greatest laker of all time - magic johnson [Archive] - Message Board Basketball Forum

swagga

09-10-2015, 07:57 AM

I see some people calling kobe the goat laker but magic really gave them much more:
- 9 finals (kobe has 7)
- 5 rings (kobe has 5 too :applause: )
- 3 FMVPs (kobe has 2)
- 3 MVPs (kobe has 1, more of a career achievement mvp, cough cp3 cough)
- showtime (kobe has 05/06 & the 81 game)
- definition of a team player (kobe ran shaq AND howard and with them some 2-3 rings out of town)
- brought a golden era to the nba with bird (kobe has colorado i guess?)

how can any so called laker fan still pick kobe as the greatest laker? If anybody has a rational point, please reply.

Marchesk

09-10-2015, 07:59 AM

I have Wilt as greatest Laker :confusedshrug:

KG215

09-10-2015, 08:05 AM

I have Wilt as greatest Laker :confusedshrug:
Wilt played five seasons for the Lakers on the back end of his prime and/or past his prime. Not that he wasn't great with them, because he was, but when you talk about the greatest player for a specific franchise, a player who spent the majority of his career elsewhere and only five seasons with that specific franchise really shouldn't be considered.

I'd say based on time spent playing for the Lakers along with achievements/success, Magic, Kobe, Kareem, West, Shaq, and probably Baylor have a better argument than Wilt in the "Greatest Laker of All-Time" conversation.

I'd take Wilt over a few of those players generally speaking all-time, but it's a totally different conversation when it comes to best Laker of all-time.

Marchesk

09-10-2015, 08:07 AM

Wilt played five seasons for the Lakers on the back end of his prime and/or past his prime. Not that he wasn't great with them, because he was, but when you talk about the greatest player for a specific franchise, a player who spent the majority of his career elsewhere and only five seasons with that specific franchise really shouldn't be considered.

I know, the context was he accused me of being a Laz alt in a previous thread.

Now do Kareem or Shaq get consideration, or did they not play enough seasons in LA?

ArbitraryWater

09-10-2015, 08:10 AM

I have Wilt as greatest Laker :confusedshrug:

that makes zero sense

KG215

09-10-2015, 08:10 AM

I know, the context was he accused me of being a Laz alt in a previous thread.

Now do Kareem or Shaq get consideration, or did they not play enough seasons in LA?
Yeah, I just saw that thread ha. And I might give them a little more weight in the "GOAT Laker" conversation than Wilt, but it's subjective. I think it probably does come down to just Magic or Kobe.

Quickening

09-10-2015, 08:11 AM

Prisoners of the moment, 5 years post retirement and Kobe won't be classed as the GOAT laker.

Marchesk

09-10-2015, 08:12 AM

that makes zero sense

This is ISH, does it need to make sense?

Marchesk

09-10-2015, 08:13 AM

Serious response, just going off total career accomplishments as Lakers:

Magic or Kobe
Mikan (?)
West
Baylor
Kareem or Shaq

Edit: How does one rank Mikan anyway?

ralph_i_el

09-10-2015, 08:14 AM

Don't question Kobe Stan's logic, it doesn't exist.

ArbitraryWater

09-10-2015, 08:14 AM

This is ISH, does it need to make sense?

true

DMV2

09-10-2015, 08:19 AM

Dr Hawk

09-10-2015, 08:33 AM

swagga

09-10-2015, 08:35 AM

I know, the context was he accused me of being a Laz alt in a previous thread.

Now do Kareem or Shaq get consideration, or did they not play enough seasons in LA?

you soft son.

Gileraracer

09-10-2015, 09:04 AM

Best Lakers:

1Magic
2Bean
3Kareem

KembaWalker

09-10-2015, 09:30 AM

It's funny that y'all think it's only some Lakers fans giving him this label

Lakers legend Jerry West summed up his feelings about Kobe, via USA Today:

“WHAT HE HAS ACCOMPLISHED WITH THIS TEAM, I DON’T THINK THERE’S ANY QUESTION IN MY MIND AT THIS POINT IN TIME – BECAUSE OF HIM BEING WITH THIS TEAM FOR HIS WHOLE CAREER – THAT HE HAS BEEN THE GREATEST LAKER PLAYER.”

Kidding aside, West’s sentiments echoed those of Magic Johnson, who called Kobe the greatest Laker ever Wednesday night on ESPN.

