21 points, 20 rebounds, 10 assists, and 8 blocks

[keep-itreal]

Goat finals performance of all time?

[GIF REACTION]

Lebron is at the front door and he wants answers.

[iamgine]

Why choose that when you can have 28 points, 20 rebounds, 9 assists, and 8 blocks.

[ClipperRevival]

Individual numbers mean little without context. I can show you a guy who had 30 points who actually hurt the team because his shots came at the expense of the offense and show you a guy who had 12/5/5 and contributed mightily because he played the game the right way and made the correct basketball play almost everytime.

[La Frescobaldi]

Individual numbers mean little without context. I can show you a guy who had 30 points who actually hurt the team because his shots came at the expense of the offense and show you a guy who had 12/5/5 and contributed mightily because he played the game the right way and made the correct basketball play almost everytime.

Marshmallow Anthony has never been to the Finals.

[Brunch@Five]

Why choose that when you can have 28 points, 20 rebounds, 9 assists, and 8 blocks.

this

[MP.Trey]

Is this 03 TD? Underrated performance. :cheers:

[Spurs5Rings2014]

Is this 03 TD? Underrated performance. :cheers:

:cheers:

[Clifton]

Is this 03 TD? Underrated performance
I disagree. It's an overrated performance and gets talked about all the time. Most of those blocks were simply sending back the little floaters and hooks of 6'8 Kenyon Martin. Which is valuable, but his blocks from those games are still inflated. It's not like he was sending back Kobe or MJ at the rim. Or intimidating on the level of Shaq. The fact that Kmart kept trying to shoot over him proves that TD wasn't having a team-wide impact on the Nets defensively on the level of a Shaq.

Duncan's a great player but the stats from that game are inflated. And 21 points from a #1 offensive option is not a lot. The 20 rebounds are also inflated.

He did a great job moving the ball though.

But any given Finals performance of MJ or Shaq crushes this in terms of impact.

[Kblaze8855]

Im thinking we need a new way to describe someone thinking a guys numbers are that impressive. "Inflated" just doesnt work. At all.

[DonDadda59]

I disagree. It's an overrated performance and gets talked about all the time. Most of those blocks were simply sending back the little floaters and hooks of 6'8 Kenyon Martin. Which is valuable, but his blocks from those games are still inflated. It's not like he was sending back Kobe or MJ at the rim. Or intimidating on the level of Shaq. The fact that Kmart kept trying to shoot over him proves that TD wasn't having a team-wide impact on the Nets defensively on the level of a Shaq.

Duncan's a great player but the stats from that game are inflated. And 21 points from a #1 offensive option is not a lot. The 20 rebounds are also inflated.

He did a great job moving the ball though.

But any given Finals performance of MJ or Shaq crushes this in terms of impact.

What the hell do you mean by 'inflated'? :biggums:

And it's funny how you seem to be ragging on Tim for beating the Nets while propping up Shaq who played the same team a year earlier in the finals.

[20Four]

Lebron is at the front door and he wants answers.
Why do you vicariously live through leBRONZE? Does your life suck that much? Go outside and socialize make at least your first real friend....

[Kblaze8855]

Thats what I mean. Its said all the time without making sense.

If you are talking point guard assists in the 80s west....bigman rebounds in the 60s....you can say they are inflated beyond what they would be in most other times due to the style played.

But a single game performance in 2003? Every game...series...season...has factors that will never repeat. You deal with them as best you can....you cant judge it by any other standard. What...his blocks are inflated because he if played a team that shot a lot of threes he wouldnt have blocked so many?

It just doesnt make sense.

What is it inflated compared to?

How are rebounds...inflated....when they play that slowly? These teams were walking it up and slowing the game to a crawl. They shot poorly but thats more than offset by how much slower they played than some other eras.

There were 97 missed shots that game. There have been games with 150. So what is it inflated compared to?

Someone looking at all time finals game missed shot averages?

He helped play great D...forced msised...grabbed the boards.

