True or False: Michael Jordan would have lost to these men in the Finals

[JerrySeinfeld]

http://www.photofile.com/Original/AA/SB/aasb183.jpg

http://warriorsworld.bayareaballllc1.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/8638587.jpg

http://www.sportstalkflorida.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Steve-Kerr.jpg

assuming he has a supporting cast of thompson/mozgov/shump/delly

[SouBeachTalents]

Yes, you give Jordan the Cavs roster without Kyrie/Love and he loses the Finals as well

[JerrySeinfeld]

Yes, you give Jordan the Cavs roster without Kyrie/Love and he loses the Finals as well

I'm guessing you're too young to have even watched Kobe play, let alone Michael.

The greats didn't lose 4/6 championship series in the past.

[kennethgriffin]

Yes, you give Jordan the Cavs roster without Kyrie/Love and he loses the Finals as well

you do realize that had lebron shot even just 37% beyond 5 feet. the cavs probly would have won the title



but he shot 27%... and thats all she wrote

[kennethgriffin]

when are lebron fans gonna realize just how much their hero left on the table.


lebron had top 10 all time potential

he should have won in 2011 ( quit )

he should have won in 2014 ( i dont care what people say. a role player as finals mvp, 40 year old tim duncan? common... kobe beat way better versions of timmy 4 times before with less of a team than the colluders )

and he should have won in 2015 ( like i said... if he shoots even a half a**'d percentage the cavs win )



at most he can say 2007 he had no chance..



and 2013 he gave away all prestige by letting ray allen make the season saving shot instead of making it himself


if he just:

a) trys in 2011
B) makes the shot in 2013
c) doesnt let a rookie get in his head in 2014
d) shoots better than a blind man in 2015


hes looking at 5 rings in 6 nba finals, 4 finals mvps and a top 3-4 all time career



but he f*cked it all up

[toxicxr6]

I'm guessing you're too young to have even watched Kobe play, let alone Michael.

The greats didn't lose 4/6 championship series in the past.


Kobe has never won without having a teir one dominant big on his team.. With that team Kobe wouldn't even make the finals.. Not a chance in hell. I don't even like lebron but no way Kobe carries that team as far as him

[MoBe1Kanobi]

Kobe has never won without having a teir one dominant big on his team.. With that team Kobe wouldn't even make the finals.. Not a chance in hell. I don't even like lebron but no way Kobe carries that team as far as him

Yea and kobe never played with a tier 1 dominant wing (mo will, dwade, bosh/love(inside&out), uncle drew, jr smith, shump) EVER in his career

He had caron butler (which he vastly improved his entire game under kobe and boosted his career), smush, stone feet dfish, luke walton, devean george :facepalm :facepalm

At best he had LO who was a forever passive and bad 2nd option but finally thrived as a co 2nd option playmaker with pau both behind kobe

While LeXcuse is out here playing with top 3 shooting guards ever in their prime and the GOAT ballhandler and big money time #1 option kyrie (see spurs this yr, game 1 at GS) and then finds the time to make a forgotten 24 & 14 level player absolutely obsolete :applause:

Sometimes i wonder

Oh how fun it is to be LeXcuse

[3ball]

Let's not forget an important point - the Warriors 2 best players (Curry, Klay) had easy matchups in the 2015 Finals - they easily outplayed Delladova, Shumpert, and JR Smith.. But both would be significantly outplayed by MJ... This is a big difference - against Lebron's team, those guys go off.. But against MJ, it's a completely different dynamic where those guys are now getting significantly outplayed by Jordan.

Make no mistake - Jordan would've guarded Curry A LOT.

A lot of people think Pippen guarded PG's - this is false - the only time Pippen was the primary defender on a PG was in the 1998 Eastern Conference Finals when he guarded the slowest PG in the league - Mark Jackson - that's the ONLY time Pippen was ever the primary defender on a PG.

Otoh, Jordan ALWAYS guarded the other team's best backcourt player, whether it was the PG or SG.. He was frequently the PRIMARY DEFENDER on Isiah Thomas (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q53GLDrhMkY), Kevin Johnson (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6K2rBgOqGCw), Rod Strickland (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3JqY3CECW8), Gary Payton (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meL62CUehuw), John Stockton, etc.

So again - Curry and Klay got to run roughshod over the Cavs backcourt - but against MJ's team, they would both get significantly outplayed and intimidated by MJ.. It would be a completely different series... Of course, the backcourt mismatch doesn't even address the elephant in the room - with Blatt giving MJ the same clearouts that Lebron got, MJ would shoot well over 50% for the series, like he did against Phoenix in 1993, when he faced incessant double-teaming.

[Jasper]

Jerry is always funny...

[ISHGoat]

Replace mozgov with prime pau gasol and its a damn near sweep.

Replace shumpert with pippen and they sweet for sure.

Prime shaq? ***** please

[GrapeApe]

First 3-peat Jordan MIGHT win. If he could get one more game and get it to a game 7 I like his chances.

Second 3-peat Jordan, no chance.

[dubeta]

First 3-peat Jordan MIGHT win. If he could get one more game and get it to a game 7 I like his chances.

Second 3-peat Jordan, no chance.

What do you mean 'one more game'? You're assuming Jordan could win 2 games in the first place, which is a false assumption, he would need to average 42/12/8 like LeBron did, which Jordan is incapable of.


I hate talking bad about Jordan, but here comes a limit where he just isnt good enough to win a game let alone the 2 Lebron won

[GrapeApe]

What do you mean 'one more game'? You're assuming Jordan could win 2 games in the first place, which is a false assumption, he would need to average 42/12/8 like LeBron did, which Jordan is incapable of.


I hate talking bad about Jordan, but here comes a limit where he just isnt good enough to win a game let alone the 2 Lebron won

You do realize first 3-peat Jordan is peak Jordan, the greatest version of the greatest player ever. There has literally never been a player to set foot on a basketball court better than that version of Jordan (sorry Wilt stans). That version of Jordan isn't incapable of ANYTHING that Lebron can do.

