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View Full Version : Who will rank higher all time between Dwyane Wade and Lebron James



kennethgriffin
08-31-2015, 12:26 PM
... if the Heat win a title this year with Wade as FMVP..... ( EDIT* AND wade somehow claims regular season MVP )


3.5 nba titles
2 fmvps
1 season mvp

losing 2 times in the nba finals


vs

1.5 nba titles
1.5 fmvps
4 mvps

losing 4 times in the nba finals



http://www.basket4us.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/lebronjames1.jpg

ralph_i_el
08-31-2015, 12:27 PM
Kobe:
2.5 finals
.5 FMVP's

comes in after both of them

kennethgriffin
08-31-2015, 12:28 PM
Kobe:
2.5 finals
.5 FMVP's

comes in after both of them


lol wtf.. when did kobe win in a lockout year?


if we're giving asterisks for help then wade/bran have 0 rings combined lmao


lets be realistic please

kuniva_dAMiGhTy
08-31-2015, 12:28 PM
Titles aren't everything otherwise John Havlicek would be a Top 10 player all time.

LeBron is already, arguably, a Top 10 player. Wade is somewhere in the 20-25 range (typically). Wade isn't jumping 15 something spots because of a title, in a series dude likely plays as a shell of his former self.

G0ATbe
08-31-2015, 12:28 PM
Wade is higher currently, so that would further the gap.

kennethgriffin
08-31-2015, 12:32 PM
Titles aren't everything otherwise John Havlicek would be a Top 10 player all time.

LeBron is already, arguably, a Top 10 player. Wade is somewhere in the 20-25 range (typically). Wade isn't jumping 15 something spots because of a title, in a series dude likely plays as a shell of his former self.


you act like wades career average isnt 24/5/6


:lol


how is a guy with a great average and 2 fmvps with 3.5 titles not right around where jerry west is at the very least


the logo is top 12-13

:confusedshrug:


both guys have 0 regular season mvps

ralph_i_el
08-31-2015, 12:34 PM
lol wtf.. when did kobe win in a lockout year?


if we're giving asterisks for help then wade/bran have 0 rings combined lmao


lets be realistic please

half a ring for his sidekick seasons, and half for the year the league fixed the Sacramento seasons.

Or should Kobe get full credit for averaging 15ppg in the finals :facepalm ?

I'm not even giving asterisks for help.....I'm giving asterisks for BEING the help.

kennethgriffin
08-31-2015, 12:35 PM
in the end i guess its about # of rings by mvps


wade never won mvp.. thats holding him back big time



new question: "if wade wins a fmvp and regular season mvp. then what?"




wade:

3.5 titles
2 fmvps
1 season mvp
only 2 finals losses


thats above lebron IMO

kennethgriffin
08-31-2015, 12:39 PM
half a ring for his sidekick seasons, and half for the year the league fixed the Sacramento seasons.

Or should Kobe get full credit for averaging 15ppg in the finals :facepalm ?

I'm not even giving asterisks for help.....I'm giving asterisks for BEING the help.


na.. kobe was co-lead with shaq

at best you can give kobe 0.8 for his 1st title.

would be 0.5 but there is no nba finals without kobes game 7 wcf saving shaqs legacy with 24/11/7/4 ( leading the lakers in points, rebounds, assists and blocks )


then saving the finals game 4 in OT. plus having a huge clincher and lockout up reggie miller with 1 for 16 in game 1



kobe goes from 0.5 to 0.8 for that title


full credit for 2001 and 2002 due to averaging the highest playoff and finals PPG of all time for a 2nd leading scorer


Playoffs:

2001 Kobe Bryant 29.4
2002 Kobe Bryant 26.6
1986 Kevin Mchale 24.9
1958 Bob Pettit 24.2
1963 Sam Jones 23.8
1966 John Havlicek 23.6
1972 Jerry West 22.9
2012 Dwyane Wade 22.8
1987 Magic Johnson 21.8
1967 Wilt Chamberlain 21.7
1991 Scottie Pippen 21.6
1985 James Worthy 21.5
1978 Bob Dandridge 21.2
2000 Kobe Bryant 21.1
1957 Bill Sharman 21.1
1976 Dave Cowens 21.0
1979 Dennis Johnson 20.9
2005 Manu Ginobili 20.8
2007 Tony Parker 20.8
1962 Tom Heinsohn 20.7
1968 Sam Jones 20.5
1995 Clyde Drexler 20.5
1974 Dave Cowens 20.5
1982 Kareem Abdul Jabbar 20.4
1980 Jamaal Wilkes 20.3
1956 Neil Johnston 20.3
1993 Scottie Pippen 20.1
1959 Bill Sharman 20.1
2006 Shaquille O'neal 20.0
1988 Magic Johnson 19.9
2010 Pau Gasol 19.6
1992 Scottie Pippen 19.5
1997 Scottie Pippen 19.2
1971 Bob Dandridge 19.2
1961 Bill Russell 19.1
2008 Kevin Garnett 18.8
1983 Andrew Tony 18.8
2015 Klay Thompson 18.6
1965 John Havlicek 18.5
1960 Bill Russell 18.5
2009 Pau Gasol 18.3
1977 Bill Walton 18.2
1990 Joe Dumars 18.2
1989 Joe Dumars 17.6
2011 Jason Terry 17.5
1964 Tom Heinsohn 17.4
1970 Dick Barnett 16.9
1996 Scottie Pippen 16.9
1998 Scottie Pippen 16.8
1969 Sam Jones 16.8
1984 Dennis Johnson 16.6
2004 Chauncey Billups 16.4
2014 Tim Duncan 16.3
1981 Cedric Maxwell 16.1
1973 Earl Monroe 16.1
1952 Jim Pollard 16.1
2013 Dwyane Wade 15.9
1951 Bob Davies 15.9
1999 David Robinson 15.6
1975 Jamaal Wilkes 15.0
2003 Tony Parker 14.7
1953 Jim Pollard 14.3
1994 Vernon Maxwell 13.8
1955 Red Kerr 13.8
1950 Vern Mikkelsen 13.0
1954 Jim Pollard 12.3




Finals:

2002 Kobe Bryant 26.8
2001 Kobe bryant 24.6
1958 Bob Pettit 24.0 ( Cliff Hagan 25.3, playoffs and finals leader )
1986 Larry Bird 24.0 ( Mchale 25.8ppg )
1985 James Worthy 23.7
1971 Oscar Robertson 23.5
1963 Tom Heinsohn 23.3 ( Jones 24.6 )
1966 Sam Jones 22.9
1974 Dave Cowens 22.7
1979 Dennis Johnson 22.6 ( Gus Williams 29.0ppg finals, playoffs leader too..wtf? )
2012 Dwyane Wade 22.6
1959 Tie* Sharman/Ramsay 22.5 ( heinsohn 24.2 )
1962 Sam Jones 22.1 ( russell 22.8 )
1983 Andrew Tony 22.0 ( Julius Erving 3rd option in playoffs and finals )
1957 Bill Sharman 21.8 ( Heinsohn 24.0 )
1987 Kareem Abdul Jabbar 21.7
1980 Magic Johnson 21.5
1995 Clyde Drexler 21.5
1989 Isiah Thomas 21.3
1993 Scottie Pippen 21.2
1988 Magic Johnson 21.1
1968 Bailey Howell 21.0
2004 Chauncey Billups 21.0 (Rip playoff and finals leader. robbed )
1992 Scottie Pippen 20.8
1991 Scottie Pippen 20.8
1990 Joe Dumars 20.6
1976 Dave Cowens 20.5
1978 Bob Dandridge 20.4
2008 Ray Allen 20.3
1997 Scottie Pippen 20.0
1972 Jerry West 19.8
2013 Dwyane Wade 19.6
2005 Manu Ginobili 18.7
1969 Sam Jones 18.7
1970 Dick Barnett 18.6
2010 Pau Gasol 18.6
2009 Pau Gasol 18.6
1977 Bill Walton 18.5
1960 Frank Ramsay 18.4 ( Heinsohn 22.4 )
1964 John Havlicek 18.4
2007 Tim Duncan 18.3
1965 John Havlicek 18.2
2011 Jason Terry 18.0
1982 Kareem Abdul Jabbar 18.0
2014 Kawhi Leonard 17.8
1967 Wilt Chamberlain 17.7 ( Hal Greer 26.0ppg. would have been mvp )
1961 Bill Russell 17.6 ( heinsohn 22.0 )
1984 Dennis Johnson 17.6
1951 Bob Davies 17.0
1999 David Robinson 16.6
1973 Willis Reed 16.4
1952 Jim Pollard 16.4
2015 Andre Iguodala 16.3
1998 Scottie Pippen 15.7
1996 Scottie Pippen 15.7
2000 Kobe Bryant 15.6 ( *19.0 minus the 2 point injury game )
1981 Larry Bird 15.3
1953 Jim Pollard 14.4
2003 Tony Parker 14.0
2006 Antoine Walker 13.8 ( Shaq only averaged 13.7 )
1956 Neil Johnston 13.6 ( Arizin 27.6 )
1950 Jim Pollard 13.6 ( mikan 32.1 )
1994 Vernon Maxwell 13.4
1955 Kerr 12.2 ( schayes 19.0 )
1975 Jamaal Wilkes 11.5
1954 Pollard 10.8 ( Mikan 18.1 )

longhornfan1234
08-31-2015, 12:43 PM
One player is a top 10 player and other is top 25 player. Take your guess.

kennethgriffin
08-31-2015, 12:47 PM
One player is a top 11* player and other is top 20-23* player. Take your guess.


thats with the current resumes



but with a regular season mvp
and with another championship
and another finals mvp

2.5 rings, 1 fmvp, 0 smvps

to

3.5 rings, 2 fmvps, 1 smvp




thats a huge upgrade...


only fractions separate guys who are top 20 to guys who are top 11-12


its not much.. the difference can sometimes be just a few trophies



when you think about it... karl malone would be a top 12-13 player all time with 1 title and 1 fmvp


but hes top 20 or so without them

Hey Yo
08-31-2015, 12:55 PM
lol wtf.. when did kobe win in a lockout year?


if we're giving asterisks for help then wade/bran have 0 rings combined lmao


lets be realistic please
"if the Heat win a title this year with Wade as FMVP..... ( EDIT* AND wade somehow claims regular season MVP )"

you're telling someone else to be realistic????

FPJ
08-31-2015, 12:55 PM
I'm one of the biggest Wade fans. His prime was incredible, there are few players in history who could do the things he did. The way he took over games at 6'4 was incredible.

With all these being said, i'd be shocked if Lebron isn't a consensus TOP 3 at the end of his career. I personally have him 2'nd behind Jordan. He's one of a kind, he does it all.

kennethgriffin
08-31-2015, 12:57 PM
"if the Heat win a title this year with Wade as FMVP..... ( EDIT* AND wade somehow claims regular season MVP )"

you're telling someone else to be realistic????


you act like the heat arent the 2nd best overall team in the east right now


in a sh*t conference with everyone healthy and clicking... the heat can run off 60 wins

wade with anything over 25ppg will get strong consideration for mvp. especially with the fact that he never got the award before. if his competition is lebron, durant, curry. the media might give him it


never know.. the heat are stacked bro. where have you been?

kennethgriffin
08-31-2015, 01:01 PM
I'm one of the biggest Wade fans. His prime was incredible, there are few players in history who could do the things he did. The way he took over games at 6'4 was incredible.

With all these being said, i'd be shocked if Lebron isn't a consensus TOP 3 at the end of his career. I personally have him 2'nd behind Jordan. He's one of a kind, he does it all.



i hope you're wearing a diaper when that day comes




my prediction for lebrons ending resume =

1.5 rings ( all with just miami - the team he colluded with )

16 seasons with cleveland ( all disappointments )

6 finals losses ( 2 in miami, 4 in cleveland )



he'l forever be 11-12th all time


sorry


and the worst part is.. he'l end up tieing michael jordans 5 season mvps.. which will bring on the most hate youl ever see for a player

Hey Yo
08-31-2015, 01:06 PM
you act like the heat arent the 2nd best overall team in the east right now


in a sh*t conference with everyone healthy and clicking... the heat can run off 60 wins

wade with anything over 25ppg will get strong consideration for mvp. especially with the fact that he never got the award before. if his competition is lebron, durant, curry. the media might give him it


never know.. the heat are stacked bro. where have you been?
I've been right here.... watching you talk out of your ass.

You need to let it go, chico and face reality that LeBron's already distanced himself from Kobe.

You should be more worried about KD or Curry as the next ones to possibly surpass Kobe all time.

kennethgriffin
08-31-2015, 01:20 PM
I've been right here.... watching you talk out of your ass.

You need to let it go, chico and face reality that LeBron's already distanced himself from Kobe.

You should be more worried about KD or Curry as the next ones to possibly surpass Kobe all time.


lol this thread is about wade and bran.


and only a few forum trolls think lebron is better than kobe all time.

all major media outlets, players past and present, coaches, fans overall have kobe higher

even on ISH's official vote. a place with kobe haters coming out the a** voted kobe higher all time.

youre a delusional s.o.b

:oldlol:

24-Inch_Chrome
08-31-2015, 01:22 PM
LeBron by a mile. He should be a top-10 lock by the time his career is over, Wade won't crack top-20.

aj1987
08-31-2015, 01:35 PM
If Wade surpasses LeBron, that means he's higher than Kobe as well, considering the fact that LeBron >> Kobe.

J Shuttlesworth
08-31-2015, 01:46 PM
So Kenneth must believe that Horry > MJ and Kobe

HOoopCityJones
08-31-2015, 01:49 PM
If Wade surpasses LeBron, that means he's higher than Kobe as well, considering the fact that LeBron >> Kobe.

:oldlol:

kennethgriffin
08-31-2015, 02:02 PM
So Kenneth must believe that Horry > MJ and Kobe


big difference between guys who average around 25ppg or better who have won fmvps...


and a role player than averaged 7ppg career




honestly.. anyone still using the robert horry line should be perma banned

KnittingRyu
08-31-2015, 02:26 PM
... if the Heat win a title this year with Wade as FMVP..... ( EDIT* AND wade somehow claims regular season MVP )



Not going to happen. This is just an odd fantasy.

J Shuttlesworth
08-31-2015, 02:30 PM
big difference between guys who average around 25ppg or better who have won fmvps...


and a role player than averaged 7ppg career




honestly.. anyone still using the robert horry line should be perma banned


Honestly, you should be banned. Wade averaged 16 ppg in the 2013 playoff run.

ISHGoat
08-31-2015, 02:55 PM
Honestly, you should be banned. Wade averaged 16 ppg in the 2013 playoff run.

:lebronamazed:

SouBeachTalents
08-31-2015, 03:24 PM
Wade lost his last chance to jump up in the rankings in 2011

Rocketswin2013
08-31-2015, 03:33 PM
TBH, Wade. More rings, and he has a ring without LeBron. LeBron does not have a ring without him.

riseagainst
08-31-2015, 04:25 PM
Wade is higher currently, so that would further the gap.

:lol

kennethgriffin
08-31-2015, 04:30 PM
Wade lost his last chance to jump up in the rankings in 2011


I love your name and picture.. it goes so well with this post and your love fest for lebron



How does it feel to have to buy all new merchandise every 4 years to replace the stuff you burned

nzahir
08-31-2015, 04:35 PM
Honestly, you should be banned. Wade averaged 16 ppg in the 2013 playoff run.
:applause:

Wade is a probably a top 20 player of all time atm but lebron is already top 10 and can enter top 2-3 when his career ends

ShawkFactory
08-31-2015, 04:36 PM
With all that happening it could be a conversation. But this is also assuming Lebron won't win again, which is an unfair assumption.

Lebron would still be higher.

And no way in hell this happens anyway

HurricaneKid
08-31-2015, 04:40 PM
My 3rd grade teacher said "There are no stupid questions". She had clearly not met Kenneth.

SouBeachTalents
08-31-2015, 04:44 PM
I love your name and picture.. it goes so well with this post and your love fest for lebron



How does it feel to have to buy all new merchandise every 4 years to replace the stuff you burned

I don't know why you got so butthurt by that comment, it's a fact Wade jumps up in rankings with a second Finals MVP. Nothing he's done since then has truly increased his ranking

Bankaii
08-31-2015, 04:57 PM
TBH, Wade. More rings, and he has a ring without LeBron. LeBron does not have a ring without him.
That's such a stupid argument.
So if Pippen would have won FMVP in 2000 he would be higher than MJ?

