08-10 Odom vs 12-14 Bosh

[dubeta]

Playoffs

Odom - 12 points 8 rebounds 3 assists

Bosh - 13 points 6 rebounds 1 assist


Discuss

[plowking]

Bosh is a far player, but I'll say something in regards to him being a first/second/third option...
He isn't cut out to be a first or second option. In my honest opinion, this guy is a third option type. I don't mean that in a negative way, but I believe he is best utilized in that role. Or somewhat as a dummy second option.

I think there is a thread on here where I absolutely rip into the idea of Bosh joining the Heat, due to him being soft, not rebounding, etc, prior to actually coming here and joining the big 3. A lot of what I said still stands true, but I guess I appreciate that he came here. Just from my point of view as a big man, he should play tougher/harder and less finesse. Bosh has that long frame and is quick as hell for a guy his size, yet he always feigns away from contact. Dude should be playing hard out like Kemp, Davis, Cliff Robinson, etc used to play.

Always thought he was overrated, but appreciate the skills he brings out the court after getting to watch him play the last 4 years on the Heat. Saying that though, he is a better player than Odom. In a completely different tier.
Odom is a gone and forgotten player at the end of the day. Someone you might occasionally bring up, like a Jim Jackson, like "yeah, he was pretty damn good. What happened to him though?" kinda guy.

[West-Side]

Lamar Odom could very well be as valuable as Bosh was to Miami, but definitely not better.

What I mean by "valuable" is this: his versatility gave LA a lot of mis-match opportunities. He had one of the better utility ratings when it came to rebounds; he could handle the ball when Kobe/Fish were on the bench; he could hit the mid-range shot and the occasional 3 point shot. He was good at penetrating and good off-the-ball.

However, he was extremely inconsistent too.
Chris Bosh is just a more talented player. He was a legit #1 option for Toronto, something Odom has never done (and never could, he just does not possess that trait). He was a terrific 3rd option on a championship team.

[HOoopCityJones]

Bosh is a far player, but I'll say something in regards to him being a first/second/third option...
He isn't cut out to be a first or second option. In my honest opinion, this guy is a third option type. I don't mean that in a negative way, but I believe he is best utilized in that role. Or somewhat as a dummy second option.

I think there is a thread on here where I absolutely rip into the idea of Bosh joining the Heat, due to him being soft, not rebounding, etc, prior to actually coming here and joining the big 3. A lot of what I said still stands true, but I guess I appreciate that he came here. Just from my point of view as a big man, he should play tougher/harder and less finesse. Bosh has that long frame and is quick as hell for a guy his size, yet he always feigns away from contact. Dude should be playing hard out like Kemp, Davis, Cliff Robinson, etc used to play.

Always thought he was overrated, but appreciate the skills he brings out the court after getting to watch him play the last 4 years on the Heat. Saying that though, he is a better player than Odom. In a completely different tier.
Odom is a gone and forgotten player at the end of the day. Someone you might occasionally bring up, like a Jim Jackson, like "yeah, he was pretty damn good. What happened to him though?" kinda guy.

Chris Bosh as the first option


<PRE>
Season Age Tm Lg Pos G GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% 2P 2PA 2P% eFG% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
2009-10 25 TOR NBA C 70 70 36.1 8.6 16.5 .518 0.1 0.3 .364 8.5 16.2 .521 .522 6.7 8.4 .797 2.9 7.9 10.8 2.4 0.6 1.0 2.4 2.4 24.0
</PRE>

Averaging 24 and 10 isn't first option worthy , you're right.

[StephHamann]

Odom played with a guy that makes his teammates better

Bosh played with a cancer

No suprise that Odom was smoking crack and out of the league 1 year after he left his leader.

[riseagainst]

Odom played with a guy that makes his teammates better

Bosh played with a cancer

No suprise that Odom was smoking crack and out of the league 1 year after he left his leader.


:lol

:applause:

[tpols]

how exactly would odom have fit on those heat teams? A versatile ball handler who needs to play himself into a rythym, very good rebounder post finisher.. with Lebron and Wade pounding the rock and relying so much on spacing to get their lanes open.


