Refugee crisis: Hungary deploys teargas and water cannon at Serbia border

[UK2K]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2015/sep/16/first-refugees-head-for-croatia-after-hungarys-border-crackdown-live-updates



The Hungarian police used teargas after hundreds of migrants broke through the razor wire border fence, AP reported.

The police stopped the crowd, who threw plastic water bottles at them. There were no reports of injuries. Several people were seen with tears in their eyes from the gas.

The crowd coming in from the Serbian border town of Horgos remained in front of the gate facing the police cordon. A Hungarian water cannon was parked facing them.

Earlier, an Hungarian court has found an Iraqi man guilty of “illegally crossing the border,” the first conviction based on a new law meant to stop the huge flow of migrants into Hungary.

Hungarian media reported the judge ordered the man expelled from Hungary and banned him from returning for one year. It was expected that he would be returned to Serbia, the country that many migrants have used on their way into Hungary.

The accused said he was unaware that illegal border crossing was a crime, but the judge rejected his argument, saying “ignorance of the law doesn’t excuse anybody.”

The judge said the 4-meter (13-foot) border fence surrounded by razor wire should have given him a clue. The defendant also must pay 19,050 Hungarian forints ($70) in court costs.

There's a judge I like.

Shit is getting out of hand in Europe. Prepare for an infestation.

Its crazy to watch that live feed of this going on on the other side of the world, from my nice comfy office desk.

Here's another good snippet...


When we arrived three volunteers told us that an Afghan refugee came to them asking them to look at a sandwich he was given by the Hungarian police. He wanted to know if was not pork. They confirmed it tasted like pork. The sandwiches were returned to the police, who were informed that the refugees were Muslim and therefore prohibited from eating pork.

They should feed them all pork. If you aren't willing to eat pork as opposed to starve, then that's on you.

[Patrick Chewing]

Push them back. Fight, Europe, fight!

[StephHamann]

Let's not forget who's fault this is.

Barrach Obama distabilized the middle east with his idiotic policy.

He will go down as the president who is responsible for the downfall of Europe.

[HitandRun Reggie]

Let's not forget who's fault this is.

Barrach Obama distabilized the middle east with his idiotic policy.

He will go down as the president who is responsible for the downfall of Europe.


So did Bush with Sadaam. We seem to forget every few years that the middle east needs strong, oppressive regimes to bring order to these primitive people and their culture.

[Patrick Chewing]

The removal of a U.S. presence was the mistake. Who cares if Saddam was ousted. The Middle East was quiet the last day Bush was in office. Since then....Jesus. Arab Spring, Qaddafi killed, ISIS, Iran Deal, Al-Assad, etc. Is there an Arab country not mired in a civil war?


Obama and his cronies literally thought that they were doing the world a favor by leaving that region alone.

[fiddy]

So did Bush with Sadaam. We seem to forget every few years that the middle east needs strong, oppressive regimes to bring order to these primitive people and their culture.
U.S. has been "silently" preparing the stage for WW3 for years, RIP Europe.

[NumberSix]

Let's not forget who's fault this is.

Barrach Obama distabilized the middle east with his idiotic policy.

He will go down as the president who is responsible for the downfall of Europe.
To be fair, the Bush administration has blame for this too.

[UK2K]

To be fair, the Bush administration has blame for this too.

Whoever thought people in the ME could be civilized and join the 21st century is at fault.

[Nick Young]

To be fair, the Bush administration has blame for this too.
To be fair, the Middle East was an unstable region full of infighting and barbarity for the last 3,000 years, even before the advent of Islam.

[gigantes]

bush taking down saddam was the single biggest factor as i see it. just a monumental fail.

the US later pulling out of iraq was what pretty much everyone in the states wanted. if anything, plenty of people blamed obama for not pulling out fast enough.

[NumberSix]

bush taking down saddam was the single biggest factor as i see it. just a monumental fail.

the US later pulling out of iraq was what pretty much everyone in the states wanted. if anything, plenty of people blamed obama for not pulling out fast enough.
You can't put the blame on Bush for Libya.

[gigantes]

You can't put the blame on Bush for Libya.
i don't recall doing so.

libya was an international coalition IIRC.

[UK2K]

bush taking down saddam was the single biggest factor as i see it. just a monumental fail.

the US later pulling out of iraq was what pretty much everyone in the states wanted. if anything, plenty of people blamed obama for not pulling out fast enough.

The stupid ones.

Unfortunately, they scream the loudest. There was never any shortage of volunteers from any branch of service for deployments to Iraq, it was the American people that surrendered.

Easiest way to beat America, get the population to quit. The strategy has been repeated from Korea, to Vietnam, to the ME today. The American people are soft.

[gigantes]

well, maintenance isn't sexy.

starting a war on the other hand...

[StephHamann]

bush taking down saddam was the single biggest factor as i see it. just a monumental fail.

the US later pulling out of iraq was what pretty much everyone in the states wanted. if anything, plenty of people blamed obama for not pulling out fast enough.

Obama gave ISIS the ressources and money to fight Assad. This ****ing idiot.

[Nick Young]

Obama gave ISIS the ressources and money to fight Assad. This ****ing idiot.
Obama tried to market ISIS to the US people as "noble freedom fighting rebels":facepalm

This man is no better than Bush. If anything he is worse.

[StephHamann]

Obama tried to market ISIS to the US people as "noble freedom fighting rebels":facepalm

This man is no better than Bush. If anything he is worse.

Bush was evil, Obama is just stupid.

[imdaman99]

They should feed them all pork. If you aren't willing to eat pork as opposed to starve, then that's on you.
I'd like to see you force a bunch of Muslims into eating pork :lol

Making threads on the internet doesn't make you a badass dude, give it up.

[gigantes]

Obama gave ISIS the ressources and money to fight Assad. This ****ing idiot.
speak for yourself, chumpy.

but yeah, destabilising a region goes hand in hand with dangerous states springing up, whatever the movement is.

[Nick Young]

Bush was evil, Obama is just stupid.
It is the opposite. Bush was stupid. Obama is evil.

[KNOW1EDGE]

I'd like to see you force a bunch of Muslims into eating pork :lol

Making threads on the internet doesn't make you a badass dude, give it up.


Let me know if you ever need someone to talk to, I can tell you have a lot of pent up frustration towards white people, white males in particular. Did somebody hurt you?

And I think the point he was making is that he indeed would not force them to eat the pork, but rather give them the option to eat food or die of starvation

[Real Men Wear Green]

I do get that a country has the right, even the responsibility to not overburden it's citizens with refugees. If your resources are stretched too thin it can definitely be a problem. What is ridiculous however is how some of you seem to revel in these refugees being abused. Acting like they should be punished for seeking a way out of their own war-torn country.

[Nick Young]

Let me know if you ever need someone to talk to, I can tell you have a lot of pent up frustration towards white people, white males in particular. Did somebody hurt you?

And I think the point he was making is that he indeed would not force them to eat the pork, but rather give them the option to eat food or die of starvation
He is Turkish. Turkish people are white.
http://www.edirnebasket.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Turkiye.jpg
http://media.worldbulletin.net/250x190/2011/07/03/basket.jpg

[UK2K]

I'd like to see you force a bunch of Muslims into eating pork :lol

Making threads on the internet doesn't make you a badass dude, give it up.

I wouldn't force them to eat anything.

I'd give them the option to eat it, or not. Preferably, not.

[NumberSix]

It is the opposite. Bush was stupid. Obama is evil.
Obama is not evil. He like too many people are blinded by ideology over reality.

[NumberSix]

I do get that a country has the right, even the responsibility to not overburden it's citizens with refugees. If your resources are stretched too thin it can definitely be a problem. What is ridiculous however is how some of you seem to revel in these refugees being abused. Acting like they should be punished for seeking a way out of their own war-torn country.
I agree with your overall sentiment, but at some point we have to accept reality. The vast majority of these people are in fact not refugees. There are genuine refugees, but the majority of the people are just seeing this as their opportunity to get into rich countries.

[Real Men Wear Green]

I agree with your overall sentiment, but at some point we have to accept reality. The vast majority of these people are in fact not refugees. There are genuine refugees, but the majority of the people are just seeing this as their opportunity to get into rich countries.
There is a "genuine" war going on with innocent people getting hurt and killed. What percentage of the refugees aren't legit is something none of us really knows.

[9erempiree]

Muslims need to assimilate and hot dogs are a staple of American culture.

Eat it or GTFO.

[Nick Young]

Obama is not evil. He like too many people are blinded by ideology over reality.
he has done too much phucked up shit for me to give him the benefit of the doubt like you have. Remember when he assassinated US citizens with drones without giving them fair trial?

[zoom17]

US obsession with Syria and wanting to get rid of Assad is a big reason for the refugee crisis.

[Trollsmasher]

Hungary is being pretty clever

Those who cross the border illegally (not on a legitimate crossing) are charged with illegal crossing and then quickly tried and sentenced in mobile courts. Those are then deported back to Serbia and are given a criminal record which prevents them from entering Schengen anywhere for 1-10 years (not exactly sure about this one)

Those who come at a legal crossing are either:

1) not allowed in without a Schengen visa

or

They can claim asylum, however then they are:

1) processed incredibly slowly (like 50 people a day)

2) deported back to Serbia anyway because Serbia has been deemed a safe country (even though "the safe country" was supposed to be only about the country of origin). I supposed they are also taking an advantage of a certain wording in the Refugee Convention that says you have to come directly from the place where your life is threatened to count as a refugee and these people are not coming exactly directly

More and more people are now moving towards Croatia so Magyars have pretty much succeeded at defending their border. Croatia right now is just busing migrants to Slovenia, but Austria have already started checking Slovenian border the same way they do with Hungary. Slovenians said they won't allow refugees through to the north and that they will have to claim asylum there, but they will likely be overwhelmed very quickly as their capacity is minimal. Then they will likely close the border too and Croatia will be forced to do the same.

[9erempiree]

Hungary is being pretty clever

Those who cross the border illegally (not on a legitimate crossing) are charged with illegal crossing and then quickly tried and sentenced in mobile courts. Those are then deported back to Serbia and are given a criminal record which prevents them from entering Schengen anywhere for 1-10 years (not exactly sure about this one)

Those who come at a legal crossing are either:
1) not allowed in without a Schengen visa

or

They can claim asylum, however then they are:

1) processed incredibly slowly (like 50 a day)

2) deported back to Serbia anyway because Serbia has been deemed a safe country (even though "the safe country" was supposed to be only about the country of origin). I supposed they are also taking an advantage of a certain wording in the Refugee Convention that says you have to come directly from the place where your life is threatened to count as a refugee and these people are not coming exactly directly

Thanks for clarifying and that seems very fair.

[gigantes]

Let me know if you ever need someone to talk to, I can tell you have a lot of pent up frustration towards white people, white males in particular. Did somebody hurt you?

And I think the point he was making is that he indeed would not force them to eat the pork, but rather give them the option to eat food or die of starvation
How did you jump from a religion issue to a skin-color issue?

I am at dinner, jumping on a lull. I might have missed something i dont know, thanks

[imdaman99]

How did you jump from a religion issue to a skin-color issue?

I am at dinner, jumping on a lull. I might have missed something i dont know, thanks
He's not very bright, clearly projecting :lol I am not anti white male, I'm anti bigotry which he clearly is.

[gigantes]

He's not very bright, clearly projecting :lol I am not anti white male, I'm anti bigotry which he clearly is.
i can work with that... thank you imdaman99, i suspect we'll meet again.

[knickballer]

There is a "genuine" war going on with innocent people getting hurt and killed. What percentage of the refugees aren't legit is something none of us really knows.

Alot of people consider them migrants at this point because they passed several "safe" countries like Turkey, Lebanon and they all refused to register in the first EU country they entered(usually Greece or Hungary) because they want to go to Germany or Sweden due to favorable welfare policies. People argue at that point they stop becoming refugees and more like migrants. There's also the fact that 72% of them are young males(20-30years) and alot of other ethnicities like Afghanis, Pakistanis, Libyans, etc.