Right off the bat, O’Neal introduced Bryant as “the greatest Laker ever.” So that’s pretty high praise

......such Kobe stans

Psileas

09-10-2015, 09:32 AM

I have Wilt as greatest Laker :confusedshrug:

Ηe's the greatest to have ever worn the Lakers' jersey, but played too little and past his prime to be the greatest Laker. He is the greatest Warrior and Sixer, however, even though he didn't play for lots of seasons in either - too damn dominant not to be.

swagga

09-10-2015, 09:59 AM

Ηe's the greatest to have ever worn the Lakers' jersey, but played too little and past his prime to be the greatest Laker. He is the greatest Warrior and Sixer, however, even though he didn't play for lots of seasons in either - too damn dominant not to be.

how can the greatest player to wear a Lakers jersey win only 2 rings?
Didn't know 20k counts so much to GOATness, but I guess you can put it as an "ambassador of sport" achievement.
you learn something new everyday I guess :confusedshrug:

Psileas

09-10-2015, 10:19 AM

how can the greatest player to wear a Lakers jersey win only 2 rings?

By not playing in good enough teams.

Didn't know 20k counts so much to GOATness, but I guess you can put it as an "ambassador of sport" achievement.
you learn something new everyday I guess

It does and everyone who knows a lick of basketball knows it. It's not even 20,000, it's 23,924.

swagga

09-10-2015, 11:07 AM

By not playing in good enough teams.

He couldn't win with 3 other HOFs my man, it's not like he was playing with delladova and jr smith. Shouldn't that be enough for a 50ppg 25 rpg player most dominant ever player?

senelcoolidge

09-10-2015, 11:18 AM

George Mikan is the greatest Laker ever. I would give it to Wilt, but he only played there 5 seasons and at the end of his career which he was still impressive.
http://www.midwestsportsfans.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/george-mikan.jpg

Magic 32

09-10-2015, 11:20 AM

more of a career achievement mvp, cough cp3 cough

http://independentskies.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/i.chzbgr-1.jpg

Magic 32

09-10-2015, 11:21 AM

Top 5

1. Magic
2. Kobe
3. Kareem
4. Shaq
5. West.

Psileas

09-10-2015, 11:27 AM

He couldn't win with 3 other HOFs my man, it's not like he was playing with delladova and jr smith. Shouldn't that be enough for a 50ppg 25 rpg player most dominant ever player?

Μagic and Kareem are both considered top 5 GOATs and they have lost with 3 other HOFers as well (including Magic for Kareem and Kareem for Magic). At times, without even getting to the Finals, losing to teams with bigger r.season win deficits compared to any of Wilt's losses. So have Shaq and Kobe. Having done the same doesn't separate Wilt from this group.

HOoopCityJones

09-10-2015, 11:34 AM

It's funny that y'all think it's only some Lakers fans giving him this label

......such Kobe stans

Ether

West-Side

09-10-2015, 11:40 AM

Calling Kobe the greatest Laker is equivalent to saying Kobe is better than Magic on the all-time list, isn't it? .

I don't think anybody thinks Kobe is better than Magic or remotely close. Non Kobetards, of course.

Kobe doesn't have to be the greater player to be considered the better Laker. In this particular discussion; longevity counts for a lot.

Same reason why Magic is a greater Laker than Kareem or Wilt; because he has longevity on his side.

AirFederer

09-10-2015, 12:04 PM

Yep it's Magic. I strongly consider putting him as #2 on my GOAT list.:applause:

SOD 21

09-10-2015, 12:29 PM

I rank Kobe as the second greatest Laker of all-time behind the great Magic Johnson and probably most objective fans would say the same.

Mikan played in the early days of the league when no one saw him play, never played in Los Angeles and the overall quality play was inferior; Wilt can't be considered because it was towards the end of his prime and not for enough years; KAJ spent too many years in Milwaukee, although he did accomplish quite a bit with his time in Los Angeles; Jerry West and Elgin Baylor were simply surpassed by the quality of play by Magic Johnson and Kobe Bryant; and Shaq has the dominance but he simply doesn't have the longevity with the franchise.

The comments by Jerry west, Magic Johnson and Shaquille O'Neal about Kobe does give me pause to reconsider, but ultimately not enough to have Kobe placed first ahead of Magic.

sportjames23

09-10-2015, 04:08 PM

Waiting for kenniff to see this thread. :oldlol:

HOoopCityJones

09-10-2015, 04:23 PM

Magic isn't THAT much better than Kobe. He's better at passing and rebounding.

Kobe's a better scorer and defender. I think Kobe is the Goat Laker though.

20 years with one franchise playing at a relatively high level shouldn't be scoffed at.

