With all considerable due respect to Doc...he had no business guarding Skywalker.

[Kblaze8855]

Doctor J could play defense when he felt like it...and maybe he got up a bit for this matchup and felt he could slow David with his superior strength and good quickness for his size.....

Kinda like if Lebron guarded prime Wade. Similar matchup id say. Not ideal..but you would respect Bron for taking on the challenge. And I respect Doc for it....





But in what would become a bit of a theme he squares up and blows by off the first step...

http://fat.gfycat.com/PessimisticShorttermBluebottlejellyfish.gif













A moment later he makes Doc respect the jumper and takes a brief moment to prove that when you dont box out you get your feelings hurt:





http://giant.gfycat.com/SoftPersonalGyrfalcon.gif


















He then shows him the high vertical pullup jumper....and lets him know feelings are also hurt when you ball watch and let your man go back door...finally Doc gets blown by off the first step again and just throws his hands up in frustration and bails as David gets the and 1.



http://giant.gfycat.com/OrderlyOfficialKarakul.gif











He had 42 points but the 76ers won the final game in ABA history. Doc did of course own that series...and outplay Thompson generally....though he didnt score in that games 4th quarter as "Super" John Williamson brought it home for the title. Doc did average 38/14/5 for the series and win MVP so dont take this topic to mean Doc got owned....just that young DT gave him some hell on the way.




David was a rookie then though and Doc was the talk of the sports world...a superstar too big to have scouted some upstart. Maybe Doc needed a while to adjust to his approach and figure him out. Here they are playing later in the NBA...lets see how Doc has adjusted....




























http://giant.gfycat.com/BigDelectableHoopoe.gif




Oh.

Perhaps Doc was just out of element. Or perhaps all this is why Jordan chose David Thompson to induct him into the HOF.


Love you Doc but on this one....I attach the stone of shame:

http://www.hwdyk.com/q/images/homerthegreat_10.jpg

[HighFlyer23]

Nobody cares

[Kblaze8855]

Feel free to go discuss version 4,876 of Lebron vs Kobe and Jordan. nobody is stopping you.

[OldSchoolBBall]

Thompson is definitely overlooked when talking about all-time greats. I feel like a lot of people would lump him in with guys like Andrew Toney and Walter Davis, when he was clearly better than those guys. Thompson is also the only player I've seen who had the same "type" of first step as Jordan - I don't mean just the speed of the first step, but the length of it and the "wirey", springy nature of the step. Hard to explain.

[Kblaze8855]

It is hard to explain but its easy to see.

Combo of the modern athletic ability with the old school style triple threat involving more ball fakes and jab steps and rarely going into any kind of sizeup dribbling. Just get you the least bit off balance and explode.

He was unusually explosive. Not just high jumping. Plenty of guys who can jump like him never seem to finish dunks off a stand still in traffic. Dude is 6'4'' or so doing standing dunks like a center.

Steve Francis could jump like David...but he didnt seem to do it so easily.

Hard to put into words.

Be impossible to track but I bet hes the all time leader in under the basket dunks for all players 6'5'' and under...unless you count Barkley. Barkley did a lot of those go straight up and baaaaaarely get high enough dunks.

[Kblaze8855]

Oh and on this...



Thompson is definitely overlooked when talking about all-time greats. I feel like a lot of people would lump him in with guys like Andrew Toney and Walter Davis, when he was clearly better than those guys.


Id say hes perhaps the best example of the difference between greatness and ability. He was in many peoples eyes as good as anyone in basketball....but he didnt really accomplish anything before the drugs and all took him out.

Paul Westphal and Gus Williams in a way as well. Not in accomplishments...but more recognition. If people dont remember you how good you were doesnt matter.

David was out there having 53 point halves on 21-23 shooting and even bigtime basketball fans barely know who he is. He was likely better than a lot of people he might not be....greater than.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Nice gifs and analysis :applause:

David Thompson gets underrated/overlooked nowadays... He had poor longevity and didn't really maximize his talents due to injuries and drugs, yes, but at his best he proved just how great he was, especially at putting the ball through the hoop; dude was a sick athlete with them very fast twitch muscles, had a good, quick jumper, killer 1st step, major finisher, just a great scorer...

Skywalker just a really hard cover for anyone, and Doc could play m2m defense but his strength, defensively, resided on his off-ball D, one of the best at that.