Not sure if you're referring to the migrants/refugees getting hurt but the police have been nothing but helpful for them. Feeding them, assisting them in the routes and making sure the migrants don't kill each other.

EU is going to dump alot of money into attempting to assimilate all these people in the next coming years. They could have literally built cities in Jordan or Lebanon with that money and help 10x the amount of people that are in more dire circumstances.

[9erempiree]

You become a migrant once you step outside the first safe house (country) that is neighboring the country you are escaping.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Alot of people consider them migrants at this point because they passed several "safe" countries like Turkey, Lebanon and they all refused to register in the first EU country they entered(usually Greece or Hungary) because they want to go to Germany or Sweden due to favorable welfare policies. People argue at that point they stop becoming refugees and more like migrants. There's also the fact that 72% of them are young males(20-30years) and alot of other ethnicities like Afghanis, Pakistanis, Libyans, etc.

Not sure if you're referring to the migrants/refugees getting hurt but the police have been nothing but helpful for them. Feeding them, assisting them in the routes and making sure the migrants don't kill each other.

EU is going to dump alot of money into attempting to assimilate all these people in the next coming years. They could have literally built cities in Jordan or Lebanon with that money and help 10x the amount of people that are in more dire circumstances.Refugee-to-migrant conversion is a fair point but this thread is about these refugees/migrants being hit with tear gas and water cannons.

[NumberSix]

Refugee-to-migrant conversion is a fair point but this thread is about these refugees/migrants being hit with tear gas and water cannons.
There's video of them attacking the border police before getting sprayed. I know its a better story to leave that part out and just show them getting sprayed, but that didn't just randomly happen out of the blue.

[Nick Young]

Refugee-to-migrant conversion is a fair point but this thread is about these refugees/migrants being hit with tear gas and water cannons.
Maybe if they didn't rip through a border walled with razor wire and chain link fence and attack the police of the country they are trying to illegally migrate through, the Hungarian police wouldn't have had to deploy tear gas and water cannons?:confusedshrug:

[poido123]

There's video of them attacking the border police before getting sprayed. I know its a better story to leave that part out and just show them getting sprayed, but that didn't just randomly happen out of the blue.


This.


i'm tired of the leftist media bias. Just report it as it is.

[bluechox2]

europe getting drilled up and anus...they should start preparing to learn how to assimilate with their new inhabitants as they wont be leaving

[Nick Young]

europe getting drilled up and anus...they should start preparing to learn how to assimilate with their new inhabitants as they wont be leaving
Europe has already been living with assimilation for years. The consequences (http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-28939089) haven't (http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/5195/sweden-rape) been (https://themuslimissue.wordpress.com/2012/08/06/norway-90-of-all-violent-rapes-in-oslo-committed-by-muslims/) pretty (http://www.amren.com/news/2012/07/rape-jihad-in-denmark-more-than-half-of-all-convicted-rapists-have-immigrant-backgrounds/).

[Patrick Chewing]

Oktoberfest is already being boycotted.


It insults their prophet.

[poido123]

Oktoberfest is already being boycotted.


It insults their prophet.



:biggums:

[Nick Young]

They have the right to boycott though. That's completely 100% fine and should be allowed and applauded in a free democratic country. It is only bad if people start calling for Oktoberfest to be banned completely, and doing stupid violent things to try to disrupt it.

[rezznor]

europe getting drilled up and anus...they should start preparing to learn how to assimilate with their new inhabitants as they wont be leaving
as long as these guys don't start demanding sharia law be enforced once they settle into their new western communities...i hate ingrates.

[knickballer]

how long after these guys settle in their new western communities and start demanding sharia law be enforced?

Thing is that Europe is extremely tolerant with third world immigration. They have this belief that extremely religious people from wartorn countries will suddenly give a boost to Europe because of multiculturalism. The media claims that there's many "educated" people in the refugees that will give the economy a boost but we all know that majority of these people probably didn't finish their basic schooling. Do people really think there's a bunch of doctors and engineers in these crowds?

If you accept people like this in large droves you need to do some checks and you need to force them to behave. Check if they're actually Syrian, do some psychologist tests to see if their extreme, etc. Then force them to learn the language and sign some sort of waiver before they are actually given entrance. But that's ofc racist and their not even doing simple border controls. They're allowing everyone in no questions ask.

At the end of the day uncontrolled immigration keeps big corporations winning. They get an influx of low skilled workers who will further drive down wages in the marketplace.

Furthermore it's going to cost something like 20k+ a year per refugee..

[Patrick Chewing]

as long as these guys don't start demanding sharia law be enforced once they settle into their new western communities...i hate ingrates.

Wishful thinking. Plenty of Arab communities in Europe are already clamoring for Sharia. Let's face it, Sharia is derived from the religious precepts of Islam. They would be going against Islam and the Prophet if they do not have Sharia.

Europe is lost. Goodbye to 2000 years of history.

[senelcoolidge]

The English, the German, these guys were considered badasses once, how did they become such puzsies? How can people tolerate this, they are watching their countries die before their eyes.

[Trollsmasher]

Oktoberfest is already being boycotted.


It insults their prophet.
lol that petion comes from /pol/

don't trust everything, man

[NumberSix]

The English, the German, these guys were considered badasses once, how did they become such puzsies? How can people tolerate this, they are watching their countries die before their eyes.
The kids of rich people are much softer than than their parents who started from nothing and worked their way up to wealth. Freedom and prosperity was given to the current generation, not earned.

[UK2K]

The kids of rich people are much softer than than their parents who started from nothing and worked their way up to wealth. Freedom and prosperity was given to the current generation, not earned.
This.

And it's abundantly clear in my generation. A generation that thinks they deserve shit just for being alive.

[NumberSix]

I never understood the country Hungry. Like, if they're so hungry all the time why don't they just invade Turkey?
Because it's border is covered with Greece.

[UK2K]

Because it's border is covered with Greece.
Wow.

Woah.

[poido123]

For the hardcore lefties:

http://www.infowars.com/migrant-crisis-the-footage-the-media-refuses-to-broadcast/


Those poor, desperate Refugees :rolleyes:

[chips93]

man, you guys have zero compassion

[poido123]

man, you guys have zero compassion


Most of these people are not true refugees.


Opportunistic men deserting their families to find a paradise. Trojan horse for ISIS too no doubt.


Don't be fooled

[chips93]

Most of these people are not true refugees.


Opportunistic men deserting their families to find a paradise. Trojan horse for ISIS too no doubt.


Don't be fooled

do you have any proof?

you just sound paranoid and xenophobic



The way i see it is if people are willing to risk their lives drowning at sea to get here, they must truly be depserate and in need, certainly relative to european living standards.

their only crime was being unlucky enough to be born in the wrong part of the world (it could be argued that its because of western intervention that their country has fallen apart), while we as europeans we're much luckier.

[UK2K]

do you have any proof?

you just sound paranoid and xenophobic



The way i see it is if people are willing to risk their lives drowning at sea to get here, they must truly be depserate and in need, certainly relative to european living standards.

their only crime was being unlucky enough to be born in the wrong part of the world (it could be argued that its because of western intervention that their country has fallen apart), while we as europeans we're much luckier.

Liberal buzz word! 20 points, and a bonus 10 points for it being before noon.

[chips93]

Liberal buzz word! 20 points, and a bonus 10 points for it being before noon.

its very easy to label something a buzzword. its a cop out so you can just dismiss the topic at hand, and not really have to think about the issues.

its a great tool close minded people use to stay close minded.

what evidence is there that proves that these people in need are terrorists? people are literally afraid of them because they are different, and assuming the worst. If that isnt xenophobia, I dont know what is.

[UK2K]

its very easy to label something a buzzword. its a cop out so you can just dismiss the topic at hand, and not really have to think about the issues.

its a great tool close minded people use to stay close minded.

what evidence is there that proves that these people in need are terrorists? people are literally afraid of them because they are different, and assuming the worst. If that isnt xenophobia, I dont know what is.

And its really easy to try and label someone xenophobic too.

And there is no evidence, but there's also no evidence they aren't, because we don't know who the **** they are.

Do you know who I am? Would you allow me into your house without introducing myself? What are you afraid of? Is it cause I'm different?

[Patrick Chewing]

what evidence is there that proves that these people in need are terrorists?


I don't think terrorists go around announcing they are terrorists. The object of a terrorist attack is to have it happen without it being discovered beforehand.

I'm more concerned with the undeniable fact that these people do not assimilate. They overwhelm and conquer, and before you know it, a European nation has lost a thousand of years of history and culture to the crescent moon cult.

[imdaman99]

Most of these people are not true refugees.

Opportunistic men deserting their families to find a paradise. Trojan horse for ISIS too no doubt.

Don't be fooled
Are you back on the wagon? I thought you changed for the better :oldlol:

We have you saying they are ISIS and we have others who are convinced they just want to work on their tans and sip their fine beverages while collecting handouts.

How about they want the best chance for making a living in a developed country? Why always assume the worst? Believe me, I hate ISIS and hate the ones who don't do shit for their welfare, but I don't always assume the worst in people simply because of their religion.

Lighten up and look at it from their point of view.

[UK2K]

Are you back on the wagon? I thought you changed for the better :oldlol:

We have you saying they are ISIS and we have others who are convinced they just want to work on their tans and sip their fine beverages while collecting handouts.

How about they want the best chance for making a living in a developed country? Why always assume the worst? Believe me, I hate ISIS and hate the ones who don't do shit for their welfare, but I don't always assume the worst in people simply because of their religion.

Lighten up and look at it from their point of view.

I don't blame the women and children for running, except I wonder why they chose to run to Europe and not other Arab countries (I don't really wonder, I know why).

I think the men are shit though.

[Nick Young]

do you have any proof?

you just sound paranoid and xenophobic



The way i see it is if people are willing to risk their lives drowning at sea to get here, they must truly be depserate and in need, certainly relative to european living standards.

their only crime was being unlucky enough to be born in the wrong part of the world (it could be argued that its because of western intervention that their country has fallen apart), while we as europeans we're much luckier.
That's a retarded way to see it.

The way I see it is, people who actually are refuges shouldn't get to pick and choose the country they want to flee to based on who gives out the most cushy social benefits.

[Nick Young]

its very easy to label something a buzzword. its a cop out so you can just dismiss the topic at hand, and not really have to think about the issues.

its a great tool close minded people use to stay close minded.

what evidence is there that proves that these people in need are terrorists? people are literally afraid of them because they are different, and assuming the worst. If that isnt xenophobia, I dont know what is.
Why are these poor noble refuges throwing back free food and sandwiches they are given, and why are they attacking innocent civilians of the countries they want to migrate to with rocks?

http://www.infowars.com/migrant-crisis-the-footage-the-media-refuses-to-broadcast/

[nightprowler10]

This.

And it's abundantly clear in my generation. A generation that thinks they deserve shit just for being alive.
While I somewhat agree with that, is there a worse generation than baby boomers in this regard? They ****ed everything up yet still hold too much power to let anyone change anything that makes things the slight bit uncomfortable for them. It's the generation that stole everything from their children after being given everything from their parents. What's that saying? "The greatest generation gave birth to the worst generation." Absolutely ****ing true.

[NumberSix]

do you have any proof?

you just sound paranoid and xenophobic



The way i see it is if people are willing to risk their lives drowning at sea to get here, they must truly be depserate and in need, certainly relative to european living standards.
Being poor =/= refugees


their only crime was being unlucky enough to be born in the wrong part of the world (it could be argued that its because of western intervention that their country has fallen apart), while we as europeans we're much luckier.
It has nothing to do with luck. Europe is rich because Europeans made it rich.

[NumberSix]

its very easy to label something a buzzword. its a cop out so you can just dismiss the topic at hand, and not really have to think about the issues.

its a great tool close minded people use to stay close minded.

what evidence is there that proves that these people in need are terrorists? people are literally afraid of them because they are different, and assuming the worst. If that isnt xenophobia, I dont know what is.
You act like "xenophobia" is in itself some kind of "crack mate" argument.

