If Kevin Durant wins an MVP and Finals MVP this season, does he eclipse Kobe?

[Naero]

While the NBA season is over a month away from full swing and most of the discussions on major splashes in the off-season are archived, most topical discussion-stimulators are centered around the all-time legacies of the more historically renowned players

[Akrazotile]

THey're about even right now. Kobe has the accolades, Durant has the greater prime-for-prime impact.

If Durant wins a MVP and Finals MVP there's no question he surpasses Kobe to move into the top 15 all time. Durant will have 2 MVP's and a FMVP in half the time Kobe achieved 1 MVP* and 2 FMVP*'s, plus Durant will likely surpass Kobe in all-time career scoring if he can remain mostly healthy from here on out.

Tbh though, he doesn't even really need both of those things to eclipse Kobe by the end of this season. Either one of them alone oughtta do it.

[Naero]

If he wins an MVP this season and cracks into the All-Defensive Team, I'd lend serious consideration in moving him up above Kobe.

Kobe's main non-championship accomplishments center around defense and longevity. While Kobe likely didn't merit any of his post-Shaq All-Defensive Team selections, as he started to coast around on that end while he took an even more chief offensive role as the team-leader, he still was arguably the best two-way perimeter-oriented player in the league from 2000-2004 and retained above-average defensive prowess until 2009-2010 or thereabout.

Kevin Durant can reduce that gap with an All-Defensive Team selection himself. If he continues improving on that end, which he's forgottenly made tremendous strides in before his injury, he may have a chance to crack into it; but it will be uphill, since the media may remain ingrained in his reputation as a subpar defender that he earned earlier in his career.

As for longevity: that is another gap that will be abridged if he posts another phenomenal season, as his body of work at an earlier stage in his career already mostly eclipses Kobe's.

By reducing those gaps and taking home another MVP, I may start touting that Kevin Durant has already eclipsed him, as long as he at least has a great individual run in the championship hunt.

Many are mainly awaiting to prove how dependable of a championship-leader he is, which may be disacknowledged until he actually wins it. While he is 0-1 in the finals, he has no major blemishes on his finals track record (unlike Kobe and LeBron); that's why I only need to see one Finals MVP from him on a more impressive run than Kobe has ever pulled, and it will be enough for me to conclude that he has a better championship-leading legacy than Kobe has ever had.

Plus, if the rest of his (expectant) finals trips remain blemishless, he may even surpass the 5-7 finals record that Kobe stants like to vaunt about by winning his next-three finals. :lol

[2swift4u]

How in the world is he surpassing Kobe with a MVP and Finals MVP title?? That's like saying if Melo wins one championship he surpasses Jordan. :facepalm

[kennethgriffin]

sure why not

more mvps

when has that ever failed us

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

The problem is, rings or not, Kobe is the better player.

Their scoring is roughly in the same tier, while Bean does pretty much everything else...better. Tangibly as well.

I need to see more from Durant in the playmaking department. Ditto on the defensive side of the ball. He improves in those areas, then yes, maybe he'll be known as the better player historically.

[kennethgriffin]

new all time ranking

steve nash top 10 all time
derrick rose top 15 all time

jerry west top 30-35

elgin baylor top 30-35

shaq? pfftt... i guess hes around where rose is

[kennethgriffin]

http://i.imgur.com/3dh3g2X.jpg

[plowking]

As far as play on the court goes, Kobe doesn't have a season as good as Durant's MVP season.

Ranking him higher or eclipsing Kobe though? Nah, not close.

[kennethgriffin]

As far as play on the court goes, Kobe doesn't have a season as good as Durant's MVP season.

Ranking him higher or eclipsing Kobe though? Nah, not close.


does play on the court involve winning and/or dropping more than durants career high in less than 2 quarters of basketball


seriously though. whats durants record? 54

kobe had 55 in just one half

[talkingconch]

this place has literally gone to chit lol

[Marchesk]

this place has literally gone to chit lol

It was bad before, but the Lebron and Kobe family united to drag this site to depths never before plumbed.

[catch24]

As far as play on the court goes, Kobe doesn't have a season as good as Durant's MVP season.

Ranking him higher or eclipsing Kobe though? Nah, not close.

Kobe's 2006-2008 peak was greater IMO.

Kobe in 2008 led his team to the finals, and played a better floor game than Durant did in 2014. Played a lot better in the postseason too.