And Doc was also killing David when he was guarded by him on the other end, tbh.
Bobby Jones was the one guarding Erving the most but he was their best defender at every facet, so when Julius got the right entry pass to get away from Bobby, they really didn't have no one else to protect the rim at high level. However, they also didn't have no one else to guard Dr J as well, a dude like Thompson couldn't deal with his size/strength+skill.

[Kblaze8855]

I dont think anyone to ever play would have really stopped that version of Doc. He didnt play a traditional bigtime scorers game. Not the way we see it now at least. He wasnt so much one on one attacking as so overwhelming when he decided to get to the paint quickly off a catch or in the open floor. A guy like Bruce Bowen would have been wasted.

Doc getting to his spot catching turning and exploding...hes effective vs anyone ever. If hes running...you might as well not be there.

He could score one on one...and he proved it many times...but that wasnt why he couldnt be stopped.

David had some(though less) of Docs open floor game but a lot more one on one game.

He really looks like an old school no weight training prime Wade. Weaker...but arguably quicker.

[Dr.J4ever]

It's hard for me to comment on Doc pre-1980 because most of my knowledge on him came from books or You Tube, but I can tell you what Philly writers said about him.

It is pretty much known in Philly during that time that Doc got torched by many NBA SFs in late 70s, even though it pains me to say that. But the good news is that Doc improved tremendously as an individual defender with his fundamentals as he grew older from 1980 to 1985. I was particularly proud of Doc in a 5 game loss to the Celtics in the 1985 ECF where he guarded Bird and did as good a job with Bird as I've seen anyone do.

It surprises me that some observers would say Doc was a prime time defender in the ABA because it would contradict the narrative in Philly . Giffs like Kblaze provided doesn't surprise me at all, and it fits the facts as I knew them at the time.

Now Shaq is right, Doc was always a very good team defender, and his work on powerful 76er teams during the early 80s prove it. Doc was never substituted in late game situations for those great defensive teams. He was integral for Philly's success defensively.

So there.

[AirFederer]

I dont think anyone to ever play would have really stopped that version of Doc. He didnt play a traditional bigtime scorers game. Not the way we see it now at least. He wasnt so much one on one attacking as so overwhelming when he decided to get to the paint quickly off a catch or in the open floor. A guy like Bruce Bowen would have been wasted.

Doc getting to his spot catching turning and exploding...hes effective vs anyone ever. If hes running...you might as well not be there.

He could score one on one...and he proved it many times...but that wasnt why he couldnt be stopped.

David had some(though less) of Docs open floor game but a lot more one on one game.

He really looks like an old school no weight training prime Wade. Weaker...but arguably quicker.

Yeah

https://i.imgflip.com/qoyjj.gif (https://imgflip.com/gif/qoyjj)

[Asukal]

Jordan copied from this guy. The movement is identical. :applause:

[warriorfan]

...



Good post from op

Only thing I would like to add though is you are right, Dr J had no business guarding Skywalker but Thompson was a true SG and Dr J was a large SF. Dr J just didn't have the foodspeed to keep up with the wirey Thompson and was put on skates most of the time because of it. I thought your description of how Dr J was getting his points were accurate. When I have watched Dr J ABA games it looks like he is one of the bigger guys on the floor and plays SF like a PF at times.

[90sgoat]

Doc seemed like a once in a generation talent not given enough credit. I've seen his documentary and the guy was a real class act with intelligence and good manners. People rip on Kobe for taking after MJs mannerisms, but the casual, intelligent and articulated way that MJ dealt with the media can be seen in Doc.

[Marchesk]

Nobody cares

How many alts do you have, Jameer?

[DoctorP]

Any vids you can recommend on Thompson?

[sportjames23]

Jordan copied from this guy. The movement is identical. :applause:


Contrary to what many believe, MJ said that Thompson was his idol growing up, not Dr. J. MJ said he never got to see any NBA games when he was a kid (hell, the Finals were on tape delay up until the early to mid-1980s, and there was no internet nor 500+ TV channels like we have today--I'm old enough to remember when HBO was a luxury) and David Thompson was a legend in ACC country. So MJ patterned his game after him, not Doc.

[tpols]

Doc seemed like a once in a generation talent not given enough credit. I've seen his documentary and the guy was a real class act with intelligence and good manners. People rip on Kobe for taking after MJs mannerisms, but the casual, intelligent and articulated way that MJ dealt with the media can be seen in Doc.

word. every video ive ever seen of mj in practice or in game he's yelling, and showboating, being super cocky and assholish, but then in every interview hes this articulate, very well mannered professional.. giving nice political answers and a soft appearance

[sportjames23]

word. every video ive ever seen of mj in practice or in game he's yelling, and showboating, being super cocky and assholish, but then in every interview hes this articulate, very well mannered professional.. giving nice political answers and a soft appearance


So that's where Kobe got that from!

