Replace MJ on the 97 Bulls w/ prime Wade and put them in today's NBA

[sportjames23]

Do they dominate the East and then win it all?

[scandisk_]

Do they dominate the East and then win it all?

easy

vs Cavs

you might say that Prime Wade vs current bron is a wash but who are you kiddin.

The rest of the bulls squad vs the jokeverliers. lol

Pip would have a field day

[greatest-ever]

Yes they win it all. Wade's best seasons are comparable if not better than 97 MJ. Its not a knock on Jordan, but in 97 he lost a step from what he was from 89-93.

[greatest-ever]

easy

vs Cavs

you might say that Prime Wade vs current bron is a wash but who are you kiddin.

The rest of the bulls squad vs the jokeverliers. lol

Pip would have a field day
I think Wade's 2 or 3 best years are clearly better than what Lebron will be this coming up season.

[aj1987]

'09-'11 Wade on the '96-'98 Bulls probably 3peats in today's NBA. Has a perfect sidekick in Pippen and a bunch of shooters and defenders.

[The_Pharcyde]

people underrate the difficulty 3 peat, there is a reason only 3 teams have done it ever!

its as much about mental stamina and keeping your team sharp competitively as it is about raw talent and schemes

[GrapeApe]

Assuming they have competent role players, yes they win it all.

edit: Duh, same team as '97 Bulls. My bad.

Yes, they are unquestionably the best team in the league. Prime Wade and Pippen would be a devastating combo.

[scandisk_]

'09-'11 Wade on the '96-'98 Bulls probably 3peats in today's NBA. Has a perfect sidekick in Pippen and a bunch of shooters and defenders.

lol?

kukoc and rodman

:roll: :roll: :roll:

game over for the cavs

SWEEP!

[WayOfWade]

I'd be inclined to say yes. Jordan in 97' put up 29.6/5.9/4.3 while 09' Wade put pu 30.2/5.0/7.5 without any help whatsoever. Put that team in the 97' playoffs, and I think it might be a different story, but in today's east, they'd easily make the finals and probably take down any team the West puts up agains them.
They'd easily take an inexperienced Clippers team, and the Grizzlies would put up a fight (as always) but would eventually lose. The interesting team would probably be the Warriors. It's not every year that a 67 win teams come around, and for good reason, the Warriors are very good. Wade is easily better than Thompson, and being in his (Wade's) prime would mean that he would dominate on both sides of the ball. Iggy would probably guard Wade, but there's no stopping him. It would be fun to watch a Green vs. Rodman matchup, those guys would go at it, but I think Green would have the edge there. Pippen > Iggy, and I don't really know too much about the Center position. But I'd say a matchup between these two teams would go 6 or 7 with Miami taking it.

[GrapeApe]

lol?

kukoc and rodman

:roll: :roll: :roll:

game over for the cavs

SWEEP!


Steve Kerr? He's a decent shooter last I checked.

Not to mention a defense with prime Wade, Pippen, Rodman, and Harper is going to be downright nasty.

[dubeta]

As long as Pippens on the team they'll be good. That's the most important factor

[#number6ix#]

Nope, as much as I respect Wade and know what Prime Wade is capable of they don't have enough shooters to space the floor... In 97 Pippen only played 44 games and was 32 with a bad back

The 97 bulls only featured 2 players that made 1 three a game Pippen (1 make on 4 attempts) and Kerr (1 make on just under 3 attempts) Kukoc was solid

Rodman was 36 and beast on the boards but a liability in offense

I think Cleveland has enough Defense and more than enough offense to beat them and if not whatever comes out of the West will

[3ball]

Yes they win it all. Wade's best seasons are comparable if not better than 97 MJ. Its not a knock on Jordan, but in 97 he lost a step from what he was from 89-93.


Not in the playoffs - exactly zero of Wade's playoff runs compare statistically with MJ's 1997, or ANY of MJ's.. Seriously - put the playoff stats of MJ and Wade side by side - you'll be amazed.

And during the regular season, Wade's very best season (2009) is the same as MJ's 1997:

Per 100 Possessions:

MJ ....1997 RS: 41.8 pts.. 8.3 rebs... 6.0 ast.. 2.9 tov.. 121 ORtg
Wade 2009 RS: 41.8 pts.. 7.0 rebs.. 10.3 ast.. 4.8 tov.. 115 ORtg


MJ has at least 7 other seasons equal or greater than Wade's best season (2009).

