Worst supporting cast of all time: 2009 Los Angeles Lakers vs 1994 Houston Rockets

[kennethgriffin]

1994 rockets vs 2009 lakers:

C - Hakeem > C - Gasol
PF - Thorpe > PF Odom ( thorpe 20ppg peeks, more consistent, longer career )
SF - Horry > Ariza ( young horry more clutch, better shooter, better defender )
SG - Kenny < Kobe
PG - Maxwell > Fisher

6th man - Cassell > Bynum (cassell 16/7 per36m...... drew 6ppg? )
Ellie > Brown
herrera > luke
brooks > farmar
Bullard > sasha
jent > mbenga
cureton > morrison



well atleast the lakers got one out of 12




http://www.howmanyarethere.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/1994-ROCKETS-FINALS.jpg

http://justamemo.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/lakers-2009-champs.jpg

[ArbitraryWater]

not just is this wrong, but now do competition please :D

[sdot_thadon]

Nah:facepalm

[kennethgriffin]

not just is this wrong, but now do competition please :D

kobe won while shaq/duncan/lebron were all in the league trying to win a title..and they were all on great teams... if they all lost to teams kobe beat.. then whats the big deal

hakeem won during a year jordan skipped the entire thing


its not just about who you beat. but who could beat you

[ArbitraryWater]

kobe won while shaq/duncan/lebron were all in the league trying to win a title..and they were all on great teams... if they all lost to teams kobe beat.. then whats the big deal

hakeem won during a year jordan skipped the entire thing


its not just about who you beat. but who could beat you

Your entire logic is so ****ed.. its not even worth trying

[sdot_thadon]

Pau is a future Hof'er kenneth.
/thread

[kennethgriffin]

Pau is a future Hof'er kenneth.
/thread


every man, woman, child and their dog is an nba hall of famer doe


thats not saying much

guys ranked barely in the top 200 all time are in the hall

:oldlol:

this isnt cooperstown

[sdot_thadon]

every man, woman, child and their dog is an nba hall of famer doe


thats not saying much

guys ranked barely in the top 200 all time are in the hall

:oldlol:

this isnt cooperstown
Honestly if the pau trade doesn't happen they don't win any rings.

[Ass Dan]

Those Houston teams were really good. But the Lakers were also a very solid team, well constructed, beat a couple of great teams.

Is this a betafan Kobe vs Hakeem comparison? The two aren't really comparable, and all time Kobe likely ranks higher, as early in his career, Hakeem (when he was Akeem) was seen as a quitter and someone who would sell out his teammates.

[kennethgriffin]

Honestly if the pau trade doesn't happen they don't win any rings.

ok.. and i admit thats true. kobe needed a good 2nd option

but lets not act like gasol isnt ranked 85th on BBR hall of fame monitor





1. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 1.0000
2. Michael Jordan* 1.0000
3. Bill Russell* 1.0000
4. Wilt Chamberlain* 1.0000
5. Kobe Bryant 1.0000
6. Tim Duncan 1.0000
7. Shaquille O'Neal 1.0000
8. John Havlicek* 1.0000
9. Oscar Robertson* 1.0000
10. Bob Cousy* 1.0000
11. Kevin Garnett 1.0000
12. Jerry West* 1.0000
13. Magic Johnson* 1.0000
14. Karl Malone* 1.0000
15. LeBron James 1.0000
16. Hakeem Olajuwon* 1.0000
17. Larry Bird* 1.0000
18. Elvin Hayes* 1.0000
19. David Robinson* 1.0000
20. Moses Malone* 1.0000
21. Dolph Schayes* 1.0000
22. Dirk Nowitzki 1.0000
23. John Stockton* 1.0000
24. Bob Pettit* 1.0000
25. Isiah Thomas* 1.0000
26. Dwyane Wade 0.9999
27. Charles Barkley* 0.9998
28. Allen Iverson 0.9998
29. Elgin Baylor* 0.9998
30. Paul Arizin* 0.9998
31. Jason Kidd 0.9997
32. Chris Paul 0.9997
33. Sam Jones* 0.9995
34. George Mikan* 0.9995
35. Gary Payton* 0.9994
36. Patrick Ewing* 0.9994
37. Julius Erving* 0.9991
38. Scottie Pippen* 0.9990
39. Ray Allen 0.9987
40. Clyde Drexler* 0.9978
41. Paul Pierce 0.9974
42. Hal Greer* 0.9974
43. Bill Sharman* 0.9970
44. Robert Parish* 0.9966
45. Rick Barry* 0.9950
46. Walt Frazier* 0.9949
47. Slater Martin* 0.9943
48. Tom Heinsohn* 0.9938
49. Neil Johnston* 0.9926
50. Dwight Howard 0.9893
51. Lenny Wilkens* 0.9880
52. Ed Macauley* 0.9873
53. Chris Bosh 0.9864
54. Kevin McHale* 0.9864
55. Dave Cowens* 0.9864
56. Bob McAdoo* 0.9863
57. Tiny Archibald* 0.9842
58. Steve Nash 0.9829
59. Kevin Durant 0.9821
60. Dominique Wilkins* 0.9814
61. George Gervin* 0.9787
62. Vern Mikkelsen* 0.9771
63. Willis Reed* 0.9768
64. Dikembe Mutombo* 0.9691
65. Jerry Lucas* 0.9608
66. Tracy McGrady 0.9555
67. Bob Lanier* 0.9494
68. Vince Carter 0.9455
69. Larry Foust 0.9420
70. Tony Parker 0.9386
71. Chet Walker* 0.9378
72. Bailey Howell* 0.9362
73. Alonzo Mourning* 0.9310
74. Alex English* 0.9235
75. Dave Bing* 0.9188
76. James Worthy* 0.9077
77. Grant Hill 0.8911
78. Adrian Dantley* 0.8862
79. Carmelo Anthony 0.8745
80. Jack Sikma 0.8698
81. Jo Jo White* 0.8692
82. Chauncey Billups 0.8440
83. Dave DeBusschere* 0.8358
84. Harry Gallatin* 0.8091
85. Pau Gasol 0.8086





paus a future hall of famer. but so are 40 other guys who've been in the nba over the last decade

[3ball]

its not just about who you beat. but who could beat you


you did the comparison wrong though - you compared hakeem to #2 option gasol, when hakeem was the #1 option like Kobe.. Hakeem wasn't part of the "supporting cast" like Gasol.

You need to redo the comparison and only compare the supporting cast... So #2 option Thorpe should be compared to #2 option Gasol.. Lakers had a better supporting cast, because Gasol is a franchise-level player, whereas Thorpe was a role player.

Here's a real comparison - 2010 vs. 1991:

Gasol > Pippen
Odom > Grant
Bynum > Cartwright
Ariza > Paxson


Or, 2010 vs. 1998:

Gasol > injured Pippen
Odom > old Rodman (he averaged 4/8 in both the 1998 Finals and entire 1997 playoffs)
Bynum > Longley
Ariza = Kukoc

[ArbitraryWater]

kennethgriffin, meet 3ball.. you guys are a perfect fit.

[kennethgriffin]

you did the comparison wrong - you compared hakeem to #2 option gasol, when hakeem was the #1 option like Kobe.. Hakeem wasn't part of the "supporting cast" like Gasol.

You need to redo the comparison and only compare the supporting cast... So #2 option Thorpe should be compared to Gasol.. Lakers had a better supporting cast, because Gasol is a franchise-level player, whereas Thorpe was a role player.

