Kobe and Shaqs Finals averages 2000-2002

[dubeta]

Finals averages


Shaq - 35.9 points 15.2 rebounds 59.5% FG

Kobe - 22.0 points 6.1 rebounds 42.5% FG





Discuss

[TheMarkMadsen]

Kobe played really well in the 01 and 02 finals

his 01 finals gets underrated because he had a bad game 1, but after that he led the team in scoring the next two games then dropped 19/10/9 the next and then 26/12/6 in the close out game..

27/6/5 in 02 on 50+%

pretty fuccing good performances :confusedshrug: :confusedshrug:

[catch24]

Kobe was a good #2 behind Shaq. Probably the greatest #2 of all-time.

Its part of the reason dude wanted to prove (and did) he could lead as THE guy.

[dubeta]

14 ppg difference between Kobe and Shaq and 17% FG difference


As a reference thats similar to the ppg difference between LeBron and Bosh's Finals from 2012-2014


Who's rings count more? Kobe's 2nd option rings scoring 14 ppg less and 10 less rebounds? Or Bosh's 3rd option rings averaging 14 ppg less and 5 less rebounds?





Is Bosh also consideration for top 10 all time for those rings like Kobe is?

[TheMarkMadsen]

an no he didn't have the best finals in 00' but he was intentionally injured early in the series, including the game he was injured where he played 9 minutes..

he was extremely clutch in game 4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzmRk15I7g4

and lets not forget they wouldn't have even made the finals without Kobe..

game 7 WCF stats

Kobe = 25/11/7 with 4 blocks..

Shaq = 18/9/5 with 1 blocks and 4+ turnovers..

Kobe led the team in scoring, rebounding, assist, and blocks in the most crucial game of the playoffs..

[KembaWalker]

lol at posting rebound stats

[TheMarkMadsen]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BTId0VHCAAA6yfD.jpg

[Mr. Jabbar]

lol KOBALD the 2nd fiddle :roll:

I know I shouldn't be laughing tho, the player I root for (leking) has empty-stated his way to 2/6, at least kobe then won with gasol and shaq never won shit without a good mamba. sorry guys, making fun of kobe took the best of me there :(

[dubeta]

14 ppg difference between Kobe and Shaq and 17% FG difference


As a reference thats similar to the ppg difference between LeBron and Bosh's Finals from 2012-2014


Who's rings count more? Kobe's 2nd option rings scoring 14 ppg less and 10 less rebounds? Or Bosh's 3rd option rings averaging 14 ppg less and 5 less rebounds?





Is Bosh also consideration for top 10 all time for those rings like Kobe is?


Wow great post dubeta! Interesting questions




- dubeta

[KembaWalker]

Wow great post dubeta! Interesting questions




- dubeta

Always knew you were the type to high five yourself in public :applause:

[JT123]

In b4 Kobe stans and their "but the WCF was the real Finals!" :rolleyes:

[dubeta]

In b4 Kobe stans and their "but the WCF was the real Finals!" :rolleyes:

Dont know whats more cringeworthy, Kobe stans saying " But WCF..." Or Wilt stans saying " But regular season..." :lol

[Round Mound]

Finals averages


Shaq - 35.9 points 15.2 rebounds 59.5% FG

Kobe - 22.0 points 6.1 rebounds 42.5% FG





Discuss

Its quite clear who carried who. :confusedshrug:

[dubeta]

Its quite clear who carried who. :confusedshrug:

Prime Barkley > Prime Kobe in overall impact imo

[Mr. Jabbar]

In b4 Kobe stans and their "but the WCF was the real Finals!" :rolleyes:

yeah, its sad but true tho :( , those little kobe-tard pests are so right sometimes i just want to cry myself out with the rest of the lebron familia :cry: can i get a hug guys?

[JT123]

14 ppg difference between Kobe and Shaq and 17% FG difference


As a reference thats similar to the ppg difference between LeBron and Bosh's Finals from 2012-2014


Who's rings count more? Kobe's 2nd option rings scoring 14 ppg less and 10 less rebounds? Or Bosh's 3rd option rings averaging 14 ppg less and 5 less rebounds?





Is Bosh also consideration for top 10 all time for those rings like Kobe is?
I never even thought about this. It's tough, but I would have to say baldbe's second option rings count just slightly more than Bosh's 3rd option rings. Both were pathetic for large portions of the Finals, but with Bosh missing nearly half the 2012 playoff run I guess baldbe has to get the nod. :confusedshrug:
Still can't believe Bron managed to carry such a soft and pathetic "big man" to multiple titles. I guess that's why he's the GOAT though.

[dubeta]

can i get a hug guys?




:cheers:


Its alright bro! For what its worth I still think Kobe is better than Bosh all-time

[Mr. Jabbar]

:cheers:


Its alright bro!

thx for that e-hug :cheers: feeling better now :ohwell:

[kennethgriffin]

2nd leading scorer on a championship team



Playoffs:

2001 Kobe Bryant 29.4
2002 Kobe Bryant 26.6
1986 Kevin Mchale 24.9
1958 Bob Pettit 24.2
1963 Sam Jones 23.8
1966 John Havlicek 23.6
1972 Jerry West 22.9
2012 Dwyane Wade 22.8
1987 Magic Johnson 21.8
1967 Wilt Chamberlain 21.7
1991 Scottie Pippen 21.6
1985 James Worthy 21.5
1978 Bob Dandridge 21.2
2000 Kobe Bryant 21.1
1957 Bill Sharman 21.1
1976 Dave Cowens 21.0
1979 Dennis Johnson 20.9
2005 Manu Ginobili 20.8
2007 Tony Parker 20.8
1962 Tom Heinsohn 20.7
1968 Sam Jones 20.5
1995 Clyde Drexler 20.5
1974 Dave Cowens 20.5
1982 Kareem Abdul Jabbar 20.4
1980 Jamaal Wilkes 20.3
1956 Neil Johnston 20.3
1993 Scottie Pippen 20.1
1959 Bill Sharman 20.1
2006 Shaquille O'neal 20.0
1988 Magic Johnson 19.9
2010 Pau Gasol 19.6
1992 Scottie Pippen 19.5
1997 Scottie Pippen 19.2
1971 Bob Dandridge 19.2
1961 Bill Russell 19.1
2008 Kevin Garnett 18.8
1983 Andrew Tony 18.8
2015 Klay Thompson 18.6
1965 John Havlicek 18.5
1960 Bill Russell 18.5
2009 Pau Gasol 18.3
1977 Bill Walton 18.2
1990 Joe Dumars 18.2
1989 Joe Dumars 17.6
2011 Jason Terry 17.5
1964 Tom Heinsohn 17.4
1970 Dick Barnett 16.9
1996 Scottie Pippen 16.9
1998 Scottie Pippen 16.8
1969 Sam Jones 16.8
1984 Dennis Johnson 16.6
2004 Chauncey Billups 16.4
2014 Tim Duncan 16.3
1981 Cedric Maxwell 16.1
1973 Earl Monroe 16.1
1952 Jim Pollard 16.1
2013 Dwyane Wade 15.9
1951 Bob Davies 15.9
1999 David Robinson 15.6
1975 Jamaal Wilkes 15.0
2003 Tony Parker 14.7
1953 Jim Pollard 14.3
1994 Vernon Maxwell 13.8
1955 Red Kerr 13.8
1950 Vern Mikkelsen 13.0
1954 Jim Pollard 12.3




