Could Wilt do this?

[Dr Hawk]

https://scontent-mad1-1.cdninstagram.com/hphotos-xaf1/t51.2885-15/e35/11906356_929233987147625_1153551698_n.jpg

It is Hassan Whiteside

[ISHGoat]

Great times to be huge long and black.

[Rake2204]

I know the original post was meant as a joke or something along those lines but I was curious anyway. It seems Chamberlain likely would have been pretty close by the time he was in the NBA, particularly if he had a breakaway rim to work with.

http://i26.tinypic.com/1564gfq.jpg

[AirFederer]

Inb4 wall of text, myths, quotes and stats.

[Marchesk]

Draft Express shows Whiteside with a 9'5" standing reach at 6'11.5" with shoes back in 2010.

Wilt was 7'1" without shoes and standing reach of 9'7". So unless Whiteside has grown a few inches, then yes.

Also, it shoes Whiteside had a 31.5" vertical. Cavs figured Russell and Wilt both had a 39 inch vertical based on how high they could get on the backboard, according to a 1968 newspaper article.

[LoneyROY7]

Draft Express shows Whiteside with a 9'5" standing reach at 6'11.5" with shoes back in 2010.

Wilt was 7'1" without shoes and standing reach of 9'7". So unless Whiteside has grown a few inches, then yes.

Also, it shoes Whiteside had a 31.5" vertical. Cavs figured Russell and Wilt both had a 39 inch vertical based on how high they could get on the backboard, according to a 1968 newspaper article.

:oldlol:

Real concrete stuff right there.

[aj1987]

:oldlol:

Real concrete stuff right there.
:oldlol: :oldlol:

[CavaliersFTW]

Draft Express shows Whiteside with a 9'5" standing reach at 6'11.5" with shoes back in 2010.

Wilt was 7'1" without shoes and standing reach of 9'7". So unless Whiteside has grown a few inches, then yes.

Also, it shoes Whiteside had a 31.5" vertical. Cavs figured Russell and Wilt both had a 39 inch vertical based on how high they could get on the backboard, according to a 1968 newspaper article.
Whiteside's reach was taken in his shoes too. So without shoes he's likely got a 9' 3 and 3/4" reach.

Wilt's 9' 6" reach was also likely taken in shoes, however Converse All-Stars are quite a bit thinner than modern 1.25" shoes. He's probably got a 9' 5.5" reach without shoes.

But the answer to OP's question is no, Wilt could not do that, because break-away rims that tilt down under pressure did not exist in his era.

[Marchesk]

:oldlol:

Real concrete stuff right there.

If a newspaper was all to go on, then you're right. But there's enough video and photo evidence, along with track results to believe that Wilt and Russell could at least jump that high. And their peers certainly thought they could get pretty high. All evidence, anecdotal or not, points to Wilt and Russell being extremely athletic bigs, in any era.

[Elosha]

Draft Express shows Whiteside with a 9'5" standing reach at 6'11.5" with shoes back in 2010.

Wilt was 7'1" without shoes and standing reach of 9'7". So unless Whiteside has grown a few inches, then yes.

Also, it shoes Whiteside had a 31.5" vertical. Cavs figured Russell and Wilt both had a 39 inch vertical based on how high they could get on the backboard, according to a 1968 newspaper article.

Yes, but no actual evidence seen in dunks or blocks supports that Russell or Wilt had a 39 inch vertical. That would put Wilt's head 4 inches over the rim, and thus far, I have never seen a picture or video of his head even being rim level. Wilt was a great athlete, but we have to take some of these overwhelming/astounding claims with a grain of salt. I think there's even less reason to believe Russell had a 39 inch vertical.

And as I've stated before, the poorly imaged/grainy videos of blocks from the opposite side of the floor and over the rim (which even then appear to show his head below rim level) are commonly known to exaggerate the perception of how high a player's head is. No way those can be legitimately used to suggest Wilt got rim level or his hand up to 13 feet. Bottom line is Wilt probably had a max vertical of 33-35 inches. In general, centers like Shaq, David Robinson, Howard, and DeAndre Jordan appear to be more explosive and better overall leapers than Wilt and Russell. Doesn't mean that Wilt and Russell were not great athletes in many other respects.

At this point, we have probably hundreds of dunks/blocks on video and pictures for Wilt. I am more persuaded by them than newspaper articles.

[CavaliersFTW]

Yes, but no actual evidence seen in dunks or blocks supports that Russell or Wilt had a 39 inch vertical.
Given the context of rarity of maximum verticality in a game situation the evidence does support it and by landslide. For Wilt at least, I haven't payed as much attention yet to Russell so I won't comment on him.

Rarely does any player ever jump their absolute maximum near the rim during a basketball game under any condition in the course of their career let alone in only a roughly 28 game sample size. If your expectations are to see a 39 inch vertical on display from "98% of career is missing" 1960's centers particularly two that didn't like to "hotdog" (in the mold of say, a Dawkins or Shaq or a Deandre Jordan) therefore would never jump as high as they could on the offensive end to begin with, than your expectations are ridiculous.

Let's ignore known verticals of any player for a second. How many plays in any players careers have lead fans to re-watch over and over and lead them to declare them as freak status head at the rim leapers? I mean head at/above the rim type plays. The number of game sample size it requires to FINALLY see a player like Lebron, or Shaq, or MJ to actually get their head at or near the rim and jump as high as possible is A LOT. Their entire careers exist on film yet there are only a HANDFUL of examples of them jumping with maximum vertical effort in close proximity to something we can gauge their height with.

I've watched 5 complete games of young "freak athlete / 36" Vertical" Shaq recently and in not a single one of them does he jump even close to as high as 36 year old Wilt jumps in the 1973 NBA all-star game. And one of those games I'm talking about is a 1993 Chicago Bulls game in the SAME auditorium using the same camera positioning, and he even blocks a shot in the same exact spot. His hand isn't near as high as Wilt's got in relation to the backboard. Why is that do you think? Is his 36 inch vertical bullshit?

No. Players just rarely give maximum vertical effort in a way that fans can see while a game is happening. To expect to see it from 1960's film is ridiculous. What I can tell you is that in a 28 game sample size covering Shaq's career, I'd bet my left testicle you you'd see a lower average height of blocked shots and verticality than from Wilt. And Shaq had a measured 36 inch vertical in the draft. Wilt's being ~39 or w/e, is not implausible, film based on his average verticality in relation to other great leaping players such as Shaq does support it.

[GIF REACTION]

Wilt comes up short

[Nuff Said]

It is common knowledge that competitive sports brings out the best in people physically. I would think with the adrenaline pumping, one would jump higher in game than he would just trying to set a vertical leap record alone. I usually see people stretch hard for wild oops or to block high shots. I definitely have strained myself jumping with all my might in game.

[CavaliersFTW]

At this point, we have probably hundreds of dunks/blocks on video and pictures for Wilt. I am more persuaded by them than newspaper articles.
It's hundreds of routine plays that would never make a modern YouTubers or NBA highlight video had Wilt's entire career existed on film. 2% of his career exists on film, that means only the very top 2% of what has been released would even qualify for a Wilt top 100 type of video (be it top 100 dunks, or top 100 blocked shots, or w/e) and the top plays Wilt has made that we're lucky to see are insane. Blocking skyhooks, blocking two handed dunks by 270lb players like Walt Bellamy, reaching nearly the top of the backboard, catching shots in mid air. 98% of his career is missing yet that insane type of stuff exists. I think he gets as high or higher than "36" vert" Shaq in any play Shaq has ever made despite most of Shaq's career existing on film, yet it comes from only a 2% sample size of Wilt.

[Marchesk]

In general, centers like Shaq, David Robinson, Howard, and DeAndre Jordan appear to be more explosive and better overall leapers than Wilt and Russell.

Doesn't appear that way to me. Now, those four do have more modern video with breakaway rims in an era of facials and ESPN highlights, but even with all that, they don't seem to eclipse Wilt or Russell's athleticism.


I think there's even less reason to believe Russell had a 39 inch vertical.

Russell could high jump 6'9" before the Fosbury flop, back in 1956.


Yes, but no actual evidence seen in dunks or blocks supports that Russell or Wilt had a 39 inch vertical. That would put Wilt's head 4 inches over the rim, and thus far, I have never seen a picture or video of his head even being rim level.

There's one video of a block where Wilt looks shoulder level with the back of the rim. That being the shoulder for the arm he's extending to block a jump shot at it's apex which he catches on the way down. This was two footed off one step. Here's a colored in frame from that video:

http://s14.postimg.org/887bx3rw1/wilt_top_backboard.jpg

[Elosha]

Given the context of rarity of maximum verticality in a game situation the evidence does support it and by landslide. For Wilt at least, I haven't payed as much attention yet to Russell so I won't comment on him.

Rarely does any player ever jump their absolute maximum near the rim during a basketball game under any condition in the course of their career let alone in only a roughly 28 game sample size. If your expectations are to see a 39 inch vertical on display from "98% of career is missing" 1960's centers particularly two that didn't like to "hotdog" (in the mold of say, a Dawkins or Shaq or a Deandre Jordan) therefore would never jump as high as they could on the offensive end to begin with, than your expectations are ridiculous.

Let's ignore known verticals of any player for a second. How many plays in any players careers have lead fans to re-watch over and over and lead them to declare them as freak status head at the rim leapers? I mean head at/above the rim type plays. The number of game sample size it requires to FINALLY see a player like Lebron, or Shaq, or MJ to actually get their head at or near the rim and jump as high as possible is A LOT. Their entire careers exist on film yet there are only a HANDFUL of examples of them jumping with maximum vertical effort in close proximity to something we can gauge their height with.