Let's assume you're completely right for the sake of argument. It's strictly a matter of xenophobia. Ok, and?

[9erempiree]

Immigration is a real problem.

They are now disguising it as refuge.

Huge problems.

[UK2K]

Immigration is a real problem.

They are now disguising it as refuge.

Huge problems.
Immigration isn't a problem.

It's mass, unchecked immigration that has become a problem. And its what the immigrants do once they arrive that's become a problem.

[Bosnian Sajo]

I agree with your overall sentiment, but at some point we have to accept reality. The vast majority of these people are in fact not refugees. There are genuine refugees, but the majority of the people are just seeing this as their opportunity to get into rich countries.



Do you guys seriously believe this? You're so out of touch with reality, it's staggering. You think they'd WALK days on end and be cramped in buses, climb through the windows, sleep on the floor just for a better opportunity? They are running for their lives dude, how can you guys say such things? 7 million people displaced from their homes, 3.9 million refugees who already left the country (20 million pre war population) and you think they are doing this just to get into "rich countries"?

Come on man, get off of the computer and interact with people, you've become dehumanized.

[9erempiree]

Do you guys seriously believe this? You're so out of touch with reality, it's staggering. You think they'd WALK days on end and be cramped in buses, climb through the windows, sleep on the floor just for a better opportunity? They are running for their lives dude, how can you guys say such things? 7 million people displaced from their homes, 3.9 million refugees who already left the country (20 million pre war population) and you think they are doing this just to get into "rich countries"?

Come on man, get off of the computer and interact with people, you've become dehumanized.


They are not running for their lives and they are not forced to walk days on end.

They can easily seek refuge in the nearest country.

Greed is a great motivating factor. Also, a majority of these so-called refugees are men.

[UK2K]

Do you guys seriously believe this? You're so out of touch with reality, it's staggering. You think they'd WALK days on end and be cramped in buses, climb through the windows, sleep on the floor just for a better opportunity? They are running for their lives dude, how can you guys say such things? 7 million people displaced from their homes, 3.9 million refugees who already left the country (20 million pre war population) and you think they are doing this just to get into "rich countries"?

Come on man, get off of the computer and interact with people, you've become dehumanized.

Hispanics are doing that every day on our southern border, yet you're surprised to see it elsewhere?

Odd.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/08/world/gulf-states-syrian-refugee-crisis/

[Bosnian Sajo]

Thing is that Europe is extremely tolerant with third world immigration. They have this belief that extremely religious people from wartorn countries will suddenly give a boost to Europe because of multiculturalism. The media claims that there's many "educated" people in the refugees that will give the economy a boost but we all know that majority of these people probably didn't finish their basic schooling. Do people really think there's a bunch of doctors and engineers in these crowds?



Do we all know that? You guys are ridiculous, I swear.


Here is another fact, majority of Albanians are uneducated. Pulled it right from my ass, but we all know that the majority of things that come out of my ass are true.

[Bosnian Sajo]

They are not running for their lives and they are not forced to walk days on end.

They can easily seek refuge in the nearest country.

Greed is a great motivating factor. Also, a majority of these so-called refugees are men.

Do you know how this all works bud? You think Turkey/Hungary/Greece can take on all 3.9m? Pretty sure EU is trying to spread them out, so that not one country takes on too many to the point where they become a hindrance to their economy.

[9erempiree]

What's going on right now is similar to Americas Black Friday shopping. You have a mass of people dashing to one place which is dangerous if women and kids were around. If they were truly running for their lives then should seek the first safe area and get shelter for their families. Why risk their lives with no food or money? Because they have none and want assistance and they happen to be young aged males who probably want that fancy lifestyle and its all free.

[Bosnian Sajo]

Hispanics are doing that every day on our southern border, yet you're surprised to see it elsewhere?

Odd.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/08/world/gulf-states-syrian-refugee-crisis/

Thanks for posting that article

Turkey has taken in nearly 2 million refugees; Lebanon more than 1.1 million; Jordan at least 629,000. Egypt has played a role, too, welcoming more than 130,000, and even Iraq, a country still ravaged by violence, has accepted nearly 250,000 refugees. More have likely crossed into those countries without being counted.

hmmm...yet according to the expert posters in this thread, they are all declining those countries and instead waiting to go to Germany. remember, atm it's 3.9m refugees out of Syria. Also in that article it states that although UAE is not taking in refugees (they are however allowingpeople in with visas), they have donated 530m to the UN for the refugees. The gulf countries should still be doing much much much more, shameful that they aren't the biggest players helping the poor what with them being the richest. While Lebanon, Jordan, an Turkey are playing a big role for these displaced people.

[Nick Young]

Do you know how this all works bud? You think Turkey/Hungary/Greece can take on all 3.9m? Pretty sure EU is trying to spread them out, so that not one country takes on too many to the point where they become a hindrance to their economy.
XD You think they are targeting the UK and Germany because it's the only choice they have? They do have a choice. Follow the rules and follow the immigration processes properly.

No one is forcing them to throw rocks at people. No one is forcing them to not accept the water and food that aid workers are giving them. No one is forcing them to avoid certain countries so they can target the ones that have the cushiest welfare benefits like UK and Germany.

A majority of these "refuges" are actually from Pakistan and aren't even Syrian.

[Bosnian Sajo]

What's going on right now is similar to Americas Black Friday shopping. You have a mass of people dashing to one place which is dangerous if women and kids were around. If they were truly running for their lives then should seek the first safe area and get shelter for their families. Why risk their lives with no food or money? Because they have none and want assistance and they happen to be young aged males who probably want that fancy lifestyle and its all free.



That's right folks, 9er just compared refugees from a worn torn country to black friday shoppers buying xbox's and ps4's for christmas.

[Bosnian Sajo]

XD You think they are targeting the UK and Germany because it's the only choice they have? They do have a choice. Follow the rules and follow the immigration processes properly.

No one is forcing them to throw rocks at people. No one is forcing them to not accept the water and food that aid workers are giving them. No one is forcing them to avoid certain countries so they can target the ones that have the cushiest welfare benefits like UK and Germany.

A majority of these "refuges" are actually from Pakistan and aren't even Syrian.

Quit using the word majority, you guys for the majority of this conversation have been talking out of your asses. Most of these people are from Syria nick, that's where the war is, quite bullshitting.


And check out the article U2k posted, see how many people are saying no to Turkey and neighbouring countries.

[Nick Young]

That's right folks, 9er just compared refugees from a worn torn country to black friday shoppers buying xbox's and ps4's for christmas.
Why do a majority of these refuges from a "war torn country" come from Pakistan?:confusedshrug:

Where are the women and children, breh?:confusedshrug:

[9erempiree]

I thought refugees would be grateful to be alive from their war-torn former homes but refugees now have demands. You would think being alive is enough but it seems like they now want demands such as...country XYZ does not provide me with certain assistance that country ABC does.

Holy cow is this getting out of hand. Living in a country in war is like hitting the lottery...you get to relocate to the place of your choice.

These kind of precedents can spark more civil wars within certain countries and give the population a reason and a chance to go elsewhere. Not just elsewhere either, to a country of their liking.

[Bosnian Sajo]

Sorry, I was wrong about UAE giving only 500m. According to CNN, The UAE, which has a gross domestic product of $570 billion, has given $4.7 billion. USA has given 550m (America :rockon: ), UK and Kuwait has also donated hundreds of millions of dollars. So the argument about the UN "wasting their money" on the refugees takes a huge dive seeing as multiple bullions of dollars has been donated to them for the cause of relief for the refugees.

[Bosnian Sajo]

I thought refugees would be grateful to be alive from their war-torn former homes but refugees now have demands. You would think being alive is enough but it seems like they now want demands such as...country XYZ does not provide me with certain assistance that country ABC does.

Holy cow is this getting out of hand. Living in a country in war is like hitting the lottery...you get to relocate to the place of your choice.

These kind of precedents can spark more civil wars within certain countries and give the population a reason and a chance to go elsewhere. Not just elsewhere either, to a country of their liking.


I truly hope that one day you have to go through an atrocity such as war and be left with nothing, that is the only way it seems you'll ever become level headed again. Never wished anything for anyone bad, but I truly hope it happens to you 9er. I'd love to see what tune you'll be singing then, what with you being used to being coddled all your life.

[Bosnian Sajo]

Why do a majority of these refuges from a "war torn country" come from Pakistan?:confusedshrug:

Where are the women and children, breh?:confusedshrug:

A majority of the children are hidding in their fathers hats while the majority of women have teleported to their select destination. Majority are rich af and a majority are poor af. Majority of them are from Syria, but at the same time a majority of them are from Pakistan.

In the end, the majority will stay in Europe while the remaining majority will eventually go back. You following the majority of things I'm saying here breh, you followin me cuz?

[ArbitraryWater]

do you have any proof?

you just sound paranoid and xenophobic



The way i see it is if people are willing to risk their lives drowning at sea to get here, they must truly be depserate and in need, certainly relative to european living standards.

their only crime was being unlucky enough to be born in the wrong part of the world (it could be argued that its because of western intervention that their country has fallen apart), while we as europeans we're much luckier.

plus, 40-50% of these people now suffer from post traumatic disorders...

[UK2K]

Why do a majority of these refuges from a "war torn country" come from Pakistan?:confusedshrug:

Where are the women and children, breh?:confusedshrug:

The problem is, the refugees are 75% male, and many are not from Syria.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/11843189/EU-refugee-crisis-Migrants-in-Bicske-station-Hungary-siege-continues-overnight-live.html

They're not stupid, just like Hispanics crossing the southern border aren't stupid. They're going to chuck their passport unless it says Syria on it. No different than Hispanics coming over here and knowing exactly what to say (I feared for my life from cartel violence) to be able to stay here.

[Bosnian Sajo]

plus, majority of these people now suffer from post traumatic disorders...

Fixed, otherwise nick will have no idea wtf you're trying to say.





Yall should be journalists the way information just comes to you guys, it's fascinating. Take advantage of your god given skills, ISHiots.

[ArbitraryWater]

simple it up for dem murricans :applause:

[Bosnian Sajo]

The United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees — which refers refugees for resettlement in other countries — says there are more than 4 million registered Syrian refugees. Its figures on the demographic makeup of refugees is based on available data on the 2.1 million who were registered by the UNHCR in Egypt, Iraq, Jordan and Lebanon. (Another 1.9 million Syrian refugees were registered by the Government of Turkey, and more than 24,000 were registered in North Africa.)
UNHCR’s data show that 50.5 percent of refugees are women. Females age 18 to 59 make up 23.9 percent of the refugees, while males in that age group make up 21.8 percent.
Even younger males — age 12 to 17 — represent 6.5 percent of refugees, while females that age are 6.1 percent. The majority of refugees — 51.1 percent — are under age 17, including 38.5 percent who are younger than 12 years old. These numbers were as of Sept. 6.
We have seen a different set of UNHCR numbers cited on a few conservative websites — figures for refugees and migrants who have tried to enter Europe by crossing the Mediterranean Sea. There have been more than 400,000 such “sea arrivals” in 2015, and 51 percent are Syrian. The rest have come mainly from nine other countries. Most of these refugees and migrants have been men — 72 percent — but these are not figures on Syrian refugees or even solely the 200,000-some Syrians who have been willing to take some type of boat to reach Europe by sea.


Just so you guys who actually care understand where the "72% male, 75% are male" comments are coming from. So of the 400k sea arrivals, 72% were male but only 200k of those people are Syrian. Now I see where the majority comments are coming from, conservatives are focusing on only a small number of migrants and refugees coming via the Mediterranean sea.

[Bosnian Sajo]

Please guys, don't make a habit of talking out of your asses without fact checking, it'll make you look like a real pompous, arrogant douche irl.

[KirbyPls]

While I somewhat agree with that, is there a worse generation than baby boomers in this regard? They ****ed everything up yet still hold too much power to let anyone change anything that makes things the slight bit uncomfortable for them. It's the generation that stole everything from their children after being given everything from their parents. What's that saying? "The greatest generation gave birth to the worst generation." Absolutely ****ing true.

