If Phil moved Kobe to the point, could he have averaged a triple double?

[sportjames23]

Post-Shaq years, could Bean have averaged a triple double if Phil put him at point, ala what Doug Collins did with MJ in 1989?

I use post-Shaq because MJ didn't have a dominant center to work with, so I wanted to put Kobe in a similar situation.

[Akrazotile]

Why would moving to point increase his rebounding numbers?

[sportjames23]

Why would moving to point increase his rebounding numbers?


Oscar, Magic and Kidd did it on a regular basis. Being at the point doesn't keep on from rebounding.

[Rocketswin2013]

Oscar, Magic and Kidd did it on a regular basis. Being at the point doesn't keep on from rebounding.
Why would moving to the point increase his rebounding numbers?

[sportjames23]

Why would moving to the point increase his rebounding numbers?


It did for MJ. I was wondering if it could do the same for Kobe. That, and his assist numbers.

[GoatBoy]

He would be a double double machine, triple doubles here and there.

[Kblaze8855]

We gotta stop with this stat worshiping bullshit. If a guy like Kobe got the help of his team, coaches, and scorekeepers...sure he COULD get triple doubles...but what for?

Really now...



LA Times, April 11, 1989

Since switching to point guard for the Chicago Bulls, Michael Jordan has become statistic conscious. He has started checking with statisticians to see how close he is to a triple-double. He had a string of seven consecutive triple-doubles broken Friday night.

"The guys at the scorer's desk let me know what I need," Jordan said.

So, too, do the Bulls' assistant coaches.

"They keep reminding me when I get back to the huddle," Jordan said. "They say, 'You need three more of this. You need four more of that.' "



The Sun-Sentinel, April 9, 1989

During breaks in games, Jordan has been wandering over to the scorer`s table to get updates on how many rebounds, assists and points he needs to fill his three double-figure quotas.

"The guys at the scorer`s desk let me know what I need," he said. "They tell me, `You need three assists; you need two rebounds."

Jordan also has been double-checking the figures with Chicago a.ssistants.

"They keep me in tune," he said. "They keep reminding me when I come back to the huddle, how much I need."

Last Sunday, at home against New Jersey, the 10th a.ssist was Jordan`s final goal.

"I knew I had nine a.ssists," he said, "and I looked at (forward) Brad (Sellers), and said, `Brad, can I count on you for my 10th?` And he said, `yeah` and hit a jumper from the baseline."

He was deciding in advance...to get triple doubles. And he was utterly shameless about it. Nobody denied he was stat padding at the time. The announcers called him on it. I vividly remember it....


Im trying to track down a book excerpt I saw on the Bulls score keeper since the 60s. Dude named Bob Rosenberg who Jordan used to love. There was a story on Jordan introducing him to Barkley who didnt care till he was told thats the guy who does the stats...then he was really friendly to him.

Dude has been around forever....from Jerry Sloan to Derrick Rose. Jordan, Reggie theus, and Stacey King were some of the people hes said to have either helped out or just been friendly with. Theus always wanting an extra assist or two. Rumor was he would pad Kings stats trying to get him on the all rookie team.


I guess I see why they did it though. They can flat out admit they were just trying to stack the numbers and people still celebrate it 25 years later.

So yes...Kobe likely could if he too were going out of his way. We have seen him and Lebron stat pad to triple doubles then do the "Nah I didnt know...." lie in the post game.


So what? Great players can manipulate numbers quite well.

[CoastalRyan]

The only way Kobe averages a triple double is if he convinces the league to count his shot attempts as assists.

[HOoopCityJones]

Kobe had a 17 asst game this year.

[Nuff Said]

Kobe had a 17 asst game this year.
How many turnovers?

[SugarHill]

How many turnovers?
3...making his a/t ratio godly

he actually had a 2.2 a/t ratio for games where he put up at least 10 assists last year.

[Psileas]

Why do people assume that moving to the PG position suddenly transforms a good rebounding guard into a rebounding monster? Do you think Magic or Kidd were elite rebounders just because they didn't care to score, but pushed offenses instead, thus grabbing a few more defensive rebounds? Kobe was good himself at hunting defensive rebounds, then go all the way offensively himself and he never approached 10 rpg.
Plus, when was the last time any Phil-coached PG/player averaged anywhere near 10 apg?

Kobe would have to force his way into averaging a TD (and this would possibly lead to a worse than potential team record). No natural role would allow him to do this.

[pauk]

Dont think his rebounding will improve by moving him even further out positionally and role wise.... he just aint that type of a rebounder, he could get to 7-8 if he really tried hard but...... and averaging at least 10 apg requires pass first mindset from start to finish of the game, Kobe continuing to average his ~30 apg with that is impossible even if you have insane raw passing skills / vision / instincts especially in this modern era, closest to that was a certain guy in Cleveland 2009... Kobe aint that, i do believe he could average 10 apg if he really really wanted, which means being unselfish/pass first offensively every single game & entire game, sacrificing his shots/PPG... theoretically skillwise he is capable of averaging 10 apg, he has the tools, but i doubt if he has the mindset/discipline to "suppress the inner mamba" (his insane scoring ability/instincts) for that much & that long.

So i say no.


That or simply take the delorean back to the 60s & try exploit the league record high possessions per game seasons.

[pauk]

Oscar, Magic and Kidd did it on a regular basis. Being at the point doesn't keep on from rebounding.

Oscar played in the 60s, Magic was a 6'9" point-forward and Jordan was an athletic freak of nature who was determined to go after triple doubles (in 1989) who still didnt get 10 rpg, 8 was the best and he tried extremly hard.... Kidd however, very impressive... just a nasty work horse (and really wanted triple doubles), still... no 10 rpg season...

[AirFederer]

10 points/10 assists/10 turnovers, yeah sure.

[Duffy Pratt]

His highest rebounding total was 6.9 per game. Somehow moving him to a position where he is less likely to get rebounds will boost his rebounding over 40%? His highest assists per game was 6.0, but I guess you are assuming that his assist totals have been kept artificially low because he doesn't get the ball enough, right? Putting him to point guard would surely boost that up by over 60%. Oh, and while we are at it, lets assume that putting him at point will also get him 5 steals a game.