MJ's defense as a Wiz>>>

[andgar923]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvQfjsCuvX0&ab_channel=NobodyTouchesJordan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iY2mTKYPRE&ab_channel=NobodyTouchesJordan

MJ Wiz doc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68fsUdNIy6M&ab_channel=NobodyTouchesJordan

Even as an old man, with busted knees, bad ribs, bad back etc.etc. is a defensive stopper.

Don't think Kawhli Leonard or iggy would get MVP vs Wiz MJ, let alone prime.

[Smoke117]

A Jordan stan posting a MJ is better than Lebron thread...this is a new and exciting development on this forum... :sleeping

[juju151111]

A Jordan stan posting a MJ is better than Lebron thread...this is a new and exciting development on this forum... :sleeping
Watch the wiz doc Completely rapes the Prime Mj couldn't play in this era myth.

[Straight_Ballin]

lol MJ can't play in this era yet no one in this era has even come close to what Jordan has done. Ish logic :lol

Prince has the greatest chase down block of all time and Wiz Jordan has the 2nd greatest block. Don't even get me started on talking about other aspects of Jordan's defense as a wizard....

Lebron pales in comparison as does everyone else to ever play the game.

[sdot_thadon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvQfjsCuvX0&ab_channel=NobodyTouchesJordan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iY2mTKYPRE&ab_channel=NobodyTouchesJordan

MJ Wiz doc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68fsUdNIy6M&ab_channel=NobodyTouchesJordan

Even as an old man, with busted knees, bad ribs, bad back etc.etc. is a defensive stopper.

Don't think Kawhli Leonard or iggy would get MVP vs Wiz MJ, let alone prime.
They wouldn't get it cause wiz Mj doesn't make the playoffs.....


Watch the wiz doc Completely rapes the Prime Mj couldn't play in this era myth.
What idiot think Mj couldn't play in this era, and better yet why would you entertain something like that. Mj stans I tell ya.

[andgar923]

A Jordan stan posting a MJ is better than Lebron thread...this is a new and exciting development on this forum... :sleeping
Ad hominem Ad hominem Ad hominem Ad hominem

[bizil]

MJ in his Wizards stint was STILL a legit All Star caliber player. He moved more exclusively to the SF. And to be frank, he was a top 5 SF in the league. And when u factor the ALL AROUND ASPECTS, he was likely a top two to three SF in the all around game sense. In his last season, he put up 20 points, 4 assists, and six rebounds a game in 82 games at 40 years of age.

So individual wise, I think MJ's time with the Wizards was a success actually. My benchmarks for him was to be a 20 points-5 assists-5 rebound kind of player. And to be a very good defender. If a player does that OVER AN ENTIRE career, he has a shot at the Hall. So MJ doing that in his two years with the Wizards (even after having some injury problems) was a success. Especially considering the fact he was a perimeter player.

[kennethgriffin]

jordans defense was so good as a wizard that he preserved his skills during kobes near 50 point 1st half


saving it for a more important game i guess

[kennethgriffin]

MJ in his Wizards stint was STILL a legit All Star caliber player. He moved more exclusively to the SF. And to be frank, he was a top 5 SF in the league. And when u factor the ALL AROUND ASPECTS, he was likely a top two to three SF in the all around game sense. In his last season, he put up 20 points, 4 assists, and six rebounds a game in 82 games at 40 years of age.

So individual wise, I think MJ's time with the Wizards was a success actually. My benchmarks for him was to be a 20 points-5 assists-5 rebound kind of player. And to be a very good defender. If a player does that OVEN AN ENTIRE career, he has a shot at the Hall. So MJ doing that in his two years with the Wizards (even after having some injury problems) was a success. Especially considering the fact he was a perimeter player.