I also love how you conveniently omit Lebron's fg%.

[JT123]

What do you mean 'one more game'? You're assuming Jordan could win 2 games in the first place, which is a false assumption, he would need to average 42/12/8 like LeBron did, which Jordan is incapable of.


I hate talking bad about Jordan, but here comes a limit where he just isnt good enough to win a game let alone the 2 Lebron won
I am a HUGE Jordan stan, but you are absolutely right. :(
Truth is MJ would never even get close to the Finals with last season's Cavs. We know this because of his pathetic 1-9 playoff record without a quality second option to run an optimal offense.

[dubeta]

You do realize first 3-peat Jordan is peak Jordan, the greatest version of the greatest player ever. There has literally never been a player to set foot on a basketball court better than that version of Jordan (sorry Wilt stans). That version of Jordan isn't incapable of ANYTHING that Lebron can do.

I also love how you conveniently omit Lebron's fg%.

Define 'greatest', greatest scorer ever? Arguably top 5 for sure


But how exactly will Jordan replacate LeBrons 12 rebounds and 9 assists?


Along with the Fact that LeBron scored 123 points in the first 4 games, the most in Finals history


The most Jordan ever averaged in the Finals is 40, then what? He scores the same as LeBron, with half the rebounds and assists

Cavs get swept

[SamuraiSWISH]

First 3 peat, prime / peak MJ could. Absolutely, proof is in the numbers and result. He closes out game 1, or game 5. And he doesn't play as poorly as LeBron did in game 4 at home. 2nd 3 peat MJ probably couldn't. Just didn't have the wind, and legs by that point.

[GrapeApe]

Define 'greatest', greatest scorer ever? Arguably top 5 for sure


But how exactly will Jordan replacate LeBrons 12 rebounds and 9 assists?


Along with the Fact that LeBron scored 123 points in the first 4 games, the most in Finals history


The most Jordan ever averaged in the Finals is 40, then what? He scores the same as LeBron, with half the rebounds and assists

Cavs get swept

You don't get it. First 3-peat Jordan was a better player than 2015 Lebron. He wouldn't have to duplicate Lebron's numbers, especially if he played more efficiently. This might be a difficult concept for you to understand, but putting up big numbers doesn't necessarily mean playing well. There's a difference.

[red1]

MJ would have a slight chance the same way lbj did. That said, having the goat on your team wont stop the rest of the players on the team from wearing out. Golden state got better with their depth as the series went on and the same thing would happen - MJ or no MJ.

[NZStreetBaller]

Yes MJ would have won. his stats wouldve looked like his 1991 finals stats. there is no way igoudala would slow MJ down. and for those games where is was close at the end MJ would've risen to the occasion being as clutch as he was.

Jordan in 6. no one ever took MJ to a game 7 in the finals

[Akrazotile]

If MJ had this Cavs team, without Pippen?

There's literally only a 1/9 chance he even gets past the Bulls in the second round.

[red1]

Yes MJ would have won. his stats wouldve looked like his 1991 finals stats. there is no way igoudala would slow MJ down. and for those games where is was close at the end MJ would've risen to the occasion being as clutch as he was.

Jordan in 6. no one ever took MJ to a game 7 in the finals
then again jordan never played with zero depth and with delly as his 2nd option in the finals either. saying that jordan would have for sure is pure foolishness

[FreezingTsmoove]

I only saw one man

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

If MJ averaging 41ppg on great efficiency wasn't enough to convince you he'd stand a chance, the fact he could hit a jumper outside of 3 feet should have done so.

[GrapeApe]

If MJ had this Cavs team, without Pippen?

There's literally only a 1/9 chance he even gets past the Bulls in the second round.

I've never understood the 1/9 thing as some kind of knock against Jordan. He was an underdog in every one of those playoff series'. People look at the numbers and assume that 80's Jordan was prime Jordan, but the fact is Jordan was a much better player from 1990-1993.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

87-93 MJ wins the chip.

Lets not forget Cavs were a retarded Bran one legged leaning 30ft fadeaway over Iggy away from going up 3-0. And this is with Bran shooting like dogsht and getting shut down by Iggy.

87-93 MJ is far better than Bran, offensively and defensively. His midrange game would open things up, his superior slashing, motor, defense, offensive rebounding, playmaking when needed etc. Cavs were mainly in the series because of their great defense from Moz/TT/Delly/Shump and team rebounding not their offense.

96-98 MJ would take them to 7 games but lose due to the Warriors stacked defense.

[34-24 Footwork]

If MJ averaging 41ppg on great efficiency wasn't enough to convince you he'd stand a chance, the fact he could hit a jumper outside of 3 feet should have done so.

Underrated, cold blooded response :lol

[dubeta]

Winning 1 game is the absolute limit for MJ.


If you guys disagree with the statement, answer how MJ will replicate 41/12/9

[34-24 Footwork]

if you wanna go by pure numbers/pattern analysis, if Kyrie Irving got ISO'd all game/series and had the shot attempts that Lebron had, Cavs would've had a chance in the 2015 finals and they have a chance next year.

Kyrie series numbers for the finals: 45ppg/5ast/5reb/ 46%/41%/90%

Irving's assist numbers low because lebron would be delegated to a spot of shooter :lol :lol

[GrapeApe]

Winning 1 game is the absolute limit for MJ.


If you guys disagree with the statement, answer how MJ will replicate 41/12/9

Since you either didn't read or ignored my other post addressing this, Jordan wouldn't need to duplicate those numbers. He'd just need to play better basketball, which prime Jordan is more than capable of doing. Gaudy numbers =/= playing well or playing efficiently. Again, prime Jordan was a better player than 2015 Lebron. You're also assuming everything else happens EXACTLY the same which is a logical fallacy.

For the record I only said Jordan MIGHT win the series. I never said it was an absolute certainty.

