Phil Jackson propelled Jordan and O'Neal to GOAT peaks as soon as he coached them.

[Rocketswin2013]

Worth noting.

He turned Jordan into a super-focused, humbled patient, team player who was doing everything he could to win. After wanting to statistically top Magic Johnson through triple doubles and reel in an MVP while ball-hogging selfishly and forcing things in 1989.

He nonchalantly said Barkley was league MVP in 1990 just before the playoffs started (shows where he was mentally, very focused).

Chicago went from 12th offensively to 3rd after Jackson's hiring, winning a Jordan-era best, 55 games.

Jordan is pretty much peaking while destroying everyone in the postseason and is as good as he was in '91. Chicago just wasn't developed developed enough outside of him(Pippen, Grant)

Shaq absolutely quit on defense in 1999. Pathetic 1.7 BPG, 0.1 DBPM, Lakers ranked 23rd defensively. Shaq wasn't even an all-star.

Jackson is hired, and Shaq is a DPOY candidate. The Lakers rank #1 defensively and win 67 games. Of course, LA wins the title. Kobe and co. were just developed enough.

[Legends66NBA7]

Shaq absolutely quit on defense in 1999. Pathetic 1.7 BPG, 0.1 DBPM, Lakers ranked 23rd defensively. Shaq wasn't even an all-star.

There was no all-star game in 99, man.


Also, Kobe had what many consider his peak seasons when Phil coached him again. Worth noting.

[Rocketswin2013]

There was no all-star game in 99, man.


Also, Kobe had what many consider his peak seasons when Phil coached him again. Worth noting.
:oldlol:

But it does make the overall point more emphatic, doesn't it?

[Legends66NBA7]

:oldlol:

But it does make the overall point more emphatic, doesn't it?

Well, Shaq would probably make all-star teams because of his offense alone. All-star games are always about offense first.

But I do agree with the premise. I feel Jackson gets a little overlooked as coach these days.

[T_L_P]

Well yeah, he's the greatest coach in NBA history.

Shaq gets a lot of love for his peak, but people do forget how he was getting swept out of the Playoffs left and right in the late 90s.

He even admitted that he thought his 'chance' may have been over after the 99 Spurs series.

[Dragonyeuw]

Isn't it fair to say both sides benefited? I mean, clearly MJ and Shaq were transcendent forces before Phil came on-board. It's just as easy to say that Phil taught them 'how to win', as it is to say that Phil was smart to hitch his wagon to two superstars coming into the primes of their career. There are certainly worse gigs than taking on a team that has a 26 year old MJ, or a 27 yer old Shaq with an emerging Kobe right behind him. Pretty smart choice of jobs, I'd say.

And, he always managed to avoid being in a situation where he wasn't coaching top 5 players, so we'll never know how well he does with lesser talent.

[sportjames23]

Isn't it fair to say both sides benefited? I mean, clearly MJ and Shaq were transcendent forces before Phil came on-board. It's just as easy to say that Phil taught them 'how to win', as it is to say that Phil was smart to hitch his wagon to two superstars coming into the primes of their career. There are certainly worse gigs than taking on a team that has a 26 year old MJ, or a 27 yer old Shaq with an emerging Kobe right behind him. Pretty smart choice of jobs, I'd say.

And, he always managed to avoid being in a situation where he wasn't coaching top 5 players, so we'll never know how well he does with lesser talent.


This. Phil's one of my favorite NBA coaches of all-time, but he had shit to do with making MJ GOAT. MJ was already on his way. Both times Phil coached dynasties, he walked into teams already on the rise.

In fact, I'd say there's no coach in the NBA that makes a great player great. Not Phil, not Riley, not Pop, not Auerbach, no one.

You think Riley made Magic or Kareem? Did Pop turn Duncan into a great player? What about Auerbach with Russell?

[Akrazotile]

Worth noting.

He turned Jordan into a super-focused, humbled patient, team player who was doing everything he could to win. After wanting to statistically top Magic Johnson through triple doubles and reel in an MVP while ball-hogging selfishly and forcing things in 1989.

He nonchalantly said Barkley was league MVP in 1990 just before the playoffs started (shows where he was mentally, very focused).

Chicago went from 12th offensively to 3rd after Jackson's hiring, winning a Jordan-era best, 55 games.

Jordan is pretty much peaking while destroying everyone in the postseason and is as good as he was in '91. Chicago just wasn't developed developed enough outside of him(Pippen, Grant)

Shaq absolutely quit on defense in 1999. Pathetic 1.7 BPG, 0.1 DBPM, Lakers ranked 23rd defensively. Shaq wasn't even an all-star.

Jackson is hired, and Shaq is a DPOY candidate. The Lakers rank #1 defensively and win 67 games. Of course, LA wins the title. Kobe and co. were just developed enough.


http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/media/bulls/jackson2_090825.jpg
"I'm tellin ya, Mike, Scottie has the most impressive unit of anyone I've ever coached. Of course, if you were to go out and beast in these finals, it might persuade me to think differently..."

