Better Finals Performer: Kobe or Bron?

[Wade's Rings]

Kobe: 5 Wins, 2 losses
2000 Finals: 15.6./4.6/4.2 /1.0 /1.4 shooting 37%
2001 Finals: 24.6/7.8/5.8/1.4/1.4 shooting 42%
2002 Finals: 26.8/5.8/5.3/1.5/8 shooting 51%
2004 Finals: 22.6/2.8/4.4/1.8/.6 shooting 38%
2008 Finals: 25.7/4.7/5.0/2.7/.2 , shooting 41%
2009 Finals: 32.4 /5.6/7.4/1.4/1.4 shooting 43%
2010 Finals: 28.6/8.0/3.9/2.1/.7 shooting 41%

Career Finals Average: 25.1/5.6/5.1/1.4/.7 shooting 41%

Lebron: 2 Wins, 4 Losses
2007 Finals: 22/7/6.8/1/.5 shooting 36%
2011 Finals: 17.8/7.2/6.8/1.7/.5 shooting 48%
2012 Finals: 28.6/10.2/7.4/1.6/.4 shooting 47%
2013 Finals: 25.3/10.9/7/2.3/.9 shooting 45%
2014 Finals: 28.2/7.8/4/2/.4 shooting 57%
2015 Finals: 35.8/13.3/8.8/1.3/.5 shooting 40%

Career Finals Average: 26.2/9.4/6.8/1.7/.5 shooting 46%

Who performs better on the biggest stage?

[SouBeachTalents]

Ranking their Finals

1. LeBron 2012
2. Kobe 2009
3. LeBron 2015
4. Kobe 2002
5. LeBron 2013
6. Kobe 2010
7. Kobe 2001
8. LeBron 2014
9. Kobe 2008
10. LeBron 2007
11. Kobe 2000
12. Kobe 2004
13. LeBron 2011

[Beastmode88]

Ranking their Finals

1. LeBron 2012
2. Kobe 2009
3. LeBron 2015
4. Kobe 2002
5. LeBron 2013
6. Kobe 2010
7. Kobe 2001
8. LeBron 2014
9. Kobe 2008
10. LeBron 2007
11. Kobe 2000
12. Kobe 2004















99. LeBron 2011

FTFY

[SouBeachTalents]

FTFY

:lol Wouldn't disagree

[MastaKilla]

I would take Kobe's 01 finals over Lebron's in 2013

Kobe played pretty bad in game 1, but was really damn good games 2-5, leading the team in scoring for games 2 & 3 with b2b 30+ games, 19/10/9 in game 4 and finished it off with a 26/12/6 game

lebron in 2013 struggled games 1-3 & game 5

if Kobe struggles in games 1-3 the 76ers probably win the series

[ClipperRevival]

Wrong thread. Delete.

[MastaKilla]

Wade had the higher peak in 2006 (although Kobe was magnificent in 2009) but overall, I have to give the edge to Kobe. Kobe winning 2 straight as "the man" carries a lot of weight and that is something not too many greats have done. And let's not forget he had to go through the ultra competitive WC his whole career just to get to the finals.

not sure why op decided to make another thread comparing somebody to Kobe in the finals, wrong thread but it was easy to confuse the two

[kennethgriffin]

welp

2 for 6

vs

5 for 7



so...












http://media.giphy.com/media/4bA1znk868IE/giphy.gif

[kennethgriffin]

Ranking their Finals

1. LeBron 2012
2. Kobe 2009
3. LeBron 2015
4. Kobe 2002
5. LeBron 2013
6. Kobe 2010
7. Kobe 2001
8. LeBron 2014
9. Kobe 2008
10. LeBron 2007
11. Kobe 2000
12. Kobe 2004
13. LeBron 2011


you cant put a title with the colluded prime wade/bosh with either a lockout or a bail out ray allen shot over kobes natural titles without shaq or any other top 80-90 player all time


just stop already



:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:


and holy f*ck at a 2015 nomination

27% outside of 5 feet, 37% vs iggy

[SouBeachTalents]

welp

2 for 6

vs

5 for 7



so...











http://media.giphy.com/media/4bA1znk868IE/giphy.gif

:oldlol: at using this argument when Kobe was severely outplayed by Shaq in his first 4 Finals

[JT123]

Bron of course. :wtf:
Anyone who says Kobe is either trolling or retarded

[DatAsh]

Ranking their Finals

1. LeBron 2012
2. Kobe 2009
3. LeBron 2015
4. Kobe 2002
5. LeBron 2013
6. Kobe 2010
7. Kobe 2001
8. LeBron 2014
9. Kobe 2008
10. LeBron 2007
11. Kobe 2000
12. Kobe 2004
13. LeBron 2011


Lebron's 2013 Finals were better than his 2014 or 2015 finals. He was terrible defensively in both those latter years, and outstanding in the former. His 2014 Finals were better than his 2015 finals; he had a great jumpshot in that series. 2015 Lebron just had more responsibility. The Warriors were a great team, but they played terribly that series, and I could honestly see several other versions of Lebron winning that series.

[SouBeachTalents]

Lebron's 2013 Finals were better than his 2014 or 2015 finals. He was terrible defensively in both that latter years, and outstanding in the former. His 2014 Finals were better than his 2015 finals; he had a great jumpshot in that series. 2015 Lebron just had more responsibility. The Warriors were a great team, but they played terribly that series, and I could honestly see several other versions of Lebron winning that series.