WayOfWade
08-31-2015, 04:58 PM
Hypothetically if the Heat do win the title and Wade takes the FMVP, there should be serious consideration for this argument. At the Moment it's LeBron by a mile, even with Wade beating him 2.5 titles to 1.5, LeBron's got the MVP's as well as many other awards than what Wade has. If Wade takes LeBron down in the playoffs though (highly unlikely, although that's what I'm hoping for), and takes home the title, then the gap certainly closes.
This thread is better reserved though for during a Heat-Cavs ECF.

kennethgriffin
08-31-2015, 05:19 PM
That's such a stupid argument.
So if Pippen would have won FMVP in 2000 he would be higher than MJ?

i think a more accurate comparison would be if pippen had 12 championships, 6 finals mvps. and atleast 1-2 regular season mvps


since those are the ratios in which wade to lebron would be if wade won another title/fmvp and season mvp




pippen would definitely be ranked ahead of jordan .. regardless of having less season mvps

Mr. Jabbar
08-31-2015, 05:23 PM
dwyane wade, the other guy broke every choking record

Wade's Rings
08-31-2015, 05:24 PM
That's such a stupid argument.
So if Pippen would have won FMVP in 2000 he would be higher than MJ?

Sarcasm


Hypothetically if the Heat do win the title and Wade takes the FMVP, there should be serious consideration for this argument. At the Moment it's LeBron by a mile, even with Wade beating him 2.5 titles to 1.5, LeBron's got the MVP's as well as many other awards than what Wade has. If Wade takes LeBron down in the playoffs though (highly unlikely, although that's what I'm hoping for), and takes home the title, then the gap certainly closes.
This thread is better reserved though for during a Heat-Cavs ECF.

If the Heat do win the title and Wade wins Finals MVP with a great run then he probably is a Consensus Top 15 Player All-Time. Wade beating Lebron to a Title & Finals MVP would be sweet. Bron would still have the MVPs but they would be equal in Finals MVPs and Wade would have double Bron's Titles. Now looking at it, Bron would still be ranked higher but it's closer than people would think. However, this is assuming Bron doesn't win again. My question is how people would rank Wade vs guys usually in the 11-19 range like Dr. J, Moses Malone, KG, etc.

90sgoat
08-31-2015, 05:26 PM
If Lebron hadn't sabotaged the Heat in 2011, then Wade would have been consensus best of the two. Regular season MVPs mean nothing.

Bankaii
08-31-2015, 07:25 PM
If Lebron hadn't sabotaged the Heat in 2011, then Wade would have been consensus best of the two. Regular season MVPs mean nothing.
You're such an idiot.
2011 Finals Bronny+Bosh: 36.3/14.5/7.8 on 45% per game.
2013 Final Wade+Bosh: 31.5/12.9/6.7 on 47% per game.
So Wade had more help from his 2nd&3rd options in '11 against a worse team yet he couldn't win while Lebron could with less help against a better team in '13.

Don't get me wrong, Lebron CHOKED on donkey dick in 2011, but Wade couldn't won that series, don't act like he was flawless.

Bankaii
08-31-2015, 07:26 PM
i think a more accurate comparison would be if pippen had 12 championships, 6 finals mvps. and atleast 1-2 regular season mvps


since those are the ratios in which wade to lebron would be if wade won another title/fmvp and season mvp




pippen would definitely be ranked ahead of jordan .. regardless of having less season mvps
You need help.

stalkerforlife
08-31-2015, 07:32 PM
Wade is higher as of right now.

A legit title in Cleveland may help Bran leapfrog Wade.

SouBeachTalents
08-31-2015, 07:42 PM
Regardless of who you choose, they're both securely ranked below Bosh

mehyaM24
08-31-2015, 07:50 PM
is this a joke?

so one good season in 2009 and a fluke championship in 2006 (horribly officiated) is all that matters here?

wade was lebron's sidekick for 90% of the duo's tenure. lebron also won 2 mvps in miami along with 2 finals mvp, b2b, in both their championships. to go with those championships, lebron did GOAT heavylifting - carrying a team like we haven't seen since shaq in 2000 and hakeem in 1994.


and those are just the miami years. in cleveland he won 2 mvps and took a cast of trash to the finals.


lebron outplays wade h2h, is a much better all-around player, statistically, and by all objective measures e.g. advanced data.


there is a reason the open court crew didn't even want to put wade in their "next 10" (after the top 50, the top 10 of this generation). he is never healthy, lazy, and his game hasn't adjusted since he lost his athleticism.

kennethgriffin
08-31-2015, 07:52 PM
is this a joke?

so one good season in 2009 and a fluke championship in 2006 (horribly officiated) is all that matters here?

wade was lebron's sidekick for 90% of the duo's tenure. lebron also won 2 mvps in miami along with 2 finals mvp, b2b, in both their championships. to go with those championships, lebron did GOAT heavylifting - carrying a team like we haven't seen since shaq in 2000 and hakeem in 1994.


and those are just the miami years. in cleveland he won 2 mvps and took a cast of trash to the finals.


lebron outplays wade h2h, is a much better all-around player, statistically, and by all objective measures e.g. advanced data.


there is a reason the open court crew didn't even want to put wade in their "next 10" (after the top 50, the top 10 of this generation). he is never healthy, lazy, and his game hasn't adjusted since he lost his athleticism.


meltdown

Naero
08-31-2015, 07:52 PM
Shouldn't the OP feel threatened that Wade would eclipse Kobe on an all-time scale as well, by virtue of the fact that LeBron (arguably) has an out-contributing resume to Kobe's at this stage? :rolleyes:

SouBeachTalents
08-31-2015, 07:57 PM
is this a joke?

so one good season in 2009 and a fluke championship in 2006 (horribly officiated) is all that matters here?

wade was lebron's sidekick for 90% of the duo's tenure. lebron also won 2 mvps in miami along with 2 finals mvp, b2b, in both their championships. to go with those championships, lebron did GOAT heavylifting - carrying a team like we haven't seen since shaq in 2000 and hakeem in 1994.

and those are just the miami years. in cleveland he won 2 mvps and took a cast of trash to the finals.


lebron outplays wade h2h, is a much better all-around player, statistically, and by all objective measures e.g. advanced data.


there is a reason the open court crew didn't even want to put wade in their "next 10" (after the top 50, the top 10 of this generation). he is never healthy, lazy, and his game hasn't adjusted since he lost his athleticism.

Lol, Wade's had more than "one" good season, he's had an amazing season ('09), 4 really good seasons ('05, '06, '10 & '11), and 2-3 additional good/pretty good seasons. And Wade has won a championship without LeBron, LeBron has not done the same without Wade.

Wade's Rings
08-31-2015, 07:57 PM
You're such an idiot.
2011 Finals Bronny+Bosh: 36.3/14.5/7.8 on 45% per game.
2013 Final Wade+Bosh: 31.5/12.9/6.7 on 47% per game.
So Wade had more help from his 2nd&3rd options in '11 against a worse team yet he couldn't win while Lebron could with less help against a better team in '13.

Don't get me wrong, Lebron CHOKED on donkey dick in 2011, but Wade couldn't won that series, don't act like he was flawless.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Wade showed up in Game 4, 5, and 7. Wade had good defense in that series.

Bron was non existant come the 4th quarter and had no impact on the games whatsoever but to say Wade had more help :roll:

Wade's Rings
08-31-2015, 07:59 PM
is this a joke?

so one good season in 2009 and a fluke championship in 2006 (horribly officiated) is all that matters here?

wade was lebron's sidekick for 90% of the duo's tenure. lebron also won 2 mvps in miami along with 2 finals mvp, b2b, in both their championships. to go with those championships, lebron did GOAT heavylifting - carrying a team like we haven't seen since shaq in 2000 and hakeem in 1994.


and those are just the miami years. in cleveland he won 2 mvps and took a cast of trash to the finals.


lebron outplays wade h2h, is a much better all-around player, statistically, and by all objective measures e.g. advanced data.


there is a reason the open court crew didn't even want to put wade in their "next 10" (after the top 50, the top 10 of this generation). he is never healthy, lazy, and his game hasn't adjusted since he lost his athleticism.

meltdown

mehyaM24
08-31-2015, 07:59 PM
meltdown

its just the truth. i hope you weren't being serious.


wade is like multiple tiers below lebron as a player, and about half a dozen below him if we're measuring career accomplishments.

by all objective measures, even with another title, lebron destroys him as a player and in career ranking.


raw individual stats?

lebron has averaged 28/7/7 for nearly a decade - never being injured or consistently sitting out games because of 'rest'.


the love wade gets on this forum is disgusting.

kennethgriffin
08-31-2015, 07:59 PM
Shouldn't the OP feel threatened that Wade would eclipse Kobe on an all-time scale as well, by virtue of the fact that LeBron (arguably) has an out-contributing resume to Kobe's at this stage? :rolleyes:


its about # of titles by mvp winners

with tie breakers being 1st team all nbas, 1st team all defenses


so even if wade got to 3.5 titles, 2 finals mvps, 1 season mvp

he'd have to win AGAIN and get to 4.5, 3 finals mvps, 1 season mvp


that would pull him pretty much right under kobe. since hes still lacking with his 2012 lockout title and 9 less 1st team all nbas, 9 less defensive 1st teams ( but has 1 more finals mvp if he can win 2 more in miami.. would be difficult )

so ited be close. but kobes overall resume would take the cake


IF however wade could get to 5.5 titles with 3 more before hes retired. even if its 2 fmvps out of 3. with a season mvp. i'd give wade serious consideration for passing kobe. would depend on what people value more. 18 more overall first team selections or 0.5 more titles/1 more fmvp



would be tough


but i'm not worried. just my OP hypothetical is a long shot. only people who should even be slightly worried are lebron fans

aj1987
08-31-2015, 08:01 PM
is this a joke?

so one good season in 2009 and a fluke championship in 2006 (horribly officiated) is all that matters here?

wade was lebron's sidekick for 90% of the duo's tenure. lebron also won 2 mvps in miami along with 2 finals mvp, b2b, in both their championships. to go with those championships, lebron did GOAT heavylifting - carrying a team like we haven't seen since shaq in 2000 and hakeem in 1994.


and those are just the miami years. in cleveland he won 2 mvps and took a cast of trash to the finals.


lebron outplays wade h2h, is a much better all-around player, statistically, and by all objective measures e.g. advanced data.


there is a reason the open court crew didn't even want to put wade in their "next 10" (after the top 50, the top 10 of this generation). he is never healthy, lazy, and his game hasn't adjusted since he lost his athleticism.
You do know that Wade averaged 23/4/5 in the '12 PO's, right? Dumbass. Wade without LeBron is still a champ. LeBron without Wade? :oldlol:

Young X
08-31-2015, 08:01 PM
mehyaM24 is worse than 3ball

Wade's Rings
08-31-2015, 08:02 PM
its just the truth. i hope you weren't being serious.


wade is like multiple tiers below lebron as a player, and about half a dozen below him if we're measuring career accomplishments.

by all objective measures, even with another title, lebron destroys him as a player and in career ranking.


raw individual stats?

lebron has averaged 28/7/7 for nearly a decade - never being injured or consistently sitting out games because of 'rest'.


the love wade gets on this forum is disgusting.

the meltdown continues

kennethgriffin
08-31-2015, 08:03 PM
its just the truth. i hope you weren't being serious.


wade is like multiple tiers below lebron as a player, and about half a dozen below him if we're measuring career accomplishments.

by all objective measures, even with another title, lebron destroys him as a player and in career ranking.


raw individual stats?

lebron has averaged 28/7/7 for nearly a decade - never being injured or consistently sitting out games because of 'rest'.


the love wade gets on this forum is disgusting.



wilt was a stat machine. he won 4 mvps. he was a decade long regular season beast


but hes 2 for 5... so all time he gets shat on by other legends


so imagine where lebron is being 2 for 6 with half the overall stats wilt was averaging for a decade



i'l give lebron credit for being the poor mans wilt chamberlain of our era. he was excellent in games that dont matter

:applause:

mehyaM24
08-31-2015, 08:03 PM
Lol, Wade's had more than "one" good season, he's had an amazing season ('09), 4 really good seasons ('05, '06, '10 & '11), and 2-3 additional good/pretty good seasons. And Wade has won a championship without LeBron, LeBron has not done the same without Wade.

you're not one of those idiots who thinks having a better TEAM means anything in an individual comparison.....right?

Wade's Rings
08-31-2015, 08:03 PM
mehyaM24 is worse than 3ball

Definitely

PJR
08-31-2015, 08:03 PM
mehyaM24 is worse than 3ball

Yeah, he's a major retard.

mehyaM24
08-31-2015, 08:05 PM
You do know that Wade averaged 23/4/5 in the '12 PO's, right? Dumbass. Wade without LeBron is still a champ. LeBron without Wade? :oldlol:

what about in 2013? *crickets*


lol @ this guy always nipping at my heels. quit following me around, sanjay.

SouBeachTalents
08-31-2015, 08:06 PM
you're not one of those idiots who thinks having a better TEAM means anything in an individual comparison.....right?

Were the '06 Heat really that great of a team? They're arguably the second worst champs of the 2000's, behind only the '03 Spurs

Wade's Rings
08-31-2015, 08:07 PM
lol @ this guy always nipping at my heels. quit following me around, sanjay.

Like you do with SamuraiSwish constantly bringing up the AAU "exposed" thread :oldlol:

mehyaM24
08-31-2015, 08:11 PM
Were the '06 Heat really that great of a team? They're arguably the second worst champs of the 2000's, behind only the '03 Spurs

they were a lot better than anything cleveland could muster pre 2014. you're not actually denying this are you?


"2/6" is all i see from these idiots, but what they fail to grasp is those are team achievements.

lebron doesn't have the luxury of going 6/24 in a finals game and still coming out with a W.


he can't close a series shooting ~30% (jordan in 1996) and ignore everything else that goes into basketball.


rings practically mean nothing. only idiots use them in an individual comparison.

Wade's Rings
08-31-2015, 08:14 PM
they were a lot better than anything cleveland could muster pre 2014. you're not actually denying this are you?


"2/6" is all i see from these idiots, but what they fail to grasp is those are team achievements.

lebron doesn't have the luxury of going 6/24 in a finals game and still coming out with a W.


he can't close a series shooting ~30% (jordan in 1996) and ignore everything else that goes into basketball.


rings practically mean nothing. only idiots use them in an individual comparison.

This has nothing to do with the 2006 Heat or even Wade :confusedshrug:

mehyaM24
08-31-2015, 08:15 PM
This has nothing to do with the 2006 Heat or even Wade :confusedshrug:

its relevant to the arguments here

idiot

Young X
08-31-2015, 08:15 PM
they were a lot better than anything cleveland could muster pre 2014. you're not actually denying this are you?


"2/6" is all i see from these idiots, but what they fail to grasp is those are team achievements.

lebron doesn't have the luxury of going 6/24 in a finals game and still coming out with a W.


he can't close a series shooting ~30% (jordan in 1996) and ignore everything else that goes into basketball.


rings practically mean nothing. only idiots use them in an individual comparison.He went 11-35 in a finals game and still won. :confusedshrug:

ShawkFactory
08-31-2015, 08:16 PM
its about # of titles by mvp winners

with tie breakers being 1st team all nbas, 1st team all defenses


so even if wade got to 3.5 titles, 2 finals mvps, 1 season mvp

he'd have to win AGAIN and get to 4.5, 3 finals mvps, 1 season mvp


that would pull him pretty much right under kobe. since hes still lacking with his 2012 lockout title and 9 less 1st team all nbas, 9 less defensive 1st teams ( but has 1 more finals mvp if he can win 2 more in miami.. would be difficult )

so ited be close. but kobes overall resume would take the cake


IF however wade could get to 5.5 titles with 3 more before hes retired. even if its 2 fmvps out of 3. with a season mvp. i'd give wade serious consideration for passing kobe. would depend on what people value more. 18 more overall first team selections or 0.5 more titles/1 more fmvp



would be tough


but i'm not worried. just my OP hypothetical is a long shot. only people who should even be slightly worried are lebron fans
According to you :oldlol:

Wade's Rings
08-31-2015, 08:17 PM
its relevant to the arguments here

idiot

He asked about the 2006 Heat :confusedshrug:

mehyaM24
08-31-2015, 08:19 PM
He went 11-35 in a finals game and still won. :confusedshrug:

post his all-around numbers.


its the same thing with you guys lmao. this isn't jordan who was a one-dimensional scorer during the second threepeat. lebron is one of the greatest all-around players ever.


start judging him by that standard, and maybe i will start taking you seriously. :oldlol:

JT123
08-31-2015, 08:20 PM
He went 11-35 in a finals game and still won. :confusedshrug:
31% is better than 25%

mehyaM24
08-31-2015, 08:22 PM
31% is better than 25%
look at the all-around numbers though.

its an apple & oranges comparison he used. wouldn't expect less from a poster who does nothing but try to get my attention. :oldlol:

Naero
08-31-2015, 08:23 PM
he can't close a series shooting ~30% (jordan in 1996) and ignore everything else that goes into basketball.


