i know its Celtic night at the hall of fame right now. but the Lakers rule the NBA

[kennethgriffin]

think about this...

the lakers have 5 titles/ 7 finals in the last 15 years

10 titles/ 16 finals in the last 35 years

and people won't shut up about how the lakers losing their touch because they havent won in 5 years




the celtics have 1 title/ 2 finals in the last 15 years

4 titles/ 7 finals in the last 35 years

and nobody ever even mentions a word about where theyre headed or who they are as a franchise



know why? because nobody cares about the celtics. the world never cared about the celtics. boston was a flair up. not consistent at all..

but you wont hear about it. because the celtics as a franchise are just as insignificant to basketball right now as theyve been for the last 20 years ( aside from a colluding fluke title )



people take notice when the lakers miss the playoffs.

the celtics missing failing is a common occurrence


this is why the lakers are the greatest franchise in nba history. and it isnt even close


http://sportsweeksportslist.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/the-boston-celtics-have-so-many-championship-banners-they-have-to-squeeze-their-similarly-numerous-retired-numbers-into-little-boxes.png


can anyone even name half of these guys without looking them up?

havlicek - 17

parish - 00

bird - 33

russell - 6

mchale - 32



this is how much i give a **** about the celtics..


but i bet you every celtic fan can name all the retired lakers numbers

thats the difference..

[kennethgriffin]

is there a single poster on ISH thats well known and a celtics fan

?

i bet this thread gets 0 hits due to having the word "celtics" in the title

theyre that uninteresting

[WayOfWade]

The Lakers do rule the NBA, but the Celtics are the better franchise. One reason for them having more titles (17>16), and the Lakers only have 11 if you count their time in LA. I know the Celtics won more in an era were there were only like 8 teams, but winning 11 times in thirteen years, even with 8 teams is like .01% (rough calculator estimate). The Lakers rely a lot on the fact that they live in Los Angeles whereas the Celtics need to rely more on front-office smarts. No offense to LA, they've had brilliant front offices too which is why they are by far the most succesful team since 1980 (10 titles since then).
In short though, yes the Lakers rule the NBA

[kennethgriffin]

The Lakers do rule the NBA, but the Celtics are the better franchise. One reason for them having more titles (17>16), and the Lakers only have 11 if you count their time in LA. I know the Celtics won more in an era were there were only like 8 teams, but winning 11 times in thirteen years, even with 8 teams is like .01% (rough calculator estimate). The Lakers rely a lot on the fact that they live in Los Angeles whereas the Celtics need to rely more on front-office smarts. No offense to LA, they've had brilliant front offices too which is why they are by far the most succesful team since 1980 (10 titles since then).
In short though, yes the Lakers rule the NBA



were*

[SouBeachTalents]

The Celtics have beaten the Lakers 9/12 times in the Finals doe

[Lebronxrings]

hows that working so far right now?

[Fudge]

And another meltdown in the books. :bowdown:

[KG215]

is there a single poster on ISH thats well known and a celtics fan

?

i bet this thread gets 0 hits due to having the word "celtics" in the title

theyre that uninteresting
The only reason your and other "Laker" fans are "well known" is because you're depressingly, creepily obsessed Kobe fanboys claiming to be Laker fans.

[ProfessorMurder]

Celtics have more championships, more HOF players, and beat the Lakers the majority of times they met in the finals... yeah LA is clearly better.

[Pushxx]

NumberSix said it best:


The problem with this is that franchises are different than players of specific teams. For franchises, the only thing that matters is championships. There are absolutely no other factors to be considered. You have to give it to Boston. They have 17. All in Boston, and more importantly, all in the NBA. They don't try to add on titles from other leagues. They're legit 17 time NBA champions.

The Los Angeles Lakers truly have 11 NBA championships. I just can't count the Minneapolis titles for a couple of reasons. First being that 2 of them aren't NBA titles. The Minneapolis Lakers have 4 NBA titles, the last of which being in 1954. A couple years later the franchise was sold, moved to LA.

If for some reason the Lakers moved to Kansas City and became the Kansas City Lakers, and 17 years later, still in KC and haven't won a single championship, how would you feel about Kansas City claiming to be 15 time NBA champions? It would be bullshit, right?

What about the Oklahoma City Thunder? Do you consider them the former champions? Of corse not. The idea is ridiculous.