LeBron's 2014 was honestly the toughest to rank. He put up nice looking numbers, but he got outplayed by Kawhi the last 3 games, and it's just hard to take any numbers from a series that was mostly played in garbage time seriously

[kennethgriffin]

#1 Kobe 2009 ( automatically better than either lebron title )
#2 Kobe 2010 ( automatically better than either lebron title )
#3 Kobe 2002 ( happened in a real season, no elimination game bail out )
#4 Kobe 2001 ( happened in a real season, no elimination game bail out )
#5 LeBron 2013 ( bail out, ring chase, collude )
#6 Kobe 2000 ( poor finals due to injury but saved the season )
#7 LeBron 2012 ( lockout, automatically voided. but still better than nothing )
#8 Kobe 2008 ( played good. boston was just better )
#9 LeBron 2014 ( cramps, quit the finals )
#10 kobe 2004 ( single handedly won the lakers their only game )
#11 lebron 2015 ( 27%? really??????! )
#12 lebron 2007 ( hoooly f*ck )
#13 lebron 2011 ( probably the most pathetic thing i've ever seen in my life. and i've seen lebrons c*ck )

[MastaKilla]

Lebron's 2013 Finals were better than his 2014 or 2015 finals. He was terrible defensively in both those latter years, and outstanding in the former. His 2014 Finals were better than his 2015 finals; he had a great jumpshot in that series. 2015 Lebron just had more responsibility. The Warriors were a great team, but they played terribly that series, and I could honestly see several other versions of Lebron winning that series.


:applause:


His 2014 Finals were better than his 2015 finals; he had a great jumpshot in that series.

disagree because he should have been more aggressive in 14 like he was in 15, at times in 14 imo looked like he was just accepting the loss.. :confusedshrug:

[kennethgriffin]

:oldlol: at using this argument when Kobe was severely outplayed by Shaq in his first 4 Finals


he still dominated 2 of those finals though. and made it possible for the other to even exist in the first place ( game 7 wcf 2000 + saving game 4 nba finals, shutting down reggie in game 1 making him shoot 1 for 16 or some sh*t )



as for playoffs and finals 2nd leading scorers. kobe has the 2 highest averages all time

Playoffs:

2001 Kobe Bryant 29.4
2002 Kobe Bryant 26.6
1986 Kevin Mchale 24.9
1958 Bob Pettit 24.2
1963 Sam Jones 23.8
1966 John Havlicek 23.6
1972 Jerry West 22.9
2012 Dwyane Wade 22.8
1987 Magic Johnson 21.8
1967 Wilt Chamberlain 21.7
1991 Scottie Pippen 21.6
1985 James Worthy 21.5
1978 Bob Dandridge 21.2
2000 Kobe Bryant 21.1
1957 Bill Sharman 21.1
1976 Dave Cowens 21.0
1979 Dennis Johnson 20.9
2005 Manu Ginobili 20.8
2007 Tony Parker 20.8
1962 Tom Heinsohn 20.7
1968 Sam Jones 20.5
1995 Clyde Drexler 20.5
1974 Dave Cowens 20.5
1982 Kareem Abdul Jabbar 20.4
1980 Jamaal Wilkes 20.3
1956 Neil Johnston 20.3
1993 Scottie Pippen 20.1
1959 Bill Sharman 20.1
2006 Shaquille O'neal 20.0
1988 Magic Johnson 19.9
2010 Pau Gasol 19.6
1992 Scottie Pippen 19.5
1997 Scottie Pippen 19.2
1971 Bob Dandridge 19.2
1961 Bill Russell 19.1
2008 Kevin Garnett 18.8
1983 Andrew Tony 18.8
2015 Klay Thompson 18.6
1965 John Havlicek 18.5
1960 Bill Russell 18.5
2009 Pau Gasol 18.3
1977 Bill Walton 18.2
1990 Joe Dumars 18.2
1989 Joe Dumars 17.6
2011 Jason Terry 17.5
1964 Tom Heinsohn 17.4
1970 Dick Barnett 16.9
1996 Scottie Pippen 16.9
1998 Scottie Pippen 16.8
1969 Sam Jones 16.8
1984 Dennis Johnson 16.6
2004 Chauncey Billups 16.4
2014 Tim Duncan 16.3
1981 Cedric Maxwell 16.1
1973 Earl Monroe 16.1
1952 Jim Pollard 16.1
2013 Dwyane Wade 15.9
1951 Bob Davies 15.9
1999 David Robinson 15.6
1975 Jamaal Wilkes 15.0
2003 Tony Parker 14.7
1953 Jim Pollard 14.3
1994 Vernon Maxwell 13.8
1955 Red Kerr 13.8
1950 Vern Mikkelsen 13.0
1954 Jim Pollard 12.3




Finals:

2002 Kobe Bryant 26.8
2001 Kobe bryant 24.6
1958 Bob Pettit 24.0 ( Cliff Hagan 25.3, playoffs and finals leader )
1986 Larry Bird 24.0 ( Mchale 25.8ppg )
1985 James Worthy 23.7
1971 Oscar Robertson 23.5
1963 Tom Heinsohn 23.3 ( Jones 24.6 )
1966 Sam Jones 22.9
1974 Dave Cowens 22.7
1979 Dennis Johnson 22.6 ( Gus Williams 29.0ppg finals, playoffs leader too..wtf? )
2012 Dwyane Wade 22.6
1959 Tie* Sharman/Ramsay 22.5 ( heinsohn 24.2 )
1962 Sam Jones 22.1 ( russell 22.8 )
1983 Andrew Tony 22.0 ( Julius Erving 3rd option in playoffs and finals )
1957 Bill Sharman 21.8 ( Heinsohn 24.0 )
1987 Kareem Abdul Jabbar 21.7
1980 Magic Johnson 21.5
1995 Clyde Drexler 21.5
1989 Isiah Thomas 21.3
1993 Scottie Pippen 21.2
1988 Magic Johnson 21.1
1968 Bailey Howell 21.0
2004 Chauncey Billups 21.0 (Rip playoff and finals leader. robbed )
1992 Scottie Pippen 20.8
1991 Scottie Pippen 20.8
1990 Joe Dumars 20.6
1976 Dave Cowens 20.5
1978 Bob Dandridge 20.4
2008 Ray Allen 20.3
1997 Scottie Pippen 20.0
1972 Jerry West 19.8
2013 Dwyane Wade 19.6
2005 Manu Ginobili 18.7
1969 Sam Jones 18.7
1970 Dick Barnett 18.6
2010 Pau Gasol 18.6
2009 Pau Gasol 18.6
1977 Bill Walton 18.5
1960 Frank Ramsay 18.4 ( Heinsohn 22.4 )
1964 John Havlicek 18.4
2007 Tim Duncan 18.3
1965 John Havlicek 18.2
2011 Jason Terry 18.0
1982 Kareem Abdul Jabbar 18.0
2014 Kawhi Leonard 17.8
1967 Wilt Chamberlain 17.7 ( Hal Greer 26.0ppg. would have been mvp )
1961 Bill Russell 17.6 ( heinsohn 22.0 )
1984 Dennis Johnson 17.6
1951 Bob Davies 17.0
1999 David Robinson 16.6
1973 Willis Reed 16.4
1952 Jim Pollard 16.4
2015 Andre Iguodala 16.3
1998 Scottie Pippen 15.7
1996 Scottie Pippen 15.7
2000 Kobe Bryant 15.6 ( *19.0 minus the 2 point injury game )
1981 Larry Bird 15.3 ( ....................wtf? )
1953 Jim Pollard 14.4
2003 Tony Parker 14.0
2006 Antoine Walker 13.8 ( Shaq only averaged 13.7 )
1956 Neil Johnston 13.6 ( Arizin 27.6 )
1950 Jim Pollard 13.6 ( mikan 32.1 )
1994 Vernon Maxwell 13.4
1955 Kerr 12.2 ( schayes 19.0 )
1975 Jamaal Wilkes 11.5
1954 Pollard 10.8 ( Mikan 18.1 )

[SouBeachTalents]

#1 Kobe 2009 ( automatically better than either lebron title )
#2 Kobe 2010 ( automatically better than either lebron title )
#3 Kobe 2002 ( happened in a real season, no elimination game bail out )
#4 Kobe 2001 ( happened in a real season, no elimination game bail out )
#5 LeBron 2013 ( bail out, ring chase, collude )
#6 Kobe 2000 ( poor finals due to injury but saved the season )
#7 LeBron 2012 ( lockout, automatically voided. but still better than nothing )
#8 Kobe 2008 ( played good. boston was just better )
#9 LeBron 2014 ( cramps, quit the finals )
#10 kobe 2004 ( single handedly won the lakers their only game )
#11 lebron 2015 ( 27%? really??????! )
#12 lebron 2007 ( hoooly f*ck )
#13 lebron 2011 ( probably the most pathetic thing i've ever seen in my life. and i've seen lebrons c*ck )

You're probably the only person in the world who

1. Thinks Kobe "played good" in the '08 Finals
2. Would rank his terrible '00 Finals over LeBron's 2012
3. Would rank his horrendous '04 Finals over LeBron's 2015

[Rocketswin2013]

LeBron's '14 Finals really had potential to be his best, by far. Like prime Jordan level. The shots he was consistently hitting made him the most unstoppable he ever was. Maybe outside of 2009.

The sag-off defense would've been completely crushed under normal circumstances.

[20Four]

Bron of course. :wtf:
Anyone who says Kobe is either trolling or retarded
Honestly do you really have anything else better to do than be a troll? Do you go to school? or go out? Like WTF....I'm starting to feel sorry for you, you actually get off when you troll? WTF :facepalm :facepalm

[TheMarkMadsen]

LeBron's '14 Finals really had potential to be his best, by far. Like prime Jordan level. The shots he was consistently hitting made him the most unstoppable he ever was. Maybe outside of 2009.

The sag-off defense would've been completely crushed under normal circumstances.

wow!! that's sick, he would have crushed a defense if they gave him 10 ft of space on every possesion..

so would most average nba players.. :confusedshrug: :confusedshrug:

[kennethgriffin]

You're probably the only person in the world who

1. Thinks Kobe "played good" in the '08 Finals
2. Would rank his terrible '00 Finals over LeBron's 2012
3. Would rank his horrendous '04 Finals over LeBron's 2015

1. 2008 Finals: 25.7/4.7/5.0/2.7/.2 , shooting 41%

this is ... "good" ... its not great. but if you consider its a guy shooting mostly long jumpers and getting to the line to make up for the fg%. its more than good.


2. a real title by a key contributor no matter what the final average is due to injuries will forever be above a FAKE SEASON title

kobe made the 2000 finals possible... then he saved it in game 4. shutting down reggie in game 1. and putting up huge point/rebounding numbers in the clincher

3. atleast in 2004 kobe shot above 27% from farther than 5 feet.. lebron shoulda played on a play school net


atleast kobe lost finals mvp to a future hall of famer chauncey billups. lebron lost it to a role player bench scrub

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[AnaheimLakers24]

Kobe. If bron was better why does he only have 1.5* rings ?

