Dennis Rodman's rebounding statistics vs other great rebounders from all eras

[Rose'sACL]

http://i.imgur.com/N14j7JM.gif



stolen from reddit.

The difference between him and the player with the 2nd most RPG in the seasons that he won the rebounding title:

1992: Rodman 18.7. Kevin Willis 15.5. Difference +3.2 RPG.

1993: Rodman 18.3. Shaq 13.9. Difference +4.4 RPG.

1994: Rodman 17.3. Shaq 13.2. Difference +4.1 RPG.

1995: Rodman 16.8. Mutombo 12.5. Difference +4.3 RPG.

1996: Rodman 14.9. David Robinson 12.2. Difference +2.7 RPG.

1997: Rodman 16.1. Mutombo 11.6. Difference +4.5.

1998: Rodman 15.0. Jayson Williams 13.6. Difference +1.4.

[sdot_thadon]

He was a beast on the glass.

[HoopologyPhD]

I didn't know that Kevin Willis was such as beast, he was putting up nice career highs (18 ppg, 15.5 trb) in his peak season.

[riseagainst]

GOAT rebounder and it's not even close.

:bowdown:

[90sgoat]

I didn't know that Kevin Willis was such as beast, he was putting up nice career highs (18 ppg, 15.5 trb) in his peak season.

No one remembers the second best stats like prime Dwight and this guy was third tier 90s big man

[DonDadda59]

I didn't know that Kevin Willis was such as beast, he was putting up nice career highs (18 ppg, 15.5 trb) in his peak season.

The drawback of playing in a stacked era for bigs. No one remembers absolute studs like Willis or Daugherty.

From '91-'95, Willis was a 7fter putting up 18/13...

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

The drawback of playing in a stacked era for bigs. No one remembers absolute studs like Willis or Daugherty.

From '91-'95, Willis was a 7fter putting up 18/13...

Willis is like Dwight Howard with a midrange game. Only difference between them far as impact goes, is that Willis played during the GOAT era for big men (as you said).

And yeah, Daugherty is another underrated beast.

[SouBeachTalents]

Inb4 3ball

[Psileas]

Do you have the link of this graph?

[Sarcastic]

GOAT rebounder and it's not even close.

:bowdown:


:biggums:


http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/trb_per_g_career.html

[SHAQisGOAT]

Very close estimates of Russell and Wilt's TRB%...

Wilt

60 - 20.3

61 - 20.7

62 - 20.0

63 - 20.8

64 - 19.8

65 - 20.3

66 - 20.4

67 - 21.3

68 - 20.1

69 - 20.4

70 - 20.7

71 - 18.4

72 - 20.1

73 - 19.6

Career TRB%: 20.16

Bill

57 - 21.9

58 - 21.3

59 - 19.0

60 - 19.0

61 - 18.6

62 - 19.1

63 - 19.9

64 - 20.9

65 - 20.5

66 - 20.6

67 - 20.7

68 - 19.8

69 - 18.6

Career TRB%: 19.94


Looking at Dennis...

1988 - 18.6

1989 - 19.8

1990 - 19.0

1991 - 21.3

1992 - 26.2

1993 - 26.0

1994 - 25.7

1995 - 29.7

1996 - 26.6

1997 - 25.6

1998 - 24.1

1999 - 22.9

2000 - 23.6

Career TRB%: 23.4

Moses...

1977 - 23.4

1978 - 22.3

1979 - 23.2

1980 - 20.9

1981 - 20.3

1982 - 19.3

1983 - 21.6

1984 - 20.6

1985 - 19.7

1986 - 18.0

1987 - 17.6

1988 - 18.3

1989 - 18.1

1990 - 17.1

1991 - 19.1

1992 - 16.9

1993 - 25.6

1994 - 20.1

1995 - 17.5

Career TRB%: 19.8

Those are the 4 GOAT rebounders ^, in my book.

Swen Nater, in the NBA, got a career high TRB% of 23.0... 20.9 for his NBA career, in 8 seasons playing 28.4 MPG.
Dude's definitely one of the best rebounders ever.

Dwight's career TRB% is 20.7, high was 22.0, playing 35.6 MPG in 11 seasons so far... But his competition, imo, is not on the same level as Malone's or Rodman's; still one of the GOAT rebounders.

Reggie Evans' career TRB% is 21.9 right now, high of 26.7... But only playing 19.2 MPG for his career.


(only mentioned regular-season numbers in this post)

[jayfan]

Shaq should be embarrassed to be as low as he is. Just lazy. He should have owned the rebounding record book.