Jlamb47

09-10-2015, 04:29 PM

1. Kobe
2. Magic
3.Kareem/Shaq

Baby Arm Johnso

09-11-2015, 02:13 AM

I think James Worthy deserves to be in this conversation. Magic's accolades would be on par with Kobe if he didn't have a guy like James Worthy who ALWAYS showed up for a playoff game

kennethgriffin

09-11-2015, 02:37 AM

kobe = better finals record
kobe = same rings
kobe = won all 5 with only 1 HOFer at a time ( 2 without a legendary sidekick )
magic = won all 5 with 4-5 other HOFers at a time ( all 5 with 2-3 legendary teammates )
magic = said kobe is the goat laker
kobe = 10 times better at defense
kobe = holds 90% of the lakers franchise records
kobe = more 1st team all nbas
kobe = twice as many teams with 50+ wins beatin in the playoffs
kobe = played during the wests toughest era
magic = played during the wests weakest era
shaq = said kobe is the goat laker
west = said kobe is the goat laker
magic = literally won all 5 titles with arguably the greatest player of all time kareem abdul jabbar
kobe = infinitely more popular world wide, a god in china
kobe = exponentially more valuable in terms of revenue
kobe = by the time hes retired will have played almost double the amount of time magic did

the goat laker is kobe by a f*cking landslide

all magic has over kobe is 2 more espn trophies

Naero

09-11-2015, 02:53 AM

I'm interested to see what arguments some of the more delusionistic Kobe stans bring to the table to contend that Kobe outranks Magic Johnson.

Kobe's most vaunted accomplishment is his five rings, which Magic Johnson has tied, despite that he out-accomplished his Finals MVPs with one more in his trophy room than the 5-time-champion Shooting Guard.

Kobe's only impactual (yes, I'm inventing a word) upsides are his scoring effectivity and his peak-level defense; aside from that, it's not even close.

My top-ten Lakers of all time based on their stint with the purple and gold:

1. Magic Johnson.
2. Kareem. Would rank him above Magic Johnson if my touchstone was the totality of his career, but it's based on Lakers-specific contributions. Half of his MVPs, Finals MVPs and peak years predated his changeover to the Lakers.
3. Shaquille O'Neal.
4. Kobe Bryant.
5. Jerry West.
6. Wilt Chamberlain. Similar paradigmatic reasoning for under-ranking him as Kareem; he only donned purple and gold for the last-five seasons of his career

kennethgriffin

09-11-2015, 02:57 AM

[QUOTE=Naero]I'm interested to see what arguments some of the more delusionistic Kobe stans bring to the table to contend that Kobe outranks Magic Johnson.

Kobe's most vaunted accomplishment is his five rings, which Magic Johnson has tied, despite that he out-accomplished his Finals MVPs with one more in his trophy room than the 5-time-champion Shooting Guard.

Kobe's only impactual (yes, I'm inventing a word) upsides are his scoring effectivity and his peak-level defense; aside from that, it's not even close.

My top-ten Lakers of all time based on their stint with the purple and gold:

1. Magic Johnson.
2. Kareem. Would rank him above Magic Johnson if my touchstone was the totality of his career, but it's based on Lakers-specific contributions. Half of his MVPs, Finals MVPs and peak years predated his changeover to the Lakers.
3. Shaquille O'Neal.
4. Kobe Bryant.
5. Jerry West.
6. Wilt Chamberlain. Similar paradigmatic reasoning for under-ranking him as Kareem; he only donned purple and gold for the last-five seasons of his career

Naero

09-11-2015, 03:07 AM

http://illiteratesports.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/stephen-a-smith-doesnt-believe-you-face.jpg

Much more efficient scorer, much more tremendous of a peak, led the Lakers to a three-peat (the first one with pre-prime Kobe, I might add) with three of the most dominant finals performances of all time, and he was the greatest two-way player in the league since Michael Jordan until Kobe surpassed him in 2002-03.

Aside from longevity and more All-NBA selections, what substantive argument does Kobe have for out-accomplishing Shaq? :confusedshrug:

L.A. Jazz

09-11-2015, 05:25 AM

For me, Magic is the greatest Laker of all-time.
Second is Kobe
Third is Jerry West.

But Kobe is on the same level as Magic, both being top 10 Players of alltime.

talking Shaq:
Magic, West, Kobe were there the whole time. AND for me "Shaq always was Shaq, not Lakers' Shaq". His brand is way more important to him than the Lakers, which was clear to everyone all the time.

LAZERUSS

09-11-2015, 05:36 AM

Ηe's the greatest to have ever worn the Lakers' jersey, but played too little and past his prime to be the greatest Laker. He is the greatest Warrior and Sixer, however, even though he didn't play for lots of seasons in either - too damn dominant not to be.

One thing is for certain, though. No other player in the history of the NBA dominated the Lakers more than a prime Chamberlain did.

