Why couldn't Wade lead his 2 other Superstars to a 2011 title?

[Hey Yo]

Wade and the Heat were the favorites.

Yet Wade made the other 2 superstars worse in the Finals compared to their stats the year before.

Good thing he came to his senses and turned the team over to LeBron later that summer.... which lead to B2B TITLES.

[KembaWalker]

http://i.imgur.com/pmktzFF.jpg

Might wanna blame his sidekick's sidekick

[dubeta]

Same reason he got swept in the 1st round as defending champs back in 07


He's just not that good :confusedshrug:

[PJR]

http://youtu.be/sFe8KUEQdn4

[kennethgriffin]

because lebron refused to contribute. standing in the opposite corner hiding.

basically forcing wade and the heat to go 4 on 5


/thread

[Hey Yo]

http://i.imgur.com/pmktzFF.jpg

Might wanna blame his sidekick's sidekick
Thanks for proving my point.

Wade made his 2 superstars worse.

[WayOfWade]

Same reason he got swept in the 1st round as defending champs back in 07


He's just not that good :confusedshrug:
Then can you explain to me all of the 05' and 06' playoffs?

[Spurs m8]

Because he's an over-rated piece of shit

[warriorfan]

http://i.imgur.com/pmktzFF.jpg

Might wanna blame his sidekick's sidekick

that moment when you get outscored by jason terry...

[TheMarkMadsen]

that moment when you get outscored by jason terry...

that moment when Deshawn Stevenson punks you in the finals

[Wade's Rings]

This makes me wonder why Bron couldn't lead his team over the 2009 Magic like Wade lead his team over the 2006 Mavs.

[GoatBoy]

http://youtu.be/sFe8KUEQdn4

That flop tho :roll:

[sportjames23]

http://i.imgur.com/pmktzFF.jpg

Might wanna blame his sidekick's sidekick


Don't do 'em like that, bruh. :oldlol:

[AnaheimLakers24]

His best teamate has a small dick so he was basically on his own.

[Showtime2001]

This is why.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FuYJ1U2YZ8

[Smoke117]

You are just being obnoxious now...we get it...us that aren't morons. This forum is bullshit...you going out of your way to troll it just makes you pathetic too, bro.

[FreezingTsmoove]

Lebron bricked them out of a 4th quarter lead in game 2. Wade helped but Lebron famously went from the chosen one to the froZen one in the 4th qtr game 2

[Gileraracer]

James choked hard that Playoffs. 17.8ppg in 43mpg while the Jet hat 18.0 in 32mpg? :lol :lol :lol

[GoatBoy]

Just because it was Wade's team in 2011 doesn't give Lebron an excuse to stand in the corner and totally forget how to play basketball in the fourth quarter especially.

[DaSeba5]

LeBron choked that series away. That's all there is to it. If he played at least average to his standards, they probably win. He shit the bed big time.

[FKAri]

http://i1090.photobucket.com/albums/i366/sportlistikz/0603_mavsART_GCL19GEL010603_mavs_dirkstandalonepro d_affiliate58.jpg

[sd3035]

Wade already beat the Mavs by himself

This was supposed to be Lebaldo's year, but he put on one of the biggest chokejobs the sports world has even seen (huge fan btw)

[chips93]

Thanks for proving my point.

Wade made his 2 superstars worse.

superstars should allow their teammates to 'make them worse'

lebron choked, accept it and move on, the rest of the world has

[JT123]

Because Wade is overrated. :confusedshrug:
His stans wanna act like he's an ATG, but what other ATG would get a pass for losing a series in which he had 2 sidekicks averaging 18 ppg? Serious question.

[imdaman99]

Well, when your teammate sabotages the series and goes hollowman...

[97 bulls]

Because Wade is overrated. :confusedshrug:
His stans wanna act like he's an ATG, but what other ATG would get a pass for losing a series in which he had 2 sidekicks averaging 18 ppg? Serious question.
I've been saying this for the longest. I've never seen a guy get sk much credit for three frggn games. What Wade did in 06 was a fluke. 2011 shows it.

Besides. It wasn't the Heats offense, it was their defense. They just couldn't stop Terry and Berea down the stretch of games. Why didn't Wade assume one of those assignments?????? I've had a Heat fan say it was Spoelstras fault. Which is a copout. Wade could've demanded to check one of those guys.

[Wade's Rings]

I've been saying this for the longest. I've never seen a guy get sk much credit for three frggn games. What Wade did in 06 was a fluke. 2011 shows it.

Besides. It wasn't the Heats offense, it was their defense. They just couldn't stop Terry and Berea down the stretch of games. Why didn't Wade assume one of those assignments?????? I've had a Heat fan say it was Spoelstras fault. Which is a copout. Wade could've demanded to check one of those guys.

:biggums: :oldlol:

I agree on the 2nd Paragraph. I have no idea why he never picked up Terry. IIRC he had stretches where he picked up Barrea.

[97 bulls]

:biggums: :oldlol:

I agree on the 2nd Paragraph. I have no idea why he never picked up Terry. IIRC he had stretches where he picked up Barrea.
I guess fluke is kinda harsh. My point is look at his whole body of work. Some of you guys compare him to Jordan based on three games in 2006. I find that over rating him.

[Wade's Rings]

I guess fluke is kinda harsh. My point is look at his whole body of work. Some of you guys compare him to Jordan based on three games in 2006. I find that over rating him.

His 2009 Season is an amazing Season and he was performing at an All-Time Great level through the 1st 4 Games of the 2011 Finals. He also played great vs Elite Defenses. In terms of play style they are GOAT tier slashers. Those are where I believe the Jordan comparisons stem from.

[97 bulls]

His 2009 Season is an amazing Season and he was performing at an All-Time Great level through the 1st 4 Games of the 2011 Finals. He also played great vs Elite Defenses. In terms of play style they are GOAT tier slashers. Those are where I believe the Jordan comparisons stem from.
Lol. But they lost the 11 finals as the the favorite. And truth be told. What James and Bosh did as second and third options were pretty damn good to be honest. They also lost in 2007 in the first round even though they were favored. For as great as you wanna make 2009 seem, they won 43 games in arguably the worst conference ever. Hell Nate Archibald led the league in scoring and assists. You know why its rarely discussed? Because his team sucked

[Nash]

whatever you want to call lebron, he was a 2nd/3rd option putting up 18/7/7

[Wade's Rings]

Lol. But they lost the 11 finals as the the favorite. And truth be told. What James and Bosh did as second and third options were pretty damn good to be honest.

Maybe through the 1st 3 Quarters but in the 4th Bron was a no show.


They also lost in 2007 in the first round even though they were favored.

So we're going to act like Wade wasn't hurt.


For as great as you wanna make 2009 seem, they won 43 games in arguably the worst conference ever.

:wtf: 2009 was the only year the East had a winning record against the West this Century. The East also had 3 Contenders until Garnett's Knee injury.

[Vaniiiia]

whatever you want to call lebron, he was a 2nd/3rd option putting up 18/7/7
Kobe won a title averaging 16 points on 36%.

And his stans actually count it...

:roll: :roll: :roll:

#carried

[Hey Yo]

whatever you want to call lebron, he was a 2nd/3rd option putting up 18/7/7
In which he probably hasn't been since his Freshman year in H.S.

Now all of a sudden (15yrs later) he's expected (and agreed to) to take the gas off the pedal and adapt the same role in the NBA Finals for the sake of Wade?

[dubeta]

LOL 3 pages in and still noone can answer the thread :lol


Two 18 point 7 rebound teammates >> most championship supporting casts

[Wade's Rings]

In which he probably hasn't been since his Freshman year in H.S.

Now all of a sudden (15yrs later) he's expected (and agreed to) to take the gas off the pedal and adapt the same role in the NBA Finals for the sake of Wade?

I called you out on your contradictions and you went ghost :oldlol:

[Hey Yo]

I called you out on your contradictions and you went ghost :oldlol:
I answered your questions and you kept spinning the wheel until it stopped on:




FAIL

[Wade's Rings]

I answered your questions and you kept spinning the wheel until it stopped on:




FAIL

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=385502&page=3

:sleeping

[JT123]

In which he probably hasn't been since his Freshman year in H.S.

Now all of a sudden (15yrs later) he's expected (and agreed to) to take the gas off the pedal and adapt the same role in the NBA Finals for the sake of Wade?
Lebron is just too unselfish of a teammate for his own good. Thankfully he figured out that Wade wasn't good enough to be the leader of the Heatles, so he took charge the next year.
But in all honesty Wade winning FMVP wouldn't have felt right after Lebron had carried the team all season. It would have allowed folks to spin a false narrative about how Bron needed to be carried to his first ring. In the end everything worked out for the best imo :confusedshrug:

[JT123]

LOL 3 pages in and still noone can answer the thread :lol


Two 18 point 7 rebound teammates >> most championship supporting casts
Wade is literally the ONLY player in NBA history who gets a pass for losing the Finals with 2 teammates giving him that kind of production. :oldlol:

[Hey Yo]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=385502&page=3

:sleeping
linking me to a post by 3ball?

[dubeta]

Wade is literally the ONLY player in NBA history who gets a pass for losing the Finals with 2 teammates giving him that kind of production. :oldlol:

:lol :oldlol:


Furthermore noone cares that he:

- Got swept in the 1st round as defending champs (2007)

- Won 15 games and missed the playoffs in the middle of his prime (2008)

-Won 42 games and flamed out against Atlanta, again in the 1st round (2009)

- Lost again in the 1st round (2010)


And theres seriously ppl on these forums who argue him as a top 30 player of all time :roll:


Pippen and Gasol > Wade overall

[Wade's Rings]

linking me to a post by 3ball?

Scroll down to the last post on that page.

[chips93]

whatever you want to call lebron, he was a 2nd/3rd option putting up 18/7/7

for the amount of time he had the ball in his hands, those numbers arent very impressive

[JT123]

:lol :oldlol:


Furthermore noone cares that he:

- Got swept in the 1st round as defending champs (2007)

- Won 15 games and missed the playoffs in the middle of his prime (2008)

-Won 42 games and flamed out against Atlanta, again in the 1st round (2009)

- Lost again in the 1st round (2010)


And theres seriously ppl on these forums who argue him as a top 30 player of all time :roll:


Pippen and Gasol > Wade overall
You speak the truth brother. Wade stans wanna claim their boy as a top 3 SG of all time, yet completely ignore the fact that he got swept by Luol fricking Deng the year after winning his first title! :facepalm

[Wade's Rings]

:lol :oldlol:


Furthermore noone cares that he:

- Got swept in the 1st round as defending champs (2007)

- Won 15 games and missed the playoffs in the middle of his prime (2008)

-Won 42 games and flamed out against Atlanta, again in the 1st round (2009)

- Lost again in the 1st round (2010)


And theres seriously ppl on these forums who argue him as a top 30 player of all time :roll:


Pippen and Gasol > Wade overall

-Lebron misses playoffs in his prime (2005)

-Lebron swept (2007)

-Lebron flames out vs Celtics (2008)

-Lebron loses with HCA (2009)

-Lebron loses with HCA (2010)

-Lebron loses with HCA (2011)

This is guy is argued as Top 10 All-Time :roll:

[JT123]

for the amount of time he had the ball in his hands, those numbers arent very impressive
I thought all Bron did was stand in the corner? :rolleyes:
Amazing how Wade stans are always trying to change the story up to suit their agenda's.

[dubeta]

-Lebron misses playoffs in his prime (2005)

-Lebron swept (2007)

-Lebron flames out vs Celtics (2008)

-Lebron loses with HCA (2009)

-Lebron loses with HCA (2010)

-Lebron loses with HCA (2011)

This is guy is argued as Top 10 All-Time :roll:



Wade lost with HCA too in 2011



and lost in the 1st round in 2009 and 2010

and you're right LeBron got swept just like Wade did in 2007


except....


LeBron got swept in the Finals with eric snow as his 2nd option

while Wade...



got swept in the 1st round with Shaq as his 2nd option



:lol

[JT123]

-Lebron misses playoffs in his prime (2005)

-Lebron swept (2007)

-Lebron flames out vs Celtics (2008)

-Lebron loses with HCA (2009)

-Lebron loses with HCA (2010)

-Lebron loses with HCA (2011)

This is guy is argued as Top 10 All-Time :roll:
Lebron has had a 10 year prime? :biggums: :bowdown:

[Wade's Rings]

Wade lost with HCA too in 2011



and lost in the 1st round in 2009 and 2010

and you're right LeBron got swept just like Wade did in 2007


except....


LeBron got swept in the Finals with eric snow as his 2nd option

while Wade...



got swept in the 1st round with Shaq as his 2nd option



:lol

You Bron stans claim Bron was the leader of that team and sadly he lost with HCA for the 3rd straight year

Bron lost with HCA in 2009 & 2010 in 2 series he was favored in :lol

[Hey Yo]

Scroll down to the last post on that page.
you tell me I went ghost....and now expect me to find where???

GTFOH.

quit ducking the question.

[Wade's Rings]

Lebron has had a 10 year prime? :biggums: :bowdown:

Yet he couldn't make the Playoffs :bowdown:

[GrapeApe]

LOL 3 pages in and still noone can answer the thread :lol


Two 18 point 7 rebound teammates >> most championship supporting casts

And? Wade had better numbers than a lot of FMVP winners. He was better than Iguodala, Leonard, Parker, and Billups to name a few, yet their supporting casts were good enough to win a championship. Why were their supporting casts able to come through but Wade's wasn't? Since Wade had superior production to those players yet his team lost, his supporting cast obviously let him down and is 100% to blame.

If you see the flaw in that argument, you should also see the flaw in yours.

[Hey Yo]

Lebron has had a 10 year prime? :biggums: :bowdown:
:roll:

20yrs old...... is now considered prime when referring to LeBron.

:roll:

[Wade's Rings]

you tell me I went ghost....and now expect me to find where???

GTFOH.

quit ducking the question.

It's the last post on the page, you never replied after that :lol

To answer the question in the OP because Wade was looking for Lebron to lead like he did the 1st 3 Rounds but sadly Lebron was content with another Finals loss.

Why don't you answer my question,Why couldn't Bron lead his team over the 2009 Magic like Wade lead his team over the 2006 Mavs.

[GrapeApe]

:lol :oldlol:


Furthermore noone cares that he:

- Got swept in the 1st round as defending champs (2007)

- Won 15 games and missed the playoffs in the middle of his prime (2008)

-Won 42 games and flamed out against Atlanta, again in the 1st round (2009)

- Lost again in the 1st round (2010)


And theres seriously ppl on these forums who argue him as a top 30 player of all time :roll:


Pippen and Gasol > Wade overall

Quit playing dumb. You know damn well Wade was hurt in '07-'08. It is generally accepted that the '09 Heat overachieved due to Wade's historically good season. Yes he struggled in the playoffs. And lol at even bringing up the 2010 playoff loss to Boston. He played better in that series than Lebron ever did against the big 3 era Celtics.

[KembaWalker]

-Lebron misses playoffs in his prime (2005)


- With an All Star big man I might add

[Hey Yo]

It's the last post on the page, you never replied after that :lol

To answer the question in the OP because Wade was looking for Lebron to lead like he did the 1st 3 Rounds but sadly Lebron was content with another Finals loss.

Why don't you answer my question,Why couldn't Bron lead his team over the 2009 Magic like Wade lead his team over the 2006 Mavs.
What the hell does that have to do with the 2011 Finals?

What Wade did 5yrs prior and what LeBron did on a different team 2yrs before has nothing to do with with the 2011 Finals when Wade was first option and failed.

[DoctorP]

Wade choked that series and LeBron was too passive. Next question.

[Wade's Rings]

- With an All Star big man I might add

Forgot about that :applause:


What the hell does that have to do with the 2011 Finals?

What Wade did 5yrs prior and what LeBron did on a different team 2yrs before has nothing to do with with the 2011 Finals when Wade was first option and failed.

I never said it did. I already answered your question and I asked you to answer mine :confusedshrug:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Wade was the better player of the two, but what happened to his drive and passion?

Sure dude had some great games and even series during the 'Heatles' era, but they were few and far between. Wade never played with the same intensity and grit he did pre 2011. Hell, the last truly ATG season I saw from him was in 2009. 2010 is nice and all, but it felt like he was going thru the motions...at least up until the Boston series.

:confusedshrug:

[GrapeApe]

Wade choked that series and LeBron was too passive. Next question.

Ah I see. The guy who played better "choked" and the other guy was simply "too passive". Is that the logic you're going with? I guess Lebron choked in the 2014 finals and Wade was simply too passive. It all makes sens now.

[Wade's Rings]

Wade was the better player of the two in 2011, but what happened to his drive?

Sure dude had some great games and even series during the 'Heatles' era, but they wee few and far between. Wade never played with the same intensity and grit he did pre 2011. Hell, the last truly ATG season I saw from him was in 2009. 2010 was nice and all, but it felt like he was going thru the motions...at least up until the Boston series.

:confusedshrug:

I feel like 2010 he may have lacked some motivation because of how garbage his team was.

This year was a year I thought I would definitely see more intensity/drive from him but it wasn't there except maybe when the Heat were making that 6th Seed Push in Mid-March.

[DoctorP]

Ah I see. The guy who played better "choked" and the other guy was simply "too passive". Is that the logic you're going with? I guess Lebron choked in the 2014 finals and Wade was simply too passive. It all makes sens now.