[ISHGoat]

As players, durant has already aurpassed kobe. As far as resume and accolades, Durant has a long way to go. He will need about 3 rings and 2-3 mvps to pass kobe on the resume list. It's about # of MVPs by ring winners.

[Smoke117]

He already has.

[Magic 32]

He already has.

Shouldn't you at least be funny when you lie?

Trolling 101

[West-Side]

Considering Durant's only comparable to Kobe in terms of scoring, I'd say no.
2003 Kobe is better than Durant's best season. He was a better defender and play-maker that year than Durant will ever be while dropping 30 PPG.

If TS% is what you guys go by or MVP's; than I guess Chris Mullin is better than Kobe too and Nash is better than Shaq.

Durant: 32 - 7.4 - 5.5 - 1.3 - 0.7 - 50% - 39% - 87% - 3.5 TO
Kobe: 30 - 6.9 - 5.9 - 2.0 - 0.8 - 45% - 38% - 84% - 3.5 TO
Yet Kobe was actually exceptional defensively that year.
Durant is like 3/4 inches taller and could only mustard .5 more rebounds a game.
Kobe even had more blocks a game at 6'6.

Durant had a more efficient season overall while Kobe was a better play-maker and a far better defender (in 2003).

Kobe's 2008 season I believe is better than Durant's best too.

30.1 PPG - 5.7 RPG - 5.6 APG - 1.7 SPG - 48% (playoffs)
28.3 PPG - 6.3 RPG - 5.4 APG - 1.8 SPG - 46% (reg. season)

Durant's 2013 season

29.6 PPG - 8.9 RPG - 3.9 APG - 1.1 SPG - 46% (playoffs)
32.0 PPG - 7.4 RPG - 5.5 APG - 1.3 SPG - 50% (reg. season)

:rolleyes:
Durant's peak is not higher than Kobe's until he has the same impact on BOTH ends of the court that Kobe from 2001-2004 had, or from 2008-2010. He is no where near Kobe's play-making ability. Did people forget how great of a facilitator Kobe was during the 3-peat Lakers and from 2008-10'.

The only thing Durant has on Kobe is efficiency.
Yet in 2008, Kobe actually was more efficient than Durant in the playoffs (57% TS vs. 58% TS).

Mind you, Kobe is also a SHOOTING GUARD at 6'6 while Durant is a hybrid SF/PF at 6'9. It's be pretty bad if Durant didn't have a higher efficiency with his height advantage.

[imdaman99]

He won't win Finals MVP. Not with my boy Goatbrook there :rockon:

[SexSymbol]

not even in the same ball park lol.
Kobe is cemented in top 5-7 range and Durant wouldn't crack top 20 with an mvp and finals mpv this years

[sdot_thadon]

Short answer, nope. Long answer, nooooope.

[BlakFrankWhite]

He already has

KD MVP season >>> Kobe's entire career

[HOoopCityJones]

He already has

KD MVP season >>> Kobe's entire career

Is that before or after you swallow him whole? :coleman:


You new age Basketball fans amaze me, just because a player has great stats, an MVP and a championship doesn't mean he automatically frog leap another well established player all time, just because you were already wanking off to his stats four years before he even won anything of note. Kobe's achievements and resume in this league is bigger than an MVP and one ring, lol.

This is why Lebron caught so much shit early on before he even won his first , you degenerate stans are ready to crown these guys the best just because they've had great stats, MVPs and one championship to compliment it.

If pretty stats were all there is to this game, Karl Malone would be the Goat PF or Wilt just the GOAT period. Hell, even Barkley would probably be considered the second best of his era if he only managed to get a ring to compliment that MVP , am I right? Hell no he wouldn't.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

He already has

KD MVP season >>> Kobe's entire career

Sup, Arby? You hopped on dat KD bandwagon already? :eek:

[sd3035]

It would put some distance between him and the rest of the top 3 (Davis and Curry)

[Lebron23]

KD stans needs to worry about Durant's injury before thinking about him winning an NBA title, and surpassing the 10th best player of all time Kobe Bryant.

[StephHamann]

Mods?

[Duderonomy]

No but he would pass Lebron :oldlol:

[JT123]

Yes, yes he will

[20Four]

Yes, yes he will
:roll: :roll: :roll:

sad thing is nobody gives 2 shits about you :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Fudge]

He already has

KD MVP season >>> Kobe's entire career
:applause:

[SouBeachTalents]

Kobe, no. But he'd certainly have an argument all time against the likes of Wade, Dirk, and KG

[Levity]

retarded thread is retarded.