[kennethgriffin]

duncans 1999 title and lebrons 2012 titles dont belong in any comparison to another stars titles


no matter how either performed. its a fake season and belongs in a class all in itself



i even put titles from the 60s over them

i cut those BS titles in half aswell.. but i'd give a 60s title 50.01% to lebron and duncans 50.00%

[GoatBoy]

2009 and 2010 should have been Lakers Cavs both times but Lebron wasn't ready for primetime and incidentally ran to Miami... :facepalm

Kobe woulda given y'all no choice but to pick him after beating the Cavs back to back

[SouBeachTalents]

2009 and 2010 should have been Lakers Cavs both times but Lebron wasn't ready for primetime and incidentally ran to Miami... :facepalm

Kobe woulda given y'all no choice but to pick him after beating the Cavs back to back

2009 ECF
LeBron: 39/8/8 49%

[CarlosBoozer]

Who has more rings doe?
Exactly, Russell does.

[Rocketswin2013]

wow!! that's sick, he would have crushed a defense if they gave him 10 ft of space on every possesion..

so would most average nba players.. :confusedshrug: :confusedshrug:
LeBron got that space because he was the GOAT slasher.

Very, very rarely are players so good they put great defenses in lose-lose situations.

[Hey Yo]

2009 ECF
LeBron: 39/8/8 49%
2009 Finals:

KoMe 27FGA needed to avg. 32ppg......43%

[3ball]

Kobe's stats were achieved within a winning system, which is harder to do than Lebron's clearout, playground-style stat accumulation.
.

[3ball]

:facepalm

[3ball]

Here's why Lebron's 2015 Finals wasn't that impressive:

In the 2010 Finals, Kobe averaged 32/6/7 within the triangle... That was good enough to win the series.. Otoh, Lebron's 36/13/9 from the 2015 Finals would NOT have won the 2010 Finals, because the only way Lebron achieved those stats is by playing a highly suboptimal, grade school-level, clearout/playground style that had no chance of beating the 2010 Celtics (just like it had no chance of beating the Warriors)..

Like, Kobe could've averaged 40 ppg in ANY series if he just wanted to accumulate stats and not win.. But Kobe got his 32/6/7 in a very strict, equal-opportunity, WINNING system - that makes his stats more impressive and better than Lebron's losing, playground-style stat accumulation.

[Hey Yo]

Here's why Lebron's 2015 Finals wasn't that impressive:

In the 2010 Finals, Kobe averaged 32/6/7 within the triangle... That was good enough to win the series.. Otoh, Lebron's 36/13/9 from the 2015 Finals would NOT have won the 2010 Finals, because the only way Lebron achieved those stats is by playing a highly suboptimal, grade school-level, clearout/playground style that had no chance of beating the 2010 Celtics (just like it had no chance of beating the Warriors)..

Like, Kobe could've averaged 40 ppg in ANY series if he just wanted to accumulate stats and not win.. But Kobe got his 32/6/7 in a very strict, equal-opportunity, WINNING system - that makes his stats more impressive and better than Lebron's losing, playground-style stat accumulation.
dumb

Pau and Peace > Thompson and _____

[3ball]

dumb

Pau and Peace > Thompson and _____
Lebron's 36/13/9 from the 2015 Finals couldn't have won the Finals for any team in any year, because for him to get those stats, his team was forced to play a highly suboptimal, clearout/playground style that had no chance of beating a team good enough to make the Finals (like the 2010 Celtics for example).

Otoh, Kobe's 32/6/7 was enough to beat the 2010 Celtics, because he got those stats within a strict, equal-opportunity, WINNING system, so the stats meant more and required more skill to get.. The reality is that Kobe, Jordan, Bird, and many others could've employed Lebron's clearout, playground style and averaged 40 ppg in any series if they just wanted to accumulate stats and not win.

[3ball]

dumb

Pau and Peace > Thompson and _____
Thompson and Curry or whoever played in a winning system (an equal-opportunity offense)... Lebron couldn't have averaged 36 ppg in a winning system or an equal-opportunity offense... That would require elite off-ball and post ability like MJ, Bird or Kobe.

Lebron can only get 36 ppg in the clearout, playground style we saw in 2015 Finals that has zero chance of beating any Finals participant.

[Hey Yo]

Lebron's 36/13/9 from the 2015 Finals couldn't have won the Finals for any team in any year, because for him to get those stats, his team was forced to play a highly suboptimal, clearout/playground style that had no chance of beating a team good enough to make the Finals (like the 2010 Celtics for example).

Otoh, Kobe's 32/6/7 was enough to beat the 2010 Celtics, because he got those stats within a strict, equal-opportunity, WINNING system, so the stats meant more and required more skill to get.. The reality is that Kobe, Jordan, Bird, and many others could've employed Lebron's clearout, playground style and averaged 40 ppg in any series if they just wanted to accumulate stats and not win.
They were forced to play that way because the 2nd and 3rd best options were sidelined.

don't be a dope.

[Heavincent]

Here's why Lebron's 2015 Finals wasn't that impressive:

In the 2010 Finals, Kobe averaged 32/6/7 within the triangle... That was good enough to win the series.. Otoh, Lebron's 36/13/9 from the 2015 Finals would NOT have won the 2010 Finals, because the only way Lebron achieved those stats is by playing a highly suboptimal, grade school-level, clearout/playground style that had no chance of beating the 2010 Celtics (just like it had no chance of beating the Warriors)..

Like, Kobe could've averaged 40 ppg in ANY series if he just wanted to accumulate stats and not win.. But Kobe got his 32/6/7 in a very strict, equal-opportunity, WINNING system - that makes his stats more impressive and better than Lebron's losing, playground-style stat accumulation.

