Who was the 2nd Greatest Player of the 90s?

[Fallen Angel]

Karl Malone: 8x All-Star, 2x MVP, 9x All-NBA First Team, 3x All-Defensive First Team, 2 NBA Finals Appearances


Season Age G GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
1990-91 27 82 82 40.3 10.3 19.6 .527 0.0 0.2 .286 8.3 10.8 .770 2.9 8.9 11.8 3.3 1.1 1.0 3.0 3.3 29.0
1991-92 28 81 81 37.7 9.9 18.7 .526 0.0 0.2 .176 8.3 10.7 .778 2.8 8.4 11.2 3.0 1.3 0.6 3.1 2.8 28.0
1992-93 29 82 82 37.8 9.7 17.6 .552 0.0 0.2 .200 7.5 10.2 .740 2.8 8.4 11.2 3.8 1.5 1.0 2.9 3.2 27.0
1993-94 30 82 82 40.6 9.4 18.9 .497 0.1 0.4 .250 6.2 9.0 .694 2.9 8.6 11.5 4.0 1.5 1.5 2.9 3.3 25.2
1994-95 31 82 82 38.1 10.1 18.9 .536 0.1 0.5 .268 6.3 8.5 .742 1.9 8.7 10.6 3.5 1.6 1.0 2.9 3.3 26.7
1995-96 32 82 82 38.0 9.6 18.5 .519 0.2 0.5 .400 6.2 8.6 .723 2.1 7.7 9.8 4.2 1.7 0.7 2.4 3.0 25.7
1996-97 33 82 82 36.6 10.5 19.2 .550 0.0 0.2 .000 6.4 8.4 .755 2.4 7.5 9.9 4.5 1.4 0.6 2.8 2.6 27.4
1997-98 34 81 81 37.4 9.6 18.2 .530 0.0 0.1 .333 7.8 10.2 .761 2.3 8.0 10.3 3.9 1.2 0.9 3.0 2.9 27.0
1998-99 35 49 49 37.4 8.0 16.3 .493 0.0 0.0 .000 7.7 9.8 .788 2.2 7.3 9.4 4.1 1.3 0.6 3.3 2.7 23.8

[riseagainst]

inb4 someone says MJ.

:lol

[West-Side]

Hakeem Olajuwon.

[West-Side]

Karl Malone: 8x All-Star, 2x MVP, 9x All-NBA First Team, 3x All-Defensive First Team, 2 NBA Finals Appearances


Season Age G GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
1990-91 27 82 82 40.3 10.3 19.6 .527 0.0 0.2 .286 8.3 10.8 .770 2.9 8.9 11.8 3.3 1.1 1.0 3.0 3.3 29.0
1991-92 28 81 81 37.7 9.9 18.7 .526 0.0 0.2 .176 8.3 10.7 .778 2.8 8.4 11.2 3.0 1.3 0.6 3.1 2.8 28.0
1992-93 29 82 82 37.8 9.7 17.6 .552 0.0 0.2 .200 7.5 10.2 .740 2.8 8.4 11.2 3.8 1.5 1.0 2.9 3.2 27.0
1993-94 30 82 82 40.6 9.4 18.9 .497 0.1 0.4 .250 6.2 9.0 .694 2.9 8.6 11.5 4.0 1.5 1.5 2.9 3.3 25.2
1994-95 31 82 82 38.1 10.1 18.9 .536 0.1 0.5 .268 6.3 8.5 .742 1.9 8.7 10.6 3.5 1.6 1.0 2.9 3.3 26.7
1995-96 32 82 82 38.0 9.6 18.5 .519 0.2 0.5 .400 6.2 8.6 .723 2.1 7.7 9.8 4.2 1.7 0.7 2.4 3.0 25.7
1996-97 33 82 82 36.6 10.5 19.2 .550 0.0 0.2 .000 6.4 8.4 .755 2.4 7.5 9.9 4.5 1.4 0.6 2.8 2.6 27.4
1997-98 34 81 81 37.4 9.6 18.2 .530 0.0 0.1 .333 7.8 10.2 .761 2.3 8.0 10.3 3.9 1.2 0.9 3.0 2.9 27.0
1998-99 35 49 49 37.4 8.0 16.3 .493 0.0 0.0 .000 7.7 9.8 .788 2.2 7.3 9.4 4.1 1.3 0.6 3.3 2.7 23.8



The Dream:

7 All-Stars
2 Championship
MVP
2 Finals MVP
2 Time DPOTY

[catch24]

Hakeem or Shaq.