No. If you watched the series Wade started turning the ball over late in the games that he played well. Next.

[Wade's Rings]

No. If you watched the series Wade started turning the ball over late in the games that he played well. Next.

Dude had 1 turnover in Game 4 and the missed Free Throw in the Game Bron had 8 points and 0 4th Quarter Points and 1 in late Game 5 but he "choked" :oldlol:

[GrapeApe]

I feel like 2010 he may have lacked some motivation because of how garbage his team was.

This year was a year I thought I would definitely see more intensity/drive from him but it wasn't there except maybe when the Heat were making that 6th Seed Push in Mid-March.

Wade did coast through much of 2010 because he knew what was going to happen in the off season. His minutes were down that year too (and then went back up in 2011) and I am certain it was by design. However I was disappointed with how he finished last season. After the Portland game when he played great and hit the game winner he seemed to check out mentally. It was frustrating to watch.

[Micku]

Because Wade is overrated. :confusedshrug:
His stans wanna act like he's an ATG, but what other ATG would get a pass for losing a series in which he had 2 sidekicks averaging 18 ppg? Serious question.

A few actually.

Larry Bird, Magic, Kareem, Dr. J, Moses Malone, Isiah Thomas, Wilt, and Jerry West. There were loads of other factors as well, but sometimes stuff like this happens. The other team upsetting the favorite.

I think Shaq as well, but I have to double check. He had four all stars (including himself) at one point during the 90s lakers. Although I think all of them except for Shaq didn't perform well in the series that they got knocked out in.


I've been saying this for the longest. I've never seen a guy get sk much credit for three frggn games. What Wade did in 06 was a fluke. 2011 shows it.

Besides. It wasn't the Heats offense, it was their defense. They just couldn't stop Terry and Berea down the stretch of games. Why didn't Wade assume one of those assignments?????? I've had a Heat fan say it was Spoelstras fault. Which is a copout. Wade could've demanded to check one of those guys.

I disagree a bit. It was both. LeBron sucked ass, and he couldn't find a rhythm on both offense and defense. If he was a little bit better in that aspect, then they would've won.

But it shows failure on both Wade and LBJ. Wade couldn't carry his team to victory again like he did in 06, and he couldn't do what LBJ did against the Bulls that same year when Wade was sucking. I think Wade did come up big in the clutch in the series against the Bulls in 11, so I guess that's the difference. But it was still no excuse. They lost. Could've played better.

And Wade should've stepped up and stopped Terry since LBJ couldn't do anything.

[Wade's Rings]

Wade did coast through much of 2010 because he knew what was going to happen in the off season. His minutes were down that year too (and then went back up in 2011) and I am certain it was by design. However I was disappointed with how he finished last season. After the Portland game when he played great and hit the game winner he seemed to check out mentally. It was frustrating to watch.

The last few games in April he played horrible in the 4th quarters. That Bucks Game where they hit the Game Winner may have been where he wasn't as driven as earlier in the Season.

[GrapeApe]

I've been saying this for the longest. I've never seen a guy get sk much credit for three frggn games.What Wade did in 06 was a fluke. 2011 shows it.

Three games? Could you be any more ignorant? Just one series earlier in the ECF Wade put up 27/7/5 on over 60% shooting against one of the top defenses in the league. He averaged 28/6/6 with 2.2 steals and 1.1 blocks on 50% shooting over the course of the entire 2006 playoffs. In the 2005 playoffs Wade averaged 27/7/6 and was shredding Detroit before getting hurt. Hell, he even hit a game winner in the playoffs as a rookie and led his team to the second round.

You then say 2011 shows 2006 was a fluke, yet had Lebron played just SLIGHTLY better, Wade has 2 FMVP's right now and is a top 15 player all time. That's not even getting into his all time great career averages, accolades, and historically good peak play. Even with suffering through some injury plagued playoff runs he still has 23/5/5/2/1 playoff averages in over 150 games.

Yeah, definitely a 3 game fluke career. :rolleyes:

[GrapeApe]

The last few games in April he played horrible in the 4th quarters. That Bucks Game where they hit the Game Winner may have been where he wasn't as driven as earlier in the Season.

Oh yeah, I forgot about that one. :banghead:

You're right, that was probably the beginning of the end (although it ended up working out well for us in terms of the draft).

[DoctorP]

Dude had 1 turnover in Game 4 and the missed Free Throw in the Game Bron had 8 points and 0 4th Quarter Points and 1 in late Game 5 but he "choked" :oldlol:


Yeah any player that beasts during the game but then cannot find the cup in crunch-time is a choker. Wade beasted all game yet came up empty in the closing moments. The Heat lost. LeBron just sucked and Wade choked. Deal with it.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Yeah any player that beasts during the game but then cannot find the cup in crunch-time is a choker. Wade beasted all game yet came up empty in the closing moments. The Heat lost. LeBron just sucked and Wade choked. Deal with it.


in the 2011 finals 4th quarter 5 point diff or less

D Wade = 56% FG

Lebron = 0% FG


http://stats.nba.com/league/player/#...onference=West

[Wade's Rings]

Three games? Could you be any more ignorant? Just one series earlier in the ECF Wade put up 27/7/5 on over 60% shooting against one of the top defenses in the league. He averaged 28/6/6 with 2.2 steals and 1.1 blocks on 50% shooting over the course of the entire 2006 playoffs. In the 2005 playoffs Wade averaged 27/7/6 and was shredding Detroit before getting hurt. Hell, he even hit a game winner in the playoffs as a rookie and led his team to the second round.

You then say 2011 shows 2006 was a fluke, yet had Lebron played just SLIGHTLY better, Wade has 2 FMVP's right now and is a top 15 player all time. That's not even getting into his all time great career averages, accolades, and historically good peak play. Even with suffering through some injury plagued playoff runs he still has 23/5/5/2/1 playoff averages in over 150 games.

Yeah, definitely a 3 game fluke career. :rolleyes:

:applause:

I was going to post this but didn't want to waste my time. He hit 2 Game Winners in his Rookie Year in the Playoffs. Had a series of 21/4/6 shooting 49% vs a Top 3 Defense with the DPOY in the Handcheck era as a Rookie. Wade had 2 Series in 2005 that had only been matched by Greats like Jordan, Wilt, Drexler, Bird, Magic. 27 points on 49% shooting vs the Nets in '06 who were the 4th Best Defense.

[DoctorP]

in the 2011 finals 4th quarter 5 point diff or less

D Wade = 56% FG

Lebron = 0% FG


http://stats.nba.com/league/player/#...onference=West

Stats don't tell the whole story. If you watched the games you would know. Why did they lose? Because Wade could not continue to deliver. I am a huge Wade fan. No agenda.

[Wade's Rings]

Oh yeah, I forgot about that one. :banghead:

You're right, that was probably the beginning of the end (although it ended up working out well for us in terms of the draft).

That's where our Season just went downhill. We had won 2-3 Games and were gunning for the 6th Seed and after that Game Winner everything fell apart. Whiteside got hurt and missed Games, Wade's play dipped, the Heat couldn't win Games and blew leads (4th Quarter lead to Detroit & Bulls 2nd Half comeback).

[TheMarkMadsen]

Stats don't tell the whole story. If you watched the games you would know. Why did they lose? Because Wade could not deliver. I am a huge Wade fan. No agenda.

:facepalm

Wade and bran attempted the same amount of FGA in those situations.. Wade converted 56% of those while Lebron DIDN"T MAKE A SINGLE SHOT ALL SERIES

yet according to you the guy who choked wasn't the guy who literally missed every shot he took in the 4th quarter with the game within 5 points while getting outscored by Jason Terry overall for the series.. nah.. the guy who choked was the guy who averaged 27/7/5/2/2 on 61% TS and who shot 56% in the clutch situations over the entire series..

ok bud :oldlol:

[DoctorP]

:facepalm

Wade and bran attempted the same amount of FGA in those situations.. Wade converted 56% of those while Lebron DIDN"T MAKE A SINGLE SHOT ALL SERIES

yet according to you the guy who choked wasn't the guy who literally missed every shot he took in the 4th quarter with the game within 5 points while getting outscored by Jason Terry overall for the series.. nah.. the guy who choked was the guy who averaged 27/7/5/2/2 on 61% TS and who shot 56% in the clutch situations over the entire series..

ok bud :oldlol:

Im not even talking about LeBron. He's the one that owns your mind. I am saying if Wade was leading the team statistically and he could not finish the job he is the choker. Not the supporting cast. Get your head out of LaBeta's ass. You must be really ****ing stupid.

[WayOfWade]

Alright, why couldn't Wade lead his team to a title in 2011 with 2 other superstars? A few reasons actually.
1. The Heat (Meaning both Wade and LeBron) choked game 2 away.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCT8ov5Lv_Y
2. The Heat (Meaning both Wade and LeBron) choked game 4 away. LeBron had 8 points and Wade did this... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCne5nun8oc And then fumbled the ball the last possession forcing Mike Miller to put up a bad shot which he missed.
3. Brian Cardinal injured Dwyane Wade.
4. Not a lot of effort in game 6 by anybody, Jason Terry walked all over the Heat in that clinching game.
5. The Mavericks. You've got to give credit where credit is due, the Mavs played sensational, especially Dirk Nowitzki, he was phenomenal.
There are probably more reasons but these are the main ones I can think of. Was Wade partially to blame for the loss? Yes, he was. Is he the biggest reason? Absolutely not. In games 2 and 4 where the Heat choked the game away, Wade put up 36 and 32 points respectively, and even led the Heat to a game 3 W with 29. LeBron meanwhile put up 20 in game 2, and a paltry 8 in game 4. Who has the bigger blame for the series loss? Depends on your viewpoint really, as a Wade fan I'd say LeBron; however those who are not Heat fans will probably say Wade. But who's fault is it really?
https://tribzap2it.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/dirk-nowitzki-nba-finals.jpg

[HiphopRelated]

The last few games in April he played horrible in the 4th quarters. That Bucks Game where they hit the Game Winner may have been where he wasn't as driven as earlier in the Season.
I think when Whiteside hurt his hand that was like the final blow to the team.

Wade was on a tear, but that was the last straw.

[DoctorP]

Alright, why couldn't Wade lead his team to a title in 2011 with 2 other superstars? A few reasons actually.
1. The Heat (Meaning both Wade and LeBron) choked game 2 away.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCT8ov5Lv_Y
2. The Heat (Meaning both Wade and LeBron) choked game 4 away. LeBron had 8 points and Wade did this... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCne5nun8oc And then fumbled the ball the last possession forcing Mike Miller to put up a bad shot which he missed.
3. Brian Cardinal injured Dwyane Wade.
4. Not a lot of effort in game 6 by anybody, Jason Terry walked all over the Heat in that clinching game.
5. The Mavericks. You've got to give credit where credit is due, the Mavs played sensational, especially Dirk Nowitzki, he was phenomenal.
There are probably more reasons but these are the main ones I can think of. Was Wade partially to blame for the loss? Yes, he was. Is he the biggest reason? Absolutely not. In games 2 and 4 where the Heat choked the game away, Wade put up 36 and 32 points respectively, and even led the Heat to a game 3 W with 29. LeBron meanwhile put up 20 in game 2, and a paltry 8 in game 4. Who has the bigger blame for the series loss? Depends on your viewpoint really, as a Wade fan I'd say LeBron; however those who are not Heat fans will probably say Wade. But who's fault is it really?
https://tribzap2it.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/dirk-nowitzki-nba-finals.jpg

Yeah, it's the whole teams fault really. That's the real deal.

[Wade's Rings]

I think when Whiteside hurt his hand that was like the final blow to the team.

Wade was on a tear, but that was the last straw.

IIRC the Heat barely won any games after that injury with him out.

[inclinerator]

http://i.imgur.com/pmktzFF.jpg

Might wanna blame his sidekick's sidekick
those are pretty good numbers for a sidekick let alone a sidekick's sidekick

[TheMarkMadsen]

Im not even talking about LeBron. He's the one that owns your mind. I am saying if Wade was leading the team statistically and he could not finish the job he is the choker. Not the supporting cast. Get your head out of LaBeta's ass. You must be really ****ing stupid.

your premise makes no sense, like absolutly none at all

Game 1 Wade drops 36 pts on 65%, including 9 in the fourth

game 3 Wade drops 29/11/3 on 57%, scores 7 points in the 4th..

"he didn't finish the job" what the fucc are you even talking about.. he shot 56% in the 4th quarter when the game was within 5 points or less.. they lost a crucial game 4 where they could have went up 3-1.. Wade put up 32 points on 65% TS, led the team in the 4th quarter scoring, made free throws with 9 seconds left to cut the lead to 1 point..

game 5 Wade scores 10 points in the 4th and add 2 blocks in the 4th also..

if you seriously think Wade "choked" in that series then you are a moron plain and simple, no intelligent basketball fan would even entertain that thought.. Wade was playing out of your mind for the entire series and the other star on your team was having the worst series of his career

lmao at Wade choking in the finals during 2011, it only took 4 years for these dumbass trolls to try this :oldlol: :oldlol:

[JT123]

Madsen having a meltdown. :oldlol: :banana:

[DoctorP]

your premise makes no sense, like absolutly none at all

Game 1 Wade drops 36 pts on 65%, including 9 in the fourth

game 3 Wade drops 29/11/3 on 57%, scores 7 points in the 4th..

"he didn't finish the job" what the fucc are you even talking about.. he shot 56% in the 4th quarter when the game was within 5 points or less.. they lost a crucial game 4 where they could have went up 3-1.. Wade put up 32 points on 65% TS, led the team in the 4th quarter scoring, made free throws with 9 seconds left to cut the lead to 1 point..

game 5 Wade scores 10 points in the 4th and add 2 blocks in the 4th also..

if you seriously think Wade "choked" in that series then you are a moron plain and simple, no intelligent basketball fan would even entertain that thought.. Wade was playing out of your mind for the entire series and the other star on your team was having the worst series of his career

lmao at Wade choking in the finals during 2011, it only took 4 years for these dumbass trolls to try this :oldlol: :oldlol:

If Wade would not have had a turnover in a crucial moment, the Heat would have won Game 2. He should have had at least 40 in Game 2.

If Wade would have made his free throws the Heat would have won Game 4.

[Showtime2001]

Madsen having a meltdown. :oldlol: :banana:
2/6.

:lol

[TheMarkMadsen]

If Wade would not have had a turnover in a crucial moment, the Heat would have won Game 2. He should have had at least 40 in Game 2.

If Wade would have made his free throws the Heat would have won Game 4.


Wade had 32 on 65%, Bosh had 24 on 47% and Lebron had 8 on 27%

lets blame wade :rolleyes:

Wade had to overcompensate for the egg bran was laying this game, wade missed a free throw to tie the game but hit a jumper with 9 seconds left to cut the lead to 1.. if lebron just played average they would have won easily

how can you blame that on Wade when the other star on the team is having the worst playoff game of his life :biggums:

[WayOfWade]

If Wade would not have had a turnover in a crucial moment, the Heat would have won Game 2. He should have had at least 40 in Game 2.

If Wade would have made his free throws the Heat would have won Game 4.
True Wade should've hit his free throws in game 4, but you are acting like it is completely Wade's fault, which it isn't. Had LeBron mustered double digits, it probably never would've been necessary for Wade to hit those free throws in the first place. In the end both have the blame, with LeBron having the greater game for putting up a putrid performance. But Wade really should've gotten those free throws, a pretty bad choke right there.

[DoctorP]

True Wade should've hit his free throws in game 4, but you are acting like it is completely Wade's fault, which it isn't. Had LeBron mustered double digits, it probably never would've been necessary for Wade to hit those free throws in the first place. In the end both have the blame, with LeBron having the greater game for putting up a putrid performance. But Wade really should've gotten those free throws, a pretty bad choke right there.

He also had a turnover on a critical possession in Game 2 and got injured by charging into the defense.

You're welcome.

[riseagainst]

http://i.imgur.com/pmktzFF.jpg

Might wanna blame his sidekick's sidekick

/thread

:lol
:roll:
:roll:
:roll:
:roll:
:roll:
:roll:
:roll:

[SouBeachTalents]

Because one of them played like this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3kKxtSQa-4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFe8KUEQdn4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FuYJ1U2YZ8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhR-CXagPZI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eL3Kz3DD1uQ

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/z%20Funny%20NBA%20Photos/Funny%20NBA%20Record/Lebron%20James/aka%20big%20choker/lebron-james-2011-nba-final-4q.jpg
http://s28.postimg.org/7vmgqsb7h/bq8s8.png

No top 10 player of all time cost their team a championship more than LeBron did this series

[PJR]

He also had a turnover on a critical possession in Game 2 and got injured by charging into the defense.

You're welcome.

How many points did LeBron have in game 4 again?

[dubeta]

Because one of them played like this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3kKxtSQa-4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFe8KUEQdn4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FuYJ1U2YZ8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhR-CXagPZI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eL3Kz3DD1uQ

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/z%20Funny%20NBA%20Photos/Funny%20NBA%20Record/Lebron%20James/aka%20big%20choker/lebron-james-2011-nba-final-4q.jpg
http://s28.postimg.org/7vmgqsb7h/bq8s8.png

No top 10 player of all time cost their team a championship more than LeBron did this series


Lol what?