Here's a real comparison - 2010 vs. 1991:

Gasol > Pippen
Odom > Grant
Bynum > Cartwright
Ariza > Paxson


Or, 2010 vs. 1998:

Gasol > injured Pippen
Odom > old Rodman (he averaged 4/8 in 1998 Finals, and entire 1997 playoffs)
Bynum > Longley
Ariza = Kukoc





did you just put lamar odom over 96-98 rodman

:biggums:

ban this f*ggot

[DonDadda59]

I'm confused. All I've ever heard from Bean stans (and Jelly Bean himself) is how much of a soft, weak, untalented beta Dwight Howard (Fright Coward to some) is... But the guy was the best player and leader of the team that Bean and his Lakers beat in '09 to win a ring. Rashard Lewis and Hedo Turkoglu were his supporting cast.

So which is it- was 2009 some legendary accomplishment or was that 'ship just good fortune, a product of a weak league producing weak opposition where the ultimate beta basketball player could lead a rag tag group of 'others' to the championship round? :confusedshrug:

[kennethgriffin]

dennis rodman is on my all time starting 5


if i were to create a team to go into battle with... it would have to be


G - Kobe Bryant
G - Michael Jordan
F - Larry Bird
F - Dennis Rodman
C - Shaquille O'neal



no need for a traditional PG since you have 4 isolation players

no need for a 5 man offensive team. only 4 guys at most can score in an offense. a defensive/hustle/rebounder is needed more than another scorer



this is the perfect team IMO



so when a person puts crack pipe lamar no allstar games havin a** run out the nba a few years after kobe won him a ring Odumb

over dennis rodman?



i gotta say a big f*ck you to that

[Suguru101]

you did the comparison wrong though - you compared hakeem to #2 option gasol, when hakeem was the #1 option like Kobe.. Hakeem wasn't part of the "supporting cast" like Gasol.

You need to redo the comparison and only compare the supporting cast... So #2 option Thorpe should be compared to #2 option Gasol.. Lakers had a better supporting cast, because Gasol is a franchise-level player, whereas Thorpe was a role player.

Here's a real comparison - 2010 vs. 1991:

Gasol > Pippen
Odom > Grant
Bynum > Cartwright
Ariza > Paxson


Or, 2010 vs. 1998:

Gasol > injured Pippen
Odom > old Rodman (he averaged 4/8 in both the 1998 Finals and entire 1997 playoffs)
Bynum > Longley
Ariza = Kukoc

Pippen > Gasol. Just stop.
Grant > Odom.
Carwright > Injured Bynum.
Artest > Paxon.

But 1991 Jordan was so much > than 2010 Kobe that it doesn't matter.

[kennethgriffin]

I'm confused. All I've ever heard from Bean stans (and Jelly Bean himself) is how much of a soft, weak, untalented beta Dwight Howard (Fright Coward to some) is... But the guy was the best player and leader of the team that Bean and his Lakers beat in '09 to win a ring. Rashard Lewis and Hedo Turkoglu were his supporting cast.

So which is it- was 2009 some legendary accomplishment or was that 'ship just good fortune, a product of a weak league producing weak opposition where the ultimate beta basketball player could lead a rag tag group of 'others' to the championship round? :confusedshrug:

and he beat lebron/make him cry and walk off without shaking hands

what does that say about your hero


but in all seriousness ... dwight pre back injury was a beast and probably shoulda won an MVP award

[kennethgriffin]

Pippen > Gasol. Just stop.
Grant > Odom.
Carwright > Injured Bynum.
Artest > Paxon.

But 1991 Jordan was so much > than 2010 Kobe that it doesn't matter.


meh.. stats dont tell the whole story... ive seen allot of jordan and i never saw him put shows on like that 2010 WCF sh*t


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zx02W5pc7yQ

[stalkerforlife]

Kobe won back to back titles with the worst supporting cast in the history of the NBA when considering back to back titles.

Pau is the softest back to back title winner as a 2nd option of all time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=es0jt6za2Uc&feature=youtu.be

Kobe is 2nd GOAT.

[clipps]

kennethgriffin, meet 3ball.. you guys are a perfect fit.
both are f@ggots, so maybe they'll meet up some day

[DonDadda59]

and he beat lebron/make him cry and walk off without shaking hands

what does that say about your hero

My hero :roll:



but in all seriousness ... dwight pre back injury was a beast and probably shoulda won an MVP award

Of course he was a beast and MVP when he was facing Beans in the finals with Hedo backing him up... but as soon as he plays with him in LA he's the ultimate soft beta who couldn't win anything. Typical. :rolleyes:

[3ball]

Pippen > Gasol. Just stop.
Grant > Odom.
Carwright > Injured Bynum.
Artest > Paxon.

But 1991 Jordan was so much > than 2010 Kobe that it doesn't matter.


Just stop????... If you think Pippen > Gasol, then you don't know basketball.. Gasol was the best big man in the game at that time.. He was a franchise-level player that could carry a team offensively.

As for the Grant/Odom comparison - unbelievable that you could think Grant was the better player..

Grant was an 11/8 play-finisher, whereas Odom was a versatile, point forward who could do it all... Odom was a perennial underachiever, but his production was still more than Grant's and his talent was all-nba caliber... Odom's versatility gave a team far more strategic options than Grant's play-finishing ass.

[T_L_P]

Hakeem's is up there with the worst.

Kobe's is not.

[RidonKs]

I'm confused. All I've ever heard from Bean stans (and Jelly Bean himself) is how much of a soft, weak, untalented beta Dwight Howard (Fright Coward to some) is... But the guy was the best player and leader of the team that Bean and his Lakers beat in '09 to win a ring. Rashard Lewis and Hedo Turkoglu were his supporting cast.

So which is it- was 2009 some legendary accomplishment or was that 'ship just good fortune, a product of a weak league producing weak opposition where the ultimate beta basketball player could lead a rag tag group of 'others' to the championship round? :confusedshrug:
:hammerhead:

epic slam

respect the don

for he is don

[Fallen Angel]

Kobe Bryant had an All-Star teammate.
Hakeem didn't.

Kobe Bryant had an All-NBA teammate.
Hakeem didn't.

Kobe Bryant had a teammate who averaged >15 PPG.
Hakeem didn't.

Kobe Bryant's second and third best teammates were Pau Gasol and Lamar Odom.
Hakeem's were Vernon Maxwell and Otis Thorpe.

[ClipperRevival]

:facepalm

Most NBA champs have "the man", 2nd fiddle and 3rd wheel. Gasol was a great big, in his prime, in 2009 and 2010 and Odom was one of the most versatile bigs of his era. Those two alone along with Kobe made them formidable.

OP, stop trying so hard.

[Kobe_6/8]

By far the 2009 Lakers. Not even a question.

[mehyaM24]

gasol was the best big man in the league ATT


the comparison makes no sense anyway. a legit debate is between the 94 rockets and 00 lakers


shaq carried a team averaging 38 & 17 in the finals with his second best option, kobe, being outplayed by 5 different players. kobe averaged worse numbers than mo williams did for lebron circa 2009 and 2010, yet shaq, somehow, some way, supermanned that series to his first title


hakeem and 2000 shaq are the only 2 players i can think of doing that kind of heavy lifting.


shaq in 2000 was a better player though. not by much - buts its distinguishable.

[TheMarkMadsen]

gasol was the best big man in the league ATT



:roll: :roll:

then why was he making the all nba 3rd team instead of the first team..