Shaq was named one of the 50 greatest players in 1997... which is absolutely insane.

[West-Side]

Karl actually made 10 All-NBA 1st Teams and 9 All-Star selections from 90' to 99'. Hakeem was still clearly the better player.

Another example of when context matters.
Hakeem faced off against more competition at the center position than Karl did at PF; which is why Karl Malone has more personal accolades.

[West-Side]

Hakeem or Shaq.

Shaq was named one of the 50 greatest players in 1997... which is absolutely insane.

I'd give the edge to Hakeem because he was the one that won the two titles when Jordan first retired. He also won the MVP, 2x Finals MVP and 2x DPOTY.

Hakeem's peak was from 90' - 95'.
Shaq's was from 99' to 04'.

[Dr Hawk]

Hakeem Olajuwon

From 90 to 99:

RS: 23.9/11.6/3/1.8/3.5 blocks .51 FG%
PO: 26.2/11/3.8/1.6/3.3 .521 FG%

1993 DPOY
1994 DPOY,MVP, FMVP
1995 FMVP

[Fallen Angel]

Karl actually made 10 All-NBA 1st Teams and 9 All-Star selections from 90' to 99'. Hakeem was still clearly the better player.

Another example of when context matters.
Hakeem faced off against more competition at the center position than Karl did at PF; which is why Karl Malone has more personal accolades.
PFs don't have their own category for awards the way Centers do, they compete with SFs, too.

So Malone was battling with Scottie Pippen, Grant Hill, Dominique Wilkins, Chris Mullin, Glen Rice, Charles Barkley, Shawn Kemp, Dennis Rodman, Chris Webber, and Larry Johnson.

[West-Side]

PFs don't have their own category for awards the way Centers do, they compete with SFs, too.

So Malone was battling with Scottie Pippen, Grant Hill, Dominique Wilkins, Chris Mullin, Glen Rice, Charles Barkley, Shawn Kemp, Dennis Rodman, Chris Webber, and Larry Johnson.

Exactly, :oldlol: .
So it was more difficult for Hakeem to make 1st team every year when he was battling with Shaquille O'Neal. Who was way better than any of the players you mentioned.

Thanks for proving my point homie.
Not to mention guys like David Robinson, Patrick Ewing and Alonzo Mourning.
Only one is selected to 1st team.

:pimp:

[DonDadda59]

At the time it was generally accepted that scumbag Malone was the second best player in the league. History now deems it was the Dream. Makes sense.

Something similar might happen if Durant goes on a legendary run in the next few years.

[kennethgriffin]

inb4 someone says MJ.

:lol


one could easly argue that jordan wasnt the best player of the 90's if you go by ( no year 0 per decade argument. instead years 1-10, i.e. 1991-2000 )



and if you exclude team accomplishments due to the bulls being stacked unfairly. jordans toughest matchup was his team mate for god sakes. allstar and legend grant/rodman his 3rd wing? blah

then there was the paxsons and kerrs who literally won him 2 titles with game winning shots in pivotal game 6's

the rodman true fmvp year in 96 ( george karl agrees )

the pippen defensive stopper on magic johnson in 91

and the bulls in general were led by team defense. not 1 man scoring 30




so in the end if you really look at it


Jordan:

1991 - 31/6/5 ( 53% )
1992 - 30/6/6 ( 51% )
1993 - 32/6/5 ( 49% )
1994 - missed year
1995 - missed 85% of year
1996 - 30/6/4 ( 49% )
1997 - 29/5/4 ( 48% )
1998 - 28/5/3 ( 46% )
1999 - missed year
2000 - missed year


vs

Malone:


1991 - 29/12/3 ( 53% )
1992 - 28/11/3 ( 53% )
1993 - 27/11/4 ( 55% )
1994 - 25/12/4 ( 50% )
1995 - 27/11/4 ( 54% )
1996 - 26/10/4 ( 52% )
1997 - 27/10/5 ( 55% )
1998 - 27/10/4 ( 53% )
1999 - 24/9/4 ( 50% )
2000 - 26/10/4 ( 51% )






i for one am a believer that success defines a player. so jordan is the player of the 90's.... but for those of whom believe in efficiency/production/consistency/stats... you could easly argue malone was the top performer of the 90's

[Fallen Angel]

Hakeem easily had the better peak and overall career, but Malone was consistently great throughout the 90s. Hakeem started to fall off when the Rockets went full superteam mode.