[tpols]

So that's where Kobe got that from!

lol.. kobe's been known to generally speak what he feels, almost to a foolish/gets him in trouble extent

[Kblaze8855]

Any vids you can recommend on Thompson?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJZaULiWf-4

Whole DVD

[ClipperRevival]

Good thread. A welcome from the agenda driven Kobe vs LeBron vs MJ threads. :facepalm

And yeah, i actually watched MJ's Hall of Fame enshrinement speech the other day and David Thompson was the guy who introduced. Never saw him play live but i know from heresay and vidoes that he was one of the THE most athletic freaks the game has ever seen.

[90sgoat]

word. every video ive ever seen of mj in practice or in game he's yelling, and showboating, being super cocky and assholish, but then in every interview hes this articulate, very well mannered professional.. giving nice political answers and a soft appearance

He knew how to talk to the media, I fail to see how that was a bad thing.

Jordan was popular, not least because his persona on screen resonated with almost everyone, of all races, all income and educational levels, all countries.

A lot of stars just don't get that exposure because they don't understand the need to fit in to a 'global gentleman' standard.

Jordan was Muhammed Ali, Lebron is Sonny Liston.

[Kblaze8855]

Ive always wondered if Dctor J is the source of the whole "The game of basketball...." thing. Doc...Jordan...Kobe...Lebron. I think Grant Hill in the 90s. Whoever the major swingman of the time is...has said "The game of basketball...." since Doc and no normal person has said it...ever.

[bizil]

Thompson is definitely overlooked when talking about all-time greats. I feel like a lot of people would lump him in with guys like Andrew Toney and Walter Davis, when he was clearly better than those guys. Thompson is also the only player I've seen who had the same "type" of first step as Jordan - I don't mean just the speed of the first step, but the length of it and the "wirey", springy nature of the step. Hard to explain.

Peak wise, Thompson has a great case as a top 10 SG of all time. He totally redefined the SG position. I've always thought D Wade is a mix of Thompson and Sidney Moncrief. At 6'4, he had the freakish athletic ability and alpha dog scoring of Thompson. But he also had the great all around ability of Moncrief. Thompson at his best was more on the level of guys like Gervin and Maravich. Which is CLEARLY a cut above guys like Davis and Toney.

[SamuraiSWISH]

lol.. kobe's been known to generally speak what he feels, almost to a foolish/gets him in trouble extent
Not until a few years after the rape case. When he just said forget it. Majority endorsements were lost. Media now disliked him. And his rep was in the gutter.

Which lasted until about 2008. Namely why he had such shockingly few MVP votes in his peak seasons ability wise in 2006 and 2007.

Before that he was just as polished a speaker and public image as MJ, Hill, Magic, and Doc before him.

BTW Doc's lateral speed and man defensive skills are atrocious. His knees won't allow him to get low enough, poor anticipation skills, not a quick jumper, and just concrete feet moving laterally. Poor on ball defender. He relies exclusively on the length of his arms.

Often why smaller combo guard size players are more frustrating for big time scorers to compete with ... they're big enough to not get bulldozed. But fast enough laterally to shut down dribble penetration that the longer albeit slower guys can't.

[La Frescobaldi]

Nobody could guard Thompson in his days. Nobody at all. I wish I could find a old YouTube clip of him destroying Big Bobby Jones because that was just pure majestic show against one of the all time great defenders. DT ran up 33 or 34 points just in the second half which was what that YouTube was showing see? and Dan Issel was dropping them from outside he had about fifteen himself. Of course Bobby was an old Nugget teammate so they had a lot of time on the courts.
Anyhow that was a great combo right there, you couldn't really double team either one of those guys, you'd just get creamed.

Thompson's problem, which they never did really solve, was stamina. They tried everything, (and when I say they, this was Larry Brown himself, a HoF coach) tried sitting him the 3q, tried sitting him 2q, they tried 4q extended rests.... they tried standing him off the block about 8 feet and running the offense without him, using Chuck Williams- and later on Brian T - to Issel outside-inside but nothing ever really answered.

He would always go too darn hard and bonk out.