MJ in his wizards stint was STILL such a legit All Star caliber player that he didn't even need approval from fans that vote in the starters. all that was important is if one of Tracy Mcgrady or Vince Carter would step down to make it happen

[TheMarkMadsen]

jordans defense was so good as a wizard that he preserved his skills during kobes near 50 point 1st half


saving it for a more important game i guess



:roll: :roll:

[juju151111]

jordans defense was so good as a wizard that he preserved his skills during kobes near 50 point 1st half


saving it for a more important game i guess

Kobe scored 50 points the next season on Stackhouse and mj was 40 by then with multiple surgeries. The point is 38 tear old Mj with broken rip,sliced finger,tendinitis in his knee(the same injury that made duncan have a bad season, constantly drained knee throughout the season, but yet was putting up those numbers and getting better has the season went on. Also when Mj and Kobe guarded each other in other games has a wizard Mj played pretty good. He had a 9/15 game against Nba champions Lakers in 03

[juju151111]

MJ in his wizards stint was STILL such a legit All Star caliber player that he didn't even need approval from fans that vote in the starters. all that was important is if one of Tracy Mcgrady or Vince Carter would step down to make it happen
You mean in 03? The next year? The doc covers the 01-02 season retard. Before his knee injury. The same vince Carter he dhut down by using the famous battier hand in face technique. Yea Mj been doing that defensive trick.

[TheMarkMadsen]

You mean in 03? The next year? The doc covers the 01-02 season retard. Before his knee injury. The same vince Carter he dhut down by using the famous battier hand in face technique. Yea Mj been doing that defensive trick.

can you not read the title of the thread :wtf:

why do you keep trying to make it about one year when the op clearly states that he's talking about his career as a wizard.. which would include both years :facepalm

[Megabox!]

LeGod got these Jordan stans insecure

[juju151111]

can you not read the title of the thread :wtf:

why do you keep trying to make it about one year when the op clearly states that he's talking about his career as a wizard.. which would include both years :facepalm
All his videos he posted was from the first season. My point is 38 year old Mj averaged tmac numbers before his knee injury at 38 years old with a broken rip,messed up knees,sliced figure. Not only that he was improving has the season went on because he was out of shape at the start because of the 3 year layoff and couldn't practice sometimes. He shut down the new era best athletic guard in his prime VC.:roll: prime Mj would massacre this league with flopping ass Harden in the top 5 in scoring.

[bizil]

How many perimeter players in the league TODAY will get at least 20 points, 5 boards, and 5 assists WHILE providing very good defense? That list will be VERY SHORT!! Other than Lebron and Westbrook, who DID THAT THIS PAST YEAR??

The fact that Wizards MJ was getting 21.5 points, 5.9 boards, 4.5 dimes, and providing very good defense says it all.

[juju151111]

How many perimeter players in the league TODAY will get at least 20 points, 5 boards, and 5 assists WHILE providing very good defense? That list will be VERY SHORT!! Other than Lebron and Westbrook, who DID THAT THIS YEAR??

The fact that Wizards MJ was getting 21.5 points, 5.9 boards, 4.5 dimes, and providing very good defense says it all.
Actually he was improving his stats all year before his injuries. He came into the season out of shape because of the 3 year layoff,rip injury, and knee drains. Before his first game that season he missed 3 practices because of injury. Look at his stats momth to month. Also think him amd tmac had the most 40 pt games that season.

[sekachu]

MJ in his wizards stint was STILL such a legit All Star caliber player that he didn't even need approval from fans that vote in the starters. all that was important is if one of Tracy Mcgrady or Vince Carter would step down to make it happen




With 3 years layoff and being an old player, clearly the young fan wouldn't vote for old wizard MJ as a starter when tmac and vince carter were one of the most exciting player at that time.

[bizil]

When it comes to MJ as an All Star with the Wiz, he was EASILY still an All Star caliber player on his own merit. Even without the fans getting him in. The NEGATIVE thing holding him back would have been the Wizards' record. But in general, it was CLEAR to see that MJ was a top five SF in the world!!