[dubeta]

Scottie Pippen of course, 6 rings in the 90's, best playmaker and defender on all 6 championships

[Dr Hawk]

Scottie Pippen of course, 6 rings in the 90's, best playmaker and defender on all 6 championships

Mods

[dubeta]

Mods


What did I say wrong?

[riseagainst]

Scottie Pippen of course, 6 rings in the 90's, best playmaker and defender on all 6 championships

:lol

[kennethgriffin]

Mods

dubeta's problem is he tries to make people know hes trolling. because he thinks its cool to be a sh*t disturber instead of actually trying to argue both sides of the equation with honest objectivity


i gave an argument against jordan being the best player ( its not my way of thinking ) but its a clear and well thought out delivery of fact and reason


this is what makes me a solid poster and him a troll worth IP banning

[GrapeApe]

Scottie Pippen of course, 6 rings in the 90's, best playmaker and defender on all 6 championships

How many MVP's? FMVP's?

Also, were there 3 championships I'm unaware of? Jordan led the Bulls in total assists, assists per game, and assist % in the first 3-peat. Where are the other 3 championships where Pippen was the top playmaker?

[West-Side]

At the time it was generally accepted that scumbag Malone was the second best player in the league. History now deems it was the Dream. Makes sense.

Something similar might happen if Durant goes on a legendary run in the next few years.

Wrong.
No one ever considered Malone the 2nd best beside agenda driven Jordan stans. No one actually considered him better than Jordan, Shaquille, Robinson or Hakeem. He was respected for being a very good (and consistent) basketball player. He is a legend and a hall of famer, no doubt. I think the people who believed he was the 2nd best are those who simply didn't watch basketball in the 90's.

Sure, he had incredible consistency and longevity (in general) but he never had the impact that someone like Tim Duncan did from 98' to say 07'. He never had as much impact as Hakeem, Shaq or Robinson. I know those 3 didn't play at their peak from 90' to 99' but their peak was easily higher than Karl's and their peak also lasted at least six seasons during the 90's.

I'm not saying Karl doesn't have a case; I just can't pick him over someone like Hakeem.

Hakeem not only had a higher peak but he won two titles as the best player in the game at the time. He also won DPOTY, MVP and Finals MVP in the same season. He could have (and probably should have) won 5+ DPOTY awards during his career. Offensively, he also had a greater impact than Karl. I'm not sure Malone would have had as illustrious of career without John Stockton either.

I'm in my early 30's and I remember watching Hakeem & Karl play; I don't think a single soul alive considered Karl better from 90' to 96'. It wasn't until Utah played Chicago in two NBA finals that Karl started being appreciated more. It didn't mean he was better than Hakeem. People just respect his longevity and consistency as a great basketball player.

[Rocketswin2013]

Malone and Hakeem had virtually the exact opposite career circumstances and yet Hakeem had significantly more success.

An out-of-prime Hakeem in '97 was having a better postseason than Malone ever had. Heck, he even heavily outplayed him in the '97 WCF and just trashed the Jazz' frontcourt. If Stockton doesn't have the series of his life, he faces Jordan in the Finals.

Hakeem was at worst second-best player in the '97 playoffs up until the conference finals and probably second-best overall.

I don't think Malone was better than Hakeem.

[90sgoat]

Hakeem easily had the better peak and overall career, but Malone was consistently great throughout the 90s. Hakeem started to fall off when the Rockets went full superteam mode.

This is true. Hakeem was definitely the second best in the mid 90s by a wide margin. You could say Charles Barkley was considered second best in the early 90s until Hakeem won in 94. Then Malone took over around 96-98.

Sir Charles - 90-93
Hakeem - 94-95
Malone - 96-98

Sir Charles was a constant MVP runner up and MVP in 93. Barkley was a once in a lifetime player too. Malone as well. These guys are so good and would both be easily top 10 if Jordan had never played.

[90sgoat]

Wrong.
No one ever considered Malone the 2nd best beside agenda driven Jordan stans. No one actually considered him better than Jordan, Shaquille, Robinson or Hakeem. He was respected for being a very good (and consistent) basketball player. He is a legend and a hall of famer, no doubt. I think the people who believed he was the 2nd best are those who simply didn't watch basketball in the 90's.