Now, in the modern sports era, the Los Angeles Lakers are EASILY the greatest franchise of ANY SPORT. It's not even remotely close. Since Jerry Buss bought the team, we've been in 1/2 of all the finals and won 1/3 of the championships. That's completely ridiculous. At this point, the Yankess are the Lakers of baseball.

BUT...... All time NBA. You gotta give it to Boston. They have 17.

People don't count the Rochester Royals 1946 title towards the Kings franchise. The Pistons don't claim their 1944 and 1945 titles when they were in Fort Wayne. The Hawks don't claim their 1958 St. Louis title. The 76ers don't claim their 1955 Syracuse title. Why do the Lakers claim their 4 Minneapolis titles from the 50s? It's a little mind boggling.

It has irked me. I mean the Lakers are one of the best franchises in sports history, but just saying...nobody else does it lol and people have just accepted it.

[kennethgriffin]

The Celtics have beaten the Lakers 9/12 times in the Finals doe


7 of those 9 came in the 60's

we know the celtics owned the 60's lakers



it was basically 7-8 hall of famers vs jerry west and elgin baylor.. who cares

[kennethgriffin]

Celtics have more championships, more HOF players, and beat the Lakers the majority of times they met in the finals... yeah LA is clearly better.


celtics have less real championships

less legends

and havent been competitive for almost 30 years asside from 2-3 seasons

[kennethgriffin]

1. Kareem Abdul Jabbar - LAKERS

2. Michael Jordan

3. Bill Russell - CELTICS

4. Kobe Bryant - LAKERS

5. Magic Johnson - LAKERS

6. Tim Duncan

7. Shaquille O'neal - LAKERS

8. Larry Bird - CELTICS

9. Hakeem Olajuwon

10. Wilt Chamberlain - LAKERS

11. Lebron James

12. Oscar Robertson

13. Jerry West - LAKERS

14. Moses Malone

15. Julius Erving

16. George Mikan - LAKERS

17. Bob Pettit

18. Elgin Baylor - LAKERS

19. Karl Malone - LAKERS

20. Dirk Nowitzki

[SouBeachTalents]

1. Kareem Abdul Jabbar - LAKERS

2. Michael Jordan

3. Bill Russell - CELTICS

4. Kobe Bryant - LAKERS

5. Magic Johnson - LAKERS

6. Tim Duncan

7. Shaquille O'neal - LAKERS

8. Larry Bird - CELTICS

9. Hakeem Olajuwon

10. Wilt Chamberlain - LAKERS

11. Lebron James

12. Oscar Robertson

13. Jerry West - LAKERS

14. Moses Malone

15. Julius Erving

16. George Mikan - LAKERS

17. Bob Pettit

18. Elgin Baylor - LAKERS

19. Karl Malone - LAKERS

20. Kevin Garnett

So Malone is a Laker, but KG isn't a Celtic?

[kennethgriffin]

So Malone is a Laker, but KG isn't a Celtic?

i meant to put dirk in that spot. forgot to edit my list




title + mvp + fmvp + no collude + no ring chasing + 1st option his entire career

is better than

title + mvp + collude + ring chase + 3rd option + role player half his career

[NZStreetBaller]

celtics are literally history. without bill russells 11 rings back in the weak as era.

[BlackWhiteGreen]

Garnett who has never made a free agent move is a colluder and ring chaser? He plays for the freaking TWolves right now. No knock on Malone who never won a title and did collude/ring chase in 04 with the Lakers (and failed because of your boy)? No knock on Shaq who played for the Celtics whilst ring chasing?

If you honestly think the Lakers have a brighter future than the Celtics then you're as insane as this post suggests. The NBA moves in waves, Kenneth, and you're being left behind. 17>11

[COnDEMnED]

Garnett who has never made a free agent move is a colluder and ring chaser? He plays for the freaking TWolves right now. No knock on Malone who never won a title and did collude/ring chase in 04 with the Lakers (and failed because of your boy)? No knock on Shaq who played for the Celtics whilst ring chasing?

If you honestly think the Lakers have a brighter future than the Celtics then you're as insane as this post suggests. The NBA moves in waves, Kenneth, and you're being left behind. 17>11
Debatable. That collection of draft picks sounds impressive until you realize you couldn't even trade 6 of them for one single number 9 pick.