[sekachu]

can you not read the title of the thread :wtf:

why do you keep trying to make it about one year when the op clearly states that he's talking about his career as a wizard.. which would include both years :facepalm




You didn't watch the video :facepalm

[sekachu]

jordans defense was so good as a wizard that he preserved his skills during kobes near 50 point 1st half


saving it for a more important game i guess





You think this would diminish wizard jordan wasn't a good defensive player by bringing up a prime kobe. This isn't even a fair point at all :roll:

[plowking]

I'd rather have 5 Bron's on my team defending than 5 MJ's.

Bron was a bigger plus and more impactful defender during his best days.

[juju151111]

I'd rather have 5 Bron's on my team defending than 5 MJ's.

Bron was a bigger plus and more impactful defender during his best days.
Sit your dumbass down bro

[ClipperRevival]

I'd rather have 5 Bron's on my team defending than 5 MJ's.

Bron was a bigger plus and more impactful defender during his best days.

You mean at their peak? If so. :facepalm

[DatAsh]

I'd rather have 5 Bron's on my team defending than 5 MJ's.

Bron was a bigger plus and more impactful defender during his best days.

I can't see Jordan being able to defend centers at all, so I agree with what you said.

[DatAsh]

You mean at their peak? If so. :facepalm

Jordan was a better defender than Lebron, any way you slice it up. He was a better help defender - probably the best I've ever seen - and a much better individual defender, but he didn't have Lebron's size and strength, so I could see a team of 5 Lebrons being better than 5 Jordans defensively. 5 Jordans would be exploited horribly at the center position.

[ClipperRevival]

I always view MJ's Wiz days as sort of a freak show type deal. He was part owner and he wanted to play. He hired the coach (Doug Collins) that would do exactly what he wanted. But MJ was 39 and 40 and that is simply ancient for a wing player. So any flaws he had during this time, I don't hold it against him one bit. A guy his age should not be in the NBA, especially as a wing.

Sidenote: In those two seasons, MJ had 7 games of 40+ points and his teams went 7-1 in those games.

[ClipperRevival]

Jordan was a better defender than Lebron, any way you slice it up. He was a better help defender - probably the best I've ever seen - and a much better individual defender, but he didn't have Lebron's size and strength, so I could see a team of 5 Lebrons being better than 5 Jordans defensively. 5 Jordans would be exploited horribly at the center position.

There is no scenario where 5 MJs or 5 Lebrons play. But if he's saying that at their peak, Bron was a better defender than MJ, the boy is on crack.

[DatAsh]

There is no scenario where 5 MJs or 5 Lebrons play. But if he's saying that at their peak, Bron was a better defender than MJ, the boy is on crack.

I don't think he's saying that. I read his post as "5 Lebrons would make a better defensive unit that 5 Jordans", which I agree with.

[plowking]

You mean at their peak? If so. :facepalm

Yep.

Bron is so typically underrated on here, but whatever. You say he is better than anyone at anything, particularly Jordan, and there is an uproar.

But Jordan is apparently close to Bron in everything. 3 pointers? Excuse is Jordan didn't shoot enough, and could have been better. Passing? He was, he was just so much better at scoring he didn't need to.

Fact is, you don't hold players like Rose, Tony Parker, David West, Pierce, etc to horrible numbers, without being a flat out elite defender.
Bron is a more impactful defender. He is bigger, stronger, and covers the court as well as MJ. He had players scared to take open layups during his peak.

Eh, whatever. Typical discussion on ISH. "It's not close! You're stupid!".
Jordan ain't the best at everything. Just so you know.

[TheMarkMadsen]

There is no scenario where 5 MJs or 5 Lebrons play. But if he's saying that at their peak, Bron was a better defender than MJ, the boy is on crack.

not at all though, he's always had trouble guarding fast players

there's a reason he's only made like 5 all defensive teams

[plowking]

Jordan was a better defender than Lebron, any way you slice it up. He was a better help defender - probably the best I've ever seen - and a much better individual defender, but he didn't have Lebron's size and strength, so I could see a team of 5 Lebrons being better than 5 Jordans defensively. 5 Jordans would be exploited horribly at the center position.