I've watched 5 complete games of young "freak athlete / 36" Vertical" Shaq recently and in not a single one of them does he jump even close to as high as 36 year old Wilt jumps in the 1973 NBA all-star game. And one of those games I'm talking about is a 1993 Chicago Bulls game in the SAME auditorium using the same camera positioning, and he even blocks a shot in the same exact spot. His hand isn't near as high as Wilt's got in relation to the backboard. Why is that do you think? Is his 36 inch vertical bullshit?

No. Players just rarely give maximum vertical effort in a way that fans can see while a game is happening. To expect to see it from 1960's film is ridiculous. What I can tell you is that in a 28 game sample size covering Shaq's career, I'd bet my left testicle you you'd see a lower average height of blocked shots and verticality than from Wilt. And Shaq had a measured 36 inch vertical in the draft. Wilt's being ~39 or w/e, is not implausible, film based on his average verticality in relation to other great leaping players such as Shaq does support it.

Hey Cavs, if you've read my posts, you know I have utmost respect for Wilt and Russell and think they are all time greats. But truly, Wilt wasn't the best at every aspect of the game. I think anyone who is unbiased can look at Shaq and other very athletic centers and see a difference in the level of explosiveness in their dunks vs Wilt or Russell's dunks. Doesn't mean they were necessarily better players though.

As to your points in bold about Shaq above. I hate to burst your bubble, but I will simply post the quote I've provided before with links of Shaq's head clearly at rim level and hand near top of backboard. BTW, there are a number of other dunks in which Shaq quite likely is at rim level, but the angle provided doesn't clearly show it. Even in Shaq's day, there weren't often 5 or 6 angles of each dunk, like today's cameras. Wilt's footage and pics simply provide no such evidence.


I think this is a very close contest, and one in which both greats should be given their due respect. But the above bold portion is wrong in my opinion. Shaq was an incredible leaper for his size, and in my opinion was more explosive than Chamberlain, based on the footage we have. I have to discount horrible across court camera angles that show Wilt blocking shots at "rim level" "top of the backboard" when such angles are known to greatly exaggerate how high the player jumps. Pretty much every good angle of Wilt dunking or blocking shows him well below the rim. Not to say that he couldn't get that high, but we've got a fairly good amount of footage of his dunks/blocks and I've yet to see him clearly at rim level. Shaq on the other hand has multiple such dunks, such as: (watch the replays)

https://youtu.be/eVycsmQuoPA?t=66
(head at rim level, hand if extended very close to top of backboard)

https://youtu.be/nZ-ho8-Xnno?t=274 (extremely close to rim level off a spin move away from his man:applause: )

https://youtu.be/aSI7NpnhkXQ?t=258
(block in college, not the greatest angle, but he's definitely way up there)

By the way Cavs, in these two VIDEOS ALONE, you see probably dozens of facial dunks, sometimes over and through two or more defenders while being fouled. Wilt was a powerful dunker in his own right, but for my money there has never been a more powerful and devastating dunker than Shaq.

Now who is better between the two is another question that I don't have time for right now...

[CavaliersFTW]

Hey Cavs, if you've read my posts, you know I have utmost respect for Wilt and Russell and think they are all time greats. But truly, Wilt wasn't the best at every aspect of the game. I think anyone who is unbiased can look at Shaq and other very athletic centers and see a difference in the level of explosiveness in their dunks vs Wilt or Russell's dunks. Doesn't mean they were necessarily better players though.

As to your points in bold about Shaq above. I hate to burst your bubble, but I will simply post the quote I've provided before with links of Shaq's head clearly at rim level and hand near top of backboard. BTW, there are a number of other dunks in which Shaq quite likely is at rim level, but the angle provided doesn't clearly show it. Even in Shaq's day, there weren't often 5 or 6 angles of each dunk, like today's cameras. Wilt's footage and pics simply provide no such evidence.
I've read your posts and I actually think you've got an unusually difficult time comprehending the concept of sample size and how it pertains to finding great or outstanding plays such as players jumping as high as they can.

As I said I can watch 5 complete games of rookie Shaq and not find a single play that would indicate to me he had the verticality even of a 36 year old Chamberlain. You picking a few plays here and there of Shaq getting his head rim level or w/e from a sample the size of his entire career, or entire several hundred great games worth of highlights that have made it onto YouTube doesn't take away from the point I made. All I can do is conclude you still aren't understanding the point. And if you think I think Wilt is the best at everything, than you don't understand my position on what Wilt was or wasn't good at in regards to basketball either.

[Marchesk]

Both the NCAA and the NBA outlawed free throw dunking in response to Wilt, whether that was based on rumours or Wilt actually doing that at some point in a game (whether in high school or college).

[Elosha]

Doesn't appear that way to me. Now, those four do have more modern video with breakaway rims in an era of facials and ESPN highlights, but even with all that, they don't seem to eclipse Wilt or Russell's athleticism.



Russell could high jump 6'9" before the Fosbury flop, back in 1956.



There's one video of a block where Wilt looks shoulder level with the back of the rim. That being the shoulder for the arm he's extending to block a jump shot at it's apex which he catches on the way down. This was two footed off one step. Here's a colored in frame from that video:

http://s14.postimg.org/887bx3rw1/wilt_top_backboard.jpg

Sorry but that doctored up image and horrible camera angle proves nothing to me. I can show you multiple examples of the same camera angle appearing to show someone really high, and then a better angle showing them 3-5 inches lower. It's like that video of Lebron appearing to have his shoulder above the rim (like a foot above the rim) to catch an alley oop pass but then when shown directly in front of and parallel to the rim, it shows him only an inch or two above the rim. (Still an insane jump)

Wilt in this photo is likely 3-5 inches lower or even more than the exaggerated picture, and even here with this clearly distorted angle, I don't think it show his head any higher than rim level, at best. And that's being extremely generous. So I think it's likely showing again, a 33-35 inch jump.

It's really a question about what standards of quality one will take to support their position, based on their own self-interest in the inquiry. Proponents who want to believe a proposition and are personally vested in believing it will accept more questionable evidence more readily. It's human nature.

[CavaliersFTW]

Both the NCAA and the NBA outlawed free throw dunking in response to Wilt, whether that was based on rumours or Wilt actually doing that at some point in a game (whether in high school or college).
Tex Winter has straight up said he witnessed it happen, and issued the motion for the rule change. He was the chairmen of basketball rules and regulations in 1955/56. So it's not based on a rumor, it's based on the first hand eyewitness account of HOF coach Tex Winter. During a freshman varsity game or freshman varsity game practice or something.

Of course, don't be surprised if some posters here are confused as to why we don't see it in a 28 out of 1,300+ career games sample size...

[Asukal]

Oh great here we are again talking about ILt's physical mumbo jumbo that didn't help him win more than 2. Yes guys he also ****ed 20000 women, he said so himself so it might be true. :rolleyes:

[Marchesk]

Wilt in this photo is likely 3-5 inches lower or even more than the exaggerated picture, and even here with this clearly distorted angle, I don't think it show his head any higher than rim level, at best. And that's being extremely generous. So I think it's likely showing again, a 33-35 inch jump.

Even if so, that's around 28 inches above the rim, given Wilt's standing reach (9'6"), which makes it 12'4". Wilt has his entire hand around the ball and catches it on the way down.

12'4" to me is impressive as hell given that he took one step in response to a rebound and jump shot in the middle of a game from a defensive position, as opposed to running full steam down the court and leaping high for an alley oop.

That video is what convinced me that Wilt was a lot better leaper than many were crediting him with. And then his various track times, and other videos where he catches up to and passes guards sprinting down the court. It's also what all of his basketball peers had to say about him.

[Elosha]

I've read your posts and I actually think you've got an unusually difficult time comprehending the concept of sample size and how it pertains to finding great or outstanding plays such as players jumping as high as they can.

As I said I can watch 5 complete games of rookie Shaq and not find a single play that would indicate to me he had the verticality even of a 36 year old Chamberlain. You picking a few plays here and there of Shaq getting his head rim level or w/e from a sample the size of his entire career, or entire several hundred great games worth of highlights that have made it onto YouTube doesn't take away from the point I made. All I can do is conclude you still aren't understanding the point. And if you think I think Wilt is the best at everything, than you don't understand my position on what Wilt was or wasn't good at in regards to basketball either.

Look with all due respect, you and I completely disagree on this. What I'm saying is you've provided hundreds of dunks of Wilt and cannot point to one in which he is clearly rim level. Indeed, someone who could get his head four inches above the rim should routinely get his head pretty close to rim level or rim level like DeAndre Jordan (who's only 6;10"). And indeed, in the vast majority of Wilt's dunks he is nowhere close to rim level. So you either have to take the very strained position that in all of these hundreds of dunks Wilt simply never really exerted himself at all, or simply conclude that it's not likely that Wilt had anywhere close to a 50, 48, or even 39 inch vertical, all of which have been claimed by Wilt and/or his fans over the years.

As to your point that you raise ad nauseum that only 2% of Wilt's footage exists. That's all well and good and I am certainly open to changing my position if new evidence shows up. But the current state of the evidence doesn't support that Wilt had a 39 inch vertical, and we certainly have enough footage to make an educated opinion.

And I don't know why you are discounting Shaq's rim level dunks, when you claimed basically that you couldn't find any and that Wilt appears to jump higher. I directly rebutted your claim and can give you additional (although not quite as clear) evidence that Shaq jumped that high. Was it routine? No not really, but it wasn't infrequent either. And to be honest, I bet you can find almost as many dunks on the internet for Wilt as you can for Shaq. It's actually shocking how few highlight/dunk videos and full games there are online for a player of Shaq's caliber. There's nowhere near "hundreds of games" available, as you suggest.