[BlackWhiteGreen]

Debatable. That collection of draft picks sounds impressive until you realize you couldn't even trade 6 of them for one single number 9 pick.

I'm glad Charlotte turned that down. How good do you think Brooklyn is going to be this year? How about Dallas?

Brooklyn pick will be better than the one the Lakers give to the Sixers.

[MP.Trey]

Lakers 16/31 = 51% Finals winning rate.

Celtics 17/21 = 81% Finals winning rate.

Finals winning percentage don't lie. Using your own logic against you.

[lilteapot]

Lakers 16/31 = 51% Finals winning rate.

Celtics 17/21 = 81% Finals winning rate.

Finals winning percentage don't lie. Using your own logic against you.
owned :lol

OP has cancer

[KembaWalker]

Chicago 6/6 = 100%

WHO RUN THE NBA!

[Derka]

Let the insecurity and the butthurt flow through you. :oldlol:

[MP.Trey]

Chicago 6/6 = 100%

WHO RUN THE NBA!
:bowdown:

[NZStreetBaller]

You dont need to count championships. Just look at the fanbase... LA's is huge

[KG215]

i meant to put dirk in that spot. forgot to edit my list




title + mvp + fmvp + no collude + no ring chasing + 1st option his entire career

is better than

title + mvp + collude + ring chase + 3rd option + role player half his career
:roll:

If anyone had any doubts about your stupidity and whether or not you heavily manipulate facts/information to fit your agenda, they shouldn't after this thread.

Karl Malone is a Laker? And how did Garnett "collude" and "ring chase"? For most of the time leading up to his trade to Boston he was strongly against it and wanted to stay in Minnesota, and it was a trade dumb. He didn't leave Minnesota as a free agent to join forces with Pierce and Allen. How is what Garnett did considered colluding in your eyes, but not Malone?

And role player for half his career? Are you really that f***ing stupid? He was still a star player in the league and cornerstone piece of whatever team he was on until about 2012. That's the first 17 seasons of his career. Even if you exclude his rookie season, that's still 16 straight seasons of being better than a "role player."

[Crystallas]

Thread = maximum insecurity.

[Uncle Drew]

So Malone is a Laker, but KG isn't a Celtic?
:roll:

[Uncle Drew]

Poor Kenneth keeps embarrassing himself.

[senelcoolidge]

were*

I think that would apply to the lakers too. They were a good franchise.

[KG215]

So Malone is a Laker, but KG isn't a Celtic?
And apparently KG colluded/ring chased but Malone didn't according to Griff.

:oldlol:

[Legends66NBA7]

If you honestly think the Lakers have a brighter future than the Celtics then you're as insane as this post suggests.

Not that it doesn't have to do with talent, but that also has to do with being in a weaker conference and division. The Lakers aren't making the playoffs in the West with a sub.500 record.

[ShawkFactory]

Thread backfire. Ouch

[ZMonkey11]

Here is a newsflash for you.

Nobody cares about the Lakers. They talk about the Lakers because of Kobe. Once Kobe is gone, no one will talk about how the Lakers miss the playoffs. Unless one of the young bucks become great, the Lakers will be talked about like the Celtics are talked about. As in, no one will talk about them.

[Fudge]

So Malone is a Laker, but KG isn't a Celtic?
:yaohappy:

Got eem!

Literally ran kenneth off the board lolol

[kennethgriffin]

And apparently KG colluded/ring chased but Malone didn't according to Griff.

:oldlol:

he did it at the very absolute end of his career

garnett did it in his prime to get a fake ring


both guys have 0 rings as far as i'm concerned


he refused a trade to boston unless ray allen went there first

what a tool

[kennethgriffin]

:yaohappy:

Got eem!

Literally ran kenneth off the board lolol

i dont spend all day every day here like others

[kennethgriffin]

Lakers 16/31 = 51% Finals winning rate.

Celtics 17/21 = 81% Finals winning rate.

Finals winning percentage don't lie. Using your own logic against you.


finals % is only a negative if you have a losing record

if you have a winning record then it almost looks good to have more finals appearances

[JohnnySic]

The Celtics are arguably the most popular professional sports team in history. Larry Bird is the singularly most important reason why basketball become so popular in Europe and elsewhere and arguably why it spread from being an American sport to a global phenomenon.