Odom would've been Michael beasely if he was on the Heat.. and Bosh's in between game would flourish with LA in the triangle.

[plowking]

Chris Bosh as the first option


<PRE>
Season Age Tm Lg Pos G GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% 2P 2PA 2P% eFG% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
2009-10 25 TOR NBA C 70 70 36.1 8.6 16.5 .518 0.1 0.3 .364 8.5 16.2 .521 .522 6.7 8.4 .797 2.9 7.9 10.8 2.4 0.6 1.0 2.4 2.4 24.0
</PRE>

See that just implies that he was as good as Anthony Davis was this last season... and I can tell with my own eyes that he wasn't close.
It implies that Bosh was in line with Tim Duncan's best years.

Bosh might have put up some stats in Toronto, but at the end of the day, he plays basketball the wrong way considering he is a big guy. Aldridge did it too, but he is better now since he gets inside and grabs boards and plays physical. But these guys both used to play soft, lazy, and too prissy basketball for big men. They seemed to have been taught all the wrong things.
Bosh is undoubtably one of the worst big men I have seen at keeping the ball high and going back up after grabbing a rebound. Firstly because he doesn't grab too many offensive ones, but when he does, it goes straight to the hip... :facepalm

Bosh is actually one of the most frustrating, but at times, most rewarding players I've ever watched. You seem him start doing something right, and you think it is going to be a constant, and then it goes away.
Funnily enough, whenever he played the Lakers and went up against Bynum and Gasol, he played perfect ball. I always wished he kept playing like that throughout the season.

[Akrazotile]

:lol

:applause:


You know hes talkin bout gasol, right??

[Achilleas]

for the third role on the team odom is better fit than bosh, bosh is like kevin love ,playing in bad team as superstars and only care to shoot

[riseagainst]

You know hes talkin bout gasol, right??

Gasol and Mario Chalmers, yeah.

[HOoopCityJones]

See that just implies that he was as good as Anthony Davis was this last season... and I can tell with my own eyes that he wasn't close.
It implies that Bosh was in line with Tim Duncan's best years.

Bosh might have put up some stats in Toronto, but at the end of the day, he plays basketball the wrong way considering he is a big guy. Aldridge did it too, but he is better now since he gets inside and grabs boards and plays physical. But these guys both used to play soft, lazy, and too prissy basketball for big men. They seemed to have been taught all the wrong things.
Bosh is undoubtably one of the worst big men I have seen at keeping the ball high and going back up after grabbing a rebound. Firstly because he doesn't grab too many offensive ones, but when he does, it goes straight to the hip... :facepalm

Bosh is actually one of the most frustrating, but at times, most rewarding players I've ever watched. You seem him start doing something right, and you think it is going to be a constant, and then it goes away.
Funnily enough, whenever he played the Lakers and went up against Bynum and Gasol, he played perfect ball. I always wished he kept playing like that throughout the season.

Basically , you're talking out of your ass , like always. If Bosh isn't first option material dropping numbers like that, neither is Lebron or Wade.

[ralph_i_el]

Odom was a better type of player to be a 3rd option. Bosh clearly was a better type of player to be a 1st or 2nd option.

[Dr Seuss]

and bosh's stats last season as a 2nd option. 21/7/2

the guy is a legit nba 1st and 2nd option. relegating players like him to a 3rd option with 50% less touches, in an offense that doesnt suit his play style is going to hurt his production... how shocking :eek:

[SouBeachTalents]

Bosh "could" be a first option, but you're a first round exit at best with him as your franchise player. Dude has missed the playoffs 6/8 seasons he's played without LeBron, in the "worst conference of all time" to boot. He's better suited as a second option a la Gasol

[dubeta]

Lol everyone picking Bosh just remember that I'm talking about 2012-2014 only (the championship years)

[plowking]

Basically , you're talking out of your ass , like always. If Bosh isn't first option material dropping numbers like that, neither is Lebron or Wade.

Was Jerry Stackhouse a first option? Was LMA a first option? Was Zach Randolph a first option? Wasn't Shawn Marion a first option?