:applause:

[chips93]

It has nothing to do with luck. Europe is rich because Europeans made it rich.

and i was only lucky to be born to europeans. i didnt earn any of it, i was just born into it.

im 22. my college was paid for by the government. i didnt grow up around any realy violence or hardship, and because of these factors, which are entirely out of my control, i'm gonna have a relatively easy life.

its by pure luck that i was born in europe, and i have had such an easy life.

its not fair that people unlucky enough to be born in worse off parts of the world have to struggle when we can help.

so if you wanna go be paranoid about ISIS and terrorists, go ahead, theres enough compassionate countries out there willing to help without you.

[Nick Young]

and i was only lucky to be born to europeans. i didnt earn any of it, i was just born into it.

im 22. my college was paid for by the government. i didnt grow up around any realy violence or hardship, and because of these factors, which are entirely out of my control, i'm gonna have a relatively easy life.

its by pure luck that i was born in europe, and i have had such an easy life.

its not fair that people unlucky enough to be born in worse off parts of the world have to struggle when we can help.

so if you wanna go be paranoid about ISIS and terrorists, go ahead, theres enough compassionate countries out there willing to help without you.
The world isn't fair. Life isn't fair. Some people are born kings, some people are born in a gutter. Some people are born blind with no arms and legs, some people are born with 20/20 vision and world class athleticism. Some people live to be 110 years old. Some people die of lung cancer when they're 5. Some people are born in palaces in India. Some people are born in a shitty house in Detroit with no heating.

You and morons like your self trying to socially engineer "fairness" will not change anything. The world is not inherently fair and accepting a few refuges will not change shit.


It is not Europe's responsibility to drag it's own people down by taking in people who were born in shitty places.

Have you heard about the Muslim rape gangs in Great Britain, Denmark, Sweden, Holland and Norway? Only 30% of these refuges are women. 70% are men. Many were raised to believe that non-Muslim western women are sex dolls. You can tell me that is false all you want, and claim your ignorant PC bullshit, but I am the one who has actually lived in a 3rd world Muslim country and know what it's really like. I have witnessed on several occasions shopkeepers and police groping and grabbing the breasts and asses of 14 year old western girls in the middle of the day, and no one there gives a shit.

Gender population wise, many of these new young male refuges are not going to have a wife or girlfriend simply because there aren't enough women to go around. Many of these refuges will be claiming welfare benefits and puttling little back in to the system. What do you think is going to happen in Europe?

[9erempiree]

and i was only lucky to be born to europeans. i didnt earn any of it, i was just born into it.

im 22. my college was paid for by the government. i didnt grow up around any realy violence or hardship, and because of these factors, which are entirely out of my control, i'm gonna have a relatively easy life.

its by pure luck that i was born in europe, and i have had such an easy life.

its not fair that people unlucky enough to be born in worse off parts of the world have to struggle when we can help.

so if you wanna go be paranoid about ISIS and terrorists, go ahead, theres enough compassionate countries out there willing to help without you.

This post reminds me of what the liberals were saying this past summer and I am paraphrasing here.....

They said parents shouldn't read to their kids because their kids would have an advantage over other kids who were not fortunate enough to have parents read to them.

:wtf:

[Trollsmasher]

and i was only lucky to be born to europeans. i didnt earn any of it, i was just born into it.

im 22. my college was paid for by the government. i didnt grow up around any realy violence or hardship, and because of these factors, which are entirely out of my control, i'm gonna have a relatively easy life.

its by pure luck that i was born in europe, and i have had such an easy life.

its not fair that people unlucky enough to be born in worse off parts of the world have to struggle when we can help.

so if you wanna go be paranoid about ISIS and terrorists, go ahead, theres enough compassionate countries out there willing to help without you.
you weren't lucky

you were an intentional creation by your parents

no luck involved in that

[Nick Young]

This post reminds me of what the liberals were saying this past summer and I am paraphrasing here.....

They said parents shouldn't read to their kids because their kids would have an advantage over other kids who were not fortunate enough to have parents read to them.

:wtf:
post a link. No retard could have possibly suggested that.:facepalm

[NumberSix]

Quick question.....

During world war 2, when masses of Jews needed actual refuge, did Palestine have a moral obligation to let them in? Why did they try to stop them? Was it because of bigotry? It's weird because I always hear Muslims and leftists say there is no reason why Arabs should be punished for what Europe did to the Jews.

[Trollsmasher]

muzzies in this thread unsurprisingly supporting the islamic invasion of europe:lol

so crystal clear

[DeuceWallaces]

Please guys, don't make a habit of talking out of your asses without fact checking, it'll make you look like a real pompous, arrogant douche irl.

They just say whatever dumb shit comes to their mind and then post a link that in fact does not back up what they say, but somehow legitimizes it in their mind.

[Nick Young]

Quick question.....

During world war 2, when masses of Jews needed actual refuge, did Palestine have a moral obligation to let them in? Why did they try to stop them? Was it because of bigotry?
At the time of WW2, Palestine as a country and concept did not exist and a group of people who considered themselves to be Palestinian didn't exist. The concept of a group of people identifying themselves as Palestinian rather than Jordanian or Syrian only came to exist in the 1950s.

The grand mufti of Jerusalem at the time was best buddies with Hitler and was trying to set up death camps in the Middle East and logistic networks to easily ship the Middle Eastern Jews to the death camps in Eastern Europe.:facepalm
http://graceuniversity.edu/iip/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Haj-Amin-al-Husseini-and-Adolf-Hitler.jpeg

[9erempiree]

post a link. No retard could have possibly suggested that.:facepalm

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/417997/professor-if-you-read-your-kids-youre-unfairly-disadvantaging-others-katherine-timpf

You can read the other thing he says too.

[DeuceWallaces]

Quick question.....

During world war 2, when masses of Jews needed actual refuge, did Palestine have a moral obligation to let them in? Why did they try to stop them? Was it because of bigotry? It's weird because I always hear Muslims and leftists say there is no reason why Arabs should be punished for what Europe did to the Jews.

:oldlol: :oldlol:

[Trollsmasher]

by the way, indeed none of those who make it to Europe are refugees


Article 31 of the 1951 Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees provides as follows:

1. The Contracting States shall not impose penalties, on account of their illegal entry or presence, on refugees who, coming directly from a territory where their life or freedom was threatened in the sense of Article 1, enter or are present in their territory without authorization, provided they present themselves without delay to the authorities and show good cause for their illegal entry or presence.

none of them come directly, as they skip several safe countries on their way

therefore they are all subjectible to penalties according to the laws of the countries they enter

therefore they are all guilty of illegal trespassing

therefore they can by criminally prosecuted and sentenced as there is no defense for their crimes

therefore they lose the right to claim the asylum

This is pretty much what Hungary has started doing and the entire EU should employ this

[9erempiree]

by the way, indeed none of those who make it to Europe are refugees



none of them come directly, as they skip several safe countries on their way

therefore they are all subjectible to penalties according to the laws of the countries they enter

therefore they are all guilty of illegal trespassing

therefore they can by criminally prosecuted and sentenced as there is no defense for their crimes

therefore they lose the right to claim the asylum

This is pretty much what Hungary has started doing and the entire EU should employ this

Basically what we have been saying.....refugees have demands now. They are not happy to be alive and escaping death. Now they want to see if country ABC can provide more assistance than country XYZ.

It's like offering the homeless man food but instead he wants the beer.

Let him sleep on your couch and he wants to sleep in the master bedroom with your wife.

Also, look how they are treating the aid workers. Throwing rocks at them, stealing food and water and even destroying food.

[Nick Young]

:oldlol: :oldlol:
Most Muslim countries actively allied with Hitler and happily assisted with his extermination of the Jews in WWII.
http://www.tellthechildrenthetruth.com/gallery/images/2-mufti2_jpg_jpg_jpg.jpg
https://themuslimissue.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/palestine-jihad-facts.jpg

Amin Al-Husseini is still considered a hero across much of the Arab world, especially Palestine where he is considered a national treasure.
Fact.

[Bosnian Sajo]

They just say whatever dumb shit comes to their mind and then post a link that in fact does not back up what they say, but somehow legitimizes it in their mind.

My favorite part is how not one of em would respond to the thread after I exposed their lies till someone changed the subject, completely abandoning their past arguments. I mean the only thing they could say was "damn I'm wrong af", naturally they wanted to save face.

[NumberSix]

My favorite part is how not one of em would respond to the thread after I exposed their lies till someone changed the subject, completely abandoning their past arguments. I mean the only thing they could say was "damn I'm wrong af", naturally they wanted to save face.
What lies? All you said was half the refugees are women? Yeah, nobody doubts that the people in the refugee camps are half women. That's not what we are talking about though. We are talking about the people illegally crossing European borders. We can very clearly see for ourselves in the videos that there are not an equal amount of men and women.

[chips93]

The world isn't fair. Life isn't fair. Some people are born kings, some people are born in a gutter. Some people are born blind with no arms and legs, some people are born with 20/20 vision and world class athleticism. Some people live to be 110 years old. Some people die of lung cancer when they're 5. Some people are born in palaces in India. Some people are born in a shitty house in Detroit with no heating.

thats a shitty excuse not to make the world a fairer place when we have the opportunity.


You and morons like your self trying to socially engineer "fairness" will not change anything. The world is not inherently fair and accepting a few refuges will not change shit.

will it not improve their quality of life? a small change is better than nothing.



It is not Europe's responsibility to drag it's own people down by taking in people who were born in shitty places.

that i sort of agree with. I dont think its europe's responsibility, necessarily, i just think thats it the right thing to do.

[9erempiree]

Why should Europe be responsible when Syria is in Asia? It's kind of harsh that another continent has to help refugees from another continent.

Something to ponder about?

China is probably the best in terms of being out of sight and out of mind when it comes to global affairs. Super Powers are usually ones helping and they are a super power that holds no responsibility to others and Middle East Asia love Asians. They see Asians as a superior version of Arabs. Notice how they don't colonize China?

[NumberSix]

Honestly, Europe should refuse to take a single person. Between Egypt, Turkey, Jordan, etc... They have over 5 million soldiers. They can't take out 30 thousand ISIS soldiers? Maybe they just don't give a shit. Perhaps if the countries surrounding Syria start getting flooded with refugees, they'll start giving a shit.

[DeuceWallaces]

What lies? All you said was half the refugees are women? Yeah, nobody doubts that the people in the refugee camps are half women. That's not what we are talking about though. We are talking about the people illegally crossing European borders. We can very clearly see for ourselves in the videos that there are not an equal amount of men and women.

Uh, no. It's specifically talking about the events of the past month and the Syrian refugees attempting to enter Western Europe by foot and by boat.

You watched a 45 second clip of a CNN reporter walking with refugees and determined that most of the several million are men. :lol

[Bosnian Sajo]

Honestly, Europe should refuse to take a single person. Between Egypt, Turkey, Jordan, etc... They have over 5 million soldiers. They can't take out 30 thousand ISIS soldiers? Maybe they just don't give a shit. Perhaps if the countries surrounding Syria start getting flooded with refugees, they'll start giving a shit.

Start getting flooded? Dude....****ing read god damn it.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/COCZJqlWsAAWT7h.png

[NumberSix]

Start getting flooded? Dude....****ing read god damn it.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/COCZJqlWsAAWT7h.png
Don't take things so literally guy.

[NumberSix]

Uh, no. It's specifically talking about the events of the past month and the Syrian refugees attempting to enter Western Europe by foot and by boat.

You watched a 45 second clip of a CNN reporter walking with refugees and determined that most of the several million are men. :lol
I'm not talking about the several million. I'm talking only about the ones crossing into Europe.

[9erempiree]

I'm not talking about the several million. I'm talking only about the ones crossing into Europe.

This is what they don't get.

We are speaking of over ten thousand refugees marching to Europe and these sympathizers think we are referring to them as a whole.

Just like all the damn Muslims on here getting mad because we trash ISIS.

[9erempiree]

Start getting flooded? Dude....****ing read god damn it.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/COCZJqlWsAAWT7h.png

Calm down Muslim.