Again, had Wilt faced the Lakers in any of his nine seasons in the league from '60 thru '68, and he likely would own at least some, (if not a vast majority), playoff and perhaps Finals, scoring records (and perhaps FG% records, as well, since Russell shot .702 against LA in '65.)

And once again, in Wilt's regular seasons, he was facing LA between 7 to 12 games in each season, with an average of about 10.

Also keep in mind that the Lakers were in the Western Conference, and Wilt only had two seasons in the Western Conference from '60 thru '68, and in one of those, his team was so bad, that he didn't make the playoffs, despite a 44.8 ppg season on .528 shooting.

Ok, here we go:

'59-60:

Against the entire NBA that season: 37.6 ppg on a .461 FG%

Against the Lakers in 9 H2H's: 36.8 ppg on a .430 FG%

High games of 41, 41, 41, 45, and 52.

'60-61:

Against the entire NBA: 38.4 ppg on a .509 FG%

Against the Lakers in 10 H2H's: 40.1 ppg on a .506 FG%

High games were 41, 41, 43, 44, 46, and 56 points.

'61-62:

Against the entire NBA: 50.4 ppg on a .506 FG%

Against LA in 9 H2H games: 51.6 ppg on a .503 FG%

High games of 48, 56, 57, 60, 60, and 78 (with 43 rebounds.)

'62-63: Against the entire NBA: 44.8 ppg on a .528 FG%

Against LA in 12 H2Hs: 48.6 ppg on a .541 FG%

High games of 40, 40, 42, 53, 63, and 72 points.

'63-64: Against the entire NBA: 36.9 ppg on a .524 FG%

Against LA in 12 H2Hs: 44.3 ppg on a .484 FG%

High games of 40, 41, 47, 49, 50, 55, and 59 points.

'64-65: Against the entire NBA: 34.7 ppg on a .510 FG%

Against LA in 8 H2Hs: 29.9 ppg on a .476 FG%

High games of 40, 40, and 41 points.

'65-66: Against the entire NBA: 33.5 ppg on a .540 FG%

Against LA in 10 H2Hs: 40.8 ppg on a .559 FG%

High games of 42, 49, 53, and 65 points.

'66-67: Against the entire NBA: 24.1 ppg on a .683 FG%

Against LA in 9 H2Hs: 26.4 ppg on a .759 FG%

High games of 32, 37, and 39 points.

'67-68: Against the entire NBA: 24.3 ppg on a .595 FG%

Against LA in 7 H2Hs: 28.1 ppg on a .638 FG%

High games of 31, 32, 35, and 53 points.

Overall, in those 86 games:

40 Point Games: 42

50 Point Games: 19

60 Point Games: 7

70 Point Games: 2

High game of 78 points.

On can only wonder how many playoff (and Finals') scoring records Chamberlain would own had he had the good fortune to have faced the Lakers in his post-season career.

As for GOAT Laker...

Magic, and by a MILE.

Psileas

09-11-2015, 09:39 AM

I think James Worthy deserves to be in this conversation. Magic's accolades would be on par with Kobe if he didn't have a guy like James Worthy who ALWAYS showed up for a playoff game

Not directly comparing them, but Kobe's accolades would be on par with Wade if he didn't have Gasol next to him, as well.

Pointguard

09-11-2015, 11:10 AM

Kobe wasn't even the best player or greatest Laker for a majority of his rings. The conversation should end there.

Internal feuds that he was at the center of caused the Lakers at least two rings and three finals trips.

How does he not win with the most dominant player in the game when no other prominent player had another solid top 15 player..

Chased away future franchise players in embarrassing fashion. Stared down coaches only to further humiliate the team with the next coach.

Magic was the best team player ever. Was a contender every year and brought showtime to LA. Improved the brand and had it so that it was attractive to future players. He hiked players wages by his contract and got them outside endorsements like crazy. Played in a far greater era than Kobe.

Not really even close.

ArbitraryWater

09-11-2015, 11:26 AM

Shaq > Kobe as a laker.

Brought more chips, had more GOAT seasons, as far as elite seasons:

Shaq: 9 (1996-2004),
Kobe: 7 (2001, 2003, 2006-2010)

Cold soul

09-11-2015, 08:09 PM

Shaq > Kobe as a laker.

Brought more chips, had more GOAT seasons, as far as elite seasons:

Shaq: 9 (1996-2004),
Kobe: 7 (2001, 2003, 2006-2010)

Kobe was good in 02 especially in playoffs.

HOoopCityJones

09-11-2015, 08:53 PM

TheMarkMadsen

09-11-2015, 09:05 PM

Kobe was good in 02 especially in playoffs.

he doesn't know what he's talking about pre 2011..

just ignore him..