Sampling size arguments can only be taken so far. If you want to assert something as a fact, and you've got hundreds of examples to illustrate it but cannot, there's a pretty obvious trend from which to draw conclusions.

[Elosha]

Even if so, that's around 28 inches above the rim, given Wilt's standing reach (9'6"), which makes it 12'4". Wilt has his entire hand around the ball and catches it on the way down.

12'4" to me is impressive as hell given that he took one step in response to a rebound and jump shot in the middle of a game from a defensive position, as opposed to running full steam down the court and leaping high for an alley oop.

That video is what convinced me that Wilt was a lot better leaper than many were crediting him with. And then his various track times, and other videos where he catches up to and passes guards sprinting down the court. It's also what all of his basketball peers had to say about him.

And what's wrong with my opinion that he likely has a 33-35 inch max vertical? That would still make him very athletic for a center. In my opinion only a few centers in NBA history clearly demonstrate better leaping ability than Wilt. It's just annoying when Wilt proponents have to insist that he was the absolute best at every aspect of everything. It simply isn't true.

As for dunking from the foul line, given his height and arm length, he could probably do it jumping only 28-30 inches off the ground. An impressive feat, but nothing earth-shattering in terms of absolute athleticism. Seven footers are doing it today in dunk contests.

[CavaliersFTW]

And what's wrong with my opinion that he likely has a 33-35 inch max vertical? That would still make him very athletic for a center. In my opinion only a few centers in NBA history clearly demonstrate better leaping ability than Wilt. It's just annoying when Wilt proponents have to insist that he was the absolute best at every aspect of everything. It simply isn't true.

As for dunking from the foul line, given his height and arm length, he could probably do it jumping only 28-30 inches off the ground. An impressive feat, but nothing earth-shattering in terms of absolute athleticism. Seven footers are doing it today in dunk contests.
Because you're basing it off poor logic and reasoning due to to not understanding sample size of career footage, and how it relates to available film of great leaps by centers. You're also discarding quite a bit of testimony that suggests a much higher vertical than 32-35 inches.

Such as specific max reach numbers like 12 feet 6 inches as a Junior in the NCAA, 13 feet his rookie NBA season, and 12 feet 9 inches his 9th NBA season.

All of these, even if ball park figures, are 36, 41, and 39 inches.

Isn't it odd that 3 independently cited figures of his maximum reach are all higher than your guesstimate? He's a high jumper. He's a lot better leaper than Joakim Noah has ever displayed in an NBA game that's for sure. And your estimated leaping range is lower than that of Joakim Noah. When has Noah ever jumped 35 inches in a game?

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Joakim-Noah-589/

[AirFederer]

:applause:



Sorry but that doctored up image and horrible camera angle proves nothing to me. I can show you multiple examples of the same camera angle appearing to show someone really high, and then a better angle showing them 3-5 inches lower. It's like that video of Lebron appearing to have his shoulder above the rim (like a foot above the rim) to catch an alley oop pass but then when shown directly in front of and parallel to the rim, it shows him only an inch or two above the rim. (Still an insane jump)

Wilt in this photo is likely 3-5 inches lower or even more than the exaggerated picture, and even here with this clearly distorted angle, I don't think it show his head any higher than rim level, at best. And that's being extremely generous. So I think it's likely showing again, a 33-35 inch jump.

It's really a question about what standards of quality one will take to support their position, based on their own self-interest in the inquiry. Proponents who want to believe a proposition and are personally vested in believing it will accept more questionable evidence more readily. It's human nature.

[Elosha]

Because you're basing it off poor logic and reasoning due to to not understanding sample size of career footage, and how it relates to available film of great leaps by centers. You're also discarding quite a bit of testimony that suggests a much higher vertical than 32-35 inches.

Such as specific max reach numbers like 12 feet 6 inches as a Junior in the NCAA, and 12 feet 9 inches his 9th NBA season, and 13 feet his rookie NBA season.

All of these, even if ball park figures, are 36, 39 and 41 inches.

Isn't it odd that 3 independently cited figures of his maximum reach are all a hell of a lot higher than your guesstimate?

Hey I'd appreciate it if you'd calm down a bit and back off personal attacks. I've already eviscerated your claim as to Shaq's supposedly lower vertical, so attacking my logic and reasoning is not a sound strategy for you.

If you want to rely on old second hand newspaper citations with no video or picture support after hundreds of examples to demonstrate otherwise, that's fine. I will leave myself free to change my opinion if new evidence surfaces. Perhaps Wilt really could jump 39 or more inches. But nothing in actual footage supports it.

[Elosha]

Because you're basing it off poor logic and reasoning due to to not understanding sample size of career footage, and how it relates to available film of great leaps by centers. You're also discarding quite a bit of testimony that suggests a much higher vertical than 32-35 inches.

Such as specific max reach numbers like 12 feet 6 inches as a Junior in the NCAA, 13 feet his rookie NBA season, and 12 feet 9 inches his 9th NBA season.

All of these, even if ball park figures, are 36, 41, and 39 inches.

Isn't it odd that 3 independently cited figures of his maximum reach are all higher than your guesstimate? He's a high jumper. He's a lot better leaper than Joakim Noah has ever displayed in an NBA game that's for sure. And your estimated leaping range is lower than that of Joakim Noah. When has Noah ever jumped 35 inches in a game?

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Joakim-Noah-589/

Why in the world are you talking about Joakim Noah??? Who said anything about him?

[CavaliersFTW]

Look with all due respect, you and I completely disagree on this. What I'm saying is you've provided hundreds of dunks of Wilt and cannot point to one in which he is clearly rim level.
Why would Wilt do excessive things like dunk with his head at rim level in his career when hotdogging during his time was a no no in his era and all he need to to do was jump a few inches to dunk for the same 2 points.

Some of the things you've said in this thread are ridiculous. You fail completely to understand how little the sample size is of Wilt because I took every known basket and put it onto film. It's still only 28 games worth. Out of 1,300+. And I still haven't done something similar for his blocked shots. Though some amazing plays do exist, 98% of what you saw was just routine stuff. If you can't understand that all I can do is write you off as someone who isn't a very sound critical thinker. Watch 28 random games of Joakim Noah, a "37.5 inch vertical" player and tell me how many times his hand goes above the square or his head goes above the rim. You're not as smart as you think you are trying to catch these kinds of plays to evaluate vertical leap.

[CavaliersFTW]

Why in the world are you talking about Joakim Noah??? Who said anything about him?
Because he has a 37 and a half inch vertical. Ever see his head one and a half inches above the rim? Yes? No? If so, how many games does it take for him to reveal such a vertical jump. One in every.... several hundred? Has he ever even done it in a game? Hmmm.

You tell me why I brought him up. Could it be that I am exposing the error in your logic perhaps? If you don't get this I'm at a loss for words.

[warriorfan]

:lebronamazed:

Elosha be ethering these ilt stans

[Elosha]

Why would Wilt do excessive things like dunk with his head at rim level in his career when hotdogging during his time was a no no in his era and all he need to to do was jump a few inches to dunk for the same 2 points.

Some of the things you've said in this thread are ridiculous. You fail completely to understand how little the sample size is of Wilt because I took every known basket and put it onto film. It's still only 28 games worth. Out of 1,300+. And I still haven't done something similar for his blocked shots. Though some amazing plays do exist, 98% of what you saw was just routine stuff. If you can't understand that all I can do is write you off as someone who isn't a very sound critical thinker. Watch 28 random games of Joakim Noah, a "37.5 inch vertical" player and tell me how many times his hand goes above the square or his head goes above the rim. You're not as smart as you think you are trying to catch these kinds of plays to evaluate vertical leap.


Ok I'm done with you. You are basically throwing a childish temper tantrum now. I'm a practicing attorney of 15 years, running my own law firm, and engaged in sophisticated "thinking" every day. I've watched far more basketball than you over the course of my life. I will be respectful, but for you to question my critical thinking skills is laughable. To the contrary, I've supported my arguments and you have been reduced to nothing but quibbling insults and babbling on about Noah. You've lost some of my respect I had for you tonight.

[Elosha]

Because he has a 37 and a half inch vertical. Ever see his head one and a half inches above the rim? Yes? No? If so, how many games does it take for him to reveal such a vertical jump. One in every.... several hundred? Has he ever even done it in a game? Hmmm.

You tell me why I brought him up. Could it be that I am exposing the error in your logic perhaps? If you don't get this I'm at a loss for words.

Oh this was your point? This is the last thing I'll say on this. You just shot yourself in the foot. Noah has nowhere near a 37.5 inch vertical, he's never been at rim level. I can say this as a Bulls fan who's watched his games and highlights for years.

And that demonstrates to you - once again - why you should take Wilt's purported vertical measurements with more than a grain of salt.

[CavaliersFTW]

Ok I'm done with you. You are basically throwing a childish temper tantrum now. I'm a practicing attorney of 15 years, running my own law firm, and engaged in sophisticated "thinking" every day. I've watched far more basketball than you over the course of my life. I will be respectful, but for you to question my critical thinking skills is laughable. To the contrary, I've supported my arguments and you have been reduced to nothing but quibbling insults and babbling on about Noah. You've lost some of my respect I had for you tonight.
I'm genuinely questioning your critical thinking skills here in this specific instance when you can't see the potential error in evaluation of vertical leap in players based on game film. Extremely limited game film at that. I provided examples of why there is in error in your logic. The Joakim Noah comparison. A player with a measured 37.5 inch vertical or in other words his head should measure 1.5 inches above the rim on his best jumps. Where's the film, and how many games does it take to get it?