These guys all put up numbers as good, or better as Bosh at one point. All first options, right?


Do you ever stop being a f*ckstick, or is it just natural at this point?
Some guys just aren't first options. Bosh is one of them. Someone has to put up points on a team if there is no one else.
He isn't a leader, he isn't good enough to lead, he doesn't do the things on the court a good first option should, he isn't a player you win with as your best player.

Why would I be full of shit? Why would I directly call out one of my players for the sake of it? I've literally always thought that about him, and yet he is probably my favourite player on the Heat now that Beasley is gone. You're the one that does nothing but follow me, and then debate me on just about everything I say. Find a new hobby. :oldlol:

[G0ATbe]

Bosh's stats don't really mean anything in comparison when you factor in who he was playing with. LeBalds m.o is making teammates worse. Switch Bosh over to Kobe's team during 09/10 and he'd average 20/10 again with ease.

[DMV2]

Bosh 2012 Finals performance >>>> Odom's career

Bigger fan of Odom by the way.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Bosh averaged 17/7 as a 3rd option for 4 years in the regular season..

that is really fuccing good..

[Wade's Rings]

how exactly would odom have fit on those heat teams? A versatile ball handler who needs to play himself into a rythym, very good rebounder post finisher.. with Lebron and Wade pounding the rock and relying so much on spacing to get their lanes open.


Odom would've been Michael beasely if he was on the Heat.. and Bosh's in between game would flourish with LA in the triangle.

:facepalm Wade played with Shaq and he did just fine. He also has shown to Elite off ball

[TheMarkMadsen]

:facepalm Wade played with Shaq and he did just fine. He also has shown to Elite off ball

no not elite but better than usually given credit for

[TripleA]

Bosh averaged 17/7 as a 3rd option for 4 years in the regular season..

that is really fuccing good..

Chris Bosh is a very good player a perennial all star but he was not a legit all nba player. Dwyane wade and Lebron were both Mvp calibre players at the same time. Bosh on the other hand was arguably top 20. i think my view of him would be the least biased.

[HOoopCityJones]

Was Jerry Stackhouse a first option? Was LMA a first option? Was Zach Randolph a first option? Wasn't Shawn Marion a first option?

These guys all put up numbers as good, or better as Bosh at one point. All first options, right?


Do you ever stop being a f*ckstick, or is it just natural at this point?
Some guys just aren't first options. Bosh is one of them. Someone has to put up points on a team if there is no one else.
He isn't a leader, he isn't good enough to lead, he doesn't do the things on the court a good first option should, he isn't a player you win with as your best player.

Why would I be full of shit? Why would I directly call out one of my players for the sake of it? I've literally always thought that about him, and yet he is probably my favourite player on the Heat now that Beasley is gone. You're the one that does nothing but follow me, and then debate me on just about everything I say. Find a new hobby. :oldlol:

So Bosh dropping 24 and 10 should be attributed to the trash he's played with but the likes of Dwade is praised for what he did statistically with little manpower and likewise little results with out two of the greatest players of all time in Shaq and Lebron? :biggums:

Bosh did about as well as guys who don't have enough high or all star help on their Teams while trying to make a deep run in the playoffs. Lebron, Kobe, Wade. They all know what that's like. Why try to paint Bosh as some sap? He was highly coveted to be the "man" on any Team in the league before he chose to be number three in Miami.

Just tell me one thing honestly, do you seriously think Miami don't at least get to the ECF every year they did with only Wade and Bosh and a decent starting PG (which Riles definitely had in his back pocket) in case Lebron didn't come? Of course they would. Boston was aging , Orlando was in disarray and had Lebron stayed in Cleveland who knows if he'd even be 2 for 6 for crying out loud. Wade and Bosh in Miami would have tore shit up in The East! Lebron knew this , which is why he came. All it takes is Riles making a call to New Orleans to secure a former Wake forest prodigy if the LBJ says nah.

[Legends66NBA7]

So Bosh dropping 24 and 10 should be attributed to the trash he's played with but the likes of Dwade is praised for what he did statistically with little manpower and likewise little results with out two of the greatest players of all time in Shaq and Lebron?