[pauk]

Go look at the playoff outcome of any/all jordan years where he had an equivalent lebron-cavs 2015 finals or 2007 finals supporting cast and there is your answer.... if you are a lebron cynic/jordan stan then i suggest you dont look that up, you will be disappointed and/or even start wonder what lebron would have done with jordans benovelent casts instead....

[Iam]

Since you either didn't read or ignored my other post addressing this, Jordan wouldn't need to duplicate those numbers. He'd just need to play better basketball, which prime Jordan is more than capable of doing. Gaudy numbers =/= playing well or playing efficiently. Again, prime Jordan was a better player than 2015 Lebron. You're also assuming everything else happens EXACTLY the same which is a logical fallacy.

For the record I only said Jordan MIGHT win the series. I never said it was an absolute certainty.

Lol, don't feed a troll, the only statement of substance that matters besides what most people who aren't trolls or stans already know is confirmed by the NBA itself-

"By acclamation, Michael Jordan is the greatest basketball player of all time." - http://www.nba.com/history/players/jordan_bio.html

So let them live in their own delusions lol

[dubeta]

Lol, don't feed a troll, the only statement of substance that matters besides what most people who aren't trolls or stans already know is confirmed by the NBA itself-

"By acclamation, Michael Jordan is the greatest basketball player of all time." - http://www.nba.com/history/players/jordan_bio.html

So let them live in their own delusions lol

You know that was written before LeBron is in the league? :oldlol:


Are you trolling?


If a bring up Dr. J is the GOAT article from the 80's, does that mean he beats the Warriors as well??



Face it 1 game max for MJ, and he sure as hell doesnt average more than 33-34 points on 47%

[NZStreetBaller]

The 2015 finals cavs team is massively underrated. delly mozgov and thristian thompson played massively even though none of them are all stars. kyrie even played well when he played.

if they were really that bad they would not have won 2 games.
one of the big factors was igoudalas impact and his defense on lebron.
MJ would walk all over him.

[Iam]

You know that was written before LeBron is in the league? :oldlol:


Are you trolling?


If a bring up Dr. J is the GOAT article from the 80's, does that mean he beats the Warriors as well??



Face it 1 game max for MJ, and he sure as hell doesnt average more than 33-34 points on 47%

All you have is mere conjecture which is worth nothing. No other player is listed as the GOAT by general consensus, or the NBA itself besides MJ which actually holds weight.

Please let me know when they remove goat from MJ and add greatest of all time next to Lebrons bio:lol

Until then :roll:

[AnaheimLakers24]

Kobe and jordan would thrive and win in 6 games each

[3ball]

Go look at the playoff outcome of any/all jordan years where he had an equivalent lebron-cavs 2015 finals or 2007 finals supporting cast and there is your answer....


Go look at the competition faced by Lebron in 2007 and 2015 to make the Finals and there's your answer.

Lebron's 2007 and 2015 Finals appearances were due to FAR weaker in-conference competition than Kobe, Magic, Bird, Duncan, or MJ ever faced..

Infact, Lebron has faced BY FAR the weakest in-conference competition of literally anyone that's ever played the game..

[JT123]

Go look at the competition faced by Lebron in 2007 and 2015 to make the Finals and there's your answer.

Lebron's 2007 and 2015 Finals appearances were due to FAR weaker in-conference competition than Kobe, Magic, Bird, Duncan, or MJ ever faced..

Infact, Lebron has faced BY FAR the weakest in-conference competition of literally anyone that's ever played the game..
Swept a 60 win team with 4 all stars. Something Jordan NEVER did. :lol

[Iam]

Go look at the competition faced by Lebron in 2007 and 2015 to make the Finals and there's your answer.

Lebron's 2007 and 2015 Finals appearances were due to FAR weaker in-conference competition than Kobe, Magic, Bird, Duncan, or MJ ever faced..

Infact, Lebron has faced BY FAR the weakest in-conference competition of literally anyone that's ever played the game..

Nuff said.:pimp:

http://s12.postimg.org/fiwmzsvn1/CIu6g_DI.jpg

[3ball]

.
When Lebron caught it on the elbow, all he saw was open space because shooters on weakside drew defenders away from strongside - yet he only averaged 36 ppg on 39%:


http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/7-06-2015/uAh_p8.gif



Otoh, when MJ caught the ball on the elbow, all he saw was bodies - no one was spacing the weakside so all 10 players were bunched up on strongside or in the paint, yet he still averaged 36 ppg on 53% in 1991-1993 Finals:


http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/7-30-2015/jkrR_v.gif

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/7-13-2015/kZeK3Z.gif

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/9-13-2015/1Y-xzB.gif

http://i.imgur.com/kAsDnlC.gif

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/8-06-2015/yu7DqT.gif

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/9-11-2015/4zBlRb.gif

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/7-08-2015/YLL71A.gif

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/7-15-2015/Gqsz_a.gif


Lebron has shooters spacing the weakside to take defenders away from the strongside, whereas MJ didn't get weakside spacing, so all 10 players were bunched up on the strongside.
.

[Hey Yo]

Yes MJ would have won. his stats wouldve looked like his 1991 finals stats. there is no way igoudala would slow MJ down. and for those games where is was close at the end MJ would've risen to the occasion being as clutch as he was.

Jordan in 6. no one ever took MJ to a game 7 in the finals
MJ wouldn't have put those 1991 numbers if that was his 5th straight Finals appearance...that was against the best offensive and defensive team in the league.

Iggy wouldn't be facing 5th straight Finals and 4th straight postseason leading his team in MP, points, rebounds, assists and steals Jordan.

Waaaaaaaaaaaay different situations, brah.

[Hey Yo]

Hey 3ball

Where's those mid-range set shots and jump shot gifs from Magic....the elite mid-range shooter??

[3ball]

MJ wouldn't have put those 1991 numbers if that was his 5th straight Finals appearance...that was against the best offensive and defensive team in the league.

Iggy wouldn't be facing 5th straight Finals and 4th straight postseason leading his team in MP, points, rebounds, assists and steals Jordan.