.

[DonDadda59]

Shaq should be embarrassed to be as low as he is. Just lazy. He should have owned the rebounding record book.



.

Pretty funny that his rookie year was his best rebounding season. But it makes sense within context. He played with some good-great rebounders at the 4 after that. Horace Grant joined the Magic and Diesel's rebounding #s went down, then after Rodman joined the Lakers in '99 same thing happened.

So it's hard to say if it was him getting fatter and lazier (which he did :lol ) or just him having to do less with better rebounding personnel on his squads.

[GIF REACTION]

One dimensional players like Rodman THRIVED in the illegal defense era. The Illegal Defense rule scheme ensured that defenses had to play single coverage and double aggressively. This created a league where offenses were getting away with playing isolation ball, and effectively too. Defenses had no choice but to sit by as they were dismantled by a one man offense. They couldn't do anything. The rules at the time forced them to play man defense. No zones or principles of such whatsoever. Teams in this era would isolate on the wing for a 1 on 1. This was called the "clear out". Single dimensional players could create offensive spacing because of the Illegal defense rules. Thus, many teams didn't need shooters, and they had rebounders who could sit out at the 3 point line when a clear out was called. Things are different today with no ID. Defenses as a team are much more sophisticated. To beat them, you have to play a 5 man offense game. This requires higher, more well rounded players to play. They need to be able to shoot, pass, rebound, and defend a multiple of positions. Thus, superstar stats have taken a hit.

[DonDadda59]

One dimensional players like Rodman THRIVED in the illegal defense era. The Illegal Defense rule scheme ensured that defenses had to play single coverage and double aggressively. This created a league where offenses were getting away with playing isolation ball, and effectively too. Defenses had no choice but to sit by as they were dismantled by a one man offense. They couldn't do anything. The rules at the time forced them to play man defense. No zones or principles of such whatsoever. Teams in this era would isolate on the wing for a 1 on 1. This was called the "clear out". Single dimensional players could create offensive spacing because of the Illegal defense rules. Thus, many teams didn't need shooters, and they had rebounders who could sit out at the 3 point line when a clear out was called. Things are different today with no ID. Defenses as a team are much more sophisticated. To beat them, you have to play a 5 man offense game. This requires higher, more well rounded players to play. They need to be able to shoot, pass, rebound, and defend a multiple of positions. Thus, superstar stats have taken a hit.

Leave it to this snitch to come in and retard up a thread. What did any of your mental diarrhea have to do with Rodman's rebounding?

[GIF REACTION]

Leave it to this snitch to come in and retard up a thread. What did any of your mental diarrhea have to do with Rodman's rebounding?
One dimensional players like Rodman THRIVED in the illegal defense era.

[sdot_thadon]

Ummm, you guys embellishing a bit when you say Kevin Willis was like dwight. Swole? Check. Good rebounder? Check. Defense? Negative. He was a good defender but prime dwight was elite. If I remember right the biggest knock on Willis was those small hands, he turned it over quite a bit. He was definitely a reliable starting caliber guy though. Just not dwight.

[warriorfan]

One dimensional players like Rodman THRIVED in the illegal defense era. The Illegal Defense rule scheme ensured that defenses had to play single coverage and double aggressively. This created a league where offenses were getting away with playing isolation ball, and effectively too. Defenses had no choice but to sit by as they were dismantled by a one man offense. They couldn't do anything. The rules at the time forced them to play man defense. No zones or principles of such whatsoever. Teams in this era would isolate on the wing for a 1 on 1. This was called the "clear out". Single dimensional players could create offensive spacing because of the Illegal defense rules. Thus, many teams didn't need shooters, and they had rebounders who could sit out at the 3 point line when a clear out was called. Things are different today with no ID. Defenses as a team are much more sophisticated. To beat them, you have to play a 5 man offense game. This requires higher, more well rounded players to play. They need to be able to shoot, pass, rebound, and defend a multiple of positions. Thus, superstar stats have taken a hit.

Wrong. Today's Superstars get to play against no handchecking and no centers setting up shop in the lane... It's easier to produce in today's game. Replace Jordan with James Harden on those 90's Bull teams and let me know what happens...

[DonDadda59]

One dimensional players like Rodman THRIVED in the illegal defense era.

And what was Ben Wallace doing in the 'GOAT defensive' era? or first team all NBA center Joakim Noah now? DeAndre Jordan is a MAX PLAYER right now you dumb f*ck :yaohappy:

[GIF REACTION]

Alright what's your phone number

[DonDadda59]

Alright what's your phone number

555-Stop Snitching.