'95 Jordan, '13 Duncan, '91 Magic come to mind

[jlip]

I said this back in 2011:



I've said this before. This point seems to be lost with all of the attention on Lebron. Wade, after coming on national TV making public declarations about how he was now the "captain" and the team's "leader", failed his team when they needed him most also. He only effectively closed out 1 game in the finals, and that was game 3. After being great during the first 47 minutes of game 4 he chokes in the final 30 seconds of a one possession game. He misses a game tying free throw and then fumbles a routine inbound pass almost creating a turnover forcing Mike Miller into a tough shot on the final play of again, a one possession game. Then in the final, do- or- die game 6, the Heat's self proclaimed leader has by far his worst game of the series scoring only 17pts on 37.5% shooting.

The OP is correct. Despite the inexplicably horrid performance of Lebron, Wade has been vastly let off the hook. Wade's reputation of being clutch and able to "carry" a team is riding almost solely off a questionably officiated Finals that happened half a decade ago. In this season's Finals we saw the same Wade who hadn't gotten out of the first round since then. In the series that he has been eliminated in since '06, he has been known to often have a few dominating games early, only to almost invariably in the close out game proceed to have his worst shooting performance of the entire series. Go check the box scores. It happened in '07, 10, and again this year. His team missed the '08 playoffs because of injuries. In '09 his game 7 was his 3rd worst shooting performances of that series against the Hawks.

[guy]

:oldlol: wow Lebron fans are idiots. Intentionally lowering him to Pippen/McHale/Worthy standards. Wow.

[riseagainst]

Lol what?


'95 Jordan, '13 Duncan, '91 Magic come to mind

:biggums:


what is the actual fuq?

:roll:
:roll:
:roll:
:roll:
:roll:
:roll:
:roll:
:roll:

[GrapeApe]

Well OP, you've created a troll thread that has gone 7 pages so job well done.

The last thing I'll say about this topic (and I've said this many times before) is I in no way completely absolve Wade of blame for 2011. In the 4th quarter of game 2 after hitting what appeared to be a dagger 3, he inexplicably decided to play super friend. He was unstoppable that game. Dallas had no answers for him. That was his moment to be selfish and say "give me the ball and get out of my way. I'm bringing us home". Had he done that, the Heat go up 2-0 and Wade likely has 2 FMVP's right now. Even if the Heat still lost games 4 and 5 I don't think there's any way they lose 4 in a row and 2 in a row at home.

I don't buy any of that bullshit about first option vs second option, who's team was it, who was the leader, blah blah blah. All year long they were co-first options and when one player was hot, he was the guy. It had worked all season and all throughout the playoffs. Wade was the guy against Boston, they win the series 4-1. Lebron was the guy against Chicago, they win the series 4-1. I don't understand why things changed in the finals.

[DoctorP]

Well OP, you've created a troll thread that has gone 7 pages so job well done.

The last thing I'll say about this topic (and I've said this many times before) is I in no way completely absolve Wade of blame for 2011. In the 4th quarter of game 2 after hitting what appeared to be a dagger 3, he inexplicably decided to play super friend. He was unstoppable that game. Dallas had no answers for him. That was his moment to be selfish and say "give me the ball and get out of my way. I'm bringing us home". Had he done that, the Heat go up 2-0 and Wade likely has 2 FMVP's right now. Even if the Heat still lost games 4 and 5 I don't think there's any way they lose 4 in a row and 2 in a row at home.

I don't buy any of that bullshit about first option vs second option, who's team was it, who was the leader, blah blah blah. All year long they were co-first options and when one player was hot, he was the guy. It had worked all season and all throughout the playoffs. Wade was the guy against Boston, they win the series 4-1. Lebron was the guy against Chicago, they win the series 4-1. I don't understand why things changed in the finals.

Because Dallas was the better team. That's what you have to understand. The defense from the center position and zone defense was confusing LeBron. And then Wade just wasnt good enough to lead the Heat to the victory without LeBron playing well offensively.

[Papaya Petee]

Three games? Could you be any more ignorant? Just one series earlier in the ECF Wade put up 27/7/5 on over 60% shooting against one of the top defenses in the league. He averaged 28/6/6 with 2.2 steals and 1.1 blocks on 50% shooting over the course of the entire 2006 playoffs. In the 2005 playoffs Wade averaged 27/7/6 and was shredding Detroit before getting hurt. Hell, he even hit a game winner in the playoffs as a rookie and led his team to the second round.

You then say 2011 shows 2006 was a fluke, yet had Lebron played just SLIGHTLY better, Wade has 2 FMVP's right now and is a top 15 player all time. That's not even getting into his all time great career averages, accolades, and historically good peak play. Even with suffering through some injury plagued playoff runs he still has 23/5/5/2/1 playoff averages in over 150 games.

Yeah, definitely a 3 game fluke career. :rolleyes:
Hes not worth talking too. He tried arguing for 20+ pages that Pippen is a better player than Wade :roll:
Complete retard.

[Dresta]

I guess fluke is kinda harsh. My point is look at his whole body of work. Some of you guys compare him to Jordan based on three games in 2006. I find that over rating him.
Nice lies. 3 games? What 3 games was that? His decimation of the Detriot Pistons in the 06 ECF? The same to New Jersey in the round before? Or the four games in the NBA finals when he led his team from the brink of an embarrassing defeat to a victory over the favourite?

Not to mention his performance in the 2011 finals (where he was quite clearly let down by a pouting teammate, who played woeful on both ends - Miami's defensive breakdowns in that series had more to do with Lebron's inability to engage properly more than anything else), the 2011 ECSF, insane numbers against the Celtics in 2010 (who Bron and Kobe struggled massively against); his series-saving performance in the 2013 finals on one knee, and his series saving performances against Indiana in 2012.

These are just off the top of my head, so stop with such ridiculous lies; they are making you look a fool.

[Dresta]

Because Dallas was the better team. That's what you have to understand. The defense from the center position and zone defense was confusing LeBron. And then Wade just wasnt good enough to lead the Heat to the victory without LeBron playing well offensively.
Or defensively. Hard to win when your team is effectively made up of 3 guys, and one of them delivers a complete no-show, on both ends.

[97 bulls]

I said this back in 2011:
That's a great post Jlip.

[97 bulls]

Nice lies. 3 games? What 3 games was that? His decimation of the Detriot Pistons in the 06 ECF? The same to New Jersey in the round before? Or the four games in the NBA finals when he led his team from the brink of an embarrassing defeat to a victory over the favourite?

Not to mention his performance in the 2011 finals (where he was quite clearly let down by a pouting teammate, who played woeful on both ends - Miami's defensive breakdowns in that series had more to do with Lebron's inability to engage properly more than anything else), the 2011 ECSF, insane numbers against the Celtics in 2010 (who Bron and Kobe struggled massively against); his series-saving performance in the 2013 finals on one knee, and his series saving performances against Indiana in 2012.

These are just off the top of my head, so stop with such ridiculous lies; they are making you look a fool.
I was only referencing the Finals. Again. Wades CAREER gets to much credit for one great yet controversial run. Thats been my point.

As far as 2011. Did James play below his standard? Absolutely. But he played well enough that if Wade is as great as you claim he is then he should've been able to lead the Heat past Dallas. Especially when they came in as the favorite.

[97 bulls]

Hes not worth talking too. He tried arguing for 20+ pages that Pippen is a better player than Wade :roll:
Complete retard.
Amd for 20+ pages all you had was 2006 and 2009. Thats it. I even posted newe clips dated right before the NBA Finals in 06 where it was understood that Dallas defensive attention was on Shaq.

[Hey Yo]

Nice lies. 3 games? What 3 games was that? His decimation of the Detriot Pistons in the 06 ECF? The same to New Jersey in the round before? Or the four games in the NBA finals when he led his team from the brink of an embarrassing defeat to a victory over the favourite?

Not to mention his performance in the 2011 finals (where he was quite clearly let down by a pouting teammate, who played woeful on both ends - Miami's defensive breakdowns in that series had more to do with Lebron's inability to engage properly more than anything else), the 2011 ECSF, insane numbers against the Celtics in 2010 (who Bron and Kobe struggled massively against); his series-saving performance in the 2013 finals on one knee, and his series saving performances against Indiana in 2012.

These are just off the top of my head, so stop with such ridiculous lies; they are making you look a fool.
Please elaborate on how Wade saved both those series. Especially against Indiana who won only 2 games in that series.

Thanks.

[guy]

Amd for 20+ pages all you had was 2006 and 2009. Thats it. I even posted newe clips dated right before the NBA Finals in 06 where it was understood that Dallas defensive attention was on Shaq.

All he had was 2006 and 2009? If those type of seasons are the minimum standard for all someone had, then there's less then 20 players that can say they've had that much.

Wade was a great player for the majority of 9 seasons i.e. 2005-2013. He was basically at least a top 10 player that whole time other then when he was hurt in 2007 and 2008, and then the 2013 playoffs. He was probably a top 3 player in 2006, 2007 before he got hurt, 2009, 2010, and 2011. He's a 24/6/5, 3x champion, 1x FMVP, 11x All-Star, 8x All-NBA player. What more do you expect from a SG who's not Jordan or Kobe?

[Wade's Rings]

97 Bulls Wade hate is hilarious

[catch24]

97 Bulls Wade hate is hilarious

It doesn't even make sense.

If he thinks 2006 and 2009 are the ONLY seasons Wade had that were elite, then which seasons from Pippen were elite exactly? By his line of thinking...his boy was NEVER elite :confusedshrug:

[dubeta]

97 Bulls Wade hate is hilarious


He's speaking the truth brah

[GrapeApe]

Because Dallas was the better team. That's what you have to understand. The defense from the center position and zone defense was confusing LeBron. And then Wade just wasnt good enough to lead the Heat to the victory without LeBron playing well offensively.

The bolded is a complete indictment of Lebron. I'm not even sure what you're trying to argue with that statement. Wade handled the "confusing" defense just fine, and I don't agree at all with your last sentence. Wade WAS good enough to lead the Heat to victory. If Lebron had stepped up in clutch moments like Wade did against the Bulls, the Heat would have won despite lebron's overall numbers being sub-standard. I constantly see Lebron stans comparing Lebron's finals to Wade's ECF. Their overall numbers were similar, but one player fought through his struggles to make huge plays while the other disappeared. It's that simple.

[97 bulls]

All he had was 2006 and 2009? If those type of seasons are the minimum standard for all someone had, then there's less then 20 players that can say they've had that much.

Wade was a great player for the majority of 9 seasons i.e. 2005-2013. He was basically at least a top 10 player that whole time other then when he was hurt in 2007 and 2008, and then the 2013 playoffs. He was probably a top 3 player in 2006, 2007 before he got hurt, 2009, 2010, and 2011. He's a 24/6/5, 3x champion, 1x FMVP, 11x All-Star, 8x All-NBA player. What more do you expect from a SG who's not Jordan or Kobe?
I hate when people do this. If your gonna jump in at least make sure you know the whole dialogue.

I was responding to the thread where we discussed who was better between Wade and Pippen. Their only argument was 2006 and 2009.

Buy I find it funny that when it comes to anyone outside of Jordan, when it comes to the players on the Bulls, you always side with the opposing player. Or don't respond.

[97 bulls]

It doesn't even make sense.

If he thinks 2006 and 2009 are the ONLY seasons Wade had that were elite, then which seasons from Pippen were elite exactly? By his line of thinking...his boy was NEVER elite :confusedshrug:
No. I never stated that. Come on.

[97 bulls]

You guys debate like sensitive females. Please don't misinterpret my posts and points.

[PJR]

You guys debate like sensitive females. Please don't misinterpret my posts and points.

That's the point, you DONT have any points.


You look and discuss basketball like a complete and utter simpleton, and it's hard to take you seriously.


Here's basically how you sound: "Wade's overrated because he doesn't meet MY arbitrary standards for I consider great. And I'll move the goal post if you bring up his entire career achievements"

You have no point. You just don't care for Wade. Leave it that, and stop trying to sell your bullshit "points".

[ArbitraryWater]

All he had was 2006 and 2009? If those type of seasons are the minimum standard for all someone had, then there's less then 20 players that can say they've had that much.

Wade was a great player for the majority of 9 seasons i.e. 2005-2013. He was basically at least a top 10 player that whole time other then when he was hurt in 2007 and 2008, and then the 2013 playoffs. He was probably a top 3 player in 2006, 2007 before he got hurt, 2009, 2010, and 2011. He's a 24/6/5, 3x champion, 1x FMVP, 11x All-Star, 8x All-NBA player. What more do you expect from a SG who's not Jordan or Kobe?

Wade was not 'great' anymore in 2013, sorry. If we mention 2013, why not 2014? I thought he was fantastic in the limited playing time in the regular season.

[97 bulls]

That's the point, you DONT have any points.


You look and discuss basketball like a complete and utter simpleton, and it's hard to take you seriously.


Here's basically how you sound: "Wade's overrated because he doesn't meet MY arbitrary standards for I consider great. And I'll move the goal post if you bring up his entire career achievements"

You have no point. You just don't care for Wade. Leave it that, and stop trying to sell your bullshit "points".
Why would I dislike Wade? It was Lebron James that killed us in 11 not Wade. I don't know him personally. Again. Thinking like a female. Just totally overblown.

There's just nothing that I've seen that warrants putting him in the echelons of players like Jordan. Which I've seen done. He's on the second tier. Sitting next to Pippen. And theres nothing wrong with that.

[Wade's Rings]

Why would I dislike Wade? It was Lebron James that killed us in 11 not Wade. I don't know him personally. Again. Thinking like a female. Just totally overblown.

There's just nothing that I've seen that warrants putting him in the echelons of players like Jordan. Which I've seen done. He's on the second tier. Sitting next to Pippen. And theres nothing wrong with that.

:roll: :roll:

[Wade's Rings]

Wade was not 'great' anymore in 2013, sorry. If we mention 2013, why not 2014? I thought he was fantastic in the limited playing time in the regular season.

He was great in the 2013 Regular Season.

[ArbitraryWater]

He was great in the 2013 Regular Season.

I just said he was fantastic in both the 2013 and 2014 regular seasons, but with that type of playoff run and no apparent, damaging injuries (he denied talks at the time), and even if, you can't make that many 'excuses' when you're just that type of player now, he lost his top 10, maybe even top 15 spot.

[Wade's Rings]

I just said he was fantastic in both the 2013 and 2014 regular seasons, but with that type of playoff run and no apparent, damaging injuries (he denied talks at the time), and even if, you can't make that many 'excuses' when you're just that type of player now, he lost his top 10, maybe even top 15 spot.

Ok I'll agree with this.

[GrapeApe]

Wade was not 'great' anymore in 2013, sorry. If we mention 2013, why not 2014? I thought he was fantastic in the limited playing time in the regular season.

He was great in 2013 up until the knee injury. I think I mentioned it earlier in this thread but 2013 is probably his most underrated season because most people only remember him being injured in the playoffs. 21/5/5/2/1 on 52% and a 24 PER is one of the best seasons for a second option guard in history. He had it all working that season. Mid-range jumper, post game, off the ball cutting, finishing strong at the rim, high efficiency, low turnover rate, very good defensively, and looked as explosive as he'd been since 2011. He was playing at an MVP level during the streak.

I was SO pissed when he got hurt because he and Lebron were primed to have an all time great perimeter duo playoff run. :banghead:

[HOoopCityJones]

Nice lies. 3 games? What 3 games was that? His decimation of the Detriot Pistons in the 06 ECF? The same to New Jersey in the round before? Or the four games in the NBA finals when he led his team from the brink of an embarrassing defeat to a victory over the favourite?

Not to mention his performance in the 2011 finals (where he was quite clearly let down by a pouting teammate, who played woeful on both ends - Miami's defensive breakdowns in that series had more to do with Lebron's inability to engage properly more than anything else), the 2011 ECSF, insane numbers against the Celtics in 2010 (who Bron and Kobe struggled massively against); his series-saving performance in the 2013 finals on one knee, and his series saving performances against Indiana in 2012.

These are just off the top of my head, so stop with such ridiculous lies; they are making you look a fool.

What is it with this revisionism how it pertains to Lakers vs Celtics game 7? Kobe was torching The Celtics defense all series up until the first three quarters of game 7.

[ArbitraryWater]

What is it with this revisionism how it pertains to Lakers vs Celtics game 7? Kobe was torching The Celtics defense all series up until the first three quarters of game 7.

:biggums:

[guy]

I hate when people do this. If your gonna jump in at least make sure you know the whole dialogue.

I was responding to the thread where we discussed who was better between Wade and Pippen. Their only argument was 2006 and 2009.

Buy I find it funny that when it comes to anyone outside of Jordan, when it comes to the players on the Bulls, you always side with the opposing player. Or don't respond.

Okay. Their "only" argument was 06 and 09. Sorry but those are pretty big arguments :oldlol: If you want to say remove Wade's 2 best seasons then Pippen was a better player, I think you'd have a great argument.

It's not my fault that Jordan's supporting cast is almost always compared to players that were better then them. The times they aren't is usually a troll thread not worth responding to like Pippen vs someone like Robert Horry for example.

[JT123]

What is it with this revisionism how it pertains to Lakers vs Celtics game 7? Kobe was torching The Celtics defense all series up until the first three quarters of game 7.
Your boy shot 40% for the series. That doesn't happen from just one bad game.