We are not talking about Syrian refugees as a whole. We're talking about these idiots marching right now.

I can see why you get all mad if I refer to a certain Muslim group and you immediately think I am talking about all Muslims.

Yes, 70% of them are men, the ones that are going to Europe. Those stats your brought up accounts for the entire population that seek refuge while we are discussing the ones going to Europe.

[NumberSix]

This is what they don't get.

We are speaking of over ten thousand refugees marching to Europe and these sympathizers think we are referring to them as a whole.

Just like all the damn Muslims on here getting mad because we trash ISIS.
I don't think I've ever seen anyone on ISH do that.

[Bosnian Sajo]

Don't take things so literally guy.

So what did you mean by "maybe if they started getting flooded with refugees they would start to care"? I read that and understood it in its literal context, what other hidden meaning is in that sentence that I cannot see? Sarcasm? Remember, sarcasm is very hard to translate when not in person.

[NumberSix]

So what did you mean by "maybe if they started getting flooded with refugees they would start to care"? I read that and understood it in its literal context, what other hidden meaning is in that sentence that I cannot see? Sarcasm? Remember, sarcasm is very hard to translate when not in person.
You have a point. I suppose I shouldn't just expect people to understand non-literal context. My bad.

My basic point is, if the west basically just said "this is your problem" and said they're not taking any, these countries might actually finally do something about it.

[ALBballer]

IMO most of these refugees appear more to be economic migrants than war refugees. It's one thing to want to escape war and to find refuge until violence is over but you have refugees demanding to go to Germany. Why not stay in Turkey or stay in Greece, Hungary, etc? Are these places not "safe" or do these migrants prefer to go to a rich socialist country where there is an economic incentive.

[BigNBAfan]

Why are we not calling every muslim a refugee? We're saving them from their own people and religion. Shariahs law.... what a joke

[9erempiree]

IMO most of these refugees appear more to be economic migrants than war refugees. It's one thing to want to escape war and to find refuge until violence is over but you have refugees demanding to go to Germany. Why not stay in Turkey or stay in Greece, Hungary, etc? Are these places not "safe" or do these migrants prefer to go to a rich socialist country where there is an economic incentive.

That's what we are saying before all these sympathizers start accusing us of shit. The stats already show millions of refugees residing in neighboring countries. We're basically referring to these 18,000 or so 'refugees' trying to get to Germany and Sweden. In which 70% of them are men with no families.

They are trying to bag themselves a white girl and leeching off the system.

They are comparable to the American welfare hood rats.

[bluechox2]

how many of those refugees are isis in disguise? is there anyway to verify...

[9erempiree]

how many of those refugees are isis in disguise? is there anyway to verify...

That's the problem.

They are not affiliated with ISIS...just your so-called normal Muslims and acting violently towards aid workers.

[NumberSix]

IMO most of these refugees appear more to be economic migrants than war refugees. It's one thing to want to escape war and to find refuge until violence is over but you have refugees demanding to go to Germany. Why not stay in Turkey or stay in Greece, Hungary, etc? Are these places not "safe" or do these migrants prefer to go to a rich socialist country where there is an economic incentive.
I think this is something that people aren't understanding. That's not what a refugee is. Refugees are people who need to flee from persecution. Not people who simply live in a country where a war is going on.

During World War II, a lot of Jews were refugees, but you wouldn't grant refugee status to every person who lived in Germany. Living in a war zone by itself doesn't make you a refugee. Refugees are people who are specifically being targeted, not just everybody who is there.

[Bosnian Sajo]

That's what we are saying before all these sympathizers start accusing us of shit. The stats already show millions of refugees residing in neighboring countries. We're basically referring to these 18,000 or so 'refugees' trying to get to Germany and Sweden. In which 70% of them are men with no families.

They are trying to bag themselves a white girl and leeching off the system.

They are comparable to the American welfare hood rats.


9er are you really worried about 18k people? Didn't someone in this thread earlier say that it costs 20k/year to support these refugees? If that were the case, considering the US alone donated +$500m....that is enough money to support 25k people. Considering you are referring to those 18k people or so, there will be money left over from donations after helping these people out, from the US donation alone, not counting UAE's donation of $4.7 BILLION. So it's not like Europe is doing this shit for free, they are being supported to help out.

[ALBballer]

I think this is something that people aren't understanding. That's not what a refugee is. Refugees are people who need to flee from persecution. Not people who simply live in a country where a war is going on.

During World War II, a lot of Jews were refugees, but you wouldn't grant refugee status to every person who lived in Germany. Living in a war zone by itself doesn't make you a refugee. Refugees are people who are specifically being targeted, not just everybody who is there.

You are arguing over semantics whether they are "refugees" or "insert other term"...that was not the point of my argument.

[KyrieTheFuture]

how many of those refugees are isis in disguise? is there anyway to verify...
This is why no one should take you seriously

[Bosnian Sajo]

This is why no one should take you seriously

He's trollin looking for reactions, on a couple of threads today.

[DeuceWallaces]

I'm not talking about the several million. I'm talking only about the ones crossing into Europe.

Those are the same ones.

[BigNBAfan]

This is why no one should take you seriously

Answer the question ****wad

[KyrieTheFuture]

Answer the question ****wad
Okay, no, there is no way to verify if they are an ISIS agent unless they are the Arab Sterling Archer and announce their ISIS affiliation as a flirting mechanism.

[BigNBAfan]

So maybe we should consider the 370M that they're endangering by trying to save a few thousand.

[Nick Young]

9er are you really worried about 18k people? Didn't someone in this thread earlier say that it costs 20k/year to support these refugees? If that were the case, considering the US alone donated +$500m....that is enough money to support 25k people. Considering you are referring to those 18k people or so, there will be money left over from donations after helping these people out, from the US donation alone, not counting UAE's donation of $4.7 BILLION. So it's not like Europe is doing this shit for free, they are being supported to help out.
Why is it the US government's job to support a bunch of random ass people who were born thousands of miles away? When did USA become the world's daddy and when did it get to the point where Syrians have to be infantilized by people like yourself?

[Nick Young]

thats a shitty excuse not to make the world a fairer place when we have the opportunity.



will it not improve their quality of life? a small change is better than nothing.




that i sort of agree with. I dont think its europe's responsibility, necessarily, i just think thats it the right thing to do.
You are retarded. Your Disneyfied naive sense of what's fair and what's right and wrong will not change shit. You cannot socially engineer fairness and equality. Life inherently isn't fair.

The right thing to do according to who? Jesus? Buddha? Mohammad? L. Ron Hubbard? Your mom?

[9erempiree]

You are retarded. Your Disneyfied naive sense of what's fair and what's right and wrong will not change shit. You cannot socially engineer fairness and equality. Life inherently isn't fair.

The right thing to do according to who? Jesus? Buddha? Mohammad? L. Ron Hubbard? Your mom?

Very well thought out post and I agree because you cannot manufacture or design fairness in a dynamic world where social climates are constantly changing.

[Nick Young]

Very well thought out post and I agree because you cannot manufacture or design fairness in a dynamic world where social climates are constantly changing.
Nature itself is inherantly unfair. We as human beings are animals and follow the same rules of nature as everything else. Nothing will ever come close to being fair.

Some people will be born with HIV or inoperable brain tumors. Some people are born super geniuses with 199 IQs. Some people are born uglier than Shrek. Some people are born Jessica Albas. Fairness and equality goes against nature and reality.

No, we will never achieve "fairness". Trying to do so is a losing battle.

[DeuceWallaces]

You are retarded. Your Disneyfied naive sense of what's fair and what's right and wrong will not change shit. You cannot socially engineer fairness and equality. Life inherently isn't fair.

The right thing to do according to who? Jesus? Buddha? Mohammad? L. Ron Hubbard? Your mom?

It doesn't have to be. "Life" could very well be much more fair, and we have an incredible amount of power to make it so. There is nothing inherently natural or biological about extreme social stratification and wealth disparity.

[NumberSix]

It doesn't have to be. "Life" could very well be much more fair, and we have an incredible amount of power to make it so. There is nothing inherently natural or biological about extreme social stratification and wealth disparity.
There are definitely ways to make a society more fair. But we can't ignore the reality that different cultures are not equally interested in doing so.

[DeuceWallaces]

There are definitely ways to make a society more fair. But we can't ignore the reality that different cultures are not equally interested in doing so.

That's irrelevant.

[Nick Young]

It doesn't have to be. "Life" could very well be much more fair, and we have an incredible amount of power to make it so. There is nothing inherently natural or biological about extreme social stratification and wealth disparity.
You are a massive fool if you actually believe that.

Wealth disparity is 100% natural and biological. We are part of nature. The very concept of wealth was created by us. In every single human society in recorded history, there has always been wealth disparity in some form or another.

You are foolish if you believe our society is any different from past human societies in this regard.

[DeuceWallaces]

You are a massive fool if you actually believe that.

Wealth disparity is 100% natural and biological. We are part of nature. The very concept of wealth was created by us. In every single human society in recorded history, there has always been wealth disparity in some form or another.

You are foolish if you believe our society is any different from past human societies in this regard.

It's a social construct that could be rectified; or at the very least mitigated.

[NumberSix]

That's irrelevant.
No, it not irrelevant. In a "multicultural" country, everybody gets to vote but not everybody wants the same things.

You're a lefty, so I'll assume you're not a fan of the Christian Right in America. I'm sure that in your opinion, they have political interests that you wouldn't view as being in the interest of "fairness." Do you think their cultural values have no impact on policies of "fairness" being implemented?

My guess (I could be wrong) is that you actually do believe that their cultural values hinder "fairness", or at least your idea of it.

[Nick Young]

It's a social construct that could be rectified; or at the very least mitigated.
It never has before. Why are you so naive to believe our current generation is any different from every other society in the past that has tried to eliminate wealth disparity?


Yes you're right, it is a social construct. We are primates. Just like other primates, we humans naturally develop various social constructs in our societies and groups to weed out the weak links and to ensure our species survives.

Is it fair? No. But nature isn't fair.

[DeuceWallaces]

Are you being serious right now? Religion and conservatism are not a cultures.

And the fact remains that the ability of society to be more fair and its "multiculturalism" (which you don't seem to understand the meaning of that word) are both mutually exclusive and irrelevant.

[NumberSix]

Are you being serious right now? Religion and conservatism are not a cultures.

And the fact remains that the ability of society to be more fair and its "multiculturalism" (which you don't seem to understand the meaning of that word) are both mutually exclusive and irrelevant.
As always, you add nothing to any conversation.

[DeuceWallaces]

It never has before. Why are you so naive to believe our current generation is any different from every other society in the past that has tried to eliminate wealth disparity?


Yes you're right, it is a social construct. We are primates. Just like other primates, we humans naturally develop various social constructs in our societies and groups to weed out the weak links and to ensure our species survives.

Is it fair? No. But nature isn't fair.

Our current system has nothing to do with weak links and survival; definitely not in any Darwinian meaning. There is little to no social mobility no matter your genes, aptitude, or survival skill. It's almost entirely a function of inherited wealth and social status.

I understand that influential people have no reason to want change and therefore none will come. But that does not mean it's right, necessary, or natural.

[NumberSix]

Our current system has nothing to do with weak links and survival; definitely not in any Darwinian meaning. There is little to no social mobility no matter your genes, aptitude, or survival skill. It's almost entirely a function of inherited wealth and social status.

I understand that influential people have no reason to want change and therefore none will come. But that does not mean it's right, necessary, or natural.
You're actually right about this.

[DeuceWallaces]

As always, you add nothing to any conversation.

You don't even understand the basic meanings of words. How can I possibly have a conversation with you? Do you see how NY and myself just engaged in a back and forth on the issue of social inequality and its potential inherent biological drivers?