But keep embarrassing yourself, please.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Wrong. Today's Superstars get to play against no handchecking and no centers setting up shop in the lane... It's easier to produce in today's game. Replace Jordan with James Harden on those 90's Bull teams and let me know what happens...

Good point. His ass would be on the floor, and wouldn't be from flopping either. :lol

[senelcoolidge]

Rodman only played on one side of the game..defense/rebounding. Of course what he did defensively and his rebounding numbers are nothing to balk at. Unlike Wilt, Moses Malone, and even Russell who were two way players. Using your energy on both sides of the floor and still putting up such rebounding numbers seems more impressive.

[97 bulls]

Rodman only played on one side of the game..defense/rebounding. Of course what he did defensively and his rebounding numbers are nothing to balk at. Unlike Wilt, Moses Malone, and even Russell who were two way players. Using your energy on both sides of the floor and still putting up such rebounding numbers seems more impressive.
Russells scoring is on par with Rodman based on context.

[GimmeThat]

if you strictly think about it. in order to grab the rebound, or any rebound with two hands, the jump of your timing HAS to be perfect.

you can probably make up the rest with pure athleticism of course.

[senelcoolidge]

Russells scoring is on par with Rodman based on context.

Yeah, I was a little hesitant to mention Russell, even though he was not the primary nor the 2nd or 3rd scorer on some of his teams he still contributed on offense a lot more than Rodman. I always found it amusing when Rodman would grab some incredible offensive rebound and instead of putting it back for an easy 2 he would pass it out or dribble it out. He intentionally tried not to score.

[warriorfan]

if you strictly think about it. in order to grab the rebound, or any rebound with two hands, the jump of your timing HAS to be perfect.

you can probably make up the rest with pure athleticism of course.

Even though Rodman did have great timing and positioning, Rodman's rebounding had more to do with hustle and desire rather than perfect technique.

What most sticks out about Rodman to me is his ability to jump very quickly and repeatedly as he gets a piece of the ball the first jump, and then keeps going up and fighting for it over and over.

[GimmeThat]

Even though Rodman did have great timing and positioning, Rodman's rebounding had more to do with hustle and desire rather than perfect technique.


would you categorize Manu's euro-step with perfect technique or hustle and desire?


it's probably worth discovering as to how many past prime point guards can get the assists between the 10 to 3 footer area.

[warriorfan]

would you categorize Manu's euro-step with perfect technique or hustle and desire?


Technique

[I<3NBA]

if you strictly think about it. in order to grab the rebound, or any rebound with two hands, the jump of your timing HAS to be perfect.

you can probably make up the rest with pure athleticism of course.
there was a story about how Rodman would study each player's shot and how it bounced off the glass or rim so he would know where to position himself.

unreal.

a genius. :applause: :applause:

[NuggetsFan]

Willis is like Dwight Howard with a midrange game. Only difference between them far as impact goes, is that Willis played during the GOAT era for big men (as you said).

And yeah, Daugherty is another underrated beast.

Willis strung together like what 4 All-Star caliber seasons in a row? What did he do in the playoffs. Go ahead and post a few of his best runs. Dwight had a waaaay better 5 year run has been much better in the playoffs than Willis ever was. Dwight was on another level defensively too.

18/13 with .5 blocks on 49% for Willis in the RS during that 4 year span. Dwight put up 20/13 with 2.4 blocks on 59%. Dwight had more playoff success as well.

Willis faced way tougher competition no doubt, Dwight's also played his entire career in an NBA that desperately has tried to move away from big men and focus on perimeter players. Teams don't go to the post like they use too, Willis wouldn't be feasting today. Dwight's usually been the best player on his team as well, up until Houston. Dwight put up like 18/12 with Houston '14 during the regular season and exploded for 26/14 & 3 blocks vs Portland in the playoffs when he needed too.

Kevin Willis was literally putting up 13/9 in a prime year on a 43 win team. 5th leading scorer on that team.

[Mike Armstrong]

He was a beast on the glass.

Yarp.

[Sarcastic]

Russells scoring is on par with Rodman based on context.

No it's not. Rodman makes Russell look like a scoring champ.

[julizaver]

Very close estimates of Russell and Wilt's TRB%...