Waaaaaaaaaaaay different situations, brah.
Right, Iggy would be facing a guy with FAR better stats and production than Lebron:


Playoffs Thru Age 30:

Jordan: 34.7 PPG, 6.7 RPG, 6.6 APG, 2.3 SPG, 1.0 BLK, 25.4 FGA, 50.1 FG%, 29.6 PER
Lebron: 28.2 PPG, 8.8 RPG, 6.7 APG, 1.7 SPG, 0.9 BLK, 20.8 FGA, 47.3 FG%, 27.4 PER


Finals Thru Age 30:

Jordan: 36.3 PPG, 6.6 RPG, 7.9 APG, 2.0 SPG, 0.76 BPG, 52.6% FG, 40.7% 3 PT
Lebron: 26.4 PPG, 9.6 RPG, 6.9 APG, 1.8 SPG, 0.54 BPG, 44.6 FG%, 31.9% 3 PT


Source: basketball-reference.com



4th Quarter Scoring:


MJ 1997 Playoffs: 9.6
MJ 1998 Playoffs (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4): 9.0

MJ 1993 Finals: 10.7
MJ 1997 Finals: 10.4
MJ 1998 Finals: 10.3

FYI: MJ 1988 Regular Season (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=380784): 12.1


Lebron 2013 Playoffs: 7.4
Lebron 2014 Playoffs: 5.8

Lebron 2011 Finals: 2.2
Lebron 2014 Finals: 3.6
.

[MoBe1Kanobi]

Inside hoops forum is really a small online community of circlejerkers

[MoBe1Kanobi]

Yea and kobe never played with a tier 1 dominant wing (mo will, dwade, bosh/love(inside&out), uncle drew, jr smith, shump) EVER in his career

He had caron butler (which he vastly improved his entire game under kobe and boosted his career), smush, stone feet dfish, luke walton, devean george :facepalm :facepalm

At best he had LO who was a forever passive and bad 2nd option but finally thrived as a co 2nd option playmaker with pau both behind kobe

While LeXcuse is out here playing with top 3 shooting guards ever in their prime and the GOAT ballhandler and big money time #1 option kyrie (see spurs this yr, game 1 at GS) and then finds the time to make a forgotten 24 & 14 level player absolutely obsolete :applause:

Sometimes i wonder

Oh how fun it is to be LeXcuse

..

[MoBe1Kanobi]

Yea and kobe never played with a tier 1 dominant wing (mo will, dwade, bosh/love(inside&out), uncle drew, jr smith, shump) EVER in his career

He had caron butler (which he vastly improved his entire game under kobe and boosted his career), smush, stone feet dfish, luke walton, devean george :facepalm :facepalm

At best he had LO who was a forever passive and bad 2nd option but finally thrived as a co 2nd option playmaker with pau both behind kobe

While LeXcuse is out here playing with top 3 shooting guards ever in their prime and the GOAT ballhandler and big money time #1 option kyrie (see spurs this yr, game 1 at GS) and then finds the time to make a forgotten 24 & 14 level player absolutely obsolete :applause:

Sometimes i wonder

Oh how fun it is to be LeXcuse
..

[MoBe1Kanobi]

Yea and kobe never played with a tier 1 dominant wing (mo will, dwade, bosh/love(inside&out), uncle drew, jr smith, shump) EVER in his career

He had caron butler (which he vastly improved his entire game under kobe and boosted his career), smush, stone feet dfish, luke walton, devean george :facepalm :facepalm

At best he had LO who was a forever passive and bad 2nd option but finally thrived as a co 2nd option playmaker with pau both behind kobe

While LeXcuse is out here playing with top 3 shooting guards ever in their prime and the GOAT ballhandler and big money time #1 option kyrie (see spurs this yr, game 1 at GS) and then finds the time to make a forgotten 24 & 14 level player absolutely obsolete :applause:

Sometimes i wonder

Oh how fun it is to be LeXcuse

..

[Hey Yo]

Right, Iggy would be facing a guy with FAR better stats and production than Lebron:


Playoffs Thru Age 30:

Jordan: 34.7 PPG, 6.7 RPG, 6.6 APG, 2.3 SPG, 1.0 BLK, 25.4 FGA, 50.1 FG%, 29.6 PER
Lebron: 28.2 PPG, 8.8 RPG, 6.7 APG, 1.7 SPG, 0.9 BLK, 20.8 FGA, 47.3 FG%, 27.4 PER


Finals Thru Age 30:

Jordan: 36.3 PPG, 6.6 RPG, 7.9 APG, 2.0 SPG, 0.76 BPG, 52.6% FG, 40.7% 3 PT
Lebron: 26.4 PPG, 9.6 RPG, 6.9 APG, 1.8 SPG, 0.54 BPG, 44.6 FG%, 31.9% 3 PT


Source: basketball-reference.com



4th Quarter Scoring:


MJ 1997 Playoffs: 9.6
MJ 1998 Playoffs (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4): 9.0

MJ 1993 Finals: 10.7
MJ 1997 Finals: 10.4
MJ 1998 Finals: 10.3

FYI: MJ 1988 Regular Season (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=380784): 12.1


Lebron 2013 Playoffs: 7.4
Lebron 2014 Playoffs: 5.8

Lebron 2011 Finals: 2.2
Lebron 2014 Finals: 3.6
.
The above were not MJ's numbers from his 5th straight Finals appearance.

In fact, there are no 5th straight finals stats for MJ because he quit (while under contract) before trying to get to 4 straight.....twice!


btw...where those Magic Johnson gifs?????

[ralph_i_el]

This warriors squad was one of the best teams of all time. Are there really people who think MJ would have won with this cavs squad minus Love and Kyrie?


Love and Kyrie are the Cavs two best shooters. 2nd and 3rd options. They were replaced by a point guard who can't handle the ball at an NBA level, and a PF who can't shoot to save his life.

The only shot in hell the Cavs had at winning was to slow the game down as much as possible. When playing a team with a huge talent advantage, having less possessions will make it more likely that the weaker team steals the game.