You challenged my reasoning, and you expect me to not challenge yours in return? As soon as I did you felt the need to throw around examples of your career. Who cares about your career. We're talking about your method for evaluating a players leaping ability. It's got nothing to do with your career. If you don't lack critical thinking in your day to day life fair enough but there are plenty of holes in your logic on this specific topic and I can cite them player by player. Players who measured to have head-at-rim athleticism that never "show" it during game-time as you are expecting to see with Chamberlain.

[CavaliersFTW]

Oh this was your point? This is the last thing I'll say on this. You just shot yourself in the foot. Noah has nowhere near a 37.5 inch vertical, he's never been at rim level. I can say this as a Bulls fan who's watched his games and highlights for years.

And that demonstrates to you - once again - why you should take Wilt's purported vertical measurements with more than a grain of salt.
I didn't shoot myself in the foot, I made a valid point.

He is documented with a 37.5 inch maximum reach: http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Joakim-Noah-589/

He is not the only player with a documented maximum reach that is never and/or only rarely put on display during the course of a basketball game. What it says to me, is that maximum leaps are not so common by a great deal of players in basketball. If it says to you that the numbers are wrong, that is where we disagree. I think there is little to no link between game film and vertical leap measurements. I don't believe the majority of players jump their highest during games frequently at all, let alone near a frame of reference such as the rim. If you do, browse around www.draftexpress.com/measurements for a bit. Either there's a lot of bad data in the draft vertical tests, or your method for evaluating a players maximum leaping ability isn't very reliable.

[warriorfan]

Cavs, Elosha has you by the balls.

All of your "evidence" is hearsay or speculation.

Case closed.

[GIF REACTION]

warriorfan

[CavaliersFTW]

Cavs, Elosha has you by the balls.

All of your "evidence" is hearsay or speculation.

Case closed.
Nah, he's a decent poster but I believe there's a lot of holes in what he's attempting to suggest by drawing a solid connection to vertical leap and game film, particularly limited game film. I'd be dishonest with myself if I didn't try and point it out as it is something I've thought about prior to him even making these posts.

I address and respond to him because many of his opinions are actually worth listening to. Yours on the other hand, in regards to topics about Wilt Chamberlain and 1960's basketball which you merely post about to make fun of, mean about as much as a fly on the wall. You and about about 5 posters on here make Wilt topics so often I think you guys were his biggest fans, in a weird Freudian kind of way.

[warriorfan]

Nah, he's a decent poster but I believe there's a lot of holes in what he's attempting to suggest by drawing a solid connection to vertical leap and game film, particularly limited game film. I'd be dishonest with myself if I didn't try and point it out as it is something I've thought about prior to him even making these posts.

I address and respond to him because many of his opinions are actually worth listening to. Yours on the other hand, in regards to topics about Wilt Chamberlain and 1960's basketball which you merely post about to make fun of, mean about as much as a fly on the wall. You and about about 5 posters on here make Wilt topics so often I think you guys were his biggest fans, in a weird Freudian kind of way.

Keep taking hearsay as factual evidence. Keep speculating. Keep melting down.

[CavaliersFTW]

Keep taking hearsay as factual evidence. Keep speculating. Keep melting down.
Hearsay is not what I post.

I typically post direct eyewitness accounts. AKA eyewitness testimony. There's an exponential difference in credibility.

[warriorfan]

Hearsay is not what I post.

I typically post direct eyewitness accounts. AKA eyewitness testimony. There's an exponential difference in credibility.

Actually half of your supposed evidence is made up of anecdotes that have passed through more people than Magic Johnson's strain of HIV.

Eyewitness testimony, especially that of 40+ years ago has been proven to be highly inaccurate. That combined with the agenda the storyteller has to make the story sound larger than life (a characteristic of men that you are very intimate with.) I actually remember you making a post in the off topic forum about how you think everyone including yourself tells half truths to make themselves look better.The thread you made described this in great detail so you should understand this concept quite well.

[CavaliersFTW]

Actually half of your supposed evidence is made up of anecdotes that have passed through more people than Magic Johnson's strain of HIV.

Eyewitness testimony, especially that of 40+ years ago has been proven to be highly inaccurate. That combined with the agenda the storyteller has to make the story sound larger than life (a characteristic of men that you are very intimate with.) I actually remember you making a post in the off topic forum about how you think everyone including yourself tells half truths to make themselves look better.The thread you made described this in great detail so you should understand this concept quite well.
The stories I've talked about or put into videos begin with "I saw". Not "I heard".

And you're mistaking me for someone else.

[warriorfan]

The stories I've talked about or put into videos begin with "I saw". Not "I heard".

And you're mistaking me for someone else.

Cavs being dishonest?

What a shocker. :roll:

[CavaliersFTW]

Cavs being dishonest?

What a shocker. :roll:
Yeah that's what I'm known as, that dishonest guy. And rest assured nobody pays attention to me because of my dishonesty.

[Marchesk]

Russell doesn't get his head that high here, but you can tell he has a good vertical:

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-muBTWfpvsX4/UQyXi-WkPII/AAAAAAAAEGw/g82s34nOw-A/s800/RussDunk2.gif

[Marchesk]

Actually half of your supposed evidence is made up of anecdotes that have passed through more people than Magic Johnson's strain of HIV.

Eyewitness testimony, especially that of 40+ years ago has been proven to be highly inaccurate. That combined with the agenda the storyteller has to make the story sound larger than life (a characteristic of men that you are very intimate with.) I actually remember you making a post in the off topic forum about how you think everyone including yourself tells half truths to make themselves look better.The thread you made described this in great detail so you should understand this concept quite well.

Some of that eyewitness testimony is from the 60s (meaning it was recorded back then). Anyway, there's enough combination of pictures, video, track results and anecdotal evidence from while Wilt and Russell were playing to think they had very good verticals.

But nobody can say with certainty without definitive documentation, and verticals even today can be inconsistent and misleading, depending on the standards used or who is making the claim.

[AirFederer]

Breaking news!

New evidence shows that not only could Wilt get above the rim with his head, his arms could literally get a foot or two above the backboard.

Ilt haters taking the L again.

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah267/espelid/wilt%20above%20ze%20rimming_zpsdshl8yyx.jpg (http://s1382.photobucket.com/user/espelid/media/wilt%20above%20ze%20rimming_zpsdshl8yyx.jpg.html)

[swagga]

But could wilt do this? A 60, you get that, 60, yes you read it right, SIXTY inch vertical.

I applied the scientific reprojection method used by the most mathematically literate members on this forum to compute lebron's vertical. The results were staggering.

PROOF
https://nbaobserver.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/bronrimlevel1.jpg

As you can see lebron is clearly with the shoulders above the rim. This might not be obvious but the mathematically astute poster will notice that the high camera introduces a vertical bias, which shifts the angle horizontally. Thus, taking into account his height, camera angle, and by also deducting the 1.65 inch shoes, we can safely determine that his vertical is at least 58.65 inches. Depending on the lens of the camera he might even get 60.

[swagga]

Breaking news!

New evidence shows that not only could Wilt get above the rim with his head, his arms could literally get a foot or two above the backboard.

Ilt haters taking the L again.

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah267/espelid/wilt%20above%20ze%20rimming_zpsdshl8yyx.jpg (http://s1382.photobucket.com/user/espelid/media/wilt%20above%20ze%20rimming_zpsdshl8yyx.jpg.html)

That must be his dick tbh.:applause:

you could easily slay a rhino with that, or so I've read in my grandmas first women's health edition.


EDIT my god he has 2 dikks: a tiny one for white girls and one for slaying bbw and mountain lions. He blessed doe :applause:

[Psileas]

Sorry but that doctored up image and horrible camera angle proves nothing to me. I can show you multiple examples of the same camera angle appearing to show someone really high, and then a better angle showing them 3-5 inches lower. It's like that video of Lebron appearing to have his shoulder above the rim (like a foot above the rim) to catch an alley oop pass but then when shown directly in front of and parallel to the rim, it shows him only an inch or two above the rim. (Still an insane jump)

Wilt in this photo is likely 3-5 inches lower or even more than the exaggerated picture, and even here with this clearly distorted angle, I don't think it show his head any higher than rim level, at best. And that's being extremely generous. So I think it's likely showing again, a 33-35 inch jump.

It's really a question about what standards of quality one will take to support their position, based on their own self-interest in the inquiry. Proponents who want to believe a proposition and are personally vested in believing it will accept more questionable evidence more readily. It's human nature.

For someone who's meticulous enough to deal with camera angles, you should never have used your own 3 Shaq videos as evidence, especially your first one, in which Shaq's not-even-100% stretched hand was supposedly almost touching the top of the backboard, with Shaq's head "reaching" rim level, which would happen only if Shaq could stretch his hand 3 feet above the top of his head, which isn't the case and proves that the angle is wildly exaggerated and his head is not anywhere near the rim. Shaq's 2nd dunk is the closest I've ever seen him get to the rim and his hand is nowhere near top of backboard status, not to mention it would still keep him a couple of inches short of his claimed maximum.

[Psileas]

Hey Cavs, if you've read my posts, you know I have utmost respect for Wilt and Russell and think they are all time greats. But truly, Wilt wasn't the best at every aspect of the game. I think anyone who is unbiased can look at Shaq and other very athletic centers and see a difference in the level of explosiveness in their dunks vs Wilt or Russell's dunks. Doesn't mean they were necessarily better players though.