[keep-itreal]

ITT: Agenda

[mehyaM24]

:roll: :roll:

then why was he making the all nba 3rd team instead of the first team..


lol

who was a better big man?

dirk is more of a perimeter player IMO

and garnett was injured in the playoffs


at the very least, gasol > duncan that season


BTW after the 2009 finals, gasol being the best big man (traditional big man) was a common consensus.

[TheMarkMadsen]

lol

who was a better big man?

dirk is more of a perimeter player IMO

and garnett was injured in the playoffs


at the very least, gasol > duncan that season


BTW after the 2009 finals, gasol being the best big man (traditional big man) was a common consensus.

all of the guys making the all nba team over him were better

"Dirk a perimeter player" "Gasol best big in the league" lmao these Kobe haters have no limit

Dirk, Dwight, Duncan, Yao, KG, Amare were all easily better and Bosh was just as good

[TheMarkMadsen]

BTW after the 2009 finals, gasol being the best big man (traditional big man) was a common consensus.

:oldlol: :oldlol:

must be why 4 other bigs were selected over him when it came time to select the bigs in the league

[mehyaM24]

kobe has how many unwarranted all nba offensive/defensive teams?

terrible argument

[TheMarkMadsen]

oh switching the topic to Kobe's all defensive teams.. solid argument to back up your claim of Pau being the best big in the league :yaohappy:

if the consensus was that Pau was the best big in the league like you claim then he wouldn't be relegated to being all nba 3rd team

lmao at this guy

there isn't even an all nba offensive team..

:lol

[Sportal]

2007 Cavs.

[TheMarkMadsen]

2007 Cavs.

we're are talking about championship teams

not teams that got swept in the finals

[ArbitraryWater]

all of the guys making the all nba team over him were better

"Dirk a perimeter player" "Gasol best big in the league" lmao these Kobe haters have no limit

Dirk, Dwight, Duncan, Yao, KG, Amare were all easily better and Bosh was just as good

Don't call your worthless self a Laker fan, ever.

[miles berg]

Really? Seriously?

Negating Kobe & Hakeem

Gasol>>>>anyone else on that Rockets team.
Odom>anyone on that Rockets team.

[mehyaM24]

oh switching the topic to Kobe's all defensive teams.. solid argument to back up your claim of Pau being the best big in the league :yaohappy:

if the consensus was that Pau was the best big in the league like you claim then he wouldn't be relegated to being all nba 3rd team

lmao at this guy

there isn't even an all nba offensive team..

:lol


i will give you dwight (talks of shaq and hakeem have made him irrelevant to me) - but even then, kobe STILL had the best traditional big man in the western conference.


btw my point about all-teams is to show how inaccurate they are.


i mean, lol @ kobe making a handful of defensive teams when his OWN coaches outed him for not playing defense

its a joke argument


2009 pau gasol > every center/traditional big in the west

literally.. this was the common consensus

[TheMarkMadsen]

i will give you dwight, but even then, kobe STILL had the best traditional big man in the league


my point about all-teams is to show how innacurate they are.


lol @ handful of defensive teams when his OWN coaches outed him for not playing defsnese

its a joke argument


2009 pau gasol > every center/traditional big in the west

literally.. this is was the common consensus

you are all over the place.. first it was Gasol was the best big in the league, now he was just the best big in the west..

and it was the "common consensus"

such a common consensus that "the best big in the league" playing in the biggest market in the league couldn't even get voted into being an all star starter :oldlol:

Yao, Duncan, Dirk and Amare were all better out west..

you are just making shit up at this point :oldlol:

[TheMarkMadsen]

Pau was never considered better than Dirk, and it sure as hell was never a consencus.. we can just go ahead and call bullshit on everything your saying about this..

[mehyaM24]

dirk plays like a perimeter player. watch him some, and you will see.

yao (hardly even played in the postseason), amare and duncan were not better in 2009 or 2010


colossal maniac lmao

[TheMarkMadsen]

yao, amare and duncan were not better in 2009 or 2010

colossal maniac lmao

except they were, they were all voted all nba team over him

Yao was easily better, as was Duncan

[TheMarkMadsen]

you are some type of delusional :oldlol: :oldlol:

[mehyaM24]

except they were, they were all voted all nba team over him

Yao was easily better, as was Duncan


kobe was voted over better defenders for all-teams too

again.. using all-teams, as i shown, isn't an argument.


pau gasol >>>> all those guys, save for dirk. but he shoots 3's and jumpshots. :oldlol:

[TonyMontana]

The 2009 Lakers main advantage was that they had the best frontcourt in the league. Bynum(when healthy), Gasol, and Odom were all legit allstar caliber players. No team at all had the frontline to compete except for a healthy Boston Celtics.

Gasol himself was at worst a top 3 bigman in the league. Dwight Howard was probably the best. Dirk was in there too, but some people don't consider him a traditional bigman. Other than Dwight there wasn't a better bigman in the paint.

The thread should be Duncans 2003 Spurs vs Hakeems 1994 Rockets.

[TheMarkMadsen]

kobe was voted over better defenders for all-teams too

again.. using all-teams, as i shown, isn't an argument.


pau gasol >>>> all those guys, save for dirk. but he shoots 3's and jumpshots. :oldlol:


you are going full retard right about now :lol

so fuccing shook that you are bringing up Kobe's all defensive teams list..

its an amazing argument when some dumbass like yourself if trying to claim tht the all nba 3rd team PF was the best big in the game

GTFO :roll:

[TheMarkMadsen]

The 2009 Lakers main advantage was that they had the best frontcourt in the league. Bynum(when healthy), Gasol, and Odom were all legit allstar caliber players. No team at all had the frontline to compete except for a healthy Boston Celtics.

Gasol himself was at worst a top 3 bigman in the league. Dwight Howard was probably the best. Dirk was in there too, but some people don't consider him a traditional bigman. Other than Dwight there wasn't a better bigman in the paint.

The thread should be Duncans 2003 Spurs vs Hakeems 1994 Rockets.

no no no no no NO

Bynum put up 6 & 4 during the 09 playoffs

9 & 7 in the 2010 playoffs

Bynum "when healthy' didn't come until after the Lakers were done making the finals, and that lasted all of like 90 games

Odom has never been an all star in his life mainly due to the fact that he's the most inconsistent player in the league (of those even worth mentioning)

[mehyaM24]

hold on. are you seriously saying kobe deserved ALL his defensive nba teams?

i can admit he belongs on a few, but even for the seasons his OWN COACHES said he wasn't playing defense?


really?

:roll: :roll:

[TheMarkMadsen]

why is this dude so stuck on Kobe's all defensive teams this is so fuccing random :oldlol: :oldlol:

I didn't say a god damn thing about Kobe's all defensive teams ITT and yet here you are claiming that I did.. LMAO

[TheMarkMadsen]

If Pau was the "consensus best big in the league" like you originally claimed then he wouldn't have been looked over iin 4 different slots for the all nba team

:oldlol: :oldlol:

keep bringing up Kobe though

fuccing moron

[mehyaM24]

how aren't you getting it?

unless you are sitting here and saying kobe deserved all his defensive selections, why the hell are you using all nba teams as some sort of argument?

do you think 1995 hakeem was the third best center in the league, because he only made the 3rd all nba team?


