Untapped potential/talent

[SHAQisGOAT]

Which players "wasted" their talent/skill the most, in your opinion? Considering everything you can think of, only excluding injury situations.

Off the top, I first think of...

Darryl Dawkins - 6'11, 250 lbs, built like a tank, beast of an athlete, nice soft-touch, had some skill... Yet, he was like a big kid, joking more often than not (breaking rims for the fans' enjoyment), didn't have the proper work ethic, didn't give it close to his all most of the time...

Marvin Barnes - Showed he had lots of talent in college and in the ABA, just a great baller... But it all fell apart quickly due many off-court "problems" that I can't even begin to list, let's just say the dude had the nickname 'Bad News' for a reason.

Pete Maravich - 6'5 barefeet, 197+ lbs, good overall athlete and probably one of the 5 most skilled players in basketball history... But his intangibles were on the other side of the spectrum; could never find the right balance between scoring and passing, played mostly for the show/fans, overdid it like a mf'er, for most of his career he didn't play "winning basketball"...

Derrick Coleman - 6'10, 230+ lbs, very strong, pretty good athlete, coud do most things on the basketball court on good level; could score and even shoot, could post-up, great rebounder, could pass the rock, played D... But was lazy af and just a terrible team player...

David Thompson - Sick athlete, a great finisher, had a good, quick jumper, a killer 1st step, displayed great scoring capabilities in his best years... But had major drug issues - just to sum it up - that screwed his best level and longevity.

Shawn Kemp - Still showed the world just how good he was, had various very good NBA seasons on winning squads... But had weight and drug problems that took a major toll on his career, while still young.

Antoine Walker - Good all-around player/talen in his best days... But didn't keep his shape well and had one of the worst shot selections ever.

Len Bias - Showed terrific potential in college; tall, long, very athletic, NBA-ready body, smart, had a nice jumper that couldn't be blocked because he jumped out of the gym and released it at the apex, rebounded, played defense, already displayed some post-game and footwork... But then died, due to overdose, just before he got to play in the league.

...

Name some more... Who were the worst cases?

[DoctorP]

Kemp and Walker were tapped out. They reached their potential. Coleman was not that great.

[Naero]

I'd have to throw Andrew Bynum in the mix.

Everyone knows his injury and attitudinal problems that stymied his full potential, but not everyone remembers as strikingly what the ceiling for that potential was.

For the 16 games preceding his first major injury in 2007-08, which onset his chronic knee ailments, he was averaging 16.4 PPG on 67.7% field-goal percentage, 10.9 RPG, and 2.4 BPG. Talk about wasted potential; he was on his way to a Hall of Fame career if it was not for those derailments, if I was a betting man.

It's also why I'm surprised that no one is trying to take chances with the now-27-year-old. The door has likely closed for HoF-hood for him, but with the right culture and mentorship, he still is a better commodity at the center position than many second-string centers that still exist and likely would not demand too much money to play.

[JimmyMcAdocious]

LO. I still think Mayo could have been much better than what his peak was and what he has eventually become.

[Meticode]

JaVale McGee

[Sportal]

Beasley?

[Micku]

I'd have to throw Andrew Bynum in the mix.

Everyone knows his injury and attitudinal problems that stymied his full potential, but not everyone remembers as strikingly what the ceiling for that potential was.

For the 16 games preceding his first major injury in 2007-08, which onset his chronic knee ailments, he was averaging 16.4 PPG on 67.7% field-goal percentage, 10.9 RPG, and 2.4 BPG. Talk about wasted potential; he was on his way to a Hall of Fame career if it was not for those derailments, if I was a betting man.

It's also why I'm surprised that no one is trying to take chances with the now-27-year-old. The door has likely closed for HoF-hood for him, but with the right culture and mentorship, he still is a better commodity at the center position than many second-string centers that still exist and likely would not demand too much money to play.


I think it's because they don't want to deal with his immaturity attitude and he is injury prone.

Lamar Odom. Dude seemed like he was versatile as LBJ. He could do it all. But he was inconsistent, personal problems, and he checked out after he was traded from the Lakers.

[Marchesk]

Michael "Sugar Ray" Richardson

[HighFlyer23]

Vincent Lamar Carter.

Had everythin (athleticism, talent, natural ability, skill, size), except he didn't want to be the best and was content with just being good.