Dunking explosively meant little in Wilt's/Russell's era. On the contrary, these guys show more explosiveness in defensive plays - especially Wilt and actually enough to spin the argument into "Wilt's defense shows a different level of explosiveness compared to Shaq's". E.g, the above pic of Wilt or other blocks like a 1971 vs the Bulls that exists on film or the 1969 ASG one vs Robertson or the ones in which he catches shots in mid air provide a better defensive jumping display than I remember Shaq ever putting on.

[AirFederer]

Could Ilt do this?

:eek: :eek: :eek:

http://ak-hdl.buzzfed.com/static/enhanced/webdr06/2013/7/3/10/anigif_enhanced-buzz-5340-1372860761-32.gif

I give you this, so make up you own mind. PS The coach hated Ilt (wonder why) that`s why his moves look so stiff :cheers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDK5VDdX-yo&t=5m5s

[AirFederer]

:eek: :eek:


Originally Posted by SilkkTheShocker
More Wilt Stories:

-Was better a badminton player than basketball player
-Climbed up Mount Everest than slid down it on a garbage can lid
-revived a coma patient by slapping him in the head with his d1ck.
- Played QB and WR at the same time in high school.
- Bowled a perfect game using a football
-played kicked ball using a medicine ball
-could light a match his his foreskin

[LAZERUSS]

So, we have a newspaper article in which Chamberlain's max reach, in 1968, was at 12' 9" (and for the record, Shaq's was 12' 5", and Dwight's was 12' 6".)

We have SEVERAL eye-witness accounts of Chamberlain touching the top of the backboard.

We have an eyewitness account, by none other than Tex Winter, in which he claims that Wilt was dunking his FTs. In fact, he was so shocked by what he saw, that he headed up a committee to ban such "freakish activity."

We know that Wilt won high-jump championships,...and doing so part-time, and with poor technique. He also participated in the long jump at KU.

We have FOOTAGE (example already shown) in which his fingertips are within a couple of inches of the top of the backboard (and with a leap without benefit of a running start), as well as FOOTAGE of Wilt getting called for a questionable goal-tend in a 1971 playoff game, in which his fingertips are above the top of the square (and this from a 34 year old Wilt, a year removed from major knee surgery, and at over 300 lbs.)

We KNOW that his college coach, Phog Allen, rolled out a 12 foot rim, and there are accounts of Wilt dunking on it.

And this famous photograph (and we don't even know if he reached his apex yet, either)...

http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n155/nombreesizzyt/highjump.jpg

But, yes, Wilt probably only had a 33-35" vertical.

[jongib369]

So, we have a newspaper article in which Chamberlain's max reach, in 1968, was at 12' 9" (and for the record, Shaq's was 12' 5", and Dwight's was 12' 6".)

We have SEVERAL eye-witness accounts of Chamberlain touching the top of the backboard.

We have an eyewitness account, by none other than Tex Winter, in which he claims that Wilt was dunking his FTs. In fact, he was so shocked by what he saw, that he headed up a committee to ban such "freakish activity."

We know that Wilt won high-jump championships,...and doing so part-time, and with poor technique. He also participated in the long jump at KU.

We have FOOTAGE (example already shown) in which his fingertips are within a couple of inches of the top of the backboard (and with a leap without benefit of a running start), as well as FOOTAGE of Wilt getting called for a questionable goal-tend in a 1971 playoff game, in which his fingertips are above the top of the square (and this from a 34 year old Wilt, a year removed from major knee surgery, and at over 300 lbs.)

We KNOW that his college coach, Phog Allen, rolled out a 12 foot rim, and there are accounts of Wilt dunking on it.

And this famous photograph (and we don't even know if he reached his apex yet, either)...

http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n155/nombreesizzyt/highjump.jpg

But, yes, Wilt probably only had a 33-35" vertical.
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=385194

Got any high school basketball stories to add there? What year did you graduate if you don't mind me asking?

[LAZERUSS]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=385194

Got any high school basketball stories to add there? What year did you graduate if you don't mind me asking?

Bill Cartwright was playing high school basketball back in my day. He would undoubtedly be a very good center today, as well.

http://www.egcitizen.com/articles/2010/04/05/sports/doc4bb2967193b44419451040.txt

https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2245&dat=19740311&id=t3wzAAAAIBAJ&sjid=KTIHAAAAIBAJ&pg=4846,829170&hl=en

[AirFederer]

So, we have a newspaper article in which Chamberlain's max reach, in 1968, was at 12' 9" (and for the record, Shaq's was 12' 5", and Dwight's was 12' 6".)

We have SEVERAL eye-witness accounts of Chamberlain touching the top of the backboard.

We have an eyewitness account, by none other than Tex Winter, in which he claims that Wilt was dunking his FTs. In fact, he was so shocked by what he saw, that he headed up a committee to ban such "freakish activity."

We know that Wilt won high-jump championships,...and doing so part-time, and with poor technique. He also participated in the long jump at KU.

We have FOOTAGE (example already shown) in which his fingertips are within a couple of inches of the top of the backboard (and with a leap without benefit of a running start), as well as FOOTAGE of Wilt getting called for a questionable goal-tend in a 1971 playoff game, in which his fingertips are above the top of the square (and this from a 34 year old Wilt, a year removed from major knee surgery, and at over 300 lbs.)

We KNOW that his college coach, Phog Allen, rolled out a 12 foot rim, and there are accounts of Wilt dunking on it.

And this famous photograph (and we don't even know if he reached his apex yet, either)...

http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n155/nombreesizzyt/highjump.jpg

But, yes, Wilt probably only had a 33-35" vertical.

Here is all the evidence you`re looking for, man. Glad I could help :cheers:

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah267/espelid/wilt%20above%20ze%20rimming_zpsdshl8yyx.jpg

[Marchesk]

Does anyone have stats on average height of a jump shot? It is really hard to tell how high the ball in that video gets.

[jongib369]

Bill Cartwright was playing high school basketball back in my day. He would undoubtedly be a very good center today, as well.

http://www.egcitizen.com/articles/2010/04/05/sports/doc4bb2967193b44419451040.txt

https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2245&dat=19740311&id=t3wzAAAAIBAJ&sjid=KTIHAAAAIBAJ&pg=4846,829170&hl=en
Thanks, I live about 7 mikes from there

:cheers:

[Elosha]

For someone who's meticulous enough to deal with camera angles, you should never have used your own 3 Shaq videos as evidence, especially your first one, in which Shaq's not-even-100% stretched hand was supposedly almost touching the top of the backboard, with Shaq's head "reaching" rim level, which would happen only if Shaq could stretch his hand 3 feet above the top of his head, which isn't the case and proves that the angle is wildly exaggerated and his head is not anywhere near the rim. Shaq's 2nd dunk is the closest I've ever seen him get to the rim and his hand is nowhere near top of backboard status, not to mention it would still keep him a couple of inches short of his claimed maximum.

Been too busy at work to catch up with all of this, but will respond in more detail later. Did want to address this. Good catch Psileas on the first Shaq dunk and how high his arm appears to be. However, I still believe it is probably an accurate representation because there was another camera angle on the same play to the side of the rim, (similar to the second video I posted) which also showed his head exactly rim level, suggesting a 35 inch leap. Unfortunately, it was not on the same video highlight I posted, it was on some random NBA highlight video I saw a couple months back and I haven't been able to find it again. If I do, I'll post it. Needless to say, a shot from directly in front of the rim and fairly close to a straight on perspective is still a far more accurate representation than the cross-court, above the rim distorted videos people are using to spuriously claim that Wilt was rim level or above or with his hands at the top of the backboard. :rolleyes:

I think the videos I've posted are pretty solid evidence that Shaq could get rim level, which is fully in line with his reported 35-36 inch vertical. It's certainly far more definitive than any actual video or pics for Wilt of which I'm aware.

If people want to insist that Wilt had a 39+ inch vertical, they should simply state that they are basing it on anecdotes and reported measurements, but that the video and photographic evidence does not clearly demonstrate it. That I could live with. It's just annoys me when supporters with a clear bias breathlessly rely on horrible camera angles and blurry distorted videos to claim that it undoubtedly shows Wilt over the rim, or at the top of the backboard, WHEN IT ABSOLUTELY DOES NOT.

But as I've said before, if Wilt really "only" had a vertical of 33-35 inches, i.e. a little less than Shaq, so what? He's still a very athletic center, and still has a case for GOAT. I wouldn't say Shaq or any other center was necessarily better players than Wilt, just because a few appear to be more explosive leapers. What I'd like here is a reasonable discussion and acknowledgement of the inherent limitations of available evidence. If new evidence surfaces showing Wilt clearly blocking or dunking at rim level, I'll be happy to amend my opinion. Of course, the onus is still on supporters to show him 4 inches over the rim necessary for a 39 inch vertical. And nothing in the considerable amount of evidence suggests a vertical nearly that high.

For now, I can at least say that centers like Shaq and a few others appears to be more explosive dunkers than Wilt. There can be any number of reasons or excuses made for that fact, but it's still just as much of a fact as stating that Wilt was better at finger rolls than Shaq. Why do I say this? Because the actual evidence supports my conclusion. I just wish biased fans on both sides could try to be more objective.

Wilt's an all time great, top of the line, among the greatest of the great. It doesn't mean some aspects of his career and playing ability aren't exaggerated. Just like MJ clearly does not have a 48 inch vertical. Tall tales arise out of any all time great.

[sd3035]

http://i26.tinypic.com/1564gfq.jpg

so, the answer is no

[sd3035]

And this famous photograph (and we don't even know if he reached his apex yet, either)...

http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n155/nombreesizzyt/highjump.jpg

But, yes, Wilt probably only had a 33-35" vertical.

his head is out of the stadium :eek:

[sd3035]

Breaking news!