Thats not inflated stats. Thats winning basketball leading to good looking numbers.

[GrapeApe]

Shaq had a game in the finals where he missed like 20 FT's and still put up 40/25. Even if he had hit half of them, a 50/25 game (on less than 20 fg attempts) would probably have been the best finals game ever.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

:applause:

The only thing that prevented him from finishing with a quadruple double was a poor scorekeeper who missed a pair of blocks. (https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/37z2ao/tim_duncans_quadrupledouble_game_6_in_the_2003/)

[rmt]

What the hell do you mean by 'inflated'? :biggums:

And it's funny how you seem to be ragging on Tim for beating the Nets while propping up Shaq who played the same team a year earlier in the finals.

Yep. Double standard - they don't bring up that the Lakers were playing against the Nets team less one whole year and playoffs experience. When it's the Spurs playing that same team with more experience, they're weak competition.

And game 6, Finals 03, Duncan had a 72 DRtg.

[tmacattack33]

I disagree. It's an overrated performance and gets talked about all the time. Most of those blocks were simply sending back the little floaters and hooks of 6'8 Kenyon Martin. Which is valuable, but his blocks from those games are still inflated. It's not like he was sending back Kobe or MJ at the rim. Or intimidating on the level of Shaq. The fact that Kmart kept trying to shoot over him proves that TD wasn't having a team-wide impact on the Nets defensively on the level of a Shaq.

Duncan's a great player but the stats from that game are inflated. And 21 points from a #1 offensive option is not a lot. The 20 rebounds are also inflated.

He did a great job moving the ball though.

But any given Finals performance of MJ or Shaq crushes this in terms of impact.

K-Mart was one of the Nets best scorers. Not sure how shutting down one of your opponents best scorers can be considered "inflated".

[T_L_P]

Why choose that when you can have 28 points, 20 rebounds, 9 assists, and 8 blocks.

Because Duncan held Kenyon Martin to one of the worst Playoff outings ever (3-24 shooting).

Shaq obviously played great help D, but Duncan's defense was on another level.

[T_L_P]

I disagree. It's an overrated performance and gets talked about all the time. Most of those blocks were simply sending back the little floaters and hooks of 6'8 Kenyon Martin. Which is valuable, but his blocks from those games are still inflated. It's not like he was sending back Kobe or MJ at the rim. Or intimidating on the level of Shaq. The fact that Kmart kept trying to shoot over him proves that TD wasn't having a team-wide impact on the Nets defensively on the level of a Shaq.

Duncan's a great player but the stats from that game are inflated. And 21 points from a #1 offensive option is not a lot. The 20 rebounds are also inflated.

He did a great job moving the ball though.

But any given Finals performance of MJ or Shaq crushes this in terms of impact.


Dikembe, who Shaq was guarding in 01 Finals, attempted 12 FGA/G against him that series, compared to a much lower 8.3 in the Regular Season, and 8.5 in the three previous Playoff rounds. And he was converting those FGs at a 60% rate (compared to a 45% rate in the previous three rounds).

Yeah, Shaq was mean-mugging teams into not shooting the ball at all. :oldlol:

Another one: K-Mart averaged 19 FGA/G in the 02 Finals, vs 17 FGA/G in the 03 Finals.


The fact that Kmart kept trying to shoot over him proves that TD wasn't having a team-wide impact on the Nets defensively on the level of a Shaq.

Really? :facepalm

[Marchesk]

Elgin Baylor had 61/22 in game 5 finals in Boston.

[JimmyMcAdocious]

I'll still take 42/15/7

I think Walton had close to a quaddub in his one year. AI's 48.

[Sarcastic]

Elgin Baylor had 61/22 in game 5 finals in Boston.


/THREAD

[jlip]

I'll still take 42/15/7

I think Walton had close to a quaddub in his one year. AI's 48.

Yep. Walton had something like 20pts 23rbs 7asts 8blks in the title clinching game.