I don't agree with NY, I think he's about 1/3 troll, but holy shit he has an understanding of the issues, weather or not I agree with him and is fully capable of engaging in conversation without being derailed by the definition of a word or weather or not a country exists. You're just a ****ing idiot. You just post blatant lies, you rarely have a clue about what you're talking about, and lack the fundamental knowledge to debate on any issue. Your thoughts on Palestine during WWII were ****ing comedy gold. Put the keyboard down, go read a book or 100, and then get back to me.

[ArbitraryWater]

This post reminds me of what the liberals were saying this past summer and I am paraphrasing here.....

They said parents shouldn't read to their kids because their kids would have an advantage over other kids who were not fortunate enough to have parents read to them.

:wtf:

thats not the same, at all though..

people are born into different circumstances, nick young, if you want to stay fortunate, I'd believe in actually helping people out who weren't as lucky.. but I guess thats just me, being a human and all with some compassion.

[Nick Young]

Our current system has nothing to do with weak links and survival; definitely not in any Darwinian meaning. There is little to no social mobility no matter your genes, aptitude, or survival skill. It's almost entirely a function of inherited wealth and social status.

I understand that influential people have no reason to want change and therefore none will come. But that does not mean it's right, necessary, or natural.
We are primates. You are naive if you cannot see how our current system has absolutely everything to do with survival in the Darwinian meaning. We are primates just like gorillas and chimpanzees. Hopefully you will begin to understand things and start seeing the bigger picture.

[ArbitraryWater]

You are retarded. Your Disneyfied naive sense of what's fair and what's right and wrong will not change shit. You cannot socially engineer fairness and equality. Life inherently isn't fair.

The right thing to do according to who? Jesus? Buddha? Mohammad? L. Ron Hubbard? Your mom?


Nature itself is inherantly unfair. We as human beings are animals and follow the same rules of nature as everything else. Nothing will ever come close to being fair.

Some people will be born with HIV or inoperable brain tumors. Some people are born super geniuses with 199 IQs. Some people are born uglier than Shrek. Some people are born Jessica Albas. Fairness and equality goes against nature and reality.

No, we will never achieve "fairness". Trying to do so is a losing battle.

what the eff are you talking about :roll:

"this place isnt fair, even if we could help, we wont, we wouldnt, its all just useless... we're animals hmmmm"

[Nick Young]

thats not the same, at all though..

people are born into different circumstances, nick young, if you want to stay fortunate, I'd believe in actually helping people out who weren't as lucky.. but I guess thats just me, being a human and all with some compassion.
"Lucky"

Christ.

Do you believe in mystical cosmic forces of karma? What goes around comes around? Too bad nature doesn't.

[Nick Young]

what the eff are you talking about

Real life.

I have seen far more of the world than you have. You don't know shit what these countries are really like.

[Nick Young]

Are you being serious right now? Religion and conservatism are not a cultures.


Yes they are. That's exactly what they are. Educate yourself.


culture
the sum total of ways of living built up by a group of human beings and transmitted from one generation to another.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/culture?s=t

[ArbitraryWater]

huh? You can dictate your fate in terms of what you are born into? Is that what you're suggesting? I'm not...


"Lucky"

Christ.

Do you believe in mystical cosmic forces of karma? What goes around comes around? Too bad nature doesn't.


Real life.

I have seen far more of the world than you have. You don't know shit what these countries are really like.

I live with these people... some of my family come from "these countries"...

continue with "its a losing battle trying to help people, hurr its a sad inherently unfair world, durr"

[NumberSix]

You don't even understand the basic meanings of words. How can I possibly have a conversation with you? Do you see how NY and myself just engaged in a back and forth on the issue of social inequality and its potential inherent biological drivers?

I don't agree with NY, I think he's about 1/3 troll, but holy shit he has an understanding of the issues, weather or not I agree with him and is fully capable of engaging in conversation without being derailed by the definition of a word or weather or not a country exists. You're just a ****ing idiot. You just post blatant lies, you rarely have a clue about what you're talking about, and lack the fundamental knowledge to debate on any issue. Your thoughts on Palestine during WWII were ****ing comedy gold. Put the keyboard down, go read a book or 100, and then get back to me.
You're the only person doing that. You decided to pick a word (that I didn't give any definition of) from my post and randomly concluded that I don't know what it means. I didn't even take your bait on it. I didn't ague word definitions, I just let it go. You then say you can't discuss things with me because I "don't know the basic meaning of words", which you randomly decided.

[Nick Young]

There is little to no social mobility no matter your genes, aptitude, or survival skill.
Also, this is a real loser attitude.

Richard Branson, Alan Sugar and Mark Zuckerburg did not begin life as billionaires. They were not born in to billions.

Bill Gates was not born the richest man on earth.

John Frusciante was not born being an amazing guitar player.

Your blind belief in "luck" completely discounts individuals hard work and innovation.

Society does not have to follow the university education path and become lackey underlings working for bosses. That is just the path you chose to take and most of society chooses to take, because it is safe and easy and it's what you were told your whole life you had to do to be successful.

Richard Branson did not become a billionaire by being "born in to it" and being "lucky". He made his own opportunities and took advantage of them. Our society more than any other society in history allows people to move up and down the social and wealth ladder.

Not everyone is a special snow flake. Not everyone gets to be a millionaire of come up with the next great idea that will change society. Humans are not inherently equal. It isn't fair but that's how life is. It is nature.

[ArbitraryWater]

All of those were uniquely talented.. nothing is possible without it.

You're nothing special and never will be, you could train as hard as successful people, but at the end of the day you will just be average at what they do.

[Nick Young]

huh? You can dictate your fate in terms of what you are born into? Is that what you're suggesting? I'm not...





I live with these people... some of my family come from "these countries"...

continue with "its a losing battle trying to help people, hurr its a sad inherently unfair world, durr"
In the bigger picture, it is. The world isn't a Disney movie, brah.

[Nick Young]

All of those were uniquely talented.. nothing is possible without it.

You're nothing special and never will be, you could train as hard as successful people, but at the end of the day you will just be average at what they do.
"Uniquely talented"

Not so much. Very driven and hardworking? Yes. Alen Sugar for example simply saw a gap in the market and exploited it. He was not more "uniquely talented" than any one else.

The fact that you believe this is the reason you, and people with similar defeatist mindset to yourself (most of the world) will never rise up past their wealth and social class. That doesn't mean it's "impossible".

Yes, you are right. Whatever I do, there will always be some one out there who is more talented and better than me at it. That is how the world works. It isn't fair. That's life. It's time you learned to accept life and deal with it:cheers:

[ArbitraryWater]

In the bigger picture, it is. The world isn't a Disney movie, brah.

thanks?

I guess some strive to making this whole thing a better place (stop drifting apart), and some take the easy road out.


"Uniquely talented"

Not so much. Very driven and hardworking? Yes. Alen Sugar for example simply saw a gap in the market and exploiting it.

Yes, you are right. Whatever I do, there will always be some one out there who is more talented and better than me at it. That is how the world works. It isn't fair. That's life. It's time you learned to accept life and deal with it:cheers:

I literally just explained that aspect to you... and how is what made Alan Sugar great, now now a talent?

I'm not someone begging for something weird like equal amount of white/black/asian runners in the olympics or whatever, Blacks will have the upper hand...

I'm saying that if you do the most out of your resources, you get your turn, and when you do, you better give back. Bill Gates is someone doing that, for example.

[Nick Young]

thanks?

I guess some strive to making this whole thing a better place (stop drifting apart), and some take the easy road out.



I literally just explained that aspect to you... and how is what made Alan Sugar great, now now a talent?

I'm not someone begging for something weird like equal amount of white/black/asian runners in the olympics or whatever, Blacks will have the upper hand...

I'm saying that if you do the most out of your resources, you get your turn, and when you do, you better give back. Bill Gates is someone doing that, for example.
:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

You do realize he's only doing that for tax breaks, correct? You do realize that every rich person in America is taxed about 50% of their yearly income and the top 1% contribute more in taxes than the bottom 99% do combined, correct? All rich people already DO give back more than others. That's how the system is set up and has been set up FOR HUNDREDS OF YEARS SINCE THE USA WAS FOUNDED.:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[Nick Young]

I literally just explained that aspect to you... and how is what made Alan Sugar great, now now a talent?
Do you have any idea how Alan Sugar gained his wealth while starting up?:confusedshrug:

[ArbitraryWater]

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

You do realize he's only doing that for tax breaks, correct? You do realize that every rich person in America is taxed about 50% of their yearly income and the top 1% contribute more in taxes than the bottom 99% do combined, correct? All rich people already DO give back more than others. That's how the system is set up and has been set up FOR HUNDREDS OF YEARS SINCE THE USA WAS FOUNDED.:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

shocking news at 11: Gates is doing a bit more than necessary

[Nick Young]

shocking news at 11: Gates is doing a bit more than necessary
God bless his soul:roll: :roll: :roll:

Bill Gates is really your shining example of treating people fairly and giving back? Are you aware how Bill Gates gained his wealth?:confusedshrug:

God bless his saintly soul.

[DeuceWallaces]

Richard Branson

[QUOTE]Branson was born in Blackheath, London, the eldest of three children born to barrister Edward James Branson (1918

[Gr]

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

You do realize he's only doing that for tax breaks, correct? You do realize that every rich person in America is taxed about 50% of their yearly income and the top 1% contribute more in taxes than the bottom 99% do combined, correct? All rich people already DO give back more than others. That's how the system is set up and has been set up FOR HUNDREDS OF YEARS SINCE THE USA WAS FOUNDED.:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

Giving back a small part of what they've taken through government enforced entitlements like intellectual property, natural resource and landownership, and various other anti free market privileges, hardly puts them in a net plus with the rest of society. They are rent seekers, not the masters of wealth creation of your delusional imagination.

[DeuceWallaces]

You're the only person doing that. You decided to pick a word (that I didn't give any definition of) from my post and randomly concluded that I don't know what it means. I didn't even take your bait on it. I didn't ague word definitions, I just let it go. You then say you can't discuss things with me because I "don't know the basic meaning of words", which you randomly decided.

You repeatedly, and comically, try to come up with hilarious faux-provocative questions that fail to understand the very meaning of the words you use to construct them. Then your basic understanding of the English language goes on a collision course with your inept comprehension of the issues you wish to debate resulting in your cringe-worthy posting history.

Go buy a dictionary and at least read Wikipedia before you subject myself and the rest of the internet to your shit-brained perception of the world.

[Nick Young]

Richard Branson



Mark Zuckerburg



Bill Gates



John Frusciante



Bad examples. These all prove my point; not yours. Only Sugar come from middle to lower class. It's luck. Social mobility is dead, and it only somewhat existed for just a few decades.

Not really. it just proves it's hard to rise up. This makes sense considering the population is higher than ever before. That doesn't mean it is impossible to change your social status. You have a genuine loser attitude if you believe that.

John Frusciante practiced in his room for 10 hours every day growing up. No one forced him to practice so hard to become a guitar master. Many pro Brazilian footballers ditch school to play football all day. They certainly rise up from poverty to wealth.

No, not everyone can make it. That's not how the world works. Hard work doesn't always pay off but if you never even take a chance, you will fail by default.

Social mobility is not "dead". It is just difficult to achieve. Your attitude is similar to a fat persons. You can't lose weight because it's difficult and requires discipline, therefore you will do the easy thing and just keep eating too much and not exercising.

If you credit everything you've achieved in your life to "luck", you are a true loser.

Branson and Zuckerburg and Bill Gates parents weren't billionaires. These three people certainly moved up in social class.

[DeuceWallaces]

Not really. it just proves it's hard to rise up. This makes sense considering the population is higher than ever before. That doesn't mean it is impossible to change your social status. You have a genuine loser attitude if you believe that.

John Frusciante practiced in his room for 10 hours every day growing up. Many pro Brazilian footballers ditch school to play football all day. They certainly rise up from poverty to wealth.

Social mobility is not "dead". It is just difficult to achieve. Your attitude is similar to a fat persons. You can't lose weight because it's difficult and requires discipline, therefore you will do the easy thing and just keep eating too much and not exercising.

If you credit everything you've achieved in your life to "luck", you are a true loser.

Most studies show that it's dead.