Wade is a flat out better player than Bosh. 10 Bosh is nowhere close to 09 Wade.

[SouBeachTalents]

Wade is a flat out better player than Bosh. 10 Bosh is nowhere close to 09 Wade.

Even '06 Brand > '10 Bosh

[Legends66NBA7]

Even '06 Brand > '10 Bosh

No doubt.

Ecen if scoring is a debate, Brand played much better defense and took his team a game away from the conference finals. Played better than Bosh ever did as a first option in the playoffs.

10 Bosh was on a top 10 worst defensive team of all-time; he didn't play much defense at all that year which often gets overlooked.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Bosh all day.

Odom was nice, but inconsistent by its literal definition.

Bosh actually played pretty well this past season (before the injury). What was he averaging? ~20 & 7? You give him the right opportunity, and dude is a legit 2nd and fringe #1 option.

[ShawkFactory]

Lamar Odom could very well be as valuable as Bosh was to Miami, but definitely not better.

What I mean by "valuable" is this: his versatility gave LA a lot of mis-match opportunities. He had one of the better utility ratings when it came to rebounds; he could handle the ball when Kobe/Fish were on the bench; he could hit the mid-range shot and the occasional 3 point shot. He was good at penetrating and good off-the-ball.

However, he was extremely inconsistent too.
Chris Bosh is just a more talented player. He was a legit #1 option for Toronto, something Odom has never done (and never could, he just does not possess that trait). He was a terrific 3rd option on a championship team.
Shut it down.

As a 3rd option I'd probably take Odom. As a first or even second give me Bosh.

[GrapeApe]

How many players have ever gone from being a first option / franchise player to being a third option while still in their prime, then on top of it asked to play out of position? Bosh had to make by far the biggest adjustment of any of the big 3.

His impact went beyond the numbers. Two of his most significant contributions were stretching the floor on offense and being arguably the best pick and roll defensive big in the league. Neither of those things show up in the box score in terms of his individual numbers, but they were extremely important to the Heat's success. The ground he could cover on defense allowed Lebron and Wade to wreak havoc on the perimeter, and his near automatic elbow jumper was responsible for countless assists and open driving lanes.

Do I wish he was more physical and rebounded more consistently? Sure, but I also understand the unique value he brings in other areas. So to answer the question '11-'14 Bosh > '08-'10 Odom. Without question.

[dubeta]

How many players have ever gone from being a first option / franchise player to being a third option while still in their prime, then on top of it asked to play out of position? Bosh had to make by far the biggest adjustment of any of the big 3.

His impact went beyond the numbers. Two of his most significant contributions were stretching the floor on offense and being arguably the best pick and roll defensive big in the league. Neither of those things show up in the box score in terms of his individual numbers, but they were extremely important to the Heat's success. The ground he could cover on defense allowed Lebron and Wade to wreak havoc on the perimeter, and his near automatic elbow jumper was responsible for countless assists and open driving lanes.

Do I wish he was more physical and rebounded more consistently? Sure, but I also understand the unique value he brings in other areas. So to answer the question '11-'14 Bosh > '08-'10 Odom. Without question.

Nice but the question is 12-14 Bosh

[plowking]

So Bosh dropping 24 and 10 should be attributed to the trash he's played with but the likes of Dwade is praised for what he did statistically with little manpower and likewise little results with out two of the greatest players of all time in Shaq and Lebron? :biggums:


The difference is, Wade puts up 26ppg playing next to Bron. Wade plays a final as the best player on the floor on a team with Bron.
The difference is Wade wins a title with Shaq averaging 20/10 in the regular season. The difference is, Wade stays the number 1 guy.

Has nothing to do with the make up of the team either, so don't give me that crap. The cream rises to the top. Bosh generally fell by the wayside. This was his year as the man, prior to getting sick and Wade constantly injured and old, and he led the Heat to an abysmal record even before he went down. While everyone was predicting "55 win" Heat, I said we'd struggle to get over 35 wins prior to the season.

At times Bosh fell to the 4th option when Allen was on the floor. He is a far better player than Allen was, but that isn't the point. The point is, he isn't a real first option. He is a guy that got his numbers on bad teams. He is a second or third option, and no where near cracked up to be.