So LeBron gets to the finals, loses his best teammates, then plays a style of ball that he didn't play all season just to have a shot at winning any games. I agree that MJ or Kobe would have done better taking ISO shots late in the shot clock to try and slow the game down
But what's the point of jumping all over LeBron (a pass-first player) when he was playing without anyone worth passing to? :confusedshrug:


The real thing people should be talking about is how we got robbed of what could have potentially been the most entertaining finals in recent memory. The second half of the season, the Cavs were the best squad in the league, playing an up-tempo offense that was blowing teams away. It would have been amazing to watch them play the warriors.

[3ball]

When Lebron caught it on the elbow, all he saw was open space because shooters on weakside drew defenders away from strongside - yet he only averaged 36 ppg on 39%:


http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/7-06-2015/uAh_p8.gif



Otoh, when MJ caught the ball on the elbow, all he saw was bodies - no one was spacing the weakside so all 10 players were bunched up on strongside or in the paint, yet he still averaged 36 ppg on 53% in 1991-1993 Finals:


http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/7-30-2015/jkrR_v.gif

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/7-13-2015/kZeK3Z.gif

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/9-13-2015/1Y-xzB.gif

http://i.imgur.com/kAsDnlC.gif

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/8-06-2015/yu7DqT.gif

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/9-11-2015/4zBlRb.gif

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/7-08-2015/YLL71A.gif

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/7-15-2015/Gqsz_a.gif


Lebron has shooters spacing the weakside to take defenders away from the strongside, whereas MJ didn't get weakside spacing, so all 10 players were bunched up on the strongside.



Based on this, I'm going to say that MJ would've shot WAY better than 39% all alone on the strongside like that.

Also, the stats show that Lebron shot 40% on isolations in the regular season (110th out of 315), with a 0.93 PPP (80th out of 315).. He dipped to 33% fg on isolations in the playoffs (34th of 39)...

Given Lebron's below-average 1-on-1 ability, we can say for certain that Jordan's league-leading 1-on-1 ability would've yielded a fg% far greater than 39%.
.

[sportjames23]

rent freeball killin 'em softly. :cheers:

[Just2McFly]

if you think mj is certain to even get this to a game six you are on crack

[Straight_Ballin]

you do realize that had lebron shot even just 37% beyond 5 feet. the cavs probly would have won the title



but he shot 27%... and thats all she wrote

Damn that stings. Don't do em like that!

Jordan and Delly both playing D at the sametime? Lol Cavs in 6

[WayOfWade]

What do you mean 'one more game'? You're assuming Jordan could win 2 games in the first place, which is a false assumption, he would need to average 42/12/8 like LeBron did, which Jordan is incapable of.


I hate talking bad about Jordan, but here comes a limit where he just isnt good enough to win a game let alone the 2 Lebron won
Good points; While Jordan would probably be able to put up the 42 ppg, he almost definetely wouldn't put up THAT many rebounds and assists to boot. He'd probably score a little more efficiently, but I wouldn't bet on him taking the 2 games like LeBron did. Heck I don't even think LeBron (if put in the same situation for a 2nd time) would be able to take those 2 games either

[poido123]

Good points; While Jordan would probably be able to put up the 42 ppg, he almost definetely wouldn't put up THAT many rebounds and assists to boot. He'd probably score a little more efficiently, but I wouldn't bet on him taking the 2 games like LeBron did. Heck I don't even think LeBron (if put in the same situation for a 2nd time) would be able to take those 2 games either


I think a Jordan led Cavs beat the Warriors last year. Lebron doesn't intimidate teams like Jordan used to.

Jordan could take either Klay or Curry and get them both off their game, talking trash would certainly unsettle those guys.

Jordan's first or second 3peat. Jordan's jumper was unstoppable by the second 3 peat, which Warriors seemed to give Lebron all day long.

[GimmeThat]

if Andy V played and David Lee was still going to be kept on the bench for sure.

MAYbe.


and this is a Billy Donavan question

Shumpert probably can't play the point.
but if he could, Kobe at the SG might even make this match up interesting.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

True,

[diamenz]

vs golden state? jordan with the 88 bulls and beyond, yes. before that, i highly doubt it.

[plowking]

This thread is another reason this forum sucks. All good for opinion and what not, but bias runs this place and thread more so than gas runs a car.

People acting as if Jordan is some god, and would win last season... Please. On the basis of probability and ain't doing any better than Bron.
MJ shoots 41% against the Sonics, and his team comfortably leads him to victory. Bron puts up far more points on 40% and we act like Jordan would have come in and put on some miracle performance.

Half the Jordan fans, if not more were like 10 or less when they watched him play. Simply grown men now who are still infatuated with their childhood idol and like to ignore facts.

[sd3035]

Against single coverage, Jordan would have averaged more than 50

Bulls in 4 or 5, especially with Curry and Klay concussed for the first couple of games

[SouBeachTalents]

Against single coverage, Jordan would have averaged more than 50

Bulls in 4 or 5, especially with Curry and Klay concussed for the first couple of games

Bulls in a sweep :facepalm This forum does not discuss basketball with even a fraction of intelligence

[Lebron23]

Bulls in a sweep :facepalm This forum does not discuss basketball with even a fraction of intelligence


Simon is just trolling for attention.

[sd3035]

Bulls in a sweep :facepalm This forum does not discuss basketball with even a fraction of intelligence


The Warriors are a team full of role players with one superstar (obviously Curry), plus they were choking in the finals, only to be outchoked by Lebron

Jordan would have smoked their soft single coverage and actually played defense

Bulls in 4 or 5

you're clearly a moron

[tpols]

People don't realize that the Cavs won 2 games in the Finals based on their defense.. When they won Game 2, Lebron was 11-35 (31.4%), and was employing a clearout-the-side, playground style.. So it's impossible to categorize Lebron and Blatt's grade school-level offense as "good", but the team's defense made up for it - the Cavs defense was the best in the NBA to that point in the season, and the best the Warriors had faced all year.