[GrapeApe]

Not in the playoffs - exactly zero of Wade's playoff runs compare statistically with MJ's 1997, or ANY of MJ's.. Seriously - put the playoff stats of MJ and Wade side by side - you'll be amazed.

And during the regular season, Wade's very best season (2009) is the same as MJ's 1997:

Per 100 Possessions:

MJ ....1997 RS: 41.8 pts.. 8.3 rebs... 6.0 ast.. 2.9 tov.. 121 ORtg
Wade 2009 RS: 41.8 pts.. 7.0 rebs.. 10.3 ast.. 4.8 tov.. 115 ORtg


MJ has at least 7 other seasons equal or greater than Wade's best season (2009).

Wade's 2006 playoff run was comparable to MJ's second 3 peat playoff runs and arguably better than MJ 's in 1996.

2006 Wade: 28/6/6 on 50%FG, 59%TS, 2.2 spg, 1.1 bpg, 26.9 PER

1996 Jordan: 31/5/4 on 46%FG, 56%TS, 1.8 spg, 0.3 bpg, 26.7 PER

As for your last sentence I bolded, I've already pointed out that this is simply untrue. MJ DOES NOT HAVE 7 seasons equal or better to winning a scoring title, finishing 7th in assists, and 3rd in DPOY. Each of what I just listed shows a direct comparison to the rest of the league, which is a much better way to compare players than raw numbers. You can post your per 100 possession stats if you'd like, but you also need to post the league averages as a reference point for comparison.

[greatest-ever]

Not in the playoffs - exactly zero of Wade's playoff runs compare statistically with MJ's 1997, or ANY of MJ's.. Seriously - put the playoff stats of MJ and Wade side by side - you'll be amazed.

Well no that's not accurate.

MJ 97 playoffs rounded off 31/8/5 52.4 ts% 27.1 PER
06 Wade: 28/6/6 59.3 ts% 26.9 PER

They have similar PERs, MJ rebounded and scored a little more but his scoring efficiency was much worse, Wade blows him out of the water in that regard.


And during the regular season, Wade's very best season (2009) is the same as MJ's 1997:

Per 100 Possessions:

MJ ....1997 RS: 41.8 pts.. 8.3 rebs... 6.0 ast.. 2.9 tov.. 121 ORtg
Wade 2009 RS: 41.8 pts.. 7.0 rebs.. 10.3 ast.. 4.8 tov.. 115 ORtg

A gap of 4.3 assists seems pretty big to just ignore. Not to mention Wade was more efficienct scoring wise, and took on a larger playmaking load. 97 MJ PER 27.8, Wade 30.4.



MJ has at least 7 other seasons equal or greater than Wade's best season (2009).
THat sounds about right except 97 isn't one of them

[Young X]

Well no that's not accurate.

MJ 97 playoffs rounded off 31/8/5 52.4 ts% 27.1 PER
06 Wade: 28/6/6 59.3 ts% 26.9 PER

They have similar PERs, MJ rebounded and scored a little more but his scoring efficiency was much worse, Wade blows him out of the water in that regard.



A gap of 4.3 assists seems pretty big to just ignore. Not to mention Wade was more efficienct scoring wise, and took on a larger playmaking load. 97 MJ PER 27.8, Wade 30.4.



THat sounds about right except 97 isn't one of themYou can't just list a bunch of advanced numbers to determine which season is better. Doesn't work like that.

[3ball]

As for your last sentence I bolded, I've already pointed out that this is simply untrue. MJ DOES NOT HAVE 7 seasons equal or better to winning a scoring title, finishing 7th in assists, and 3rd in DPOY. Each of what I just listed shows a direct comparison to the rest of the league, which is a much better way to compare players than raw numbers. You can post your per 100 possession stats if you'd like, but you also need to post the league averages as a reference point for comparison.



The bolded are arbitrary things that you picked out - they aren't the only factors that define what makes a good season... There are many other factors, and most of them favor MJ.

And of course, the per 100 stats show that MJ had at least 8 seasons that are equal or better than Wade's very best (2009).