Finals:

2002 Kobe Bryant 26.8
2001 Kobe bryant 24.6
1958 Bob Pettit 24.0 ( Cliff Hagan 25.3, playoffs and finals leader )
1986 Larry Bird 24.0 ( Mchale 25.8ppg )
1985 James Worthy 23.7
1971 Oscar Robertson 23.5
1963 Tom Heinsohn 23.3 ( Jones 24.6 )
1966 Sam Jones 22.9
1974 Dave Cowens 22.7
1979 Dennis Johnson 22.6 ( Gus Williams 29.0ppg finals, playoffs leader too..wtf? )
2012 Dwyane Wade 22.6
1959 Tie* Sharman/Ramsay 22.5 ( heinsohn 24.2 )
1962 Sam Jones 22.1 ( russell 22.8 )
1983 Andrew Tony 22.0 ( Julius Erving 3rd option in playoffs and finals )
1957 Bill Sharman 21.8 ( Heinsohn 24.0 )
1987 Kareem Abdul Jabbar 21.7
1980 Magic Johnson 21.5
1995 Clyde Drexler 21.5
1989 Isiah Thomas 21.3
1993 Scottie Pippen 21.2
1988 Magic Johnson 21.1
1968 Bailey Howell 21.0
2004 Chauncey Billups 21.0 (Rip playoff and finals leader. robbed )
1992 Scottie Pippen 20.8
1991 Scottie Pippen 20.8
1990 Joe Dumars 20.6
1976 Dave Cowens 20.5
1978 Bob Dandridge 20.4
2008 Ray Allen 20.3
1997 Scottie Pippen 20.0
1972 Jerry West 19.8
2013 Dwyane Wade 19.6
2005 Manu Ginobili 18.7
1969 Sam Jones 18.7
1970 Dick Barnett 18.6
2010 Pau Gasol 18.6
2009 Pau Gasol 18.6
1977 Bill Walton 18.5
1960 Frank Ramsay 18.4 ( Heinsohn 22.4 )
1964 John Havlicek 18.4
2007 Tim Duncan 18.3
1965 John Havlicek 18.2
2011 Jason Terry 18.0
1982 Kareem Abdul Jabbar 18.0
2014 Kawhi Leonard 17.8
1967 Wilt Chamberlain 17.7 ( Hal Greer 26.0ppg. would have been mvp )
1961 Bill Russell 17.6 ( heinsohn 22.0 )
1984 Dennis Johnson 17.6
1951 Bob Davies 17.0
1999 David Robinson 16.6
1973 Willis Reed 16.4
1952 Jim Pollard 16.4
2015 Andre Iguodala 16.3
1998 Scottie Pippen 15.7
1996 Scottie Pippen 15.7
2000 Kobe Bryant 15.6 ( *19.0 minus the 2 point injury game )
1981 Larry Bird 15.3 ( ....................wtf? )
1953 Jim Pollard 14.4
2003 Tony Parker 14.0
2006 Antoine Walker 13.8 ( Shaq only averaged 13.7 )
1956 Neil Johnston 13.6 ( Arizin 27.6 )
1950 Jim Pollard 13.6 ( mikan 32.1 )
1994 Vernon Maxwell 13.4
1955 Kerr 12.2 ( schayes 19.0 )
1975 Jamaal Wilkes 11.5
1954 Pollard 10.8 ( Mikan 18.1 )





discuss

[AnaheimLakers24]

Greatest 1-2 punch ever.

[dubeta]

http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lwvmunNzox1qjkukyo1_500.gif

Greatest 1-2 punch ever.


Agreed. :lol

[kennethgriffin]

Agreed. :lol


give any real fighter 2 free punches and i expect them to drop the other guy


kobe at them like latina p*ssy

[Mr. Jabbar]

Agreed. :lol

did kobe even move back? :eek: i wish OUR hero leKING would stand ground like that..too bad he didn't get close enough to mirza :(

#leclutch

[Lebron23]

Agreed. :lol


:oldlol: :lol :oldlol:

[kennethgriffin]

i said it before and i'l say it again

if i picked my favorite sport or player based on fighting skills. the last thing i would have done is select a sport dominated by black people

[IllegalD]

Yet ANOTHER meltdown thread by LeBron Stanleys.

2-4 (soon to be a completely legacy ass-f*cking 2-5) in the finals must hurt soooooo gooood, boys. :lol :applause: :roll:

[Magic 32]

:oldlol: :lol :oldlol:

I thought you prefered Lebron because he was a "good guy".

Would a good guy joke or laugh about dangerous sucker punches?

Are you betraying your idol?

https://media.giphy.com/media/l14qxlCgJ0zUk/giphy.gif

[Lebron23]

I thought you prefered Lebron because he was a "good guy".

Would a good guy joke or laugh about dangerous sucker punches?

Are you betraying your idol?

https://media.giphy.com/media/l14qxlCgJ0zUk/giphy.gif


SidekickBe is a bully. I am glad Chris Childs put him in his place. He tried to pick up a fight against a smaller player. And he got punched twice.

[Lebron23]

Yet ANOTHER meltdown thread by LeBron Stanleys.