Sure, he had incredible consistency and longevity (in general) but he never had the impact that someone like Tim Duncan did from 98' to say 07'. He never had as much impact as Hakeem, Shaq or Robinson. I know those 3 didn't play at their peak from 90' to 99' but their peak was easily higher than Karl's and their peak also lasted at least six seasons during the 90's.

I'm not saying Karl doesn't have a case; I just can't pick him over someone like Hakeem.

Hakeem not only had a higher peak but he won two titles as the best player in the game at the time. He also won DPOTY, MVP and Finals MVP in the same season. He could have (and probably should have) won 5+ DPOTY awards during his career. Offensively, he also had a greater impact than Karl. I'm not sure Malone would have had as illustrious of career without John Stockton either.

I'm in my early 30's and I remember watching Hakeem & Karl play; I don't think a single soul alive considered Karl better from 90' to 96'. It wasn't until Utah played Chicago in two NBA finals that Karl started being appreciated more. It didn't mean he was better than Hakeem. People just respect his longevity and consistency as a great basketball player.

Tell me how much you watched of the 90s?

Malone was for sure considered second best in 97 and 98, he was MVP!

Hakeem had a very high but short peak. Malone was a monster, year in and year out. Only lame ass Lebron fans try to downplay how amazing a player Malone was.

And has been said before. If Jordan doesn't play then Malone has 2 championships and 2 finals FMVPs and could very well go as high as 7-8 all time.

[AirFederer]

The Dream:

7 All-Stars
2 Championship
MVP
2 Finals MVP
2 Time DPOTY

No contest :cheers:

[Lebronxrings]

Pippen.

[West-Side]

Tell me how much you watched of the 90s?

Malone was for sure considered second best in 97 and 98, he was MVP!

Hakeem had a very high but short peak. Malone was a monster, year in and year out. Only lame ass Lebron fans try to downplay how amazing a player Malone was.

And has been said before. If Jordan doesn't play then Malone has 2 championships and 2 finals FMVPs and could very well go as high as 7-8 all time.

I'd agree, Malone was the 2nd best player in 97 & 98. :confusedshrug:
He was definitely not better than Hakeem Olajuwon in the 90's though.

His selections to the all-star team and 1st All-NBA might indicate it, until you actually place some context behind those accolades. He was quite easily the best PF of the 90's though.

[90sgoat]

I'd agree, Malone was the 2nd best player in 97 & 98. :confusedshrug:
He was definitely not better than Hakeem Olajuwon in the 90's though.

His selections to the all-star team and 1st All-NBA might indicate it, until you actually place some context behind those accolades. He was quite easily the best PF of the 90's though.

The problem is that the 90s really spanned two eras. The guys who dominated the earlys to mid 90s were all also 80s players such as Hakeem, Barkley, Jordan, Ewing in particular. Those guys dominated the early to mid 90s.

Then in the second half of the 90s, you get the new breed of players who go on to dominate the early 00s, Shaq, Webber, AI, Timmy, Reggie, Payton etc, but they're not good enough to win in the late 90s.

The only 80s guys with longevity in the late 90s are Jordan, Malone and Stockton.

Malone is definitely not a better power forward in the early 90s than Barkley.

Barkley is not only the best power forward, he is also consensus the second best player in the world from 1990 to 1993.

Malone has longevity over Barkley but peak wise Barkley comes out on top. Barkely doesn't last though.

Hakeem had a short prime and really doesn't do anything in the last part of the decade. If you look at the entire 90s span, then it has to be Malone. If you go merely by peak then Hakeem sure.

[DonDadda59]

Wrong.
No one ever considered Malone the 2nd best beside agenda driven Jordan stans. No one actually considered him better than Jordan, Shaquille, Robinson or Hakeem. He was respected for being a very good (and consistent) basketball player. He is a legend and a hall of famer, no doubt. I think the people who believed he was the 2nd best are those who simply didn't watch basketball in the 90's.

Sure, he had incredible consistency and longevity (in general) but he never had the impact that someone like Tim Duncan did from 98' to say 07'. He never had as much impact as Hakeem, Shaq or Robinson. I know those 3 didn't play at their peak from 90' to 99' but their peak was easily higher than Karl's and their peak also lasted at least six seasons during the 90's.

I'm not saying Karl doesn't have a case; I just can't pick him over someone like Hakeem.

Hakeem not only had a higher peak but he won two titles as the best player in the game at the time. He also won DPOTY, MVP and Finals MVP in the same season. He could have (and probably should have) won 5+ DPOTY awards during his career. Offensively, he also had a greater impact than Karl. I'm not sure Malone would have had as illustrious of career without John Stockton either.