USING ALL NBA SELECTIONS IS THE DUMBEST ****ING ARGUMENT


:facepalm

[J Shuttlesworth]

Hmm.. 3ball, kenneth, Madsen all in the same thread. The agendas are strong with this one. I look forward to reading this after all the smoke has cleared. Page 1 already had some gold

[TheMarkMadsen]

how aren't you getting it?

unless you are sitting here and saying kobe deserved all his defensive selections, why the hell are you using all nba teams as some sort of argument?

do you think 1995 hakeem was the third best center in the league, because he only made the 3rd all nba team?


USING ALL NBA SELECTIONS IS THE DUMBEST ****ING ARGUMENT


:facepalm

and what are you using to support your argument besides your opinion and some dumb made up "consensus" :oldlol:

Since when did the "consensus best big in the league" get left off both all nba first and second team two years in a row..??

:roll:

[TheMarkMadsen]

Hmm.. 3ball, kenneth, Madsen all in the same thread. The agendas are strong with this one. I look forward to reading this after all the smoke has cleared. Page 1 already had some gold


so you agree that Pau was the best big in the league in 09/10..??

[J Shuttlesworth]

so you agree that Pau was the best big in the league in 09/10..??
:biggums: How are you inferring that from what I just said? All I said was I look forward to reading this thread later, and was laughing at the back and forth between kenneth and 3ball.

If you read what I just said as "Pau is the best big in the league in 09/10"... I mean you are just insane. Your agendas are out of control if that's how you think.

[GrapeApe]

and what are you using to support your argument besides your opinion and some dumb made up "consensus" :oldlol:

Since when did the "consensus best big in the league" get left off both all nba first and second team two years in a row..??

:roll:

I'm not necessarily saying Pau was the best big man in the league those years, but it's hard to make first or second team all NBA if you're not a first option (unless you're a DPOY type player like Garnett). There's only 10 total spots on those teams so naturally they're usually first option players.

[TheMarkMadsen]

:biggums: How are you inferring that from what I just said? All I said was I look forward to reading this thread later, and was laughing at the back and forth between kenneth and 3ball.

If you read what I just said as "Pau is the best big in the league in 09/10"... I mean you are just insane. Your agendas are out of control if that's how you think.

thanks for proving my point

all I'm doing in this thread is arguing that Pau wasn't the best big in the league during 09/10

there is no agenda there

yet you lumped my name in as if I was pushing some type of agenda ITT

[J Shuttlesworth]

thanks for proving my point

all I'm doing in this thread is arguing that Pau wasn't the best big in the league during 09/10

there is no agenda there

yet you lumped my name in as if I was pushing some type of agenda ITT
Real talk... I didn't read a single post of yours in this thread. I just looked at the first page and saw you/mehya getting into it but didn't read any of it.

I said that because... well, you're clearly an agenda poster. Other threads have proven that, and it's pretty much common knowledge that you're a Kobe agenda poster. See your spin of my previous post for definitive proof.

Another example is Kenneth... nobody has to read any more of his posts to know that they are pro-kobe anti everyone else agenda posts. It's been historically documented, like your posts.

[TheMarkMadsen]

I'm not necessarily saying Pau was the best big man in the league those years, but it's hard to make first or second team all NBA if you're not a first option (unless you're a DPOY type player like Garnett). There's only 10 total spots on those teams so naturally they're usually first option players.

do you consider the first option to be the A) guy leading the team in FGA or B) the first option the best player on the team regardless of FGA?

If A)

Yao made the all nba 2nd team in 09 the league while not leading his team in FGA

if B)

Amare made the all nba 2nd team in 10 while not being the best player on his team

So I would have to disagree

[TheMarkMadsen]

Real talk... I didn't read a single post of yours in this thread. I just looked at the first page and saw you/mehya getting into it but didn't read any of it.


k thanks for posting in this thread without reading a single post of somebody you are trying to call out you fuccing moron :lol :lol

[J Shuttlesworth]

k thanks for posting in this thread without reading a single post of somebody you are trying to call out you fuccing moron :lol :lol
Yeah calling you an agenda poster is "calling you out"

You are a strange dude. I don't think anyone else on this forum could have read my post and somehow spinned it into "Pau is the best center in the league".... only you. You are truly special

Plus my post you quoted clearly indicated that I hadn't read the thread... I said I look forward to reading it, and you lost your shit over it :facepalm

[TheMarkMadsen]

Yeah calling you an agenda poster is "calling you out"

You are a strange dude. I don't think anyone else on this forum could have read my post and somehow spinned it into "Pau is the best center in the league".... only you. You are truly special


I was being facetious you imbecile and just pointing out how i'm not pushing any agenda ITT by arguing against him being the best big in the league :oldlol:

pretty dumb of you not to realize that.. :facepalm

[J Shuttlesworth]

I was being facetious
Yeah... no, you weren't. You are really that sensitive :roll:

[TheMarkMadsen]

Yeah... no, you weren't. You are really that sensitive :roll:

i'm not surprised that you couldn't see the obvious set up

[GrapeApe]

do you consider the first option to be the A) guy leading the team in FGA or B) the first option the best player on the team regardless of FGA?

If A)

Yao made the all nba 2nd team in 09 the league while not leading his team in FGA

if B)

Amare made the all nba 2nd team in 10 while not being the best player on his team

So I would have to disagree

Are you actually arguing that it's not more difficult and rare for a second option (by either definition you gave) to make first or second team all NBA? I never said it was impossible, just more rare, which was my point.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Are you actually arguing that it's not more difficult and rare for a second option (by either definition you gave) to make first or second team all NBA? I never said it was impossible, just more rare, which was my point.

I asked you a pretty simple question and gave you examples of guys who made the all nba 2nd or first team in 09/10 while either a) not being the best player on their team or b) not being the first option

it might be more difficult but multiple bigs who were in the exact same situation as pau (not the first option/not the best player on the team) made it over him on the all nba teams in the years we are disusing

:confusedshrug: :confusedshrug:

[J Shuttlesworth]

i'm not surprised that you couldn't see the obvious set up
http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/738/025/db0.jpg

[TheMarkMadsen]

says the "agenda is strong in this thread"

**ask if he agrees with the point i'm arguing against**

..he doesn't..

**so how am I pushing agenda ITT?**

..refuses to accept the obvious and post unoriginal meme..


:sleeping :sleeping

[J Shuttlesworth]

says the "agenda is strong in this thread"

**ask if he agrees with the point i'm arguing against**

..he doesn't..

**so how am I pushing agenda ITT?**

..refuses to accept the obvious and post unoriginal meme..


:sleeping :sleeping
Wait so it wasn't a joke? I thought you said you made that comment as some kind of farce... now you're backtracking? :biggums:

How bout this?
-Poster says he looks forward to reading this thread later
-Assume that poster believes Gasol to be the best big man in the league

And I've clearly got you upset over this, and the meme illustrated my point perfectly :lol

I guess you don't seem to get the part where most people see you as a poster with an agenda. That's okay... kenneth and 3ball probably don't think they're viewed that way either :lol

[GIF REACTION]

https://espnfivethirtyeight.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/paine-datalab-lebron-cast-2.png

Funnily enough, Lebron's 2013 cast was weaker than either of Kobe's back to back squads

[GIF REACTION]

Actually

Both of Lebron's championships had weaker casts than any of Kobes

[TheMarkMadsen]

Wait so it wasn't a joke? I thought you said you made that comment as some kind of farce... now you're backtracking? :biggums:



i did.. :confusedshrug:

I facetiously asked you a question to prove a point that arguing against Pau being the best big in 09/10 is not agenda driven.. this is like the 10th time i've explained this to you.. i'm done holding your hand through this..

contribute something to the thread, argue a point or just leave

:rolleyes:

[J Shuttlesworth]

i did.. :confusedshrug:

I facetiously asked you a question to prove a point that arguing against Pau being the best big in 09/10 is not agenda driven.. this is like the 10th time i've explained this to you.. i'm done holding your hand through this..

contribute something to the thread, argue a point or just leave

:rolleyes:
You miss the point where you can be right about Pau not being the best big in the league and still be an agenda poster... it doesn't change your other thousands of biased Kobe posts. Kenneth can make a correct point too... doesn't make him any less biased.

