How many rings does a Kobe and Duncan duo win?

[HOoopCityJones]

Phil is coaching.

[riseagainst]

every year they play together.

[Showtime2001]

every year they play together.
This.

[Hey Yo]

None, cause Kobe made it clear he would only play for the Lakers.

[JT123]

They SHOULD win every year if both in their primes, but I don't think it would work out that way. Kobe's teams have always struggled in crunch time due to his hijacking the offense and refusing to let more efficient teammates shoot the ball. Would Kobe be willing to defer to the superior player in Duncan down the stretch of close playoff games? He wasn't willing to defer to the most dominant player ever in prime Shaq, so I doubt he'd be willing to do so with Duncan.

[SOD 21]

They SHOULD win every year if both in their primes, but I don't think it would work out that way. Kobe's teams have always struggled in crunch time due to his hijacking the offense and refusing to let more efficient teammates shoot the ball. Would Kobe be willing to defer to the superior player in Duncan down the stretch of close playoff games? He wasn't willing to defer to the most dominant player ever in prime Shaq, so I doubt he'd be willing to do so with Duncan.

Some of Kobe's issues around Shaquille O'Neal had to do with both his attitude (i.e., his insecurities) and also lack of overall work ethic, which Kobe did not respect.

With Duncan being a much more respectful teammate and a much harder worker than Shaq, the dynamic would work very well between Kobe Bryant and Tim Duncan. The duo could win six, seven or eight titles together.

[HoopologyPhD]

Shaq> Duncan therefore, Kobe + Shaq> Kobe + Duncan

[NZStreetBaller]

Between 2000 and 2010 was mostly dominated by spurs and lakers so yeah theyd have 10 straight finals appearances. And most likely 10 straight titles.

[JT123]

Shaq> Duncan therefore, Kobe + Shaq> Kobe + Duncan
Pretty much. People say Duncan and Kobe would get along better, but I don't think so. The only big that has actually enjoyed playing with Kobe was Pau. Duncan may not have an aggressive personality, but he doesn't strike me as a doormat either. Eventually he would get tired of Kobe's cancerous play style and depart for another team.

[warriorfan]

I would have to say that Duncan is slightly worse than Wade + Bosh.

Kobe and Duncan would probably go for 6+ rings realistically.

[kennethgriffin]

They SHOULD win every year if both in their primes, but I don't think it would work out that way. Kobe's teams have always struggled in crunch time due to his hijacking the offense and refusing to let more efficient teammates shoot the ball. Would Kobe be willing to defer to the superior player in Duncan down the stretch of close playoff games? He wasn't willing to defer to the most dominant player ever in prime Shaq, so I doubt he'd be willing to do so with Duncan.

http://img.pandawhale.com/179505-Jacksonville-Jaguars-wtf-guy-g-d9yu.gif

[JT123]

http://img.pandawhale.com/179505-Jacksonville-Jaguars-wtf-guy-g-d9yu.gif
http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/24200/the-truth-about-kobe-bryant-in-crunch-time
Not my fault Kobe stans don't like to hear the facts :confusedshrug:

[kennethgriffin]

1999 - Duncan title ( combined = title )
2000 - Kobe title ( combined = title )
2001 - Kobe title ( combined = title )
2002 - Kobe title ( combined = title )
2003 - Duncan title ( combined = title )
2004 - Kobe Finals ( combined = finals atleast )
2005 - Duncan title ( combined = finals atleast )
2007 - Duncan title ( combined = title )
2008 - Kobe Finals ( combined = title )
2009 - Kobe title ( combined = title )
2010 - Kobe title ( combined = title )
2013 - Duncan Finals ( combined = finals atleast )
2014 - Duncan title ( combined = finals atleast )

9 for 13

possibility of winning 10+

[kennethgriffin]

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/24200/the-truth-about-kobe-bryant-in-crunch-time
Not my fault Kobe stans don't like to hear the facts :confusedshrug:

http://img.pandawhale.com/179505-Jacksonville-Jaguars-wtf-guy-g-d9yu.gif

[ShawkFactory]

Assuming they had an adequate cast? A whole hell of a lot

[HOoopCityJones]

Just think, Duncan is basically Gasol on steroids offensively with a higher defensive peak. Shaq and Kobe were a decent duo defensively , but Kobe and Duncan? I think some Teams would've struggled to score 80 pts on them with such superior interior and perimeter defensive play.

