Floor general point guards

[90sgoat]

It seems this term 'floor general' means different things to different people.

To me it is personified by Jason Kidd and Magic Johnson.

It is not enough to be a good passer or dribbler, it's about really knowing your guys and your team and understanding how to put them in positions where they get the best opportunity to score. Sometimes this means making a very simple entry pass to James Worthy in the post (see Lakers vs Bulls Game 1 1991). Other times it means pushing the ball on every rebound to get the ball to your athletic wing players (see Jason Kidd on Nets). Other times it means keeping the ball moving on, passing, getting in position to get it back (Jason Kidd on Knicks a few years back).

Then you have the ball dominant point guards, which is very popular now, the type characterised by Steve Nash, Tim Hardaway, KJ, Chris Paul. These are guys who can really beat their guy on the dribble and pick and roll and they can shoot or attack the basket, but they're not great thinkers and they are limited in that everything has to start and end with them.

Last we have the combo-guards. These are small shoot first point guards who are quick and like to shoot. These are the Westbrooks, the AIs and so on.

For the first kind of floor general we can also include guys like Mark Jacson, Mugsy Bogues, Mike Conley (a bit) and so on.

[AnaheimLakers24]

Jason kidd

[bizil]

It seems this term 'floor general' means different things to different people.

To me it is personified by Jason Kidd and Magic Johnson.

It is not enough to be a good passer or dribbler, it's about really knowing your guys and your team and understanding how to put them in positions where they get the best opportunity to score. Sometimes this means making a very simple entry pass to James Worthy in the post (see Lakers vs Bulls Game 1 1991). Other times it means pushing the ball on every rebound to get the ball to your athletic wing players (see Jason Kidd on Nets). Other times it means keeping the ball moving on, passing, getting in position to get it back (Jason Kidd on Knicks a few years back).

Then you have the ball dominant point guards, which is very popular now, the type characterised by Steve Nash, Tim Hardaway, KJ, Chris Paul. These are guys who can really beat their guy on the dribble and pick and roll and they can shoot or attack the basket, but they're not great thinkers and they are limited in that everything has to start and end with them.

Last we have the combo-guards. These are small shoot first point guards who are quick and like to shoot. These are the Westbrooks, the AIs and so on.

For the first kind of floor general we can also include guys like Mark Jacson, Mugsy Bogues, Mike Conley (a bit) and so on.


U made some good points. BUT U ALSO made some bad points too! The guys like Nash, KJ, CP3, and Hardaway are also GREAT FLOOR GENERALS! Nash and CP3 are on the level of guys like Magic, Stockton, and Kidd in terms of being a floor general. U could make a GREAT CASE that those are the top five floor generals of all time. Magic DIDN'T have to be as ball dominant because he had guys like Kareem, Worthy, Nixon, McAdoo, B Scott, and Silk Wilkes to pass to. And OFTEN TIMES, its the coaches who dictate how the PG spreads the wealth.

Nash in Dallas wasn't NEARLY as ball dominant as he was in PHX. Nash was still an All Star PG in Dallas. In PHX, he became an MVP. WHY? Because the ball was in his hands more. AND he was so skilled and smart that it took his game and the Suns to another level. If anything, Nash showed he could thrive in different environments. Which is a great indicator of a great player! When Rondo COULDN'T dominate the ball in Dallas like he did in Boston, u see what the results were.

[BuffaloBill]

If you think Chris Paul and Steve Nash aren't floor generals then I'm not sure you've ever watched Chris Paul and Steve Nash play

[90sgoat]

If you think Chris Paul and Steve Nash aren't floor generals then I'm not sure you've ever watched Chris Paul and Steve Nash play

Perhaps, maybe I am looking for a different word. I agree both those guys are leaders, I just don't think Nash in particular is a proper strategist, neither is Paul. They rely so much on their pick and roll game and their shot threat. You take away their pick and pop and they look lost!

Kidd and Magic didn't need that. They were more unpredictable. I was watching old Magic games and a lot of the times the man looks dull, making simple entry passes or quickly getting rid of the ball. The same with Kidd. But then you see that Worthy makes 3 in a row from that baseline post position and things begin to make sense. Magic simply understand where the ball needs to go and he doesn't need to look fancy doing it. That's the same with Kidd, getting everyone involved.