But yeah... I was happy mentioning I would catch up on this thread later, but you felt indulged to bring back into it. I'll put that on you. Next time, don't lose your cool over something so petty.

[G0ATbe]

http://justamemo.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/lakers-2009-champs.jpg
Almost forgot how terrible that 09 laker squad was. How Godbe got those scrubs a chip is beyond me:applause: .

[BlackWhiteGreen]

Almost forgot how terrible that 09 laker squad was. How Godbe got those scrubs a chip is beyond me:applause: .

Search "Kevin Garnett" and "knee injury", should sort you out.

[Smoke117]

Search "Kevin Garnett" and "knee injury", should sort you out.

Heh...seriously. The Celtics were BETTER in 09 than they were in 08...the were gelling much better and everyone was healthier (especially Ray who was coming off those double ankle surgeries and came back earlier than he should have the previous season)...The Celtics would have crushed the Lakers in 5 if KG never went down with the knee.

[scm5]

Heh...seriously. The Celtics were BETTER in 09 than they were in 08...the were gelling much better and everyone was healthier (especially Ray who was coming off those double ankle surgeries and came back earlier than he should have the previous season)...The Celtics would have crushed the Lakers in 5 if KG never went down with the knee.

In 08' the Lakers would have demolished the Celtics w/ a healthy Bynum and Ariza for the whole series.

[Hey Yo]

all of the guys making the all nba team over him were better

"Dirk a perimeter player" "Gasol best big in the league" lmao these Kobe haters have no limit

Dirk, Dwight, Duncan, Yao, KG, Amare were all easily better and Bosh was just as good
Pau was 3rd team PF in 09. He's in the same boat as Duncan...listed as a PF but expected to play C at times.

So when it came to voting for all NBA PF, only Dirk and Duncan > Pau. The others you listed (besides Stat) are true C'S

[NBAplayoffs2001]

kennethgriffin, meet 3ball.. you guys are a perfect fit.

they can compile 1000 pages of nonsense back and forth.

[ralph_i_el]

yo if we can get 3ball and KennyG to keep arguing the rest of the forum will be so much better:applause:

PAU WAS BETTER THAN MJ
EVERYTHING YOU KNOW ABOUT KOBE IS A LIE
MJ WOULDN'T HAVE WON IN 2008 ON THE LAKERS

[ralph_i_el]

Let's be real though, Pau and Odom were two of the highest IQ bigs in the league. Amazing passing from both of them.

So Kobe had:
1. Huge lineups to rebound his bricks
2. Great (and willing) passers to get him shots
3. Ariza or Artest to guard the opponent's best wing
4. Clutch ass D-Fish

[ShawkFactory]

Let's be real though, Pau and Odom were two of the highest IQ bigs in the league. Amazing passing from both of them.

So Kobe had:
1. Huge lineups to rebound his bricks
2. Great (and willing) passers to get him shots
3. Ariza or Artest to guard the opponent's best wing
4. Clutch ass D-Fish
Everyone knows Kobe had the best squad in the league. Especially for his strengths and weaknesses as a player.

[Fallen Angel]

Kobe Bryant had an All-Star teammate.
Hakeem didn't.

Kobe Bryant had an All-NBA teammate.
Hakeem didn't.

Kobe Bryant had a teammate who averaged >15 PPG.
Hakeem didn't.

Kobe Bryant's second and third best teammates were Pau Gasol and Lamar Odom.
Hakeem's were Vernon Maxwell and Otis Thorpe.
thread should have ended with this

[NBAplayoffs2001]

thread should have ended with this

Ariza and Fisher were no slouches either. Ariza was always a great defender and he barely missed any 3s in that playoffs. Fisher has the championship experience with Kobe and has great leadership aspect. Lamar Odom is a guy who can do a little bit of everything and give you at least 10 points a game with many other significant plays like assists/rebounds, creating opportunities for teammates. Pau Gasol was still a very legitimate PF at the time, an All Star and arguably an All-NBA caliber PF.

[I<3NBA]

"worst supporting cast"

lists Hakeem as a supporting cast and compares him to Pau

https://38.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lrqngyvd781qllt8v.png

[ImKobe]

Haven't seen so much revisionist history in one thread in a while...

Got love for Pau but anyone calling him the best big man or the best player at his position in any of his NBA seasons is straight up trolling/bullshitting.

Pau as the man - 0 - 16 in the Playoffs, and he had help on a few of his rosters in Memphis, having prime Mike Miller, Shane Battier, young Rudy Gay and Mike Conley and a bunch of decent role players, yet not one Playoff victory to show for it :kobe:

There's no way you could ever put him above guys like KG, Duncan, Dirk and Howard, when those guys led their teams deep into the Playoffs and had HUGE numbers in big games

Pau was efficient as hell playing next to Kobe as a 2nd option but he was never going to have success as a leader of a team in the NBA...he was such a disappointment in Memphis that they broke up that team and traded him while he was in his prime...

As much as we shit on Dwight, he had monster numbers and led a team to the Finals over a peak Lebron while putting up 40 pt 20 reb games, KG led his Wolves to the WCF and he outplayed Gasol when they met in the 08 Finals..look at what an older Duncan did to Pau H2H in 08 WCF...

Even an injured Yao ming was dropping big numbers, Dirk straight up DESTROYED Pau in 2011, reason we got swept that year.

[ralph_i_el]

Haven't seen so much revisionist history in one thread in a while...

Got love for Pau but anyone calling him the best big man or the best player at his position in any of his NBA seasons is straight up trolling/bullshitting.

Pau as the man - 0 - 16 in the Playoffs, and he had help on a few of his rosters in Memphis, having prime Mike Miller, Shane Battier, young Rudy Gay and Mike Conley and a bunch of decent role players, yet not one Playoff victory to show for it :kobe:

There's no way you could ever put him above guys like KG, Duncan, Dirk and Howard, when those guys led their teams deep into the Playoffs and had HUGE numbers in big games

Pau was efficient as hell playing next to Kobe as a 2nd option but he was never going to have success as a leader of a team in the NBA...he was such a disappointment in Memphis that they broke up that team and traded him while he was in his prime...

As much as we shit on Dwight, he had monster numbers and led a team to the Finals over a peak Lebron while putting up 40 pt 20 reb games, KG led his Wolves to the WCF and he outplayed Gasol when they met in the 08 Finals..look at what an older Duncan did to Pau H2H in 08 WCF...

Even an injured Yao ming was dropping big numbers, Dirk straight up DESTROYED Pau in 2011, reason we got swept that year.

He was traded halfway through Gay's second year and Conley's 1st. Mike Miler and Shane Battier are good role players, but neither was ever even close to being an All-Star.

Blaming Pau for 2011:biggums: The Lakers gave the **** up as a whole. Kobe shot poorly, nobody played D, Bynum sulked until he nailed Barea. Dirk played out of his mind and the Mavs picked the slow Lakers apart in a demoralizing fashion.