GTFO.

[kennethgriffin]

The Celtics are arguably the most popular professional sports team in history. Larry Bird is the singularly most important reason why basketball become so popular in Europe and elsewhere and arguably why it spread from being an American sport to a global phenomenon.

GTFO.

http://blogs-images.forbes.com/kurtbadenhausen/files/2014/10/1.jpg


forbes.com


average ticket prices


http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120806023616/theamazingworldofgumball/images/7/77/Lol_face.png

[kennethgriffin]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbadenhausen/2015/01/21/average-nba-team-worth-record-1-1-billion-2/




Lakers Top 2015 List Of NBA's Most Valuable Teams; Average Franchise Is Now Worth Record $1.1 Billion



What do you get when you combine a massive new $24 billion television contract, a nearly six-year bull market in equities creating tremendous wealth, and cheap credit? You get a massive rise in sports franchise values, with the NBA serving as ground zero for the current boom. The average NBA team is now worth $1.1 billion, 74% more than last year. It is the biggest one-year gain since Forbes began valuing teams in the four major U.S. sports leagues in 1998.

In October the league inked expanded national media deals with Walt Disney DIS +1.92% (ESPN /ABC) and Time Warner TWX +0.00% (TNT) that are worth $2.66 billion a year, nearly three times the current contracts. They will begin with the 2016-17 season. The NBA has bucked the overall decline in ratings across TV with viewership for regular season games up 26% since the 2002-03 season.

With live sports proving one of the few DVR-proof plays (people watch the commercials), local rights deals are surging, too. The Atlanta Hawks, Miami Heat and Sacramento Kings all signed new local TV deals in the last six months with rights fees roughly triple their prior agreements.

There are now 11 NBA teams worth at least $1 billion, by our count, compared to three a year ago. The Los Angeles Lakers lead the way at $2.6 billion, up 93% over last year.



:roll:

[lilteapot]

OP why are you pretending to be a Laker fan?

[kennethgriffin]

OP why are you pretending to be a Laker fan?


ive been a laker fan for almost 20 years

:oldlol:


just because it started because i liked kobe as a player doesnt change the fact that i've cheered for LA


i'm sure 99% of sports fans start liking a team because of a specific player influencing them


and i'l still like them after kobes gone. but not nearly as much.

kobe transcends the sports world. hes bigger than the game of basketball

can you blame me?

[ISHGoat]

ive been a laker fan for almost 20 years

:oldlol:


just because it started because i liked kobe as a player doesnt change the fact that i've cheered for LA


i'm sure 99% of sports fans start liking a team because of a specific player influencing them


and i'l still like them after kobes gone. but not nearly as much.

kobe transcends the sports world. hes bigger than the game of basketball

can you blame me?

No, the blame lies on your mom for not swallowing you.

[ciaguy23]

we took 20 years off and the lakers still didnt catch us......Try having 2 of your 1st round picks/foundational pieces die within a 6 year span of each other and then come back and talk.

[pauk]

1. Kareem Abdul Jabbar - LAKERS

2. Michael Jordan

3. Bill Russell - CELTICS

4. Kobe Bryant - LAKERS

5. Magic Johnson - LAKERS

6. Tim Duncan

7. Shaquille O'neal - LAKERS

8. Larry Bird - CELTICS

9. Hakeem Olajuwon

10. Wilt Chamberlain - LAKERS

11. Lebron James

12. Oscar Robertson

13. Jerry West - LAKERS

14. Moses Malone

15. Julius Erving

16. George Mikan - LAKERS

17. Bob Pettit

18. Elgin Baylor - LAKERS

19. Karl Malone - LAKERS

20. Dirk Nowitzki

Dat ranking...

http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/hdch.gif

[kennethgriffin]

we took 20 years off and the lakers still didnt catch us......Try having 2 of your 1st round picks/foundational pieces die within a 6 year span of each other and then come back and talk.

We? You mean theres a celtics fan on ish?


:roll:

[Hey Yo]

he did it at the very absolute end of his career

garnett did it in his prime to get a fake ring


both guys have 0 rings as far as i'm concerned


he refused a trade to boston unless ray allen went there first

what a tool
and Kobe colluded with LA right before the draft in order to have a chance at getting fake rings.

[Mr. Jabbar]

as a fan of the king this thread doesn't interest me.