Yet, LeBron won against the Bulls with ~40% shooting or thereabout. :confusedshrug:

We have yet to see how LeBron will play at the same age in 33-years-old, so just the fact that you decided to cite that is indicative of how glaringly selective your stats are. The closest age to 33 we've seen LeBron play at (30 in this year) produced a playoff run of 41.7% field-goal percentage and 22.7% three-point percentage, so I can't wait to see how LeBron plays at the same age. :rolleyes:

mehyaM24
08-31-2015, 08:27 PM
Yet, he won against the bulls with ~40% shooting or thereabout. :confusedshrug:

We have yet to see how LeBron will play at the same age in 33-years-old, so just the fact that you decided to cite that is indicative of how glaringly selective your stats are. The closest age to 33 we've seen LeBron play at (30 in this year) produced a playoff run of 41.7% field-goal percentage and 22.7% three-point percentage, so I can't wait to see how LeBron plays at the same age. :rolleyes:

and pulled down 11 boards while dishing out 9 assists. people only see what they want though. i literally just finished posting the distinction, and it gets overlooked because lebron is judged by a higher standard.


i mean that's got to be it. putting up the all-around numbers he did during the finals just doesn't register with posters.

they rather cling to fg% and act like lebron is some one dimensional player.

low iq posters everywhere :oldlol:

Bankaii
08-31-2015, 08:27 PM
:roll: :roll: :roll:

Wade showed up in Game 4, 5, and 7. Wade had good defense in that series.

Bron was non existant come the 4th quarter and had no impact on the games whatsoever but to say Wade had more help :roll:
Again, Wade could've won the series. There were a couple games where Bron showed up, and Bosh.
In 2013 Lebron led the team in all statistical categories except for blocks.
Stop acting like it was impossible for Wade to have led the Heat to win in 2011.
The help was equal at worst, but Bosh clearly was best in 2011.

JT123
08-31-2015, 08:28 PM
Yet, LeBron won against the Bulls with ~40% shooting or thereabout. :confusedshrug:

We have yet to see how LeBron will play at the same age in 33-years-old, so just the fact that you decided to cite that is indicative of how glaringly selective your stats are. The closest age to 33 we've seen LeBron play at (30 in this year) produced a playoff run of 41.7% field-goal percentage and 22.7% three-point percentage, so I can't wait to see how LeBron plays at the same age. :rolleyes:
Dumb comparison. Let's just pretend Jordan's efficiency wouldn't drop at all if he played 46 mpg, lost Pippen and Kukoc to injuries, and played for a rookie coach instead of the GOAT coach :rolleyes:

kennethgriffin
08-31-2015, 08:28 PM
According to you :oldlol:


i dunno i think my formula is solid


#1 Michael Jordan - 6 titles ( mvp winner )
#2 Kareem Abdul Jabbar - 6 titles ( mvp winner )
#3 Bill Russell - 5.5 titles ( mvp winner ) * half prestige for 60's
#4 Kobe Bryant - 5 titles ( mvp winner )
#5 Magic Johnson - 5 titles ( mvp winner )
#6 Tim Duncan - 4.5 titles ( mvp winner ) * half prestige for lockout
#7 Shaquille O'neal - 4 titles ( mvp winner )
#8 Larry Bird - 3 titles ( mvp winner )
#9 Hakeem Olajuwon - 2 titles ( mvp winner )
#10 Wilt Chamberlain - 1.5 titles ( mvp winner ) * half prestige for 60's
#11 Lebron James - 1.5 titles ( mvp winner ) * half prestige for lockout



i'd say finals records above all else break ties. then accolades

which is why jordan > kareem, Kobe > magic

ShawkFactory
08-31-2015, 08:31 PM
i dunno i think my formula is solid


#1 Michael Jordan - 6 titles ( mvp winner )
#2 Kareem Abdul Jabbar - 6 titles ( mvp winner )
#3 Bill Russell - 5.5 titles ( mvp winner ) * half prestige for 60's
#4 Kobe Bryant - 5 titles ( mvp winner )
#5 Magic Johnson - 5 titles ( mvp winner )
#6 Tim Duncan - 4.5 titles ( mvp winner ) * half prestige for lockout
#7 Shaquille O'neal - 4 titles ( mvp winner )
#8 Larry Bird - 3 titles ( mvp winner )
#9 Hakeem Olajuwon - 2 titles ( mvp winner )
#10 Wilt Chamberlain - 1.5 titles ( mvp winner ) * half prestige for 60's
#11 Lebron James - 1.5 titles ( mvp winner ) * half prestige for lockout



i'd say finals records above all else break ties. then accolades

which is why jordan > kareem, Kobe > magic
Most people would not say Kobe > Magic.

And you just gave your own subjective list as proof that your formula works...

kennethgriffin
08-31-2015, 08:34 PM
Most people would not say Kobe > Magic.


but west, magic, shaq, jordan and many other legends have said kobe > magic


and if we actually compare the 2's careers. its kobe by a nose..

magic had 3-4 other HOFrs for every title

kobe matched his 5 titles with 2 of them being with a sh*t supporting cast compared to magics teams


magic was a historically sh*t defender aswell.. while kobe is 9 time all defensive 1st team elite alpha lock down specialist ( for atleast 7 of those 9 )

Wade's Rings
08-31-2015, 08:38 PM
Again, Wade could've won the series. There were a couple games where Bron showed up, and Bosh.

A couple Games? He "showed up" in Game 6 when Wade was hurt and in Game 1 he wasn't a factor in the 4th Quarter, Wade managed to win that game.


In 2013 Lebron led the team in all statistical categories except for blocks.

Congratulations. Wade still showed up in multiple Games and had good defense, Bron never did that.


Stop acting like it was impossible for Wade to have led the Heat to win in 2011.

It would've been possible if Bron didn't shit the bed in the 4th Quarter, something you avoided and only look at the numbers.


The help was equal at worst, but Bosh clearly was best in 2011.

Bron Stans post shit like this and nobody bats an eye but 3ball posts something and he's an idiot :oldlol:

ShawkFactory
08-31-2015, 08:42 PM
but west, magic, shaq, jordan and many other legends have said kobe > magic


and if we actually compare the 2's careers. its kobe by a nose..

magic had 3-4 other HOFrs for every title

kobe matched his 5 titles with 2 of them being with a sh*t supporting cast compared to magics teams


magic was a historically sh*t defender aswell.. while kobe is 9 time all defensive 1st team elite alpha lock down specialist ( for atleast 7 of those 9 )
So Kobe beating Orlando in 2009 is more impressive than Magic beating the Celtics in 85 because he had one less HOFer on his team (37 year-old Kareem and 23-year-old Worthy for Magic btw)? Gotcha

Hey Yo
08-31-2015, 08:42 PM
but west, magic, shaq, jordan and many other legends have said kobe > magic


and if we actually compare the 2's careers. its kobe by a nose..

magic had 3-4 other HOFrs for every title

kobe matched his 5 titles with 2 of them being with a sh*t supporting cast compared to magics teams


magic was a historically sh*t defender aswell.. while kobe is 9 time all defensive 1st team elite alpha lock down specialist ( for atleast 7 of those 9 )
So Kobe's only 2 first option titles, against a so called pathetic conference like the East...... is suppose to be impressive??

kennethgriffin
08-31-2015, 08:44 PM
#1 Michael Jordan - 6 titles ( mvp winner )
#2 Kareem Abdul Jabbar - 6 titles ( mvp winner )
#3 Bill Russell - 5.5 titles ( mvp winner ) * half prestige for 60's
#4 Kobe Bryant - 5 titles ( mvp winner )
#5 Magic Johnson - 5 titles ( mvp winner )
#6 Tim Duncan - 4.5 titles ( mvp winner ) * half prestige for lockout
#7 Shaquille O'neal - 4 titles ( mvp winner )
#8 Dwyane Wade - 3.5 titles ( mvp winner )
#9 Larry Bird - 3 titles ( mvp winner )
#10 Hakeem Olajuwon - 2 titles ( mvp winner )
#11 Wilt Chamberlain - 1.5 titles ( mvp winner ) * half prestige for 60's
#12 Lebron James - 1.5 titles ( mvp winner ) * half prestige for lockout



this would be the new ranking if wade claims a FMVP, SMVP, NBA title


the season mvp/FMVP combo resume + rings is what unlocks the top 10 all time resume possibilities


wade would catapult his legacy into the upper stratosphere if he can pull this off



with just titles and fmvps i think the best he can do is top 13-14

Wade's Rings
08-31-2015, 08:47 PM
#1 Michael Jordan - 6 titles ( mvp winner )
#2 Kareem Abdul Jabbar - 6 titles ( mvp winner )
#3 Bill Russell - 5.5 titles ( mvp winner ) * half prestige for 60's
#4 Kobe Bryant - 5 titles ( mvp winner )
#5 Magic Johnson - 5 titles ( mvp winner )
#6 Tim Duncan - 4.5 titles ( mvp winner ) * half prestige for lockout
#7 Shaquille O'neal - 4 titles ( mvp winner )
#8 Dwyane Wade - 3.5 titles ( mvp winner )
#9 Larry Bird - 3 titles ( mvp winner )
#10 Hakeem Olajuwon - 2 titles ( mvp winner )
#11 Wilt Chamberlain - 1.5 titles ( mvp winner ) * half prestige for 60's
#12 Lebron James - 1.5 titles ( mvp winner ) * half prestige for lockout



this would be the new ranking if wade claims a FMVP, SMVP, NBA title


the season mvp/FMVP combo resume + rings is what unlocks the top 10 all time resume possibilities


wade would catapult his legacy into the upper stratosphere if he can pull this off



with just titles and fmvps i think the best he can do is top 13-14

If Wade had 3 Finals MVPs without an MVP he would still get Top 10 All-Time consideration.

You're list though :oldlol:

kennethgriffin
08-31-2015, 08:53 PM
If Wade had 3 Finals MVPs without an MVP he would still get Top 10 All-Time consideration.

You're list though :oldlol:

no he wouldnt.. or else hondo would be in there


the mvp/fmvp/multiple titles triple threat is a prerequisite for all time top 10 consideration

only russell gets a pass for FMVP's cause the award wasnt around and it was named after him. plus he would have won 5-6+ of them


and regardless.. who said 3 fmvps? if wade wins next year he'l have 2 fmvps

Naero
08-31-2015, 08:54 PM
Dumb comparison. Let's just pretend Jordan's efficiency wouldn't drop at all if he played 46 mpg, lost Pippen and Kukoc to injuries, and played for a rookie coach instead of the GOAT coach :rolleyes:

Apart from playing 46 MPG per game, which LeBron didn't do until Kyrie went down in the finals, none of the causal variables you cited should have any substantial impact on a superstar's FG%.

Never mind the fact that Blatt has a wealth of success under his belt overseas or that Jordan played for a rookie coach in Doug Collins; coaches aren't the mainstay for how well a superstar plays. The most salient impact coaches have on a team is for its role-players, because the genesis for most of the role-players' productions is the offensive system—what coaches engineer—than their self-ability for much of their production.

Superstars still generate most of their production through their ball-dominant activity rather than systematic means, and any wise coach would keep them as an intricate part of the offense. How many superstars do you see dramatically decline or improve with a coaching changeover? No matter how good Pippen & co. are in the totality of their contributions, they were not adept shot-creators that allowed Michael Jordan to cherrypick with less intensive defensive coverage.

Jordan was singularized throughout most of his career for defensive focuses, as he's NEVER had an offensive superstar to work with. His most historically renowned collaborators are Scottie Pippen and Dennis Rodman—two players who ended up vaulted in the Hall of Fame more for their defensive prowess than they were for their offensive efficacy.

How does LeBron's short-handed team affect his own scoring efficience, on the other hand? With the loss of Kyrie Irving and Kevin Love, less attention would be focused on LeBron (if anything) because his biggest strength is as a playmaker, which should help his scoring efficience!

Unless LeBron drives to the basketball, as most of his non-FT points come as a penetrator, smart defenses typically do not overcommit to him—especially due to how badly he's struggled with his jumpshot in the playoff, and because they know LeBron will find the open man when he's double- or triple-teamed.

Moreover, footage shows that LeBron has had more than enough iso-defense jumpshots in the finals; he just didn't shoot efficiently because the majority of the open shots he had were not ones he's been consistent at.

mehyaM24
08-31-2015, 09:00 PM
again.. with another title wade still has ZERO case for top 15, let alone top 10.

the panelists on nba open court didn't even have wade in their "next 10" list. :oldlol: another title as MAYBE an all-star caliber would just SHOE HORN him in there?

gtfo :roll:

Wade's Rings
08-31-2015, 09:00 PM
no he wouldnt.. or else hondo would be in there


the mvp/fmvp/multiple titles triple threat is a prerequisite for all time top 10 consideration

only russell gets a pass for FMVP's cause the award wasnt around and it was named after him. plus he would have won 5-6+ of them


and regardless.. who said 3 fmvps? if wade wins next year he'l have 2 fmvps

You said an MVP & 2 Finals MVP are needed for Top 10 Consideration and I stated IF Wade had 3 Finals MVP he would still get Top 10 All-Time consideration.

Naero
08-31-2015, 09:00 PM
So Kobe's only 2 first option titles, against a so called pathetic conference like the East...... is suppose to be impressive??

Not trying to overrate Kobe, but this is a faulty generality that I can't help but respond to.

You are only citing his finals opponents, which constitutes for one playoff series out of four. He had to lead his team through three Western Conference opponents to even land in the finals, which has been a conference that's been by far the most formidable of the two within the past ~15 years.

Moreover, just because the Eastern Conference is the weaker of the two conferences doesn't preclude the eventuality of a formidable finals opponents. There have still always been at least two teams in the conference that

Wade's Rings
08-31-2015, 09:01 PM
again.. with another title wade still has ZERO case for top 15, let alone top 10.

the panelists on nba open court didn't even have wade in their "next 10" list. :oldlol: another title as MAYBE an all-star caliber would just SHOE HORN him in there?

gtfo :roll:

still melting down

mehyaM24
08-31-2015, 09:02 PM
still melting down

still no rebuttal aside from posting the same generic one liners.


get me a protein shake you ape. :oldlol:

Wade's Rings
08-31-2015, 09:06 PM
still no rebuttal aside from posting the same generic one liners.

Still making the same stupid claims :applause:



get me a protein shake you ape. :oldlol:


http://heahea.org/img/636-U_mad.jpg

SouBeachTalents
08-31-2015, 09:15 PM
i dunno i think my formula is solid


#1 Michael Jordan - 6 titles ( mvp winner )
#2 Kareem Abdul Jabbar - 6 titles ( mvp winner )
#3 Bill Russell - 5.5 titles ( mvp winner ) * half prestige for 60's
#4 Kobe Bryant - 5 titles ( mvp winner )
#5 Magic Johnson - 5 titles ( mvp winner )
#6 Tim Duncan - 4.5 titles ( mvp winner ) * half prestige for lockout
#7 Shaquille O'neal - 4 titles ( mvp winner )
#8 Larry Bird - 3 titles ( mvp winner )
#9 Hakeem Olajuwon - 2 titles ( mvp winner )
#10 Wilt Chamberlain - 1.5 titles ( mvp winner ) * half prestige for 60's
#11 Lebron James - 1.5 titles ( mvp winner ) * half prestige for lockout



i'd say finals records above all else break ties. then accolades

which is why jordan > kareem, Kobe > magic

So you truly believe Kobe losing in the 1st round back to back years and getting embarrassingly swept in 2011 is better than Magic losing in '89 to the Pistons (while missing most of the series) and losing to the Jordan Bulls in '91?

kennethgriffin
08-31-2015, 09:38 PM
So you truly believe Kobe losing in the 1st round back to back years and getting embarrassingly swept in 2011 is better than Magic losing in '89 to the Pistons (while missing most of the series) and losing to the Jordan Bulls in '91?


ive explained the finals record terminology countless times. nobody ever seems to listen


a) youre supposed to win more often than you lose in FIRST ROUNDS
b) youre supposed to win more often than you lose in SECOND ROUNDS
c) youre supposed to win more often than you lose in CONFERENCE FINALS
d) youre supposed to win more often than you lose in NBA FINALS


losing in the first round happens. its natural. wins and losses are a part of basketball. but as long as you have a +.500 record in every situation. then you have nothing to worry about




if youre good enough to make 6 finals. you better win atleast 3-4 of them.