:applause:

[3ball]

They were forced to play that way because the 2nd and 3rd best options were sidelined.

don't be a dope.
Regardless of WHY they played such a suboptimal, clearout/playground style - the bottom line is they did - and that's the only reason Lebron was able to put up those stats.. And a lot of guys could put up much BETTER stats than 36 ppg on 39% in such a playground, stat-friendly (but not winning) offense.

[Hey Yo]

"regardless"


:roll:

[3ball]

"regardless"


:roll:
That's right - regardless of WHY the Cavs played such a suboptimal, clearout/playground style - the bottom line is they did - and that's the only reason Lebron was able to put up those stats..

And a lot of guys could put up much BETTER stats than 36 ppg on 39% in such a playground, stat-friendly (but not winning) offense.

[aj1987]

I would take Kobe's 01 finals over Lebron's in 2013

Kobe played pretty bad in game 1, but was really damn good games 2-5, leading the team in scoring for games 2 & 3 with b2b 30+ games, 19/10/9 in game 4 and finished it off with a 26/12/6 game

lebron in 2013 struggled games 1-3 & game 5

if Kobe struggles in games 1-3 the 76ers probably win the series
So, Kobe's game 4 was good, but LeBron struggled in game 1? :oldlol:

Yeah, even with Kobe struggling, the Lakers would've destroyed the Sixers. Shaq was a flat out beast.


That's right - regardless of WHY the Cavs played such a suboptimal, clearout/playground style - the bottom line is they did - and that's the only reason Lebron was able to put up those stats..

And a lot of guys could put up much BETTER stats than 36 ppg on 39% in such a playground, stat-friendly (but not winning) offense.
LeBron has had multiple 30+ scoring series. You do know that, right? 34 PPG against the Celtics, 39 PPG against the Magic, etc..

[ArbitraryWater]

Ranking their Finals

1. LeBron 2012
2. Kobe 2009
3. LeBron 2015
4. Kobe 2002
5. LeBron 2013
6. Kobe 2010
7. Kobe 2001
8. LeBron 2014
9. Kobe 2008
10. LeBron 2007
11. Kobe 2000
12. Kobe 2004
13. LeBron 2011

Absolutely terrible.. find something else to rank.

[Mr. Jabbar]

:oldlol: at using this argument when Kobe was severely outplayed by Shaq in his first 4 Finals

teammates do not "outplay" each other :facepalm unless you mean lebron against wade in 2011....and im a huge lebron admirer

#kang

[Lebron23]

Lebron James.

[Mr. Jabbar]

Lebron James.

ima huge fan of the player you root for :cheers:

[3ball]

:rolleyes

[3ball]

LeBron has had multiple 30+ scoring series. You do know that, right? 34 PPG against the Celtics, 39 PPG against the Magic, etc..


He never got those stats in any series he won at the highest level - obviously, the teams in the Finals are much better than the teams in ECF and 2nd Round, and the level of basketball required to win is much higher as well... :rolleyes:

At the highest level in the Finals, where the highest level of basketball is played, the best stats Lebron is capable of when his team is employing a style capable of winning are 27/10/7 on 46% (his combined stats from 2012 and 2013 Finals, the only Finals he won)... This is statistical fact, based on empirical evidence...

Now when his team is employing a stat-friendly, playground style that CAN'T win, Lebron is capable of 36 ppg on 39%.. Again, this is statistical fact.
.

[warriorfan]

LeBron's 2015 Finals performance is going to go down as the most overrated performance in NBA history. When you look at LeBrons usage and efficiency it really is nothing special. Add to the fact that he lost then it's the definition of empty stats at this point.

Lots of ball domination + inefficiently + losing = empty stats

[aj1987]

He never got those stats in any series he won at the highest level - obviously, the teams in the Finals are much better than the teams in ECF and 2nd Round, and the level of basketball required to win is much higher as well... :rolleyes:

At the highest level in the Finals, where the highest level of basketball is played, the best stats Lebron is capable of when his team is employing a style capable of winning are 27/10/7 on 46% (his combined stats from 2012 and 2013 Finals, the only Finals he won)... This is statistical fact, based on empirical evidence...

Now when his team is employing a stat-friendly, playground style that CAN'T win, Lebron is capable of 36 ppg on 39%.. Again, this is statistical fact.
.
Even more cherrypicking now?

[3ball]

LeBron's 2015 Finals performance is going to go down as the most overrated performance in NBA history. When you look at LeBrons usage and efficiency it really is nothing special. Add to the fact that he lost then it's the definition of empty stats at this point.

Lots of ball domination + inefficiently + losing = empty stats
Exactly, he got 36/13/9 in the 2015 Finals, but for him to get those stats, his team played a ball-dominant, clearout/playground style that had no chance of beating any Finals opponent - for example, Lebron's playground-style 36/13/9 wouldn't have beaten the 2010 Celtics, but Kobe's 32/6/7 did, because it was achieved within a viable, equal-opportunity offense and winning system.

The reality is that a lot of guys could've averaged 36 ppg on 39% if their team wasn't expected to win and they got to employ a stat-friendly, playground style... But stats achieved in a losing system are empty and don't matter - the stats that matter are those achieved while winning, which would be Lebron's 2012 and 2013 Finals - those stats represent the best WINNING STATS he's capable of on the highest level (the Finals), and those stats are 27/10/7 on 46% with below-average clutch and 4th quarter scoring.