TheMarkMadsen

09-11-2015, 09:07 PM

i find that pretty funny how Kobe gets hated on for playing with Pau..

but yall mother****ers are silent as hell when it comes to bringing up KAJ, Worthy and that incredibly stacked Laker team of the 80's. Not to mention the pathetic conference they played in..

Poochymama

09-11-2015, 09:08 PM

Learn to count sweety. Kobe's been to the Finals a total of Seven times, in that span he's been the best player on the floor in Four of those Finals to Shaq's three.

No matter how you slice it Kobe was better than Shaq by 04 , arguably 03.

He said "rings" not "finals". Kobe has gotten a ring 5 times, and 3 of those 5 times(2000, 2001, 2002) he was not the best player on his team, so what Pointguard said is true: "Kobe wasn't even the best player or greatest Laker for a majority of his rings". Majority in this case requires at least 3 rings in which he was his teams best player, and he only has 2(2009, 2010).

If we're talking finals and not rings, Shaq was the best 2000,2001, 2002, 2004 and Kobe was the best 2008, 2009, 2010

TheMarkMadsen

09-11-2015, 09:12 PM

Not directly comparing them, but Kobe's accolades would be on par with Wade if he didn't have Gasol next to him, as well.

yeah lets compare Gasol and Odom to FMVP James Worthy and top 2 GOAT KAJ..

not to mention arguably the best defensive wing of the 80's in Cooper..

in 87 alone Magic was playing with the DPOY, an all star center, an all star small forward and a 17ppg shooting guard

HOLY SHIT :oldlol:

but nah man.. Pau Gasol... can't argue against that

:oldlol:

HOoopCityJones

09-11-2015, 09:17 PM

He said "rings" not "finals". Kobe has gotten a ring 5 times, and 3 of those 5 times(2000, 2001, 2002) he was not the best player on his team, so what Pointguard said is true: "Kobe wasn't even the best player or greatest Laker for a majority of his rings". Majority in this case requires at least 3 rings in which he was his teams best player, and he only has 2(2009, 2010).

If we're talking finals and not rings, Shaq was the best 2000,2001, 2002, 2004 and Kobe was the best 2008, 2009, 2010

Like I said Kobe was better than Shaq by 04. :confusedshrug:

ArbitraryWater

09-11-2015, 09:17 PM

Kobe was good in 02 especially in playoffs.

:kobe:

Besides 2001 Kobe was shooting in the low 40's every year around until 2006 :lol

TheMarkMadsen

09-11-2015, 09:20 PM

:kobe:

Besides 2001 Kobe was shooting in the low 40's every year around until 2006 :lol

99 = 47%

00 = 46%

01 = 46%

02 = 47%

03 = 45%

04 = 44%

TheMarkMadsen

09-11-2015, 09:23 PM

bases his argument on FG%

still calls lebrons 2015 playoff run where he shots 41.7% great

no bias

great poster

Poochymama

09-11-2015, 09:24 PM

Like I said Kobe was better than Shaq by 04. :confusedshrug:

04 isn't a valid year to disprove what Pointguard said though.

The valid years are 2000, 2001, 2002, 2009, 2010. Kobe was the best in 2009 and 2010, which doesn't constitute a majority, which is exactly what Pointguard said.

You basically implied he was an idiot("Learn to count sweety") for simply stating a fact.

aj1987

09-11-2015, 09:24 PM

This thread is exposing Kobe turds. Now we know who true Laker fans are.

TheMarkMadsen

09-11-2015, 09:26 PM

This thread is exposing Kobe turds. Now we know who true Laker fans are.

good point how dare laker fans have different opinions and make different arguments on who the greatest players for their franchise are

sorry that we can't all root for a team where the answer is clear cut and dry..

we've had more than just Lebron James play for our franchise

:confusedshrug: :confusedshrug:

aj1987

09-11-2015, 09:28 PM

good point how dare laker fans have different opinions and make different arguments on who the greatest players for their franchise are

sorry that we can't all root for a team where the answer is clear cut and dry..

we've had more than just Lebron James play for our franchise

:confusedshrug: :confusedshrug:
:roll:

Stop melting down, Kobe turd.

TheMarkMadsen

09-11-2015, 09:29 PM

:roll:

Stop melting down, Kobe turd.

dat creativity

aj1987

09-11-2015, 09:35 PM

dat creativity
Pot and kettle.

TheMarkMadsen

09-11-2015, 09:38 PM

Pot and kettle.

I don't go around calling people "lebrontards" or "lebron turds".. thats grade school level shit..

bran is actually creative..