New evidence shows that not only could Wilt get above the rim with his head, his arms could literally get a foot or two above the backboard.

Ilt haters taking the L again.

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah267/espelid/wilt%20above%20ze%20rimming_zpsdshl8yyx.jpg (http://s1382.photobucket.com/user/espelid/media/wilt%20above%20ze%20rimming_zpsdshl8yyx.jpg.html)

here's a picture of Vince Carter with his ankles at rim level

http://oi57.tinypic.com/f24v8w.jpg

[ClipperRevival]

his head is out of the stadium :eek:

:roll:

[ClipperRevival]

here's a picture of Vince Carter with his ankles at rim level

http://oi57.tinypic.com/f24v8w.jpg

:roll:

[jongib369]

so, the answer is no
Highschool at 6'11

[sd3035]

Wilt had a Kevin Durant physique but without the talent

https://d13beo3f7vpmvd.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Screen-shot-2011-04-29-at-3.11.53-PM-e1304104162781.png

[AirFederer]

Wilt had a Kevin Durant physique but without the talent

https://d13beo3f7vpmvd.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Screen-shot-2011-04-29-at-3.11.53-PM-e1304104162781.png
I have nothing against gays, so this is in no way critizism of his sexuality, it's just that that smile, position, the speedy and the lotioned up body that literally screams GAY!!

Well the guy once killed a pvssy so there's that.

:cheers:

[jongib369]

Wilt had a Kevin Durant physique but without the talent

https://d13beo3f7vpmvd.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Screen-shot-2011-04-29-at-3.11.53-PM-e1304104162781.png


http://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/f40f3606fa7f520417c0c9e02d7aa7a371d004ba/r=x513&c=680x510/local/-/media/USATODAY/USATODAY/2013/01/14/durant-dribbles-4_3.jpg

https://nbcprobasketballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/kevin-durant_display_image.jpeg

http://blacktopxchange.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/russ2.jpg

http://cache1.asset-cache.net/gc/72727142-wilt-chamberlain-of-the-philadelphia-76ers-gettyimages.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=OCUJ5gVf7YdJQI2Xhkc2QPB5%2fmxnUoAZ46y%2ffu9lKAcB ASskhoquiW1rCFCVF63RZBHZ8bAbzuN%2fbFsy2z9fojOWhKdn nI9Sy8zkugYc5Yc%3d

http://cache4.asset-cache.net/gc/85562799-legend-bill-russell-speaks-with-tim-duncan-of-gettyimages.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=GkZZ8bf5zL1ZiijUmxa7QZGJLB8UBKqGnYVEHqhrKFA7nfxy dPiKFa4tT8idmZWSocg5dZ6tXdOjtnOz3GvZT9goIZ6OwFg3j3 OJDdZNMDM%3d

http://cache3.asset-cache.net/gc/515102767-wilt-chamberlain-gettyimages.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=X7WJLa88Cweo9HktRLaNXq8wC96%2fYXMvZWYxgbj%2bc0xW E4Yio2IoJMekP1K4iKQnSSo2o%2fhr2BuNdRoY%2bR3%2f7A%3 d%3d

http://cache1.asset-cache.net/gc/515102761-wilt-chamberlain-gettyimages.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=X7WJLa88Cweo9HktRLaNXmt8aqiXk1zF%2bmYm11YoPvo3F8 g8Y9zh9Rr1Ytr4i9ANRdKJbXnTMmtTlOclnJrV7A%3d%3d

[sd3035]

I have nothing against gays, so this is in no way critizism of his sexuality, it's just that that smile, position, the speedy and the lotioned up body that literally screams GAY!!

Well the guy once killed a pvssy so there's that.

:cheers:

He was apparently super gay, not that there's anything wrong with it of course

[Marchesk]

I have nothing against gays, so this is in no way critizism of his sexuality, it's just that that smile, position, the speedy and the lotioned up body that literally screams GAY!!

It's easy to mistake a picture for a homosexual stirring in oneself. It's okay man. You don't have to be 100% straight these days.

[AirFederer]

It's easy to mistake a picture for a homosexual stirring in oneself. It's okay man. You don't have to be 100% straight these days.
I'll take your word for it :cheers:

[Marchesk]

I'll take your word for it :cheers:

Accidentally walked into a gay club the other night. Dudes dancing on polls and bar tenders in their underwear. Didn't feel a stirring, so I walked out.

[AirFederer]

Accidentally walked into a gay club the other night. Dudes dancing on polls and bar tenders in their underwear. Didn't feel a stirring, so I walked out.

subconscious perhaps? :cheers:

[sd3035]

Accidentally walked into a gay club the other night. Dudes dancing on polls and bar tenders in their underwear. Didn't feel a stirring, so I walked out.

uh huh

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[Marchesk]

uh huh

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Easy enough to do if you don't mind walking into new places to see what they're about and the sign out front doesn't give it away.

[AirFederer]

Easy enough to do if you don't mind walking into new places to see what they're about and the sign out front doesn't give it away.

Nothing wrong with with being curious :cheers:

[sd3035]

Easy enough to do if you don't mind walking into new places to see what they're about and the sign out front doesn't give it away.

http://i58.tinypic.com/25tj82c.jpg

[Asukal]

http://i58.tinypic.com/25tj82c.jpg

Grandpa Laz would probably input his CC number there... :oldlol:

[SyRyanYang]

http://i58.tinypic.com/25tj82c.jpg

sums it up nicely:applause:

[TheBigVeto]

Anybody who can bitchslap a mountain lion easily like bitchslapping Kobe can do that. Including Wilt.

[KembaWalker]

Anybody who can bitchslap a mountain lion easily like bitchslapping Kobe can do that. Including Wilt.

'Agrees that Kobe stans are the worst kinds of posters'

'Brings up Kobe even though the discussion isn't about him'

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[julizaver]

https://youtu.be/nZ-ho8-Xnno?t=274 (extremely close to rim level off a spin move away from his man ).

In that case I think Shaq is at rim level and the highest I have seen him.
Although as a leaper he is behind Wilt and DW.

Obviously it is hard to provide you with clear good quality photos and video of Wilt being above the rim. There is an article in the archive news about Wilt's goalthending where the referee judge against clear block for reasons of "not believing a man could jump so high, not humanly posiible".

[LAZERUSS]

In that case I think Shaq is at rim level and the highest I have seen him.
Although as a leaper he is behind Wilt and DW.

Obviously it is hard to provide you with clear good quality photos and video of Wilt being above the rim. There is an article in the archive news about Wilt's goalthending where the referee judge against clear block for reasons of "not believing a man could jump so high, not humanly posiible".

Without looking up the exact quote, the ref made the call, and Wilt's coach ran up to him to protest it. The ref said, "We both know what we just witnessed was not humanly possible."

[LAZERUSS]

Been too busy at work to catch up with all of this, but will respond in more detail later. Did want to address this. Good catch Psileas on the first Shaq dunk and how high his arm appears to be. However, I still believe it is probably an accurate representation because there was another camera angle on the same play to the side of the rim, (similar to the second video I posted) which also showed his head exactly rim level, suggesting a 35 inch leap. Unfortunately, it was not on the same video highlight I posted, it was on some random NBA highlight video I saw a couple months back and I haven't been able to find it again. If I do, I'll post it. Needless to say, a shot from directly in front of the rim and fairly close to a straight on perspective is still a far more accurate representation than the cross-court, above the rim distorted videos people are using to spuriously claim that Wilt was rim level or above or with his hands at the top of the backboard. :rolleyes:

I think the videos I've posted are pretty solid evidence that Shaq could get rim level, which is fully in line with his reported 35-36 inch vertical. It's certainly far more definitive than any actual video or pics for Wilt of which I'm aware.

If people want to insist that Wilt had a 39+ inch vertical, they should simply state that they are basing it on anecdotes and reported measurements, but that the video and photographic evidence does not clearly demonstrate it. That I could live with. It's just annoys me when supporters with a clear bias breathlessly rely on horrible camera angles and blurry distorted videos to claim that it undoubtedly shows Wilt over the rim, or at the top of the backboard, WHEN IT ABSOLUTELY DOES NOT.

But as I've said before, if Wilt really "only" had a vertical of 33-35 inches, i.e. a little less than Shaq, so what? He's still a very athletic center, and still has a case for GOAT. I wouldn't say Shaq or any other center was necessarily better players than Wilt, just because a few appear to be more explosive leapers. What I'd like here is a reasonable discussion and acknowledgement of the inherent limitations of available evidence. If new evidence surfaces showing Wilt clearly blocking or dunking at rim level, I'll be happy to amend my opinion. Of course, the onus is still on supporters to show him 4 inches over the rim necessary for a 39 inch vertical. And nothing in the considerable amount of evidence suggests a vertical nearly that high.

For now, I can at least say that centers like Shaq and a few others appears to be more explosive dunkers than Wilt. There can be any number of reasons or excuses made for that fact, but it's still just as much of a fact as stating that Wilt was better at finger rolls than Shaq. Why do I say this? Because the actual evidence supports my conclusion. I just wish biased fans on both sides could try to be more objective.

Wilt's an all time great, top of the line, among the greatest of the great. It doesn't mean some aspects of his career and playing ability aren't exaggerated. Just like MJ clearly does not have a 48 inch vertical. Tall tales arise out of any all time great.

There is enough video and photographic evidence out there to support Chamberlain's head being at least at rim level. Furthermore, there are photos and even videos of both Gilmore and Kareem with their heads at rim level, and neither were close to being as athletic as Wilt.

Of course, the "bashers" (and you are not one of them), would ask, where are the cell phone pics, or the YouTube videos, or the TMZ episodes to substantiate these claims? Albeit, again, we have some.