[3ball]

Even more cherrypicking now?
Lebron got 36/13/9 in the 2015 Finals, but for him to get those stats, his team played a ball-dominant, clearout/playground style that had no chance of beating any Finals opponent - for example, Lebron's playground-style 36/13/9 wouldn't have beaten the 2010 Celtics, but Kobe's 32/6/7 did, because it was achieved within a viable, equal-opportunity offense and winning system.

The reality is that a lot of guys could've done better than 36 ppg on 39% if their team wasn't expected to win and they got to employ a stat-friendly, playground style... But stats achieved in a losing system are empty and don't matter - the stats that matter are those achieved while winning, which would be Lebron's 2012 and 2013 Finals - those stats represent the best WINNING STATS he's capable of on the highest level (the Finals), and those stats are 27/10/7 on 46% with less clutch and 4th quarter scoring than Kobe.

[aj1987]

Lebron got 36/13/9 in the 2015 Finals, but for him to get those stats, his team played a ball-dominant, clearout/playground style that had no chance of beating any Finals opponent - for example, Lebron's playground-style 36/13/9 wouldn't have beaten the 2010 Celtics, but Kobe's 32/6/7 did, because it was achieved within a viable, equal-opportunity offense and winning system.

The reality is that a lot of guys could've done better than 36 ppg on 39% if their team wasn't expected to win and they got to employ a stat-friendly, playground style... But stats achieved in a losing system are empty and don't matter - the stats that matter are those achieved while winning, which would be Lebron's 2012 and 2013 Finals - those stats represent the best WINNING STATS he's capable of on the highest level (the Finals), and those stats are 27/10/7 on 46% with less clutch and 4th quarter scoring than Kobe.
Kobe beat them because he was on a better team, you delusional ****.

[Lebron23]

Kobe beat them because he was on a better team, you delusional ****.


the guy is mentally retarded. he's always been a closet kobe fan.

[Lebron23]

Exactly, he got 36/13/9 in the 2015 Finals, but for him to get those stats, his team played a ball-dominant, clearout/playground style that had no chance of beating any Finals opponent - for example, Lebron's playground-style 36/13/9 wouldn't have beaten the 2010 Celtics, but Kobe's 32/6/7 did, because it was achieved within a viable, equal-opportunity offense and winning system.

The reality is that a lot of guys could've averaged 36 ppg on 39% if their team wasn't expected to win and they got to employ a stat-friendly, playground style... But stats achieved in a losing system are empty and don't matter - the stats that matter are those achieved while winning, which would be Lebron's 2012 and 2013 Finals - those stats represent the best WINNING STATS he's capable of on the highest level (the Finals), and those stats are 27/10/7 on 46% with below-average clutch and 4th quarter scoring.


Your gimmick is getting old. Kobe is washed up Markmadsen. You are still trying to be a wannabee BruceBlitz.

[3ball]

Kobe beat them because he was on a better team, you delusional ****.
Maybe, but Lebron isn't putting up 36 ppg in the triangle, or ANY equal-opportunity offense (like the Spurs offense).. He only achieved those stats because he played a ball-dominant, stat-friendly, aau/playground style that had no chance of winning..

So don't say Lebron's 36/13/9 in the 2015 Finals was better than Kobe's 32/6/7 in 2010, when Lebron's stats were achieved in system designed to accumulate individual stats but LOSE, while Kobe's stats were achieved in a system designed to provide equal opportunity and WIN.

[warriorfan]

It's ok, when you LeBron guys start learning more about basketball you will start to understand the contextual differences regarding box score statistics.

[aj1987]

Maybe, but Lebron isn't putting up 36 ppg in the triangle, or ANY equal-opportunity offense (like the Spurs offense).. He only achieved those stats because he played a ball-dominant, stat-friendly, aau/playground style that had no chance of winning..

So don't say Lebron's 36/13/9 in the 2015 Finals was better than Kobe's 32/6/7 in 2010, when Lebron's stats were achieved in system designed to accumulate individual stats but LOSE, while Kobe's stats were achieved in a system designed to provide equal opportunity and WIN.
Nobody cares about the stats. If LeBron had Kobe's help, he's winning. Heck, LeBron won 2 games with a garbage ass team.

[AnaheimLakers24]

Big time lesmalldickbitch****** fan but kobe was better :)

[3ball]

Nobody cares about the stats. If LeBron had Kobe's help, he's winning. Heck, LeBron won 2 games with a garbage ass team.
But if he has Kobe's help and/or if he's playing in a more optimal/equal-opportunity offense, he isn't capable of putting up 36 ppg.

The only reason he averaged 36 ppg is because he employed a stat-friendly, playground style... But it started wiith him playing in a horrific conference, which allowed him to make the Finals with part of his dream team injured - his team's injuries gave him carte blanche to accumulate stats via playground style, rather than try to win by playing more equal-opportunity.

Again, there are many players that would've done better then 36 ppg on 39% if given carte blanche to employ a playground style and accumulate stats.
.

[aj1987]

But he isn't putting up 36 ppg if he has Kobe's help and/or if he's playing in a more optimal/equal-opportunity offense.

The only reason he averaged 36 ppg is because he played in a horrific conference with no viable opponents - so he made the Finals with half his dream team injured, which gave him carte blanche to accumulate stats via playground style, rather than try to win by playing more equal-opportunity.

Again, there are many players that would've done better then 36 ppg on 39% if given carte blanche to employ a playground style and accumulate stats
:facepalm :facepalm

There's literally no point in trying to explain anything to you. **** it.

[warriorfan]

there's no point in trying to explain it to YOU

lebron averaged 36 ppg in the Finals because he employed a stat-accumulating, playground style that had no chance of winning - that's the only way he can average 36 ppg.

he isn't capable of putting up 36 ppg unless he employs a losing style that's designed to accumulate stats more than winning - the only times he's ever averaged that much against viable teams are in losses.. :confusedshrug:..