[Smoke117]

What is it with this revisionism how it pertains to Lakers vs Celtics game 7? Kobe was torching The Celtics defense all series up until the first three quarters of game 7.

Kobe stan land...where shooting .438% through your first six games is lighting up the other team...:lol :oldlol: :roll:

[JT123]

Kobe stan land...where shooting .438% through your first six games is lighting up the other team...:lol :oldlol: :roll:
:roll:

[Smoke117]

:roll:


Who knows? Maybe this is how degenerate the sport of basketball is...that kobe bryant is held to the highest standard of skill and talent...LOL. Yeah...LOL. Considering how popular he is...the upcoming basketball players may actually grow up and become this ****ing stupid...ewgh.

A lot of people want to hold Jordan accountable for the though process of young kids and basketball...but even though I don't like the cat...he was a great basketball player: skill, talent, other worldly athleticism...of course....but the cat was a fantastic baller even as much as I don't like him.

The fact of the matter is Kobe stans are trying to make Kobe a lot better than he ever was...he literally didnt' do shit in the finals unless it was the 2009 Magic who had no business being their and needed 7 games to knock out hte Celtics without their best player...LOL...wow. That accomplishment Laker fans...

[97 bulls]

Okay. Their "only" argument was 06 and 09. Sorry but those are pretty big arguments :oldlol: If you want to say remove Wade's 2 best seasons then Pippen was a better player, I think you'd have a great argument.
Lol. We're talking about two guys CAREERS. Not one great statistical season where your team struggles to stay above .500 and the other controversial at the least.


It's not my fault that Jordan's supporting cast is almost always compared to players that were better then them. The times they aren't is usually a troll thread not worth responding to like Pippen vs someone like Robert Horry for example.
Lol. But their not. And you defend these things to the bitter end.

[tpols]

Kobe stan land...where shooting .438% through your first six games is lighting up the other team...:lol :oldlol: :roll:


godamn smoke.. Kobe had 32 on 56 TS up until then. That's very nice production, MJ average career effieincy on 32 ppg vs a very elite defense. WTF do you want bro ?

[ArbitraryWater]

godamn smoke.. Kobe had 32 on 56 TS up until then. That's very nice production, MJ average career effieincy on 32 ppg vs a very elite defense. WTF do you want bro ?

Hiding behind your precious TS%, knowing damn well Kobe wasn't lighting shit up, through 7 games or 6. He had 1 great game up to that point, being game 5, LeBron had 2 great ones through 3 games..

[aj1987]

godamn smoke.. Kobe had 32 on 56 TS up until then. That's very nice production, MJ average career effieincy on 32 ppg vs a very elite defense. WTF do you want bro ?
No he didn't.

:roll: @ 97 Bulls still believing that Pip is above Wade. Give it up son.

[Wade's Rings]

No he didn't.

:roll: @ 97 Bulls still believing that Pip is above Wade. Give it up son.

"Wade is a tier below with Pippen" :roll:

[dubeta]

"Wade is a tier below with Pippen" :roll:

Whats funny? :biggums:

[Wade's Rings]

Whats funny? :biggums:

The fact that no Bron stan has answered my question about why Bron couldn't win in 2009 like Wade did in 2006 even though he had more help :confusedshrug:

[97 bulls]

The fact that no Bron stan has answered my question about why Bron couldn't win in 2009 like Wade did in 2006 even though he had more help :confusedshrug:
Im not a Bron stan. But there's a lot of players that could've did what Wade did if the refs send them to the FT line 20+ times a night.

[aj1987]

Im not a Bron stan. But there's a lot of players that could've did what Wade did if the refs send them to the FT line 20+ times a night.
There are at least a hundred players who could've won playing next to the GOAT as well.

Now 16 is considered 20+?

[GrapeApe]

Im not a Bron stan. But there's a lot of players that could've did what Wade did if the refs send them to the FT line 20+ times a night.

Aside from that being a stupid post, you might want to check your facts.

What about Wade's 27/7/5/2/2 on 62% in the ECF against Detroit? You know, the league's top defense who shut down Kobe with an even better version of Shaq? I guess that was all the refs too?

[Wade's Rings]

Im not a Bron stan. But there's a lot of players that could've did what Wade did if the refs send them to the FT line 20+ times a night.

Wade shot 97 Total FT's in 6 Games, Bron shot 94 Total FT's in 6 Games..you tried though.

[Wade's Rings]

Aside from that being a stupid post, you might want to check your facts.

What about Wade's 27/7/5/2/2 on 62% in the ECF against Detroit? You know, the league's top defense who shut down Kobe with an even better version of Shaq? I guess that was all the refs too?

In Games 1-4 he put up 31 points on 70% shooting :bowdown: :bowdown:

[SamuraiSWISH]

Cause LeBron sabatoged the 2011 Finals.

[Mr. Jabbar]

Cause LeBron sabatoged the 2011 Finals.

this.

it hurts me to quote that but i cannot lie to myself anymore

[tpols]

Hiding behind your precious TS%, knowing damn well Kobe wasn't lighting shit up, through 7 games or 6. He had 1 great game up to that point, being game 5, LeBron had 2 great ones through 3 games..

I'm "hiding" behind something, by posting volume scored plus overall efficiency.. meanwhile the guy I quoted used solely FG to make his argument .. nothing else.

Okay bud.

[Hey Yo]

Wade shot 97 Total FT's in 6 Games, Bron shot 94 Total FT's in 6 Games..you tried though.
Which of his 6 Finals appearances did that happen in?

[Hey Yo]

Cause LeBron sabatoged the 2011 Finals.
By leading Wade's team in scoring for 2 games and adding a triple double in another?

better erase the chalkboard and try again, coach.

[SouBeachTalents]

By leading Wade's team in scoring for 2 games and adding a triple double in another?

better erase the chalkboard and try again, coach.

LeBron's ppg
Regular season: 27
First 3 rounds: 26
2011 Finals: 18
Biggest ppg drop off in NBA history

4th quarter ppg: 3

Literally the only stretch of his career since he was a rookie that he went 6 games without scoring 25 points

Scored EIGHT points in a Finals game in his absolute peak

[KembaWalker]

LeBron's ppg
Regular season: 27
First 3 rounds: 26
2011 Finals: 18
Biggest ppg drop off in NBA history

4th quarter ppg: 3

Literally the only stretch of his career since he was a rookie that he went 6 games without scoring 25 points

Scored EIGHT points in a Finals game in his absolute peak

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/kevin-garnett-reaction.gif

[Wade's Rings]

Which of his 6 Finals appearances did that happen in?

Unfortunately he couldn't reach the Finals because he couldn't win with more help than Wade. Stop avoiding my Original Question and answer it, why couldn't Bron win in 2009 like Wade did in 2006 even though he had more help?

[97 bulls]

Wade shot 97 Total FT's in 6 Games, Bron shot 94 Total FT's in 6 Games..you tried though.
What championship did James shoot that many FTs?

[97 bulls]

There are at least a hundred players who could've won playing next to the GOAT as well.

Now 16 is considered 20+?
Probably right. What's the point? Wade had prime Lebron James and lost twice. One as a heavy favorite. Pippen never lost when he had the best player in the league and was the favorite. Hell Pippen NEVER lost as the favorite. Can you say the same for Wade?

[SouBeachTalents]

Probably right. What's the point? Wade had prime Lebron James and lost twice. One as a heavy favorite. Pippen never lost when he had the best player in the league and was the favorite. Hell Pippen NEVER lost as the favorite. Can you say the same for Wade?

Did Jordan ever have a Finals as bad as LeBron's in 2011?

[DoctorP]

Why do you monkees have to continue to make this a LeBron vs Wade issue when they were on the same team? Are you guys seriously this retarded to continue the same theme over and over?

They lost. Wade choked. LeBron didnt do enough. Where was Bosh? How about Bibby or Dampier?


SHUT THE **** UP

:lol

[97 bulls]

Did Jordan ever have a Finals as bad as LeBron's in 2011?
James didn't have a bad finals

[SouBeachTalents]

James didn't have a bad finals

For his standard, he absolutely did. Let me know how many titles the Bulls win with Jordan averaging 18 ppg in the Finals and scoring 2 points or less in the 4th quarter. Hell, Jordan never scored less than 22 points in a Finals GAME

[sd3035]

Hey Yo gettin rekt in his own thread :roll:

[aj1987]

Probably right. What's the point? Wade had prime Lebron James and lost twice. One as a heavy favorite. Pippen never lost when he had the best player in the league and was the favorite. Hell Pippen NEVER lost as the favorite. Can you say the same for Wade?
Must be fun playing with the GOAT, who's a tier above LeBron easily, and the GOAT coach.



James didn't have a bad finals
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Do you even basketball bro?

[dubeta]

James didn't have a bad finals

Agreed

18/7/7 on 47% isn't bad


Heck Bird has had worse finals, Jordan's '96 is only marginally better.

[greatest-ever]

It's pretty silly to point to 18 7 from Lebron and say those are good 2nd option numbers. It was 18 ppg on only average efficiency 54 ts%, and if you actually watched/remember that series, Lebron hardly made any impact at all outside of maybe 2 games. And even his defense wasn't good outside of a few games. Wade beasted in pretty much 5/6 games. Sure he could've done better in some of the 4th quarters but, he was pretty much doing everything with Lebron playing subpar. I mean Wade's PER in that series was like 8th all time for a finals or something like that. If Wade gets any blame here, it's a small fraction and LEbron should definitely receive more of the flack.

[Wade's Rings]

What championship did James shoot that many FTs?

:roll: First it was Lebron could do what Wade did if he shot 20+ FTs a night, I prove they shot pretty much the same number of FTs and now it's Bron didn't do that in a Finals Series. Stop shifting the Goal Post.

[97 bulls]

:roll: First it was Lebron could do what Wade did if he shot 20+ FTs a night, I prove they shot pretty much the same number of FTs and now it's Bron didn't do that in a Finals Series. Stop shifting the Goal Post.
What year? Im not saying you're wrong. I just want proof. Trust but verify

[97 bulls]

Must be fun playing with the GOAT, who's a tier above LeBron easily, and the GOAT coach.



:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Do you even basketball bro?
Exactly

[97 bulls]

For his standard, he absolutely did. Let me know how many titles the Bulls win with Jordan averaging 18 ppg in the Finals and scoring 2 points or less in the 4th quarter. Hell, Jordan never scored less than 22 points in a Finals GAME
Its my understanding that James was the number two guy. By you guys assertion. 18 ppg from your second option is not bad. And third option as well. I mean, if Wade is so great, he should've led them to the promised land

[Hey Yo]

LeBron's ppg
Regular season: 27
First 3 rounds: 26
2011 Finals: 18
Biggest ppg drop off in NBA history

4th quarter ppg: 3

Literally the only stretch of his career since he was a rookie that he went 6 games without scoring 25 points

Scored EIGHT points in a Finals game in his absolute peak
The above just strengthens the argument that LeBron clearly agreed to take a backseat in the Finals and held back for the sake of Wade looking for a FMVP.

You don't find it strange that once Wade publicly said "it's LeBron's team now".....James hasn't come close to having a Finals series like 2011's?

[DoctorP]

Must be fun playing with the GOAT, who's a tier above LeBron easily, and the GOAT coach.



:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Do you even basketball bro?

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Y_ODcECzxGQ/T4sMKffGa8I/AAAAAAAAA88/LnQ8Dvynqbg/s1600/michael-scott-no.gif

[Hey Yo]

Unfortunately he couldn't reach the Finals because he couldn't win with more help than Wade. Stop avoiding my Original Question and answer it, why couldn't Bron win in 2009 like Wade did in 2006 even though he had more help?
He didn't have more help.

Orlando as a team shot 48% from the field and 41% from 3...(152 3PA)

Dallas as a team shot 42% and 28% from 3...(116 3PA)

there's your answer.

[GrapeApe]

ISH is literally the only place I've ever heard anyone try to shift the blame to Wade for the 2011 finals. I know some hardcore Lebron stans (masquerading as Heat fans), and they admit he just flat out blew it. People who continue to point to his overall numbers aren't getting it. I've already explained the flaws in that logic so I won't get into it again. Lebron played like shit. He cost the Heat that series. Period. Lebron himself would say the same thing. I have no problem admitting Wade played horribly in 2014. It happens. All great players shit the bed sometimes, even Jordan. There's no way around it and I don't understand why that's so hard to accept. Lebron was able to bounce back with two great playoff runs and the Heat won back to back titles.

I am in no way a Wade stan (a homer yes) or a Lebron hater. In fact, if I had to choose I would rather the Heat had won in 2014 than 2011. Wade getting that FMVP in 2011 would have been nice, but a title in 2014 means that Lebron likely stays in Miami to go after the 4-peat.

[red1]

because his teammate choked? because they played a team with MUCH better chemistry?

[97 bulls]

ISH is literally the only place I've ever heard anyone try to shift the blame to Wade for the 2011 finals. I know some hardcore Lebron stans (masquerading as Heat fans), and they admit he just flat out blew it. People who continue to point to his overall numbers aren't getting it. I've already explained the flaws in that logic so I won't get into it again. Lebron played like shit. He cost the Heat that series. Period. Lebron himself would say the same thing. I have no problem admitting Wade played horribly in 2014. It happens. All great players shit the bed sometimes, even Jordan. There's no way around it and I don't understand why that's so hard to accept. Lebron was able to bounce back with two great playoff runs and the Heat won back to back titles.

I am in no way a Wade stan (a homer yes) or a Lebron hater. In fact, if I had to choose I would rather the Heat had won in 2014 than 2011. Wade getting that FMVP in 2011 would have been nice, but a title in 2014 means that Lebron likely stays in Miami to go after the 4-peat.
I actually agree. I've always stated that it wasnt the Heats ability to score that killed them. It was their defense. Lebron James and Dwyane Wade included.

But you guys won't look at the defensive side of the ball. Its not that important. Why? It cost the Heat a championship in 2011

[greatest-ever]

I see 97 Bulls here spewing his usual biased disingenuous anti-wade nonsense.

[GrapeApe]

I actually agree. I've always stated that it wasnt the Heats ability to score that killed them. It was their defense. Lebron James and Dwyane Wade included.

But you guys won't look at the defensive side of the ball. Its not that important. Why? It cost the Heat a championship in 2011

It's interesting you pointed out the defense because an argument can be made that Lebron was just as bad defensively as he was offensively. When I've explained why his poor performance went beyond his overall numbers, his defense is one of the biggest culprits. He was disengaged on that end for much of the series, especially games 4-6. I don't know if it was psychological or what, but in the 4 years he was in Miami I've never seen him look so lost on the defensive end.

That being said, the entire team (Wade included) shares much of the blame on defense, and a lot of it is on Spo and his antiquated defensive philosophy. That was the first time we really saw it exposed. One thing that is rarely mentioned about that series is how badly Rick Carlisle outcoached Spo.

[Wade's Rings]

What year? Im not saying you're wrong. I just want proof. Trust but verify

http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/2009-nba-eastern-conference-finals-magic-vs-cavaliers.html


He didn't have more help.

Orlando as a team shot 48% from the field and 41% from 3...(152 3PA)

Dallas as a team shot 42% and 28% from 3...(116 3PA)

there's your answer.

Wade's 2nd & 3rd Options: 27.5/15.7/5/1.2/1.3

Lebron's 2nd & 3rd Options: 32.8/7.8/7.5/2.7/.8

:eek: Bron doing less with more

[aj1987]

Exactly
Yeah, MJ literally carried Robin to 6 rings. Dude would've been a glorified Iggy (minus the FMVP), if it wasn't for MJ.


What year? Im not saying you're wrong. I just want proof. Trust but verify
How do you not remember the Magic series?

[97 bulls]

Yeah, MJ literally carried Robin to 6 rings. Dude would've been a glorified Iggy (minus the FMVP), if it wasn't for MJ.


How do you not remember the Magic series?
Im not a big Magic or Cavs fan. And again. Wade like Pippen. Had the best player in the game for four seasons and lost two championships. Three had Ray Allen not bailed the Heat out in 2013. So its obviously not as easy as you try to make it. Pippen has never lost with homecourt Wade has. You cant say that any Pippen led team underacheived. We can say that for Wade.

Put the 94 Bulls in the sorry ass Eastern conference in 06 and theyd have won the championship as well.

[Wade's Rings]

Im not a big Magic or Cavs fan. And again. Wade like Pippen. Had the best player in the game for four seasons and lost two championships. Three had Ray Allen not bailed the Heat out in 2013. So its obviously not as easy as you try to make it. Jordan has never lost with homecourt Wade has. You cant say that any Pippen led team underacheived. We can say that for Wade.

Fixed that for you.


Put the 94 Bulls in the sorry ass Eastern conference in 06 and theyd have won the championship as well.

Pippen is going shoot 62% vs the 5th Best Defense in Pistons? Pippen is going to put up 28 points on 49% shooting vs the 4th Best Defense in the Nets? Pippen is going to have that incredible series vs the Mavs? :oldlol:
BTW the Pistons won 64 Games and were the Best Team record wise in the League.

This guy is going down to Dubeta level troll :facepalm

[97 bulls]

Fixed that for you.
Pippen as well. If I remember correct. Pippen is I believe seventh in alltime win percentage. Better than Jordan's. And far better than your boy Wades.