ShawkFactory
08-31-2015, 09:43 PM
ive explained the finals record terminology countless times. nobody ever seems to listen


a) youre supposed to win more often than you lose in FIRST ROUNDS
b) youre supposed to win more often than you lose in SECOND ROUNDS
c) youre supposed to win more often than you lose in CONFERENCE FINALS
d) youre supposed to win more often than you lose in NBA FINALS


losing in the first round happens. its natural. wins and losses are a part of basketball. but as long as you have a +.500 record in every situation. then you have nothing to worry about




if youre good enough to make 6 finals. you better win atleast 3-4 of them.
But what about that weak east everyone always harps about????

Bankaii
08-31-2015, 09:46 PM
A couple Games? He "showed up" in Game 6 when Wade was hurt and in Game 1 he wasn't a factor in the 4th Quarter, Wade managed to win that game.



Congratulations. Wade still showed up in multiple Games and had good defense, Bron never did that.



It would've been possible if Bron didn't shit the bed in the 4th Quarter, something you avoided and only look at the numbers.



Bron Stans post shit like this and nobody bats an eye but 3ball posts something and he's an idiot :oldlol:
In 2013, Game 2: Wade is shit, Heat still win in blowout.
Game 4: Wade shows up.
Game 6: Wade is shit, Heat win.
Game 7: Wade does good, score 4 points in the 4th.
Your dumbass doesn't understand that leading the team in pretty much every category is freaking ridiculous.
And in the 2011 close out game Wade was shit, and only scored 4 points in the 4th, Lebron did decent.
And I'm not a Bron stan dumbass. You just can't accept that without him your name would be Wade's Ring*.
And L O freaking L and Wade playing good defense, if any defense, past 2011.

kennethgriffin
08-31-2015, 09:47 PM
But what about that weak east everyone always harps about????


if you dont wanna take the blame for the finals when you lose. dont take the praise for the titles when you win

hes either got 1.5 titles with 4 finals losses


or 0 titles with 0 finals losses


take your pick...


because if youre a fluke eastern rep. why should we give you credit when you fluke out a win with a lucky 3 or a lockout year vs an unworthy opponent

ShawkFactory
08-31-2015, 09:49 PM
if you dont wanna take the blame for the finals when you lose. dont take the praise for the titles when you win

hes either got 1.5 titles with 4 finals losses


or 0 titles with 0 finals losses


take your pick...


because if youre a fluke eastern rep. why should we give you credit when you fluke out a win with a lucky 3 or a lockout year vs an unworthy opponent
Didn't imply any of that, nor do I care. Just pointing out the usual gaping holes in your arguments.

ISHGoat
08-31-2015, 09:51 PM
OP i didnt read any of your posts, but I implore you to answer one question:

Which one is less impressive?

As the leader and first option, winning a title in a season with 16 less games in the regular season

or

As the second option, winning a title playing next to peak shaq?

Naero
08-31-2015, 09:52 PM
But what about that weak east everyone always harps about????

Just because Western Conference opponents don't consistently bump into daunting Eastern Conference teams doesn't mean it doesn't have one or two team that can hold their own against any Western Conference match-up.

Eastern Conference is reputed as weak because its title-contenders are sparse, not because its peak team is weak. In the finals, the Western Conference opponent will typically face off against one of the few title-contenders in that conference

SouBeachTalents
08-31-2015, 09:52 PM
OP i didnt read any of your posts, but I implore you to answer one question:

Which one is less impressive?

As the leader and first option, winning a title in a season with 16 less games in the regular season

or

As the second option, winning a title playing next to peak shaq?

I wonder what he's going to say

305Baller
08-31-2015, 09:53 PM
James. Next question.

ShawkFactory
08-31-2015, 09:55 PM
[QUOTE=Naero]Just because Western Conference opponents don't consistently bump into daunting Eastern Conference teams doesn't mean it doesn't have one or two team that can hold their own against any Western Conference match-up.

Eastern Conference is reputed as weak because its title-contenders are sparse, not because its peak team is weak. In the finals, the Western Conference opponent will typically face off against one of the few title-contenders in that conference

Wade's Rings
08-31-2015, 09:58 PM
In 2013, Game 2: Wade is shit, Heat still win in blowout.
Game 4: Wade shows up.
Game 6: Wade is shit, Heat win.
Game 7: Wade does good, score 4 points in the 4th.

You proved my point he stepped up way more than Bron did.


Your dumbass doesn't understand that leading the team in pretty much every category is freaking ridiculous.

When did I say it wasn't ridiculous?


And in the 2011 close out game Wade was shit, and only scored 4 points in the 4th, Lebron did decent.

Did I not say he was injured in Game 6? or you can't read?


And I'm not a Bron stan dumbass. You just can't accept that without him your name would be Wade's Ring*

:roll: Wade has a Ring without Bron, Bron hasn't won shit without Wade. Excellent deflection by changing it to me suddenly saying the Heat couldn't win without Bron or we didn't him :applause:


And L O freaking L and Wade playing good defense, if any defense, past 2011.

:oldlol: Like I said in my previous post, Bran stans post shit like this and 3ball gets hate

kennethgriffin
08-31-2015, 10:00 PM
OP i didnt read any of your posts, but I implore you to answer one question:

Which one is less impressive?

As the leader and first option, winning a title in a season with 16 less games in the regular season

or

As the second option, winning a title playing next to peak shaq?


kobe and shaq were a 2 man team. basically making up more than half of the lakers offense. carrying average dudes to 3 straight titles


kobe did his part in 2000, basically carried shaq in the 2 most important games of the year ( wcf game 7 ) and ( nba finals game 4 )

holding reggie miller to 1 for 16 in game 1. then dominating the game 6 clincher along with shaq. the averages were made worse due to an injury


at worst you gotta give kobe 0.5 for that title. with a slightly increased prestige since he saved the year multiple times for shaq. so atleast 0.7 or 0.8


as for 2001 and 2002. kobe was a clear 1B and should get nothing less than 0.9999 credit to shaqs 1.0000


since kobe during the season and playoffs was less than 1 point below shaqs average


but as i always mention when challenged. kobe has the 2 highest averages in nba history for 2nd leading scorers on a championship team


playoffs:

2001 Kobe Bryant 29.4
2002 Kobe Bryant 26.6
1986 Kevin Mchale 24.9
1958 Bob Pettit 24.2
1963 Sam Jones 23.8
1966 John Havlicek 23.6
1972 Jerry West 22.9
2012 Dwyane Wade 22.8
1987 Magic Johnson 21.8
1967 Wilt Chamberlain 21.7
1991 Scottie Pippen 21.6
1985 James Worthy 21.5
1978 Bob Dandridge 21.2
2000 Kobe Bryant 21.1
1957 Bill Sharman 21.1
1976 Dave Cowens 21.0
1979 Dennis Johnson 20.9
2005 Manu Ginobili 20.8
2007 Tony Parker 20.8
1962 Tom Heinsohn 20.7
1968 Sam Jones 20.5
1995 Clyde Drexler 20.5
1974 Dave Cowens 20.5
1982 Kareem Abdul Jabbar 20.4
1980 Jamaal Wilkes 20.3
1956 Neil Johnston 20.3
1993 Scottie Pippen 20.1
1959 Bill Sharman 20.1
2006 Shaquille O'neal 20.0
1988 Magic Johnson 19.9
2010 Pau Gasol 19.6
1992 Scottie Pippen 19.5
1997 Scottie Pippen 19.2
1971 Bob Dandridge 19.2
1961 Bill Russell 19.1
2008 Kevin Garnett 18.8
1983 Andrew Tony 18.8
2015 Klay Thompson 18.6
1965 John Havlicek 18.5
1960 Bill Russell 18.5
2009 Pau Gasol 18.3
1977 Bill Walton 18.2
1990 Joe Dumars 18.2
1989 Joe Dumars 17.6
2011 Jason Terry 17.5
1964 Tom Heinsohn 17.4
1970 Dick Barnett 16.9
1996 Scottie Pippen 16.9
1998 Scottie Pippen 16.8
1969 Sam Jones 16.8
1984 Dennis Johnson 16.6
2004 Chauncey Billups 16.4
2014 Tim Duncan 16.3
1981 Cedric Maxwell 16.1
1973 Earl Monroe 16.1
1952 Jim Pollard 16.1
2013 Dwyane Wade 15.9
1951 Bob Davies 15.9
1999 David Robinson 15.6
1975 Jamaal Wilkes 15.0
2003 Tony Parker 14.7
1953 Jim Pollard 14.3
1994 Vernon Maxwell 13.8
1955 Red Kerr 13.8
1950 Vern Mikkelsen 13.0
1954 Jim Pollard 12.3




Finals:

2002 Kobe Bryant 26.8
2001 Kobe bryant 24.6
1958 Bob Pettit 24.0 ( Cliff Hagan 25.3, playoffs and finals leader )
1986 Larry Bird 24.0 ( Mchale 25.8ppg )
1985 James Worthy 23.7
1971 Oscar Robertson 23.5
1963 Tom Heinsohn 23.3 ( Jones 24.6 )
1966 Sam Jones 22.9
1974 Dave Cowens 22.7
1979 Dennis Johnson 22.6 ( Gus Williams 29.0ppg finals, playoffs leader too..wtf? )
2012 Dwyane Wade 22.6
1959 Tie* Sharman/Ramsay 22.5 ( heinsohn 24.2 )
1962 Sam Jones 22.1 ( russell 22.8 )
1983 Andrew Tony 22.0 ( Julius Erving 3rd option in playoffs and finals )
1957 Bill Sharman 21.8 ( Heinsohn 24.0 )
1987 Kareem Abdul Jabbar 21.7
1980 Magic Johnson 21.5
1995 Clyde Drexler 21.5
1989 Isiah Thomas 21.3
1993 Scottie Pippen 21.2
1988 Magic Johnson 21.1
1968 Bailey Howell 21.0
2004 Chauncey Billups 21.0 (Rip playoff and finals leader. robbed )
1992 Scottie Pippen 20.8
1991 Scottie Pippen 20.8
1990 Joe Dumars 20.6
1976 Dave Cowens 20.5
1978 Bob Dandridge 20.4
2008 Ray Allen 20.3
1997 Scottie Pippen 20.0
1972 Jerry West 19.8
2013 Dwyane Wade 19.6
2005 Manu Ginobili 18.7
1969 Sam Jones 18.7
1970 Dick Barnett 18.6
2010 Pau Gasol 18.6
2009 Pau Gasol 18.6
1977 Bill Walton 18.5
1960 Frank Ramsay 18.4 ( Heinsohn 22.4 )
1964 John Havlicek 18.4
2007 Tim Duncan 18.3
1965 John Havlicek 18.2
2011 Jason Terry 18.0
1982 Kareem Abdul Jabbar 18.0
2014 Kawhi Leonard 17.8
1967 Wilt Chamberlain 17.7 ( Hal Greer 26.0ppg. would have been mvp )
1961 Bill Russell 17.6 ( heinsohn 22.0 )
1984 Dennis Johnson 17.6
1951 Bob Davies 17.0
1999 David Robinson 16.6
1973 Willis Reed 16.4
1952 Jim Pollard 16.4
2015 Andre Iguodala 16.3
1998 Scottie Pippen 15.7
1996 Scottie Pippen 15.7
2000 Kobe Bryant 15.6 ( *19.0 minus the 2 point injury game )
1981 Larry Bird 15.3 ( ....................wtf? )
1953 Jim Pollard 14.4
2003 Tony Parker 14.0
2006 Antoine Walker 13.8 ( Shaq only averaged 13.7 )
1956 Neil Johnston 13.6 ( Arizin 27.6 )
1950 Jim Pollard 13.6 ( mikan 32.1 )
1994 Vernon Maxwell 13.4
1955 Kerr 12.2 ( schayes 19.0 )
1975 Jamaal Wilkes 11.5
1954 Pollard 10.8 ( Mikan 18.1 )






so

Kobe 2000 = 0.7 ( minimum )
Kobe 2001 = 0.9 ( minimum )
Kobe 2002 = 0.9 ( minimum )


while a lockout is an automatic 0.5 ( MAXIMUM )


and hes lucky to get that considering how he got to miami

ring chasing is never an accomplishment

ISHGoat
08-31-2015, 10:07 PM
kobe and shaq were a 2 man team. basically making up more than half of the lakers offense. carrying average dudes to 3 straight titles


kobe did his part in 2000, basically carried shaq in the 2 most important games of the year ( wcf game 7 ) and ( nba finals game 4 )

holding reggie miller to 1 for 16 in game 1. then dominating the game 6 clincher along with shaq. the averages were made worse due to an injury


at worst you gotta give kobe 0.5 for that title. with a slightly increased prestige since he saved the year multiple times for shaq. so atleast 0.7 or 0.8


as for 2001 and 2002. kobe was a clear 1B and should get nothing less than 0.9999 credit to shaqs 1.0000


since kobe during the season and playoffs was less than 1 point below shaqs average


but as i always mention when challenged. kobe has the 2 highest averages in nba history for 2nd leading scorers on a championship team


playoffs:

2001 Kobe Bryant 29.4
2002 Kobe Bryant 26.6
1986 Kevin Mchale 24.9
1958 Bob Pettit 24.2
1963 Sam Jones 23.8
1966 John Havlicek 23.6
1972 Jerry West 22.9
2012 Dwyane Wade 22.8
1987 Magic Johnson 21.8
1967 Wilt Chamberlain 21.7
1991 Scottie Pippen 21.6
1985 James Worthy 21.5
1978 Bob Dandridge 21.2
2000 Kobe Bryant 21.1
1957 Bill Sharman 21.1
1976 Dave Cowens 21.0
1979 Dennis Johnson 20.9
2005 Manu Ginobili 20.8
2007 Tony Parker 20.8
1962 Tom Heinsohn 20.7
1968 Sam Jones 20.5
1995 Clyde Drexler 20.5
1974 Dave Cowens 20.5
1982 Kareem Abdul Jabbar 20.4
1980 Jamaal Wilkes 20.3
1956 Neil Johnston 20.3
1993 Scottie Pippen 20.1
1959 Bill Sharman 20.1
2006 Shaquille O'neal 20.0
1988 Magic Johnson 19.9
2010 Pau Gasol 19.6
1992 Scottie Pippen 19.5
1997 Scottie Pippen 19.2
1971 Bob Dandridge 19.2
1961 Bill Russell 19.1
2008 Kevin Garnett 18.8
1983 Andrew Tony 18.8
2015 Klay Thompson 18.6
1965 John Havlicek 18.5
1960 Bill Russell 18.5
2009 Pau Gasol 18.3
1977 Bill Walton 18.2
1990 Joe Dumars 18.2
1989 Joe Dumars 17.6
2011 Jason Terry 17.5
1964 Tom Heinsohn 17.4
1970 Dick Barnett 16.9
1996 Scottie Pippen 16.9
1998 Scottie Pippen 16.8
1969 Sam Jones 16.8
1984 Dennis Johnson 16.6
2004 Chauncey Billups 16.4
2014 Tim Duncan 16.3
1981 Cedric Maxwell 16.1
1973 Earl Monroe 16.1
1952 Jim Pollard 16.1
2013 Dwyane Wade 15.9
1951 Bob Davies 15.9
1999 David Robinson 15.6
1975 Jamaal Wilkes 15.0
2003 Tony Parker 14.7
1953 Jim Pollard 14.3
1994 Vernon Maxwell 13.8
1955 Red Kerr 13.8
1950 Vern Mikkelsen 13.0
1954 Jim Pollard 12.3




Finals:

2002 Kobe Bryant 26.8
2001 Kobe bryant 24.6
1958 Bob Pettit 24.0 ( Cliff Hagan 25.3, playoffs and finals leader )
1986 Larry Bird 24.0 ( Mchale 25.8ppg )
1985 James Worthy 23.7
1971 Oscar Robertson 23.5
1963 Tom Heinsohn 23.3 ( Jones 24.6 )
1966 Sam Jones 22.9
1974 Dave Cowens 22.7
1979 Dennis Johnson 22.6 ( Gus Williams 29.0ppg finals, playoffs leader too..wtf? )
2012 Dwyane Wade 22.6
1959 Tie* Sharman/Ramsay 22.5 ( heinsohn 24.2 )
1962 Sam Jones 22.1 ( russell 22.8 )
1983 Andrew Tony 22.0 ( Julius Erving 3rd option in playoffs and finals )
1957 Bill Sharman 21.8 ( Heinsohn 24.0 )
1987 Kareem Abdul Jabbar 21.7
1980 Magic Johnson 21.5
1995 Clyde Drexler 21.5
1989 Isiah Thomas 21.3
1993 Scottie Pippen 21.2
1988 Magic Johnson 21.1
1968 Bailey Howell 21.0
2004 Chauncey Billups 21.0 (Rip playoff and finals leader. robbed )
1992 Scottie Pippen 20.8
1991 Scottie Pippen 20.8
1990 Joe Dumars 20.6
1976 Dave Cowens 20.5
1978 Bob Dandridge 20.4
2008 Ray Allen 20.3
1997 Scottie Pippen 20.0
1972 Jerry West 19.8
2013 Dwyane Wade 19.6
2005 Manu Ginobili 18.7
1969 Sam Jones 18.7
1970 Dick Barnett 18.6
2010 Pau Gasol 18.6
2009 Pau Gasol 18.6
1977 Bill Walton 18.5
1960 Frank Ramsay 18.4 ( Heinsohn 22.4 )
1964 John Havlicek 18.4
2007 Tim Duncan 18.3
1965 John Havlicek 18.2
2011 Jason Terry 18.0
1982 Kareem Abdul Jabbar 18.0
2014 Kawhi Leonard 17.8
1967 Wilt Chamberlain 17.7 ( Hal Greer 26.0ppg. would have been mvp )
1961 Bill Russell 17.6 ( heinsohn 22.0 )
1984 Dennis Johnson 17.6
1951 Bob Davies 17.0
1999 David Robinson 16.6
1973 Willis Reed 16.4
1952 Jim Pollard 16.4
2015 Andre Iguodala 16.3
1998 Scottie Pippen 15.7
1996 Scottie Pippen 15.7
2000 Kobe Bryant 15.6 ( *19.0 minus the 2 point injury game )
1981 Larry Bird 15.3 ( ....................wtf? )
1953 Jim Pollard 14.4
2003 Tony Parker 14.0
2006 Antoine Walker 13.8 ( Shaq only averaged 13.7 )
1956 Neil Johnston 13.6 ( Arizin 27.6 )
1950 Jim Pollard 13.6 ( mikan 32.1 )
1994 Vernon Maxwell 13.4
1955 Kerr 12.2 ( schayes 19.0 )
1975 Jamaal Wilkes 11.5
1954 Pollard 10.8 ( Mikan 18.1 )






so

Kobe 2000 = 0.7 ( minimum )
Kobe 2001 = 0.9 ( minimum )
Kobe 2002 = 0.9 ( minimum )


while a lockout is an automatic 0.5 ( MAXIMUM )


and hes lucky to get that considering how he got to miami

ring chasing is never an accomplishment

you didnt answer my question. does kobe get more credit for winning while playing next to peak shaq or does lebron get more credit for winning as the alpha in a season that had a shortened regular season?

Naero
08-31-2015, 10:07 PM
The heavy implication is that Lebrons teams wouldn't be good enough to get to the finals in the west.

That is what my argument is supporting more than anything else.

Head-to-head record in the regular season for Western Conference teams vs Eastern Conference teams in LeBron's finals appearances: Western Conference wins with an average of 74.3 games above .500. Uncoincidentally, LeBron's teams have also went 2/6 in the finals, where they inevitably face Western Conference opponents.

The NBA finals has effectively taken place in the Western Conference finals each year, and it is a finals that LeBron would have a more uphill challenge at even reaching than most of what his teams have jockeyed against in the Eastern Conference.

kennethgriffin
08-31-2015, 10:08 PM
you didnt answer my question. does kobe get more credit for winning while playing next to peak shaq or does lebron get more credit for winning as the alpha in a season that had a shortened regular season?


um.. i totally answered your question doofus

go back and read it again



kobe and shaq were a 2 man team. basically making up more than half of the lakers offense. carrying average dudes to 3 straight titles


kobe did his part in 2000, basically carried shaq in the 2 most important games of the year ( wcf game 7 ) and ( nba finals game 4 )

holding reggie miller to 1 for 16 in game 1. then dominating the game 6 clincher along with shaq. the averages were made worse due to an injury


at worst you gotta give kobe 0.5 for that title. with a slightly increased prestige since he saved the year multiple times for shaq. so atleast 0.7 or 0.8


as for 2001 and 2002. kobe was a clear 1B and should get nothing less than 0.9999 credit to shaqs 1.0000


since kobe during the season and playoffs was less than 1 point below shaqs average


but as i always mention when challenged. kobe has the 2 highest averages in nba history for 2nd leading scorers on a championship team


playoffs:

2001 Kobe Bryant 29.4
2002 Kobe Bryant 26.6
1986 Kevin Mchale 24.9
1958 Bob Pettit 24.2
1963 Sam Jones 23.8
1966 John Havlicek 23.6
1972 Jerry West 22.9
2012 Dwyane Wade 22.8
1987 Magic Johnson 21.8
1967 Wilt Chamberlain 21.7
1991 Scottie Pippen 21.6
1985 James Worthy 21.5
1978 Bob Dandridge 21.2
2000 Kobe Bryant 21.1
1957 Bill Sharman 21.1
1976 Dave Cowens 21.0
1979 Dennis Johnson 20.9
2005 Manu Ginobili 20.8
2007 Tony Parker 20.8
1962 Tom Heinsohn 20.7
1968 Sam Jones 20.5
1995 Clyde Drexler 20.5
1974 Dave Cowens 20.5
1982 Kareem Abdul Jabbar 20.4
1980 Jamaal Wilkes 20.3
1956 Neil Johnston 20.3
1993 Scottie Pippen 20.1
1959 Bill Sharman 20.1
2006 Shaquille O'neal 20.0
1988 Magic Johnson 19.9
2010 Pau Gasol 19.6
1992 Scottie Pippen 19.5
1997 Scottie Pippen 19.2
1971 Bob Dandridge 19.2
1961 Bill Russell 19.1
2008 Kevin Garnett 18.8
1983 Andrew Tony 18.8
2015 Klay Thompson 18.6
1965 John Havlicek 18.5
1960 Bill Russell 18.5
2009 Pau Gasol 18.3
1977 Bill Walton 18.2
1990 Joe Dumars 18.2
1989 Joe Dumars 17.6
2011 Jason Terry 17.5
1964 Tom Heinsohn 17.4
1970 Dick Barnett 16.9
1996 Scottie Pippen 16.9
1998 Scottie Pippen 16.8
1969 Sam Jones 16.8
1984 Dennis Johnson 16.6
2004 Chauncey Billups 16.4
2014 Tim Duncan 16.3
1981 Cedric Maxwell 16.1
1973 Earl Monroe 16.1
1952 Jim Pollard 16.1
2013 Dwyane Wade 15.9
1951 Bob Davies 15.9
1999 David Robinson 15.6
1975 Jamaal Wilkes 15.0
2003 Tony Parker 14.7
1953 Jim Pollard 14.3
1994 Vernon Maxwell 13.8
1955 Red Kerr 13.8
1950 Vern Mikkelsen 13.0
1954 Jim Pollard 12.3




Finals:

2002 Kobe Bryant 26.8
2001 Kobe bryant 24.6
1958 Bob Pettit 24.0 ( Cliff Hagan 25.3, playoffs and finals leader )
1986 Larry Bird 24.0 ( Mchale 25.8ppg )
1985 James Worthy 23.7
1971 Oscar Robertson 23.5
1963 Tom Heinsohn 23.3 ( Jones 24.6 )
1966 Sam Jones 22.9
1974 Dave Cowens 22.7
1979 Dennis Johnson 22.6 ( Gus Williams 29.0ppg finals, playoffs leader too..wtf? )
2012 Dwyane Wade 22.6
1959 Tie* Sharman/Ramsay 22.5 ( heinsohn 24.2 )
1962 Sam Jones 22.1 ( russell 22.8 )
1983 Andrew Tony 22.0 ( Julius Erving 3rd option in playoffs and finals )
1957 Bill Sharman 21.8 ( Heinsohn 24.0 )
1987 Kareem Abdul Jabbar 21.7
1980 Magic Johnson 21.5
1995 Clyde Drexler 21.5
1989 Isiah Thomas 21.3
1993 Scottie Pippen 21.2
1988 Magic Johnson 21.1
1968 Bailey Howell 21.0
2004 Chauncey Billups 21.0 (Rip playoff and finals leader. robbed )
1992 Scottie Pippen 20.8
1991 Scottie Pippen 20.8
1990 Joe Dumars 20.6
1976 Dave Cowens 20.5
1978 Bob Dandridge 20.4
2008 Ray Allen 20.3
1997 Scottie Pippen 20.0
1972 Jerry West 19.8
2013 Dwyane Wade 19.6
2005 Manu Ginobili 18.7
1969 Sam Jones 18.7
1970 Dick Barnett 18.6
2010 Pau Gasol 18.6
2009 Pau Gasol 18.6
1977 Bill Walton 18.5
1960 Frank Ramsay 18.4 ( Heinsohn 22.4 )
1964 John Havlicek 18.4
2007 Tim Duncan 18.3
1965 John Havlicek 18.2
2011 Jason Terry 18.0
1982 Kareem Abdul Jabbar 18.0
2014 Kawhi Leonard 17.8
1967 Wilt Chamberlain 17.7 ( Hal Greer 26.0ppg. would have been mvp )
1961 Bill Russell 17.6 ( heinsohn 22.0 )
1984 Dennis Johnson 17.6
1951 Bob Davies 17.0
1999 David Robinson 16.6
1973 Willis Reed 16.4
1952 Jim Pollard 16.4
2015 Andre Iguodala 16.3
1998 Scottie Pippen 15.7
1996 Scottie Pippen 15.7
2000 Kobe Bryant 15.6 ( *19.0 minus the 2 point injury game )
1981 Larry Bird 15.3 ( ....................wtf? )
1953 Jim Pollard 14.4
2003 Tony Parker 14.0
2006 Antoine Walker 13.8 ( Shaq only averaged 13.7 )
1956 Neil Johnston 13.6 ( Arizin 27.6 )
1950 Jim Pollard 13.6 ( mikan 32.1 )
1994 Vernon Maxwell 13.4
1955 Kerr 12.2 ( schayes 19.0 )
1975 Jamaal Wilkes 11.5
1954 Pollard 10.8 ( Mikan 18.1 )






so

Kobe 2000 = 0.7 ( minimum )
Kobe 2001 = 0.9 ( minimum )
Kobe 2002 = 0.9 ( minimum )


while a lockout is an automatic 0.5 ( MAXIMUM )


and hes lucky to get that considering how he got to miami

ring chasing is never an accomplishment

ISHGoat
08-31-2015, 10:09 PM
um.. i totally answered your question doofus

go back and read it again

so it is harder to win a ring playing next to shaq

than

win a ring in a season in which everyone plays 16 less games?

for the record, please answer yes or no only.


your ring values of 0.7, 0.9, 0.5, etc are arbitrary and are a result of your own logic and reasoning. for my own satisfaction, I would like a yes/no answer to my posted question.

however, do you know what is not arbitrary? WS/48, BPM, etc through the playoffs.

but we all know that stats are kobe haters and not objective. lets just stick to assigning numbers out of our ass for how much a ring is worth.

SouBeachTalents
08-31-2015, 10:12 PM
so it is harder to win a ring playing next to shaq

than

win a ring in a season in which everyone plays 16 less games?

for the record, please answer yes or no only.








do you know how stupid this sounds to everyone on this forum but you?

Lol, the funniest part is, Kobe played in 66 games in 2000, LeBron played in 62 in the "asterisk" season

kennethgriffin
08-31-2015, 10:16 PM
so it is harder to win a ring playing next to shaq

than

win a ring in a season in which everyone plays 16 less games?

for the record, please answer yes or no only.








do you know how stupid this sounds to everyone on this forum but you?


for what kobe did in ( A REAL SEASON ) + WCF game 7 saving the season in the biggest game of kobe/shaqs lives ( leading in Points, rebounds, assists, blocks ) basically winning the nba title THAT NIGHT vs portland ( their biggest challenge ) ... then topping it off with another epic saving moment in game 4 when shaq tried to choke it away again ( + holding reggie to 1 for 16 in game 1... and an epic game 6 )

vs

coasting in 2012 on a colluded ring chased team in the pathetic east during a 66 game season in which their biggest competition had its star go down with a torn knee. then show up in the finals and only have to beat a 23 year old durant ( who isnt even alpha yet, still thought his mom was more valuable in 2014 a few years later when he won mvp )


its almost as if lebron faced no adversity


kobe on the other hand had shaqs legacy and his own ( at the time ) hanging on his desperation performances in game 7 wcf and game 4 nba finals

like stephen a smith said. he gives the edge to the guy who goes through more trouble


the CHEAT didnt go through sh*t ...and it was a fake season....

Naero
08-31-2015, 10:17 PM
Lol, the funniest part is, Kobe played in 66 games in 2000, LeBron played in 62 in the "asterisk" season

Lockout-abridged seasons are asterisk-marked because teams have much less time to refine team cohesion before the playoffs, and the playoff-seeding ends up more skewed with teams that'd likely have lower-seeded berths compared to other teams that perform better in the long haul.

In these cases, superstar-led teams tend to overachieve the most, because teams with a (theoretically) more well-developed game plan (which they have less time to do in lockout-shortened seasons) aren't in as good of shape to counter-strategize against them; that's mainly why an asterisk is given to LeBron's 2012 championship, in this case.

ISHGoat
08-31-2015, 10:18 PM
Lockout-abridged seasons are asterisk-marked because teams have much less time to refine team cohesion before the playoffs, and the playoff-seeding ends up more skewed with teams that'd likely have lower-seeded berths compared to other teams that perform better in the long haul.

In these cases, superstar-led teams tend to overachieve the most, because teams with a (theoretically) more well-developed game plan (which they have less time to do in lockout-shortened seasons) aren't in as good of shape to counter-strategize against them; that's mainly why an asterisk is given to LeBron's 2012 championship, in this case.

Pure conjecture. Provide evidence.

ISHGoat
08-31-2015, 10:19 PM
for what kobe did in ( A REAL SEASON ) + WCF game 7 saving the season in the biggest game of kobe/shaqs lives ( leading in Points, rebounds, assists, blocks ) basically winning the nba title THAT NIGHT vs portland ( their biggest challenge ) ... then topping it off with another epic saving moment in game 4 when shaq tried to choke it away again ( + holding reggie to 1 for 16 in game 1... and an epic game 6 )

vs

coasting in 2012 on a colluded ring chased team in the pathetic east during a 66 game season in which their biggest competition had its star go down with a torn knee. then show up in the finals and only have to beat a 23 year old durant ( who isnt even alpha yet, still thought his mom was more valuable in 2014 a few years later when he won mvp )


its almost as if lebron faced no adversity


kobe on the other hand had shaqs legacy and his own ( at the time ) hanging on his desperation performances in game 7 wcf and game 4 nba finals

like stephen a smith said. he gives the edge to the guy who goes through more trouble


the CHEAT didnt go through sh*t ...and it was a fake season....

tldr

I do not see an answer, only the same excuses I have seen countless times (fake season, collusion, blah blah). I will assume that you do not wish to answer my question.

mehyaM24
08-31-2015, 10:20 PM
so it is harder to win a ring playing next to shaq

than

win a ring in a season in which everyone plays 16 less games?

for the record, please answer yes or no only.


your ring values of 0.7, 0.9, 0.5, etc are arbitrary and are a result of your own logic and reasoning. for my own satisfaction, I would like a yes/no answer to my posted question.

however, do you know what is not arbitrary? WS/48, BPM, etc through the playoffs.

but we all know that stats are kobe haters and not objective. lets just stick to assigning numbers out of our ass for how much a ring is worth.

all this - except the box score, team stats. you don't need that man.


2000 shaq = goat peak player


took rather ordinary players to the finals, and in that finals, he carried everyone. kobe was trash in that series (role player status) yet shaq averaged close to 40ppg, dominated the boards and played amazing defense.


rapm suggests its one of the greatest individual seasons ever.


people talk about hakeem carrying one of the heaviest loads in league history, but so did shaq.

ShawkFactory
08-31-2015, 10:21 PM
Lockout-abridged seasons are asterisk-marked because teams have much less time to refine team cohesion before the playoffs, and the playoff-seeding ends up more skewed with teams that'd likely have lower-seeded berths compared to other teams that perform better in the long haul.