He was a better man defender. In no way was he a better help or team defender. Bron was literally always in the right place at the right time.

There was even an article saying how Bron was ahead of a computer generated model in terms of being in the right place at the right time on defense just a while back.

[plowking]

not at all though, he's always had trouble guarding fast players

there's a reason he's only made like 5 all defensive teams

Any player with an elite first step, or who doesn't overdribble like Paul George or Leonard, he struggles against. Usually elite SF's since they tend to use their length and pace.

PG's and SG's he eats up due to overdribbling, and PF's he is too quick for and has great hands.

[ClipperRevival]

Yep.

Bron is so typically underrated on here, but whatever. You say he is better than anyone at anything, particularly Jordan, and there is an uproar.

But Jordan is apparently close to Bron in everything. 3 pointers? Excuse is Jordan didn't shoot enough, and could have been better. Passing? He was, he was just so much better at scoring he didn't need to.

Fact is, you don't hold players like Rose, Tony Parker, David West, Pierce, etc to horrible numbers, without being a flat out elite defender.
Bron is a more impactful defender. He is bigger, stronger, and covers the court as well as MJ. He had players scared to take open layups during his peak.

Eh, whatever. Typical discussion on ISH. "It's not close! You're stupid!".
Jordan ain't the best at everything. Just so you know.

If you had said Bron was a great defender at his peak, I would agree. But you said he was better than MJ. Come on. MJ was a defensive beast. He could keep anyone in front of him. He had far superior lateral movement, quickness and ability to change directions. That gave him the ability to cover more ground and be more impactful.

Bron was great going in a straight line but he couldn't touch MJ in lateral mobility, quickness and change of direction. And those factors are huge. MJ was a great man defender and help defender. He created steals (7th all time in spg) and at his peak, averaged almost 1.5 blocks over a 3 year stretch.

Yes, Bron was taller, bigger and stronger and that helped him guard 4s and sometimes 5s. And that does matter. And he could handle himself better in the post but MJ was clearly a superior overall defender.

[juju151111]

Yep.

Bron is so typically underrated on here, but whatever. You say he is better than anyone at anything, particularly Jordan, and there is an uproar.

But Jordan is apparently close to Bron in everything. 3 pointers? Excuse is Jordan didn't shoot enough, and could have been better. Passing? He was, he was just so much better at scoring he didn't need to.

Fact is, you don't hold players like Rose, Tony Parker, David West, Pierce, etc to horrible numbers, without being a flat out elite defender.
Bron is a more impactful defender. He is bigger, stronger, and covers the court as well as MJ. He had players scared to take open layups during his peak.

Eh, whatever. Typical discussion on ISH. "It's not close! You're stupid!".
Jordan ain't the best at everything. Just so you know.
Mj was the better help defender. LJ and definitely the better man defender. LJ was better at guarding bigs because of height and strength and a great help defender himself.

[juju151111]

He was a better man defender. In no way was he a better help or team defender. Bron was literally always in the right place at the right time.

There was even an article saying how Bron was ahead of a computer generated model in terms of being in the right place at the right time on defense just a while back.
Bro Mj was known to be everywhere on defense. He and only a few others or the only ones to average 200+ stls and 100 blks. Mj did it twice.

[DonDadda59]

Bro Mj was known to be everywhere on defense. He and only a few others or the only ones to average 200+ stls and 100 blks. Mj did it twice.

Jordan
Pippen
Olajuwon

The only 3 players in NBA History to record at least 100 blocks and 200 steals. Michael Jordan is the only player to do it twice. He averaged 3.2 SPG (led the NBA) and 1.6 BPG in his DPOY season. That's a level LBJ never did and never could reach at his absolute best.

Anyone who thinks Bron is on MJ's level, or worse- better, as a man or help defender smokes PCP. No other explanation. Bron's only advantage on D is being able to match up with bigger players because he's the size of Karl Malone. And even then I was never really all that impressed with his post D.