Cold soul

09-11-2015, 10:06 PM

99 = 47%

00 = 46%

01 = 46%

02 = 47%

03 = 45%

04 = 44%

Dat ether. :applause:

aj1987

09-11-2015, 10:22 PM

I don't go around calling people "lebrontards" or "lebron turds".. thats grade school level shit..

bran is actually creative..
Good for you, Kobe turd.

TheMarkMadsen

09-11-2015, 10:24 PM

hey i'm just impressed you've made it through this thread without cussing somebody out so far!!

aj1987

09-11-2015, 10:36 PM

hey i'm just impressed you've made it through this thread without cussing somebody out so far!!
Get off my dick, dude. I'm not Kobe. You're melting down over a random comment about Kobe turds in this thread? :roll:

Pointguard

09-11-2015, 10:51 PM

Learn to count sweety. Kobe's been to the Finals a total of Seven times, in that span he's been the best player on the floor in Four of those Finals to Shaq's three.

No matter how you slice it Kobe was better than Shaq by 04 , arguably 03.
Learn to read. I never said anything about finals. I said rings. Nor has Kobe been been in more finals than Magic so that point is mute as well.

Pointguard

09-11-2015, 10:52 PM

04 isn't a valid year to disprove what Pointguard said though.

The valid years are 2000, 2001, 2002, 2009, 2010. Kobe was the best in 2009 and 2010, which doesn't constitute a majority, which is exactly what Pointguard said.

You basically implied he was an idiot("Learn to count sweety") for simply stating a fact.
Thanks. From day one here... Thanks!

aj1987

09-11-2015, 10:58 PM

Learn to count sweety. Kobe's been to the Finals a total of Seven times, in that span he's been the best player on the floor in Four of those Finals to Shaq's three.

No matter how you slice it Kobe was better than Shaq by 04 , arguably 03.

Strictly the Finals? Not even close. Kobe was the best player in 3 of the Finals though.

2003 is pretty close. 2004, I'd give the edge to Shaq. For the entire PO's.

swagga

09-12-2015, 05:45 AM

hey i'm just impressed you've made it through this thread without cussing somebody out so far!!

son, I'm sorry I affected you so much, following me around in threads and posting troll arguments like mbenga not being a role player (7.5 mpg for 2 seasons) or kobe being measured for who he played.

Kobe is measured for:
- exceptional skills and talent :applause:
- selfish play and bricking (all time brick list #1 goat, millions of broken plays, bad bricks, etc)
- selfish and bad teammate (shaq left, dwight left, phil left, other teammates said kobe was a shit teammate, vanessa left ffs, but she came back for vanity of being #1 lakers wife, so i guess they are a great couple :lol )
- rape and the bad name it gave the lakers
- snitched on shaq and broke the lockerroom code.
- 2004 choke (worse than lebron's!)
- only 1 mvp, only 2 fmvp .. lack of hardware as the main man (lebron has better hardware with worse teams at 30)

So keep this L close to your heart, let it burn your soul and keep you up at night, because I know you are hurting right now. Keep the weak trolling coming son, that's what tells me you are shook. :oldlol:

god bless you and your family, you all need it :bowdown:

ArbitraryWater

09-12-2015, 06:50 AM

99 = 47%

00 = 46%

01 = 46%

02 = 47%

03 = 45%

04 = 44%

We were talking about the playoffs :facepalm

Dat ether. :applause:

Hey, sorry homeboy, those are his regular season stats, which isn't what the illiterate Kobetard (you) was talking about... sorry, take this L

Smoke117

09-12-2015, 07:33 AM

True.

AintNoSunshine

09-12-2015, 08:55 AM

Shaq won back to back to back Rings and FMVP's. What the fk has Kobe done that's remotely as great as that? Score 80 points in a regular season game against the Craptors???

Magic
Shaq

Kobe

Kareem

Cold soul

09-12-2015, 09:38 AM

Shaq won back to back to back Rings and FMVP's. What the fk has Kobe done that's remotely as great as that? Score 80 points in a regular season game against the Craptors???

Magic
Shaq

Kobe

Kareem

Kobe did that back in 09/10 repeat is super impressive just not three peat. How quickly people forget that was five years ago.

SwayDizzle

09-12-2015, 09:55 AM

dubeta

09-12-2015, 10:02 AM

Him Kareem and Shaq are the only Lakers who matter

HOoopCityJones

09-12-2015, 10:14 AM

Strictly the Finals? Not even close. Kobe was the best player in 3 of the Finals though.

2003 is pretty close. 2004, I'd give the edge to Shaq. For the entire PO's.