To me, that is a true pass first point guard. Paul and Nash are not 'pass first' point guards even with a lot of assists. They get a lot of their assists by their threat to shoot or drive.

I would have loved to see Kidd have the same team Paul did. It is literally better at every position than the Nets teams that made it to the finals. And magnitudes better at every position.

[90sgoat]

U made some good points. BUT U ALSO made some bad points too! The guys like Nash, KJ, CP3, and Hardaway are also GREAT FLOOR GENERALS! Nash and CP3 are on the level of guys like Magic, Stockton, and Kidd in terms of being a floor general. U could make a GREAT CASE that those are the top five floor generals of all time. Magic DIDN'T have to be as ball dominant because he had guys like Kareem, Worthy, Nixon, McAdoo, B Scott, and Silk Wilkes to pass to. And OFTEN TIMES, its the coaches who dictate how the PG spreads the wealth.

Nash in Dallas wasn't NEARLY as ball dominant as he was in PHX. Nash was still an All Star PG in Dallas. In PHX, he became an MVP. WHY? Because the ball was in his hands more. AND he was so skilled and smart that it took his game and the Suns to another level. If anything, Nash showed he could thrive in different environments. Which is a great indicator of a great player! When Rondo COULDN'T dominate the ball in Dallas like he did in Boston, u see what the results were.

I actually think Rondo is the guy who is closest to Kidd and Magic in playing style, but he does over do it.

[ZMonkey11]

Then we have guys like Isiah Thomas.

Knew his players to the T and got every last ounce of talent out of them.

If needed, dominated the game with bucket after bucket after bucket.

One of the deadliest assassins the NBA has ever known.

The true floor general.

[90sgoat]

Then we have guys like Isiah Thomas.

Knew his players to the T and got every last ounce of talent out of them.

If needed, dominated the game with bucket after bucket after bucket.

One of the deadliest assassins the NBA has ever known.

The true floor general.

Yes, haven't really watched him play much.

Who else would you compare him to?

[chips93]

Perhaps, maybe I am looking for a different word. I agree both those guys are leaders, I just don't think Nash in particular is a proper strategist, neither is Paul. They rely so much on their pick and roll game and their shot threat. You take away their pick and pop and they look lost!

Kidd and Magic didn't need that. They were more unpredictable. I was watching old Magic games and a lot of the times the man looks dull, making simple entry passes or quickly getting rid of the ball. The same with Kidd. But then you see that Worthy makes 3 in a row from that baseline post position and things begin to make sense. Magic simply understand where the ball needs to go and he doesn't need to look fancy doing it. That's the same with Kidd, getting everyone involved.

To me, that is a true pass first point guard. Paul and Nash are not 'pass first' point guards even with a lot of assists. They get a lot of their assists by their threat to shoot or drive.

I would have loved to see Kidd have the same team Paul did. It is literally better at every position than the Nets teams that made it to the finals. And magnitudes better at every position.

i think this has more to do with the eras that the pgs played in than any deficiencies any of them had.

all four that you mentioned have incredible basketball iq. but the style of play, and the smartest way to win has changed, due to rule changes and differing skill sets.

because of hand checking, zone defense, and better 3pt shooting, in this era the pick and roll is the best option for almost ever offense in the league, thats why nash and cp3 dominate the ball so much, because its their team's best option.

im sure if they played in the 80s they would adapt their games, and they would look a bit more like magic in terms of playing style.

likewise if magic played today, with the zone defense rules going into worthy in the post, or posting up himself would be such an attractive option, and we'd see him run a a ton more pick and rolls, dumping passes off to his rolling big man, or whipping the ball out to shooters spotting up around the 3pt line.

[chips93]

Yes, haven't really watched him play much.

Who else would you compare him to?

i didnt watch him live, but ive seen lots of his old games.

he played a bit like kyrie, but with less range and much much better passing.

both had/have ridiculous handles, good touch finishing around the rim despite being small and not great leapers, and really good at shooting pull up jumpers.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Stockton, Magic, Kidd, Frazier, Nash, CP3, old DJ, Cousy, Price, so on... All floor-general PG's, in my book.

[sammichoffate]

Chauncey Billups is an under the radar floor general, although some people say he's overrated(lol). Sam Cassell was also a beast when he was with Minnesota and the Clippers.