2-4 (soon to be a completely legacy ass-f*cking 2-5) in the finals must hurt soooooo gooood, boys. :lol :applause: :roll:


Irving and Love won't be injured in the finals again. It sucks that the Warriors beat some injured team in the playoffs. It looks like Curry and his teammates sold their souls to Satan.

[KnittingRyu]

Kobe played really well in the 01 and 02 finals

his 01 finals gets underrated because he had a bad game 1, but after that he led the team in scoring the next two games then dropped 19/10/9 the next and then 26/12/6 in the close out game..

27/6/5 in 02 on 50+%

pretty fuccing good performances :confusedshrug: :confusedshrug:

What were Shaq's stats those games?

[Akrazotile]

Finals averages


Shaq - 35.9 points 15.2 rebounds 59.5% FG

Kobe - 22.0 points 6.1 rebounds 42.5% FG





Discuss


Jesus Christ. That's not a Batman-Robin situation. That's a Biggie - Craig Mack situation.

[DonDadda59]

Jesus Christ. That's not a Batman-Robin situation. That's a Biggie - Craig Mack situation.

Goddamnit. Now the neighbor's dog won't stop yapping caused I legit laughed out loud. :facepalm

Biggie-Craig Mack :yaohappy:

[Lebron23]

Jesus Christ. That's not a Batman-Robin situation. That's a Biggie - Craig Mack situation.


http://pbs.twimg.com/media/B4lcg25CYAA8d7M.png


http://boston.grubstreet.com/20120209_kobe_190x190.jpg

http://www.nationalturk.com/en/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/kobe-bryant-turkish-airlines.jpg

[KembaWalker]

Kobe taking them hits like a fvcking champ doe, best believe I'd rather take two jabs to the face then be clowned on by some euro any day

http://nbatitlechase.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Teletovic-laughing-at-lebron.gif

http://cdn0.sbnation.com/assets/3846953/lecryin.gif

lmao at that half flop attempt before he turns around, no one does it better :bowdown:

[20Four]

http://i.imgur.com/tT8DNMH.gif
:roll: :roll: :roll:

[Lebron23]

Kobe taking them hits like a fvcking champ doe, best believe I'd rather take two jabs to the face then be clowned on by some euro any day

http://nbatitlechase.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Teletovic-laughing-at-lebron.gif

http://cdn0.sbnation.com/assets/3846953/lecryin.gif

lmao at that half flop attempt before he turns around, no one does it better :bowdown:


Why is that euro F@ggot backing down like a b1tch when LeBron confronted him??

[nzahir]

Agreed. :lol
:lol
Holy **** thats hilarious
As an objective fan of the game, kobe is still top 10 all time. Around 9-10, but top 10

[kennethgriffin]

Why is that euro F@ggot backing down like a b1tch when LeBron confronted him??


because he was just committing a common foul to stop a fast break and didnt provoke a confrontation

so his natural reaction was to raise his arms up to show his intent and prevent a unwarranted flagrant foul based on the over exuberant retaliative motive via tiny d*ck james

:confusedshrug:

[KembaWalker]

Why is that euro F@ggot backing down like a b1tch when LeBron confronted him??

LeBron wanna fire up when someone's holding him back tho :roll:

[Lebron23]

because he was just committing a common foul to stop a fast break and didnt provoke a confrontation

so his natural reaction was to raise his arms up to show his intent and prevent a unwarranted flagrant foul based on the over exuberant retaliative motive via tiny d*ck james

:confusedshrug:


Dude got scared. Compared that to the gif of Childs punching Kobe. Kobe was the one who confronted Child's, and he got hit by 2 punches.

[KembaWalker]

Dude got scared. Compared his to the gif of Childs punching Kobe. Kobe was the one who confronted Child's, and he got hit by 2 punches.

Shit I didn't know you smile when you're scared :applause:

[Lebron23]

Shit I didn't know you smile when you're scared :applause:

Some guys actually smiled when they were scared.

https://www.google.com/search?q=Smiling+while+scared&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

http://io9.com/why-do-we-smile-and-laugh-when-were-terrified-1441046376

[KembaWalker]

Some guys actually smiled when they were scared.

https://www.google.com/search?q=Smiling+while+scared&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

http://io9.com/why-do-we-smile-and-laugh-when-were-terrified-1441046376



:roll: :roll: :roll: at thinking that is a smile out of fear

Mirza troll facin this nikka

[Quickening]

No one gets scared in the NBA because they know 99.999 percent of the time the other player won't do anything due risk of suspension etc... thats what made the Kobe-Childs incident so funny, Kobe being cocky throwing a sly elbow thinking nothing would happen and getting 1-2...:lol

[knicksman]

Irving and Love won't be injured in the finals again. It sucks that the Warriors beat some injured team in the playoffs. It looks like Curry and his teammates sold their souls to Satan.

Sorry bran stans but kyrie is an unproven alpha so expect 2/7 for your boy:lol

[knicksman]

Kobe taking them hits like a fvcking champ doe, best believe I'd rather take two jabs to the face then be clowned on by some euro any day

http://nbatitlechase.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Teletovic-laughing-at-lebron.gif

http://cdn0.sbnation.com/assets/3846953/lecryin.gif

lmao at that half flop attempt before he turns around, no one does it better :bowdown:

Honestly This is the most beta shet ive ever seen in nba.

[iamgine]

Most agree that 99-00 Kobe was clearly a sidekick. But some would argue that 01 and 02 Kobe was 1A 1B with Shaq.

Well...

Finals average 01 & 02:

Shaq 34 PPG 60 TS% 14 RPG 4.3 APG 3 BPG
Kobe 26 PPG 55 TS% 7 RPG 5.6 APG 1 BPG

To be fair Kobe's numbers were good enough to be 1st option, that's a Dirk like number, but Shaq was just on another level.

[L.A. Jazz]

We can debate finals stats and carrying as Long as you want, but the Eastern conference was bad in those years and the Sixers, Pacers and Nets werent good enought Teams. Espacially at the bigmen spots. Smits, Davis, Chroshere, Perkins - oooooooold Mutombo, Geiger, Ratliff, MacCulloch - MacCulloch, Martin, ... those are breakfast for prime Shaq. compared to good western conference Teams. And as smart Team you feed the mismatch (like the Spurs 2007) and milk it.