[plowking]

Jordan
Pippen
Olajuwon

The only 3 players in NBA History to record at least 100 blocks and 200 steals. Michael Jordan is the only player to do it twice. He averaged 3.2 SPG (led the NBA) and 1.6 BPG in his DPOY season. That's a level LBJ never did and never could reach at his absolute best.

Anyone who thinks Bron is on MJ's level, or worse- better, as a man or help defender smokes PCP. No other explanation. Bron's only advantage on D is being able to match up with bigger players because he's the size of Karl Malone. And even then I was never really all that impressed with his post D.

Piss off. It was one time.

Fine... two.

[sdot_thadon]

I see ya plowking, just because of the sheer versatility I agree with you. Lebron is more capable of more roles on defense than Mj was. Period. Mj was a better man defender hands down, but as a disruptive help defender they are on the same level prime for prime. Jordanites need to calm down. It'll be aight.

[Dragonyeuw]

MJ in his wizards stint was STILL such a legit All Star caliber player that he didn't even need approval from fans that vote in the starters. all that was important is if one of Tracy Mcgrady or Vince Carter would step down to make it happen

In 2002, he was voted in by the fans.

In 2003 he was voted in by the coaches/media, which is probably more of an honor.

Vince 2003: 20.6 ppg, 4.4 rpg, 3.3 apg, 1.1 spg, 1.0 bpg .467%, 43 games
MJ 2003: 20.0 ppg, 6.1 rpg, 3.8 apg, 1.5 spg, 0.5 bpg, .445%, 82 games

This is a 40 year old MJ's stats against a 26 year old Vince. And MJ came off the bench to begin the season, and still wound up with better across the board stats.

[Optimus Prime]

Anybody who doesn't recognize how amazing it was for Wizard's MJ to do what he did either wasn't born yet or is straight-up trolling.

:kobe:

[OldSchoolBBall]

lol @ people claiming Bron has ever been on prime Jordan's level as a team/help defender, and especially as a disruptive defender. :oldlol: Get your eyes checked and learn the game. It's not even close, really. Among perimeter players, only Pippen is in that conversation.

[sdot_thadon]

lol @ people claiming Bron has ever been on prime Jordan's level as a team/help defender, and especially as a disruptive defender. :oldlol: Get your eyes checked and learn the game. It's not even close, really. Among perimeter players, only Pippen is in that conversation.
Your name says it all, but it's all good. Let's hear it. You didn't watch lebron basically become the anchor for a team that had no size? From 09 on he was great but he hit another level in Miami midway through their run. I get it he's been coasting here and there the last few years but all of the greats get to that point. It's just the ones that are supposed to remember these things act clueless. Man to man, mj all day. Help defense is a toss up. Not to mention being a terror in transition.

[red1]

Don't think Kawhli Leonard or iggy would get MVP vs Wiz MJ, let alone prime.
oh, buddy. where do we begin...

[Rocketswin2013]

He was a better man defender. In no way was he a better help or team defender. Bron was literally always in the right place at the right time.

There was even an article saying how Bron was ahead of a computer generated model in terms of being in the right place at the right time on defense just a while back.


Ultra-aggressive help defense is really hard work. Replay that clip and watch how far DeRozan's ghost has to move as the Knicks swing the ball. That's brutal, and it's not a coincidence that the only team that consistently mirrors the help defense of its ghosts is Miami, Rucker says.

The Heat have three of the best wing defenders in the league in Shane Battier, LeBron James, and Dwyane Wade, and the latter two are among the NBA's most gifted pure athletes. James can mimic DeRozan's hyperactive ghost in a way no other player can, Rucker says. "LeBron basically messes up the system and the ghosts," Rucker says. "He does things that are just unsustainable for most players."

LeBron James is better at playing defense than the idealized version of an NBA defender, as conceptualized by an analytic system that factors in everything from the precise positioning of every player on the floor to the individual skill-sets of the players involved on a given play.LeBron James is not fair.

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http://grantland.com/features/the-toronto-raptors-sportvu-cameras-nba-analytical-revolution/