I'm in my early 30's and I remember watching Hakeem & Karl play; I don't think a single soul alive considered Karl better from 90' to 96'. It wasn't until Utah played Chicago in two NBA finals that Karl started being appreciated more. It didn't mean he was better than Hakeem. People just respect his longevity and consistency as a great basketball player.

Hakeem was done as an elite player by '97. Malone was still winning MVPs by '99. The vast majority of the basketball watching World considered Malone to be the 2nd best player in the NBA and viewed Hakeem's peak accomplishments ('94-'95) as being a by-product of Jordan playing baseball for a bit. If Jordan stays those seasons and instead takes '96-'98 off, then Malone is the one with 2 rings and 2 finals MVPs and the Dream retires ringless and 0-3 in the finals for his career.

[G0ATbe]

Kobe #1. It's interchangeable between Pip/MJ for 2nd. I personally have to go with Pippen though.

[DonDadda59]

Kobe #1. It's interchangeable between Pip/MJ for 2nd. I'd personally would have to go with Pippen though.

Kobe in the 90s was a poor man's Jamal Crawford. Actually, that's an insult to Jamal and poor people everywhere.

[stalkerforlife]

Malone is the most underrated player of all time.

[Psileas]

It has to be Hakeem. As long as pretty much everyone puts him above Malone all-time without much thought, I doubt they do so because of what happened in the 80's.
Yes, Hakeem stopped being a superstar in '98, but then again, most would consider his peak years to have more added value than the couple of extra years Malone had as a superstar. After all, Jordan technically missed even more superstar seasons in the 90's, but this doesn't matter, not so much because of what people assume would happen if he didn't miss these 2.8 seasons, but because of what actually happened in the ones he didn't miss.
Hakeem was more versatile than Malone in the 90's. He was a better playoff performer and not really a worse regular season one. He wasn't accused anywhere near as much as Malone for losing some of the series he did. He beat half the Dream Team plus Shaq within 2 seasons. His playoff record vs Malone is 2-2 and one may argue their individual battle went 3-1 in Olajuwon's favor, with Malone winning in the season Hakeem started fading hard from superstardom.

[West-Side]

The problem is that the 90s really spanned two eras. The guys who dominated the earlys to mid 90s were all also 80s players such as Hakeem, Barkley, Jordan, Ewing in particular. Those guys dominated the early to mid 90s.

Then in the second half of the 90s, you get the new breed of players who go on to dominate the early 00s, Shaq, Webber, AI, Timmy, Reggie, Payton etc, but they're not good enough to win in the late 90s.

The only 80s guys with longevity in the late 90s are Jordan, Malone and Stockton.

Malone is definitely not a better power forward in the early 90s than Barkley.

Barkley is not only the best power forward, he is also consensus the second best player in the world from 1990 to 1993.

Malone has longevity over Barkley but peak wise Barkley comes out on top. Barkely doesn't last though.

Hakeem had a short prime and really doesn't do anything in the last part of the decade. If you look at the entire 90s span, then it has to be Malone. If you go merely by peak then Hakeem sure.

34 year old Hakeem destroying Malone in the 97' playoffs.

Hakeem: 27.2 PPG, 9.3 RPG, 3.8 APG, 2.0 SPG, 3.3 BPG on 60%
Malone: 23.5 PPG, 11.5 RPG, 3.2 APG, 1.3 SPG, 1.2 BPG on 45%

But yeah, Hakeem wasn't anything special in the late 90's.
You're basically saying Karl is the 2nd best because from 90' to 99' he was consistently a great player; while Hakeem diminished a little in 98' & 99'. Sure you can say Malone was a more consistent player in the 90's but there's no way there's a single GM with a brain that would take Malone over Hakeem on their team from 90' to 99'.

[T_L_P]

Hakeem, then Karl.

[90sgoat]

34 year old Hakeem destroying Malone in the 97' playoffs.

Hakeem: 27.2 PPG, 9.3 RPG, 3.8 APG, 2.0 SPG, 3.3 BPG on 60%
Malone: 23.5 PPG, 11.5 RPG, 3.2 APG, 1.3 SPG, 1.2 BPG on 45%

But yeah, Hakeem wasn't anything special in the late 90's.
You're basically saying Karl is the 2nd best because from 90' to 99' he was consistently a great player; while Hakeem diminished a little in 98' & 99'. Sure you can say Malone was a more consistent player in the 90's but there's no way there's a single GM with a brain that would take Malone over Hakeem on their team from 90' to 99'.