[Muskarat]

Off the top of my head:

Ty Lawson soon if he doesn't get his drinking problem handled
Royce White - mental health and attitude problems
Ramon Sessions mentally folded when he went to the Lakers. Not like we were expecting him to become Magic Johnson or anything but many expected he'd become a Jeff League level player in a new environment with expectations. Yeah, not quite.

edit: forgot about Carmelo

[mr4speed]

Which players "wasted" their talent/skill the most, in your opinion? Considering everything you can think of, only excluding injury situations.

Off the top, I first think of...

Darryl Dawkins - 6'11, 250 lbs, built like a tank, beast of an athlete, nice soft-touch, had some skill... Yet, he was like a big kid, joking more often than not (breaking rims for the fans' enjoyment), didn't have the proper work ethic, didn't give it close to his all most of the time...

Marvin Barnes - Showed he had lots of talent in college and in the ABA, just a great baller... But it all fell apart quickly due many off-court "problems" that I can't even begin to list, let's just say the dude had the nickname 'Bad News' for a reason.

Pete Maravich - 6'5 barefeet, 197+ lbs, good overall athlete and probably one of the 5 most skilled players in basketball history... But his intangibles were on the other side of the spectrum; could never find the right balance between scoring and passing, played mostly for the show/fans, overdid it like a mf'er, for most of his career he didn't play "winning basketball"...

Derrick Coleman - 6'10, 230+ lbs, very strong, pretty good athlete, coud do most things on the basketball court on good level; could score and even shoot, could post-up, great rebounder, could pass the rock, played D... But was lazy af and just a terrible team player...

David Thompson - Sick athlete, a great finisher, had a good, quick jumper, a killer 1st step, displayed great scoring capabilities in his best years... But had major drug issues - just to sum it up - that screwed his best level and longevity.

Shawn Kemp - Still showed the world just how good he was, had various very good NBA seasons on winning squads... But had weight and drug problems that took a major toll on his career, while still young.

Antoine Walker - Good all-around player/talen in his best days... But didn't keep his shape well and had one of the worst shot selections ever.

Len Bias - Showed terrific potential in college; tall, long, very athletic, NBA-ready body, smart, had a nice jumper that couldn't be blocked because he jumped out of the gym and released it at the apex, rebounded, played defense, already displayed some post-game and footwork... But then died, due to overdose, just before he got to play in the league.

...

Name some more... Who were the worst cases?



Nice list and of the 8 you listed I thought the guy with the best potential was David Thompson. The guy I first thought of was Ralph Sampson. He was 7 foot 4 inches and after seeing him play at Virginia, I thought this guy was going to be another Lew Alcindor- Kareem. I don't know if he just lacked the desire, but he never became the player I thought he would and he had the chance to play alongside Hakeem.

[inclinerator]

lebron james, working out for 15 minutes a day instead of a few hrs

[Marchesk]

Nice list and of the 8 you listed I thought the guy with the best potential was David Thompson. The guy I first thought of was Ralph Sampson. He was 7 foot 4 inches and after seeing him play at Virginia, I thought this guy was going to be another Lew Alcindor- Kareem. I don't know if he just lacked the desire, but he never became the player I thought he would and he had the chance to play alongside Hakeem.

Injuries hurt his career. First three seasons though, he was pretty good. Not Kareem good, but good enough that the Rockets weren't willing to trade him for some SG in Chicago.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Sheed, Odom, Lebron, Grandmama, Sampson, Manigault, TMac, John Lucas, Pee Wee Kirkland, Tarpley, Kenny Anderson, Michael Ray Richardson, Skywalker, Maravich, Marbury, Francis, JR Rider, Reggie Lewis

[SHAQisGOAT]

Odom is a great mention.

Royce White obviously has to be named.



I'd have to throw Andrew Bynum in the mix.

Everyone knows his injury and attitudinal problems that stymied his full potential, but not everyone remembers as strikingly what the ceiling for that potential was.

For the 16 games preceding his first major injury in 2007-08, which onset his chronic knee ailments, he was averaging 16.4 PPG on 67.7% field-goal percentage, 10.9 RPG, and 2.4 BPG. Talk about wasted potential; he was on his way to a Hall of Fame career if it was not for those derailments, if I was a betting man.

It's also why I'm surprised that no one is trying to take chances with the now-27-year-old. The door has likely closed for HoF-hood for him, but with the right culture and mentorship, he still is a better commodity at the center position than many second-string centers that still exist and likely would not demand too much money to play.

Yea, Bynum needs to be mentioned, and definitely not all due to injuries...



Vincent Lamar Carter.

Had everythin (athleticism, talent, natural ability, skill, size), except he didn't want to be the best and was content with just being good.

Can clearly be mentioned also.



Kemp and Walker were tapped out. They reached their potential. Coleman was not that great.