[BuffaloBill]

:applause:

The only thing that prevented him from finishing with a quadruple double was a poor scorekeeper who missed a pair of blocks. (https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/37z2ao/tim_duncans_quadrupledouble_game_6_in_the_2003/)



Only playoff quad double ever, and it was to closeout the finals :applause:


Duncan ripped through Nash, Dirk, Kobe, Shaq, Kidd, Marion, etc. whoever else that year while being the only all star on his team. Easily one of the best playoff performances of all time

[LAZERUSS]

Only playoff quad double ever, and it was to closeout the finals :applause:


Duncan ripped through Nash, Dirk, Kobe, Shaq, Kidd, Marion, etc. whoever else that year while being the only all star on his team. Easily one of the best playoff performances of all time

Wilt has a known THREE (and really, the number is likely considerably higher.)

In the '67 EDF's (and against Russell), he hung a known 24-32-13-12.

In the '67 Finals (and against Thurmond), he hung a known 10-38-10-10.

And in the first round of the '70 playoffs, he had a known 12-26-11-10 game.

He also had a 16-30-19 game in the first round of the '67 playoffs, but there are estimates of as high as 20 blocks.

[Naero]

This doesn't even outstrip his Game 1 performance of the same series (http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200306040SAS.html), where he scored much more prolifically and efficiently. It's just not as vaunted about because he didn't notch the four-extra assists needed to register a triple-double, and thus he didn't flirt as intimately with a quadruple-double to one less block as well.

Triple-doubles, while they can definitely be mathematized with a strong correlation to impressive performances on-average, are one of the most overrated stats to me, and the OP's question is a testament to why; they are treated as an on-paper phenomenon, despite how meeting the threshold of a triple-double (10 points on shaky shooting efficience, 10 rebounds when outsizing everyone else on the court, and 10 assists with a shaky assist-to-turnover ratio, for example) doesn't categorically indicate that one's all-around performance is ultra-effective.

[La Frescobaldi]

I disagree. It's an overrated performance and gets talked about all the time. Most of those blocks were simply sending back the little floaters and hooks of 6'8 Kenyon Martin. Which is valuable, but his blocks from those games are still inflated. It's not like he was sending back Kobe or MJ at the rim. Or intimidating on the level of Shaq. The fact that Kmart kept trying to shoot over him proves that TD wasn't having a team-wide impact on the Nets defensively on the level of a Shaq.

Duncan's a great player but the stats from that game are inflated. And 21 points from a #1 offensive option is not a lot. The 20 rebounds are also inflated.

He did a great job moving the ball though.

But any given Finals performance of MJ or Shaq crushes this in terms of impact.
i jerked back from the computer screen so hard I smashed a coffee cup.

Reading that total sh!t .
right now I feel like you should buy me a f*cking coffee cup

[Spurs5Rings2014]

:applause:

The only thing that prevented him from finishing with a quadruple double was a poor scorekeeper who missed a pair of blocks. (https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/37z2ao/tim_duncans_quadrupledouble_game_6_in_the_2003/)

GOAT gonna GOAT.

:bowdown:

[90sgoat]

K-Mart was one of the Nets best scorers. Not sure how shutting down one of your opponents best scorers can be considered "inflated".

K-Mart had as much offensive game as Deandre Jordan, probably less, which with Jason Kidd meant catching lobs or open dunks. Go back and watch some games with those Net teams, K-Mart was atrocious when he had to make a move himself. Those teams in general were horrible outside Kidd, quite possible the worst supporting cast in the finals ever. Richard Jefferson, glorified 6th man player. Big Gay Collins, who I remember swearing at for being such a complete wuss despite his almost 7 foot size. Those Nets teams sucked bad and it was only because of Kidd their players looked even barely useful.

[Pointguard]

I think the numbers are great but if you watch that game it wasn't like you walked away going wow like some of Hakeem's games, or Shaq's nevermind Magic or Jordan's finals games. I definitely felt bigger games from Duncan in the playoffs himself. The refs just didn't let Kenyan guard Tim. He got his usual two early fouls and the game was a cakewalk for Tim thereafter.