#kang

[kennethgriffin]

and Kobe colluded with LA right before the draft in order to have a chance at getting fake rings.



yeah because this roster just screamed excitement

van exel
jones
campbell
kersey
scott
blount
rooks
horry
mccloud
ceballos
kleine
krystkowiak




shaq didnt choose LA till july 18th 1996

kobe was traded on july 11th 1996

and drafted on june 26th 1996


so if kobe was telling teams that he wanted to be a laker before draft night... it was almost a month before shaq had anything to do with the team

and if kobe was telling the hornets that he wanted to be a laker right before he was traded.. that would have been more than a week before shaq had anything to do with the team



collude? ring chase? lol


gtfo

[Hey Yo]

"On June 26, draft day, they traded starting center Vlade Divac to Charlotte, giving them enough room to offer O'Neal a seven-year, $95-million contract--only to see the Magic top it.

Discouraged and despairing of their chances, the Lakers on Tuesday dispatched Anthony Peeler and George Lynch to Vancouver, allowing them to offer $120 million, which turned out to be the winner."

Kobe's camp knew Shaq wanted to be in LA. Especially since Shaq was get mad disrespect from fans and media in Orlando.

Colluded to ring chase with the 2nd most successful NBA franchise.

[Hey Yo]

and if kobe was telling the hornets that he wanted to be a laker right before he was traded.. that would have been more than a week before shaq had anything to do with the team
All teams were notified that it was LA for Kobe only.

[SugarHill]

Malone is a Laker!

[kennethgriffin]

"On June 26, draft day, they traded starting center Vlade Divac to Charlotte, giving them enough room to offer O'Neal a seven-year, $95-million contract--only to see the Magic top it.

Discouraged and despairing of their chances, the Lakers on Tuesday dispatched Anthony Peeler and George Lynch to Vancouver, allowing them to offer $120 million, which turned out to be the winner."

Kobe's camp knew Shaq wanted to be in LA. Especially since Shaq was get mad disrespect from fans and media in Orlando.

Colluded to ring chase with the 2nd most successful NBA franchise.

a 17 year old draft prospect without top 10 pick projection sure does have allot of pull

he orchestrated every laker move during the summer of 96

he got shaq to LA

got himself traded for vlade

and single handedly put together the future 3peat nba champion lakers dynasty






some say kobe was less than a god. but more than a man.


what say you!?






what say you!!

[KembaWalker]

Kobe GM of the year?

[TheBigVeto]

All Lakers' titles after David Stern took office were rigged dawg.

Horrible thread.

OP is a moron.

[ciaguy23]

We? You mean theres a celtics fan on ish?


:roll:

i know 98% of people on here are kobe and lebron dick riders so it may be hard to see

[kennethgriffin]

i know 98% of people on here are kobe and lebron dick riders so it may be hard to see


isnt this my OP argument in a nutshell?

[monkeypox]

The Lakers do rule the NBA, but the Celtics are the better franchise. One reason for them having more titles (17>16), and the Lakers only have 11 if you count their time in LA. I know the Celtics won more in an era were there were only like 8 teams, but winning 11 times in thirteen years, even with 8 teams is like .01% (rough calculator estimate). The Lakers rely a lot on the fact that they live in Los Angeles whereas the Celtics need to rely more on front-office smarts. No offense to LA, they've had brilliant front offices too which is why they are by far the most succesful team since 1980 (10 titles since then).
In short though, yes the Lakers rule the NBA

You realize that the original Celtics moved to LA and are the Clippers right? The team that's in Boston right now were the Buffalo Braves. They secretly swapped names to avoid the shame that one of their premier teams wanted out of Boston so bad. Many pay checks for those retired Celtics greats were signed by Donald Sterling, who inherited the responsibility after he bought the San Diego Clippers. So it's not like the Celtics have an unbroken lineage.