The real problem, though, is that there only exists about 2% of Wilt's career on video. And most of that is later in his career, as well. But there are several well-respected eye-witness accounts of Chamberlain's amazing physical skills. Sonny Hill, Monty Johnson, Al Domenico, and Tex Winter among them.

Even Kareem witnessed it...

http://articles.philly.com/1991-03-18/sports/25792007_1_chamberlain-dunk-soccer


Kareem Abdul-Jabbar: "One time (when as a teenager he saw Chamberlain playing in a Harlem summer league) I can remember like a photograph: His head was almost above the rim; there were players draped all around his neck, and it looked for all the world like the end of Moby Dick, with Gregory Peck lashed to his prey, beckoning his crew to join the quest. Wilt Chamberlain as the White Whale."


BTW, while we may disagree at times, I truly respect you as a poster here. You are among a small contingent that actually contributes with well researched opinions.

[ArbitraryWater]

http://i58.tinypic.com/25tj82c.jpg

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[LAZERUSS]

Grandpa Laz would probably input his CC number there... :oldlol:

Since it is already at the limit, they would have to put money into the account before they could use it anyway.

[ArbitraryWater]

his head is out of the stadium :eek:

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[LAZERUSS]

If there were actual footage of Wilt dunking from half-court, the "bashers" would claim... "weak era", and "short white centers."

[aj1987]

If there were actual footage of Wilt dunking from half-court, the "bashers" would claim... "weak era", and "short white centers."
Sums up Ilt's career.

[LAZERUSS]

Sums up Ilt's career.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_career_achievements_by_Wilt_Chamberlain

BTW, those are nowhere near all of Wilt's records.

[aj1987]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_career_achievements_by_Wilt_Chamberlain

BTW, those are nowhere near all of Wilt's records.
:eek: :eek:

A player that "dominant" must've won a shit load of rings, right? How many did he win, Laz?

[LAZERUSS]

:eek: :eek:

A player that "dominant" must've won a shit load of rings, right? How many did he win, Laz?

Bill Russell's teams won 11 rings...

but, take a look at this...

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1I9jddU8eNWrI8MMOPs_0l58WnjFNADvF4iIcu0Sfz7A/edit?pli=1#gid=0

And this...

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=332617


BTW, a prime Kareem only went to two Finals, and only won one ring.

[Elosha]

In that case I think Shaq is at rim level and the highest I have seen him.
Although as a leaper he is behind Wilt and DW.

Obviously it is hard to provide you with clear good quality photos and video of Wilt being above the rim. There is an article in the archive news about Wilt's goalthending where the referee judge against clear block for reasons of "not believing a man could jump so high, not humanly posiible".

Well, I prefer to believe first and foremost in physical proof. That's not to say anecdotes can't be reliable, but when they are countered by all the existing physical proof, such as the considerable amount of videoed and photographed dunks and blocks for Wilt, then I will continue to be quite skeptical of the anecdotal evidence. What I can say is that the evidence of Wilt's dunks versus someone like Shaq leads me to believe that in general Shaq dunked more explosively and jumped higher on normal dunk attempts than Wilt.

It's amazing to me how comparatively little of Shaq's career is actually online. I bet we've got less than ten percent of his overall dunks, yet I can easily post three or four other examples where he's fairly close to head at rim level, and several others that, if we had better camera angles, might again show him at rim level or even higher. Same thing with blocks, in addition to the one I posted, I can post several other occasions where's he appears close to or at rim level for blocked shots. I can't honestly say the same for Wilt, for either his dunks or blocks. For a man with a supposed 39 or more inch vertical, (which would put his head at least 4 inches over the rim) his dunks and most if not all of his blocks do not demonstrate anything close to that. Certainly not the blocks taken from cross-court and above the action, such angles are inherently distorted and exaggerated.

Again, when I say that Shaq had a vertical of 35-36 inch vertical and Wilt probably had something a couple inches less, I don't think people realize how IMPRESSIVE that still is. There's only a small handful of 7 foot centers who ever got that high. When you combine Shaq and Wilt's great (but not otherworldly) verticals, with their overwhelming size and strength, you've got the two most dominant physical specimens of all time. It's not like Wilt need 39 plus inches of vertical to dunk on or block anyone in history, and the same is true for Shaq.

[scandisk_]

What's with the ILT? I need some catching up to do :oldlol:

Ilt sounds legit

[aj1987]

Bill Russell's teams won 11 rings...

but, take a look at this...

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1I9jddU8eNWrI8MMOPs_0l58WnjFNADvF4iIcu0Sfz7A/edit?pli=1#gid=0

And this...

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=332617


BTW, a prime Kareem only went to two Finals, and only won one ring.
How many rings did Wilt's teams win?

BTW, a prime Wilt only won one ring.


What's with the ILT? I need some catching up to do :oldlol:

Ilt sounds legit
Wilt - W = Ilt.

[LAZERUSS]

How many rings did Wilt's teams win?

BTW, a prime Wilt only won one ring.


Wilt - W = Ilt.

Proves that it is a TEAM game.

When Wilt had a roster the EQUAL of Russell's, and that was healthy...they annihilated the "Dynasty", and as always, Chamberlain crushed Russell and his "11 rings" in the process.

As non other than John Wooden claimed...had Russell and Wilt swapped rosters, and it would have been Wilt holding all those rings.

Wilt=GOAT.

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[aj1987]

Wilt=GOAT choker.

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:
FTFY.

[Poochymama]

Ilt and Russell had equal rosters in 66 and 68, and Ilt still lost both times. Ilt had much better rosters in 67 and 69, and Ilt still lost one of those too. Ilt had the best roster in the league(or tied for it) in 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73 and still only won 2/8. Just stop with the excuses, we've read them all 100 times.

John Wooden was obviously a moron, so I don't know why you keep quoting him. Swap rosters and adjust their ages, Ilt probably wins 57, 58, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63, 64, 65. WRussell probably wins 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73

inb4 more excuses and meaningless stats

[LAZERUSS]

Ilt and Russell had equal rosters in 66 and 68, and Ilt still lost both times. Ilt had much better rosters in 67 and 69, and Ilt still lost one of those too. Ilt had the best roster in the league(or tied for it) in 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73 and still only won 2/8. Just stop with the excuses, we've read them all 100 times.

John Wooden was obviously a moron, so I don't know why you keep quoting him. Swap rosters and adjust their ages, Ilt probably wins 57, 58, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63, 64, 65. WRussell probably wins 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73

inb4 more excuses and meaningless stats

Do some actual RESEARCH before you post your usual nonsense.

Equal rosters in '66?

The Sixers had to win their last 11 games to win the division by one game. And virtually all of Wilt's teammates were healthy the entire season.
Meanwhile, the seven-time defending Celtics coasted all season, and Russell missed two games, Havlicek missed nine games, Sanders missed eight games, and Sam Jones missed 13.

BTW, the Sixers went 6-4 against Boston in the regular season, but Chamberlain missed one of those games, and of course, Philly was wiped out by Boston.

Furthermore, in those nine regular season H2H's, Wilt averaged 28.3 ppg, 30.7 rpg, and shot .473 from the field against the Celtics. In the EDF's against Boston, Chamberlain averaged 28.0 ppg, 30.2 rpg, and shot .509 against Boston. How did the Celtics beat Wilt's Sixers, 4-1 in the EDF's? Chamberlain's teammates collectively shot...get this... .352 from the field.


I will give you that Russell had an equal roster in '68. And the result? Wilt's Sixers ran away with the best record in the league. How about those "equal" rosters in the '68 EDF's?

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9328011&postcount=14

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9328006&postcount=13

It was simply amazing that an injured Chamberlain could take a roster that had been DECIMATED by injuries to a game seven, four point loss against a healthy Celtic team.


And yes, Wilt's '67 roster was the EQUAL of Russell's. Of course, with an EQUAL roster, Chamberlain led his team to a 68-13 record, while Russell's eight-time defending Celtics went 60-21. However, in the EDF's, Wilt, as usual, just slaughtered Russell in EVERY facet of the game...and the result was an overwhelming 4-1 series win (and had the Sixers not played poorly in a four point loss in game four in Boston, it would have been a sweep.)

Just how EQUAL were those rosters? Think about this...Philly outscored Boston in that series, per game, by +10.0 ppg. Chamberlain outscored Russell, per game in that series...by +10.4 ppg.


'69? Aside from West and Wilt, Boston had better players 3-8. Not only that, but the Lakers third best player, Baylor, was simply awful in that series. In three of the losses (and by margins of 1, 6, and 2 points), Baylor shot 2-14, 4-18, and 8-22 from the field. Oh, and Wilt was the bench in the last five minutes of a game seven, two point loss...in a game in which he wiped the floor with Russell. BTW, subtract Wilt's and Russell's FG shooting in that game seven, and Russell's teammates outshot Wilt's by a .477 to .360 margin...again...in a two point win.


'70? So, you honestly believe that Russell would hav come back from a devastating knee injury, and way ahead of schedule, and hang a 23-24 .625 FG% Finals...all while taking his 46-36 roster to a game seven against a heavily-favored 60-22 Knicks team?

'71? :roll: :roll: :roll:
Yep, Russell would outplay a PEAK Kareem...and take his 48-34 Lakers, without BOTH West and Baylor, to a series win over Kareem's 66-16 Bucks?

'72? Chamberlain did everything a peak Russell would have, except much better...and led his team to an overwhelming title. But you think that Russell would put up a 19-23 .600 Finals, and overcome West's .325 shooting from the field? :roll: :roll: :roll:

'73? Russell retired at age 34. Chamberlain came in 4th in the MVP balloting at age 36, and then was LA's best player in the post-season. But you think a 36 year old Russell would again be able to overcome another West "choke job", and beat a Knicks team with SIX HOFers?