So if the Cavs defense is good enough to win 2 games despite Lebron's aau, playground-level offensive sophistication and efficiency, then why wouldn't the defense be good enough to win 4 with MJ's elite offensive sophistication and efficiency?


Cavs kept their offense simple because, if they tried to swing it and play team ball, they'd get wrecked by GS's defense and be blown out in transition.

Their defense was only able to be elite because they were always set. They had some real great defensive pieces, but you're not stopping the warriors without a set defense.

Now, the reason they were always set is because Lebron was able to basically hold onto the ball for the whole shot clock, slowing the pace, and not allowing for any costly TOs which could blow the game open.


Do you think MJ could provide the same level of ball security throughout whole games to make sure GS never goes on a game breaking run ? (just curious)

[3ball]

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/6-05-2015/XIjX_w.gif

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/6-05-2015/P5Zone.gif

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/6-05-2015/I7p0lg.gif

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/6-05-2015/xUCd0U.gif

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/6-05-2015/CU5j5S.gif


http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/5-25-2015/LJjm2B.gif

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/5-25-2015/LN8UHS.gif

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/5-25-2015/QpWaKl.gif

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/5-25-2015/7mUjI9.gif

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/5-22-2015/WAhpK1.gif

[3ball]

whoops bad timing on the delete^^^

[3ball]

Cavs kept their offense simple because, if they tried to swing it and play team ball, they'd get wrecked by GS's defense and be blown out in transition.

Their defense was only able to be elite because they were always set. They had some real great defensive pieces, but you're not stopping the warriors without a set defense.

Now, the reason they were always set is because Lebron was able to basically hold onto the ball for the whole shot clock, slowing the pace, and not allowing for any costly TOs which could blow the game open.


Do you think MJ could provide the same level of ball security throughout whole games to make sure GS never goes on a game breaking run ? (just curious)
Why wouldn't MJ, or ANYONE be able to do the bolded above?

Again, anyone that can average 36 ppg on 39% could've won 2 games from the Warriors IF they also had the Cavs' elite defense behind them.. So what about averaging 41 ppg on 51% with the Cavs elite defense behind them?

if the Cavs defense is good enough to win 2 games despite Lebron's aau, playground-level offensive sophistication and efficiency, then why wouldn't the defense be good enough to win 4 with MJ's elite offensive sophistication and efficiency?.

[ralph_i_el]

Cavs kept their offense simple because, if they tried to swing it and play team ball, they'd get wrecked by GS's defense and be blown out in transition.

Their defense was only able to be elite because they were always set. They had some real great defensive pieces, but you're not stopping the warriors without a set defense.

Now, the reason they were always set is because Lebron was able to basically hold onto the ball for the whole shot clock, slowing the pace, and not allowing for any costly TOs which could blow the game open.


Do you think MJ could provide the same level of ball security throughout whole games to make sure GS never goes on a game breaking run ? (just curious)

Good post, but there's no use arguing with this morons.

[Levity]

are they guarding jordan the same way they did lebron? if so, he'd light them up for 40+ a night on great percentages. the series would have been pretty damn close.

[Hey Yo]

People don't realize that the Cavs won 2 games in the Finals based on their defense.. When they won Game 2, Lebron was 11-35 (31.4%), and was employing a clearout-the-side, playground style.. So it's impossible to categorize Lebron and Blatt's grade school-level offense as "good", but the team's defense made up for it - the Cavs defense was the best in the NBA to that point in the season, and the best the Warriors had faced all year.

So if the Cavs defense is good enough to win 2 games despite Lebron's aau, playground-level offensive sophistication and efficiency, then why wouldn't the defense be good enough to win 4 with MJ's elite offensive sophistication and efficiency?.. Essentially, anyone that can average 36 ppg on 39% could've won 2 games from the Warriors IF they also had the Cavs' elite defense behind them.. So what about averaging 41 ppg on 51% with the Cavs elite defense behind them?

LeBron's 39-16-11 triple double was a non factor in the game 2 win?

[Lebron23]

There's a reason why the Warriors were the no.1 offensive, and defensive team in the NBA.

They were a very good team. And the Cavaliers supporting casts had some difficulties in scoring.

Your lover boy Michael Jordan was 1-9 in the playoffs without Pippen. Call me when Jordan won multiple playoffs series without Pippen. Remember the Cavs were missing their 2 best players in the NBA Finals.

[Lebron23]

Are you serious?... Any decent point guard can do the bolded above.

The things that allowed Lebron to control pace was a COMBINATION of holding onto the ball like you say (that any PG can do) AND taking 33 fga... So yes, MJ could do this, as could any great scorer like Kobe, Durant, whoever - again, Lebron was employing a PLAYGROUND STYLE OF PLAY - he was just clearing out the strongside... How is that somehow "difficult" for someone else to duplicate?.. Are you that clueless about basketball?


You don't know $hit about basketball. What's Jordan's record without Pippen?

[3ball]

Now, the reason they were always set is because Lebron was able to basically hold onto the ball for the whole shot clock, slowing the pace, and not allowing for any costly TOs which could blow the game open.


Do you think MJ could provide the same level of ball security throughout whole games to make sure GS never goes on a game breaking run ? (just curious)



Are you serious?... Any decent point guard can do the bolded above.

It was a COMBINATION of holding onto the ball like you say (that any point guard can do) AND taking 33 fga that allowed him to control pace - you left out the 33 fga... That's what makes what he did rare, not just holding onto the ball.

So yes, MJ could do this, as could any great scorer like Kobe, Durant, whoever - again, Lebron was employing a PLAYGROUND STYLE OF PLAY - he was just clearing out the strongside and shot-jacking... How is that somehow "difficult" for someone else to duplicate?.. The fact that Lebron employed such a simple style AND shot 39% proves that the Cavs' DEFENSE was the reason they won the games, not Lebron's poor efficiency and grade-school, playground approach.
.

[swagga]

Are you serious?... Any decent point guard can do the bolded above.

It was a COMBINATION of holding onto the ball like you say (that any point guard can do) AND taking 33 fga that allowed him to control pace - you left out the 33 fga... That's what makes what he did rare, not just holding onto the ball.