The years he won (2012 and 2013), his stats were nowhere NEAR his 2015 levels.. He's simply not capable of those stats while playing WINNING basketball.. I mean, the guy won the championship while averaging only 25 ppg the entire 2013 playoffs!!!!... It's amazing the stuff this guy gets away with, but hey, anything is possible when you collude/stack your team to the brim

25 ppg playoff runs is not worthy of any sort of Jordan comparisons. Matter of fact give me Tim Duncan's championship runs over LeBron's any day of the week. Tim Duncan was scoring 25 ppg while providing much better defense than LeBron ever had.

[3ball]

:facepalm :facepalm

There's literally no point in trying to explain anything to you. **** it.
The years Lebron won (2012 and 2013), his stats were nowhere NEAR his 2015 Finals level.. He's simply not capable of those stats while playing WINNING basketball.. Heck, he won the championship while averaging only 25 ppg the entire 2013 playoffs!!!!... It's amazing the stuff this guy gets away with - but hey, anything is possible when you collude/stack your team to the brim.

The only way Lebron can average 36 ppg is by employing a ball-dominant, clearout/playground style like he employed in the 2015 Finals, that has no chance to win - the only times he's ever averaged that much are in losses where he did the same thing.. And there are a lot of guys who could average 36 ppg if they employed a losing style designed to accumulate stats more than win.

[Akrazotile]

Lmfao, people think this is really a question?? Smh. Then again, I see people that actually think you judge a finals performance by stats or if the guy's team won or not.

The finals is about ESTABLISHING YOUR DOMINANCE.

Lebron carried a scrub ass team to the finals by himself, and then as soon as he gets there? He immediately walks up to the nearest camera, whips out his johnson, and makes everyone's eyes buldge in disbelief at its sheer grandeur and eminence.

Meanwhile Kobe gets punked regularly by Chris Childs and Raja Bell. I think it's pretty safe to assume theres not a lot of dominance going on in and around his pelvic region.


It is what it is.

[KG215]

1. 2008 Finals: 25.7/4.7/5.0/2.7/.2 , shooting 41%

this is ... "good" ... its not great. but if you consider its a guy shooting mostly long jumpers and getting to the line to make up for the fg%. its more than good.

So when Kobe averages 26-5-5 on 41% shooting in a Finals series you have no trouble explaining away his poor efficiency with excuses and whatnot.

But LeBron averages 36-13-9 on 40% shooting and it's a bad Finals? Because if all you're going to do is look at raw numbers and FG% an ignore all context, LeBron's 2015 Finals looks much better than Kobe's 2008 Finals on paper.

[MEB2kDeez]

Lebron has the stats, Kobe has the wins.

Trick question but 5/7 speaks for itself in the Finals. Keyword finals.

[Quickening]

Lebron has the stats, Kobe has the wins.

Trick question but 5/7 speaks for itself in the Finals. Keyword finals.

2/7 on fmvps also speaks for itself, 2/5 in wins.. We are comparing individual players, not teams. Kobe has been on the better teams throughout his career. But Lebron has been the best player. Supported by stats, eye test and fmvps

[KembaWalker]

2/7 on fmvps also speaks for itself, 2/5 in wins.. We are comparing individual players, not teams. Kobe has been on the better teams throughout his career. But Lebron has been the best player. Supported by stats, eye test and fmvps

They have the same amount :biggums:

[Quickening]

They have the same amount :biggums:

Yes from 2 championships... he has to be the best player on his team or they aren't winning a chip. Kobe had the luxury of riding Shaq for 3.

[MEB2kDeez]

2/7 on fmvps also speaks for itself, 2/5 in wins.. We are comparing individual players, not teams. Kobe has been on the better teams throughout his career. But Lebron has been the best player. Supported by stats, eye test and fmvps
I consider winning the best part of performing since it is.

Only in basketball people it seems people disregard championships lol

[Quickening]

I consider winning the best part of performing since it is.

Only in basketball people it seems people disregard championships lol

Actually, it is only in basketball (mainly this forum) that people put so much emphasis on team accomplishments when talking about individual players.

Everything says player A is better than B... bu..but player B won 2 more championships playing with great players therefore he must be better. dat ish logic :lol :roll:

[MEB2kDeez]

Actually, it is only in basketball (mainly this forum) that people put so much emphasis on team accomplishments when talking about individual players.

Everything says player A is better than B... bu..but player B won 2 more championships playing with great players therefore he must be better. dat ish logic :lol :roll:
I said Lebron had the better stats, but I'd take winning. No need to get sore because I didn't choose Lebron lol.

[KembaWalker]

Yes from 2 championships... he has to be the best player on his team or they aren't winning a chip. Kobe had the luxury of riding Shaq for 3.

You stated LeBron was better based of FMVP but how is that the case when they both have the same amount

[Papaya Petee]

None super impressive, but Kobe in 2002 was his best finals. Super efficient (wow) and elite defensively.

Not to mention the Lakers obliterated their opponent, if neccessary Kobe could of averaged 30/6/6 in that series.

All his other series aside from 09.... ehhh....

[SouBeachTalents]

Absolutely terrible.. find something else to rank.

Let's see your ranking, I'm sure you can find time in your busy schedule of 36 posts per day

[Quickening]

You stated LeBron was better based of FMVP but how is that the case when they both have the same amount

Because Kobe record of fmvps to championships supports the idea that he was a on a more stacked team, and that he didn't need to be great in finals to win.

Its not that difficult to comprehend you retard.