All said, Shaq was the most dominant player back then and more important than Kobe overall. BUT it's a teamsport and Kobe was clearly a big reason the lakers won important games in many series. i dont rate them like Micheals 6 as leading dog, but they arent worthless, he did his part and wasnt just a roleplayer like Horry or Fish (who did great Things occasionally).

[West-Side]

Lets ignore the match-ups, eh people?
Shaq was feasting on the mis-matches against NJ, Philly & Indiana.
The only two centers that had somewhat of a success against prime Shaquille O'Neal was Sabonis, Divac and the combo of Duncan/Robinson.

Now during those match-ups, Kobe was critical to LA's success.
He dropped a near triple-double in game 7 against Portland if you can't recall.

Kobe averaged 20.4 PPG, 4.9 RPG, 5.9 APG, 1.6 SPG & 2.1 BPG on 44% that series.

LA won in 7 games; you can almost guarantee that LA doesn't win that series without Kobe.

Shaquille still had a great series but he wasn't as dominant; he averaged 25.9 PPG, 12.4 RPG on 54% in almost 46 MPG.

Against the Blazers in 2001: - LA winning 3-0

Shaq: 27 PPG, 15.7 RPG on 48% in 44 MPG
Kobe: 25 PPG, 4.3 RPG, 7.7 APG, 2.3 SPG on 48% in 40 MPG

Against the Spurs in 2001 - LA winning 4-0

Shaq: 27 PPG, 13 RPG on 54%
Kobe: 33.3 PPG, 7 APG, 7 RPG, 1.5 SPG on 52%

Against the Spurs in 2002 - LA winning 4-1

Shaq: 21.4 PPG, 12.2 RPG on 45%
Kobe: 26.2 PPG, 5.4 RPG, 4.8 APG on 46%


Fact is against western conference teams, Kobe was JUST as instrumental to LA's success as Shaq was in 2001 & 2002. He was instrumental to LA beating Portland in 2000.

Every analyst considered the WCF as the real test for the Lakers those 3 years. That's when Kobe sometimes outplayed even Shaq.

They were both terrific against Portland, SA & Sacramento during those years; most would consider those teams tougher than the real NBA finals. Shaq just had a huge advantage against the centers from the east.

In fact, Kobe's numbers actually looks identical to Shaq (some would argue better) against the Blazers, Spurs & Kings.

They faced those teams 8 times from 2000-2002. I honestly don't see Indiana beating Portland in 2000; Philly beating SA in 2001 and NJ definitely ain't beating Sacramento in 2002. There's a reason Shaq never won shit without Kobe until those years, because Kobe was that important to their success.

Lets analyze further shall we.

2000

1st Round: (Vs. Kings) Won 3-2

Kobe - 27.8 PPG, 4.4 RPG, 3.6 APG, 1.2 SPG on 50%
Shaq - 29.4 PPG, 17.4 RPG, 2.8 APG on 54%

2nd Round: (Vs. Phoenix) Won 4-1

Kobe - 21.0 PPG, 3.8 RPG, 3.4 APG, 2.0 SPG, 1.4 BPG on 45%
Shaq - 30.2 PPG, 16.2 RPG, 2.6 APG, 2.6 BPG on 56%

3rd Round: (Vs. Portland) Won 4-3

Kobe - 20.4 PPG, 4.9 RPG, 5.9 APG, 1.6 SPG, 2.1 BPG on 44%
Shaq - 25.9 PPG, 12.4 RPG, 4.3 APG, 1.9 BPG on 54%


2001

1st Round: (Vs. Portland) Won 3-0

Kobe - 25.0 PPG, 4.3 RPG, 7.7 APG, 2.3 SPG on 48%
Shaq - 27.0 PPG, 15.7 RPG, 2.7 APG on 48%

2nd Round: (Vs. Kings) Won 4-0

Kobe - 35 PPG, 9 RPG, 4.3 APG, 1.3 SPG on 47%
Shaq - 33 PPG, 17.3 RPG, 2.3 APG, 3.3 BPG on 60%

3rd Round: (Vs. SA) Won 4-0

Kobe - 33.3 PPG, 7 RPG, 7 APG, 1.5 SPG on 52%
Shaq - 27 PPG, 13 RPG, 2.5 APG on 54%

2002

1st Round: (Vs. Por) Won 3-0

Kobe - 26 PPG, 5.7 RPG, 5.0 APG, 2.0 SPG, 1.7 BPG on 35%
Shaq - 25.7 PPG, 11.3 RPG, 4.0 APG, 1.7 BPG on 56%

2nd Round: (Vs. SAS) Won 4-1

Kobe - 26.2 PPG, 5.4 RPG, 4.8 APG on 46%
Shaq - 21.4 PPG, 12.2 RPG, 3.2 APG on 45%

3rd Round

Kobe - 27.1 PPG, 6.3 RPG, 3.9 APG, 1.4 SPG, 1.1 BPG on 42%
Shaq - 30.3 PPG, 13.6 RPG, 1.6 APG, 2.6 BPG on 53%

Heck, Kobe nearly dropped a triple double against Sacramento in game 7: 30/10/7. Both him and Shaq struggled to shoot but Kobe also had 0 turnovers that game.

In game 6, when LA was down 2-3; he had 31/11/5 on 50% with only 1 turnover.

LA down by 4 late in game 4, Kobe hits two big jumpers to get the game within distance before Horry would hit the game winner.

The fact is, Kobe Bryant was LA's closer and his team won 3 straight titles.
In 2001 & 2002, you can argue that Kobe outplayed Shaq in three out of six of those series.

In 2000, the margin between Shaq & Kobe was pretty wide. The undisputed best player in the world and the other was a borderline top 10 player. However, Kobe did play GREAT basketball against the Kings, Phoenix and Portland. He was instrumental in their win against Sacramento and Portland.

It's downright laughable to suggest that arguably the BEST player in the playoffs in 2001 (arguably better than Shaq) is someone's sidekick. :rolleyes:

In 2002, their numbers were also pretty close until the NBA finals where Shaq yet against had the chance of facing a complete mis-match at center.

[Mr. Jabbar]

Shit I didn't know you smile when you're scared :applause:

:roll:

also watch lebron slowing the F dwn as he actually got near mirza, beta AF :oldlol:

still a huge fan of the king tho

[gigantes]

Kobe was a good #2 behind Shaq. Probably the greatest #2 of all-time.