[kennethgriffin]

You realize that the original Celtics moved to LA and are the Clippers right? The team that's in Boston right now were the Buffalo Braves. They secretly swapped names to avoid the shame that one of their premier teams wanted out of Boston so bad. Many pay checks for those retired Celtics greats were signed by Donald Sterling, who inherited the responsibility after he bought the San Diego Clippers. So it's not like the Celtics have an unbroken lineage.



this aint right at all.... its like the ottawa senators claiming titles won by a different franchise with the same name back in the 1920's or some shit


so the celtics of today are claiming titles won by the clippers franchise? ( aka the original celtics )

thats 100 times worse than claiming titles from your last franchise location ( Minneapolis )... atleast theyre still the same franchise



so the real ranking is

#1 - Lakers 16 titles
#2 - Clippers 13 titles ( old celtics )
#3 - Chicago 6 titles
#4 - Spurs 4 titles
#4 - Celtics 4 titles ( old Buffalo Braves )
#6 - Sixers 3 titles
#6 - Pistons 3 titles
#6 - Warriors 3 titles
#9 - Knicks 2 titles
#9 - Houston 2 titles
#9 - Miami 2 titles

[KG215]

he did it at the very absolute end of his career

garnett did it in his prime to get a fake ring


both guys have 0 rings as far as i'm concerned


he refused a trade to boston unless ray allen went there first

what a tool
:oldlol:

You truly do have a warped, essentially fabricated sense of reality.

Anyone can just as easily cherrypick certain facts, info, stats, etc. to build an argument as to why a player has a "fake" ring. You do that then use it to fabricate a warped view of those facts to make up your own version of the truth/reality.

[kennethgriffin]

:oldlol:

You truly do have a warped, essentially fabricated sense of reality.

Anyone can just as easily cherrypick certain facts, info, stats, etc. to build an argument as to why a player has a "fake" ring. You do that then use it to fabricate a warped view of those facts to make up your own version of the truth/reality.


man if you honestly dont accept the fact that garnett ring chased and colluded with ray allen/ kevin mchale to create a super team in boston

then youre a sh*t poster and a blind stan

go f*ck yourself


we're on a different topic anyway. the Los Angeles Celtics and their 13 titles compared to the Boston Clippers and their 4 titles

[Derka]

You realize that the original Celtics moved to LA and are the Clippers right? The team that's in Boston right now were the Buffalo Braves. They secretly swapped names to avoid the shame that one of their premier teams wanted out of Boston so bad. Many pay checks for those retired Celtics greats were signed by Donald Sterling, who inherited the responsibility after he bought the San Diego Clippers. So it's not like the Celtics have an unbroken lineage.

The Celtics have an unbroken lineage, but you're certainly not the first dingus to try putting this horseshit out as fact.

Buffalo sucked and Irv Levin wanted a team in his native state, so he and John Brown switched ownerships. Nothing more. Irv bought the shitty Braves and that team became the Clippers. The Celtics have been Boston's team since 1946 without interruption. Anything said contrary to that is a distortion of the truth.

[kennethgriffin]

The Celtics have an unbroken lineage, but you're certainly not the first dingus to try putting this horseshit out as fact.

Buffalo sucked and Irv Levin wanted a team in his native state, so he and John Brown switched ownerships. Nothing more. Irv bought the shitty Braves and that team became the Clippers. The Celtics have been Boston's team since 1946 without interruption. Anything said contrary to that is a distortion of the truth.


lol man your franchise just got torn apart. you should be cheering for the clippers you f*cking f*ggot


:oldlol:

[Derka]

lol man your franchise just got torn apart. you should be cheering for the clippers you f*cking f*ggot

:oldlol:

I honestly feel terrible for you that you're reduced to spending your time on this Earth in this manner. Life must be truly unbearable when you derive your worth from maintaining a fraudulent gimmick persona on an internet message board. I don't know what's happened in your life to send you down this path, but I hope things get better for you and you find a more productive use for your time in the near future.

[KG215]

man if you honestly dont accept the fact that garnett ring chased and colluded with ray allen/ kevin mchale to create a super team in boston
If you can actually show me any kind of, well, anything that could make me believe KG colluded, when he got traded at the back end of his prime, then I might semi-occasionally consider you an average poster instead of the worst poster on ISH.


then youre a sh*t poster and a blind stan

go f*ck yourself
:oldlol:

Gotta love it when the biggest and blindest fanboys on a website chocked full of delusional, deliriously obsessed fanboys calls you a "blind stan."


we're on a different topic anyway. the Los Angeles Celtics and their 13 titles compared to the Boston Clippers and their 4 titles
What about the Los Angeles Lakers 11 titles compared to the Minneapolis Lakers 5 titles?