Without MJ, Hakeem gets two and Malone gets two.

It's not that clear cut.

Much is made of Hakeems lack of support, people conviniently forgetting winning 2nd with a top 5 all time shooting guard in Drexler.

Malone played with some equally poor teams and the teams he was on that swept Shaq and beat Malone had one top 10 player and really nothing else.

Ostertag
Byron Russel
Carr
Hornacek

Nobodies, completely replaceable. Hornacek can be swapped with Majerle for example. Ostertag is just a 7 foot stiff, Carr old as dirt. Byron Russel is the Mario Elie of the Jazz, only known for getting ethered by MJ.

Stockton and Malone might be the most productive duo of all time after MJ+Pippen.

[Cold soul]

Hakeem with Shaq being 3rd.

[3ball]

.
I just sent this email to the author of the article:


Subject: Are your opinions supported by the facts?

Dear Tom Ziller,

I enjoyed your article regarding Pippen's ranking in the 90's. Unfortunately, the facts are contrary to the opinions you wrote. First of all, we know for a fact that MJ guarded Magic Johnson in the 1991 Finals for 14 of the 20 quarters (70%), to Pippen's 6 of 20 quarters (30%).

Specifically, Pippen guarded Magic for the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th quarters of Game 2, the 2nd and 3rd quarters of Game 3, the last 4 minutes of Game 4, and none in Games 1 or 5. That's 6 quarters out of 20. MJ guarded Magic the rest of the time. Here are all 5 games in there entirety:

Game 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ddik5aZ02uA
Game 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMTY0xJSwRY
Game 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzLssE0Vcm4
Game 4: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFcMrcXfCcU
Game 5: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9B9654H0Cc

MJ's status as a shooting guard meant he routinely guarded Isiah Thomas, Gary Payton, Tim Hardaway, John Stockton, Rod Strickland, Kevin Johnson and all the best point guards in the league (I recommend the "Nobody Touches Jordan" youtube site, which shows that MJ was frequently the primary defender on these point guards and locked them all down):

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLl0ny9_3DLnFmdGrXIYboWxY85qDJEjUY

As a shooting guard, it wasn't a novelty for MJ to guard a point guard - but it was for Pippen, which is why people remember the very rare times Pippen guarded a point guard, like the 1998 Eastern Conference Finals when he guarded the slowest point guard of all time, Mark Jackson. People give Pippen props for this, when MJ guarded point guards as a STANDARD. The reality is that Pippen almost always guarded the other team's SF, while the primary defender was actually Jordan - he guarded the other team's PG or SG, whoever was better... MJ's defense is simply forgotten by nascent fans who are understandably enamored with his goat offense. MJ's offense is all people remember - everything else is a blur.

Also, MJ was the far better passer - according to basketball-reference.com, MJ assisted on 31.3% of his teammates shots in the 1991-1993 playoffs (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html#1991-1993-sum:playoffs_advanced), compared to 23.3% for Pippen... In the 1996-1998 playoffs, MJ assisted on 22.3% of his teammates buckets, compared to 22.0% for Pippen... In addition to assisting on a higher percentage of teammate buckets, MJ scored 50-120% more, depending on the year or series.. MJ handled the ball far more than Pippen, but no one notices, because that's standard for a SG.. Otoh, it was a novelty for "point forward" Pippen, and therefore more noticed.

As you can see, MJ's goat offense simply blinds fans from the reality that he was a superior defender and passer to Pippen... Like Shaq said, Pippen is vastly overrated - I believe this happens because people get tired of MJ's domination and subconsciously play devil's advocate... But don't overrate Pippen - in the 1996-1998 playoffs, Pippen averaged 17 ppg, 7 rpg, 5 apg on 40.8% shooting, including 15 ppg on 34% in 1996 Finals (worst-ever for a 2nd option) and 15 ppg on 41% shooting in 1998 Finals (there are no typos in these stats).. No one that puts up those numbers is the 2nd best player of a decade, or anywhere near.. I'm sorry... Nonetheless, I enjoyed the article and enjoy many of your other articles as well.

Regards,
XXXXXXXXX (aka "3ball")

[Round Mound]

Hakeem, then 3rd would be Suns and Early Sixers Barkley.