Your analogy with fat people is misplaced. A fat person can lose weight without any luck. Only determination is needed. Upward economic and social mobility requires either luck or hard-work and luck. Hard work will often get you nowhere.

[Nick Young]

Go buy a dictionary and at least read Wikipedia before you subject myself and the rest of the internet to your shit-brained perception of the world.
Quoth the man who did not know the definition of the word "culture"

[Nick Young]

Most studies show that it's dead.

Your analogy with fat people is misplaced. A fat person can lose weight without any luck. Only determination is needed. Upward economic and social mobility requires either luck or hard-work and luck. Hard work will often get you nowhere.
Stupid hard work with no plan or ambition behind it will often get you nowhere. Hard work in the right areas will always get you somewhere.

What are these "most studies" you talk about? Please post some studies that say it's impossible to rise out of your social class. I am very interested in reading these studies.

The fact that you think upward economic and social mobility is reliant on luck, and so many people share your defeatist mindset, is the exact reason your economic social mobility will never improve.

[DeuceWallaces]

Branson and Zuckerburg and Bill Gates parents weren't billionaires. These three people certainly moved up in social class.

They were very upper class. The sons of prominent lawyers. If you can't see what an incredible advantage that is then you're a dipshit. Both are starting businesses at a very young age, with their parents' capital, and little to no risk in the event of a failure.

[DeuceWallaces]

Quoth the man who did not know the definition of the word "culture"

Multicultural.

[DeuceWallaces]

Stupid hard work with no plan or ambition behind it will often get you nowhere. Hard work in the right areas will always get you somewhere.

What are these "most studies" you talk about? Please post some studies that say it's impossible to rise out of your social class. I am very interested in reading these studies.

The fact that you think upward economic and social mobility is reliant on luck, and so many people share your defeatist mindset, is the exact reason your economic social mobility will never improve.

There are hundreds of scientific studies on social and economic mobility in the US. There are whole textbooks reviewing them. Just because you've never bothered to research a subject before you go on and on about it doesn't mean they don't exist.

[Nick Young]

There are hundreds of scientific studies on social and economic mobility in the US. There are whole textbooks reviewing them. Just because you've never bothered to research a subject before you go on and on about it doesn't mean they don't exist.
Please post two of these "hundreds of scientific studies" please. I am ignorant on the subject and wish to learn. Google search is not showing anything for me. I am eager to learn from your expertise on the subject.

The fact that you admit Alan Sugar rose up from a lower class background completely defeats your idiotic statement that it's "impossible" to improve your economic social class.

If you fail to post any of these studies that prove moving up in social class is "impossible" it is safe to assume that these studies don't actually exist.

[Nick Young]

Multicultural.
You said that religion and conservatism did not fit the definition of the word culture.

[DeuceWallaces]

Please post two of these "hundreds of scientific studies" please. I am ignorant on the subject and wish to learn. Google search is not showing anything for me. I am eager to learn from your expertise on the subject.

The fact that you admit Alan Sugar rose up from a lower class background completely defeats your idiotic statement that it's "impossible" to improve your economic social class.

Use google scholar, or one of the scientific journal search indexes through your university library such as Web Of Science, SCOPUS, JSTOR, GeoRef, etc. You might learn something.

I never said it's impossible to improve your social or economic standing. It's just incredibly difficult. My position is not subjective to inductive reasoning whereas one example of upward mobility proves that it's easy or commonplace.

[DeuceWallaces]

You said that religion and conservatism did not fit the definition of the word culture.

I was responding to his silly multicultural point. I'm not even sure what he was trying to say. Not all cultures are ethnic or racial i.e. counter-culture, but one would rarely refer to modern Christianity as a culture or contributing to a "multicultural" country.

[Gr]

Stupid hard work with no plan or ambition behind it will often get you nowhere. Hard work in the right areas will always get you somewhere.

What are these "most studies" you talk about? Please post some studies that say it's impossible to rise out of your social class. I am very interested in reading these studies.

The fact that you think upward economic and social mobility is reliant on luck, and so many people share your defeatist mindset, is the exact reason your economic social mobility will never improve.

Actually, for most people it's guaranteed that they will experience no social mobility.

For one simple reason: LAND. More specifically, the privatization of the publicly created value of locations.

The value of land is directly tied to the economic performance of a community.

The people who own the good land have a free ride at the expense of others.

"Work hard and acquire land" you say? That will make land even more expensive. You have to outpace the economy.

For the vast majority of people it's a mathematical certainty that they will never be able to, no matter how hard or how productive they work. They will never, ever acquire enough land to offset what is and has been taken from them. Not even if they manage to slave off a mortgage debt.

And the tax burdens they bear make it even harder, as public investment in infrastructure and services also goes into land rent. This has been proven by Joseph Stieglitz with the Henry George Theorem.

The landowner is essentially an entitled government welfare baby living off everyone else's productive work.

The utterly corrupt system of landowning is the main reason for wealth inequality.

Land absorbs about 20% of the economy, without the land ever actually having been contributed to the economy. The land would exist anyways. MONEY FOR NO PRODUCTIVE INPUT INTO THE ECONOMY, GET IT?

[Bosnian Sajo]

This thread has gone waaaay off topic :oldlol:

[poido123]

Are you back on the wagon? I thought you changed for the better :oldlol:

We have you saying they are ISIS and we have others who are convinced they just want to work on their tans and sip their fine beverages while collecting handouts.

How about they want the best chance for making a living in a developed country? Why always assume the worst? Believe me, I hate ISIS and hate the ones who don't do shit for their welfare, but I don't always assume the worst in people simply because of their religion.

Lighten up and look at it from their point of view.


My stance has not changed. Fundamentalist Muslims and progressive muslims are two entirely different creatures. I believe the refugees to be the fundamentalist lot, the ones who follow Sharia law in a nutshell.


I'm not drinking the "they are all innocent refugees" coolaid.


ISIS have claimed openly that they will infiltrate and conquer Europe/US and they also claimed that they are hidden among these refugees.

ISIS are very open about their conquests. It's not something I make up, it not only is claimed by ISIS but it makes perfect sense from a tactical standpoint to piggy back the chaos of the refugee crisis and pass through ISIS militants.


I ask you and and anyone else who feels strongly about showing compassion towards these people. I expect you and others to shelter, clothe and feed a family of refugees in your own home. Why is it a government problem? If you expect people like me who pay taxes to foot the bill, then I'm sorry I'm not prepared to do that.

Why are't these people being resettled into a smoother transitional environment? Why must they chase the gravy train of these European countries who don't share the same ideals or cultural beliefs of these people?


I'd say a majority of these people are fundamentalist muslims. Not progressive. Not tolerant.

These are not easily assimilated people. Many are war torn, uneducated and don't speak the native language. How the hell do you assimilate people who are nowhere near the country's expectation?

You can't just pick and choose where you want to live and this isn't a fair world. You have to do it the right way, go through the correct procedures and be patient. The way these illegal immigrants are going about it is illegal and opportunistic.

They claim to be "refugees" but don't go through the due process and none of these men are protecting their country like they should be. Why aren't they fighting against ISIS?



Only 20% of these "refugees" are fleeing war torn syria. The majority are risking their lives for a better life as you claim wouldn't be the case:


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3240010/Number-refugees-arriving-Europe-soars-85-year-just-one-five-war-torn-Syria.html


So you see, the lies are from those who believe this to be all Americas fault. The displacement of people from war torn syria is only true among 20% of these people...

[Gr]

This thread has gone waaaay off topic :oldlol:

Yes, but I can't stand it when people claim that large amounts of wealth have necessarily been earned through productive contributions to the economy. It's the exact opposite in most cases when we talk about people in the multiple millions or billions. Some crackhead who mops floors for a living does more of a productive contribution to the economy then somebody who managed to hold on to the right land so that society was forced to shovel millions into his pockets for doing nothing in exchange for the publicly created advantages that the location gives convenient access to.

When you build a bicycle, you are the one who creates the qualities that makes it desirable for people to acquire and thus earns you money. You have contributed to society. Those incentives make society more prosperous. When someone gets wealthy through owning land, IOW owning a point of access to publicly provided advantages, he's obviously getting wealthy through the desirability that society has added to a location, not him. Maybe he has contributed a building, but as a landowner he hasn't contributed anything at all. That's a fact that nobody can refute.

[Trollsmasher]

shocking news at 11: Gates is doing a bit more than necessary
lol, gates is almost singehandedly causing the demograpic catastrophe in Africa

the man is one of the biggest fools on the planet, messiah complex hit him hard

anyway, this thread is full of lazy ****ing losers

[KyrieTheFuture]

lol, gates is almost singehandedly causing the demograpic catastrophe in Africa

the man is one of the biggest fools on the planet, messiah complex hit him hard

anyway, this thread is full of lazy ****ing losers
Explain

[poido123]

lol, gates is almost singehandedly causing the demograpic catastrophe in Africa

the man is one of the biggest fools on the planet, messiah complex hit him hard

anyway, this thread is full of lazy ****ing losers




Explain.

[Nick Young]

Use google scholar, or one of the scientific journal search indexes through your university library such as Web Of Science, SCOPUS, JSTOR, GeoRef, etc. You might learn something.

I never said it's impossible to improve your social or economic standing. It's just incredibly difficult. My position is not subjective to inductive reasoning whereas one example of upward mobility proves that it's easy or commonplace.
Why can't you post a study bro? Do they even exist? Where are the studies that prove economic social class changes are now impossible? Where they at brah?:confusedshrug: You sure got a lot of excuses for not posting any brah.:confusedshrug:


Yes, to achieve great things, it is incredibly difficult. If it was easy, everyone would be a self made billionaire. Not everyone is a special snowflake. Not everyone gets to become a billionaire. That doesn't mean it's "impossible" as you repeatedly claim.

[Gr]

Why can't you post a study bro? Do they even exist? Where are the studies that prove economic social class changes are now impossible? Where they at brah?:confusedshrug: You sure got a lot of excuses for not posting any brah.:confusedshrug:


Yes, to achieve great things, it is incredibly difficult. If it was easy, everyone would be a self made billionaire. Not everyone is a special snowflake. Not everyone gets to become a billionaire. That doesn't mean it's "impossible" as you repeatedly claim.

There is no such thing as a "self made" billionaire.

[LJJ]

I ask you and and anyone else who feels strongly about showing compassion towards these people. I expect you and others to shelter, clothe and feed a family of refugees in your own home. Why is it a government problem? If you expect people like me who pay taxes to foot the bill, then I'm sorry I'm not prepared to do that.

Why are't these people being resettled into a smoother transitional environment? Why must they chase the gravy train of these European countries who don't share the same ideals or cultural beliefs of these people?

Here's the thing though, these people aren't walking to Saudi Arabia, they aren't walking to the Emirates, they aren't walking to Eastern Europe or to Russia. Not only because they know they would be treated like dogs there while they can get free housing and a lifetime of free income in the West, but also because those governments have said "No, **** off. We are compassionate and help you out in another way, but we are not going to make you citizens just like that.".

It's the German government, the Swedish government etcetera who shout to the refugees "Come here, every refugee is welcome here and will be eligible for full citizenship.", while backhandedly telling all the other countries in the EU they have to take an equal share of the refugees they've invited. They are the ones responsible for this, these governments. You can go talk about how it's international law that a refugee needs to apply for status in the first safe country, that all goes out the window when governments themselves are saying that they don't care about that and will take everybody who comes.

And in the end everybody loses. It's a problem for the countries taking in these refugees, because the majority of them don't even have the skill-set to gain employment and will be chronically unemployed. A large portion of them don't and will never respect western culture and will never integrate into society. They will cause crime and trouble. And they are almost all young, unattached males causing further trouble. (for example these "Asian" (Pakistani) rape rings you keep hearing about in England, well a large part of the reason this is a prevalent problem is that there are simply no single women out there for them to engage with. They culturally aren't even allowed to, and Pakistanis only send the young guys over, almost never the young women. Just like the Syrians do now)
Even for Syria in itself, it's a massive humanitarian disaster that will follow the wake of the war. Once the war is finished, for every 100k refugees taken in by Europe there will be many more people suffering the consequences in Syria. All the rich families have become citizens in another country. So many of the young healthy men who could be rebuilding the country are gone hanging out all day on European streetcorners blowing their welfare checks on weed. While all the women and all the weak, old and poor people are stuck trying to get the nation back on its feet. It will be a disaster for those left behind, which is the giant majority.