[Pointguard]

K-Mart had as much offensive game as Deandre Jordan, probably less, which with Jason Kidd meant catching lobs or open dunks. Go back and watch some games with those Net teams, K-Mart was atrocious when he had to make a move himself. Those teams in general were horrible outside Kidd, quite possible the worst supporting cast in the finals ever. Richard Jefferson, glorified 6th man player. Big Gay Collins, who I remember swearing at for being such a complete wuss despite his almost 7 foot size. Those Nets teams sucked bad and it was only because of Kidd their players looked even barely useful.
They were a last place team the year before and they looked every part of it. Kidd was amazing in getting a bad bunch to play together and win like they did. But once the refs made it clear that they couldn't play East coast style, Kmart got his fouls good and quick, it was a deaf sentence right there. It was an ugly series, the ugliest I ever seen. Offense sucked on both sides. So I understand it getting overlooked.

[Clifton]

K-Mart was one of the Nets best scorers. Not sure how shutting down one of your opponents best scorers can be considered "inflated".
Martin was primarily an off-ball scorer. The Spurs' team defense, which I agree was anchored by Duncan, took away a lot of the Nets' off-ball scoring. This forced a frustrated Kenyon Martin to try to play a level of basketball of which he was not capable: that is, going head-to-head against a top-10 all-time-great in the Finals. I applaud him for trying. But his weak floaters and weak putbacks that he tried to will into the basket because there was no one to pass to, being blocked, yes *inflate* Duncan's block stats. If the Nets were a team worthy of the Finals, those would have never been shot. He would have passed to someone who can score in an iso situation. Duncan's statline would have been 21/20/10 with a solid but human-looking block total, and nobody would be comparing that game with any of the dozens of 35+ point dominant performances routinely put up by Shaq and Jordan in the Finals against better teams.

That is all I am saying, and all I mean by "inflated." They look better than the truth of the game proves, when you watch it.

I am merely distinguishing a top-10 all-time Finals performer from a top-3 all-time Finals performer. That's all. I love Duncan. I believe in Duncan. But while this was a signature performance of an all-time great, it was not among the very greatest performances on that stage.

[Clifton]

I want to emphasize that this was what I was responding to:

Goat finals performance of all time?
Everything I said should be read in that light. GOAT means greatest of all time. It was not. But if Duncan did this on a team that wasn't as good, against a team that was much better than the Nets, it would have been a different performance. It wouldn't be "inflated." I still think my word choice is accurate.

The way Duncan scored at the right times, and snapped up rebounds with authority, and moved the ball, and anchored the defense, was masterful. But it was not GOAT. The GOAT Finals performers are Shaq and Jordan (and others, but I'm thinking modern era). If you want the GOAT Finals performances, look there.

I will add that there are many Duncan games that don't have such an eye-popping, near quad-double stats, that were just as good.

[T_L_P]

Martin was primarily an off-ball scorer. The Spurs' team defense, which I agree was anchored by Duncan, took away a lot of the Nets' off-ball scoring. This forced a frustrated Kenyon Martin to try to play a level of basketball of which he was not capable: that is, going head-to-head against a top-10 all-time-great in the Finals. I applaud him for trying. But his weak floaters and weak putbacks that he tried to will into the basket because there was no one to pass to, being blocked, yes *inflate* Duncan's block stats. If the Nets were a team worthy of the Finals, those would have never been shot. He would have passed to someone who can score in an iso situation. Duncan's statline would have been 21/20/10 with a solid but human-looking block total, and nobody would be comparing that game with any of the dozens of 35+ point dominant performances routinely put up by Shaq and Jordan in the Finals against better teams.

That is all I am saying, and all I mean by "inflated." They look better than the truth of the game proves, when you watch it.

I am merely distinguishing a top-10 all-time Finals performer from a top-3 all-time Finals performer. That's all. I love Duncan. I believe in Duncan. But while this was a signature performance of an all-time great, it was not among the very greatest performances on that stage.