Resvisionism at it's finest. But what should I expect this is ish, where one argument supports one thing, yet contradicts another. So you're saying Shaq was better than Kobe the entire post season in 04, yet when time came to make a choice they went with Kobe instead of Shaq, even though 04 was arguably the worst season for him from a Finals performance and publicity standpoint. Kobe's been The Lakers best player since 03, and any real Laker fan will tell you this.

It's funny how much some of you idiots try to tell actual Laker fans how shit went down in the organization, that shit never ceases to amuse me.

One bad Finals in 04 doesn't change the fact Kobe was the man by this point and Shaq was a lazy fat slob who wouldn't even get surgery til the middle of a season. Fuccer could barely crack 22 pts a game for the regular season and Post. Aside from rebounding and blks, what exactly is he better at during this period? Kobe dropped 24 pts, 5.5 assts, 4 reb, and 1 stl a game. Shaq certainly wasn't the main option on offense by this point.

HOoopCityJones

09-12-2015, 10:28 AM

Learn to read. I never said anything about finals. I said rings. Nor has Kobe been been in more finals than Magic so that point is mute as well.

The point is you have a retarded ass agenda. You said Kobe wasn't even the best player for most of his rings. Well, if I were you i'd take a look at who was balling in the most crucial games during the 3peat. It wasn't Shaq, unless you count the complete non factors he was facing in every Finals. Magic's greatest Finals performance is his first year and he wasn't even the best player. Yet people give him full credit for a series where Kareem was dominating until he got hurt. So basically you're discrediting Kobe for playing next to Shaq , yet will praise Magic as The Goat Laker when he played next to a Top two player EVER.

Check your double standard puss.

It's quite simple really, Kobe has been the best player in 4 Finals to Shaq's 3. This is why he's seen as an underachiever in comparison to what he could have been.

Would you honestly consider Wade a better player overall than Bron in 2011 because he layed an egg in The Finals? :oldlol:

Wade's Rings

09-12-2015, 11:19 AM

Resvisionism at it's finest. But what should I expect this is ish, where one argument supports one thing, yet contradicts another. So you're saying Shaq was better than Kobe the entire post season in 04, yet when time came to make a choice they went with Kobe instead of Shaq, even though 04 was arguably the worst season for him from a Finals performance and publicity standpoint. Kobe's been The Lakers best player since 03, and any real Laker fan will tell you this.

It's funny how much some of you idiots try to tell actual Laker fans how shit went down in the organization, that shit never ceases to amuse me.

One bad Finals in 04 doesn't change the fact Kobe was the man by this point and Shaq was a lazy fat slob who wouldn't even get surgery til the middle of a season. Fuccer could barely crack 22 pts a game for the regular season and Post. Aside from rebounding and blks, what exactly is he better at during this period? Kobe dropped 24 pts, 5.5 assts, 4 reb, and 1 stl a game. Shaq certainly wasn't the main option on offense by this point.

Kobe was 26 what most people consider your Prime/Peak and Shaq was 32. It's obvious who you build around.

Pointguard

09-12-2015, 01:13 PM

The point is you have a retarded ass agenda. You said Kobe wasn't even the best player for most of his rings. Well, if I were you i'd take a look at who was balling in the most crucial games during the 3peat. It wasn't Shaq, unless you count the complete non factors he was facing in every Finals.
So the truth is a retarded agenda to you? Nobody in their right mind is thinking he was better than Shaq. In '04 when Kobe had to step up into a lead role he was confused to no end. He wasn't even a viable option when the first good defensive team said we aren't making Shaq our priority.

Magic's greatest Finals performance is his first year and he wasn't even the best player. Yet people give him full credit for a series where Kareem was dominating until he got hurt. So basically you're discrediting Kobe for playing next to Shaq , yet will praise Magic as The Goat Laker when he played next to a Top two player.
Magic's best finals were '87, '82 and '88 and he undoubtedly the best player on his team. He brought Showtime and prestige to the franchise along with the best brand of ball in the league. He won like crazy and was the best among the best team players ever.

It's quite simple really, Kobe has been the best player in 4 Finals to Shaq's 3. This is why he's seen as an underachiever in comparison to what he could have been.

In '04 Kobe wasn't better than Shaq so what year are you giving Kobe over Shaq? Kobe wasn't even ready to step up, much less be the man that was doubled/trpled teamed for 90 games.

Would you honestly consider Wade a better player overall than Bron in 2011 because he layed an egg in The Finals? :oldlol: Yes, because Lebron freaked when it mattered most. Wade was more ready for the bigger stage and Lebron was in Wade's way of winning the chip for the team.