[TheMarkMadsen]

they would have made the finals every year from 99-2010

so 7-8 rings

[ShawkFactory]

Just think, Duncan is basically Gasol on steroids offensively with a higher defensive peak. Shaq and Kobe were a decent duo defensively , but Kobe and Duncan? I think some Teams would've struggled to score 80 pts on them with such superior interior and perimeter defensive play.
Just what I was thinking. Smart, skilled, long. But better.

Duncan and Kobe wouldn't fizzle out like Shaq and he did either.

[SouBeachTalents]

Which specific teams would even have a chance of beating them?

'00 Blazers
'02 Kings
'04 Pistons
Big 3 Celtics
Big 3 Heat

They'd be the only ones I could realistically see

[TheMarkMadsen]

Which specific teams would even have a chance of beating them?

'00 Blazers - If Duncan is injured then they win
'02 Kings - Nah still don't see them winning
'04 Pistons - Duncan & Kobe both struggled against this team, maybe no
Big 3 Celtics - Lakers double & triple teamed Kobe in 08, doesn't happen with Duncan beside him.. win
Big 3 Heat - formed in the 2011 season

They'd be the only ones I could realistically see


The only time that I could see them losing is in 00 (Duncan injured) and 04 ( Kobe's knee + they both struggled against this team)

[guy]

Where's Shaq? Assuming Shaq is in San Antonio in Duncan's place, and Kobe/Duncan are in LA with the level of role players who surrounded Kobe/Shaq and Kobe/Gasol, I think the championships would go something like this:

99 - Spurs
00 - Spurs
01 - Spurs
02 - Kings
03 - Lakers
04 - Pistons
05 - Pistons
06 - Lakers
07 - Lakers
08 - Celtics
09 - Lakers
10 - Lakers
11 - Mavs
12 - Heat
13 - Heat

[RidonKs]

man imagine how fvcking boss and stoic kobe would be... well how much more boss and stoic he'd be if he grew up under steady old man riverwalk instead of the Big Volatility

[SwayDizzle]

the scary thing about this scenario is that their personalities would mesh very well. and that is the only concern one would have when pairing the two. They are beyond any doubt GOAT level skill wise. there is mutual respect between the two. Duncan isn't as imposing as Shaq and there wouldn't be this battle for the spotlight. GOAT level defense and offense on the same team would be a dynasty for the ages. 7-8 rings.

[T_L_P]

Where's Shaq? Assuming Shaq is in San Antonio in Duncan's place, and Kobe/Duncan are in LA with the level of role players who surrounded Kobe/Shaq and Kobe/Gasol, I think the championships would go something like this:

99 - Spurs
00 - Spurs
01 - Spurs
02 - Kings
03 - Lakers
04 - Pistons
05 - Pistons
06 - Lakers
07 - Lakers
08 - Celtics
09 - Lakers
10 - Lakers
11 - Mavs
12 - Heat
13 - Heat

Shaq with Daniels, Robinson, Johnson, Porter and Rose as his best teammates is getting swept by Duncan/Kobe/Fisher/Horry/Fox, without question.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

6+

That would be a terrifying duo.

[Mr. Jabbar]

10 at least, and i hate kobe

[JT123]

10 at least, and i hate kobe
Back from your ban I see. Hopefully you have learned your lesson and will be more respectful to your kang in the future. :cheers:

[Mr. Jabbar]

Back from your ban I see. Hopefully you have learned your lesson and will be more respectful to your kang in the future. :cheers:

yes, ima a new man

#longlivethekang

[riseagainst]

I hate Kobe, but I hate to admit it they'd win at least 10.