[tmacattack33]

2014 Durant was better than any version of we've ever seen. If he can play at that level for a few seasons he'd eclipse Kobe. If he can get at least two rings as the primary option, this will be a slight majority opinion by 2020. If not, it will be a minority opinion, but may still be the correct one.

[JellyBean]

Nope.

[Cold soul]

No way in hell highly unlikely Durant surpasses Kobe.

[Vaniiiia]

Yes, easily....

He's been the man since day 1 and has already peaked higher than Kobe.

"But 5 ringz doe"

Who gives a ****...

Durant's peak is coinciding with maybe the toughest conference the sport has ever seen.

The two titles Pau and Odom carried Kobe to later on came against shitty competition, and dude shot 6-24 in a game 7.

Why do people even compare beta sidekicks like Kobe to guys like LeBron and Durant who have been the man since day 1 and literally carry franchises? I'll never understand that.

[Rocketswin2013]

He could never win another MVP and still surpass him.

[Vaniiiia]

He could never win another MVP and still surpass him.
Yeah. Hell anyone who knows the game will tell you Durant is the better player, teammate, and leader. It isn't even close.

Kobe only managed to win 1 MVP in his entire career and even that was a bullshit, career achievement award. Nobody actually considers Kobe the MVP of that year.

Durant beat out prime Lebron and put up one of the best overall seasons in the history of the sport and carried his shitty team to 60 wins. You put peak Kobe on that team in place of Durant and they lose 20-30 games off their record. That's not even an exaggeration. The best of Durant so far is already light years ahead of kobe.

Durant deserves the MVP every single year for turning around the OKC franchise into a perennial contender. He single-handedly changed the culture.

Kobe is the opposite. The Lakers went from prestigious winning franchise to one of the most dysfunctional and laughed at organizations in sports during his 'reign' as sidekick. Kobe is quite literally a cancer.

[chazzy]

I like how these Lebron stans are so comfortable saying 2014 Durant is better than any Kobe, but will be quick to use the usual "Westbrook is the alpha, CP3 locked him down" rhetoric if you compare him to Lebron that season.

[iznogood]

He does if he wins another Nickelodeon award.

[Showtime2001]

Yeah. Hell anyone who knows the game will tell you Durant is the better player, teammate, and leader. It isn't even close.

Kobe only managed to win 1 MVP in his entire career and even that was a bullshit, career achievement award. Nobody actually considers Kobe the MVP of that year.

Durant beat out prime Lebron and put up one of the best overall seasons in the history of the sport and carried his shitty team to 60 wins. You put peak Kobe on that team in place of Durant and they lose 20-30 games off their record. That's not even an exaggeration. The best of Durant so far is already light years ahead of kobe.

Durant deserves the MVP every single year for turning around the OKC franchise into a perennial contender. He single-handedly changed the culture.

Kobe is the opposite. The Lakers went from prestigious winning franchise to one of the most dysfunctional and laughed at organizations in sports during his 'reign' as sidekick. Kobe is quite literally a cancer.
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m608og47Rc1r8ds81.gif

http://d1warraxuf7xh1.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/KobeMVP.jpg
http://lakers.topbuzz.com/gallery/d/270395-2/Kobe+Bryant+hoists+his+NBA+Finals+MVP+trophy.jpg
http://www.officialpsds.com/images/thumbs/Kobe-Bryant-2010-Finals-MVP-psd49003.png
http://s9.postimg.org/lgos06epb/9t_ZCa_zps27d735f8.jpg

[Fudge]

Yeah. Hell anyone who knows the game will tell you Durant is the better player, teammate, and leader. It isn't even close.

Kobe only managed to win 1 MVP in his entire career and even that was a bullshit, career achievement award. Nobody actually considers Kobe the MVP of that year.

Durant beat out prime Lebron and put up one of the best overall seasons in the history of the sport and carried his shitty team to 60 wins. You put peak Kobe on that team in place of Durant and they lose 20-30 games off their record. That's not even an exaggeration. The best of Durant so far is already light years ahead of kobe.

Durant deserves the MVP every single year for turning around the OKC franchise into a perennial contender. He single-handedly changed the culture.

Kobe is the opposite. The Lakers went from prestigious winning franchise to one of the most dysfunctional and laughed at organizations in sports during his 'reign' as sidekick. Kobe is quite literally a cancer.
:applause: :applause: :applause:

Truth bomb.