Dwight went to the finals with a really good squad. KG even had some really good squads for the Wolves. Pau never had a really good squad. He had a decent 3rd option scorer in Miller, and an elite defensive player in Battier. Outside of them he never had anything.

Big men who can pass are ESSENTIAL to championship teams. That's where Pau really shines. He's one of the most complete post players of all time. He can shoot, so his pump-fakes work (unlike Dwight). He can pass, so he breaks down defenses when he gets a post touch, and he can score, which is obviously important.

[VIP2000]

Haven't seen so much revisionist history in one thread in a while...

Got love for Pau but anyone calling him the best big man or the best player at his position in any of his NBA seasons is straight up trolling/bullshitting.

Pau as the man - 0 - 16 in the Playoffs, and he had help on a few of his rosters in Memphis, having prime Mike Miller, Shane Battier, young Rudy Gay and Mike Conley and a bunch of decent role players, yet not one Playoff victory to show for it :kobe:

There's no way you could ever put him above guys like KG, Duncan, Dirk and Howard, when those guys led their teams deep into the Playoffs and had HUGE numbers in big games

Pau was efficient as hell playing next to Kobe as a 2nd option but he was never going to have success as a leader of a team in the NBA...he was such a disappointment in Memphis that they broke up that team and traded him while he was in his prime...

As much as we shit on Dwight, he had monster numbers and led a team to the Finals over a peak Lebron while putting up 40 pt 20 reb games, KG led his Wolves to the WCF and he outplayed Gasol when they met in the 08 Finals..look at what an older Duncan did to Pau H2H in 08 WCF...

Even an injured Yao ming was dropping big numbers, Dirk straight up DESTROYED Pau in 2011, reason we got swept that year.

Pau was a borderline top 10 player in his prime, maybe slightly ranked above Chris Bosh (who was also borderline Top 10). Can't lead a team to a championship, but was a pretty good 2nd option.

And while the '09 and '10 Lakers were not historically stacked, they definitely had one, if not the best frontcourts in the league (only a healthy Celtics could really compete in that department). I remember watching the '09 Finals against the Magic. The main reason the Magic was in the Finals was because Dwight took advantage of old ass Zydrunas and Ben Wallace in the ECF. And then in the Finals, the Lakers were able to throw Odom, Gasol, and Bynum at him (sometimes all 3 at the same time, if I recall correctly).

[SamuraiSWISH]

Starting in 2008 the league got much better than it was from '98 to 2007. Finalized adjustment to rule sets. Less influx in skill less high school draftees. Not the strict no touch policy as seen in the rule adjustment phase from 2006 and 2007 seasons. Players were beginning to be able to pass, shoot, and score from an individual or team perspective better than they had been from '96 to 2004 in the grind it out, high school rookies, inept ISO based offensive era.

And 2009 was the one down season from that era. Main reason being KG's career changing injury, which basically ended the now dominant Celtics. Coupled with Mo Williams underperforming, Nash and Duncan getting old, Yao Ming's career ending injuries and the weakest form of the western conference we had seen in recent memory ... allowed a Dwight Howard and Rafer Alston led team to the Finals.

[ralph_i_el]

Starting in 2008 the league got much better than it was from '98 to 2007. Finalized adjustment to rule sets. Less influx in skill less high school draftees. Not the strict no touch policy as seen in the rule adjustment phase from 2006 and 2007 seasons. Players were beginning to be able to pass, shoot, and score from an individual or team perspective better than they had been from '96 to 2004 in the grind it out, high school rookies, inept ISO based offensive era.

And 2009 was the one down season from that era. Main reason being KG's career changing injury, which basically ended the now dominant Celtics. Coupled with Mo Williams underperforming, Nash and Duncan getting old, Yao Ming's career ending injuries and the weakest form of the western conference we had seen in recent memory ... allowed a Dwight Howard and Rafer Alston led team to the Finals.

That Orlando team helped usher in the 3-ball era. Turkoglu, Lewis, and Jameer combined to shoot like 16 3's a game at 40%. Van Gundy understood that a team could get a lot of easy 3's if they had a way to collapse the defense, and think they actually set the 3 point attempt record at the time.


edit: forgot Jameer got hurt that season. He used to be a beast :(

[Hey Yo]

Haven't seen so much revisionist history in one thread in a while...

Got love for Pau but anyone calling him the best big man or the best player at his position in any of his NBA seasons is straight up trolling/bullshitting.

Pau as the man - 0 - 16 in the Playoffs, and he had help on a few of his rosters in Memphis, having prime Mike Miller, Shane Battier, young Rudy Gay and Mike Conley and a bunch of decent role players, yet not one Playoff victory to show for it :kobe:

There's no way you could ever put him above guys like KG, Duncan, Dirk and Howard, when those guys led their teams deep into the Playoffs and had HUGE numbers in big games

Pau was efficient as hell playing next to Kobe as a 2nd option but he was never going to have success as a leader of a team in the NBA...he was such a disappointment in Memphis that they broke up that team and traded him while he was in his prime...

As much as we shit on Dwight, he had monster numbers and led a team to the Finals over a peak Lebron while putting up 40 pt 20 reb games, KG led his Wolves to the WCF and he outplayed Gasol when they met in the 08 Finals..look at what an older Duncan did to Pau H2H in 08 WCF...

Even an injured Yao ming was dropping big numbers, Dirk straight up DESTROYED Pau in 2011, reason we got swept that year.
Memphis went 0-12 with Pau in the playoffs. Not 0-16

No need for extreme exaggerations. He won rookie of the year and was an all-star. Grizz wanted to clear cap space and start over (Pau had 3yrs left on his deal.) Kwame's expiring contract was the highest they could find (9.1mil)

[Jameerthefear]

That Orlando team helped usher in the 3-ball era. Turkoglu, Lewis, and Jameer combined to shoot like 16 3's a game at 40%. Van Gundy understood that a team could get a lot of easy 3's if they had a way to collapse the defense, and think they actually set the 3 point attempt record at the time.


edit: forgot Jameer got hurt that season. He used to be a beast :(
that team would be even better today

[kennethgriffin]

https://espnfivethirtyeight.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/paine-datalab-lebron-cast-2.png

Funnily enough, Lebron's 2013 cast was weaker than either of Kobe's back to back squads


This is why people have trust issues with analytics

The colluded heat in 2014 are one of the worst supporting casts? Ok

:lol

[ralph_i_el]

This is why people have trust issues with analytics

The colluded heat in 2014 are one of the worst supporting casts? Ok

:lol

Wade was hurt :confusedshrug: They played horrible D. Their bench was old as **** and got run off the court often.

[KembaWalker]

https://espnfivethirtyeight.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/paine-datalab-lebron-cast-2.png

Funnily enough, Lebron's 2013 cast was weaker than either of Kobe's back to back squads

Is there a bigger differential then 2011 where the higher team lost?

God I didn't know Dirk's team was considered top 5 worst since 1985 by this criteria

+5.1 vs +0.4

Dirk :bowdown:

[kennethgriffin]

analytics think

wade
bosh
allen
lewis
battier
haslem
beasley
chalmers
cole
j.jones


is on the same level of


thorpe
maxwell
horry
kenny
ellie
cassel
herrera
brooks
bullard











i'l say it again.. this is why analytics are worth nothing in the eyes of millions

[jstern]

Don't try to re write history, the Lakers were heavy favorites in 09 and 10. Nobody back then was calling them underdogs against the Magic and the 5th seeded Celtics.

[VIP2000]

Don't try to re write history, the Lakers were heavy favorites in 09 and 10. Nobody back then was calling them underdogs against the Magic and the 5th seeded Celtics.