I think you can definitely argue for that but with a better mentality they could've had a better peak even if only slightly, imho, and they would've at least lasted longer, with more success.



Nice list and of the 8 you listed I thought the guy with the best potential was David Thompson.

I think Pistol Pete was... With, at least, good intangibles or the right guidance for it since early on, call it, dude could've been at least a top30 all-time player.

Auerbach once said that if he had drafted Maravich for the Celtics, Pete would've been named with the very best of all-time by the end of his career... I don't know about the VERY best but the talent was definitely there and he certainly would've had a "chance" to be much better... His playing ways were deeply rooted in him since before though (due to plenty of things), would've been tough to change them but the best chance would've been in Boston, yea.
Pete was drafted to a team that didn't really fit his style and his teammates were also jealous of him. Then at his best he was with a team built around him but with poor quality teammates, and just when the team was getting better and him changing his ways more, he got injured never being the same again.




Injuries hurt his career. First three seasons though, he was pretty good. Not Kareem good, but good enough that the Rockets weren't willing to trade him for some SG in Chicago.

Injuries definitely hurt his career but he also lacked the desire like mr4speed said, he was mentally weak many times and didn't have the best work ethic.



Michael "Sugar Ray" Richardson

Forgot about him, easily around the top on this "list".

Still had some seasons showing his great all-around play/talent.



Sheed, Odom, Lebron, Grandmama, Sampson, Manigault, TMac, John Lucas, Pee Wee Kirkland, Tarpley, Kenny Anderson, Michael Ray Richardson, Skywalker, Maravich, Marbury, Francis, JR Rider, Reggie Lewis

Great list... Many different types of "problems" holding them back too.

[Round Mound]

Great List. :applause:

[ClipperRevival]

Kemp got fat and lazy when he went to Cleveland at 28 but prior to that in Seattle, he gave you 18.2 ppg and 10.7 rpg from 1992 - 1997 (6 seasons). There wasn't much holding him back in Seattle so I think we saw what Kemp was. Yeah, if he was more dedicated from his time with Clev going forward, his peak and overall career might've been better but he still came close to maxing out in Seattle.

[Duffy Pratt]

Eddie Griffin, Vin Baker both to alcohol.

Magic Johnson deserves an honorable mention for the aids virus he "attained".

I would also put in Yao Ming, who wrecked his career through overuse, and definitely a waste of his talent to have him playing year round, every year.

[ClipperRevival]

Bynum doesn't count, he simply had health issues. Yes, he was lackadaisical at times and had a aloof attitude and wanted to score much more than play D but he was 24 when his knees started to give out on him. He would've been a dominant big by now if he didn't have health issues. Can't fault a guy for that.

[ClipperRevival]

Odom is the perfect example. Based on sheer tangibles, this guy should've been an elite force. 6'11", long as hell, incredibly coordinated and fluid and had the overall skills to be much more impactful. Just didn't have it between the ears. Beta mentality for sure. Didn't want "the man" title and he needed another superstar to take the spotlight away from him. In that sense, Kobe and Gasol was perfect for him where he could be the 3rd wheel. But he had the talent to be great.

[ClipperRevival]

If we are talking sheer tangibles, Wes Johnson is someone I always envied for his perfect wing body. 6'8", 210 lbs, long, fluid, coordinated, explosive leaper, high calves and high hips. Just the perfect basketball body. Physically and athletically, there wasn't much separating him from prime Pippen. But right now, he's in his prime at 27 and just signed for the league minimum. The guy should've been much more than what he was. He'll flash his God given athleticism once in a while but just doesn't have it between the ears. Beta mentality.

[ClipperRevival]

Vincent Lamar Carter.

Had everythin (athleticism, talent, natural ability, skill, size), except he didn't want to be the best and was content with just being good.

I think there is some truth to this. He was a great player at his peak and will be in the HOF but he didn't have that alpha mentality to want to take it from his opponents.

[Muskarat]

If we are talking sheer tangibles, Wes Johnson is someone I always envied for his perfect wing body. 6'8", 210 lbs, long, fluid, coordinated, explosive leader, high calves and high hips. Just the perfect basketball body. Physically and athletically, there wasn't much separating him from prime Pippen. But right now, he's in his prime at 27 and just signed for the league minimum. The guy should've been much more than what he was. He'll flash his God given athleticism once in a while but just doesn't have it between the ears. Beta mentality.