Its part of the reason dude wanted to prove (and did) he could lead as THE guy.
more like the 'flashy scorer who needed most of the important work done by other people.'

[catch24]

more like the 'flashy scorer who needed most of the important work done by other people.'

I remember when naysayers posted this to troll... evidently gullible fans got brainwashed in the process. :oldlol:

Kobe was clearly the best player and did the 'most important work' on that team. Don't let anybody tell you otherwise, bud.

[gigantes]

please. i was watching him from the beginning of his career and don't need any trolls to tell me what an egomaniacal play-breaker the guy has always been.

but hey look on the bright side-- at least i'm not one of those guys (i know a few) who'd like to see his kneecaps get shattered.

no... i just wouldn't want him on my team for love or money.

[WayOfWade]

Finals averages


Shaq - 35.9 points 15.2 rebounds 59.5% FG

Kobe - 22.0 points 6.1 rebounds 42.5% FG





Discuss
Had the Heat gotten that type of Kobe production out of Wade in 2014, the Heat would've 3-peated. They didn't though, but what can you do?:confusedshrug:

[West-Side]

It's absolutely incredible how many Kobe haters there are on this forum.
The man was a top 5 player in 2002 playoffs; he was arguably the best (or at the very least the 2nd best player in 2001) and was arguably a top 10 player in 2000.

He was a top five player in 2001 & 2002, how is he a sidekick??
He's a legitimate superstar.
And the fact that he was the go-to-guy for LA late in the 4th while Shaq was a liability due to his free throw struggles; how do people not credit the man with those titles is beyond man.

No matter what you tell them, they will only troll.
I just need to learn to ignore these idiots.

[Vaniiiia]

please. i was watching him from the beginning of his career and don't need any trolls to tell me what an egomaniacal play-breaker the guy has always been.

but hey look on the bright side-- at least i'm not one of those guys (i know a few) who'd like to see his kneecaps get shattered.

no... i just wouldn't want him on my team for love or money.
ether.

[sportjames23]

Yo, what did Jabbar get banned for?

[riseagainst]

his fellow lebron fans snitched on him.... always turning their backs on their fellow friends and betraying them......

[gigantes]

ether.
a pleasant-smelling, colorless, volatile liquid that is highly flammable. it is used as an anesthetic and as a solvent or intermediate in industrial processes.

[catch24]

It's absolutely incredible how many Kobe haters there are on this forum.
The man was a top 5 player in 2002 playoffs; he was arguably the best (or at the very least the 2nd best player in 2001) and was arguably a top 10 player in 2000.

He was a top five player in 2001 & 2002, how is he a sidekick??
He's a legitimate superstar.
And the fact that he was the go-to-guy for LA late in the 4th while Shaq was a liability due to his free throw struggles; how do people not credit the man with those titles is beyond man.

No matter what you tell them, they will only troll.
I just need to learn to ignore these idiots.

You think that's bad? There's people on here who legitimately think Kobe wasn't the most important/best player during his 4th and 5th titles.

Do a double-take on that. It's absurd... I know.

[West-Side]

You think that's bad? There's people on here who legitimately think Kobe wasn't the most important/best player during his 4th and 5th titles.


Pau without Kobe before leaving to the Bulls, is 0-20 in the playoffs. :oldlol:

[LoneyROY7]

So the OP is saying that LeBron had significantly more help than Shaq during their respective title runs, right?

[dubeta]

So the OP is saying that LeBron had significantly more help than Shaq during their respective title runs, right?


Nah bro, in fact lebron actually posted a higher PER from 2012-2014 than even Peak Shaq 2000-2002


LeBron > Shaq

Bosh = Kobe


But Lakers role players >>>>> Heats


And Phil Jackson >>> the video coordinator Miami had

[LoneyROY7]

Nah bro, in fact lebron actually posted a higher PER from 2012-2014 than even Peak Shaq 2000-2002


LeBron > Shaq

Bosh = Kobe


But Lakers role players >>>>> Heats


And Phil Jackson >>> the video coordinator Miami had

So if Kobe was Bosh, who else on those Laker teams was comparable to Wade?

[dazzer87]

Finals averages


Shaq - 35.9 points 15.2 rebounds 59.5% FG

Kobe - 22.0 points 6.1 rebounds 42.5% FG





Discuss
nothing to discuss......:lol

[Ne 1]

Shaq was unstoppable and arguably the most dominant player ever at his peak, that doesn't take anything away from Kobe though, because if anything, Kobe created for Shaq more and opened the game for him. By the way, let's not forget in those Finals Shaq went head-to-head against against old Rik Smits in his last season, against a 35 year old Mutombo who although did win a DPOY that season, but based more on his reputation and Todd McCullough.

Also Kobe's 2001 and 2002 Finals were good. 2000 he did have a sub-par series in general (19/6/4/; this is excluding the game where Jalen Rose intentionally injured him early in the game and Kobe didn't return), That can be attributed to the injury in Game 2.

He missed all of Game 3, and was hobbled and limping around for games 4, 5, and 6. He returned after getting injured in Game 4 and single handedly carried the team when Shaq fouled out in the 4th quarter, he hit 4 huge free throws and lit the Pacers up in overtime. So considering he came up with a legendary clutch performance in game 4 and also put up 26/10/4/2/1 with only 1 turn over playing excellent defense in the clinching game, it's not a big deal in terms of his legacy. His defense on Mark Jackson was impressive throughout the series, reminiscent of Pippen's defense on Jackson in the 1998 conference finals. Also, it shouldn't be forgotten how big Kobe came through in the clutch in the other playoff rounds either, particularly Game 7 vs Portland, and his production prior to the Finals was right there with his regular season so it's not a big deal in terms of his legacy.

[Ne 1]

Lets ignore the match-ups, eh people?
Shaq was feasting on the mis-matches against NJ, Philly & Indiana.
The only two centers that had somewhat of a success against prime Shaquille O'Neal was Sabonis, Divac and the combo of Duncan/Robinson.

Now during those match-ups, Kobe was critical to LA's success.
He dropped a near triple-double in game 7 against Portland if you can't recall.

Kobe averaged 20.4 PPG, 4.9 RPG, 5.9 APG, 1.6 SPG & 2.1 BPG on 44% that series.