Lakers were actually the favorites in the Finals in 08 against the Celtics too, but mainly because the Celtics struggled with the Hawks and the Cavs in the previous rounds.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Let's be real though, Pau and Odom were two of the highest IQ bigs in the league. Amazing passing from both of them.

So Kobe had:
1. Huge lineups to rebound his bricks
2. Great (and willing) passers to get him shots
3. Ariza or Artest to guard the opponent's best wing
4. Clutch ass D-Fish

:roll: :roll:

Odom on of the highest iq bigs in the league..??

Fisher was garbage, Bynum put up 6 & 4, and combined 7 &6 for the b2b runs..

man yall will say anything to discredit Kobe..

[TheMarkMadsen]

Is there a bigger differential then 2011 where the higher team lost?

God I didn't know Dirk's team was considered top 5 worst since 1985 by this criteria

+5.1 vs +0.4

Dirk :bowdown:

every time bran stans post that list they are just highlighting how bran lost against one of the worst finals teams of all time while he was playing with one of the best finals teams of all time

:oldlol: :oldlol:

[rmt]

Kobe won back to back titles with the worst supporting cast in the history of the NBA when considering back to back titles.

Pau is the softest back to back title winner as a 2nd option of all time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=es0jt6za2Uc&feature=youtu.be

Kobe is 2nd GOAT.

Seeing as you guys put so much store in back to backs and are forever knocking the Spurs for not repeating, it must take a lot of BACKBONE to repeat - backbone that should surely apply to the 2nd option too. Maybe you want to trade Duncan's 2nd option in 2003 for Gasol in 2009 and 2010 - somehow I don't think so.

Playoffs
2009 Gasol 18.3 pts / 10.8 rebs / 2.5 asst / 2 blks 58%FG 21.9 PER 4.3 WS 6.5 BPM 2 VORP all-nba 3rd, all-star
2010 Gasol 19.6 pts / 11.1 rebs / 3.5 asst / 2.1 blks 53.9%FG 24 PER 4.3 WS 6.3 BPM 1.9 VORP all-nba 3rd, all-star
2003 Parker 14.7 pts / 3.5 asst 40.3%FG 11.9 PER 1.1 WS -1.8 BPM 0 VORP



The thread should be Duncans 2003 Spurs vs Hakeems 1994 Rockets.

[kennethgriffin]

Seeing as you guys put so much store in back to backs and are forever knocking the Spurs for not repeating, it must take a lot of BACKBONE to repeat - backbone that should surely apply to the 2nd option too. Maybe you want to trade Duncan's 2nd option in 2003 for Gasol in 2009 and 2010 - somehow I don't think so.

Playoffs
2009 Gasol 18.3 pts / 10.8 rebs / 2.5 asst / 2 blks 58%FG 21.9 PER 4.3 WS 6.5 BPM 2 VORP all-nba 3rd, all-star
2010 Gasol 19.6 pts / 11.1 rebs / 3.5 asst / 2.1 blks 53.9%FG 24 PER 4.3 WS 6.3 BPM 1.9 VORP all-nba 3rd, all-star
2003 Parker 14.7 pts / 3.5 asst 40.3%FG 11.9 PER 1.1 WS -1.8 BPM 0 VORP


spurs were built strictly on defense though.. up until around the 2010's and beyond


so its useless to talk stats

[rmt]

spurs were built strictly on defense though.. up until around the 2010's and beyond


so its useless to talk stats

Defense is only important when it suits you as in when you have no explanation or can't argue against blatant facts. Otherwise, scoring (especially when it comes to Kobe) is all-important. Try again. Which sane person is gonna choose Duncan's 2003 2nd option over 2009 and 2010 Gasol? No one.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Seeing as you guys put so much store in back to backs and are forever knocking the Spurs for not repeating, it must take a lot of BACKBONE to repeat - backbone that should surely apply to the 2nd option too. Maybe you want to trade Duncan's 2nd option in 2003 for Gasol in 2009 and 2010 - somehow I don't think so.

Playoffs
2009 Gasol 18.3 pts / 10.8 rebs / 2.5 asst / 2 blks 58%FG 21.9 PER 4.3 WS 6.5 BPM 2 VORP all-nba 3rd, all-star
2010 Gasol 19.6 pts / 11.1 rebs / 3.5 asst / 2.1 blks 53.9%FG 24 PER 4.3 WS 6.3 BPM 1.9 VORP all-nba 3rd, all-star
2003 Parker 14.7 pts / 3.5 asst 40.3%FG 11.9 PER 1.1 WS -1.8 BPM 0 VORP

you must have missed the part where he said back to back champions.. even though you highlighted it in his post..

back to back ya know that thing the spurs have never done..

[GrapeApe]

analytics think

wade
bosh
allen
lewis
battier
haslem
beasley
chalmers
cole
j.jones


is on the same level of


thorpe
maxwell
horry
kenny
ellie
cassel
herrera
brooks
bullard











i'l say it again.. this is why analytics are worth nothing in the eyes of millions

What exactly is the issue? You're just looking the names on the back of jerseys rather than actual production. Wade was injured. Bosh underperformed. Allen, Lewis, Battier, and Haslem were all WELL past their prime and a complete shell of the players they once were. The other guys barely played or just flat out sucked, and I won't even get into Spo's incompetence.

[ralph_i_el]

analytics think

wade
bosh
allen
lewis
battier
haslem
beasley
chalmers
cole
j.jones


is on the same level of


thorpe
maxwell
horry
kenny
ellie
cassel
herrera
brooks
bullard











i'l say it again.. this is why analytics are worth nothing in the eyes of millions


Everyone on the heat had a foot in the grave. LeBron had them on his back all playoffs long.


:roll: :roll:

Odom on of the highest iq bigs in the league..??

Fisher was garbage, Bynum put up 6 & 4, and combined 7 &6 for the b2b runs..

man yall will say anything to discredit Kobe..

ok, you tell ME what type of player Odom was. I remember him being able to play the 4 and 3, with a GREAT handle and passing ability for a 4. I also remember him being able to hit the 3 from the 4 spot, all while being a good rebounder. Sounds like the kind of jack-of-all-trades player I'd want on a championship team.

[ralph_i_el]

spurs were built strictly on defense though.. up until around the 2010's and beyond


so its useless to talk stats

and who was the backbone of the defense? Tim Duncan

[T_L_P]

spurs were built strictly on defense though.. up until around the 2010's and beyond


so its useless to talk stats

09 Lakers: 3rd ORtg, 6th DRtg

Playoffs: 5th ORtg, 2nd DRtg

03 Spurs: 7th ORtg, 3rd DRtg

Playoffs: 9th ORtg, 2nd DRtg

Saying the Spurs were built strictly on defense in comparison to the 09 Lakers isn't exactly fair, especially not when we're comparing 2nd options. Pau was just a million times better than Duncan's second option that year.

However, the discussion in this thread is about b2b teams so I agree that they shouldn't be talked about. We all know Duncan's 03 Spurs is weaker than any of Kobe's title teams.