Duncan also has the greatest GameScore in a Finals game ever with his game 1 performance, 32/20/6/3/7 on .700 TS%, 145 ORtg / 78 DRtg.

[Stout]

Goat finals performance of all time?

In the modern era, yes. :applause:

[KnittingRyu]

Individual numbers mean little without context. I can show you a guy who had 30 points who actually hurt the team because his shots came at the expense of the offense and show you a guy who had 12/5/5 and contributed mightily because he played the game the right way and made the correct basketball play almost everytime.

Luckily for Duncan, the context helps his case. It isn't the best Finals performance, but it is clearly up there.

[Coach Eddie]

Prime Duncan gets way underrated on ISH.

[Spurs5Rings2014]

Prime Duncan gets way underrated on ISH.

Agreed. He's easily top 5 all time.

[Naero]

Prime Duncan gets way underrated on ISH.

His peak has always been constrained, due to Gregg Popovich's minutes-conservative approach in the regular season, as well as the divvy-up of ball-movement on the team; those inhibitors always kept Tim Duncan somewhat aloof to full-throttle production, but that preservationism is also what lent into his remarkable longevity.

He's in a great position to win his sixth ring, however, and doing so would vault him into exclusive company in players who have won six rings as the first- or second-best player on the team; and unlike Scottie Pippen who falls strictly into the second-fiddle category, any teammate of Duncan's that outplayed him has only done so insubstantially at best

[AboutBuckets]

His peak has always been constrained, due to Gregg Popovich's minutes-conservative approach in the regular season, as well as the divvy-up of ball-movement on the team; those inhibitors always kept Tim Duncan somewhat aloof to full-throttle production


Not to rain on your parade, because I agree with most of what you said, but the early Spurs played Timmy about 39-40 minutes per game (and more in the postseason) and ran the bulk of their offense through him in the post. It wasn't until 2009 that he averaged less than ~34 minutes per game, and still a couple years after until they made the switch to the more fluid offense that we see from them today.

[Kblaze8855]

So a block total is now "inflated" because the person blocking them was routinely challenged possibly unwisely.....

When has anyone blocked a ridiculous number of shots when the people taking them and the offense they ran wasn't partly to blame? how could it not be? the offense feeling they can score over you and you proving otherwise is what happens every time a shot gets blocked.

if you can routinely block an all star big mans shot that doesn't mean your blocks are inflated that means you're incredibly good at blocking shots.

A bad shot blocker wouldn't have blocked them. Tim Duncan is one of the greatest defensive players of all time. The reason he blocked so many shots is because of that fact. not because he was guarding Kenyon Martin.

not that any of that matters because even if it was foolishness on Kenyons part and him being an inept offensive player that wouldn't mean the blocks are inflated. Big men have been blocking shots of people who are hopelessly outmatched in the situation since the beginning of the game.

What does a block only count if it's Shawn Kemp taking off from the dotted line trying to throw it down in your face? most blocks are people taking a shot they shouldn't have. If it were a great shot it probably wouldn't be blocked in the first place.

the only situation I can see saying a number of blocks is inflated is if somehow the other team is running so much they take way more shots than usual and you didn't have to block an unusual number of the shots by percentage just get an unusual number of chances.

But this was exactly the opposite.

I'm not seeing any room to reasonably denigrate his performance. You don't have to think its greater than such and such. But I see nothing rational anyone could say to down play it.

he did it all and won his team the title. What his stat line would look like in a hypothetical situation where he didn't block so many shots is irrelevant.

if we are going to play the "if" game we can make any performance worse than it was in reality.

[swagga]

Prime Duncan gets way underrated on ISH.

prime duncan:
- doesn't monkey around
- doesn't show his dick live on tv
- didn't rape a white girl
- didn't got his dad killed over gambling
- is a true professional
hence he isn't popular with the 12 yo crowd that have 50 accounts on ish or with the agenda trolls.

people forget how he almost single handedly either beat or gave the shaq-kobe lakers everything they could handle.