It's all the result of idiot politicians shouting at desperate people that they will take anyone who comes. Instead of what they should do, which is making sure these people have adequate food and adequate facilities in Turkey and Lebanon (which they don't have, which is another reason they come) while doing their best to ensure the violence stops as soon as possible. Can't score brownie points with the electorate doing that though...

[Nick Young]

[QUOTE=Gr

[Gr]

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

It's the truth. In a free market competition pushes prices down towards the margin of production.

Most billionaires are land (also natural resource) and intellectual property owners.

Land value is obviously publicly created. That eliminates all those billionaires as having been "self made". The land market is a monopoly market as there is no competition between sellers as land is not produced (they are all pure price takers, with the price resulting from competition between buyers).

Intellectual property owners certainly wouldn't become billionaires without the government violating everyone's rights on their behalf.

Also, name one intellectual property billionaire who hasn't used ideas from other people on his way to becoming a billionaire.

[Nick Young]

[QUOTE=Gr

[ALBballer]

Here's the thing though, these people aren't walking to Saudi Arabia, they aren't walking to the Emirates, they aren't walking to Eastern Europe or to Russia. Not only because they know they would be treated like dogs there while they can get free housing and a lifetime of free income in the West, but also because those governments have said "No, **** off. We are compassionate and help you out in another way, but we are not going to make you citizens just like that.".

It's the German government, the Swedish government etcetera who shout to the refugees "Come here, every refugee is welcome here and will be eligible for full citizenship.", while backhandedly telling all the other countries in the EU they have to take an equal share of the refugees they've invited. They are the ones responsible for this, these governments. You can go talk about how it's international law that a refugee needs to apply for status in the first safe country, that all goes out the window when governments themselves are saying that they don't care about that and will take everybody who comes.

And in the end everybody loses. It's a problem for the countries taking in these refugees, because the majority of them don't even have the skill-set to gain employment and will be chronically unemployed. A large portion of them don't and will never respect western culture and will never integrate into society. They will cause crime and trouble. And they are almost all young, unattached males causing further trouble. (for example these "Asian" (Pakistani) rape rings you keep hearing about in England, well a large part of the reason this is a prevalent problem is that there are simply no single women out there for them to engage with. They culturally aren't even allowed to, and Pakistanis only send the young guys over, almost never the young women. Just like the Syrians do now)
Even for Syria in itself, it's a massive humanitarian disaster that will follow the wake of the war. Once the war is finished, for every 100k refugees taken in by Europe there will be many more people suffering the consequences in Syria. All the rich families have become citizens in another country. So many of the young healthy men who could be rebuilding the country are gone hanging out all day on European streetcorners blowing their welfare checks on weed. While all the women and all the weak, old and poor people are stuck trying to get the nation back on its feet. It will be a disaster for those left behind, which is the giant majority.

It's all the result of idiot politicians shouting at desperate people that they will take anyone who comes. Instead of what they should do, which is making sure these people have adequate food and adequate facilities in Turkey and Lebanon (which they don't have, which is another reason they come) while doing their best to ensure the violence stops as soon as possible. Can't score brownie points with the electorate doing that though...

Well said.

[poido123]

^^^

[sd3035]

Here's the thing though, these people aren't walking to Saudi Arabia, they aren't walking to the Emirates, they aren't walking to Eastern Europe or to Russia. Not only because they know they would be treated like dogs there while they can get free housing and a lifetime of free income in the West, but also because those governments have said "No, **** off. We are compassionate and help you out in another way, but we are not going to make you citizens just like that.".

It's the German government, the Swedish government etcetera who shout to the refugees "Come here, every refugee is welcome here and will be eligible for full citizenship.", while backhandedly telling all the other countries in the EU they have to take an equal share of the refugees they've invited. They are the ones responsible for this, these governments. You can go talk about how it's international law that a refugee needs to apply for status in the first safe country, that all goes out the window when governments themselves are saying that they don't care about that and will take everybody who comes.

And in the end everybody loses. It's a problem for the countries taking in these refugees, because the majority of them don't even have the skill-set to gain employment and will be chronically unemployed. A large portion of them don't and will never respect western culture and will never integrate into society. They will cause crime and trouble. And they are almost all young, unattached males causing further trouble. (for example these "Asian" (Pakistani) rape rings you keep hearing about in England, well a large part of the reason this is a prevalent problem is that there are simply no single women out there for them to engage with. They culturally aren't even allowed to, and Pakistanis only send the young guys over, almost never the young women. Just like the Syrians do now)
Even for Syria in itself, it's a massive humanitarian disaster that will follow the wake of the war. Once the war is finished, for every 100k refugees taken in by Europe there will be many more people suffering the consequences in Syria. All the rich families have become citizens in another country. So many of the young healthy men who could be rebuilding the country are gone hanging out all day on European streetcorners blowing their welfare checks on weed. While all the women and all the weak, old and poor people are stuck trying to get the nation back on its feet. It will be a disaster for those left behind, which is the giant majority.

It's all the result of idiot politicians shouting at desperate people that they will take anyone who comes. Instead of what they should do, which is making sure these people have adequate food and adequate facilities in Turkey and Lebanon (which they don't have, which is another reason they come) while doing their best to ensure the violence stops as soon as possible. Can't score brownie points with the electorate doing that though...

Pretty much this, thanks for saving us all the time lol

[knickballer]

Reported that 12% of the "refugees" are actually Syrians... You can tell that the ones heading to Europe aren't refugees because they don't look stereotypical Syrian. But I could be wrong there could be black and pakistani looking Syrians from Homs. :confusedshrug:

Remember this is just the start of this migration crisis. You think 1million is alot? Wait until Spring, then the next year and the following when it's going to double and triple. Alot of countries in the third world are experiencing astronomical birth rates despite having conflict, poverty and lack of resources. I know it's a liberal's wet dream but it's just damn impossible.

Europe needs to spend the money it will use on attempting to integrate these migrants(Which will most likely fail) and use invest it in those countries. First, actually help the Syrian refugees in Jordan and Lebannon who are living in desert camps there. The 30k-40k euros Germany will spend on one asylum seeker can benefit 10x amount in the actual refugees. But logic fails and it's all about looking good in front of the camera for these politicians.

[Bosnian Sajo]

Reported that 12% of the "refugees" are actually Syrians... You can tell that the ones heading to Europe aren't refugees because they don't look stereotypical Syrian. But I could be wrong there could be black and pakistani looking Syrians from Homs. :confusedshrug:

Remember this is just the start of this migration crisis. You think 1million is alot? Wait until Spring, then the next year and the following when it's going to double and triple. Alot of countries in the third world are experiencing astronomical birth rates despite having conflict, poverty and lack of resources. I know it's a liberal's wet dream but it's just damn impossible.

Europe needs to spend the money it will use on attempting to integrate these migrants(Which will most likely fail) and use invest it in those countries. First, actually help the Syrian refugees in Jordan and Lebannon who are living in desert camps there. The 30k-40k euros Germany will spend on one asylum seeker can benefit 10x amount in the actual refugees. But logic fails and it's all about looking good in front of the camera for these politicians.

I call bullshit, post a verified link or gtfo. No way.

[TheMan]

he has done too much phucked up shit for me to give him the benefit of the doubt like you have. Remember when he assassinated US citizens with drones without giving them fair trial?
I'm sorry but if you're advocating for the destruction of the US and actively training terrorists to kill innocent people, then I have no problem with the US taking whatever action it deems necessary to eliminate that threat.

Do you think Israel would think twice about killing an Israeli citizen if he was orchestrating attacks against Israel? Come on man, these aren't guys you can go and arrest. :facepalm

[Nick Young]

I'm sorry but if you're advocating for the destruction of the US and actively training terrorists to kill innocent people, then I have no problem with the US taking whatever action it deems necessary to eliminate that threat.

Do you think Israel would think twice about killing an Israeli citizen if he was orchestrating attacks against Israel? Come on man, these aren't guys you can go and arrest. :facepalm
I don't phucking know. I'm not Israeli and don't know shit about how their government operates. Why even bring that shit up? Do you ignorantly believe that all Jews are a hivemind?

All US citizens have the right to fair trial. They should have been captured, brought back to America and tried for treason-the president should never have the power to assassinate US citizens on the spot without trial.

[TheMan]

I don't phucking know. I'm not Israeli and don't know shit about how their government operates. Why even bring that shit up? Do you ignorantly believe that all Jews are a hivemind?

All US citizens have the right to fair trial. They should have been captured, brought back to America and tried for treason-the president should never have the power to assassinate US citizens on the spot without trial.
I bring up Israel because they're the country that has had to deal with Islamic terrorism more than any other country on Earth, that's all.

No, if a US citizen becomes a traitor and is actively trying to murder US citizens, then I have no problem with the traitor feeling the wrath of America. In a perfect world, yes it would be nice to walk into an Afghani village full of Islamic militants and presenting them with a warrant for the arrest of their leader. Somehow I don't believe it would be that easy, so if a drone strike is your only viable option, then that terrorist better be prepared to meet Allah sooner rather than later and not one single fvck would be given by me. :coleman:

Is this real life? I can't believe you're actually defending terrorists :wtf:

[poido123]

I call bullshit, post a verified link or gtfo. No way.


Not really bullshit.


It's closer to 20% and this refugee thing is just one big lie.


Here's a link: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3240010/Number-refugees-arriving-Europe-soars-85-year-just-one-five-war-torn-Syria.html


It gets better...


Saudi Arabia offering Germany the money to fund 200 mosques LOL. Dat generosity. What about taking in refugees? Nothing suss at all! :oldlol:



Link: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3242354/Saudi-offer-build-200-mosques-Germany-Syrian-migrants-slammed-cynical-Kingdom-not-offered-refugees-themselves.html




Should westerners/europeans be a little paranoid based on that information? If you weren't Muslim, you certainly would be.

[9erempiree]

Not really bullshit.


It's closer to 20% and this refugee thing is just one big lie.


Here's a link: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3240010/Number-refugees-arriving-Europe-soars-85-year-just-one-five-war-torn-Syria.html


It gets better...


Saudi Arabia offering Germany the money to fund 200 mosques LOL. Dat generosity. What about taking in refugees? Nothing suss at all! :oldlol:



Link: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3242354/Saudi-offer-build-200-mosques-Germany-Syrian-migrants-slammed-cynical-Kingdom-not-offered-refugees-themselves.html




Should westerners/europeans be a little paranoid based on that information? If you weren't Muslim, you certainly would be.

In regards to your discussion....I don't know what these people are arguing about. So what they are/are not from Syria. What are they arguing again?

Oh wait...I know....IT TAKES ONE TO KNOW ONE....and a Muslim knows exactly how their Muslim brothers are. Violent and low IQ. There is a reason why wealthy Arab nations don't want these people.

I guess this is their argument....they don't want them and we are supposedly being dishonest about their true nationality.

[bluechox2]

In regards to your discussion....I don't know what these people are arguing about. So what they are/are not from Syria. What are they arguing again?

Oh wait...I know....IT TAKES ONE TO KNOW ONE....and a Muslim knows exactly how their Muslim brothers are. Violent and low IQ. There is a reason why wealthy Arab nations don't want these people.

I guess this is their argument....they don't want them and we are supposedly being dishonest about their true nationality.
Or by avoiding them like a plague (the Arabs), it's easier to infiltrate the western world with sleepers by posing as a refugee to gain easy entry
Phase 1 is almost over, build thousands of mosques will allow for the invaders to gain foot to establish their community and allow the further teachings to fight the west
Even if the gov rebuffs the offer, all the Arabs do is give it to the sleeper radicals to build the mosque , no hardworking German looking for a living will turn down money