[G-train]

Floor General status is purely based off high level on court instruction and leadership.
Magic was a General, so was Avery Johnson, so was Kidd.
Not really dependent on the traditional star skills.

[G-train]

i didnt watch him live, but ive seen lots of his old games.

he played a bit like kyrie, but with less range and much much better passing.

both had/have ridiculous handles, good touch finishing around the rim despite being small and not great leapers, and really good at shooting pull up jumpers.

Thomas wasn't allowed to carry at an insane level, his legal handles were better IMO.

[swagga]

It seems this term 'floor general' means different things to different people.

To me it is personified by Jason Kidd and Magic Johnson.

It is not enough to be a good passer or dribbler, it's about really knowing your guys and your team and understanding how to put them in positions where they get the best opportunity to score. Sometimes this means making a very simple entry pass to James Worthy in the post (see Lakers vs Bulls Game 1 1991). Other times it means pushing the ball on every rebound to get the ball to your athletic wing players (see Jason Kidd on Nets). Other times it means keeping the ball moving on, passing, getting in position to get it back (Jason Kidd on Knicks a few years back).

Then you have the ball dominant point guards, which is very popular now, the type characterised by Steve Nash, Tim Hardaway, KJ, Chris Paul. These are guys who can really beat their guy on the dribble and pick and roll and they can shoot or attack the basket, but they're not great thinkers and they are limited in that everything has to start and end with them.

Last we have the combo-guards. These are small shoot first point guards who are quick and like to shoot. These are the Westbrooks, the AIs and so on.

For the first kind of floor general we can also include guys like Mark Jacson, Mugsy Bogues, Mike Conley (a bit) and so on.

let's cut to the chase doe, is michael jordan the GOAT floor general ?

[G-train]

let's cut to the chase doe, is michael jordan the GOAT floor general ?

Not even in the discussion.
He was a scorer first and foremost.
They played a fast pace style that settled into the triangle.
Pippen was more of a General.

[90sgoat]

let's cut to the chase doe, is michael jordan the GOAT floor general ?

No Magic and then Kidd then Stockton.

[JimmyMcAdocious]

CP3 is much closer to Zeke than Kyrie.

[ZMonkey11]

Yes, haven't really watched him play much.

Who else would you compare him to?

I think the Kyrie comparison is alright. I think that Kyrie has better showie skills than Isiah, but Isiah just beat you off the dribble due to his quickness. Both attack the basket and are really creative with finishing.

But to be honest, there is no player in the league right now that I'd say has a similar playing style to Isiah.

Chris Paul probably comes closest with demeanor, skills, leadership ability, and ability to take over a game. A pass first guard that can score like a number one option if he is pushed into it, or hell if he feels like it.

Isiah had A.I. talent in scoring midrange and getting the shot he wanted with elite court vision. He knew the simple play, he knew the complex play, he knew the trick plays. All of this with a MJ killer instinct mentality.

[DoctorP]

Gary Payton could do the floor general thing.

[KNOW1EDGE]

Surprised no one has mentioned the Little General himself, Avery Johnson.

I think he personifies and set the standard for floor generals

[Duffy Pratt]

Good examples are Maurice Cheeks and Dennis Johnson.

[bizil]

When looking at PG's, u have three different kind of PG's who can be great players:

Pass first floor general AND can be a great scorer: Magic, Big O, Isiah, Frazier, Payton, Tiny, CP3, Nash

Pass first floor general but NOT really an alpha dog or great scorer: Stockton, Kidd, Cousy, Wall (could develop into a great scorer),Mark Jackson, Mo Cheeks, Rondo

Score first PG's: Curry (in my book, the best floor general of this group) Westbrook, Rose, Arenas, Irving, Lillard

Score first PG's or combo guards who eventually moved to SG more exclusively: The Pearl, AI, World B Free, Monta Ellis

[SHAQisGOAT]

Good examples are Maurice Cheeks and Dennis Johnson.

Forgot about Mo Cheeks, definitely can be named. DJ post-84 is a good example, like I've said.

Payton and Zeke can also be mentioned.

[G-train]

Surprised no one has mentioned the Little General himself, Avery Johnson.

I think he personifies and set the standard for floor generals

Someone did :lol