We can compare their respective per 100 stats to the rest of the league if you want - but you'll find that MJ's stats were always far better than the rest of the league, so you won't win there either.. The year MJ averaged 37 ppg, his gap over the #2 guy was the most in history.

[sportjames23]

I think some of ya'll forgetting what 97 MJ was doing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36YZvyvPL0I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SC-K7y-btAM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=760p2WmEJEc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2os-hfXSUlA


Please, let's not compare Wade to MJ. Leave the GOAT out of this.

[GrapeApe]

The bolded are arbitrary things that you picked out - they aren't the only factors that define what makes a good season... There are many other factors, and most of them favor MJ.

And of course, the per 100 stats show that MJ had at least 8 seasons that are equal or better than Wade's very best (2009).

We can compare their respective per 100 stats to the rest of the league if you want - but you'll find that MJ's stats were always far better than the rest of the league, so you won't win there either.. The year MJ averaged 37 ppg, his gap over the #2 guy was the most in history.

Arbitrary to a degree perhaps, but it shows that Wade was a dominant scorer, playmaker, and defender. Those are the primary attributes you look for in a guard. Of course it doesn't tell the whole story, but it paints a pretty accurate picture of how great Wade was in all facets.

You do understand the point I'm making about comparing players in relation to the rest of the league, right? Instead of constantly harping on per 100 stats, post where Jordan ranked in the league in those stats for a particular season. That's what I did for Wade. Again, call them arbitrary if you want, but ranking #1 in ppg, #7 in apg, #5 in ast %, #2 in spg, #16 in bpg, and #3 in DPOY is pretty damn insane. I am quite confident that Jordan didn't have 7+ seasons with those type of league rankings as compared to his peers.

That's all I'm trying to say. Jordan >>> Wade of course. I'm just trying to put into perspective how dominant Wade was in 2009. It speaks volumes to Jordan's greatness that he HAS had multiple seasons comparable to 2009 Wade. I simply contend that it's not the 7+ you claim.

[greatest-ever]

You can't just list a bunch of advanced numbers to determine which season is better. Doesn't work like that.
And what do you suggest, we judge them from things like "killer instinct!", and "will to win" and other mythical things?

[3ball]

And what do you suggest, we judge them from things like "killer instinct!", and "will to win" and other mythical things?
optimism, confidence, comfort level, and intimidation aren't "mythical" things; they're real things that exist, which smart people are aware of

[Young X]

And what do you suggest, we judge them from things like "killer instinct!", and "will to win" and other mythical things?No, but you can't only list raw numbers and PER especially when their styles of play and responsibilities are different. Wade had to do everything offensively for his team while Jordan sacrificed his playmaking duties playing alongside another great perimeter player in a more structured offense. That's gonna affect their numbers (just like how Wade's assists numbers went down playing with Lebron).

You're gonna tell me that Jordan playing with the level of efficiency/effectiveness he did in leading one of the greatest teams in league history to a championship isn't on the level of '09 Wade just because his PER is lower?

[Legends66NBA7]

Please, let's not compare Wade to MJ. Leave the GOAT out of this.

Then why did you make the thread ?

[greatest-ever]

No, but you can't only list raw numbers and PER especially when their styles of play and responsibilities are different. Wade had to do everything offensively for his team while Jordan sacrificed his playmaking duties playing alongside another great perimeter player in a more structured offense. That's gonna affect their numbers (just like how Wade's assists numbers went down playing with Lebron).

Except none of what you said has to do with his efficiency. MJ in the year mentioned was scoring less effciently than Wade despite having much better talent around him, Wade played with hot garbage in 09 and still managed great efficiency. So your statement doesn't help MJ's argument when scoring efficiency is brought into question, it only hurts it.


You're gonna tell me that Jordan playing with the level of efficiency/effectiveness he did in leading one of the greatest teams in league history to a championship isn't on the level of '09 Wade just because his PER is lower?
Well no and that wasn't really the crux of my argument anyways.

Bringing up the championship part is utterly meaningless due to the disparity in supporting casts. There isn't a single version of MJ that would take the 09 heat to a title.

[scandisk_]

I think some of ya'll forgetting what 97 MJ was doing:

Please, let's not compare Wade to MJ. Leave the GOAT out of this.