Wesley Johnson is stagnation in human form. There's no reason Gerald Green could make tremendous improvements to his game and WJ couldn't/can't

[JimmyMcAdocious]

Speaking of alcohol, isn't that what derailed Phil Ford's career? #2 pick, rookie of the year, all nba 2nd team as a rookie, first three years he averages 16.5/8.2/1.8 steals on 47%. Made the playoffs all three years, including the conference finals in one year, for a team that had only made the playoffs once since moving to KC. Most unc fans have him the GOAT, so there's that.

Schooling the Pearl as a rookie
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIlYHq4SE0M

[plowking]

Anthony Randolph. This guy is the perfect build for basketball but he can't put shit together on the court.

Probably one of the most frustrating talents ever.

[kennethgriffin]

jason williams

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CowGWMVPPw


shoulda been the next pistol pete


but he was traded from sacramento, lost his confidence... and it was all downhill from there

[dreamwarrior]

I think there is some truth to this. He was a great player at his peak and will be in the HOF but he didn't have that alpha mentality to want to take it from his opponents.
Thats why I liked the Clippers version of him more. He played aggressive and was the man there, though by default.

[SHAQisGOAT]

I forgot about Billy Ray Bates...

6'4, 210 lbs, great physique, skilled, played 6 Playoffs games in his NBA career averaging 26.7 PPG on 54.5/37.5/80.6... But he just had terrible discipline, and even messed with booze and drugs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xeGS6C-H1M




Speaking of alcohol, isn't that what derailed Phil Ford's career? #2 pick, rookie of the year, all nba 2nd team as a rookie, first three years he averages 16.5/8.2/1.8 steals on 47%. Made the playoffs all three years, including the conference finals in one year, for a team that had only made the playoffs once since moving to KC. Most unc fans have him the GOAT, so there's that.

Schooling the Pearl as a rookie
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIlYHq4SE0M

Great mention... Yea, think it was the liquor, Phil could ball though.



jason williams

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CowGWMVPPw


shoulda been the next pistol pete


but he was traded from sacramento, lost his confidence... and it was all downhill from there

Don't know about next Pistol Pete but yea, White Chocolate is a pretty good mention here.
Loved to watch him play.

[warriorfan]

Anthony Randolph. This guy is the perfect build for basketball but he can't put shit together on the court.

Probably one of the most frustrating talents ever.

we thought he was gonna be dope, one of my homies back in the day made his xbox login name "AR4"

:roll:

fucc anthony randolph

[Gileraracer]

LeBron James. Had the potential to bring a championship to the team that drafted him, with guys that where built around him but instead colluded with 2 superstars and then again colluded with 2 other Superstars just to be 2/6 in finals.

What a waste of talent :(

[CeltsGarlic]

Michael Redd

[ClipperRevival]

Wesley Johnson is stagnation in human form. There's no reason Gerald Green could make tremendous improvements to his game and WJ couldn't/can't

It's a shame. I would give anything to be blessed with his body. He won the genetic lottery and he's just wasting it away. His bball IQ is laughable and every time he makes a dumb play, he just laughs it off, like he doesn't even really care.

[Muskarat]

It's a shame. I would give anything to be blessed with his body. He won the genetic lottery and he's just wasting it away. His bball IQ is laughable and every time he makes a dumb play, he just laughs it off, like he doesn't even really care.

Exactly. I'm not really sure where he goes from here. He's too soft to be a consistent slasher and he's not anything special as a 3 and D guy. There was actually a time I was lobbying for him to gain weight and try being an incredibly poor man's LeBron, but of course even that is beyond him. It's so frustrating because he's still young and if he improved even marginally year by year he'd have some actual value.

[ClipperRevival]

Exactly. I'm not really sure where he goes from here. He's too soft to be a consistent slasher and he's not anything special as a 3 and D guy. There was actually a time I was lobbying for him to gain weight and try being an incredibly poor man's LeBron, but of course even that is beyond him. It's so frustrating because he's still young and if he improved even marginally year by year he'd have some actual value.

Yeah, his problem is he doesn't excel at any one thing. His bball IQ is just terrible and he doesn't think or anticipate. He just reacts. And he obviously doesn't care too much about improving as he's always smiling when he does something dumb.

But I'm glad the Clippers have him. He'll probably start the season as a fringe bench player given how strong this roster is. But hopefully, by playoff time, he becomes part of the regular rotation and plays up to his potential.

[Muskarat]

Yeah, his problem is he doesn't excel at any one thing. His bball IQ is just terrible and he doesn't think or anticipate. He just reacts. And he obviously doesn't care too much about improving as he's always smiling when he does something dumb.