I'd take Brand, Amare, Boozer, LMA,Randolph, etc, all on their best days over Bosh.

Duncan, Nowitzki and Pau are all significantly better than he is.

[plowking]

How many players have ever gone from being a first option / franchise player to being a third option while still in their prime, then on top of it asked to play out of position? Bosh had to make by far the biggest adjustment of any of the big 3.

His impact went beyond the numbers. Two of his most significant contributions were stretching the floor on offense and being arguably the best pick and roll defensive big in the league. Neither of those things show up in the box score in terms of his individual numbers, but they were extremely important to the Heat's success. The ground he could cover on defense allowed Lebron and Wade to wreak havoc on the perimeter, and his near automatic elbow jumper was responsible for countless assists and open driving lanes.

Do I wish he was more physical and rebounded more consistently? Sure, but I also understand the unique value he brings in other areas. So to answer the question '11-'14 Bosh > '08-'10 Odom. Without question.

Agree with all of this, especially bolded.

[GrapeApe]

Nice but the question is 12-14 Bosh

Actually, the comment in my previous post about Bosh playing out of position makes more sense when referring to '12-'14 since technically Joel Anthony (lol) was the starting center in '11. Thanks for catching that.

'12-'14 Bosh >> '08-'10 Odom.

[JT123]

Actually, the comment in my previous post about Bosh playing out of position makes more sense when referring to '12-'14 since technically Joel Anthony (lol) was the starting center in '11. Thanks for catching that.

'12-'14 Bosh >> '08-'10 Odom.
You are looking at this with your homer glasses on. Do you REALLY think Bosh is a better 3rd option than Odom? We are talking about a guy who made Hibbert look like prime Shaq. Not to mention his numbers would drop off drastically during every post season.

[Showtime2001]

You are looking at this with your homer glasses on. Do you REALLY think Bosh is a better 3rd option than Odom? We are talking about a guy who made Hibbert like like prime Shaq. Not to mention his numbers would drop off drastically during every post season.
So I guess Carl Landry was like prime Shaq too...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCz8Ydhv-z8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbIPpr295Zw

[SouBeachTalents]

So I guess Carl Landry was like prime Shaq too...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCz8Ydhv-z8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbIPpr295Zw

Lol, terrible comparison. Did Landry put up 22 & 10 on 56%

[JT123]

So I guess Carl Landry was like prime Shaq too...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCz8Ydhv-z8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbIPpr295Zw
Unless Landry doubled his regular season averages in those series like Hibbert did against Bosh, then there is no comparison. :facepalm

[tpols]

The difference is, Wade puts up 26ppg playing next to Bron. Wade plays a final as the best player on the floor on a team with Bron.
The difference is Wade wins a title with Shaq averaging 20/10 in the regular season. The difference is, Wade stays the number 1 guy.

Has nothing to do with the make up of the team either, so don't give me that crap. The cream rises to the top. Bosh generally fell by the wayside. This was his year as the man, prior to getting sick and Wade constantly injured and old, and he led the Heat to an abysmal record even before he went down. While everyone was predicting "55 win" Heat, I said we'd struggle to get over 35 wins prior to the season.

At times Bosh fell to the 4th option when Allen was on the floor. He is a far better player than Allen was, but that isn't the point. The point is, he isn't a real first option. He is a guy that got his numbers on bad teams. He is a second or third option, and no where near cracked up to be.

I'd take Brand, Amare, Boozer, LMA,Randolph, etc, all on their best days over Bosh.

Duncan, Nowitzki and Pau are all significantly better than he is.

lol.. what would brand or amare or boozer or Randolph have done.. they would have 'fell by the wayside as well'.. hell even lma.. none provide any interior defense really.. bosh was the best defensive hedge of the group in a defense that specialized in pnr trapping.

There's NO big man that would contribute to the heats defensive schemes more than bosh did other than maybe kg or Duncan.. and certainly none that would get low post touches seeing how the heats slash and kick offense flourished. You're talking right out your wade/bron stan bias right now