LA won in 7 games; you can almost guarantee that LA doesn't win that series without Kobe.

Shaquille still had a great series but he wasn't as dominant; he averaged 25.9 PPG, 12.4 RPG on 54% in almost 46 MPG.

Against the Blazers in 2001: - LA winning 3-0

Shaq: 27 PPG, 15.7 RPG on 48% in 44 MPG
Kobe: 25 PPG, 4.3 RPG, 7.7 APG, 2.3 SPG on 48% in 40 MPG

Against the Spurs in 2001 - LA winning 4-0

Shaq: 27 PPG, 13 RPG on 54%
Kobe: 33.3 PPG, 7 APG, 7 RPG, 1.5 SPG on 52%

Against the Spurs in 2002 - LA winning 4-1

Shaq: 21.4 PPG, 12.2 RPG on 45%
Kobe: 26.2 PPG, 5.4 RPG, 4.8 APG on 46%


Fact is against western conference teams, Kobe was JUST as instrumental to LA's success as Shaq was in 2001 & 2002. He was instrumental to LA beating Portland in 2000.

Every analyst considered the WCF as the real test for the Lakers those 3 years. That's when Kobe sometimes outplayed even Shaq.

They were both terrific against Portland, SA & Sacramento during those years; most would consider those teams tougher than the real NBA finals. Shaq just had a huge advantage against the centers from the east.

In fact, Kobe's numbers actually looks identical to Shaq (some would argue better) against the Blazers, Spurs & Kings.

They faced those teams 8 times from 2000-2002. I honestly don't see Indiana beating Portland in 2000; Philly beating SA in 2001 and NJ definitely ain't beating Sacramento in 2002. There's a reason Shaq never won shit without Kobe until those years, because Kobe was that important to their success.

Lets analyze further shall we.

2000

1st Round: (Vs. Kings) Won 3-2

Kobe - 27.8 PPG, 4.4 RPG, 3.6 APG, 1.2 SPG on 50%
Shaq - 29.4 PPG, 17.4 RPG, 2.8 APG on 54%

2nd Round: (Vs. Phoenix) Won 4-1

Kobe - 21.0 PPG, 3.8 RPG, 3.4 APG, 2.0 SPG, 1.4 BPG on 45%
Shaq - 30.2 PPG, 16.2 RPG, 2.6 APG, 2.6 BPG on 56%

3rd Round: (Vs. Portland) Won 4-3

Kobe - 20.4 PPG, 4.9 RPG, 5.9 APG, 1.6 SPG, 2.1 BPG on 44%
Shaq - 25.9 PPG, 12.4 RPG, 4.3 APG, 1.9 BPG on 54%


2001

1st Round: (Vs. Portland) Won 3-0

Kobe - 25.0 PPG, 4.3 RPG, 7.7 APG, 2.3 SPG on 48%
Shaq - 27.0 PPG, 15.7 RPG, 2.7 APG on 48%

2nd Round: (Vs. Kings) Won 4-0

Kobe - 35 PPG, 9 RPG, 4.3 APG, 1.3 SPG on 47%
Shaq - 33 PPG, 17.3 RPG, 2.3 APG, 3.3 BPG on 60%

3rd Round: (Vs. SA) Won 4-0

Kobe - 33.3 PPG, 7 RPG, 7 APG, 1.5 SPG on 52%
Shaq - 27 PPG, 13 RPG, 2.5 APG on 54%

2002

1st Round: (Vs. Por) Won 3-0

Kobe - 26 PPG, 5.7 RPG, 5.0 APG, 2.0 SPG, 1.7 BPG on 35%
Shaq - 25.7 PPG, 11.3 RPG, 4.0 APG, 1.7 BPG on 56%

2nd Round: (Vs. SAS) Won 4-1

Kobe - 26.2 PPG, 5.4 RPG, 4.8 APG on 46%
Shaq - 21.4 PPG, 12.2 RPG, 3.2 APG on 45%

3rd Round

Kobe - 27.1 PPG, 6.3 RPG, 3.9 APG, 1.4 SPG, 1.1 BPG on 42%
Shaq - 30.3 PPG, 13.6 RPG, 1.6 APG, 2.6 BPG on 53%

Heck, Kobe nearly dropped a triple double against Sacramento in game 7: 30/10/7. Both him and Shaq struggled to shoot but Kobe also had 0 turnovers that game.

In game 6, when LA was down 2-3; he had 31/11/5 on 50% with only 1 turnover.

LA down by 4 late in game 4, Kobe hits two big jumpers to get the game within distance before Horry would hit the game winner.

The fact is, Kobe Bryant was LA's closer and his team won 3 straight titles.
In 2001 & 2002, you can argue that Kobe outplayed Shaq in three out of six of those series.

In 2000, the margin between Shaq & Kobe was pretty wide. The undisputed best player in the world and the other was a borderline top 10 player. However, Kobe did play GREAT basketball against the Kings, Phoenix and Portland. He was instrumental in their win against Sacramento and Portland.

It's downright laughable to suggest that arguably the BEST player in the playoffs in 2001 (arguably better than Shaq) is someone's sidekick. :rolleyes:

In 2002, their numbers were also pretty close until the NBA finals where Shaq yet against had the chance of facing a complete mis-match at center.

Great post. It's just funny how Kobe haters want to cherry pick one series from Kobe's worst year during the 3-peat when he was injured (2000 vs Pacers). What about 2001? Drops 35 ppg on Sacramento and 33 ppg on San Antonio and has a good all around series vs Philly (25/8/6) and didn't he average something like 26/5/5 vs New Jersey in the 2002 finals? Hell, IMO, Kobe was the 2nd best player in the entire 2001 playoffs behind Shaq.

[gigantes]

Shaq was unstoppable and arguably the most dominant player ever at his peak, that doesn't take anything away from Kobe though, because if anything, Kobe created for Shaq more and opened the game for him. By the way, let's not forget in those Finals Shaq went head-to-head against against old Rik Smits in his last season, against a 35 year old Mutombo who although did win a DPOY that season, but based more on his reputation and Todd McCullough...
the refs allowed shaq to elbow mutombo in the head all series long. might have been a different series if not.

also, shaq praised big mac's work as a matter of fact. IMO he was quite a serviceable center before his foot disease brought him down.

(i'm just pointing out that the matchups weren't completely one-sided. other than smits, i guess.)