In these cases, superstar-led teams tend to overachieve the most, because teams with a (theoretically) more well-developed game plan (which they have less time to do in lockout-shortened seasons) aren't in as good of shape to counter-strategize against them; that's mainly why an asterisk is given to LeBron's 2012 championship, in this case.So blatantly an alt :oldlol:

They played 16 less regular season games :lol

kennethgriffin
08-31-2015, 10:22 PM
Lol, the funniest part is, Kobe played in 66 games in 2000, LeBron played in 62 in the "asterisk" season


the 66 games kobe played in didnt effect other teams training camps, practices, off days, flight schedules, back to back to backs, 4 games in 5 nights, causing injuries to half the leagues stars, most notibly the one who was lebrons toughest competition and a reigning mvp which was never the same since, giving the edge to young stars and coaches with systems in place ( lebron/heat and durant/thunder ) . while hurting older stars ( kobe/duncan and coaches with new systems in place = mike brown ) and ultimately killing chicago



the lockout changes everything.


without a lockout in 1999 the jazz likely win the title. the bulls in 2012



think 4th dimensionally and youl understand why its a BOLD every lasting ASTERISK

SouBeachTalents
08-31-2015, 10:23 PM
for what kobe did in ( A REAL SEASON ) + WCF game 7 saving the season in the biggest game of kobe/shaqs lives ( leading in Points, rebounds, assists, blocks ) basically winning the nba title THAT NIGHT vs portland ( their biggest challenge ) ... then topping it off with another epic saving moment in game 4 when shaq tried to choke it away again ( + holding reggie to 1 for 16 in game 1... and an epic game 6 )

vs

coasting in 2012 on a colluded ring chased team in the pathetic east during a 66 game season in which their biggest competition had its star go down with a torn knee. then show up in the finals and only have to beat a 23 year old durant ( who isnt even alpha yet, still thought his mom was more valuable in 2014 a few years later when he won mvp )


its almost as if lebron faced no adversity


kobe on the other hand had shaqs legacy and his own ( at the time ) hanging on his desperation performances in game 7 wcf and game 4 nba finals

like stephen a smith said. he gives the edge to the guy who goes through more trouble


the CHEAT didnt go through sh*t ...and it was a fake season....

26/10/4 on 30%=Epic

And I guess missing Bosh for half the playoffs wasn't facing any adversity at all

ISHGoat
08-31-2015, 10:23 PM
the 66 games kobe played in didnt effect other teams training camps, practices, off days, flight schedules, back to back to backs, 4 games in 5 nights, causing injuries to half the leagues stars, most notibly the one who was lebrons toughest competition and a reigning mvp which was never the same since, giving the edge to young stars and coaches with systems in place ( lebron/heat and durant/thunder ) . while hurting older stars ( kobe/duncan and coaches with new systems in place = mike brown ) and ultimately killing chicago



the lockout changes everything.


without a lockout in 1999 the jazz likely win the title. the bulls in 2012



think 4th dimensionally and youl understand why its a BOLD every lasting ASTERISK

its a bold ****ing asterisk because they played less games in the regular season than the standard amount. everyone is affected equally.

the regular season has an asterisk. does the finals championship have an asterisk engraved on it? does the fmvp? does the mvp award? do all star selections?

the only place the asterisk is applied is where THE REGULAR SEASON is being documented.

kennethgriffin
08-31-2015, 10:24 PM
its a bold ****ing asterisk because they played less games in the regular season than the standard amount. everyone is affected equally.


sorry... without the lockout its more than likely chicago wins the title

even without rose they finished in 1st place

with him 100% in MVP form they probably beat miami

ISHGoat
08-31-2015, 10:26 PM
sorry... without the lockout its more than likely chicago wins the title

even without rose they finished in 1st place

with him 100% in MVP form they probably beat miami

once again, facts go out the window and bullshit comes out from your ass.

kennethgriffin
08-31-2015, 10:26 PM
the 2012 lockout schedule basically ended derrick rose's career

Naero
08-31-2015, 10:28 PM
Pure conjecture. Provide evidence.

Evidence: training camps and pre-season in 2011 didn't start until December 9th, and the regular-season games didn't start until Christmas on that day

ISHGoat
08-31-2015, 10:30 PM
Evidence: training camps and pre-season in 2011 didn't start until December 9th, and the regular-season games didn't start until Christmas on that day—15 days of pre-season play, effectively, which gave teams less time to prepare as usual.

My takeaways from that may only be inferential, but all takeaways here are opinionated; it's just that reasonable inferences that stem from facts merit more credence.

A more result-oriented fact: the only 8th-seeded NBA team in playoffs history to make the finals did so during another lockout-shortened season in '99.

Not trying to discredit LeBron's contributions during the 2012 championship as the OP is; rather, I was addressing the lack of a sound perspective on how lockouts allow some otherwise-inconsistent teams to overachieve.

During these lockout-shortened seasons, there is less time to prepare for the regular season in the pre-season, less time to solidify a gameplay and team chemistry before the playoffs, a more condensed schedule to make up for lost time that increases the risks of injury, and so on. You can't overlook the effect that it has on teams that would perform better if they had the standard NBA schedule.

I do not think that a reasonable person could infer from the part highlighted in red that Lebron somehow gained an advantage from this. He was affected equally by those circumstances.

Did lebron have more time to prepare for the regular season?
Did lebron have more time to solidify a gameplay [sic]?
etc..

I will concede that old teams may fare poorer than young teams, and new teams poorer than old teams

but none of the teams that had a decent chance of beating Lebron could be considered "old" or "new"

The core of the bulls has been together for a while, as has OKC's.

kennethgriffin
08-31-2015, 10:33 PM
once again, facts go out the window and bullshit comes out from your ass.


sooooooo..


derrick rose plays in 39 out of 66 games

yet chicago still ends up with a 50-16 record

miami ends up with a 46-20 record



and you think a team with a better record ADDING its best player ( A REIGNING LEAGUE MVP )

wouldnt be enough?

























http://media.giphy.com/media/Vg0JstydL8HCg/giphy.gif

ISHGoat
08-31-2015, 10:34 PM
sooooooo..


derrick rose plays in 39 out of 66 games

yet chicago still ends up with a 50-16 record

miami ends up with a 46-20 record



and you think a team with a better record ADDING its best player ( A REIGNING LEAGUE MVP )

wouldnt be enough?

























http://media.giphy.com/media/Vg0JstydL8HCg/giphy.gif

It is my opinion that Rose is HIGHLY OVERRATED due to his supposedly "clutch play" and fancy highlights, and not very impactful in the playoffs. Has his team ever beaten Lebron's? Has his team ever even come close?

kennethgriffin
08-31-2015, 10:36 PM
It is my opinion that Rose is HIGHLY OVERRATED due to his supposedly "clutch play" and fancy highlights, and not very impactful in the playoffs


Derrick Rose pre injury was a 25/4/8 player

add that to a team with a 60 win 82 game % that got there without him... its over


shut it down

ISHGoat
08-31-2015, 10:38 PM
Derrick Rose pre injury was a 25/4/8 player

add that to a team with a 60 win 82 game % that got there without him... its over


shut it down

They did not "get there without him". He only got injured in the second round

How did they do against lebron the years drose was healthy?

If your argument for lebron's ring in 2012 being worth 0.5 rests upon "but drose was injured doe! bulls 2012 champs!" then Imma peace out of this thread. Come up with sometihng better.

kennethgriffin
08-31-2015, 10:41 PM
They did not "get there without him". He only got injured in the second round

How did they do against lebron the years drose was healthy?

If your argument for lebron's ring in 2012 being worth 0.5 rests upon "but drose was injured doe! bulls 2012 champs!" then Imma peace out of this thread. Come up with sometihng better.









































https://cdn1.lockerdome.com/uploads/2358c5ffa5194461dfa2dc43ddd4015613e61775558f256cdd a905dff2aac50f_large

ISHGoat
08-31-2015, 10:42 PM
https://cdn1.lockerdome.com/uploads/2358c5ffa5194461dfa2dc43ddd4015613e61775558f256cdd a905dff2aac50f_large

exactly, your entire premise is flawed. healthy drose is as real as shaq sized nate rob

305Baller
08-31-2015, 10:42 PM
LeBron OWNS Rose's soul. Next question.

kennethgriffin
08-31-2015, 10:45 PM
exactly, your entire premise is flawed. healthy drose is as real as shaq sized nate rob


thats the entire joke

the 2012 lockout injury to rose ended his career

:lol

he's never been the same since.

that schedule destroyed his leg forever

lilteapot
08-31-2015, 10:45 PM
kennethgriffin is a fake kobe fan. doesnt respect his parents either and will be a terrible parent.

mehyaM24
08-31-2015, 10:46 PM
Derrick Rose pre injury was a 25/4/8 player

add that to a team with a 60 win 82 game % that got there without him... its over


shut it down



your entire logic was shut down lol


you're counting asterisk rings when kobe played basically the same number of games "lockout lebron" did. not only that, but kobe was worse than at least 3 or 4 players in the 2000 finals. :roll:


when you say "5 rings" this one isn't anywhere near what lebron and shaq did to get their titles.
this is why i've been preaching that championships are overrated.


they aren't 100% irrelevant, but when people use kobe's 2000 title as some beacon of truth, that's when you know they don't understand basketball.

ISHGoat
08-31-2015, 10:47 PM
thats the entire joke

the 2012 lockout injury to rose ended his career

:lol

he's never been the same since.

that schedule destroyed his leg forever

you still fail to make the connection between rose's injury and lebron's championship value, as lebron historically owns chicago's soul. we can go back and look at miami heat championship vegas odds before and after drose was injured, but that would be too much work for arguing against a known retard.

but, id certainly bet my soul plus mortgage that having shaq on/off the threepeat lakers affected the lakers odds more than drose & the cavs.

Bankaii
08-31-2015, 11:10 PM
You proved my point he stepped up way more than Bron did.



When did I say it wasn't ridiculous?



Did I not say he was injured in Game 6? or you can't read?



:roll: Wade has a Ring without Bron, Bron hasn't won shit without Wade. Excellent deflection by changing it to me suddenly saying the Heat couldn't win without Bron or we didn't him :applause:



:oldlol: Like I said in my previous post, Bran stans post shit like this and 3ball gets hate
How does that prove your point? Lebron was the Heat's best player in 2011 in Games 1 and 6. And 1-2 other games he was a solid 2nd option. There is not a single game in the 2013 Finals where Wade was the Heat's best player. His best game was Game 5 and they were about equal. Wade had enough help to win, stop the excuses.

Wade won a ring in one of the most rigged series of all time, everyone knows that.

And dude hasn't made a All-D team since 2010.:roll:
Lemme guess, he was a good defender in 2014 too?:rolleyes:
Must suck being a fan of a guy always coming in 2nd, to GOATbe.

Wade's Rings
08-31-2015, 11:37 PM
How does that prove your point?

It shows that Wade stepped in multiple Games, something Bron didn't do.


Lebron was the Heat's best player in 2011 in Games 1 and 6.

Not Game 1. Wade was better that game.


And 1-2 other games he was a solid 2nd option.

:oldlol: Keep avoiding the 4th Quarter and his Defense.


There is not a single game in the 2013 Finals where Wade was the Heat's best player.

So Wade wasn't the best player in Game 4? :roll:


His best game was Game 5 and they were about equal.

No it was Game 4.


Wade had enough help to win, stop the excuses.

Excuses? Bron went ghost in the 4th Quarter with shit defense and you constantly avoid this.


Wade won a ring in one of the most rigged series of all time, everyone knows that.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6013055&postcount=19

:sleeping


And dude hasn't made a All-D team since 2010.:roll:

So now your Defense is judged on All-D Teams. Great to know Kobe is up there with Pippen, Duncan, Jordan, Hakeem, Garnett, and Payton :applause:


Lemme guess, he was a good defender in 2014 too?:rolleyes:

When did I say this? Keep putting words in my mouth :applause:


Must suck being a fan of a guy always coming in 2nd, to GOATbe.

A1 Deflection :applause: Also, considering you Bron stans have been getting your shit pushed in by Kobe Stans around here lately, I wouldn't be talking :oldlol:

Vaniiiia
08-31-2015, 11:53 PM
kennethgriffin is a fake kobe fan. doesnt respect his parents either and will be a terrible parent.
He's just a loser who isn't afraid to show it.

I think he takes pride in being looked down upon on here. We know he's trolling and trying to get under peoples skin... because he lacks real life connections, but it's not about that for me. I just see a sad guy who spends the majority of his life posting nonsense just for the sake of being noticed.

ShawkFactory
08-31-2015, 11:54 PM
sorry... without the lockout its more than likely chicago wins the title

even without rose they finished in 1st place

with him 100% in MVP form they probably beat miami
No no no no no no. We don't use speculation, remember?

We only use facts.

And facts are that Lebron has never lost to Derrick Rose and the Bulls.

SamuraiSWISH
09-01-2015, 12:01 AM
Let's just entertain this and ignore the ludicrous nature of the question at hand.

Because LeBron is easily the best player of my generation (same age), probably a top five talent all time and already easily top ten. Which Wade isn't. Though he is one of the five best SGs ever and a top 25 player of all time.

If he won an MVP, a Chip, and Finals MVP all in the same year ... Bringing his totals to

4x Rings
MVP
2x Finals MVPs

Well, considering their peak is roughly equal, there wouldn't be all that much separation from Kobe resume wise apart from a longer prime from Bryant and an additional side kick ring courtesy of 2000 peak Shaq.

So OP thread backfire if this did happen. And even then LeBron still has a better resume than both Kobe and Wade.

Vaniiiia
09-01-2015, 12:03 AM
Let's just entertain this and ignore the ludicrous nature of the question at hand.

Because LeBron is easily the best player of my generation (same age), probably a top five talent all time and already easily top ten. Which Wade isn't. Though he is one of the five best SGs ever and a top 25 player of all time.

If he won an MVP, a Chip, and Finals MVP all in the same year ... Bringing his totals to

4x Rings
MVP
2x Finals MVPs

Well, considering their peak is roughly equal, there wouldn't be all that much separation from Kobe resume wise apart from a longer prime from Bryant and an additional side kick ring courtesy of 2000 peak Shaq.

So OP thread backfire if this did happen. And even then LeBron still has a better resume than both Kobe and Wade.
rat poison.

well done, coach.

kennethgriffin
09-01-2015, 12:11 AM
Let's just entertain this and ignore the ludicrous nature of the question at hand.

Because LeBron is easily the best player of my generation (same age), probably a top five talent all time and already easily top ten. Which Wade isn't. Though he is one of the five best SGs ever and a top 25 player of all time.

If he won an MVP, a Chip, and Finals MVP all in the same year ... Bringing his totals to

4x Rings
MVP
2x Finals MVPs

Well, considering their peak is roughly equal, there wouldn't be all that much separation from Kobe resume wise apart from a longer prime from Bryant and an additional side kick ring courtesy of 2000 peak Shaq.

So OP thread backfire if this did happen. And even then LeBron still has a better resume than both Kobe and Wade.



and as ive stated before in this thread

even if he had 5 let alone 4 theres the lockout title holding him back

so even in a perfect world hes got 3.5 or 4.5 with 1-2 more titles


and even if you counted all 5 as full titles with 2 finals mvps and 1 season mvp.... he'd still be losing to kobe by being short 9 first team all nbas and 9 first team all defenses



so nah.. i aint worried..

lebron fans on the other hand

:lol

Bankaii
09-01-2015, 01:00 AM
It shows that Wade stepped in multiple Games, something Bron didn't do.



Not Game 1. Wade was better that game.



:oldlol: Keep avoiding the 4th Quarter and his Defense.



So Wade wasn't the best player in Game 4? :roll:



No it was Game 4.



Excuses? Bron went ghost in the 4th Quarter with shit defense and you constantly avoid this.



http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6013055&postcount=19

:sleeping



So now your Defense is judged on All-D Teams. Great to know Kobe is up there with Pippen, Duncan, Jordan, Hakeem, Garnett, and Payton :applause:



When did I say this? Keep putting words in my mouth :applause:



A1 Deflection :applause: Also, considering you Bron stans have been getting your shit pushed in by Kobe Stans around here lately, I wouldn't be talking :oldlol:
None of your arguments have any base to them. You use no support, facts, or stats just spew bullshit.

Yes Lebron was the best player in game 1, but no matter what stats are used, you're just gonna say the opposite, so whatever.

And you keep acting as if Wade was prime Pippen on D, he was solid, but nothing special. Since 2011 he's been good at best. And after 13 he was just shit on defense.

And my goodness I already said Lebron choked. And already stated games where he was a solid enough 2nd option for the Heat to win. If Wade could lead a team without the refs the Heat could've won.