Hamtaro CP3KDKG

09-12-2015, 01:15 PM

Kobe is the GOAT laker and yes he is higher than Magic on the alltime list. Magic is the only top 10 player that gets a pass for his shtty defense. Nikkas always rip on Russell for being @zz on offense but never do with Magic since he had a flashy playstyle that a lot of ppl love. Even Bird was a solid defender especially in his younger days.

swagga

09-12-2015, 01:17 PM

TheMarkMadsen

09-12-2015, 01:22 PM

son, I'm sorry I affected you so much, following me around in threads and posting troll arguments like mbenga not being a role player (7.5 mpg for 2 seasons) or kobe being measured for who he played.

dude you are a moron :oldlol:

DJ Mbenga scored 7 combined points in the 09 and 10 playoffs

you keep talking about this 7.5 mpg.. he played 23 games in 09 and 49 in 2010.. and then saw a total of 14 minutes for each playoff run :oldlol:

you can keep repeating the same bulllshit over and over, doesn't change the fact that you are dead wrong..

swagga

09-12-2015, 02:02 PM

dude you are a moron :oldlol:

DJ Mbenga scored 7 combined points in the 09 and 10 playoffs

you keep talking about this 7.5 mpg.. he played 23 games in 09 and 49 in 2010.. and then saw a total of 14 minutes for each playoff run :oldlol:

you can keep repeating the same bulllshit over and over, doesn't change the fact that you are dead wrong..

I was referreing to the regular season dummy. In the playoffs the 4th big rarely if ever gets any minutes. mbenga was a very solid 4th big, which gave them 72 games @ 7.5 mpg in 2 seasons. That's very good production from your 4th big. Thanks for making my point even clearer moron :facepalm

You are so butthurt that kobe<lebron that this was the only thing you could argue over, a troll argument with no logic, lo and behold the 4th big didn't get minutes over gasol/bynum/odom in the PO, who would've thought it ? :rolleyes: Your tiny beta mind can't comprehend that depth is important in the RS because it keeps your key players fresh and healthy. Typical kobe stan, fresh out the dumb and dumber movie :oldlol:

aj1987

09-12-2015, 10:10 PM

Resvisionism at it's finest. But what should I expect this is ish, where one argument supports one thing, yet contradicts another. So you're saying Shaq was better than Kobe the entire post season in 04, yet when time came to make a choice they went with Kobe instead of Shaq, even though 04 was arguably the worst season for him from a Finals performance and publicity standpoint. Kobe's been The Lakers best player since 03, and any real Laker fan will tell you this.
No, he hasn't and no, they won't.

It's funny how much some of you idiots try to tell actual Laker fans how shit went down in the organization, that shit never ceases to amuse me.
:biggums:

You are a freaking Kobe turd. That retard Dubeta is more of a Laker "fan" than you.

One bad Finals in 04 doesn't change the fact Kobe was the man by this point and Shaq was a lazy fat slob who wouldn't even get surgery til the middle of a season. Fuccer could barely crack 22 pts a game for the regular season and Post. Aside from rebounding and blks, what exactly is he better at during this period? Kobe dropped 24 pts, 5.5 assts, 4 reb, and 1 stl a game. Shaq certainly wasn't the main option on offense by this point.
:facepalm

You do know that Kobe was taking like 20+ shots to score 24 points in those PO's, right? Even with all the attention Shaq was drawing.

Yeah, you truly are a Laker "fan". Blame Shaq for not being healthy in the RS and forgetting about Kobe's LEGENDARY Finals.

dubeta

09-12-2015, 10:12 PM

This thread is about ATG Lakers why is Kobe being discussed? :wtf:

houston

09-14-2015, 04:58 PM

TheBigVeto

09-14-2015, 10:57 PM

Neither Kobe or Magic is the GOAT Laker.
It's Kareem.
Magic is much much better than Kobe though.

SpecialQue

09-14-2015, 10:59 PM

I agree with OP even though he's making his point in the bitchiest way possible.

TheMarkMadsen

09-14-2015, 11:03 PM

I was referreing to the regular season dummy.In the playoffs the 4th big rarely if ever gets any minutes. mbenga was a very solid 4th big, which gave them 72 games @ 7.5 mpg in 2 seasons. That's very good production from your 4th big. Thanks for making my point even clearer moron :facepalm

You are so butthurt that kobe<lebron that this was the only thing you could argue over, a troll argument with no logic, lo and behold the 4th big didn't get minutes over gasol/bynum/odom in the PO, who would've thought it ? :rolleyes: Your tiny beta mind can't comprehend that depth is important in the RS because it keeps your key players fresh and healthy. Typical kobe stan, fresh out the dumb and dumber movie :oldlol:

great argument

bring up some guy who played 72 games in 2 seasons as a reason the team was stacked

you might possibly be the dumbest person i've encountered on ISH

and that's saying a lot