Are players today just bigger faster stronger or bigger fast stronger better?

[Hit_Em]

??

[ISHGoat]

TOP END ATHLETICISM has not changed much. The fastest sprinters decades ago are comparable to the fastest sprinters now, with the small differences easily accountable by equipment and track conditions. Wilt would still be a beast today, and I truly believe he may have had a vert in the upper 30s/approaching 40.

However, modern technology and sports science knowledge has enabled a far greater number of athletes to reach or come very close to their athletic ceiling. The result is that as a whole, the basketball playing population, which has increased in orders of magnitude from the russell/wilt era, has noticeably increased in athleticism.

The result is that in the 60s, if you had a 40 inch vert, you would be considered a god. Nowadays, every fuking black kid that plays basketball and does pushups sports a 40 inch vert. However, we had not seen a true 50 inch vert in the 60s, and we still have not seen a 50 inch vert. The ceiling of human athleticism has not budged, but more people are reaching it.

[f0und]

compared to the 80s/90s, the nba overall today is a little more athletic but their peak athletes arent much more athletic. i think the bigger gap is between how the game is played. today's game seems to lack a level of fundamentals and team cohesion that the game had a few decades ago.

so while i think todays athletes a bit better, i think they're worse basketball players.

[NBAplayoffs2001]

Having watched a lot of NBA Hardwood Classics of 80s/90s games this summer, yes they are. Some of those role players would barely get by in today's league.

[robby712]

Yes but also nowadays players are too focused on athleticism and dunking. This and the fact that they spend less time in college makes them lack fundamentals. Footwork, post moves, defense positioning, shooting and free throws. It's more fun to throw dunks in practice than making your FT% grow by even 5%. And fundamentals > athleticism. That's way Duncan can still play at a high level although he can barely ****ing run. Would you not take 3 inches off Deandre Jordan's vertical if that makes him a 70% free throw shooter?

[bond10]

It's balanced out.

pre 2000s - naturally athletic freaks (Shaq, Ewing, Hakeem, MJ, many centers)
post 2000s - manufactured athleticism (westbrook, rose, a lot of PGs)

[90sgoat]

Whatever minimal changes are due to steroid and hgh use.

The real change in the athleticism of the NBA was from the early 1980s forward.

The rookies back then guys like Hakeem, MJ, Clyde, Barkley, Malone, Wilkins, DRob, Rodman, Isaiah, etc etc.

The NBA was fully 'modern' once the last of the 70s players retired in the late 80s.

You also see this in how players in the 90s all shoot the same way, while in the 80s and 70s everyone seemed to have their own technique.

[raprap]

compared to the 80s/90s, the nba overall today is a little more athletic but their peak athletes arent much more athletic. i think the bigger gap is between how the game is played. today's game seems to lack a level of fundamentals and team cohesion that the game had a few decades ago.

so while i think todays athletes a bit better, i think they're worse basketball players.
Team basketball has never been better imo.

Fundamentals=/= effectiveness.

[BoutPractice]

90sgoat > Modern players all shoot the same way? Are you saying Dirk Nowitzki, Ray Allen, Kobe Bryant, Shawn Marion, Carlos Boozer, Rashard Lewis, Tony Parker, Michael Kidd Gilchrist have similar shooting forms?

There's a reason why in NBA2K you get to choose between dozens of shooting forms. Or why I or any other basketball fanatic can do an imitation of a certain NBA player shooting and people will recognize it. If I do LeBron shooting, then Durant, no one is going to confuse them.

But more importantly… unorthodox technique doesn't mean you'll be ineffective (well, for MKG, I'm pretty sure it does :lol). Among the players I mentioned, Shawn Marion used to shoot near 40%. So did Rashard Lewis. In fact it's not at all uncommon for truly great shooters to have a unique form - Peja Stojakovic and Larry Bird come to mind.

[HighFlyer23]

Haven't seen any spectacular or unique athletes in the last few draft classes

[rmt]

DRob? Shaq? Wilt?

The increase in medical knowledge, technology, health, recovery/training methods, diet, and nutrition have all helped current athletes to maximize their potential and last longer. Doesn't mean that they are necessarily better than previous players. They are better THEM. If previous players had access to what current players do, they would have had longer careers.

[warriorfan]

op at the club

http://i.imgur.com/zt8JHI8.gif

[20Four]

op at the club

http://i.imgur.com/zt8JHI8.gif
http://i.imgur.com/wOsoLPY.gif

[Lensanity]

In the 60's they played in heavy ass Converse. Imagine Wilt in 2015 Nikes. It would add like 4 inches to his vert.