As for the rest...I agree 100%. Chamberlain wins rings every year from '57 thru '65 with Russell's rosters, and likely has 70+ win seasons.

[Poochymama]

Do some actual RESEARCH before you post your usual nonsense.

Equal rosters in '66?

The Sixers had to win their last 11 games to win the division by one game. And virtually all of Wilt's teammates were healthy the entire season.
Meanwhile, the seven-time defending Celtics coasted all season, and Russell missed two games, Havlicek missed nine games, Sanders missed eight games, and Sam Jones missed 13.

BTW, the Sixers went 6-4 against Boston in the regular season, but Chamberlain missed one of those games, and of course, Philly was wiped out by Boston.

Furthermore, in those nine regular season H2H's, Wilt averaged 28.3 ppg, 30.7 rpg, and shot .473 from the field against the Celtics. In the EDF's against Boston, Chamberlain averaged 28.0 ppg, 30.2 rpg, and shot .509 against Boston. How did the Celtics beat Wilt's Sixers, 4-1 in the EDF's? Chamberlain's teammates collectively shot...get this... .352 from the field.


I will give you that Russell had an equal roster in '68. And the result? Wilt's Sixers ran away with the best record in the league. How about those "equal" rosters in the '68 EDF's?

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9328011&postcount=14

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9328006&postcount=13

It was simply amazing that an injured Chamberlain could take a roster that had been DECIMATED by injuries to a game seven, four point loss against a healthy Celtic team.


And yes, Wilt's '67 roster was the EQUAL of Russell's. Of course, with an EQUAL roster, Chamberlain led his team to a 68-13 record, while Russell's eight-time defending Celtics went 60-21. However, in the EDF's, Wilt, as usual, just slaughtered Russell in EVERY facet of the game...and the result was an overwhelming 4-1 series win (and had the Sixers not played poorly in a four point loss in game four in Boston, it would have been a sweep.)

Just how EQUAL were those rosters? Think about this...Philly outscored Boston in that series, per game, by +10.0 ppg. Chamberlain outscored Russell, per game in that series...by +10.4 ppg.


'69? Aside from West and Wilt, Boston had better players 3-8. Not only that, but the Lakers third best player, Baylor, was simply awful in that series. In three of the losses (and by margins of 1, 6, and 2 points), Baylor shot 2-14, 4-18, and 8-22 from the field. Oh, and Wilt was the bench in the last five minutes of a game seven, two point loss...in a game in which he wiped the floor with Russell. BTW, subtract Wilt's and Russell's FG shooting in that game seven, and Russell's teammates outshot Wilt's by a .477 to .360 margin...again...in a two point win.


'70? So, you honestly believe that Russell would hav come back from a devastating knee injury, and way ahead of schedule, and hang a 23-24 .625 FG% Finals...all while taking his 46-36 roster to a game seven against a heavily-favored 60-22 Knicks team?

'71? :roll: :roll: :roll:
Yep, Russell would outplay a PEAK Kareem...and take his 48-34 Lakers, without BOTH West and Baylor, to a series win over Kareem's 66-16 Bucks?

'72? Chamberlain did everything a peak Russell would have, except much better...and led his team to an overwhelming title. But you think that Russell would put up a 19-23 .600 Finals, and overcome West's .325 shooting from the field? :roll: :roll: :roll:

'73? Russell retired at age 34. Chamberlain came in 4th in the MVP balloting at age 36, and then was LA's best player in the post-season. But you think a 36 year old Russell would again be able to overcome another West "choke job", and beat a Knicks team with SIX HOFers?


As for the rest...I agree 100%. Chamberlain wins rings every year from '57 thru '65 with Russell's rosters, and likely has 70+ win seasons.

:roll: pretty much what I expected from you.

Thanks

[Marchesk]

Ilt had the best roster in the league(or tied for it) in 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73 and still only won 2/8. Just stop with the excuses, we've read them all 100 times.

The Bucks and Knicks had really good rosters during some of those years also. Consider that the Knicks beat a 68 win Celtics team in 73.

[aj1987]

Chamberlain wins rings every year from '57 thru '65 with Russell's rosters, and likely has 70+ win seasons.
http://i.imgur.com/O6DL7V4.gif
http://i.imgur.com/O6DL7V4.gif
http://i.imgur.com/O6DL7V4.gif
http://i.imgur.com/O6DL7V4.gif
http://i.imgur.com/O6DL7V4.gif
http://i.imgur.com/O6DL7V4.gif
http://i.imgur.com/O6DL7V4.gif
http://i.imgur.com/O6DL7V4.gif
http://i.imgur.com/O6DL7V4.gif
http://i.imgur.com/O6DL7V4.gif









The mental midget played with a ton of HOF'ers. Two top ~15-20 GOAT's on the same team. Chokerlain lost to the Knicks in '70 with West averaging 31/8 and Baylor averaging 18/11. West averaged 38/5/8 in '69 as well.

Must be annoying AF, playing for a choking steroid junkie.

For a person, who, you idiots think is the "GOAT" scorer/rebounder/defender, he was one of he worst "winners" in the history of the game.

[AirFederer]

:eek: :wtf: :eek:

How is it possible to have an opinion like Barry if Ilt was the GOAT, as his stans say. Something strange here...


"I'll say what most players feel, which is that Wilt is a loser...He is terrible in big games. He knows he is going to lose and be blamed for the loss, so he dreads it, and you can see it in his eyes; and anyone who has ever played with him will agree with me, regardless of whether they would admit it publicly. When it comes down to the closing minutes of a tough game, an important game, he doesn't want the ball, he doesn't want any part of the pressure. It is at these times that greatness is determined and Wilt doesn't have it. There is no way you can compare him to a pro like a Bill Russell or a Jerry West...these are clutch competitors."

- Rick Barry

Naaah, Rick was just another hater with no knowledge.

[LAZERUSS]

:eek: :wtf: :eek:

How is it possible to have an opinion like Barry if Ilt was the GOAT, as his stans say. Something strange here...



Naaah, Rick was just another hater with no knowledge.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Here are TWO interviews with Barry...one in the 70's, and the last just a couple of years ago...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSTt_TxoFVo

Barry DOES say that WILT is the GOAT!

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[AirFederer]

But but why did he also say the opposite?


:roll: :roll: :roll:

Here are TWO interviews with Barry...one in the 70's, and the last just a couple of years ago...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSTt_TxoFVo

Barry DOES say that WILT is the GOAT!

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[LAZERUSS]

But but why did he also say the opposite?

Obviously in a fit of anger after Chamberlain led his Sixers to an overwhelming title over his Warriors. And he would do it again when Barry returned from the ABA in '72-73. In the WCF's, Wilt led his Lakers to a 4-1 series blowout over Barry's Warriors (who had just knocked off Kareem's 60-22 Bucks in the first round BTW), which included a 126-70 win in game three in Oakland.

Incidently, Barry had the highest scoring "non-Wilt" full-time season IN the Chamberlain era...and even he admitted that he (Barry) won it, only because Wilt didn't want it.

https://books.google.com/books?id=W8ZAnT8gd-8C&pg=PT179&lpg=PT179&dq=wilt+would+have+won+the+s#v=onepage&q=wilt%20would%20have%20won%20the%20s&f=false


Of the scoring title, Barry said, "If [Wilt] wanted it, he could have had it."

[LAZERUSS]

But but why did he also say the opposite?

BTW, Russell, Oscar, West, and Kareem have all claimed WILT as the GOAT.

[jongib369]

Given the context of rarity of maximum verticality in a game situation the evidence does support it and by landslide. For Wilt at least, I haven't payed as much attention yet to Russell so I won't comment on him.

Rarely does any player ever jump their absolute maximum near the rim during a basketball game under any condition in the course of their career let alone in only a roughly 28 game sample size. If your expectations are to see a 39 inch vertical on display from "98% of career is missing" 1960's centers particularly two that didn't like to "hotdog" (in the mold of say, a Dawkins or Shaq or a Deandre Jordan) therefore would never jump as high as they could on the offensive end to begin with, than your expectations are ridiculous.

Let's ignore known verticals of any player for a second. How many plays in any players careers have lead fans to re-watch over and over and lead them to declare them as freak status head at the rim leapers? I mean head at/above the rim type plays. The number of game sample size it requires to FINALLY see a player like Lebron, or Shaq, or MJ to actually get their head at or near the rim and jump as high as possible is A LOT. Their entire careers exist on film yet there are only a HANDFUL of examples of them jumping with maximum vertical effort in close proximity to something we can gauge their height with.

I've watched 5 complete games of young "freak athlete / 36" Vertical" Shaq recently and in not a single one of them does he jump even close to as high as 36 year old Wilt jumps in the 1973 NBA all-star game. And one of those games I'm talking about is a 1993 Chicago Bulls game in the SAME auditorium using the same camera positioning, and he even blocks a shot in the same exact spot. His hand isn't near as high as Wilt's got in relation to the backboard. Why is that do you think? Is his 36 inch vertical bullshit?

No. Players just rarely give maximum vertical effort in a way that fans can see while a game is happening. To expect to see it from 1960's film is ridiculous. What I can tell you is that in a 28 game sample size covering Shaq's career, I'd bet my left testicle you you'd see a lower average height of blocked shots and verticality than from Wilt. And Shaq had a measured 36 inch vertical in the draft. Wilt's being ~39 or w/e, is not implausible, film based on his average verticality in relation to other great leaping players such as Shaq does support it.

could you post that?