[outbreak]

If he wins MVP, finals MVP and a champion ship this year, then wins a championship next year and another finals MVP maybe then I'd consider it close if you factor in small market and kobe having shaq. But one ring no way

[ArbitraryWater]

Sup, Arby? You hopped on dat KD bandwagon already? :eek:

lol?

[Young X]

NO.

Alot of people get too excited when it comes to crowing current/newer players. You don't just surpass an all time great off of one season. KD has what 4, maybe 5 seasons playing at an elite level? That's not enough to surpass someone who has played at that great of a level for over 10 years.

Then there's still a difference in accolades...Kobe would still have 4 more rings, one more FMVP, more All NBA 1st teams and defensive teams.

Now if he continues to play at or near his current level for 5-6 more years into his 30's while possibly getting some more accolades than we can have a discussion.

[Naero]

Is that before or after you swallow him whole? :coleman:


You new age Basketball fans amaze me, just because a player has great stats, an MVP and a championship doesn't mean he automatically frog leap another well established player all time, just because you were already wanking off to his stats four years before he even won anything of note. Kobe's achievements and resume in this league is bigger than an MVP and one ring, lol.

This is why Lebron caught so much shit early on before he even won his first , you degenerate stans are ready to crown these guys the best just because they've had great stats, MVPs and one championship to compliment it.

If pretty stats were all there is to this game, Karl Malone would be the Goat PF or Wilt just the GOAT period. Hell, even Barkley would probably be considered the second best of his era if he only managed to get a ring to compliment that MVP , am I right? Hell no he wouldn't.

You think I'm using the best-case-scenario season envisioned alone to potentially prop him up above Kevin Durant? :rolleyes:

Kevin Durant already has an impressive resume in his own right

[Jacks3]

The only thing Durant really has over Bryant is scoring efficiency. The thing is, his efficiency advantage is not there when it really matters (the post-season).


Look at Durant's post-season TS/ORTG numbers and they're not really all that better than what prime Bryant was doing and IMO Bryant is noticeably better as a passer and play-maker. I'm not sure that Durant's peak is clearly better...unless you go purely by the regular season.

[DonDadda59]

The only thing Durant really has over Bryant is scoring efficiency.

And twice as many scoring titles, including one won head to head. They already have the same # of season MVPs. Durant with a ring and another MVP doesn't eclipse Bean, but it does put him in the same strata.



Look at Durant's post-season TS/ORTG numbers and they're not really all that better than what prime Bryant was doing and IMO Bryant is noticeably better as a passer and play-maker. I'm not sure that Durant's peak is clearly better...unless you go purely by the regular season.

Durant is lucky to have come along when he did. He clearly does not play as well in the postseason when they allow more physicality. Dude gets manhandled regularly by the 6'4" Tony Allen. :facepalm

[tpols]

if you look at what makes a GOAT list a GOAT list it's titles won at high levels.

MJ has 6 titles averaging 33/6/5 + very elite closing ability
Kareem has 5 titles averaging 24/10/5 + elite big man defense
Russell has 11 titles averaging 16/25/5 + elite big man defense
Duncan has 5 titles averaging 24/13/3 + elite big man defense
Magic has 5 titles averaging 20/12/8 + co-GOAT offensive leader
Bird has 3 titles averaging 25/10/8 + co-GOAT offensive leader
Kobe has 5 titles averaging 27/6/5 + elite closing ability
Shaq has 4 titles averaging 27/13/3 + elite big man defense
Hakeem has 2 titles averaging 31/11/4 + elite big man defense
Wilt has 2 titles averaging 18/25/5 + elite big man defense




Anyone trying to break into the top 10 GOAT list at this point needs either 2 Hakeem level insane rings, or 3-4 great rings.

Since KD doesn't bring Hakeem level defense, he would need something like two 35/8/5 runs to surpass anyone on the bottom half of the top 10 GOAT list.. or he would need three to four 30/7/5 runs to rings.


Right now all hes got is a bunch of stats and no rings.. he's like a slightly better Adrian dantley at this point. Very productive scorer and great player but making the top 10 GOAT list given his current career plus one nice run to a ring ? pass it to the left please.

[TheBigVeto]

Rookie KD is better than any version of Kobe.

[red1]

this forum :roll:

I troll all the time when it comes to the chucking snitch-rapist but even for me this is too much

[sd3035]

Durant may pass Kobe soon, he's already far surpassed Lebron as much as it pains me to say

[Coach Eddie]

Yes.