[LAZERUSS]

Look at this 6-7 3/4" clod from the 60's...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7TnbhJr8iY

And to think that he ran away with rpg titles, and had seasons of 26-12.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

No way that clown could play in the current NBA.

[jstern]

The only real way to judge is genetically. Larry Bird has talked about how his game would be if he played now, different rules. And he said something about how his game would have to be more about post up, and he would be bigger, all due to specific rules. I forgot exactly what, but the point is that the environment/rules dictate everything. Back then you had to run more, all that affects what the most suitable body would be.

So you can't fault an 80s player for being literally 10 pounds lighter on average than today's players. If you sent one of today's player back then, then they would also have to change their game.

[yobore]

They are better athletes.

The talent pool basketball has to draw from has grown hundredfold from the 1960's, which were made up of kids growing up in the 40's and 50's and when basketball was nothing like today, segregation still existed, noone played outside the USA, and there weren't billions and billions of dollars being passed around to play the game well. If you were a guaranteed basketball superstar in the 1950's you might still take a decent white-collared job over that.

Typically if you're drawing from the best of tens of millions, the best are going to line up favorably vs the best of hundreds of thousands, just like the best player from a 2000-person school is usually better than the best of a 200-person school. Especially when the hundreds of thousands don't know that basketball can be an insanely profitable and respected career.

[LAZERUSS]

They are better athletes.

The talent pool basketball has to draw from has grown hundredfold from the 1960's, which were made up of kids growing up in the 40's and 50's and when basketball was nothing like today, segregation still existed, noone played outside the USA, and there weren't billions and billions of dollars being passed around to play the game well. If you were a guaranteed basketball superstar in the 1950's you might still take a decent white-collared job over that.

Typically if you're drawing from the best of tens of millions, the best are going to line up favorably vs the best of hundreds of thousands, just like the best player from a 2000-person school is usually better than the best of a 200-person school. Especially when the hundreds of thousands don't know that basketball can be an insanely profitable and respected career.

Damn...who would have known that the world's population today is 300 billion?

[90sgoat]

90sgoat > Modern players all shoot the same way? Are you saying Dirk Nowitzki, Ray Allen, Kobe Bryant, Shawn Marion, Carlos Boozer, Rashard Lewis, Tony Parker, Michael Kidd Gilchrist have similar shooting forms? .

Compared to the 70s and before, shooting form is remarkably consistent. Everyone shooting like Ray Allen/MJ/Kobe. Watch an early 80s game, there are some wacky shooting techniques, I am not talking about smaller differences, everyone seems to have their own technique.

[Pointguard]

They are better athletes.

The talent pool basketball has to draw from has grown hundredfold from the 1960's, which were made up of kids growing up in the 40's and 50's and when basketball was nothing like today, segregation still existed, noone played outside the USA, and there weren't billions and billions of dollars being passed around to play the game well. If you were a guaranteed basketball superstar in the 1950's you might still take a decent white-collared job over that.

Typically if you're drawing from the best of tens of millions, the best are going to line up favorably vs the best of hundreds of thousands, just like the best player from a 2000-person school is usually better than the best of a 200-person school. Especially when the hundreds of thousands don't know that basketball can be an insanely profitable and respected career.

In theory there should be more versatile players if the pool is bigger. But what, there are only like three post up players in the league last year? While Dirk looks unique, McAdoo did what he did with more accuracy, productivity along with a better handle. And there is also a lack of players that have a very good middle game. So what is this larger pool doing? More long range shooters, which is more likely the product of access to gyms/rims 24/7.

I understand the theory, but just saying it without its application is useless. So what is this bigger pool doing or what is its manifestation?

[Jailblazers7]

In the 60's they played in heavy ass Converse. Imagine Wilt in 2015 Nikes. It would add like 4 inches to his vert.

I think the evolution is shoes definitely plays a role in how the game is able to be played faster. The cushioning, support, grip, etc allow athletes to make cuts and play at full speed in a way that you definitely couldn't do in Chucks. It's just another one of those things that has allowed players to max out their athleticism on the court.

[sd3035]

Bigger, faster, stronger, far more intelligent. It's not just players but Message board posters as well

People like Lozerus are the undersized remedial wimps of the forum world

[90sgoat]

I think the evolution is shoes definitely plays a role in how the game is able to be played faster. The cushioning, support, grip, etc allow athletes to make cuts and play at full speed in a way that you definitely couldn't do in Chucks. It's just another one of those things that has allowed players to max out their athleticism on the court.

Doesn't mean shit, have you seen Jordan play in the 80s?

If anything the low cut shoes contribute to injuries. Who in their right mind plays basketball in low cut shoes? That's the dumbest thing, but Nike and these other companies know that they can sell more street shoes if low cut because it goes better with pants.