Lelz

Prime Wade with the 97 CHI stomps.

stop fooling yourself, and it's not even against the 97 teams. wtf

:facepalm

[sportjames23]

Then why did you make the thread ?


To discuss if Wade can lead this team to victory, not MJ.

[Kobe_6/8]

Wade/Pippen/Rodman
..
..
..
LeBron/Wade/Bosh
..
..
..
..
..
LeBron/Kyrie/Love

[Fallen Angel]

To discuss if Wade can lead this team to victory, not MJ.
You are so stupid

[Papaya Petee]

I think some of ya'll forgetting what 97 MJ was doing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36YZvyvPL0I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SC-K7y-btAM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=760p2WmEJEc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2os-hfXSUlA


Please, let's not compare Wade to MJ. Leave the GOAT out of this.
Lol what a retarded post. I can show you 06 Wade vids tearing teams to shreds in the playoffs and regular season as well. Same with 09 Wade in the regular season. Nobody is arguing that Wade compares to Jordan.

But 06 and 09 Wade certainly are on 97 Jordan level and 09 Wade was clearly better at least in the regular season.

[OldSchoolBBall]

Wade's 2006 playoff run was comparable to MJ's second 3 peat playoff runs and arguably better than MJ 's in 1996.

2006 Wade: 28/6/6 on 50%FG, 59%TS, 2.2 spg, 1.1 bpg, 26.9 PER

1996 Jordan: 31/5/4 on 46%FG, 56%TS, 1.8 spg, 0.3 bpg, 26.7 PER

As for your last sentence I bolded, I've already pointed out that this is simply untrue. MJ DOES NOT HAVE 7 seasons equal or better to winning a scoring title, finishing 7th in assists, and 3rd in DPOY. Each of what I just listed shows a direct comparison to the rest of the league, which is a much better way to compare players than raw numbers. You can post your per 100 possession stats if you'd like, but you also need to post the league averages as a reference point for comparison.

Jordan most certainly DOES have 7 seasons equal to or better than Wade's 2009:

1987-1993, and 1996.

[sportjames23]

Lol what a retarded post. I can show you 06 Wade vids tearing teams to shreds in the playoffs and regular season as well. Same with 09 Wade in the regular season. Nobody is arguing that Wade compares to Jordan.

But 06 and 09 Wade certainly are on 97 Jordan level and 09 Wade was clearly better at least in the regular season.


Obviously you think Wade does compare to MJ saying that 06 and 09 Wade are on 97 MJ's level or better.

[sportjames23]

You are so stupid


Eat a bag of cawks, bitch.

[OldSchoolBBall]

People saying Wade was so much more efficient than 1997 MJ do realize that he only had a 57.4 to 56.7% TS advantage, right. That's negligible.

[Papaya Petee]

Obviously you think Wade does compare to MJ saying that 06 and 09 Wade are on 97 MJ's level or better.
No I don't you moron. 1997 Jordan isnt even close to prime Jordan.

You don't see me saying 06 and 09 Wade are on 87-93 Jordan level

[scandisk_]

No I don't you moron. 1997 Jordan isnt even close to prime Jordan.

You don't see me saying 06 and 09 Wade are on 87-93 Jordan level

No point arguing with a dude camping in his basement. Some of these deluded stans even think that the rest of the Bulls squad are scrubs. Trolling? nah try virgin.

[tpols]

I don't see why not.. 96-98 Jordan is so overrated. 09-11 Wade, 08-10 Kobe are both very comparable and that's end prime versions of them.

Jordan stans will actually laugh at prime/peak versions of Wade/Kobe being compared to end prime Jordan and say they cant win on some of the most statistically proven stacked teams of all time... shits retarded.


If the 94 Bulls even had a prime Ray Allen they'd win the title.. and they weren't as stacked as the later teams.

[Papaya Petee]

I don't see why not.. 96-98 Jordan is so overrated. 09-11 Wade, 08-10 Kobe are both very comparable and that's end prime versions of them.

Jordan stans will actually laugh at prime/peak versions of Wade/Kobe being compared to end prime Jordan and say they cant win on some of the most statistically proven stacked teams of all time... shits retarded.