So yes, MJ could do this, as could any great scorer like Kobe, Durant, whoever - again, Lebron was employing a PLAYGROUND STYLE OF PLAY - he was just clearing out the strongside and shot-jacking... How is that somehow "difficult" for someone else to duplicate?.. The fact that Lebron employed such a simple style AND shot 39% proves that the Cavs' DEFENSE was the reason they won the games, not Lebron's poor efficiency and grade-school, playground approach.
.

make or miss a post is a post.
chuck on brotha, it don't matter you're getting blocked or it airballs, the other trolls will get it on the rebound and put it back in the thread.

#kobesystem.
#jordandetermination
#postsperdayteam
#fcklebronparty
#ronartestshrink
#jordanGOAT
#jordanbetterbigmanthanshaq
#jordanplayedwithscrubs
#pippenjustahomelessniggawithoutjordan
#jordandick>lebrondick

[3ball]

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/7-06-2015/uAh_p8.gif
http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/7-13-2015/kZeK3Z.gif


LeBron's 39-16-11 triple double was a non factor in the game 2 win?



Anyone can employ an aau/playground style to get 36 ppg on 39%, but the only way that grade-school style and shitty efficiency sniffs 2 wins in the Finals is if there's an elite defense to make the other team play and shoot even worse.

And Lebron's playground style could never get the full four wins needed to actually win, unless he increased that 39% field goal percentage to like 50%.. MJ would do this considering he shot 50% against packed strongsides, so he would have a field day against the wide open strongsides that today's weakside spacing afforded Lebron (see gif comparison above).
.

[3ball]

make or miss a post is a post.
chuck on brotha, it don't matter you're getting blocked or it airballs, the other trolls will get it on the rebound and put it back in the thread.


I'm not the guy that thinks only Lebron can hold onto the ball for the whole shot clock, or the other guy that cheered in agreement.. :confusedshrug:

[Hey Yo]

Anyone can employ an aau/playground style to get 36 ppg on 39%, but the only way that grade-school style and shitty efficiency sniffs 2 wins in the Finals is if there's an elite defense to make the other team play and shoot even worse.

And Lebron's playground style could never get the full four wins needed to actually win, unless he increased that 39% field goal percentage to like 50%.. MJ would do this considering he shot 50% against packed strongsides, so he would have a field day against the wide open strongsides that today's weakside spacing afforded Lebron (see gif comparison above).
.
LeBron's 39-16-11 triple double was a non factor in the game 2 win??

[swagga]

I'm not the guy that thinks only Lebron can hold onto the ball for the whole shot clock, or the other guy that cheered in agreement.. :confusedshrug:

do you think MJ's small hands made it impossible for him to hold the ball?

[swagga]

LeBron's 39-16-11 triple double was a non factor in the game 2 win??

he was lucky :rolleyes:

[3ball]

.
No weakside spacing = all 10 players on strongside and/or in paint


http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/7-30-2015/jkrR_v.gif

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/7-13-2015/kZeK3Z.gif

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/9-13-2015/1Y-xzB.gif

http://i.imgur.com/kAsDnlC.gif

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/8-06-2015/yu7DqT.gif

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/9-11-2015/4zBlRb.gif

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/7-08-2015/YLL71A.gif

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/7-15-2015/Gqsz_a.gif


Lebron has shooters spacing the weakside to take defenders away from the strongside, whereas MJ didn't get weakside spacing, so all 10 players were bunched up on the strongside.
.

[3ball]

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/7-06-2015/uAh_p8.gif


LeBron's 39-16-11 triple double was a non factor in the game 2 win??



1) Do you understand that the scenario above shows OPTIMAL CONDITIONS to go 1-on-1?

2) Do you understand that Lebron and his statistically-proven, below-average isolation ability only shot 39% under these optimal conditions?

3) Do you really think MJ would shoot 39% in this scenario when his offensive repertoire was goat (not below-average like Lebron), and he already shot 50% against PACKED strongsides, which means he would have a field day against the wide open strongsides that today's weakside spacing afforded Lebron?... (see gif comparison in previous post).

[Hey Yo]

1) Do you understand that the scenario above shows OPTIMAL CONDITIONS to go 1-on-1?

2) Do you understand that Lebron and his statistically-proven, below-average isolation ability only shot 39% under these optimal conditions?

3) Do you really think MJ would shoot 39% in this scenario when his offensive repertoire was goat (not below-average like Lebron), and he already shot 50% against PACKED strongsides, which means he would have a field day against the wide open strongsides that today's weakside spacing afforded Lebron?... (see gif comparison in previous post).
You can't compare MJ with the above scenario because that was LeBron's 12th straight season, 5th straight Finals appearance and 4th straight postseason leading his team in MP, points, TRB, assists.

Since MJ did none of the above in his career, it's hard to believe he could have under the same conditions.


btw.... you still haven't answered:

LeBron's 39-16-11 triple double was a non factor in the game 2 win??

[3ball]

You can't compare MJ with the above scenario because that was LeBron's 12th straight season, 5th straight Finals appearance and 4th straight postseason leading his team in MP, points, TRB, assists.



Right, it's not a fair comparison because MJ did much MORE than all that:


Playoffs Thru Age 30:

Jordan: 34.7 PPG, 6.7 RPG, 6.6 APG, 2.3 SPG, 1.0 BLK, 25.4 FGA, 50.1 FG%, 29.6 PER
Lebron: 28.2 PPG, 8.8 RPG, 6.7 APG, 1.7 SPG, 0.9 BLK, 20.8 FGA, 47.3 FG%, 27.4 PER


Finals Thru Age 30:

Jordan: 36.3 PPG, 6.6 RPG, 7.9 APG, 2.0 SPG, 0.76 BPG, 52.6% FG, 40.7% 3 PT
Lebron: 26.4 PPG, 9.6 RPG, 6.9 APG, 1.8 SPG, 0.54 BPG, 44.6 FG%, 31.9% 3 PT





btw.... you still haven't answered:

LeBron's 39-16-11 triple double was a non factor in the game 2 win??\


Lebron's 39 points were achieved via 11-35 shooting (31.4%).. Again, the only reason this kind of efficiency was able to win is because the Cavs defense was the best in the NBA to that point in the season, and the best the Warriors had faced all year.