[Hey Yo]

Shaq was unstoppable and arguably the most dominant player ever at his peak, that doesn't take anything away from Kobe though, because if anything, Kobe created for Shaq more and opened the game for him. By the way, let's not forget in those Finals Shaq went head-to-head against against old Rik Smits in his last season, against a 35 year old Mutombo who although did win a DPOY that season, but based more on his reputation and Todd McCullough.

Also Kobe's 2001 and 2002 Finals were good. 2000 he did have a sub-par series in general (19/6/4/; this is excluding the game where Jalen Rose intentionally injured him early in the game and Kobe didn't return), That can be attributed to the injury in Game 2.

He missed all of Game 3, and was hobbled and limping around for games 4, 5, and 6. He returned after getting injured in Game 4 and single handedly carried the team when Shaq fouled out in the 4th quarter, he hit 4 huge free throws and lit the Pacers up in overtime. So considering he came up with a legendary clutch performance in game 4 and also put up 26/10/4/2/1 with only 1 turn over playing excellent defense in the clinching game, it's not a big deal in terms of his legacy. His defense on Mark Jackson was impressive throughout the series, reminiscent of Pippen's defense on Jackson in the 1998 conference finals. Also, it shouldn't be forgotten how big Kobe came through in the clutch in the other playoff rounds either, particularly Game 7 vs Portland, and his production prior to the Finals was right there with his regular season so it's not a big deal in terms of his legacy.
Shaq actually fouled out with 2:30 left to go in OT.

Kobe scored 8 of the Lakers 16pts. in OT. Four of those were after Shaq fouled out.

[Hey Yo]

Pau without Kobe before leaving to the Bulls, is 0-20 in the playoffs. :oldlol:
Kobe missed 8 playoff games while Pau was with LA?

[West-Side]

Kobe missed 8 playoff games while Pau was with LA?

He was 0-16 before joining LA and got swept by SA with Howard on the team, do the ****ing math.

[West-Side]

Off top of my head, I believe Memphis was swept by Phoenix, SA and Dallas in the 1st round (4-0). I'm trying to remember if it was 0-12 or 0-16, either way, Mr. Finals MVP couldn't even make it to the 2nd round without Kobe.

[Hey Yo]

He was 0-16 before joining LA and got swept by SA with Howard on the team, do the ****ing math.
Ok, let's see.

Pau in Memphis made the playoffs 3 years in a row. They played 4 games in each of those series and won zero games. Pau gets traded midway the next season.

So I believe 3 series that went 4gms each means 4x3=12 loses

My math is just ****ing fine, Chico.

[DonDadda59]

Off top of my head, I believe Memphis was swept by Phoenix, SA and Dallas in the 1st round (4-0). I'm trying to remember if it was 0-12 or 0-16, either way, Mr. Finals MVP couldn't even make it to the 2nd round without Kobe.

So I just imagined it happened this past Spring. :biggums:

Now look at the Lakers post Pau.

[Hey Yo]

Off top of my head, I believe Memphis was swept by Phoenix, SA and Dallas in the 1st round (4-0). I'm trying to remember if it was 0-12 or 0-16, either way, Mr. Finals MVP couldn't even make it to the 2nd round without Kobe.
aka..........I tried to make Pau look worse on purpose with faulty stats and got caught.

:oldlol:

[riseagainst]

aka..........I tried to make Pau look worse on purpose with faulty stats and got caught.

:oldlol:

1 more or less series doesn't make or break his point. He is right on point. Look at what happened when Kobe was out the year against SA? swept again bruh. No need to argue technicalities. The point stands.

[DonDadda59]

1 more or less series doesn't make or break his point. He is right on point. Look at what happened when Kobe was out the year against SA? swept again bruh. No need to argue technicalities. The point stands.

Bean post Shaq never made it out of the first round without Pau. Pau just made the second round without Bean. :confusedshrug:

[Levity]

Bean post Shaq never made it out of the first round without Pau. Pau just made the second round without Bean. :confusedshrug:

This is very true. along the same lines as how Jordan, Kobe, and Pau have never accomplished anything substantial without Phil Jackson at the helm

[DonDadda59]

This is very true. along the same lines as how Jordan, Kobe, and Pau have never accomplished anything substantial without Phil Jackson at the helm

Jordan won MVPs, DPOY, scoring titles, and led a shitty Bulls team to the ECF in a tough Eastern Conference before Phil took over.

[Showtime2001]

http://s21.postimg.org/ldjrfur9j/11084580_10205368316101637_947970432_n_jpg_oh_d8.j pg
http://s10.postimg.org/jibcs0rih/11083018_10205368344262341_1906565945_n_jpg_oh_d.j pg

[Magic 32]

SidekickBe is a bully.

http://www.directsportslink.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/speaker_node/speaker-photos/media-945_1.jpg

[Mr Feeny]

Finals averages


Shaq - 35.9 points 15.2 rebounds 59.5% FG

Kobe - 22.0 points 6.1 rebounds 42.5% FG





Discuss

There's nothing to discuss. Everyone knows that he was Shaq's side kick and you just provided the stats to confirm just that. Credit to him having 2 rings as side kick and 1 MVP but that's about it. 22 ppg on 42%fg during the 3 peat run is pretty weak.

[dubeta]

There's nothing to discuss. Everyone knows that he was Shaq's side kick and you just provided the stats to confirm just that. Credit to him having 2 rings as side kick and 1 MVP but that's about it. 22 ppg on 42%fg during the 3 peat run is pretty weak.