[Demitri98]

Let's assume Shaq is on the Spurs in the place of Duncan and Duncan and Kobe are together on the Lakers.

00-The twin tower Spurs (Shaq, DRob) beat them by swarming Duncan with 2 DPOY-level centers at once and making Kobe chuck LA out of the series
01-ring
02-ring
03-ring
04-Pistons still beat LA in 7
05-ring
06-ring
07-ring
08-Celtics beat them
09-ring
10-ring
11-they beat Dallas in the 2nd round but lose to a young, bouncy OKC team in the WCF...Heat beat OKC in the finals
12-ring...They beat Miami in 7 games
13-They beat OKC in the WCF but lose the the Heat in the finals
14-Swept in the 2nd round by Golden State, people start to lose faith in them because of their age
15-First round exit, both injured for stretches during the regular season
16-Miss the playoffs
Summer of '16: Kobe and Duncan retire together and get married

[SouBeachTalents]

Let's assume Shaq is on the Spurs in the place of Duncan and Duncan and Kobe are together on the Lakers.

00-The twin tower Spurs (Shaq, DRob) beat them by swarming Duncan with 2 DPOY-level centers at once and making Kobe chuck LA out of the series
01-ring
02-ring
03-ring
04-Pistons still beat LA in 7
05-ring
06-ring
07-ring
08-Celtics beat them
09-ring
10-ring
11-they beat Dallas in the 2nd round but lose to a young, bouncy OKC team in the WCF...Heat beat OKC in the finals
12-ring-They beat Miami in 7 games
13-They beat OKC in the WCF but lose the the Heat in the finals
13-same as '12, but 6 games
14-Swept in the 2nd round by Golden State, people start to lose faith in them because of their age
15-First round exit, both injured for considerable period of time
16-Miss the playoffs
Summer of '16: Kobe and Duncan retire together and get married

Why would they beat the Heat in '12 but not '13?

[Duderonomy]

Too many factors. Let's say remove Shaq from Lakers or remove Ginobili and 10 mil from the cap spend on role players for the Spurs.

[guy]

Shaq with Daniels, Robinson, Johnson, Porter and Rose as his best teammates is getting swept by Duncan/Kobe/Fisher/Horry/Fox, without question.

Well in 99 Kobe just isn't good enough and Duncan is hurt in 2000 anyway. In 2001, I just feel like Duncan won't have much success offensively against both Shaq and Robinson while Shaq will still destroy themon the other end.

[guy]

Let's assume Shaq is on the Spurs in the place of Duncan and Duncan and Kobe are together on the Lakers.

00-The twin tower Spurs (Shaq, DRob) beat them by swarming Duncan with 2 DPOY-level centers at once and making Kobe chuck LA out of the series
01-ring
02-ring
03-ring
04-Pistons still beat LA in 7
05-ring
06-ring
07-ring
08-Celtics beat them
09-ring
10-ring
11-they beat Dallas in the 2nd round but lose to a young, bouncy OKC team in the WCF...Heat beat OKC in the finals
12-ring...They beat Miami in 7 games
13-They beat OKC in the WCF but lose the the Heat in the finals
14-Swept in the 2nd round by Golden State, people start to lose faith in them because of their age
15-First round exit, both injured for stretches during the regular season
16-Miss the playoffs
Summer of '16: Kobe and Duncan retire together and get married

Why would they not have the same problems in 01 as 00?

[Demitri98]

Why would they not have the same problems in 01 as 00?
Kobe matures as a playmaker and Duncan isn't rusty from being hurt.