Pippen is going shoot 62% vs the 5th Best Defense in Pistons? Pippen is going to put up 28 points on 49% shooting vs the 4th Best Defense in the Nets? Pippen is going to have that incredible series vs the Mavs? :oldlol:
Lol. Why does Pippen have to win like Wade? Pip could drop 20/8/7 and dominate on defense like a center. Ask Magic Johnson and John Stockton.



BTW the Pistons won 64 Games and were the Best Team record wise in the League.
Woop-de-damn-do. The Eastern Conference sucked. What about 07 vs Chicago? Or 2011? Or 2014? Or last year?????? And the funny thing is.... I predicted that the Heat would underachieve. And even I didnt think they'd be that bad. With all that talent????? In the East??????? Go on and fall back on the 43 win 2009 season and the 2006 championship like usual

[aj1987]

Im not a big Magic or Cavs fan. And again. Wade like Pippen. Had the best player in the game for four seasons and lost two championships. Three had Ray Allen not bailed the Heat out in 2013. So its obviously not as easy as you try to make it. Jordan has never lost with homecourt Wade has. You cant say that any Jordan led team underacheived. We can say that for Wade.
FTFY (dude before me already did it though).

Again, Pippen would be a glorified Iggy with ZERO rings, if he didn't get to play with the GOAT. Actually, he could've won, playing sidekick to Hakeem or someone else.


Put the 94 Bulls in the sorry ass Eastern conference in 06 and theyd have won the championship as well.
2 absolutely retarded posts in the same thread? :roll:

Didn't Mr. Migraine average something 19 PPG on 37% shooting in the final 3 games of the '94 ECSF? Dude would've lost to the Pistons in 5.

Beta gonna beta.

[aj1987]

Pippen as well. If I remember correct. Pippen is I believe seventh in alltime win percentage. Better than Jordan's. And far better than your boy Wades.
You do realize that Pippen literally played with the GOAT during his prime/peak and then played on the stacked Blazers, right? Or do you not know your own idols playing history?


Lol. Why does Pippen have to win like Wade? Pip could drop 20/8/7 and dominate on defense like a center. Ask Magic Johnson and John Stockton.
Rip shot 38%. If Pippen lead that Heat team, they would've lost in 5.




Woop-de-damn-do. The Eastern Conference sucked. What about 07 vs Chicago? Or 2011? Or 2014? Or last year?????? And the funny thing is.... I predicted that the Heat would underachieve. And even I didnt think they'd be that bad. With all that talent????? In the East??????? Go on and fall back on the 43 win 2009 season and the 2006 championship like usual
64 win team, you retarded ****. Wade was injured in '07 and flat out sucked in '14. Having the GOAT or anyone who can score more than 2 points in the 4th would've helped in '11. Meanwhile, Migraine boy sits the last play because his coach didn't draw up the last play for him. That's the definition of beta. Coach not drawing up the last play for the team's "best" player.

[97 bulls]

You do realize that Pippen literally played with the GOAT during his prime/peak and then played on the stacked Blazers, right? Or do you not know your own idols playing history?
Yep. I also realize that Wade has played with some damn good players as well. Alltime greats even. At the very least he colluded with the best player in the league and another top 10 player and still couldn't win like Pippen. Shaq was the best player in the league when he joined Miami and they only got one controversial championship. He still wasn't as successful as Pip. Again even losing to teams he had no business losing to.



Rip shot 38%. If Pippen lead that Heat team, they would've lost in 5.
Pippen would've shut down the team. And his man. As well as chip in 20 pts 8 rebounds and 7 or 8 assists.





64 win team, you retarded ****. Wade was injured in '07 and flat out sucked in '14. Having the GOAT or anyone who can score more than 2 points in the 4th would've helped in '11.
If he were hurt he shouldn't have played. What about last year? Dont blame everyone else for Wades failures. He just obviously wasn't good enough.


Meanwhile, Migraine boy sits the last play because his coach didn't draw up the last play for him. That's the definition of beta. Coach not drawing up the last play for the team's "best" player.
Whoa beta???? Wade relinquished his role as the team leader because by his own admission he wasn't good enough. Not the coach or owner or GM or his teammates by vote. He did. He may as well have given his wife as well.

[dubeta]

Yep. I also realize that Wade has played with some damn good players as well. Alltime greats even. At the very least he colluded with the best player in the league and another top 10 player and still couldn't win like Pippen. Shaq was the best player in the league when he joined Miami and they only got one controversial championship. He still wasn't as successful as Pip. Again even losing to teams he had no business losing to.



Pippen would've shut down the team. And his man. As well as chip in 20 pts 8 rebounds and 7 or 8 assists.





If he were hurt he shouldn't have played. What about last year? Dont blame everyone else for Wades failures. He just obviously wasn't good enough.


Whoa beta???? Wade relinquished his role as the team leader because by his own admission he wasn't good enough. Not the coach or owner or GM or his teammates by vote. He did. He may as well have given his wife as well.


:applause:

[dubeta]

You guys DO realize that Pippens worst finals are still better than any finals Wade had from 2012-2014? And that doesnt even include Pippens defensive impact




Also Pippen definately doesnt lose in 2011 with Prime LeBron like Wade does

[JT123]

97 bulls straight up embarrassing these Wade stans. :oldlol: :lol
The best part is he isn't doing it with lies or extreme exaggerations, but just spitting the straight up truth. He has even educated me. Pippen has now officially replaced Wade in my top 30 all time. :eek:

[Hey Yo]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/2009-nba-eastern-conference-finals-magic-vs-cavaliers.html



Wade's 2nd & 3rd Options: 27.5/15.7/5/1.2/1.3

Lebron's 2nd & 3rd Options: 32.8/7.8/7.5/2.7/.8

:eek: Bron doing less with more
Yeah...that +5pt differential and -7 in rebounds is huge considering:

Orlando as a team shot 48% from the field and 41% from 3...(152 3PA)

Dallas as a team shot 42% and 28% from 3...(116 3PA)

LeBron 38-8-8 against Orlando.... but he did less with more.

:rolleyes: ...give it up, chico

[aj1987]

Yep. I also realize that Wade has played with some damn good players as well. Alltime greats even. At the very least he colluded with the best player in the league and another top 10 player and still couldn't win like Pippen. Shaq was the best player in the league when he joined Miami and they only got one controversial championship. He still wasn't as successful as Pip. Again even losing to teams he had no business losing to.
I've told you this probably a millions times, but you're dense AF. Shaq wasn't in his prime. Pippen ONLY won because he played with the GOAT almost through his entire career.


Pippen would've shut down the team. And his man. As well as chip in 20 pts 8 rebounds and 7 or 8 assists.
And still would've lost.


If he were hurt he shouldn't have played. What about last year? Dont blame everyone else for Wades failures. He just obviously wasn't good enough.
:biggums:

He shouldn't have played? What kind of retarded logic is that? I do blame Wade for '14.

Do you even watch basketball? From your statements, it's pretty obvious that you never did and still don't. The Heat team was garbage last season. They ran like 30+ different lineups.


Whoa beta???? Wade relinquished his role as the team leader because by his own admission he wasn't good enough. Not the coach or owner or GM or his teammates by vote. He did. He may as well have given his wife as well.
Or maybe he realized that he wasn't going to win with LeBron playing like he did.

Look up the definition of beta in the dictionary and you'll find Pippen's picture next to it.


Wade >>>>> Mr. Migraine.

[greatest-ever]

97 bulls straight up embarrassing these Wade stans. :oldlol: :lol
The best part is he isn't doing it with lies or extreme exaggerations, but just spitting the straight up truth. He has even educated me. Pippen has now officially replaced Wade in my top 30 all time. :eek:
Yeah i guess if you're naive and gullible. He doesn't spit any truth, he just spews biased drivel about how Wade is overrated and acts like Wade was garbage outside of the 06 finals and that is far from the truth. Personally i don't even bother arguing with him because he's disingenuous and lacks objectivity when it comes to Wade discussions.

[97 bulls]

I've told you this probably a millions times, but you're dense AF. Shaq wasn't in his prime. Pippen ONLY won because he played with the GOAT almost through his entire career.
I never argued against Pippen winning cuz he had Jordan. Jordan won cuz he had Pippen. I told you 2 million times that Wade had two top 10 all-time great players and only managed to win 3 championships. So yours is a whack argument. And lets not even mention that Wade would've been second fiddle to Jordan as well.

How well did both players fair when they didn't have great players alongside them???????





He shouldn't have played? What kind of retarded logic is that? I do blame Wade for '14.
Get a clue. He wasn't injured, he was playing hurt. Almost all players are banged up by the time the playoffs role around. You act like he was the only player hurt by the time the playoffs role around. I got news for you, just about everyone is banged up come playoff time.


Do you even watch basketball? From your statements, it's pretty obvious that you never did and still don't. The Heat team was garbage last season. They ran like 30+ different lineups.
Lol. Just about every team in the East was garbage. Hell it was no secret that teams were tanking THE WHOLE SEASON for AN OPPORTUNITY to get a better draft position. And make no mistake. The Heat sucked all year. From beginning to end. None of those 30+ lineups yielded success.





Or maybe he realized that he wasn't going to win with LeBron playing like he did.
Well that's not what HE said. Wade hinself said that he must submit (like a female opening her legs to a man) to Lebron James. And readily gave up his status on the Heat.

[AlphaWolf24]

I never argued against Pippen winning cuz he had Jordan. Jordan won cuz he had Pippen. I told you 2 million times that Wade had two top 10 all-time great players and only managed to win 3 championships. So yours is a whack argument. And lets not even mention that Wade would've been second fiddle to Jordan as well.

How well did both players fair when they didn't have great players alongside them???????





Get a clue. He wasn't injured, he was playing hurt. Almost all players are banged up by the time the playoffs role around. You act like he was the only player hurt by the time the playoffs role around. I got news for you, just about everyone is banged up come playoff time.


Lol. Just about every team in the East was garbage. Hell it was no secret that teams were tanking THE WHOLE SEASON for AN OPPORTUNITY to get a better draft position. And make no mistake. The Heat sucked all year. From beginning to end. None of those 30+ lineups yielded success.





Well that's not what HE said. Wade hinself said that he must submit (like a female opening her legs to a man) to Lebron James. And readily gave up his status on the Heat.

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn242/PhancyPhantsyKUSHMan/ether.gif
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_lWET_BXRU9c/SzrN9FUIpEI/AAAAAAAAD78/xKabShqUhw4/s400/george7.gif

[aj1987]

I never argued against Pippen winning cuz he had Jordan. Jordan won cuz he had Pippen. I told you 2 million times that Wade had two top 10 all-time great players and only managed to win 3 championships. So yours is a whack argument. And lets not even mention that Wade would've been second fiddle to Jordan as well.
:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

Shaq WASN'T in his prime. How ****ing hard is that to understand? According to your retarded logic, Pippen lost with a top 10 player and another top ~15 player in '99.

:roll: @ MJ won because he had Pippen.


How well did both players fair when they didn't have great players alongside them???????
Wade took the Heat to the second round as a ROOKIE and hit 2 game winners in the PO's. That was basically the only time he had a decent team without Shaq/LeBron.


Get a clue. He wasn't injured, he was playing hurt. Almost all players are banged up by the time the playoffs role around. You act like he was the only player hurt by the time the playoffs role around. I got news for you, just about everyone is banged up come playoff time.
You are a special kind of idiot.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2774642
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2775853
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=heatwade

He had shoulder and knee surgeries right after the PO's in 2007. Dude played on a bum knee and shoulder, which required surgeries. What does Pippen do? He sits because of headaches.


Lol. Just about every team in the East was garbage. Hell it was no secret that teams were tanking THE WHOLE SEASON for AN OPPORTUNITY to get a better draft position. And make no mistake. The Heat sucked all year. From beginning to end. None of those 30+ lineups yielded success.
Are you trying to imply that Pippen would've won more on this Heat team? A past him prime Pippen none the less.


Well that's not what HE said. Wade hinself said that he must submit (like a female opening her legs to a man) to Lebron James. And readily gave up his status on the Heat.
Still better than being an absolute beta bitch throughout his career. As I said, Pippen's picture is next to the words sidekick, robin, and beta in the dictionary.

"I wanted to give him the opportunity where he didn't have to think about that. It's kind of like I told him, 'Listen, I'll find my way. Don't worry about me. I'll be there. But you go out and be the player that we want you to be.'"

Wade literally said LeBron can't adapt, so I will.

http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2012/story/_/id/7929717/nba-playoffs-wade-huge-sacrifice-lebron

Oh, and one ore:

"Frankly, that's what much of the world thought their experience as teammates would be, two players with seemingly limitless potential trying to match each other on the floor, neither one willing to accept the Scottie Pippen role. Just a couple of Jordans trying to make it work."

:roll: :roll:

Beta gonna beta.

[GrapeApe]

97 bulls straight up embarrassing these Wade stans. :oldlol: :lol
The best part is he isn't doing it with lies or extreme exaggerations, but just spitting the straight up truth. He has even educated me. Pippen has now officially replaced Wade in my top 30 all time. :eek:

Are you kidding me? :oldlol:

What you said is literally the exact opposite of the truth. People defending Wade are basing their argument on stats, facts, and tangible things that actually occurred. Meanwhile 97 bulls is countering those arguments with profound statements such as "whoop dee doo" and subjective hypotheticals.

I feel legitimately sorry for you if that's how you are "educated".

[97 bulls]

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

Shaq WASN'T in his prime. How ****ing hard is that to understand? According to your retarded logic, Pippen lost with a top 10 player and another top ~15 player in '99.
Shaq was still by far the best center in the league bar none. And a top 10 player. Stop acting like Wade got Michael Olowokandi.


:roll: @ MJ won because he had Pippen.
How many championships did Jordan have before Pippen arrived?????



Wade took the Heat to the second round as a ROOKIE and hit 2 game winners in the PO's. That was basically the only time he had a decent team without Shaq/LeBron.
Great. What about the times his teams underachieved???? What about last year?



http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2774642
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2775853
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=heatwade

He had shoulder and knee surgeries right after the PO's in 2007. Dude played on a bum knee and shoulder, which required surgeries. What does Pippen do? He sits because of headaches.
Actually he didn't sit. He played 42 minutes if I remember correct. I'm not denying that Wade was hurt (he was very brittle), my point is that he played and the Heat were favored to win. You go down a slippery slope when you use the injury argument. Im sure Wade and his team have benefited from beating teams that were missing key parts of their team or had players playing with nagging injuries. Should their championships loose credibility because of that????



Are you trying to imply that Pippen would've won more on this Heat team? A past him prime Pippen none the less.
Don't know how you arrived at that conclusion.




"I wanted to give him the opportunity where he didn't have to think about that. It's kind of like I told him, 'Listen, I'll find my way. Don't worry about me. I'll be there. But you go out and be the player that we want you to be.'"

Wade literally said LeBron can't adapt, so I will.
Translation. "We cant win with me as the leader so imma give it to Lebron."

Oh, and one ore:


"Frankly, that's what much of the world thought their experience as teammates would be, two players with seemingly limitless potential trying to match each other on the floor, neither one willing to accept the Scottie Pippen role. Just a couple of Jordans trying to make it work."
Ok. But they weren't winning so Wade stopped trying to be a backseat driver and let James take it.
:roll: :roll:

Beta gonna beta.[/QUOTE]

[97 bulls]

Are you kidding me? :oldlol:

What you said is literally the exact opposite of the truth. People defending Wade are basing their argument on stats, facts, and tangible things that actually occurred. Meanwhile 97 bulls is countering those arguments with profound statements such as "whoop dee doo" and subjective hypotheticals.

I feel legitimately sorry for you if that's how you are "educated".
This is the only time I'm gonna entertain this type of nonsense. What have I stated that wasn't the truth???;

[SouBeachTalents]

How many championships did Jordan have before Pippen arrived?????

How many championships did LeBron have before Wade?

[GrapeApe]

This is the only time I'm gonna entertain this type of nonsense. What have I stated that wasn't the truth???;

I never said you are flat out lying or making up stats, facts, etc, but you have proposed hypotheticals such as what Pippen would do in Wade's place (e.g. ECF against Detroit). That is 100% conjecture whereas Wade has ACTUALLY DONE the things being discussed. A lot of you're arguments seem to be based on "what Pippen could have done" rather than what he actually did. We have no idea how Pippen would have performed in Wade's place. It's ridiculous to assume Pippen could do the things Wade did since at no point in Pippen's career did we actually see him do those types of things. Few players ever have.

BTW, my comment wasn't so much directed at you as that idiot troll JT whatever. I don't completely dismiss all of your arguments, I just think some of them are flawed in basis. I'm a Pippen fan and I've always defended him when Jordan stans attempt to trash him.

[aj1987]

Shaq was still by far the best center in the league bar none. And a top 10 player. Stop acting like Wade got Michael Olowokandi.
The best C in the league and runner-up MVP couldn't win a game without Wade in the ECF and averaged 14/10 in the '06 Finals.


How many championships did Jordan have before Pippen arrived?????
How many rings did Pippen win after MJ?
How many rings did LeBron win before coming to the Heat?
How many rings did Magic win without Kareem?