So if the Cavs defense is good enough to win 2 games despite Lebron's statistically-proven, below-average isolation ability and horrible efficiency, then why wouldn't their defense be good enough to win 4 games with MJ's goat isolation ability and efficiency?.. Especially with the strongside and paint wide open?
.

[Hey Yo]

Right, it's not a fair comparison because MJ did much MORE than all that:


Playoffs Thru Age 30:

Jordan: 34.7 PPG, 6.7 RPG, 6.6 APG, 2.3 SPG, 1.0 BLK, 25.4 FGA, 50.1 FG%, 29.6 PER
Lebron: 28.2 PPG, 8.8 RPG, 6.7 APG, 1.7 SPG, 0.9 BLK, 20.8 FGA, 47.3 FG%, 27.4 PER


Finals Thru Age 30:

Jordan: 36.3 PPG, 6.6 RPG, 7.9 APG, 2.0 SPG, 0.76 BPG, 52.6% FG, 40.7% 3 PT
Lebron: 26.4 PPG, 9.6 RPG, 6.9 APG, 1.8 SPG, 0.54 BPG, 44.6 FG%, 31.9% 3 PT



Lebron's 39 points were achieved via 11-35 shooting (31.4%).. Again, the only reason this kind of efficiency was able to win is because the Cavs defense was the best in the NBA to that point in the season, and the best the Warriors had faced all year.

So if the Cavs defense is good enough to win 2 games despite Lebron's statistically-proven, below-average isolation ability and horrible efficiency, then why wouldn't their defense be good enough to win 4 games with MJ's goat isolation ability and efficiency?.. Especially with the strongside and paint wide open?
.
:facepalm

The wheels on the bus go round and round,round and round, round and round.

If MJ did much more than LeBron, then show me the stats from each player from their 5th consecutive Finals appearance. Should be easy to find, no?

The Cavs were ranked 20th in Defensive Efficiency. Safe to say GS faced better D's.

Because MJ didn't have the goat ISO ability and efficiency in his 12th season.... even after quitting and resting for almost 2yrs.

[ralph_i_el]

because the Cavs defense was the best in the NBA to that point in the season, and the best the Warriors had faced all year.

.

The Cavs were 18th in defensive efficiency last season. That would have been the WORST defensive squad to ever win a championship if they had won.

TT in Love's place is a bit of an upgrade, but they still didn't have a championship level D.

They played slow, grind it out basketball because that was the only chance they had at winning any games. It wasn't optimal for LeBron's efficiency, but it was the only strategy that had a chance with Kyrie and Love out.

Kyrie played his ass off up to that point btw. I had never seen him play defense as well as he did last playoffs.

[3ball]

TT in Love's place is a bit of an upgrade, but they still didn't have a championship level D.


Without Love, they vaulted to the best defensive team in the league - going into the NBA Finals, Cavs had the league's #1 playoff defense.





They played slow, grind it out basketball because that was the only chance they had at winning any games. It wasn't optimal for LeBron's efficiency, but it was the only strategy that had a chance with Kyrie and Love out.


ANY decent point guard can slow it down and control pace... It's ludicrous that Lebron fans think he's the only guy that can slow down the pace.

And the pace didn't affect Lebron's efficiency - the 1993 Finals were played at a SLOWER pace (89.7) than this year's Finals (90.7)...

When will you guys stop ignoring the cold, hard facts that Lebron had optimal conditions to go 1-on-1... The strongside was completely empty and all 4 help defenders were the furthest away they could possibly be on the far weakside staying at home on shooters... Those are THE most optimal conditions, yet Lebron only shot 39% - and don't be surprised at that efficiency - the stats show Lebron was far below-average on isolations and shot those exact same percentages for the entire regular season and entire postseason (not just the Finals).

[FKAri]

Everyone woulda been an underdog.

[sd3035]

3ball bodying hey yo :roll:

[eeeeeebro]

my honesty depending on which jordan team. the team with denis rodman would have a good chance. actualy pippen and jordan both would hold down the splash bros and denis > green jordan has an unstoppable fade-away so even when he is not driving like nuts hes gonna be shooting very well. Also jordan can block shots and pippen could block shots so no free three pointers.. add the fact that jordan and pippen lead league in steels this would definately be a hard series for the warriors. BUT I believe they have a shot.

[Rose'sACL]

.
When Lebron caught it on the elbow, all he saw was open space because shooters on weakside drew defenders away from strongside - yet he only averaged 36 ppg on 39%:


http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/7-06-2015/uAh_p8.gif






Lebron has shooters spacing the weakside to take defenders away from the strongside, whereas MJ didn't get weakside spacing, so all 10 players were bunched up on the strongside.
.
what i see in nearly all your lebron gifs in 2015 finals, i see the warriors playing defense which would be illegal in the 90s. just look at it.
Look at where curry is standing and for how long he is standing there. Free throws for the cavs there if this was the 90s.

you know so little about the game.

[OldSchoolBBall]

what i see in nearly all your lebron gifs in 2015 finals, i see the warriors playing defense which would be illegal in the 90s. just look at it.
Look at where curry is standing and for how long he is standing there. Free throws for the cavs there if this was the 90s.

you know so little about the game.

Err, no. There's nothing in that GIF which would be illegal in the 90's.

[Quickening]

Yes MJ really dominated the 80s when he had a mediocre supporting cast, won the finals every year.

[Gileraracer]

Don't you dare to compare the GOAT to this ring chasing, colluding 27% shooting beta :facepalm

[smoovegittar]

Jordan woulda whipped all those boy's assess... including J.R. Smith's. Granted, that team would have played in a different manner had he been there all season.