The best part is that I haven't even had to use the playoffs, such as the Bulls series where Wade shat the bed a few times.

But keep on falsely accusing me of being a Stan and using your smileys. I'm going to bed bud.

pauk
09-01-2015, 01:28 AM
With that logic Kobe:

0.5 - 1.5 nba titles
0.5 - 1.5 fmvps
0.0 - 0.5 mvps (many say CP3 was robbed)

I see now why you ruled him out of this conversation?

stalkerforlife
09-01-2015, 01:30 AM
My boy kenneth got these JaBrani's shook.

Easily flustered just like their hero.

Smoke117
09-01-2015, 01:37 AM
I said it just a short month ago...but I guess I have to reiterate it again...isn't it time that Kenneth got banned again by now? This douche literally got banned last year and than at the beginning of the season was saying blah blah how he found a new forum and wasn't going to post that much...and here we are now. He's still making the same shit post he made when I made my account 4 years ago. Jesus christ...****ing clown.

Naero
09-01-2015, 01:54 AM
None of your arguments have any base to them. You use no support, facts, or stats just spew bullshit.

Yes Lebron was the best player in game 1, but no matter what stats are used, you're just gonna say the opposite, so whatever.

And you keep acting as if Wade was prime Pippen on D, he was solid, but nothing special. Since 2011 he's been good at best. And after 13 he was just shit on defense.

And my goodness I already said Lebron choked. And already stated games where he was a solid enough 2nd option for the Heat to win. If Wade could lead a team without the refs the Heat could've won.

The best part is that I haven't even had to use the playoffs, such as the Bulls series where Wade shat the bed a few times.

But keep on falsely accusing me of being a Stan and using your smileys. I'm going to bed bud.

I'm no Wade stan, and I'll go on record to say that there's no conceivable way Dwyane Wade will eclipse LeBron, but it is a rather absolutistic generality to say that Wade is incapable of leading a team to a championship "without referee support."

2011 NBA Finals stats: 26.5 PPG on 54.6%; 7 RPG; 5.2 APG. It's also worth noting that his stats started to skew downwards due to being hobbled after his Game 5 injury.

There've been much worse individual finals stats by team-leaders of championship teams, so any facts would lend into the notion that Dwyane Wade was more than capable of leading a team to a championship; it's just that the totality of the team's contributions weren't enough to get over the hump, but that finals loss shouldn't leverage that strongly against Dwyane Wade's supposed inability to lead a championship team when the Heat were two close-fought games away from winning it all!

Moreover, as you acknowledged, LeBron choked; but you are acting as if LeBron had to play up to his leadership stature to win when a modicum more of contributions wouldn't been enough from LeBron

stalkerforlife
09-01-2015, 01:56 AM
I said it just a short month ago...but I guess I have to reiterate it again...isn't it time that Kenneth got banned again by now? This douche literally got banned last year and than at the beginning of the season was saying blah blah how he found a new forum and wasn't going to post that much...and here we are now. He's still making the same shit post he made when I made my account 4 years ago. Jesus christ...****ing clown.

You're a bitch. I would flatten you if we ever ended up in the same jail. You're the guy that tells the CO about guys taking extra food off the food cart when no one is looking.

Stay free, bro. You will be killed with that weak ass attitude in prison.

Asukal
09-01-2015, 01:58 AM
Dwade is better. 3>2. :rolleyes:

kennethgriffin
09-01-2015, 02:00 AM
Dwade is better. 3>2. :rolleyes:


nope.. wade needs atleast 1 season mvp and 1 more fmvp

Asukal
09-01-2015, 02:42 AM
nope.. wade needs atleast 1 season mvp and 1 more fmvp

Wade had that on lock back in 2011 until lebaldo sabotaged his chances. :oldlol:

Lebron23
09-01-2015, 03:00 AM
LeBron. Wade is done being an elite player unless he pulls a Tim Duncan, and wins an NBA title as a role player.

robby712
09-01-2015, 04:29 AM
Ok, so I guess this is my first post here:cheers:
I've been reading the forum for about a year now, so I expect to be trolled as I am new. I can say that I am a Heat fan since 2004, so as you would expect my favorite player is D Wade. So after watching him and Lebron all those years I believe that only James haters can say that Wade will rank higher than James. His overall stats, his longevity and the fact that he is a freak of nature alongside his MVP's and FVMP's matter too much.
Now I'm gonna defend my boy Wade :applause: If Wade's healthy for all of his career, it's a different conversation. He wins another title potentially in 2005, and then who knows? Let's say we get 2009 Wade from 2007-2012/13. Maybe Pat brings him more talent after Shaq leaves. If Wade isn't injured and KG comes to Miami instead of Boston, they could have won more titles together that the Celtics did. And also every decent poster would agree with me when I say that Wade has better bball skils than James. Better midrange, quickness, first step, and >>>>> footwork. I haven't seen a player besides Jordan that could weave through 3 or 4 defenders and then explode at the rim like prime Wade was.

KG215
09-01-2015, 07:52 AM
kobe matched his 5 titles with 2 of them being with a sh*t supporting cast compared to magics teams

And if it had been necessary for Kobe to have Magic's supporting cast 20-25 years later in a completely different era, then you might be on to something. Magic needed that level of a supporting cast to win because the other contenders in the 1980s had that level of a supporting cast. Kobe's "shit" supporting cast in 2009 and 2010 was among the best, if not the best, in the NBA.

It's amazing how you continue to push this bullshit rhetoric that Kobe winning two titles with "top 90 all-time Pau Gasol" somehow gives him a leg up over other all-time greats. I mean how in the hell have you not figured out yet that Pau was arguably the best #2 on a contender in 2009 and 2010 and the rest of Kobe's supporting cast was at least somewhat on par with other contenders in 2009 and 2010?

Kobe isn't winning rings with his 2009 and 2010 supporting cast in Magic's era and Magic wouldn't be winning titles in his era with Kobe's 2009 and 2010 supporting cast either. The other contenders were too loaded in the '80s.

KG215
09-01-2015, 08:08 AM
26/10/4 on 30%=Epic

And I guess missing Bosh for half the playoffs wasn't facing any adversity at all
Funny thing is, that's a considerably worse overall statline than what LeBron put up on a regular basis in the Finals this year which has led to Griff continually shitting on LeBron for his 2015 Finals performance. Yet, when it comes to Kobe a 26-10-4 on 8/27 shooting statline is epic.

aj1987
09-01-2015, 08:19 AM
what about in 2013? *crickets*


lol @ this guy always nipping at my heels. quit following me around, sanjay.
What about '13? Wade doesn't shot up in games 4 and 7, LeBron would be 0-3 against the Spurs.

Oh wait, you're banned. Probably for being a complete and utter idiot. :oldlol:


In 2013, Game 2: Wade is shit, Heat still win in blowout.
Game 4: Wade shows up.
Game 6: Wade is shit, Heat win.
Game 7: Wade does good, score 4 points in the 4th.
Still more games than LeBron showed up in '11.


And in the 2011 close out game Wade was shit, and only scored 4 points in the 4th, Lebron did decent.
Lol! 21/4/6 with 6 TOV's is decent? Dude also had a crucial turnover with 5 minutes left in the game. 4 rebounds for a 6'8" athletic monster. :oldlol:

BTW, you might've not watched the series or just erased it from your memory (because your idol choked HARD), but Wade got injured by Cardinal and was playing with a bruised hip.


And I'm not a Bron stan dumbass. You just can't accept that without him your name would be Wade's Ring*.
And L O freaking L and Wade playing good defense, if any defense, past 2011.
Without Wade, LeBron would be ringless. Wade would at least have a ring and FMVP without LeBron.

:facepalm Wade was arguably better on defense in '12, than he was in '11. Also, did you skip the entire '13 RS? Dude was really good on defense. Wade's defense in the 4th Q's won Miami a couple of a game during the streak.

robby712
09-01-2015, 08:59 AM
That stretch during the streak they were playing incredible as a 1-2 punch. They were unstoppable on the fastbreak:applause:

Bankaii
09-01-2015, 10:29 AM
What about '13? Wade doesn't shot up in games 4 and 7, LeBron would be 0-3 against the Spurs.

Oh wait, you're banned. Probably for being a complete and utter idiot. :oldlol:


Still more games than LeBron showed up in '11.


Lol! 21/4/6 with 6 TOV's is decent? Dude also had a crucial turnover with 5 minutes left in the game. 4 rebounds for a 6'8" athletic monster. :oldlol:

BTW, you might've not watched the series or just erased it from your memory (because your idol choked HARD), but Wade got injured by Cardinal and was playing with a bruised hip.


Without Wade, LeBron would be ringless. Wade would at least have a ring and FMVP without LeBron.

:facepalm Wade was arguably better on defense in '12, than he was in '11. Also, did you skip the entire '13 RS? Dude was really good on defense. Wade's defense in the 4th Q's won Miami a couple of a game during the streak.
Where did I say Wade didn't have his moments in 2013. I said he showed up for a couple games.

And 2>2? Lebron showed up in Games 1 and 2(except 4th). And aside from the 4 quarter in Game 5 he did decent.

Wade average 19/5/4 for the entire 2013 finals, is that not decent?
And if you're bringing up rebounds for Bron, why not assists for Wade? His usage rate was high as hell yet a choking Bron still aver hard more assists than a gaurd.

And if you think Wade's defense was anywhere near Lebron's post 2011, then lol. He had key moments, but overall his defense was nothing spectacular.

And I'm quite aware of Wade's ring. He and refs balled hard in 2006. But that argument is dumb. Lebron was the clear leader the 2 times they won.

And is it just common around here to throw around insults anytime someone offends your favorite player. I'm simply challenging what another poster said, I already said Lebron choked hard. Quit being so insecure.

HurricaneKid
09-01-2015, 10:38 AM
What about '13? Wade doesn't shot up in games 4 and 7, LeBron would be 0-3 against the Spurs.


Whoa. Wade was so bad in the Finals mainstream media was saying he shouldn't be starting. In a Finals they WON, the Heat were -54 when Wade was in the game. LeBron wouldn't have won without Wade? He won IN SPITE OF Wade in 2013.

Bankaii
09-01-2015, 10:38 AM
[QUOTE=Naero]I'm no Wade stan, and I'll go on record to say that there's no conceivable way Dwyane Wade will eclipse LeBron, but it is a rather absolutistic generality to say that Wade is incapable of leading a team to a championship "without referee support."

2011 NBA Finals stats: 26.5 PPG on 54.6%; 7 RPG; 5.2 APG. It's also worth noting that his stats started to skew downwards due to being hobbled after his Game 5 injury.

There've been much worse individual finals stats by team-leaders of championship teams, so any facts would lend into the notion that Dwyane Wade was more than capable of leading a team to a championship; it's just that the totality of the team's contributions weren't enough to get over the hump, but that finals loss shouldn't leverage that strongly against Dwyane Wade's supposed inability to lead a championship team when the Heat were two close-fought games away from winning it all!

Moreover, as you acknowledged, LeBron choked; but you are acting as if LeBron had to play up to his leadership stature to win when a modicum more of contributions wouldn't been enough from LeBron

aj1987
09-01-2015, 03:45 PM
Where did I say Wade didn't have his moments in 2013. I said he showed up for a couple games.
And this literally shows than you did NOT watch the games in '13. He was ass in the first 3 rounds, but Wade WAS the main factor in the championship round and the 27 game streak.


And 2>2? Lebron showed up in Games 1 and 2(except 4th). And aside from the 4 quarter in Game 5 he did decent.
:roll: :roll: :roll:

Yeah, the stats "might" say that he was a MLE roleplayer, but the guy, for a top 10 GOAT, sucked ASS.


Wade average 19/5/4 for the entire 2013 finals, is that not decent?
And if you're bringing up rebounds for Bron, why not assists for Wade? His usage rate was high as hell yet a choking Bron still aver hard more assists than a guard.
Watch the games, kid. LeBron certainly does dominate the ball. Seriously though... Watch the series.


And if you think Wade's defense was anywhere near Lebron's post 2011, then lol. He had key moments, but overall his defense was nothing spectacular.
LeBron was the best defender in '12. I'm not gonna disagree with you on that, but Wade wasn't far off. Even in '13, if you actually saw the games, you'd know that Wade was a more clutch defender.


And I'm quite aware of Wade's ring. He and refs balled hard in 2006. But that argument is dumb. Lebron was the clear leader the 2 times they won.
The greatest series in LeBron's career, he averaged only 2 fewer FT's than Wade.


And is it just common around here to throw around insults anytime someone offends your favorite player. I'm simply challenging what another poster said, I already said Lebron choked hard. Quit being so insecure.
Look up my post history, bitch.

mehyaM24
09-01-2015, 03:50 PM
And this literally shows than you did NOT watch the games in '13. He was ass in the first 3 rounds, but Wade WAS the main factor in the championship round and the 27 game streak.

are you retarded?


lmao at wade being the "main factor" during the finals.

lebron had the higher PER, outscored wade by 6 points, out rebounded and assisted wade, and played better defense.


main factor though :roll:

funnystuff
09-01-2015, 04:57 PM
What about '13? Wade doesn't shot up in games 4 and 7, LeBron would be 0-3 against the Spurs.

Oh wait, you're banned. Probably for being a complete and utter idiot. :oldlol:


Still more games than LeBron showed up in '11.


Lol! 21/4/6 with 6 TOV's is decent? Dude also had a crucial turnover with 5 minutes left in the game. 4 rebounds for a 6'8" athletic monster. :oldlol:

BTW, you might've not watched the series or just erased it from your memory (because your idol choked HARD), but Wade got injured by Cardinal and was playing with a bruised hip.


Without Wade, LeBron would be ringless. Wade would at least have a ring and FMVP without LeBron.

:facepalm Wade was arguably better on defense in '12, than he was in '11. Also, did you skip the entire '13 RS? Dude was really good on defense. Wade's defense in the 4th Q's won Miami a couple of a game during the streak.
Calm down dude. :roll: :roll:


Wade got carried, not Kobe-esque carried, but nonetheless he still got carried.

Wade had to defer in order to win in 2011-2014, remember that.

This isn't 2006 dip****.

Wade's Rings
09-01-2015, 05:37 PM
None of your arguments have any base to them. You use no support, facts, or stats just spew bullshit.

Bron averaged 3 points in the 4th Quarter of the 2011 Finals on 33% shooting. In Game 2 after Wade puts the Heat up 15, Bron holds the ball as the Heat blow the lead. Plus his defense was equally as shit: Lebron James' Mental Errors (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eL3Kz3DD1uQ)...In Game 4 he has 8 points.2 points coming off an infamous flop (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_EGAA8gXdI) and another 2 points spoon fed by Wade. He had 0 4th Quarter points with multiple turnovers in the 4th Quarter. In Game 5 after Wade puts the Heat up 4 with about 4 minutes left, Lebron holds the ball for 4 Possessions coming with 2 missed jumpshots over 38yr old Jason Kidd and 5'9 Barrea and 2 turnovers. During this time the Heat completely blow the lead and lose momentum they had gained. Did mention his Defense? Lebron's Overrated Defense 2011 Finals (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhR-CXagPZI)


Yes Lebron was the best player in game 1, but no matter what stats are used, you're just gonna say the opposite, so whatever.

Wade closed out the Game with 5pts, 2rbd, 2ast, and 1blk and the Heat went from up 5 in the middle of the 4th to blowing the game open to about 12.


And you keep acting as if Wade was prime Pippen on D, he was solid, but nothing special.

You keep putting words into my mouth :oldlol: Go quote when I said he was Prime Pippen on D. I said his Defense was good in 2012 & 2013.


Since 2011 he's been good at best. And after 13 he was just shit on defense.

He was good in 2013. In 2014 his defense wasn't great. In the 2014 ECF he played good D on George but that was really it.


And my goodness I already said Lebron choked. And already stated games where he was a solid enough 2nd option for the Heat to win. If Wade could lead a team without the refs the Heat could've won.

He disappeared in multiple Games down the stretch. He was such a great 2nd option when he hijacked the Offense and had shit Defense as we blew the Game 2 lead, right? Or when he had 8pts and 0 4th Quarter points in Game 4? Must've been Game 5 when he made the Heat lose their momentum after Wade put us up 4 in the 4th Quarter, right?

You bring up Free Throws but ignore the post I linked that debunks your stupid Free Throw theory another Great Deflection :applause:


The best part is that I haven't even had to use the playoffs, such as the Bulls series where Wade shat the bed a few times.