Great. What about the times his teams underachieved???? What about last year?
What about last year? Past his prime Wade, a shitty Coach, a horrible team which was plagued with injures, etc.. A 33 year old Pippen would've done MUCH MUCH worse than Wade. Would've probably won ~25 games max. Dude was averaging like 15/6/6 on 43% shooting in his 12th season in the league. Not only that, lets not forget that Pippen was playing with a top 10 GOAT and a top 15 GOAT that season and couldn't even get past the first round.



Actually he didn't sit. He played 42 minutes if I remember correct. I'm not denying that Wade was hurt (he was very brittle), my point is that he played and the Heat were favored to win. You go down a slippery slope when you use the injury argument. Im sure Wade and his team have benefited from beating teams that were missing key parts of their team or had players playing with nagging injuries. Should their championships loose credibility because of that????
A 44 win Heat team with an INJURED Wade, injuries which required surgeries (two of them), and a washed up Shaq were favored against a 49 win Bulls team? I definitely do not remember that. You do know that the Heat team was hot garbage outside and injured Wade and injured/washed up Shaq, right?


Translation. "We cant win with me as the leader so imma give it to Lebron."
Is English not your first language. Read the article. Wade was clearly insinuating that LeBron and Wade taking turns wasn't working and that he (Wade) was willing to adapt, as LeBron wasn't

""I read Twitter," Wade said. "When I turn on the TV, I know everything comes back to LeBron James being a punch line. It's just everything that piles up, and I'm like, 'How does he deal with it without having, really, someone who can be his outlet?'
I'm the closest thing to his outlet, and sometimes I don't get it."

So Wade's goal became simple. Make LeBron comfortable.

If he doesn't have a safe place within his own team, where would he find one?
And you know what makes LeBron comfortable? Dominating on the basketball court.
Not waiting his turn to dominate. Just doing it as often as possible. Putting up MVP performances.

The moment of clarity Wade had in early January would help make LeBron completely relax. Even after LeBron insisted coming into the season that he was a new, improved man, it would still take Wade's concession to make LeBron really feel like himself in Miami."

Wade was willing to adapt as he knew that LeBron wouldn't/couldn't


Ok. But they weren't winning so Wade stopped trying to be a backseat driver and
They won 58 games, destroyed the MVP, who was on a 60 win team, beat another 56 win team, and absolutely tore apart the #1, #2, and #7 defenses. The Heat were literally one Wade missed 3 (game 2) and an epic choke from LeBron away from winning the championship.

Please tell me how they were not winning...?

[dubeta]

Wade had Prime LeBron, and still lost in the Finals.. :roll: :roll:

[GrapeApe]

Wade had Prime LeBron, and still lost in the Finals.. :roll: :roll:

Think REAL HARD about what you just said. :oldlol:

[aj1987]

Think REAL HARD about what you just said. :oldlol:
:roll: :roll:

I think his tiny head will explode if he thinks too hard.

[catch24]

97 Bulls honestly thinks Pippen > Wade, and that Pippen's impact is basically equal to Jordan's.

Seriously. Why else would anyone ask what Jordan did before acquiring Pippen.

:oldlol:

[dubeta]

Think REAL HARD about what you just said. :oldlol:



That Wade underperformed? :confusedshrug:


Problem?

[GrapeApe]

97 Bulls honestly thinks Pippen > Wade, and that Pippen's impact is basically equal to Jordan's.

Seriously. Why else would anyone ask what Jordan did before acquiring Pippen.

:oldlol:

I'll say this about him though, he appears to be a legit Pippen fan. I'll give him credit for that. Almost everyone else who props up Pippen does so with an anti-Jordan agenda, usually Lebron or Kobe stans.

[ArbitraryWater]

97 Bulls is full of shit

[97 bulls]

The best C in the league and runner-up MVP couldn't win a game without Wade in the ECF and averaged 14/10 in the '06 Finals.


How many rings did Pippen win after MJ?
How many rings did LeBron win before coming to the Heat?
How many rings did Magic win without Kareem?
Again. Im not nor have I ever implied less. Im a huge proponent of team. Nobody wins without a great deal of help. But if one of your arguments against Pippen vs Wade is that he only won because he had Jordan, then my reply is gonna be that he had Shaq and James. Don't know why this is so hard to grasp.



What about last year? Past his prime Wade, a shitty Coach, a horrible team which was plagued with injures, etc.. A 33 year old Pippen would've done MUCH MUCH worse than Wade. Would've probably won ~25 games max. Dude was averaging like 15/6/6 on 43% shooting in his 12th season in the league. Not only that, lets not forget that Pippen was playing with a top 10 GOAT and a top 15 GOAT that season and couldn't even get past the first round.
They were beaten by a team that wws better than them. Not so with the Wade led Heat multiple times.




A 44 win Heat team with an INJURED Wade, injuries which required surgeries (two of them), and a washed up Shaq were favored against a 49 win Bulls team? I definitely do not remember that. You do know that the Heat team was hot garbage outside and injured Wade and injured/washed up Shaq, right?
Oh god stop with the injuries excuses. They are a part of the game. If you're in the court I dont wanna hear the excuses. You think every team the Heat have played were 100 percent healthy?


Is English not your first language. Read the article. Wade was clearly insinuating that LeBron and Wade taking turns wasn't working and that he (Wade) was willing to adapt, as LeBron wasn't

""I read Twitter," Wade said. "When I turn on the TV, I know everything comes back to LeBron James being a punch line. It's just everything that piles up, and I'm like, 'How does he deal with it without having, really, someone who can be his outlet?'
I'm the closest thing to his outlet, and sometimes I don't get it."

So Wade's goal became simple. Make LeBron comfortable.

If he doesn't have a safe place within his own team, where would he find one?
And you know what makes LeBron comfortable? Dominating on the basketball court.
Not waiting his turn to dominate. Just doing it as often as possible. Putting up MVP performances.

The moment of clarity Wade had in early January would help make LeBron completely relax. Even after LeBron insisted coming into the season that he was a new, improved man, it would still take Wade's concession to make LeBron really feel like himself in Miami."

Wade was willing to adapt as he knew that LeBron wouldn't/couldn't


They won 58 games, destroyed the MVP, who was on a 60 win team, beat another 56 win team, and absolutely tore apart the #1, #2, and #7 defenses. The Heat were literally one Wade missed 3 (game 2) and an epic choke from LeBron away from winning the championship.

Please tell me how they were not winning...?
Im referring to championships. You said yourself that Wade felt that something needed to change because they were winning championships. No matter how you want to word it. Wade relinquished his role. Because he felt they wouldn't have won. All "Alphas" get their status taken from them. Wade submitted.

Remember these are your arguments. Wade is better than Pippen because.he was an "Alpha". But then you want ti give Wade credit for taking a "beat" role???? Whats more choosing to do so??? Come on.

[GrapeApe]

That Wade underperformed? :confusedshrug:


Problem?

I didn't think I'd have to spell it out for you, but you also basically said prime Lebron lost in the finals with prime Wade. Which he did.

The difference is Wade's garbage finals performance happened past his prime. Lebron's happened in his prime. For all the shit Lebron stans talk about Wade's 2014 finals performance, Lebron wasn't much better in 2011, especially when you consider the difference in age. Then Lebron stans turn around and talk about how great he was in 2014 when Wade had nearly identical numbers in 2011.

[97 bulls]

97 Bulls honestly thinks Pippen > Wade, and that Pippen's impact is basically equal to Jordan's.

Seriously. Why else would anyone ask what Jordan did before acquiring Pippen.

:oldlol:
How ignorant can you be? Ok. Let me ask you a question. What did you see before Pippen and Grant were drafted by the Bulls that would lead you to believe Jordan didnt need great players to win???

[97 bulls]

I'll say this about him though, he appears to be a legit Pippen fan. I'll give him credit for that. Almost everyone else who props up Pippen does so with an anti-Jordan agenda, usually Lebron or Kobe stans.
Im a Bulls fan. I just take exception to these idiotic notions that players win Championships by themselves. And this seems to be the prevailing theme behind this discussion. Wade won on his own and Pippen won because he had Jordan.

[DMV2]

At age 23/24, Wade already positioned himself to be greater than Pippen ever was.

3 seasons with Shaq, 4 seasons with LeBron (7 seasons playing with a superstar) = 3 rings and 5 Finals appearances

I don't know but that's pretty damn impressive to me, especially amidst all the injuries he had in between.

[Papaya Petee]

97 Bulls says Wade was only elite in 06, 09, when a 2nd year Wade in 2005 was better than Pippen could even come close too.

24/7/5/2/1 regular season 59-23 record
27/7/5/2/1 playoffs and would of been in the finals if not for a freak injury.

[97 bulls]

I never said you are flat out lying or making up stats, facts, etc, but you have proposed hypotheticals such as what Pippen would do in Wade's place (e.g. ECF against Detroit).
No. The assumption was made that if Pippen was put in Wades position, he wouldn't have been able to score so much so efficiently. I honestly never disagreed. My response centers around the way Pippen dominates games. Here's the opposite end of the spectrum. 91 Finals game 2. Jordan gets into foul trouble guarding Magic late in the first. Pippen assumes the defensive assignment of guarding Magic and shuts him down while scoring 20/10. Put Wade in the same situation and hes gonna try to score as many points as he can. He may not have the same defensive result, but the extra points would offset it.


That is 100% conjecture whereas Wade has ACTUALLY DONE the things being discussed. A lot of you're arguments seem to be based on "what Pippen could have done" rather than what he actually did. We have no idea how Pippen would have performed in Wade's place. It's ridiculous to assume Pippen could do the things Wade did since at no point in Pippen's career did we actually see him do those types of things. Few players ever have.
Im allowing you guys to dictate this discussion. And all of it is based on conjecture. What is your argument against Pippen vs Wade? Wade won a championship as the man right? Something Pippen never had a fair chance to prove. We don't know how Pippen would do. You saying he couldn't is conjecture. So stick with facts. Wade was in Pippens role in Miami and lost twice. Pippen never did. Pippen has accomplished more in the NBA than Wade. These are facts.

BTW, my comment wasn't so much directed at you as that idiot troll JT whatever. I don't completely dismiss all of your arguments, I just think some of them are flawed in basis. I'm a Pippen fan and I've always defended him when Jordan stans attempt to trash him.[/QUOTE]

[97 bulls]

97 Bulls says Wade was only elite in 06, 09, when a 2nd year Wade in 2005 was better than Pippen could even come close too.

24/7/5/2/1 regular season 59-23 record
27/7/5/2/1 playoffs and would of been in the finals if not for a freak injury.
This is an objective opinion????? Unbelievable.

[SouBeachTalents]

This is an objective opinion????? Unbelievable.

Bruh, you really think Pippen could average 27-28 ppg in the playoffs?

[97 bulls]

Bruh, you really think Pippen could average 27-28 ppg in the playoffs?
No. But that doesn't mean hed have any less impact. Do you think Wade can be or has ever been as dominant as Pippen defensively?

[KembaWalker]

Damn this thread still going huh :sleeping

[ArbitraryWater]

A 2nd year Wade was better than Pippen ever was, I think we should leave it here.

[aj1987]

Again. Im not nor have I ever implied less. Im a huge proponent of team. Nobody wins without a great deal of help. But if one of your arguments against Pippen vs Wade is that he only won because he had Jordan, then my reply is gonna be that he had Shaq and James. Don't know why this is so hard to grasp.
Ugh. Look like it's back to repeating myself. Let me make it even more simple. Replace Shaq with any good center and Wade wins. Pippen, OTOH? Not so much. Dude would be ringless without the GOAT.


They were beaten by a team that wws better than them. Not so with the Wade led Heat multiple times.
When was that again?

'05? The Pistons were on the same tier and Wade was absolutely shredding them until his injury.
'07? The Bulls were better.
'09? The Hawks were better.
'10? The Celtics were better.
'11? LeBron.
'14? The Spurs were better.

Literally the only two times he should've actually won, he lost because of injury and LeBron not showing up.

Also, good job ignoring all my points. Care to refute any of these?

What about last year? Past his prime Wade, a shitty Coach, a horrible team which was plagued with injures, etc.. A 33 year old Pippen would've done MUCH MUCH worse than Wade. Would've probably won ~25 games max. Dude was averaging like 15/6/6 on 43% shooting in his 12th season in the league. Not only that, lets not forget that Pippen was playing with a top 10 GOAT and a top 15 GOAT that season and couldn't even get past the first round.

Also, in '94, Pippen scored 22/8/5 on 40%. Dude was terrible. He had 2 players averaging 17 PPG on near 62% TS and he still managed to lose. 19 PPG on 41% the very next year. This is not a washed up Pippen I'm talking about either. 16 PPG on 34% in the '96 Finals. When has Wade EVER won a series shooting 34%? ANY series. Not just the Finals.


Oh god stop with the injuries excuses. They are a part of the game. If you're in the court I dont wanna hear the excuses. You think every team the Heat have played were 100 percent healthy?
Being banged up is different from playing on a damaged knee and a dislocated shoulder, which required surgeries, idiot. How do you not get that?


Im referring to championships. You said yourself that Wade felt that something needed to change because they were winning championships. No matter how you want to word it. Wade relinquished his role. Because he felt they wouldn't have won. All "Alphas" get their status taken from them. Wade submitted.

Remember these are your arguments. Wade is better than Pippen because.he was an "Alpha". But then you want ti give Wade credit for taking a "beat" role???? Whats more choosing to do so??? Come on.
The **** are you even talking about, you moron?

Is English not your first language. Read the article. Wade was clearly insinuating that LeBron and Wade taking turns wasn't working and that he (Wade) was willing to adapt, as LeBron wasn't.

""I read Twitter," Wade said. "When I turn on the TV, I know everything comes back to LeBron James being a punch line. It's just everything that piles up, and I'm like, 'How does he deal with it without having, really, someone who can be his outlet?'
I'm the closest thing to his outlet, and sometimes I don't get it."

So Wade's goal became simple. Make LeBron comfortable.

If he doesn't have a safe place within his own team, where would he find one?
And you know what makes LeBron comfortable? Dominating on the basketball court.
Not waiting his turn to dominate. Just doing it as often as possible. Putting up MVP performances.

The moment of clarity Wade had in early January would help make LeBron completely relax. Even after LeBron insisted coming into the season that he was a new, improved man, it would still take Wade's concession to make LeBron really feel like himself in Miami."

Wade was willing to adapt as he knew that LeBron wouldn't/couldn't


They won 58 games, destroyed the MVP, who was on a 60 win team, beat another 56 win team, and absolutely tore apart the #1, #2, and #7 defenses. The Heat were literally one Wade missed 3 (game 2) and an epic choke from LeBron away from winning the championship.

Please tell me how they were not winning...?

Read that shit. I know it's hard for you, but please try.

[dubeta]

Again. Im not nor have I ever implied less. Im a huge proponent of team. Nobody wins without a great deal of help. But if one of your arguments against Pippen vs Wade is that he only won because he had Jordan, then my reply is gonna be that he had Shaq and James. Don't know why this is so hard to grasp.



They were beaten by a team that wws better than them. Not so with the Wade led Heat multiple times.




Oh god stop with the injuries excuses. They are a part of the game. If you're in the court I dont wanna hear the excuses. You think every team the Heat have played were 100 percent healthy?


Im referring to championships. You said yourself that Wade felt that something needed to change because they were winning championships. No matter how you want to word it. Wade relinquished his role. Because he felt they wouldn't have won. All "Alphas" get their status taken from them. Wade submitted.

Remember these are your arguments. Wade is better than Pippen because.he was an "Alpha". But then you want ti give Wade credit for taking a "beat" role???? Whats more choosing to do so??? Come on.


Agree STRONGLY with the Bolded :applause:

[97 bulls]

Ugh. Look like it's back to repeating myself. Let me make it even more simple. Replace Shaq with any good center and Wade wins. Pippen, OTOH? Not so much. Dude would be ringless without the GOAT.
This isnt conjecture Grape Ape????? Where are the facts?

Anyway.... we actually got to see how the Bulls would fair without Jordan. And without a viable replacement like with your Shaq scenario. The Bulls won.55 games and lost a hard fought seven game series on a bad call. There's no doubt in my mind that the Bulls win with a good SG.




'05? The Pistons were on the same tier and Wade was absolutely shredding them until his injury.
'07? The Bulls were better.
'09? The Hawks were better.
'10? The Celtics were better.
'11? LeBron.
'14? The Spurs were better.
The Heat had Heat were favored to beat the Bulls in 07. And if im not mistaken, the Heat were swept. You can blame James all you want but Wade lost too in 2011. And the Heat were favored. And let's not even get on last years debacle. How many times can you say a Pippen lee team underachieved? Hell any team Pippen played on.


Literally the only two times he should've actually won, he lost because of injury and LeBron not showing up.
Then that's two times more than Pippen ever has.


What about last year? Past his prime Wade, a shitty Coach, a horrible team which was plagued with injures, etc..
Lol. Whatever bro. They still shouldn't have been that bad. I mean. Teams were actually trying to tank games and the Heat still sucked. Think about that.


A 33 year old Pippen would've done MUCH MUCH worse than Wade. Would've probably won ~25 games max. Dude was averaging like 15/6/6 on 43% shooting in his 12th season in the league. Not only that, lets not forget that Pippen was playing with a top 10 GOAT and a top 15 GOAT that season and couldn't even get past the first round.
Funny. You keep acting like Wade is the only player thats ever had to play injured. Pippen had three back surgeries himself over the course of his career. Why won't you take that into consideration??????