If the 94 Bulls even had a prime Ray Allen they'd win the title.. and they weren't as stacked as the later teams.
Regular Season
2009-2011 Wade - 27.5/6/6/2/1 49% FG
2008-2010 Kobe - 27/5/5.5/2/.5 46% FG
1996-1998 Jordan- 29.5/4/6/2/.5 48% FG

Playoffs
2009-2011 Wade- 29/5/6/2/1 49% FG
2008-2010 Kobe- 30/6/5/1/1 45% FG
1996-1998 Jordan - 31.5/5/6/2/.5 46% FG

[Dragonyeuw]

I don't see why not.. 96-98 Jordan is so overrated. 09-11 Wade, 08-10 Kobe are both very comparable and that's end prime versions of them.



09-11 Wade is 27-29 year old Wade after 5-6 years in the league, that's hardly end prime. Kobe 08-10 is 30-32, yeah that's end prime especially when you consider how long he had been playing by that point. That said, 96-98 MJ is still 33-35 years old, that's old age for a guard even with the year break.

[kshutts1]

On paper, how is that Bulls team better than a healthy Thunder team, especially in today's NBA?

[aj1987]

On paper, how is that Bulls team better than a healthy Thunder team, especially in today's NBA?
Prime Wade, Scottie, and Rodman.

[kshutts1]

Prime Wade, Scottie, and Rodman.
I got that. Prime Durant, Westbrook and Ibaka?

Rodman and Harper provide no spacing, nor does Longley. The best shooter in that starting lineup is Pippen, a career 33% from 3.

Prime Durant is better than prime Pippen.
Wade better than Westbrook.
Rodman a better overall player than Ibaka, but in today's NBA, Ibaka is more valuable.

[scandisk_]

I got that. Prime Durant, Westbrook and Ibaka?

Rodman and Harper provide no spacing, nor does Longley. The best shooter in that starting lineup is Pippen, a career 33% from 3.

Prime Durant is better than prime Pippen.
Wade better than Westbrook.
Rodman a better overall player than Ibaka, but in today's NBA, Ibaka is more valuable.


http://pimg.tradeindia.com/01151914/b/1/Cotton-Roll.jpg

The 97 bulls squad is a proven team, sans MJ. The THUNDER? Lelz Bron and co are goin to feast on that.


edit: ooops forgot it's in today's league

[kshutts1]

The 97 bulls squad is a proven team, sans MJ. The THUNDER? Lelz Bron and co are goin to feast on that.


edit: ooops forgot it's in today's league
Last I checked, the '15 Spurs were a proven team, and the '15 Clips were not.
The Clips were more proven than the Rockets.
The Rockets were more proven than the Warriors.

So what, exactly, does being proven really matter?

[gasolina]

People focus too much on the Wade / MJ side of it. Would the rest of the 97 Bulls be as effective with no hand checking, no illegal D, overloading the strong side, and stretch fours on every team?

On the Robinson/Hakeem thread, somebody pointed out how Robert Horry dropped big numbers on Rodman just because he's standing out there in the perimeter. As great as a defender he is, I'm not sure the 97 version was that mobile. He usually checks the best post player but how many of them exist in the league now? You could make the case for Kukoc being more important today.

Harper would be an offensive liability. Having him and Rodman on the floor at the same time? :no: Also w/o handchecking how would he stay in front of the Westbrooks, the Irvings, the Roses.

I agree Wade + Pippen would be nasty but it's not the complete story.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Does lack of durability and jumper come into the equation as well for Wade. He'd win a chip but don't see three peating at all really. I think it is fair to say he'd win one. Probably 2009 Wade on the 96 team. Everything else ... from 2010 Wade and beyond? Probably not. Especially with durability issues.

[97 bulls]

Regular Season
2009-2011 Wade - 27.5/6/6/2/1 49% FG
2008-2010 Kobe - 27/5/5.5/2/.5 46% FG
1996-1998 Jordan- 29.5/4/6/2/.5 48% FG

Playoffs
2009-2011 Wade- 29/5/6/2/1 49% FG
2008-2010 Kobe- 30/6/5/1/1 45% FG
1996-1998 Jordan - 31.5/5/6/2/.5 46% FG
But your not taking the rule changes into consideration. 96-98 Jordan would average 33 on 50% shooting today.