Solid points, Kobes career condensed


- Enters the league

- averages 7 ppg in his rookie season

- Wins 3 rings with a 22 point 42% fg Finals compared to Shaqs 36 points and 16 rebounds

- Places in the lottery and loses in the 1st round without Shaq

- Wins 2 rings being 2nd in WS and PER to Pau Gasol

- Remains in the lottery after Pau Gasol left




The sad thing is that nothing bolded above ^ is an exaggeration or a lie, it is 100% verifiable and correct, and perfectly summarizes Kobe's career

[JT123]

Solid points, Kobes career condensed


- Enters the league

- averages 7 ppg in his rookie season

- Wins 3 rings with a 22 point 42% fg Finals compared to Shaqs 36 points and 16 rebounds

- Places in the lottery and loses in the 1st round without Shaq

- Wins 2 rings being 2nd in WS and PER to Pau Gasol

- Remains in the lottery after Pau Gasol left




The sad thing is that nothing bolded above ^ is an exaggeration or a lie, it is 100% verifiable and correct, and perfectly summarizes Kobe's career
I am a HUGE Kobe stan, and as much as it pains me to admit, this is absolutely true. :(

[Mr Feeny]

I am a HUGE Kobe stan, and as much as it pains me to admit, this is absolutely true. :(

Even the huge Kobe stan admits to this, as much as it pains him! :lebronamazed:

[knicksman]

Bran/wilt=goat stats but 2/6, 2/7:lol

[DMV2]

Jordan won MVPs, DPOY, scoring titles, and led a shitty Bulls team to the ECF in a tough Eastern Conference before Phil took over.
That shut his ass up quick. :oldlol:

[West-Side]

Bean post Shaq never made it out of the first round without Pau. Pau just made the second round without Bean. :confusedshrug:

That's true but Kobe didn't play on 50 win teams though?
He was the heavy underdog both years against Phoenix and went 4-8 against that team, almost causing an upset.

He had 50 points in game 6 (LA was up by 3) with seconds left.
Phoenix misses a shot; his bum ass teammates couldn't secure a rebound and Tim Thomas hits a game tying shot at the buzzer. Phoenix ends up winning in OT.

Pau was 0-12 before coming to LA; on PRETTY darn good teams.
He also went 0-4 without Kobe in 2012, while he had Dwight on the team.

Of course Gasol won a playoff game with the Bulls. Most were considering them one (if not) the deepest team in the league, prior to the beginning of last season. :rolleyes:

[West-Side]

Bean post Shaq never made it out of the first round without Pau. Pau just made the second round without Bean. :confusedshrug:

Kobe & Lamar were injured in 2005.
In 2006 & 2007, he made the playoffs with a historical awful squad.
Pau left LA AFTER Kobe tore his achilles.

You truly are shit for brains.
Oh, and lets not forget before Pau came to LA; Kobe had LA atop the western conference standings. It wasn't until Bynum's injury that LA were forced to trade for Pau.

[riseagainst]

Jordan won MVPs, DPOY, scoring titles, and led a shitty Bulls team to the ECF in a tough Eastern Conference before Phil took over.

applying your logic

1-9 without Pippen.

:confusedshrug:

[HOoopCityJones]

Jordan won MVPs, DPOY, scoring titles, and led a shitty Bulls team to the ECF in a tough Eastern Conference before Phil took over.

Yet never won anything that's worth a shit until Pippen and Phil came. We could play this biased game of "logic" all day. :cheers:

[AlphaWolf24]

The Finals?.....vs The weak east?

games were over at halftime....Shaq was dominating vs weak azz european centers...

real Finals were against the West.( where Kobe was the best player especially against the Spurs/2nd GOAT team of the 00's)


and besides , Shaq is a beast...it's not like Kobe was being outplayed by Cedric Maxwell or JJ barea.

[pauk]

What is there to discuss, Shaq was the man/best player of that team, he carried those guys & Kobe for those 3 championships, Kobe gave his best effort in the 3rd championship, he was great, but yes Kobe got literally carried to at least 2 championships, in the 1st one he averaged something like 12-14? ppg, missing a game, playing injured, shooting horrible, turning over, whatever... it did NOT matter due to Shaq as they still won..... and i dont understand why Kobe fans find that insulting... Shaq is arguably the most dominant talent ever & was in his prime, meanwhile Kobe simply wasnt that good early in his career... He came into the league as a benchwarmer his 1st season battling for just minutes averaging 8 ppg, next season he battled for being 6th man, next seasons he battled for a starting spot, thats just some month before Lakers won their championship against Pacers where Kobe was absolutely horrible or simply playing by his standards baring the circumstances... he simply wasnt that good early on...

[TheMarkMadsen]

What is there to discuss, Shaq was the man/best player of that team, he carried those guys & Kobe for those 3 championships, Kobe gave his best effort in the 3rd championship, he was great, but yes Kobe got literally carried to at least 2 championships, in the 1st one he averaged something like 12-14? ppg, missing a game, playing injured, shooting horrible, turning over, whatever... it did NOT matter due to Shaq as they still won..... and i dont understand why Kobe fans find that insulting... Shaq is arguably the most dominant talent ever & was in his prime, meanwhile Kobe simply wasnt that good early in his career... He came into the league as a benchwarmer his 1st season battling for just minutes averaging 8 ppg, next season he battled for being 6th man, next seasons he battled for a starting spot, thats just some month before Lakers won their championship against Pacers where Kobe was absolutely horrible or simply playing by his standards baring the circumstances... he simply wasnt that good early on...

2001 = 29/7/6

2002 = 27/6/5

ok Pauk :oldlol: :oldlol:

[Doranku]

What is there to discuss, Shaq was the man/best player of that team, he carried those guys & Kobe for those 3 championships, Kobe gave his best effort in the 3rd championship, he was great, but yes Kobe got literally carried to at least 2 championships, in the 1st one he averaged something like 12-14? ppg, missing a game, playing injured, shooting horrible, turning over, whatever... it did NOT matter due to Shaq as they still won..... and i dont understand why Kobe fans find that insulting... Shaq is arguably the most dominant talent ever & was in his prime, meanwhile Kobe simply wasnt that good early in his career... He came into the league as a benchwarmer his 1st season battling for just minutes averaging 8 ppg, next season he battled for being 6th man, next seasons he battled for a starting spot, thats just some month before Lakers won their championship against Pacers where Kobe was absolutely horrible or simply playing by his standards baring the circumstances... he simply wasnt that good early on...

Kobe's first two finals (minus the game he got injured and played 9 minutes): 22/5/7 on 40% w/ 2.7 TOs

LeBron's first two finals: 19/7/8 on 42% w/ 4.7 TOs


:oldlol: Bron's numbers are hardly any better (if at all) despite being in the heart of his prime for 6/10 games. Pitiful.

[Mr Feeny]

Finals averages


Shaq - 35.9 points 15.2 rebounds 59.5% FG

Kobe - 22.0 points 6.1 rebounds 42.5% FG





Discuss



If these are accurate, then it's pretty cringe-worthy hearing Kobe fans attempt to give him credit for any of those rings:lol