Wilt

60 - 20.3

61 - 20.7

62 - 20.0

63 - 20.8

64 - 19.8

65 - 20.3

66 - 20.4

67 - 21.3

68 - 20.1

69 - 20.4

70 - 20.7

71 - 18.4

72 - 20.1

73 - 19.6

Career TRB%: 20.16

Bill

57 - 21.9

58 - 21.3

59 - 19.0

60 - 19.0

61 - 18.6

62 - 19.1

63 - 19.9

64 - 20.9

65 - 20.5

66 - 20.6

67 - 20.7

68 - 19.8

69 - 18.6

Career TRB%: 19.94


Looking at Dennis...

1988 - 18.6

1989 - 19.8

1990 - 19.0

1991 - 21.3

1992 - 26.2

1993 - 26.0

1994 - 25.7

1995 - 29.7

1996 - 26.6

1997 - 25.6

1998 - 24.1

1999 - 22.9

2000 - 23.6

Career TRB%: 23.4

Moses...

1977 - 23.4

1978 - 22.3

1979 - 23.2

1980 - 20.9

1981 - 20.3

1982 - 19.3

1983 - 21.6

1984 - 20.6

1985 - 19.7

1986 - 18.0

1987 - 17.6

1988 - 18.3

1989 - 18.1

1990 - 17.1

1991 - 19.1

1992 - 16.9

1993 - 25.6

1994 - 20.1

1995 - 17.5

Career TRB%: 19.8

Those are the 4 GOAT rebounders ^, in my book.

(only mentioned regular-season numbers in this post)

Did you took into account the team rebounds. Denis Rodman was the rebounding phenomen of his era and he really is a GOAT level rebounder. But he is not far ahead of Wilt and Bill as this data sugests.

I copied that post from http://skepticalsports.com/the-case-for-dennis-rodman-part-14-c-rodman-v-ancient-history/ :

First off, in your Rodman vs. Ancient History the model is completely wrong because TEAM REBOUNDS were kept into league averages until the 1968-69 season, thus inflating the number of rebounds available per game in comparison to the 1980s/90s in which Dennis Rodman played.
For instance: I will find the sum rebounds for the players in 1963 (Wilt’s best RPG year after team rebounds are taken out of the equation – I don’t think it is the best one for REB% because his MPG were also high for that year.)
1963 Warriors Rebounds (with team rebounds): 5359
1963 Warriors Rebounds (without team rebounds): 4670
Wow that is a big difference! Remember, during Rodman’s time (he played after 1967-68) the league didn’t count these team rebounds into their averages. I actually found data for EVERY YEAR (both regular season and playoffs) Wilt and Rodman played in the team rebounds category and put them all to the base year of 1996 (thus comparing them on equal footing) and this is how it pans out.

Wilt Regular season:
1959-60 17.4
1960-61 17.4
1961-62 17.2
1962-63 17.5
1963-64 15.8
1964-65 16.0
1965-66 16.9
1966-67 16.8
1967-68 17.0
1968-69 15.3
1969-70 14.4
1970-71 14.2
1971-72 15.5
1972-73 15.2

AVG: 16.29

PER36: 12.81

Rodman Regular Season:
1986-87 4.0
1987-88 8.3
1988-89 8.8
1989-90 9.3
1990-91 11.9
1991-92 17.7
1992-93 17.5
1993-94 16.6
1994-95 16.7
1995-96 14.9
1996-97 16.2
1997-98 14.9
1998-99 11.1
1999-00 13.8

AVG: 12.71

PER36: 14.43

Rodman is still clearly ahead, of course there are reasons for that. Blatant stat-padding such as ripping rebounds out of teammates hands, not boxing out his man and going to the side he felt the ball would go to, missing layups and tip ins on purpose, aborting the offense, not coming on help defense and grabbing every end of quarter heave and free throw miss that he could. I’m not saying its never been done before, but it gives a good idea why he is such an outlier in the regular season and why he is only second in REB% in the playoffs.

Here are some quotes to back up this stat padding mentality that he had:
“I let Dennis Rodman get his rebounds and get out of his way . . . allow him to pad his rebound stats,” Pippen said. “I think, as a basketball team, we just have to get more hungry. Dennis is going to get his rebounds. I just have to be more aggressive and get mine as well. We need to go out to win and not go out for the stats.”