[Fallen Angel]

Shaq absolutely quit on defense in 1999. Pathetic 1.7 BPG, 0.1 DBPM, Lakers ranked 23rd defensively. Shaq wasn't even an all-star.

http://www.thecoli.com/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/mjlol.png

[sdot_thadon]

Jackson's impact on his team's is severely underrated as time goes on. People always want to marginalize him for obvious reasons, others want to overrate him for similar ones. I think he had a huge role in the successes of his rosters but not the sole factor. I will say this however Mj, Shaq, and Kobe's ring tallies are nowhere near what they are currently with out him.

[3ball]

Jackson's impact on his team's is severely underrated as time goes on. People always want to marginalize him for obvious reasons, others want to overrate him for similar ones. I think he had a huge role in the successes of his rosters but not the sole factor. I will say this however Mj, Shaq, and Kobe's ring tallies are nowhere near what they are currently with out him.
This thread title of the thread says "Phil Jackson propelled MJ to goat peaks as soon as he coached him".

Which is a lie.. Phil lost his first season coaching the Bulls in 1990 - they lost in 7 games in ECF, which is the same thing Doug Collins would've done (he lost in 6 games the year before when Pippen was much worse/not an all-star)..

Those are the facts - not this made-up bullshit you guys are trying to create 25 years later.

[sdot_thadon]

This thread title of the thread says "Phil Jackson propelled MJ to goat peaks as soon as he coached him".

Which is a lie.. Phil lost his first season coaching the Bulls in 1990 - they lost in 7 games in ECF, which is the same thing Doug Collins would've done (he lost in 6 games the year before when Pippen was much worse/not an all-star)..

Those are the facts - not this made-up bullshit you guys are trying to create 25 years later.
I'm trying to figure out why you're quoting me when you're addressing the op opinion and not mine?:coleman:

If you'd like to debate the point that none of those guys reach their current ring totals without Phil have at it, but I'm not part of whatever debate you're having in this post. As far as made up bs goes, you've by far created the most stories across the most accounts I've ever seen online bro. Kettle, meet pot.

[Bankaii]

This. Phil's one of my favorite NBA coaches of all-time, but he had shit to do with making MJ GOAT. MJ was already on his way. Both times Phil coached dynasties, he walked into teams already on the rise.

In fact, I'd say there's no coach in the NBA that makes a great player great. Not Phil, not Riley, not Pop, not Auerbach, no one.

You think Riley made Magic or Kareem? Did Pop turn Duncan into a great player? What about Auerbach with Russell?
You're a shit poster. All you thread are agenda baiting bullshit and now you say some shit like this? What was MJ winning before Phil? Without Phil's system MJ is still stat padding and doing whatever possible for his personal stats. I'm not saying he wouldn't have won, but the Bulls would not have been anywhere near as dominant without Phils leadership.

[sdot_thadon]

You're a shit poster. All you thread are agenda baiting bullshit and now you say some shit like this? What was MJ winning before Phil? Without Phil's system MJ is still stat padding and doing whatever possible for his personal stats. I'm not saying he wouldn't have won, but the Bulls would not have been anywhere near as dominant without Phils leadership.
The only coach besides Phil to ever get the ball out of MJ's hands was dean smith......

[Bankaii]

The only coach besides Phil to ever get the ball out of MJ's hands was dean smith......
And iirc MJ has high regards for him and credits him for being the players he is today.
It's ridiculous how much disrespect coaches get.

[sdot_thadon]

And iirc MJ has high regards for him and credits him for being the players he is today.
It's ridiculous how much disrespect coaches get.
Yeah its funny, guys like Red, pat, and chuck didn't get anything but respect when I was coming up. The Bulls didn't win shit until Mj bought in, Period. Nobody wants to acknowledge it though.

[Rocketswin2013]

I actually think Jordan would've won titles even without him. But I doubt he ever peaks the way he did without Jackson.

Tbh, Jordan had the career career path of Wilt Chamberlain before Jackson got there(stat-obsessed coach- killer).

O'Neal clearly didn't know what it took to win without him.

[Dragonyeuw]

I actually think Jordan would've won titles even without him. But I doubt he ever peaks the way he did without Jackson.



Most of the GOAT players have benefited from having GOAT caliber coaches. I think it's a chicken or egg thing, did the coach make the player great, or the other way around?

Jackson- MJ, Shaq, Kobe
Auerbach- Russell
Riley- Kareem, Magic,
Popovich- Duncan

That's 7/10ths of the typical top 10 GOAT list.

[GimmeThat]

he probably really enjoyed being a part of the team. And he probably always saw some plays he like being reinforced that others deemed out of the agenda.