll:

Massive blocks of texts with not even a single link to back any of that shit up.

@Cincy - 6-18 from the FT line.
@Det - 6-13 from the FT line.
@Atl - 8-17 from the FT line.

Again, only 2 "game winners" in the PO's? Dude was a born loser. Apparently the "GOAT scorer" and "GOAT defender" can't win more than 2 rings in a weak ass horse shit era. :oldlol:

Let's not even get into all his chokes. Well, we'll do one. 4-13 and 18 points in a game 7 of the NBA finals in a 2 point loss. Meanwhile Jerry and Elgin end up with 42 and 20. Wade, OTOH, put up 23/10/1/1/2 in his ONLY game 7 of the Finals. Oh, and Wade had 2 game winners in his FIRST series EVER as a ROOKIE. Peak Wilt would be nothing more than a glorified DeAndre Jordan today. Borderline top 10 player in the league.

Oh well, Chokerlain gonna Chokerlain.

BTW, I don't know why you're calling me a loser. I'm not Wilt dude.

Finals, you stupid shit.

1969 NBA Finals. 4-13 from the FT line in a 2pt loss. Wade scored 23/10/1/1/2 on 53%.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9734826&postcount=1

Wade is 8-6 and Wilt is 12-11. :roll:

In the Finals? Wade won 3 Finals out of the 5 he played. Wilt won 2. :roll:

Chokerlain stans can only run with stats. Stats in a 130 pace ultra weak era. Put peak Ilt in the current era and he's be nothing more than than a DJ type player.

Regular season. That's all you Wilt dickriders can brag about.

http://i.imgur.com/yZiQFMV.gif

http://s1.postimg.org/w7vqd9ylr/image.jpg

Chokerlain stans... :roll:

Anyways, I don't see what the topic has to do with Wade at all, you insecure dolt.

Lets get back to Mr. Chokerlain.

.511 FT% shooter in the regular season
.465 in the playoffs
.375 in the finals

Chamberlains ppg in regular season: 30.1
Chamberlains ppg in playoffs: 22.5
Chamberlain's ppg in the Finals: 18

Default NBA choking rating

Advanced Formula: Losses with HCA + playoff ppg drop + finals ppg drop + playoff rpg drop + finals rpg drop + playoff apg drop + finals apg drop + playoff fg% drop + finals fg% drop + playoff ft% drop + finals ft% drop - rings

Wilt Chamberlain: 5 + (30.1-22.5) + (30.1-18.6) + (22.9-24.9) + (22.9-24.6) + (4.4-4.2) + (4.4-3.8) + (54.0-52.2) + (54.0-55.9) + (51.1-46.5) + (51.1-37.5) - 2 = 37.3

:lebronamazed: :applause:

Psileas

08-26-2015, 10:33 PM

LAZERUSS

08-26-2015, 10:59 PM

More BS from the master of the kind. You know what, it takes work and research to get the results you want and I'm not willing to share my info with certified trolls, who aren't going to appreciate the effort and dismiss the results, regardless of whether these results are presented or not. I couldn't care less if you're not convinced that there's proof of Wilt's playoff game-winners. Anyone who has done research knows they exist and nbastats has added this piece of info next to Wilt's respective games. I have, however, provided just enough info to crush your shit and make you hallucinate about "choking" Wilt who missed FT's that he actually made. Btw, you haven't provided any proof of Wade's game winners, either (not that I care, but it's funny you complain about the "lack of proof" and then go on to offer info without any proof as well).

He mentions Wade's two game-winning shots in his first series as a rookie. Hmmm...in game seven of that same series, Wade would begin what would be a recurring theme...playing pitifully in game seven's. In that game seven...12 pts on 5-18 FG/FGA, with 4 rbs, 7 asts, 4 TOs, and 5 PFs.

Put Wade in a BIG game? How about in a must-win game six of the '11 Finals? You know...where Riley made the mistake of having WADE be "the man?" 17 pts on 6-16 from the FIELD (as usual, just awful shooting) with 5 TOs, and a measely four points in the pivotal 4th quarter.

Of course, that would be the LAST time Wade would be asked to carry the Heat. In fact, Wade would miss 65 games in his four years with Lebron, and guess what? The Heat missed him so much that they could only go 47-18 in those games.

You gave AJ some 35 of Wilt's playoff games (must win or series clinching.) Of course, you could have provided another 50 or more HUGE games by Chamberlain. For instance, a 50-22 game in his '64 WDF's. Or game two of the '62 EDF's, when he outscored Russell, 42-9, while outrebounding Russell, 37-20. How about a 27-38 game against Russell in the '64 Finals (oh, and Russell had 8 points and 19 rebounds in the same game.) Wilt's dominating games are truly staggering.

We BOTH could provide mediocre game, after mediocre game by Wade in his post-season career. However, he would have a difficult time finding a playoff game in which Chamberlain didn't grab at least 20 rebounds. Or hold his opposing centers to just awful shooting (including KAREEM.) Much less scoring 30+ points, and overwhelming his HOF peers in his biggest games.

In fact, you and I have wasted our time arguing about a two-bit player like WADE in ANY discussion with a true GOAT like WILT. The same Chamberlain who just SLAUGHTERED RUSSELL in their EIGHT post-season H2H series.

Of course, none other than John Wooden acknowledged that, had Wilt and Russell swapped rosters (and coaches), and it likely would have been WILT holding all those rings.

AirFederer

08-27-2015, 05:17 AM

I`ll give Ilt the nod as best dressed

http://juniordsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/wilt-chamberlain-Conan.jpg

Asukal

08-27-2015, 05:37 AM

I`ll give Ilt the nod as best dressed

http://juniordsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/wilt-chamberlain-Conan.jpg

I remember watching conan. ILt also took L's here dying as a double crossing role player. :roll:

aj1987

08-27-2015, 08:29 AM

Wilt stans are literally shook. They know that they can't compare him to the MJ's, Shaq's, Magic's, LeBron's, Kobe's, etc., so they're comparing him to a top 18 player. This only means that Wilt should rightfully belong somewhere ~15. Anyways, the "GOAT" scorer/rebounder/defender can't win more than 2 rings in a horse shit garbage ass era? :roll:

Anyways, lets get back to Chokerlain and his chokes.

.511 FT% shooter in the regular season
.465 in the playoffs
.375 in the finals

Chamberlains ppg in regular season: 30.1
Chamberlains ppg in playoffs: 22.5
Chamberlain's ppg in the Finals: 18

Default NBA choking rating

Advanced Formula: Losses with HCA + playoff ppg drop + finals ppg drop + playoff rpg drop + finals rpg drop + playoff apg drop + finals apg drop + playoff fg% drop + finals fg% drop + playoff ft% drop + finals ft% drop - rings

Wilt Chamberlain: 5 + (30.1-22.5) + (30.1-18.6) + (22.9-24.9) + (22.9-24.6) + (4.4-4.2) + (4.4-3.8) + (54.0-52.2) + (54.0-55.9) + (51.1-46.5) + (51.1-37.5) - 2 = 37.3

Rightfully named Wilt. :roll:

Marchesk

08-27-2015, 08:35 AM

Wilt stans are literally shook. They know that they can't compare him to the MJ's, Shaq's, Magic's, LeBron's,

Stopped reading at Lebron.