[SamuraiSWISH]

2000 Duncan w/ Kobe = Loss
2001 Duncan w/ Kobe = Chip
2002 Duncan w/ Kobe = Chip
2003 Duncan and Kobe = Chip
2004 Duncan w/ Kobe = Chip
2005 Duncan w/ Kobe = Chip
2006 Kobe w/ Duncan = Chip
2007 Kobe w/ Duncan = Chip
2008 Kobe w/ Duncan = Chip
2009 Kobe w/ Duncan = Chip
2010 Kobe w/ Duncan = Chip
2011 Kobe w/ Duncan = Loss
2012 Kobe w/ Duncan = Loss
2013 Kobe w/ Duncan = Chip
2014 Kobe w/ Duncan = Loss

10 to 11 depending on caliber of role players. Kind of similar to pairing MJ with Hakeem. Two guys with ample skill, longevity, durability and ball IQ.

1985 Hakeem w/ MJ = Loss
1986 Hakeem w/ MJ = Loss
1987 MJ w/ Hakeem = Loss
1988 MJ w/ Hakeem = Chip
1989 MJ w/ Hakeem = Chip
1990 MJ w/ Hakeem = Chip
1991 MJ w/ Hakeem = Chip
1992 MJ w/ Hakeem = Chip
1993 MJ w/ Hakeem = Chip
1994 Hakeem w/ MJ = Chip
1995 Hakeem w/ MJ = Chip
1996 MJ w/ Hakeem = Chip
1997 MJ w/ Hakeem = Chip
1998 MJ w/ Hakeem = Chip

10 or 11 chips. Obviously depending if MJ played through the 1994 and 1995 season.

[Lebronxrings]

take duncan off of pop and hes much, much worse. Pop is smart enough to hide his offensive deficiencies and put better players in the alpha role. Phil could do it with kobe, only problem is kobe isn't good enough to lead a team. Both kobe and duncan are proven role players but don't have that leader, 1st star option (parker,shaq,manu,gasol)

[SamuraiSWISH]

take duncan off of pop and hes much, much worse. Pop is smart enough to hide his offensive deficiencies and put better players in the alpha role. Phil could do it with kobe, only problem is kobe isn't good enough to lead a team. Both kobe and duncan are proven role players but don't have that leader, 1st star option (parker,shaq,manu,gasol)
Kobe and Duncan aren't alpha superstars, team leaders but role players to you? And Gasol, Manu and Parker however are? Lay off that crack pipe and meth cocktail Steve Francis

[aj1987]

2000 Duncan w/ Kobe = Loss
2001 Duncan w/ Kobe = Chip
2002 Duncan w/ Kobe = Chip
2003 Duncan and Kobe = Chip
2004 Duncan w/ Kobe = Chip
2005 Duncan w/ Kobe = Chip
2006 Kobe w/ Duncan = Chip
2007 Kobe w/ Duncan = Chip
2008 Kobe w/ Duncan = Chip
2009 Kobe w/ Duncan = Chip
2010 Kobe w/ Duncan = Chip
2011 Kobe w/ Duncan = Loss
2012 Kobe w/ Duncan = Loss
2013 Kobe w/ Duncan = Chip
2014 Kobe w/ Duncan = Loss

10 to 11 depending on caliber of role players. Kind of similar to pairing MJ with Hakeem. Two guys with ample skill, longevity, durability and ball IQ.

1985 Hakeem w/ MJ = Loss
1986 Hakeem w/ MJ = Loss
1987 MJ w/ Hakeem = Loss
1988 MJ w/ Hakeem = Chip
1989 MJ w/ Hakeem = Chip
1990 MJ w/ Hakeem = Chip
1991 MJ w/ Hakeem = Chip
1992 MJ w/ Hakeem = Chip
1993 MJ w/ Hakeem = Chip
1994 Hakeem w/ MJ = Chip
1995 Hakeem w/ MJ = Chip
1996 MJ w/ Hakeem = Chip
1997 MJ w/ Hakeem = Chip
1998 MJ w/ Hakeem = Chip

10 or 11 chips. Obviously depending if MJ played through the 1994 and 1995 season.
The bolded are highly questionable.

[SamuraiSWISH]

The bolded are highly questionable.
Why 2008? Duncan is an improvement over Gasol. Like I said depending on role players. 2001 and 2002 isn't debatable to me. 2013 is the one most in question ... but assuming 2013 caliber Spurs role players? Definitely beat the Heat that needed a miracle to even beat that Spurs team.