[TheMarkMadsen]

ok, you tell ME what type of player Odom was. I remember him being able to play the 4 and 3, with a GREAT handle and passing ability for a 4. I also remember him being able to hit the 3 from the 4 spot, all while being a good rebounder. Sounds like the kind of jack-of-all-trades player I'd want on a championship team.

what does any of what you just said justify your statement that Odom was one of the highest IQ bigs in the league.. being versatile doesn't = having a high IQ :confusedshrug: :confusedshrug:


Odom was good off the bench, but EXTREMELY INCONSISTENT.. he would look great one game and then would just go ghost for the next 2

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/443586-why-lamar-odom-is-terribly-inconsistent

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/461615-lamar-odom-an-inconsistent-yet-highly-underrated-player

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/jun/01/sports/sp-random1

https://yallkiltit.wordpress.com/tag/lamar-odom-inconsistent/

a highly documented inconsistent player.. he was so fuccing frustrating to watch.. he'd drop 20 & 10 on monday and then drop 20 points combined for the rest of the week, it drove Laker fans crazy

he wasn't much of a shooter like you are making him out to be, during the regular season he averaged like .4 3pt makes per game, he was a low volume 3pt shooter but could hit at time.. his shot was on in 09, but fell off a cliff in 10, he's the type of guy who's 3pt % would drop 30% between off seasons like it did in 09 & 10

everything about him was inconsistent.. having mentally tough guys around him like Kobe and PJ is the only way he was going to hold up for 3 straight finals..

He was good and his versatility helped us, but he wasn't anywhere near being the highest IQ big in the league like you claimed.. his inconsistencies were hidden enough for us to get away with due to the consistent play of Kobe and Pau..

[GrapeApe]

Everyone on the heat had a foot in the grave. LeBron had them on his back all playoffs long.



ok, you tell ME what type of player Odom was. I remember him being able to play the 4 and 3, with a GREAT handle and passing ability for a 4. I also remember him being able to hit the 3 from the 4 spot, all while being a good rebounder. Sounds like the kind of jack-of-all-trades player I'd want on a championship team.

I wouldn't go that far on the bolded. It wasn't until the finals that the supporting cast really fell off. Wade in particular was solid in the first three rounds, and he was very good in the ECF against the Pacers averaging 21/5/4 on 55% with 1.7 steals. That's what's so perplexing. Wade seemed primed for a strong finals. I've always felt that the "maintenance plan" bullshit killed his conditioning. He had nothing left in the tank in the finals.

[rmt]

However, the discussion in this thread is about b2b teams so I agree that they shouldn't be talked about. We all know Duncan's 03 Spurs is weaker than any of Kobe's title teams.

There is nothing in the original post or title about back to back. I did quote the poster below who said this thread should be about Duncan's 03 vs Hakeem's 94 teams.



The thread should be Duncans 2003 Spurs vs Hakeems 1994 Rockets.


you must have missed the part where he said back to back champions.. even though you highlighted it in his post..

back to back ya know that thing the spurs have never done..

I didn't miss anything. I am pointing out that you guys love to pump up the back to back but want to discredit Pau's great contribution in order to pump Kobe by calling Pau soft. I posted the stats to show that Pau was anything but soft and to show you what a really soft 2nd option looks like.

[TheMarkMadsen]

being soft has nothing to do with stats

he was soft down low and would shy away from contact at times

[rmt]

being soft has nothing to do with stats

he was soft down low and would shy away from contact at times

Seems to me that some posters think that efficient, effective production with double digit rebounds, the second highest DRtg (not including Mbenga) and the highest ORtg is soft since his name is not Kobe Bryant. Any other fans would be happy with that kind of 2nd option production. Maybe Pau should chuck up low percentage shots so that he seems TOUGH.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Seems to me that some posters think that efficient, effective production with double digit rebounds, the second highest DRtg (not including Mbenga) and the highest ORtg is soft since his name is not Kobe Bryant. Any other fans would be happy with that kind of 2nd option production. Maybe Pau should chuck up low percentage shots so that he seems TOUGH.

maybe you should read my post again

soft has nothing to do with stats

people called Dirk soft for years

has nothing to do with stats

[Bigsmoke]

The rockets would win too

[kennethgriffin]

09 Lakers: 3rd ORtg, 6th DRtg

Playoffs: 5th ORtg, 2nd DRtg

03 Spurs: 7th ORtg, 3rd DRtg

Playoffs: 9th ORtg, 2nd DRtg

Saying the Spurs were built strictly on defense in comparison to the 09 Lakers isn't exactly fair, especially not when we're comparing 2nd options. Pau was just a million times better than Duncan's second option that year.

However, the discussion in this thread is about b2b teams so I agree that they shouldn't be talked about. We all know Duncan's 03 Spurs is weaker than any of Kobe's title teams.


please.. enough with the analytics... that shit says 22 year old kobe is better than 30 year old shaq... soo?

plus .. bill russell isnt a top 100 player of all time according to advanced stats




and it has the colluded heat as a bad supporting cast

:facepalm


an*l...ylics

just shut up tlp

anyone with a brain will concede that the early 2000s spurs were a team built on defense

[dubeta]

How did this go 8 pages???


ISH troll game at an all-time low :oldlol:

[Mr. Jabbar]

because Gasol is a franchise-level player

im a HUGE fan of 3ball but this shit is ban worthy :(

[JT123]

How did this go 8 pages???


ISH troll game at an all-time low :oldlol:
This place has missed you brother. Unfortunately the mods only ban the funny trolls, and let shitty ones like 3ball make the same thread every day twice a day. :facepalm

[dubeta]

This place has missed you brother. Unfortunately the mods only ban the funny trolls, and let shitty ones like 3ball make the same thread every day twice a day. :facepalm

JT how are you bro?? Its been too long brother. We complement each other here, the perfect tag team (along with the others, lebronxrings, roundmoundofreb etc)

GOOD to see you :cheers:


Dont worry about 3ball, I am the 80's Celtics and Bucks to 3balls 1-9 Jordan!

[JT123]

JT how are you bro?? Its been too long brother. We complement each other here, the perfect tag team (along with the others, lebronxrings, roundmoundofreb etc)

GOOD to see you :cheers:


Dont worry about 3ball, I am the 80's Celtics and Bucks to 3balls 1-9 Jordan!
:roll: Jordan stans on suicide watch

[warriorfan]

this ngga is on one

[Spurs5Rings2014]

The thread should be Duncans 2003 Spurs vs Hakeems 1994 Rockets.

:applause:

[AirFederer]

1994 rockets vs 2009 lakers:

C - Hakeem > C - Gasol
PF - Thorpe > PF Odom ( thorpe 20ppg peeks, more consistent, longer career )
SF - Horry > Ariza ( young horry more clutch, better shooter, better defender )
SG - Kenny < Kobe
PG - Maxwell > Fisher

6th man - Cassell > Bynum (cassell 16/7 per36m...... drew 6ppg? )
Ellie > Brown
herrera > luke
brooks > farmar
Bullard > sasha
jent > mbenga
cureton > morrison



well atleast the lakers got one out of 12



[/IMG]
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[Lakers 24/7]

I'm confused. All I've ever heard from Bean stans (and Jelly Bean himself) is how much of a soft, weak, untalented beta Dwight Howard (Fright Coward to some) is... But the guy was the best player and leader of the team that Bean and his Lakers beat in '09 to win a ring. Rashard Lewis and Hedo Turkoglu were his supporting cast.

So which is it- was 2009 some legendary accomplishment or was that 'ship just good fortune, a product of a weak league producing weak opposition where the ultimate beta basketball player could lead a rag tag group of 'others' to the championship round? :confusedshrug:

It was an accomplishment because of who we had to beat to get to the finals.

Then we met dwight and beat them in 5 games. won in their home court. Because they werent even close to our level.

Easy.

[ArbitraryWater]

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:lol