But I'm glad the Clippers have him. He'll probably start the season as a fringe bench player given how strong this roster is. But hopefully, by playoff time, he becomes part of the regular rotation and plays up to his potential.

It's funny because he's the anti-Paul Pierce lol. If he learned his X's and O's he could be a viable piece in a crazy athletic frontcourt with him, Blake/Smith, and DJ. Now I can't even fathom how ineffective that would be but it sounds like something to do in 2K at least for maximum alley oop spam

[qrich]

Darius Miles

[ClipperRevival]

It's funny because he's the anti-Paul Pierce lol. If he learned his X's and O's he could be a viable piece in a crazy athletic frontcourt with him, Blake/Smith, and DJ. Now I can't even fathom how ineffective that would be but it sounds like something to do in 2K at least for maximum alley oop spam

Clips definitely have some serious athleticism. I really like Wes. I think he's a good guy. He just needs to take the game more seriously and not just laugh away his mistakes. If anyone can help him, maybe it's Doc.

[kshutts1]

Jordan -- Imagine his resume if he didn't retire for those 2 seasons? Nor does he retire after '98, only to come back like four years later?

Shaq -- What if he treated the RS like the POs, and prepared for them similarly, instead of "playing his way" in to shape?

Wilt -- How would a consistent approach to the game, and definitely a less self-conscious one, have changed his career?

Could mention a ton of players from the earlier years of basketball, all due to very similar circumstances, but I'll mention...
Elgin Baylor -- What if the NBA offered enough money for him to focus on the sport solely? So he didn't have to be an Army Reserves guy, and miss a ton of time in one of his seasons (I think the '62 season)?

David Robinson -- Missed four years to fulfill his military commitment.

Connie Hawkins -- What if he played in the NBA during the entirety of his prime? He entered the league at 28 (I think) and a competing GM still thought highly enough of Connie to offer, literally, his entire roster in trade. It was turned down. Imagine if the kid entered the NBA at 20?

[riseagainst]

Wilt Chamberlain. Had he had a stronger mentality, he could have cracked into top 20 GOAT.

[senelcoolidge]

Roy Tarpley
Very talented. Drugs and alcohol ruined his career. Banned from NBA. Won 6th man award one year. He still managed to average a double double for his career. R.I.P.

Derrick McKey
He was a talented guy but just seemed to be fine with being just average/good.

Benoit Benjamin
The enigmatic big man. He had talent, but lazy AF. When he wanted to play he was good.

Richard Dumas
High flyer. Drugs basically.

[Dr Hawk]

Pau Gasol. He lacks Garnett's attitude and passion which is why he hasn't maximized his talent.

[MEB2kDeez]

Rodman.

[swagga]

could've beens:

shaq + discipline
lebron + shooting
odom + motivation
yao + health
len bias - drugs
magic - aids
pippen + own team
grant hill/penny hardaway + health
vince carter + fundamentals
tmac + health
chamberlain - chokes

[Rooster]

Bison Dele - very talented, just did not have that passion for basketball.

Keon Clark- alcoholic

[Muskarat]

https://nbcprobasketballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/larry-sanders.png
This guy as well

[chips93]

Beasley?

this

as a freshman could score from all over the court, in the post, from three, in transition, slashing, put backs, not to mention a beast on the glass.

too much weed and too little practice and now hes a benchwarmer instead of an all-star.

if rose didnt have such a great march, beasley easily could have gone first, and he'd be considered an even bigger bust.

[chips93]

Ramon Sessions mentally folded when he went to the Lakers. Not like we were expecting him to become Magic Johnson or anything but many expected he'd become a Jeff League level player in a new environment with expectations. Yeah, not quite

he was just never that good

i watched him a ton in cleveland, and you could see he was just a one-dimensional player putting up decent stats on a bad team that nobody took seriously.

he's the kind of player that if you dont scout, or play hard against him he can look good, but if you just know to take away his drive, he doesnt have a backup plan.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Roy Tarpley
Very talented. Drugs and alcohol ruined his career. Banned from NBA. Won 6th man award one year. He still managed to average a double double for his career. R.I.P.

Derrick McKey
He was a talented guy but just seemed to be fine with being just average/good.

Benoit Benjamin
The enigmatic big man. He had talent, but lazy AF. When he wanted to play he was good.

Richard Dumas
High flyer. Drugs basically.

Great mentions, forgot about Tarpley and even McKey. Many people don't know about Benoit but you're totally right there, always seemed like he could've been much more, given his body, athleticism and even skill.



https://nbcprobasketballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/larry-sanders.png
This guy as well

True, and Beasley is also a good mention.