[Lebronxrings]

Kobe and Duncan aren't alpha superstars, team leaders but role players to you? And Gasol, Manu and Parker however are? Lay off that crack pipe and meth cocktail Steve Francis
Shaq led the lakers. Gasol led the lakers next.
Duncan did the spurs with robinson probably 50/50 in a weak era.Parker and manu led the spurs. Both kobe and duncan were never expected to do much since they were given role player responsibilities.

[SouBeachTalents]

Shaq led the lakers. Gasol led the lakers next.
Duncan did the spurs with robinson probably 50/50 in a weak era.Parker and manu led the spurs. Both kobe and duncan were never expected to do much since they were given role player responsibilities.

Explain the following then please. Did Manu & Parker lead the Spurs that season, or was it a 50/50 split for Duncan & Robinson? And was Duncan not asked to do much that season?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/2003.html

[SamuraiSWISH]

Explain the following then please. Did Manu & Parker lead the Spurs that season, or was it a 50/50 split for Duncan & Robinson? And was Duncan not asked to do much that season?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/2003.html
Him saying Gasol led Kobe's Lakers didn't bother you at all though ...

[Lebronxrings]

Explain the following then please. Did Manu & Parker lead the Spurs that season, or was it a 50/50 split for Duncan & Robinson? And was Duncan not asked to do much that season?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/2003.html
its more about the timing and when they can score. Obviously the spurs being more team oriented with ball movement, every player gets a great chance. Pop favorites duncan and gives him more chances to score, you know with him being a 7footer and all. Its in the clutch when it matters and when they gotta give the ball to a parker or a manu who can create shots and score the points. Duncan is more of a super role player like a danny green who excels at what he does best at.

[SouBeachTalents]

Him saying Gasol led Kobe's Lakers didn't bother you at all though ...

I know how those guys work, he'd bring up how Gasol led the team in WS, how he was the '10 Finals FMVP etc. However, there's literally no way you can spin Duncan not leading the '03 Spurs

[T_L_P]

its more about the timing and when they can score. Obviously the spurs being more team oriented with ball movement, every player gets a great chance. Pop favorites duncan and gives him more chances to score, you know with him being a 7footer and all. Its in the clutch when it matters and when they gotta give the ball to a parker or a manu who can create shots and score the points. Duncan is more of a super role player like a danny green who excels at what he does best at.

The ball didn't move that much in 03.

In fact, I remember reading that no title team relied on isolating one player more than the 03 Spurs did with Duncan, so your point about him not being able to create his own shot is pretty bad trolling.

Also, you're talking about 03 Parker in the clutch now? You do realise Pop benched Parker in the clutch for Speedy Claxton?

[scandisk_]

2002
2003
2004 - Detroit's year
2005
2006
2008
2009
2010 - 2011 champ fatigue

7 rings at least

And no doubt Mamba and Duncan's team would be rebuilt every other year.

[aj1987]

Why 2008? Duncan is an improvement over Gasol. Like I said depending on role players. 2001 and 2002 isn't debatable to me. 2013 is the one most in question ... but assuming 2013 caliber Spurs role players? Definitely beat the Heat that needed a miracle to even beat that Spurs team.
The salary caps wouldn't work. Kobe's not going to take anything less than the max. How do you think Green/Neal/Leonard are gonna go off, when Kobe's taking ~20+ shots a game? '13, the Heat take it EASILY. Also, if that was a miracle, then what about Green, Parker, and Neal? TP hit a ridiculous GW, Green was just throwing up shots and everything went it (wasn't bad defense either), and as Neal.

The '01 and '02 Lakers were just Shaq + Kobe + role-players. Those teams were nothing special outside the big 2. Those teams needed Shaq averaging ~29/13/3 to win ~56 games. The '01 Spurs wasn't a great team either, but the '02 Spurs was decent.