[G0ATbe]

The disrespect for Pippen is unreal. I grew up watching Jordan and was and still am a huge fan. But I always knew Jordan was simply an empty stat guy soaking up all the glory while Pippen was the real motor of the Chicago Bulls. Which explains why Jordan couldn't do shit before and after Pippen.

Pippen > Jordan. More impact. Better winner.

[jbryan1984]

Hakeem would have my vote with Malone right behind.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Scottie Pippen was the 2nd-best player of the '90s

http://www.sbnation.com/2015/9/9/9290999/nba-90s-scottie-pippen-michael-jordan

[GrapeApe]

http://www.sbnation.com/2015/9/9/9290999/nba-90s-scottie-pippen-michael-jordan

From the article:

"In fact, it's likely Pippen was better than Jordan in every category other than scoring/shooting."

:biggums:

[jayfan]

Here's how I interpret the question: When at his best, who was the best/2nd best player of the 90's?

1. MJ
2. Hakeem





3. Barkley
4. Malone

[kennethgriffin]

Hakeem, then 3rd would be Suns and Early Sixers Barkley.



:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

shaqs 90's > barkleys


#1 jordan
#2 Hakeem
#3 Malone
#4 Shaq
#5 barkley/ewing/stockton etc..

[The_Pharcyde]

one could easly argue that jordan wasnt the best player of the 90's if you go by ( no year 0 per decade argument. instead years 1-10, i.e. 1991-2000 )



and if you exclude team accomplishments due to the bulls being stacked unfairly. jordans toughest matchup was his team mate for god sakes. allstar and legend grant/rodman his 3rd wing? blah

then there was the paxsons and kerrs who literally won him 2 titles with game winning shots in pivotal game 6's

the rodman true fmvp year in 96 ( george karl agrees )

the pippen defensive stopper on magic johnson in 91

and the bulls in general were led by team defense. not 1 man scoring 30




so in the end if you really look at it


Jordan:

1991 - 31/6/5 ( 53% )
1992 - 30/6/6 ( 51% )
1993 - 32/6/5 ( 49% )
1994 - missed year
1995 - missed 85% of year
1996 - 30/6/4 ( 49% )
1997 - 29/5/4 ( 48% )
1998 - 28/5/3 ( 46% )
1999 - missed year
2000 - missed year


vs

Malone:


1991 - 29/12/3 ( 53% )
1992 - 28/11/3 ( 53% )
1993 - 27/11/4 ( 55% )
1994 - 25/12/4 ( 50% )
1995 - 27/11/4 ( 54% )
1996 - 26/10/4 ( 52% )
1997 - 27/10/5 ( 55% )
1998 - 27/10/4 ( 53% )
1999 - 24/9/4 ( 50% )
2000 - 26/10/4 ( 51% )






i for one am a believer that success defines a player. so jordan is the player of the 90's.... but for those of whom believe in efficiency/production/consistency/stats... you could easly argue malone was the top performer of the 90's


wow.......ive seen it all

malone>jordan

[bizil]

When MJ first retired, I think Barkley, Robinson, Mailman, Ewing, and Dream all could have had a shot at #2 GOAT of the 90's. It would likely come down to rings. So I gotta roll with the Dream. Peak and GOAT wise, he was the 2nd best player of the 90's. His game peaked in the 90's while he was in his early 30's. Peak Hakeem was the best blend of skill, power, and athletic ability of all time for centers. Shaq was the most physically dominant. While Wilt and Kareem were the most prolific scorers.

[Doctor K]

I just wonder what the thread's responses would've been if Jordan retired in 97 and 98 instead of 94 and 95....

[I<3NBA]

Rodman.

[Papaya Petee]

This is really really difficult. And I'm not even sure this is the correct order. You can argue some of these players over each other and you could convince me.

1.) Hakeem
2.) Malone
3.) Barkley
4.) Shaq
5.) D-Rob
6.) Drexler
7.) Ewing
8.) Payton
9.) Pippen
10.) Stockton

Honorable Mentions - Miller, Kemp, Alonzo, Hardaway, Duncan, Mullin, Kevin Johnson, Iverson.

[Naero]

Kobe #1. It's interchangeable between Pip/MJ for 2nd. I personally have to go with Pippen though.

:roll:

On-topic: easily Hakeem in terms of individual accomplishments.

The only other player of the decade to win an MVP and lead his team to a championship, two-time DPoY (only player aside from Michael Jordan in the '80s to pair that and an MVP in the same season), and a historical playoffs run in 1996.