Wade played Good in Game 2 Offensively with 24 points. In terms of closing: He had 5 straight points in the 4th Quarter of Game 3 to give the Heat separation, he had 6pts & 3blks in the OT of Game 4, He had 10 Points in the 4th Quarter of Game 5 including a 4 Point Play to cut the Lead from 7 to 3. Wade showed up when it mattered that series.

LeBron closing out: In Game 2 he hijacks the Offense after Wade puts the Heat up 15 and the Heat blow the lead. In Game 4 with a chance to go up 3-1 LeBron had 8 Points.. 2 Points coming off an infamous flop and another 2 with a spoon fed fastbreak layup from Wade. So Lebron created 4 Points for himself that Game with 0 Points in the 4th Quarter. In Game 5 after Wade gives the Heat a 99-95 Lead Lebron hijacks the Offense for 4 Possessions. In those 4 Possessions he misses 2 Jumpers over 38 Year old Jason Kidd & 5'9 Barrea and has 2 Turnovers and the Game Swings in Dallas' Favor.

Wade shat the bed huh? This doesn't even include their Defense.


But keep on falsely accusing me of being a Stan and using your smileys. I'm going to bed bud.

:oldlol: Only a Stan would say something this stupid and constantly deflect. You tried though

FLDFSU
09-01-2015, 05:44 PM
People need to stop with this BS about 2011-2014 Wade.

Wade is my favorite player behind Tim Hardaway, but Wade left a lot to be desired in all too many series and games.

And for the last time, the Heat would be sitting at home against Dallas in 2011 if the Heat did not have Lebron. Lebron led our team in every major statistically category in the ECF in 2011 while Wade was played as bad as Lebron did in the Finals.

And even though Lebron failed to carry his weight in the Finals, he still managed to lead us in things like assists, minutes, second in rebounds, etc. which is more than can be said for Wade in Chicago.

Heat fans that hate on Lebron are really the bottom of the barrel.

How did we do this year without him but with Wade and Spo?

Wade's Rings
09-01-2015, 06:12 PM
People need to stop with this BS about 2011-2014 Wade.

Wade is my favorite player behind Tim Hardaway, but Wade left a lot to be desired in all too many series and games.

:roll:


And for the last time, the Heat would be sitting at home against Dallas in 2011 if the Heat did not have Lebron. Lebron led our team in every major statistically category in the ECF in 2011 while Wade was played as bad as Lebron did in the Finals.And even though Lebron failed to carry his weight in the Finals, he still managed to lead us in things like assists, minutes, second in rebounds, etc. which is more than can be said for Wade in Chicago.

Everytime you say this it gets proven wrong and you still continue to post it: http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11613954&postcount=53
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=384253&page=7
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=384253&page=8



How did we do this year without him but with Wade and Spo?

2015 Wade isn't 2011-2013 Wade.

PJR
09-01-2015, 06:24 PM
Whoa. Wade was so bad in the Finals mainstream media was saying he shouldn't be starting. In a Finals they WON, the Heat were -54 when Wade was in the game. LeBron wouldn't have won without Wade? He won IN SPITE OF Wade in 2013.

And you're an idiot, if you truly believe this.

PJR
09-01-2015, 06:27 PM
Heat fans that hate on Lebron are really the bottom of the barrel.


Na. Lebron Stans, who masqueraded themselves as Heat fans post July 2010, who try to marginalize Dwyane Wade, and other members of the Heat, at every angle are the TRUE pieces of shit. :oldlol:

Thank god you clowns no longer root for the Heat. That includes you.

mehyaM24
09-01-2015, 07:00 PM
Heat fans that hate on Lebron are really the bottom of the barrel.

How did we do this year without him but with Wade and Spo?


you should see some of threads posted earlier.


all these disgusting wade fans actually think he was one of the best players in the league during the 2013 playoffs. don't believe me? checkout what they said regarding his finals.


there's a few wade fans on here that actually think he was the BEST player in THAT finals - this despite having 6 less points averaged, way less boards, way less assists, worse defense and advanced metrics across the board.

they 'conveniently' forget lebron had arguably the greatest game 7 in history.

there is no way these clowns are heat fans, or actually watched at that time - and if they did, they've completely deluded themselves into thinking wade was some showstopper & "goat sidekick".


these idiots are so desperate to give wade recognition, like a bum looking for scraps.


and for the people mentioning the 2011 finals, how about the 2014 finals? if wade plays just at sidekick level, the spurs might not run a train on the team outside of lebron.

GrapeApe
09-01-2015, 07:37 PM
you should see some of threads posted earlier.


all these disgusting wade fans actually think he was one of the best players in the league during the 2013 playoffs. don't believe me? checkout what they said regarding his finals.


there's a few wade fans on here that actually think he was the BEST player in THAT finals - this despite having 6 less points averaged, way less boards, way less assists, worse defense and advanced metrics across the board.

they 'conveniently' forget lebron had arguably the greatest game 7 in history.

there is no way these clowns are heat fans, or actually watched at that time - and if they did, they've completely deluded themselves into thinking wade was some showstopper & "goat sidekick".


these idiots are so desperate to give wade recognition, like a bum looking for scraps.


and for the people mentioning the 2011 finals, how about the 2014 finals? if wade plays just at sidekick level, the spurs might not run a train on the team outside of lebron.

Desperate? You're the one making stuff up. I don't know of one person who says Wade had a better overall 2013 finals than Lebron. Game 4 yes, but not the entire series. You also once said that the majority of Heat fans consider the 2006 title to have an asterisk, which is so absurd it's beyond comprehension. You have no credibility talking about Heat fans or any other team-first fans for that matter. Furthermore, the majority of Wade fans are actually Heat fans, whereas the majority of Lebron fans are not Cavs fans (like yourself).

mehyaM24
09-01-2015, 07:52 PM
Desperate? You're the one making stuff up. I don't know of one person who says Wade had a better overall 2013 finals than Lebron. Game 4 yes, but not the entire series. You also once said that the majority of Heat fans consider the 2006 title to have an asterisk, which is so absurd it's beyond comprehension. You have no credibility talking about Heat fans or any other team-first fans for that matter. Furthermore, the majority of Wade fans are actually Heat fans, whereas the majority of Lebron fans are not Cavs fans (like yourself).


here's another poster obsessed with my posts.


i remember this guy challenged me to "find a quote" after i told him alonzo mourning still thought kobe was better than wade, just after the 2006 finals. :oldlol:

for reference, go a page back, and look at that idiot "aj198" claiming wade was the main factor of the 2013 finals.


you will get a good laugh :oldlol:


wade fans = WOAT

most delusional fan base EVER

GrapeApe
09-01-2015, 08:12 PM
here's another poster obsessed with my posts.


i remember this guy challenged me to "find a quote" after i told him alonzo mourning still thought kobe was better than wade, just after the 2006 finals. :oldlol:

for reference, go a page back, and look at that idiot "aj198" claiming wade was the main factor of the 2013 finals.


you will get a good laugh :oldlol:


wade fans = WOAT

most delusional fan base EVER

So I asked for a quote and you provided it. And? Is that not appropriate for a somewhat controversial statement? If you asked me to provide a quote to back up something I said, I would also provide it. I don't see what's lol worthy about that.

As for aj1987's comments, I disagree that Wade was the main factor in winning the 2013 finals, and those who feel that he was are in the OVERWHELMING minority. You are making broad generalizations based on outlier opinions that most Heat / Wade fans do not hold. I still maintain that you have no credibility to question the allegiance of fans to their team. Again, Wade fans are by in large legit Heat fans. There are very very few Lebron fans that are legit Cavs fans.

mehyaM24
09-01-2015, 08:18 PM
So I asked for a quote and you provided it. And? Is that not appropriate for a somewhat controversial statement? If you asked me to provide a quote to back up something I said, I would also provide it. I don't see what's lol worthy about that.

As for aj1987's comments, I disagree that Wade was the main factor in winning the 2013 finals, and those who feel that he was are in the OVERWHELMING minority. You are making broad generalizations based on outlier opinions that most Heat / Wade fans do not hold. I still maintain that you have no credibility to question the allegiance of fans to their team. Again, Wade fans are by in large legit Heat fans. There are very very few Lebron fans that are legit Cavs fans.


fair enough.

i just think its funny you don't believe anything i post, but will take your fellow heat & wade fans words as gospel.


that guy isn't the only poster who feels that way either BTW


checkout other wade fans in previous threads literally saying "good riddance" and that "he was a choker anyway" just after lebron left for cleveland again.


they're ungrateful and spiteful. kinda like the gm of their favorite players team.


and you say you disagree, but just leave it at that. why don't you educate that moron and tell him WHY that is such an absurd statement.


:confusedshrug:

GrapeApe
09-01-2015, 08:38 PM
fair enough.

i just think its funny you don't believe anything i post, but will take your fellow heat & wade fans words as gospel.


that guy isn't the only poster who feels that way either BTW


checkout other wade fans in previous threads literally saying "good riddance" and that "he was a choker anyway" just after lebron left for cleveland again.


they're ungrateful and spiteful. kinda like the gm of their favorite players team.


and you say you disagree, but just leave it at that. why don't you educate that moron and tell him WHY that is such an absurd statement.


:confusedshrug:

Hey, I'm a bit biased, what can I say? It's natural to defend your team and your team's players, as well as side with fellow fans. That being said, I try my best to maintain a reasonable level of objectivity. There have been several occasions where I have defended Lebron or even criticized Wade to fellow Heat fans. My main gripe with Lebron fans is they often make it hard for me to remain objective. I have stated many times that I respect and appreciate what Lebron did in Miami. Most real Heat fans do. I'll leave it at that.

:cheers:

tmacattack33
09-01-2015, 08:55 PM
... if the Heat win a title this year with Wade as FMVP..... ( EDIT* AND wade somehow claims regular season MVP )


3.5 nba titles
2 fmvps
1 season mvp

losing 2 times in the nba finals


vs

1.5 nba titles
1.5 fmvps
4 mvps

losing 4 times in the nba finals



http://www.basket4us.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/lebronjames1.jpg

If Wade somehow turns back into 2009 Wade and wins the Finals next year, he will be above Kobe and behind Lebron in the all-time list.

Thread backfire. :oldlol:

SouBeachTalents
09-01-2015, 09:10 PM
In regards to Wade 2011-2014

2011: He was basically LeBron's equal, it was a 1A/1B situation
2012: He was a very good second option, helped pick up the slack when Bosh went out in the playoffs
2013: He was a very good second option in the regular season, was terrible during the first 3 rounds of the playoffs, then had a few big games in the Finals
2014: Missed a ton of games in the regular season, was decent during the first 3 rounds, then was absolute garbage in the Finals

ShawkFactory
09-01-2015, 10:28 PM
People need to stop with this BS about 2011-2014 Wade.

Wade is my favorite player behind Tim Hardaway, but Wade left a lot to be desired in all too many series and games.

And for the last time, the Heat would be sitting at home against Dallas in 2011 if the Heat did not have Lebron. Lebron led our team in every major statistically category in the ECF in 2011 while Wade was played as bad as Lebron did in the Finals.

And even though Lebron failed to carry his weight in the Finals, he still managed to lead us in things like assists, minutes, second in rebounds, etc. which is more than can be said for Wade in Chicago.

Heat fans that hate on Lebron are really the bottom of the barrel.

How did we do this year without him but with Wade and Spo?
"Heat" fans that hate on Wade are even farther down at the bottom of the barrel

kennethgriffin
09-01-2015, 10:39 PM
If Wade somehow turns back into 2009 Wade and wins the Finals next year, he will be above Kobe and behind Lebron in the all-time list.

Thread backfire. :oldlol:


how is

5 > 3.5 > 1.5


a thread backfire

even with a full title in 2012 he has 4 with 2 fmvps

:biggums:

lebron fans losing their minds

kuniva_dAMiGhTy
09-01-2015, 11:03 PM
how is

5 > 3.5 > 1.5


a thread backfire

even with a full title in 2012 he has 4 with 2 fmvps

:biggums:

lebron fans losing their minds

Because you're the only tool seriously counting asterisks.

Keep in mind, the year you give LeBron an asterisk, is the year he played more minutes than 2000 Kobe, outplayed 2000 Kobe significantly (one is a superstar and the other a sidekick :oldlol:), and wasn't outscored by 4 or 5 different players in a series like Kobe was in the 2000 finals.

kennethgriffin
09-02-2015, 12:04 AM
Because you're the only tool seriously counting asterisks.

Keep in mind, the year you give LeBron an asterisk, is the year he played more minutes than 2000 Kobe, outplayed 2000 Kobe significantly (one is a superstar and the other a sidekick :oldlol:), and wasn't outscored by 4 or 5 different players in a series like Kobe was in the 2000 finals.

http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2012/story/_/id/7894556/2012-nba-playoffs-lebron-james-says-there-asterisk-eventual-champion


its literally nation wide

:biggums:

http://onlyagame.wbur.org/2012/05/26/short-seasons

http://www.nba.com/2011/news/features/shaun_powell/09/16/lockout-spurs-1999-nba-title/index.html

LAZERUSS
09-02-2015, 12:22 AM
In regards to Wade 2011-2014

2011: He was basically LeBron's equal, it was a 1A/1B situation
2012: He was a very good second option, helped pick up the slack when Bosh went out in the playoffs
2013: He was a very good second option in the regular season, was terrible during the first 3 rounds of the playoffs, then had a few big games in the Finals
2014: Missed a ton of games in the regular season, was decent during the first 3 rounds, then was absolute garbage in the Finals

THIS.

:applause: :applause: :applause:

aj1987
09-02-2015, 09:02 AM
are you retarded?


lmao at wade being the "main factor" during the finals.

lebron had the higher PER, outscored wade by 6 points, out rebounded and assisted wade, and played better defense.


main factor though :roll:
Outside LeBron, you ****ing idiot. I never said Wade was better than LeBron, but without Wade, Miami don't win that series. It's as simple as that. LeBron turds are the worst. :facepalm

EDIT: After re-reading my earlier post, I should've worded it differently. Without Wade, LeBron and the Heat do not go on a 27 game win streak and certainly do not win 2 rings.


Wade had to defer in order to win in 2011-2014, remember that.

This isn't 2006 dip****.
:biggums:

Did you even watch basketball in '11? Again, It's not like LeBron was winning without Wade in '12 and '13. Idiot.

Also, are you guys seriously defending the '11 Finals by bringing up the Wade's '13 Finals? LeBron in his peak and and injured out of prime Wade... :facepalm


Whoa. Wade was so bad in the Finals mainstream media was saying he shouldn't be starting. In a Finals they WON, the Heat were -54 when Wade was in the game. LeBron wouldn't have won without Wade? He won IN SPITE OF Wade in 2013.

Because ESPN is filled with idiots? They wanted Miami to start Miller/Allen. Two guy who literally can't play defense. One dude who can't even run to the other side of the court. That would've been terrific. Miami would've lost in 6.

I've defended LeBron's '13 Finals numerous times. I know the OP is an idiot and that Wade will NEVER surpass LeBron, but give the guy his due.

FLDFSU
09-02-2015, 05:30 PM
you should see some of threads posted earlier.


all these disgusting wade fans actually think he was one of the best players in the league during the 2013 playoffs. don't believe me? checkout what they said regarding his finals.


there's a few wade fans on here that actually think he was the BEST player in THAT finals - this despite having 6 less points averaged, way less boards, way less assists, worse defense and advanced metrics across the board.

they 'conveniently' forget lebron had arguably the greatest game 7 in history.

there is no way these clowns are heat fans, or actually watched at that time - and if they did, they've completely deluded themselves into thinking wade was some showstopper & "goat sidekick".


these idiots are so desperate to give wade recognition, like a bum looking for scraps.


and for the people mentioning the 2011 finals, how about the 2014 finals? if wade plays just at sidekick level, the spurs might not run a train on the team outside of lebron.

I am not even sure these are really Wade fans. Probably just normal Lebron haters.

These same idiots spent the better part of four years screaming about how the Heat were stacked and how Wade is a super, super, super star...yet a year later are completely silent when said super, super, super star Wade fails to make the playoffs in a conference these idiots claim is the weakest of all time.

They don't believe 1% of the BS they post on here.

FLDFSU
09-02-2015, 05:35 PM
In regards to Wade 2011-2014

2011: He was basically LeBron's equal, it was a 1A/1B situation
2012: He was a very good second option, helped pick up the slack when Bosh went out in the playoffs
2013: He was a very good second option in the regular season, was terrible during the first 3 rounds of the playoffs, then had a few big games in the Finals
2014: Missed a ton of games in the regular season, was decent during the first 3 rounds, then was absolute garbage in the Finals

Basically.