2008, the Celts take them. You guys are forgetting about players health and fatigue. If all your previous hypotheticals are spot on, that means the Lakers core would be running on fumes. Duncan sure is an improvement, but they aren't going to beat the Celtics with the milage they have.

EDIT: The Spurs are a force in the WC. Who's gonna replace them? Shaq started declining by '06.

[DMV2]

Depends on who Shaq has during 1999-04 years. I honestly think Shaq would have still got a 3-peat with somebody like T-Mac.

Duncan-Kobe would win 99, 03, 05 with getting all the FMVP but then Kobe will push Duncan out of town like he did to Shaq.

[AintNoSunshine]

Not sure whether people who say every year they play together are serious. That would be a similar situation as Duncan/Ginobili, but Phil isn't as good as Pop, so I'd say 2-3 if they have Parker, if not then 1 or 2.

[rmt]

its more about the timing and when they can score. Obviously the spurs being more team oriented with ball movement, every player gets a great chance. Pop favorites duncan and gives him more chances to score, you know with him being a 7footer and all. Its in the clutch when it matters and when they gotta give the ball to a parker or a manu who can create shots and score the points. Duncan is more of a super role player like a danny green who excels at what he does best at.

You obviously didn't watch the Spurs in 03 and want to re-write history. There was no emphasis on ball movement - that's been an emphasis only in the last few years. Back in 03, it was 4-down - dump the ball into Duncan, watch him score, get doubled or pass the ball out for an open 3. Parker was benched in the last quarter of the last game in the Finals. Manu was a rookie who averaged 9.4 pts in the playoffs. Duncan led the Spurs throughout the whole playoffs in points, rebounds, assists and blocks - he carried a massive load - not some role player role like you wish.

[dubeta]

Lmao Duncan relies on a team offense where he can be a contributor, in a free flowing offense.

Kobe ball would render him into a spot-up shooter. Has Duncan ever won a ring being a spot-up shooter? Though so.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Lmao Duncan relies on a team offense where he can be a contributor, in a free flowing offense.

LeBron ball would render him into a spot-up shooter. Has Duncan ever won a ring being a spot-up shooter? Though so.

Fixed.

Duncan's not playing with LeBron though, he's safe.

[SsKSpurs21]

Some of Kobe's issues around Shaquille O'Neal had to do with both his attitude (i.e., his insecurities) and also lack of overall work ethic, which Kobe did not respect.

With Duncan being a much more respectful teammate and a much harder worker than Shaq, the dynamic would work very well between Kobe Bryant and Tim Duncan. The duo could win six, seven or eight titles together.

agreed. They would learn to co-exist. I think the issue with shaq and kobe is that they both wanted the spotlight. kobe obvious jealous that shaq was getting the attention and decided that he was going to singlehandedly win games. iam sure some of that was fueled by people in kobes ear telling him hes better and shaq also throwing it in his face.

[houston]

they would be the new age magic and kareem

[tamaraw08]

They SHOULD win every year if both in their primes, but I don't think it would work out that way. Kobe's teams have always struggled in crunch time due to his hijacking the offense and refusing to let more efficient teammates shoot the ball. Would Kobe be willing to defer to the superior player in Duncan down the stretch of close playoff games? He wasn't willing to defer to the most dominant player ever in prime Shaq, so I doubt he'd be willing to do so with Duncan.

I'm not a great Kobe fan but if you watch closely, Kobe has been willingly passing the ball when it's needed, :rockon: well except the finals vs Detroit.:rolleyes:
Their most dominant playoffs was in 2001. He sat down for 14 games and observed how great the team was when they moved the ball without him.
When he came back, they went on a roll and pretty much demolished every team.
Swept the Blazers where he had 8 assists/game.
Against the heavily favored Spurs, Shaq didn't really dominate, so Kobe had to step up big time and upset them there 2 straight games. When they came back to LA, His teammates regain confidence, Kobe again shared the ball and collected 19 assists in 2 games.
Under the triangle system, I can't recall many players collecting more than 8 assist/game.