The 90s have cemented Hakeem as the third-best center of all time to me (backseat to Kareem and Wilt), and he capitalized the best during the years of retirement for the GOAT in Michael Jordan.

As great as Shaq was since the outset of his career's debut, he did not start to take home the best hardware until the bimillennial era of the NBA.

[Round Mound]

1-MJ
2-Hakeem
3-Barkley
4-Malone
5-Shaq
6-Robinson
7-Ewing
8-Pippen
9-Payton
10-Stockton

[scandisk_]

1. Hakeem
2. Mailman or Chuck
3. Shaq
4. Admiral
5. Pip, Stock or Ewing

FACTS :pimp:

10. emjay is ghey

[kennethgriffin]

1-MJ
2-Hakeem
3-Barkley
4-Malone
5-Shaq
6-Robinson
7-Ewing
8-Pippen
9-Payton
10-Stockton

malone was mvp level the entire decade.. barkley was for only half

jesus chris youre a f*cking idiot


just stop

:roll:

[Timmy D for MVP]

Hakeem is the 2nd greatest from the 90's. For a time it looked like it'd be Barkley but those mid decade titles, and him taking to another level put Hakeem on top.

[Round Mound]

malone was mvp level the entire decade.. barkley was for only half

jesus chris youre a f*cking idiot


just stop

:roll:

:no: The Level of Play of Barkley in the 1st half of the decade was WAY HIGHER than Stockton-To-Malone in the whole decade. Period!

[kennethgriffin]

:no: The Level of Play of Barkley in the 1st half of the decade was WAY HIGHER than Stockton-To-Malone. Period!

this is why nobody likes you... the thread clearly states "Who was the 2nd Greatest Player of the 90s?"


not


"who had the 2nd best season of the 90s"

or

"who had the highest peak of the 90s"


and even if it was


then its

#1 Jordan 1993 ( 32/7/5/3 - with elite defense )
#2 hakeem 1994 ( 27/12/4 - with elite defense )
#3 Robinson 1995 ( 30/11/5 - with elite defense )
#4 malone 1997 ( 27/10/5 - with elite defense )
#5 Shaq 1995 ( 29/11/3 - with great defense )


and theres probly others i'd consider too before lazy fat butt barkley and his sh*t defensive skills ( or lack there of )

[Round Mound]

this is why nobody likes you... the thread clearly states "Who was the 2nd Greatest Player of the 90s?"


not


"who had the 2nd best season of the 90s"

or

"who had the highest peak of the 90s"


and even if it was


then its

#1 Jordan 1993 ( 32/7/5/3 - with elite defense )
#2 hakeem 1994 ( 27/12/4 - with elite defense )
#3 Robinson 1995 ( 30/11/5 - with elite defense )
#4 malone 1997 ( 27/10/5 - with elite defense )
#5 Shaq 1995 ( 29/11/3 - with great defense )


and theres probly others i'd consider too before lazy fat butt barkley and his sh*t defensive skills ( or lack there of )

I clearly pointed out to who was the 2nd best player of the 90s and it was Hakeem and he also had a drop off in the next half of dacade same with Barkley (the third best player of the 90s) . The level that a healthy Barkley and Hakeem played from 1990 to 1995 ws WAY HIGHER than Stockton-To-Malone`s Co- Parasitical Sloan System. NUFF Said! Period!

[West-Side]

This is really really difficult. And I'm not even sure this is the correct order. You can argue some of these players over each other and you could convince me.

1.) Hakeem
2.) Malone
3.) Barkley
4.) Shaq
5.) D-Rob
6.) Drexler
7.) Ewing
8.) Payton
9.) Pippen
10.) Stockton

Honorable Mentions - Miller, Kemp, Alonzo, Hardaway, Duncan, Mullin, Kevin Johnson, Iverson.

:oldlol: @ Duncan. He played like 1 year in the 90's.

1. Hakeem
2. Malone
3. Shaq
4. Barkley
5. Robinson
6. Pippen
7. Ewing
8. Stockton
9. Payton
10. Rodman

That's how I'd rank the 90's.

[West-Side]

Petee, I can't believe you actually ranked Drexler above Pippen.
Please eloborate.

I was even considering putting Pip above Robinson; Scottie is so insanely underrated.

[ClipperRevival]

Gotta go with Hakeem for his 2 titles.

But Malone was close because he was clearly the most consistent superstar from start to finish in the 1990's.