Being banged up is different from playing on a damaged knee and a dislocated shoulder, which required surgeries, idiot. How do you not get that?
I get it. You keep making excuse for Wade. Like he's the only mofo that's ever played hurt. Or played while needing surgery.


The **** are you even talking about, you moron?

Is English not your first language. Read the article. Wade was clearly insinuating that LeBron and Wade taking turns wasn't working and that he (Wade) was willing to adapt, as LeBron wasn't.

""I read Twitter," Wade said. "When I turn on the TV, I know everything comes back to LeBron James being a punch line. It's just everything that piles up, and I'm like, 'How does he deal with it without having, really, someone who can be his outlet?'
I'm the closest thing to his outlet, and sometimes I don't get it."

So Wade's goal became simple. Make LeBron comfortable.

If he doesn't have a safe place within his own team, where would he find one?
And you know what makes LeBron comfortable? Dominating on the basketball court.
Not waiting his turn to dominate. Just doing it as often as possible. Putting up MVP performances.

The moment of clarity Wade had in early January would help make LeBron completely relax. Even after LeBron insisted coming into the season that he was a new, improved man, it would still take Wade's concession to make LeBron really feel like himself in Miami."

Wade was willing to adapt as he knew that LeBron wouldn't/couldn't


They won 58 games, destroyed the MVP, who was on a 60 win team, beat another 56 win team, and absolutely tore apart the #1, #2, and #7 defenses. The Heat were literally one Wade missed 3 (game 2) and an epic choke from LeBron away from winning the championship.

Please tell me how they were not winning...?

Read that shit. I know it's hard for you, but please try.
I told you. Not winning championships. You even said yourself that them sharing whatever wasn't working. So Wade took the lesser role. We're saying the same thing. And even still, how does this undermine Pippens role on the Bulls. By your own admonition, Jordan is the greatest ever right? So Wade would've been the number two guy to Jordan as well. So what's the point?????

[aj1987]

This isnt conjecture Grape Ape????? Where are the facts?

Anyway.... we actually got to see how the Bulls would fair without Jordan. And without a viable replacement like with your Shaq scenario. The Bulls won.55 games and lost a hard fought seven game series on a bad call. There's no doubt in my mind that the Bulls win with the GOAT SG.
FTFY and I agree. Bulls would've definitely won with MJ.


The Heat had Heat were favored to beat the Bulls in 07. And if im not mistaken, the Heat were swept. You can blame James all you want but Wade lost too in 2011. And the Heat were favored. And let's not even get on last years debacle. How many times can you say a Pippen lee team underachieved? Hell any team Pippen played on.
Nope, the Heat with an injured Wade and washed up Shaq were NOT favored. Yeah, Wade did lose in '11. Never said otherwise. Context matters, you idiot. LeBron was absolutely terrible and was basically MIA in the 4th. Imagine MJ scoring 18 PPG in the Finals and and 2 PPG in the 4th Q's. How many would Pippen win?

Pippen has also never played on a team as bad as the '15 Heat. 12th season Pip would win 25 games at BEST on that team.


Then that's two times more than Pippen ever has.
As I said before, must be fun playing with the GOAT.


Lol. Whatever bro. They still shouldn't have been that bad. I mean. Teams were actually trying to tank games and the Heat still sucked. Think about that.
Sure and for the 20th time, 12th year Pippen would win no more than 25 games on that team.


Funny. You keep acting like Wade is the only player thats ever had to play injured. Pippen had three back surgeries himself over the course of his career. Why won't you take that into consideration??????
Didn't he have that surgery after the '98 season? Wade PUT OFF surgery to play in the PO's. The Heat considered shutting him down for the season, but he decided to play. I'm not even bringing up his knee issues, for which he had to get his knees regularly drained between playoff games. Needed knee surgery after the '12 Finals as well. Dude was playing on a bum knee again.


I get it. You keep making excuse for Wade. Like he's the only mofo that's ever played hurt. Or played while needing surgery.
I didn't say he was the only person who played despite requiring surgery.



I told you. Not winning championships. You even said yourself that them sharing whatever wasn't working. So Wade took the lesser role. We're saying the same thing. And even still, how does this undermine Pippens role on the Bulls. By your own admonition, Jordan is the greatest ever right? So Wade would've been the number two guy to Jordan as well. So what's the point?????
:facepalm

"I wanted to give him the opportunity where he didn't have to think about that. It's kind of like I told him, 'Listen, I'll find my way. Don't worry about me. I'll be there. But you go out and be the player that we want you to be.'"


Wade was basically telling LeBron not to compromise on his brand of basketball. Wade can play off-ball and is very good at it. LeBron? Not so much. Wade adapting to a different system would be much more easier than LeBron doing something which he has NEVER done.

You still haven't answered my question, BTW.

Also, in '94, Pippen scored 22/8/5 on 40%. Dude was terrible. He had 2 players averaging 17 PPG on near 62% TS and he still managed to lose. 19 PPG on 41% the very next year. This is not a washed up Pippen I'm talking about either. 16 PPG on 34% in the '96 Finals. When has Wade EVER won a series shooting 34%? ANY series. Not just the Finals.

Wade is a tier above Pippen as a player. It's not even close. Heck Wade's series against the Pistons in '06 >>>>> Any series Pippen EVER had.

[catch24]

How ignorant can you be? Ok. Let me ask you a question. What did you see before Pippen and Grant were drafted by the Bulls that would lead you to believe Jordan didnt need great players to win???

Jordan had bad teammates pre Pippen and Grant, while facing some of the GOAT teams. Everybody needs a decent supporting cast to compete. Obviously.

Now let me throw a few questions at you...

Who's the better player between prime Wade and Pippen?
Who had more impact between prime Jordan and Pippen?

[Wade's Rings]

Yeah...that +5pt differential and -7 in rebounds is huge considering:

Orlando as a team shot 48% from the field and 41% from 3...(152 3PA)

Dallas as a team shot 42% and 28% from 3...(116 3PA)

LeBron 38-8-8 against Orlando.... but he did less with more.

:rolleyes: ...give it up, chico

Wade's 2nd & 3rd Options scored 5 less points than Bron's.

Bron stays doing less with more :bowdown:

Lebron stays doing less with more :bowdown:


You are a special kind of idiot.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2774642
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2775853
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=heatwade

He had shoulder and knee surgeries right after the PO's in 2007. Dude played on a bum knee and shoulder, which required surgeries. What does Pippen do? He sits because of headaches.

Still better than being an absolute beta bitch throughout his career. As I said, Pippen's picture is next to the words sidekick, robin, and beta in the dictionary.

"I wanted to give him the opportunity where he didn't have to think about that. It's kind of like I told him, 'Listen, I'll find my way. Don't worry about me. I'll be there. But you go out and be the player that we want you to be.'"

Wade literally said LeBron can't adapt, so I will.

http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2012/story/_/id/7929717/nba-playoffs-wade-huge-sacrifice-lebron

Oh, and one ore:

"Frankly, that's what much of the world thought their experience as teammates would be, two players with seemingly limitless potential trying to match each other on the floor, neither one willing to accept the Scottie Pippen role. Just a couple of Jordans trying to make it work."

:roll: :roll:

Beta gonna beta.

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Kevin-Garnett-Reaction-at-2013-Dunk-Contest.gif


97 Bulls honestly thinks Pippen > Wade, and that Pippen's impact is basically equal to Jordan's.

Seriously. Why else would anyone ask what Jordan did before acquiring Pippen.

:oldlol:

This guy is a Dubeta level troll :facepalm

[dubeta]

All we know is that ANY version of 1990-1998 Pippen >>> 2012-2014 Wade

More points, rebounds, assists and far superior defense.

[97 bulls]

Jordan had bad teammates pre Pippen and Grant, while facing some of the GOAT teams. Everybody needs a decent supporting cast to compete. Obviously.
You gonna tell me BJ Armstrong l/Horace Grant were better than Orlando Woolridge/Charles Oakley??? The difference was Jordan had Pippen.



Now let me throw a few questions at you...

Who's the better player between prime Wade and Pippen?
Neither is better. Their impact is the same. They just went dominated in different ways.


Who had more impact between prime Jordan and Pippen?
No version of Pippen is better than any version of Bulls Jordan. The mid 90s Pippen was great and close to second threepeat. But he was never better or equal.

Now my question to you....
Do you think the 94 Bulls win the championship if they had Latrell Spreewell? Or a Mitch Richmond

[Straight_Ballin]

because lebron refused to contribute. standing in the opposite corner hiding.

basically forcing wade and the heat to go 4 on 5


/thread

Pretty much what was expected of Bron back then. Just look at Cavs vs Celtics. Has there ever before been a player that's taken that long in their career to realize that standing around during 4th qtrs is not the way to win a series?

[AlphaWolf24]

a few things I noticed....

we forget how good Prime Pippen was.....his defense was top shelf...and his offense was no joke....95' he was putting up great numbers and at times was dominating offensively.

2005 Shaq worked out all summer with a Navy Seal and dropped over 30lbs...

Shaq arriving in Miami 2005..

http://i.cdn.turner.com/drp/nba/heat/sites/default/files/styles/main_gallery_photo__480_tall/public/legacy/photos/hpg0405_vma_oneal3_0.jpg

compared to ..

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/98/ca/74/98ca7464b573bfd44898b5cae41a7f26.jpg

Shaq was in much better basketball shape during his time in Miami then he was since 00' in LA.....still near his prime....and a better player then 02' - 04' Shaq

[Wade's Rings]

a few things I noticed....

we forget how good Prime Pippen was.....his defense was top shelf...and his offense was no joke....95' he was putting up great numbers and at times was dominating offensively.

2005 Shaq worked out all summer with a Navy Seal and dropped over 30lbs...

Shaq arriving in Miami 2005..

http://i.cdn.turner.com/drp/nba/heat/sites/default/files/styles/main_gallery_photo__480_tall/public/legacy/photos/hpg0405_vma_oneal3_0.jpg

Shaq was in much better basketball shape during his time in Miami then he was since 00' in LA.....still near his prime....and a better player then 02' - 04' Shaq

Yet he got blown out without Wade in the 2005 Conference Finals :bowdown:

[dubeta]

Yet he got blown out without Wade in the 2005 Conference Finals :bowdown:

And Wade missed the playoffs right after Shaq left :bowdown:


WOAT dropoff :lol

[Wade's Rings]

And Wade missed the playoffs right after Shaq left :bowdown:


WOAT dropoff :lol

Shaq played for the Heat until the All-Star Break in 2008. He would've missed the Playoffs as well but he's not loyal and wanted to team hop...as a Bron stan I'm sure you relate.

[97 bulls]

Nope, the Heat with an injured Wade and washed up Shaq were NOT favored. Yeah, Wade did lose in '11. Never said otherwise. Context matters, you idiot. LeBron was absolutely terrible and was basically MIA in the 4th. Imagine MJ scoring 18 PPG in the Finals and and 2 PPG in the 4th Q's. How many would Pippen win?
Wade was trying to be Jordan. James statistically was Pippen. What you refuse to acknowledge is the defensive side if the ball. Thats where Pippen flat out dominated. Dont be so emotional. Stats arent everything.


Pippen has also never played on a team as bad as the '15 Heat. 12th season Pip would win 25 games at BEST on that team.
Lol. The Heat had a lot if talent. Bosh, Deng, a young stud in Whiteside, Haslem, Chalmers, Dragic. Are you insane???? 37 wins???? In the Eastern Conference?????? Is the talent the Heat had last year that far off from the 00 Portland Trailblazer team that Pippen led to the WCF vs the 67 win Shaq/Kobe Lakers????? At the least the Heat should've been .500. The 34 year old Pippen led that team to 59 wins. In the Western conference.



Sure and for the 20th time, 12th year Pippen would win no more than 25 games on that team.
Refer to the 00 Blazer.



Didn't he have that surgery after the '98 season? Wade PUT OFF surgery to play in the PO's. The Heat considered shutting him down for the season, but he decided to play. I'm not even bringing up his knee issues, for which he had to get his knees regularly drained between playoff games. Needed knee surgery after the '12 Finals as well. Dude was playing on a bum knee again.
Pippen player hurt in 96 (a season you hold against him) 97, and 98. He had surgery in I believe 90, 92, and 98.


I didn't say he was the only person who played despite requiring surgery.
I know. But you're using it as an excuse. My point is you shouldn't. Because Wade and teams hes been on have also benefited from playing injured teams. By injured, I mean key players not playing. You cant see that because you're too biased.



:facepalm

"I wanted to give him the opportunity where he didn't have to think about that. It's kind of like I told him, 'Listen, I'll find my way. Don't worry about me. I'll be there. But you go out and be the player that we want you to be.'"


Wade was basically telling LeBron not to compromise on his brand of basketball. Wade can play off-ball and is very good at it. LeBron? Not so much. Wade adapting to a different system would be much more easier than LeBron doing something which he has NEVER done.
Ok. So what's. The point???? He took a lesser role. Because James couldn't. Pippen wws forced to play in a set offense because Jackson felt Jordan was a ballhog.


You still haven't answered my question, BTW.
What question is that?


Also, in '94, Pippen scored 22/8/5 on 40%. Dude was terrible. He had 2 players averaging 17 PPG on near 62% TS and he still managed to lose.
See. This is just idiotic and why you shouldn't base something solely on stats. Pippen had to be the Bulls best defender, scorer, playmaker, help defender and run the offense. And be their second best rebounder. I bet he wished he had the Luxery if having a washed up Shaq to take pressure off of him. And the refs sending him to the line an xtra 8-10 times like Wade. And by you saying the Bulls should've won then you must feel they didn't need Jordan. How much sense does this make?????


19 PPG on 41% the very next year. This is not a washed up Pippen I'm talking about either. 16 PPG on 34% in the '96 Finals. When has Wade EVER won a series shooting 34%? ANY series. Not just the Finals.

Wade has had some stinkers bro. Come on what about 2011vs Chicago???? 2012 vs Boston? It haopens. And funny how you like to excuse Wades failures to injuries but refuse to do the same for Pippen


Wade is a tier above Pippen as a player. It's not even close. Heck Wade's series against the Pistons in '06 >>>>> Any series Pippen EVER had.
Lol one series???? And even then I disagree. If I remember correct Pippen avg. 20/9/8 vs the Sun in the 93 Finals. And 22/9/6/3/1 and was the playoffs best defender (led the playoffs in defensive rating) in 91.

[catch24]

You gonna tell me BJ Armstrong l/Horace Grant were better than Orlando Woolridge/Charles Oakley??? The difference was Jordan had Pippen.

Grant? During the first threepeat he was better than Oakley EVER was. Rookie Pippen alone was better than any of Jordan's teammates pre 1988.

Nobody disputes this, so why are you asking something fairly obvious?


Neither is better. Their impact is the same. They just went dominated in different ways.

No version of Pippen is better than any version of Bulls Jordan. The mid 90s Pippen was great and close to second threepeat. But he was never better or equal.

If you honestly believe that, you might need to rethink how you gauge and interpret the game of basketball.

From 2005-2011, Dwyane Wade was the better 2 way player, and its not remotely close. Advanced metrics which take into account impact (defensively too) will tell you the same thing...

Wade's 2009 regular season was arguably the greatest of any perimeter player since peak MJ. Pippen can't begin to the fvck with that.

Speaking of MJ... Why are you still arguing what he did pre Pippen? Scottie doesn't have the same impact Jordan did, and since its a team game, as suggested, what are you gaining by bringing that up?


Now my question to you....
Do you think the 94 Bulls win the championship if they had Latrell Spreewell? Or a Mitch Richmond

Adding Kukoc, Kerr, Longley and another all-star 2 guard? I would hope they'd win it all. That would be a stacked team, which they were in 1996.

The only thing holding them back would be a sabotage attempt from Pippen, trying to throw away a playoff series. :oldlol:

[97 bulls]

a few things I noticed....

we forget how good Prime Pippen was.....his defense was top shelf...and his offense was no joke....95' he was putting up great numbers and at times was dominating offensively.

For all the credit Wade get for 09 Pippens 95 was just as impressive. Leading a team in all five major categories? Thats only been done three other times in history. Wade avg.30 and 7 has been I believe 8 times.

And Pippen often took assignments out if position he shut down Charles Barkley and scored 35 pts vs the Suns during that season. One night hed be guarding Chris Webber, the next Penny Hardaway.

And he wws the best defender in the league in 2005. If Wade deserved the MVP for what he did in 2009 then Pippen deserved the MVP and DPOY awards in 95.

[Wade's Rings]

For all the credit Wade get for 09 Pippens 95 was just as impressive. Leading a team in all five major categories? Thats only been done three other times in history. Wade avg.30 and 7 has been I believe 8 times.

And Pippen often took assignments out if position he shut down Charles Barkley and scored 35 pts vs the Suns during that season. One night hed be guarding Chris Webber, the next Penny Hardaway.

And he wws the best defender in the league in 2005. If Wade deserved the MVP for what he did in 2009 then Pippen deserved the MVP and DPOY awards in 95.

Pippen? :biggums:

[97 bulls]

Grant? During the first threepeat he was better than Oakley EVER was. Rookie Pippen alone was better than any of Jordan's teammates pre 1988.
Oakley avg 13/13 in 87. And for all intents they (Grant and Oakley) were the same player. Come on.