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1996-12-13/sports/9612130108_1_bulls-scottie-pippen-dennis-rodman

“Dennis is going to get that basketball at the cost of pulling it away from his teammate sometimes” – Phil Jackson

“It’s a passion for him, but sometimes a distraction,” Jackson says. “It borders on an obsession that can create an obstruction to a team. We always have to temper him as still being a part of the offense, even though you’re still doing your job–which is going to get rebounds. There are times when I’ve seen Dennis step from one side of the basket where his man is because the shot is there and he can get the high-percentage rebound. But the ball bounces right to his man for a layup. His instinct is to go to the high-percentage side to get that rebound.”

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1996-02-29/sports/9602290143_1_bulls-coach-phil-jackson-dennis-rodman-grab

“I mean, there are times when we’re fighting against him to get rebounds. Sometimes we’ll lose it out of bounds because we’re fighting him.” – Michael Jordan

From “In the Year of the Bull” by Rick Telander p212

(This is an article on how stat keeping is superstar-biased, not sure how accurate it is, but have a look at it)

Alex says, “is if a shot goes up and someone tips it and someone else recovers it, you can give it to either one. Rodman would get those all the time. Most callers will give it to the guy who actually gets possession. But that doesn’t mean a caller can’t give it to someone in a scrum who tipped it. What if Byron Scott retrieves it? Byron Scott doesn’t need the rebound.”

http://deadspin.com/5345287/the-confessions-of-an-nba-scorekeeper

I could find more, but you get the point. Much (but not all) of this was removed in the playoffs. How does Rodman stack up now?

Wilt playoffs:
1959-60 16.8
1960-61 14.9
1961-62 17.7
1963-64 18.1
1964-65 19.0
1965-66 21.7
1966-67 19.4
1967-68 18.1
1968-69 18.1
1969-70 17.2
1970-71 16.2
1971-72 17.1
1972-73 18.8

AVG: 17.97

PER36: 13.71

Rodman playoffs:
1986-87 4.6
1987-88 5.8
1988-89 9.6
1989-90 8.4
1990-91 12.0
1991-92 10.4
1993-94 15.8
1994-95 15.2
1995-96 14.4
1996-97 8.6
1997-98 12.4

AVG: 10.06

PER36: 12.80

WOW! Wilt Per36 minutes was actually a better rebounder than Dennis Rodman for his playoffs career! Rodman still might be a better rebounder some years than Wilt and still this isn’t quite as accurate as REB% but its still puts EVERYTHING in perspective. Especially since Wilt eclipses Rodman in nearly every facet of the game itself. Wilt even played 4 playoffs (where many of his games were played) after a career threatening injury.

[kshutts1]

[QUOTE=julizaver]

Rodman is still clearly ahead, of course there are reasons for that. Blatant stat-padding such as ripping rebounds out of teammates hands, not boxing out his man and going to the side he felt the ball would go to, missing layups and tip ins on purpose, aborting the offense, not coming on help defense and grabbing every end of quarter heave and free throw miss that he could. I

[LAZERUSS]

[QUOTE=julizaver]Did you took into account the team rebounds. Denis Rodman was the rebounding phenomen of his era and he really is a GOAT level rebounder. But he is not far ahead of Wilt and Bill as this data sugests.

I copied that post from http://skepticalsports.com/the-case-for-dennis-rodman-part-14-c-rodman-v-ancient-history/ :

First off, in your Rodman vs. Ancient History the model is completely wrong because TEAM REBOUNDS were kept into league averages until the 1968-69 season, thus inflating the number of rebounds available per game in comparison to the 1980s/90s in which Dennis Rodman played.
For instance: I will find the sum rebounds for the players in 1963 (Wilt

[julizaver]

Take those same rebounding qualities, turn them in to scoring qualities, and that player is now... Michael Jordan.
Jordan was known to score when there were players open, under the basket, for a layup.
Jordan aborts the offense regularly.
Jordan keeps the ball in fast-break situations.
Coaches have to BEG Jordan to pass the ball to his teammates. It's a legit, documented battle to make him pass.

All of those qualities make Jordan a "killer" and "alpha" and "da goat". The same qualities translated to rebounds make Rodman a stat-padder whose successes should be overlooked.

Please. Be. Consistent.

Consistent ?

Why do you mess MJ here ? Off course he was selfish as all scorers are - otherwise he can not have 30 ppg career average over 1000 games.
Rodman was the rebounding phenomen of the 90s and I just copy pasted interesting article about him and other all-time great rebounders. Everything below the link is not my own words, it is from the link.

Anyway to add to the thread: For me the best undersized rebounder of all-time is Charles Barkley.
His rebounding average in the postseason per 36 min is 11.7, while Rodman is 12.6. Which is not far cry distance, considering the fact that Barkley do a lot more on the field.