Orlando Woolridge was an excellent scorer and better than Rookie Pippen. Even if you feel the Armstrong/Grant combo waw better? It's not as vast as you make it.


Nobody disputes this, so why are you asking something fairly obvious?
I agree. Im just reasonable. Im the first to acknowledge that Jordan didnt have a championship caliber team early in his career. But they weren't bad.




From 2005-2011, Dwyane Wade was the better 2 way player, and its not remotely close. Advanced metrics which take into account impact (defensively too) will tell you the same thing...
Wade was the better scorer, Pippen the better defender. Plain and simple. When they had comparable teams (95 for Pippen 09 for Wade) their teams faired the same. Your just being difficult.


Wade's 2009 regular season was arguably the greatest of any perimeter player since peak MJ. Pippen can't begin to the fvck with that.
1995 bro.


Speaking of MJ... Why are you still arguing what he did pre Pippen? Scottie doesn't have the same impact Jordan did, and since its a team game, as suggested, what are you gaining by bringing that up?
Because for some reason Pippen is expected to do something player that are generally considered greater than him couldn't do. I just point it out. It's not a bias or an agenda. I told you I believe Jordan was better than Pippen. You obviously agree. So why such lofty expectations for Pippen and not for Jordan or whoever else lost to a better team?




Adding Kukoc, Kerr, Longley and another all-star 2 guard? I would hope they'd win it all. That would be a stacked team, which they were in 1996.

Do you even remember the 94 Bulls???? Kerr and Longley weren't added, they replaced players. Longley replaced Stacy King, Kerr replaced John Paxon who playee sparingly. I hate when people say this. The only real addition was Kukoc and he was a rookie. And had his own trouble adjust to American style basketball.

[97 bulls]

Pippen? :biggums:
1995. My mistake.

[Papaya Petee]

This is an objective opinion????? Unbelievable.
Answer the question. Give me 1 season Pippen had including both regular season and playoffs thats as good as a 2nd year Wade.

And don't use Wade was just a scorer bullshit. You don't average 7 assists (elite for shooting guards) 5 rebounds (good for shooting guards) 2 steals (great for shooting guards and 1 block a game (elite for shooting guards) while shooting 49.5% FG (elite for shooting guards)

Oh, and he increased his scoring from 24.1 PPG to 27.4 PPG in the playoffs (something Pippen can't even dream of, because he was an average scorer) but keep acting like scoring isnt the most important asset in basketball. And rebounding from 4.7 to 5.7 in the playoffs while maintaining the rest of the stats.

And that's Wades 4th/5th best season (would be 6th if he didn't get injured in 07)

I could give 2 shits about accolades and all that other shit. Pure basketball ability Wade has 4-6 seasons better than Pippens best. His basketball ability is superior. If anyone thinks otherwises they're braindead simple as that.

[97 bulls]

Answer the question. Give me 1 season Pippen had including both regular season and playoffs thats as good as a 2nd year Wade.

And don't use Wade was just a scorer bullshit. You don't average 7 assists (elite for shooting guards) 5 rebounds (good for shooting guards) 2 steals (great for shooting guards and 1 block a game (elite for shooting guards) while shooting 49.5% FG (elite for shooting guards)

Oh, and he increased his scoring from 24.1 PPG to 27.4 PPG in the playoffs (something Pippen can't even dream of, because he was an average scorer) but keep acting like scoring isnt the most important asset in basketball. And rebounding from 4.7 to 5.7 in the playoffs while maintaining the rest of the stats.

And that's Wades 4th/5th best season (would be 6th if he didn't get injured in 07)

I could give 2 shits about accolades and all that other shit. Pure basketball ability Wade has 4-6 seasons better than Pippens best. His basketball ability is superior. If anyone thinks otherwises they're braindead simple as that.
1991. Unlike you I consider both sides of the ball, as well as the fact that Pippen played an integral role in winning the championship while beating two Dynasties in the.process. Im sure Wade would trade his 2005 season for Pippens 91 season as well.

[GimmeThat]

Bosh's assist went down since joining the Heat just the same as his rebounding number hasn't gone up since Lebron's departure as they hadn't acquire a 3 point specialist at the SF/Wing position.

ask Jordan to be the decoy and the assist man against Ewing/Oakley/any player ranging from Drexler to Worthy. or Rodman/Worthy/Starks all while expecting someone like Cartwright to give you around 1 assist below his average.


had Phil Jackson not gone from the assisting coach position to the head coaching position of the Bulls, I doubt they would have won a championship their "first season" together anyways.

[aj1987]

Wade was trying to be Jordan. James statistically was Pippen. What you refuse to acknowledge is the defensive side if the ball. Thats where Pippen flat out dominated. Dont be so emotional. Stats arent everything.
Not enough to cover the gap on the offensive end.


Lol. The Heat had a lot if talent. Bosh, Deng, a young stud in Whiteside, Haslem, Chalmers, Dragic. Are you insane???? 37 wins???? In the Eastern Conference?????? Is the talent the Heat had last year that far off from the 00 Portland Trailblazer team that Pippen led to the WCF vs the 67 win Shaq/Kobe Lakers????? At the least the Heat should've been .500. The 34 year old Pippen led that team to 59 wins. In the Western conference.
:biggums: :biggums: :biggums:

Please stop posting. You don't know SHIT about basketball. Really. That's just beyond retarded.


Refer to the 00 Blazer.
Ok...? What does that team have to do with the '15 Heat?


Pippen player hurt in 96 (a season you hold against him) 97, and 98. He had surgery in I believe 90, 92, and 98.
:applause:

MJ carried a Bulls team with his #2 constantly injured. Good on him.


I know. But you're using it as an excuse. My point is you shouldn't. Because Wade and teams hes been on have also benefited from playing injured teams. By injured, I mean key players not playing. You cant see that because you're too biased.
When was that? Please don't bring up Rose 'cause Miami WRECKED the Bulls WITH MVP Rose.


Ok. So what's. The point???? He took a lesser role. Because James couldn't. Pippen wws forced to play in a set offense because Jackson felt Jordan was a ballhog.
:roll:


See. This is just idiotic and why you shouldn't base something solely on stats. Pippen had to be the Bulls best defender, scorer, playmaker, help defender and run the offense. And be their second best rebounder. I bet he wished he had the Luxery if having a washed up Shaq to take pressure off of him. And the refs sending him to the line an xtra 8-10 times like Wade. And by you saying the Bulls should've won then you must feel they didn't need Jordan. How much sense does this make?????
tl;dr, when Migraine Man loses, I can use a million excuses. When Wade loses, no excuses.


Wade has had some stinkers bro. Come on what about 2011vs Chicago???? 2012 vs Boston? It haopens. And funny how you like to excuse Wades failures to injuries but refuse to do the same for Pippen
Watch the series. Wade was clutch AF vs the Bulls. 21/6/5/1/2 on 44% vs the Celtics on a bum knee. Those numbers are close to Pippen's BEST series and you're calling that a "stinker" for Wade.



Lol one series???? And even then I disagree. If I remember correct Pippen avg. 20/9/8 vs the Sun in the 93 Finals. And 22/9/6/3/1 and was the playoffs best defender (led the playoffs in defensive rating) in 91.
That wasn't even his best series THAT year. Wade has like 10 series better than Pippen's BEST.

Those stat lines you're posting, Wade was putting them up on bum knees in '12 and '13.

[97 bulls]

Not enough to cover the gap on the offensive end.


:biggums: :biggums: :biggums:

Please stop posting. You don't know SHIT about basketball. Really. That's just beyond retarded.


Ok...? What does that team have to do with the '15 Heat?


:applause:

MJ carried a Bulls team with his #2 constantly injured. Good on him.


When was that? Please don't bring up Rose 'cause Miami WRECKED the Bulls WITH MVP Rose.


:roll:


tl;dr, when Migraine Man loses, I can use a million excuses. When Wade loses, no excuses.


Watch the series. Wade was clutch AF vs the Bulls. 21/6/5/1/2 on 44% vs the Celtics on a bum knee. Those numbers are close to Pippen's BEST series and you're calling that a "stinker" for Wade.



That wasn't even his best series THAT year. Wade has like 10 series better than Pippen's BEST.

Those stat lines you're posting, Wade was putting them up on bum knees in '12 and '13.
Let me summarize this for you. In your opinion, Wade is better cuz hes a better scorer. Pippen is more accomplished. Better rebounder, defender, and equal passer. Its hard to have a discussion with a person who wants to revise history.

[HiphopRelated]

Let me summarize this for you. In your opinion, Wade is better cuz hes a better scorer. Pippen is more accomplished. Better rebounder, defender, and equal passer. Its hard to have a discussion with a person who wants to revise history.
more accomplished? at what?

[Dresta]

Wade was trying to be Jordan. James statistically was Pippen. What you refuse to acknowledge is the defensive side if the ball. Thats where Pippen flat out dominated. Dont be so emotional. Stats arent everything.


Lol. The Heat had a lot if talent. Bosh, Deng, a young stud in Whiteside, Haslem, Chalmers, Dragic. Are you insane???? 37 wins???? In the Eastern Conference?????? Is the talent the Heat had last year that far off from the 00 Portland Trailblazer team that Pippen led to the WCF vs the 67 win Shaq/Kobe Lakers????? At the least the Heat should've been .500. The 34 year old Pippen led that team to 59 wins. In the Western conference.

.Those guys played half a season or less each - as for Chalmers and Haslem: :oldlol:.

The rest of the paragraph shows you to be truly delusional.

[97 bulls]

Those guys played half a season or less each - as for Chalmers and Haslem: :oldlol:.

The rest of the paragraph shows you to be truly delusional.
37 wins in the Eastern Conference.

[aj1987]

Let me summarize this for you. In your opinion, Wade is better cuz hes a better scorer. Pippen is more accomplished. Better rebounder, defender, and equal passer. Its hard to have a discussion with a person who wants to revise history.
Wade >>>>>> Pippen (scoring)
Wade > Pippen (playmaking)
Wade < Pippen (rebounding)
Wade <<< Pippen (defense)
Wade >> Pippen (longevity)

I'm not revising shit, kid. You might want to make Mr. Migraine to be a legendary player, but he's not. He has been and will always be recognized as the the beta/sidekick/etc..


37 wins in the Eastern Conference.
As I said, Mr. Migraine would win 25 games with the same team (at beast and during his PEAK).

[Wade's Rings]

Lol. The Heat had a lot if talent. Bosh, Deng, a young stud in Whiteside, Haslem, Chalmers, Dragic. Are you insane???? 37 wins???? In the Eastern Conference?????? Is the talent the Heat had last year that far off from the 00 Portland Trailblazer team that Pippen led to the WCF vs the 67 win Shaq/Kobe Lakers????? At the least the Heat should've been .500. The 34 year old Pippen led that team to 59 wins. In the Western conference.

Deng didn't play like an All-Star at all this year. We got Dragic in the 2nd half of the season. Whiteside didn't play starters minutes until the 2nd half of the Season and even then he missed plenty of games due to suspension and injury. Bosh didn't play past the All-Star break. That team was nowhere near the 2000 Blazers in terms of talent. You're a dumbass :facepalm


1991. Unlike you I consider both sides of the ball, as well as the fact that Pippen played an integral role in winning the championship while beating two Dynasties in the.process. Im sure Wade would trade his 2005 season for Pippens 91 season as well.

So Wade wasn't an Elite Defender now? :oldlol:


Let me summarize this for you. In your opinion, Wade is better cuz hes a better scorer. Pippen is more accomplished. Better rebounder, defender, and equal passer. Its hard to have a discussion with a person who wants to revise history.

What is Pippen more accomplished at? You said earlier in this thread that Lebron had a good performance in the 2011 Finals but we're trying to revise history.

[Blue&Orange]

Well we all know Lebron is an incredible bad batman, that year he was also an atrocious Robin. No star could have survived such mediocrity from a sidekick.


Congratulations to ish, for making such a retard thread go to 20 pages, equaling the collective IQ of this board.

[97 bulls]

Deng didn't play like an All-Star at all this year. We got Dragic in the 2nd half of the season. Whiteside didn't play starters minutes until the 2nd half of the Season and even then he missed plenty of games due to suspension and injury. Bosh didn't play past the All-Star break. That team was nowhere near the 2000 Blazers in terms of talent. You're a dumbass :facepalm
Dude. It didn't matter. The Heat were bad. Last year. Ive never seen people readily make so many excuses for one side of an.argument and not concede the same for the opposition.



So Wade wasn't an Elite Defender now? :oldlol:
I think his defense is overrated. Who has he locked down? And mind you not a play. But from the start of a game to the end.



What is Pippen more accomplished at? You said earlier in this thread that Lebron had a good performance in the 2011 Finals but we're trying to revise history.
How can you say hes not? Because of All-star games? A controversial finals MVP?

Pippen blows the doors off him in all defense teams, top five finishes for DPOY voting, and Championships. Wade has one scoring title. In a league that changed the rules to make it easier for perimeter players to score.

Wade is a better scorer than Pip thats it.

[aj1987]

a few things I noticed....

we forget how good Prime Pippen was.....his defense was top shelf...and his offense was no joke....95' he was putting up great numbers and at times was dominating offensively.

2005 Shaq worked out all summer with a Navy Seal and dropped over 30lbs...

Shaq arriving in Miami 2005..

http://i.cdn.turner.com/drp/nba/heat/sites/default/files/styles/main_gallery_photo__480_tall/public/legacy/photos/hpg0405_vma_oneal3_0.jpg

compared to ..

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/98/ca/74/98ca7464b573bfd44898b5cae41a7f26.jpg

Shaq was in much better basketball shape during his time in Miami then he was since 00' in LA.....still near his prime....and a better player then 02' - 04' Shaq


Ok... Weight loss = Superior play?

Wade lost like 20lbs before the '14 season. LeBron lost like 25 lbs before the '15 season.

Shaq was playing at a top 2 GOAT level during the 3peat. He wasn't wasn't even close to being that good in '05 or '06.

[SouBeachTalents]

Well we all know Lebron is an incredible bad batman, that year he was also an atrocious Robin. No star could have survived such mediocrity from a sidekick.


Congratulations to ish, for making such a retard thread go to 20 pages, equaling the collective IQ of this board.

Both still higher than the Knicks win total from last year

[Wade's Rings]

Dude. It didn't matter. The Heat were bad. Last year. Ive never seen people readily make so many excuses for one side of an.argument and not concede the same for the opposition.

You keep bringing up the 2000 Blazers and comparing them to last years Heat. It's not excuses it's the truth they were injured and you brought up a bunch of names without any context.



I think his defense is overrated. Who has he locked down? And mind you not a play. But from the start of a game to the end.

He's had Games where he's shut down Kobe, D-Will a while back, and other series/games where he's played good defense but sometimes the other player just scores. I remember a Game back in 2010 he had stretches where he was guarding Kobe and he was playing good defense and giving great contests on every shot but Kobe was still put 3-4 shots in. That doesn't mean his Defense was awful. Wade's Man Defense may not be better than Pippen's but Wade has Great Impact Defensively with his Help Defense. Wade was used to patrol the paint (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rX7xdo_NzKw) and he alters shots, forces strips, etc.




How can you say hes not? Because of All-star games? A controversial finals MVP?

Pippen blows the doors off him in all defense teams, top five finishes for DPOY voting, and Championships. Wade has one scoring title. In a league that changed the rules to make it easier for perimeter players to score.

Wade is a better scorer than Pip thats it.

You bring up Championships but Pippen was winning Titles putting up 16 pts shooting 34% :oldlol: How many series has Wade won shooting that poor?

Wade is the better Playoff and Finals Performer. Wade was a Franchise Player.

[AlphaWolf24]

Ok... Weight loss = Superior play?

Wade lost like 20lbs before the '14 season. LeBron lost like 25 lbs before the '15 season.

Shaq was playing at a top 2 GOAT level during the 3peat. He wasn't wasn't even close to being that good in '05 or '06.

umm...not really....his decline started to really show in 03'....

- no great athlete drops off a cliff in the span of 1 - 2 years ( without injury)
- Shaq was in much better shape in Miami then he was his last few years in LA

on top of of being much more motivated also....he didn't go from " Top 2 GOAT" to "outta his prime" in 1 year.


- being in great shape + Motivated is much better then being overweight and unmotivated ....especially within the span of a few years.....

[aj1987]

Let me summarize this for you. In your opinion, Wade is better cuz hes a better scorer. Pippen is more accomplished. Better rebounder, defender, and equal passer. Its hard to have a discussion with a person who wants to revise history.
Wade is going to surpass Pip's total points after like 5 games next season, while playing ~400 fewer games than him. Wade averages 7 PPG more than Pippen. He's also a significantly better playmaker than Pippen and also a better leader. The only thing Pippen has over Wade is defense and like a rebound more per game.


umm...not really....his decline started to really show in 03'....

- no great athlete drops off a cliff in the span of 1 - 2 years ( without injury)
- Shaq was in much better shape in Miami then he was his last few years in LA

on top of of being much more motivated also....he didn't go from " Top 2 GOAT" to "outta his prime" in 1 year.


- being in great shape + Motivated is much better then being overweight and unmotivated ....especially within the span of a few years.....
:biggums:

Shaq averaged 14/10 in the '06 Finals. He was still great in '05, but he dropped off in '06.

Shaq averaged 23/14/3/3 in '03-'04 and 19/9/2/2 in '05-'06.