[tmacattack33]

Wtf is this?

Go back to Kobe vs Wade in the Finals.

Lebron blows Kobe out the gate with this sh*t. Kobe's detrimental-to-his-team 2004 Finals cancels out Lebron's 2011 Finals where he was too passive. In basically every other Finals, Lebron wins.

[pauk]

welp

2 for 6

vs

5 for 7



so...












http://media.giphy.com/media/4bA1znk868IE/giphy.gif


welp

5 for 7

vs

6 for 6 (pippen)

vs

8 for 8 (havlicek)



so...












http://media.giphy.com/media/4bA1znk868IE/giphy.gif

[Cold soul]

Kobe

[Rocketswin2013]

Kobe's stats were achieved within a winning system, which is harder to do than Lebron's clearout, playground-style stat accumulation.
.
Cavs in the ECF: 110.6 ORTG

Lakers in the Finals: 101.2 ORTG

And that's with the Cavs offense breaking down and losing leads EVERY time LeBron left the court.

Too bad he didn't have a hot Derek Fisher, peak Gasol,and an active Bynum to shut down Dwight Howard.

[crisoner]

Kobe....should not even be a question

[riseagainst]

Kobe's stats were achieved within a winning system, which is harder to do than Lebron's clearout, playground-style stat accumulation.
.

this. People get too hung up on stats. Stats are individual glories, but winning is the ultimate glory.

[HOoopCityJones]

Lebron has prettier numbers but less results. So Kobe.

[Optimus Prime]

:kobe:

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/z%20Funny%20NBA%20Photos/Funny%20NBA%20Record/Lebron%20James/aka%20big%20choker/lebron-james-2011-nba-final-4q.jpg~original

:durantunimpressed:

[sd3035]

Winning > Statpadding


This one is pretty obvious


Kobe is a winner, Lebald is a loser

[GoatBoy]

All Lebald stans have to throw is their empty stats...

5/7 > 2/6 easily answers the question to this thread

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Same situation as with Wade vs Kobe for me. LeBron's 2012 > anything of Kobe's but Kobe > LeBron overall.

[Optimus Prime]

"Greatest Finals Performer of All Time"

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2012/1001/nba_g_james_gb2_576.jpg

http://cdn.slamonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/jason_terry_lebron_james.jpg

[ArbitraryWater]

LeBron and this is obviously isn't quite close.. upon having a much greater all around game, his career low in finals shooting is just about Kobe's career (outside of Bron 2007). He's continiously shot in the low 40's against eastern defenses/in the finals, and been the worst finals performer out of any top 10 player or top 15 player thats been to quite a few finals.

[aj1987]

"Greatest Finals Performer of All Time"

Anyone who says that should be neutered.

[TheMarkMadsen]

So, Kobe's game 4 was good, but LeBron struggled in game 1? :oldlol:

Yeah, even with Kobe struggling, the Lakers would've destroyed the Sixers. Shaq was a flat out beast.


LeBron has had multiple 30+ scoring series. You do know that, right? 34 PPG against the Celtics, 39 PPG against the Magic, etc..


ummmm yeah :confusedshrug:

you already exposed yourself yesterday and admitted that you weren't watching basketball before 03, so you should probrably stop talking about this stuff since you weren't watching and are only going off of box scores
:confusedshrug:


Yeah, even with Kobe struggling, the Lakers would've destroyed the Sixers. Shaq was a flat out beast.

again you continue to expose yourself.. the only game Kobe struggled in all playoffs is the game the Lakers lost against the 76ers.. shows how important he was..

[GimmeThat]

the 4/1 performance was somewhat negated by the 4/3 performance for Kobe

Bron hasn't 4/0 someone.
4/2s are nice. but even two 4/1 performances might put him above Kobe

under my own 'performer' criteria

[Wade's Rings]

not sure why op decided to make another thread comparing somebody to Kobe in the finals, wrong thread but it was easy to confuse the two

Because I believe most people consider Wade a better Finals Performer than Kobe or Bron but Kobe vs Bron seemed better.


Wtf is this?

Go back to Kobe vs Wade in the Finals.

Lebron blows Kobe out the gate with this sh*t. Kobe's detrimental-to-his-team 2004 Finals cancels out Lebron's 2011 Finals where he was too passive. In basically every other Finals, Lebron wins.

How so? Lebron's had the 2007 Stinker as well in case you forgot.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Because I believe most people consider Wade a better Finals Performer than Kobe or Bron but Kobe vs Bron seemed better.



How so? Lebron's had the 2007 Stinker as well in case you forgot.

except they don't as you can see by your thread Kobe's overall body of work is way more impressive that Wade's

[Wade's Rings]

except they don't as you can see by your thread Kobe's overall body of work is way more impressive that Wade's

I made another thread asking about the 5 GOAT Finals Performers and some people had Wade on their list or said Wade is a better Finals Performer.


It doesn't matter if Wade would have went off last year. The Spurs would have still won. They were too hot and too good defensively. The team was just exhausted.

Anyway,

Jordan
Shaq
Duncan
Hakeem
Wade


LeBron, Kobe, and Wilt don't belong on these lists. D-Wade has a better case than those guys.


I didn't argue they were. That's why I ranked all those guys ahead of them. And for that very reason.

Wade
Great Finals: 2006
Good Finals: 2011, 2012
Decent Finals: 2013
Bad Finals: 2014

Dwyane has been the most consistent Finals performer out of all of them actually with only one real stinker and it came when he was very clearly injured.

LeBron
Great Finals: 2012
Good Finals: 2013, 2015
Decent Finals: 2014
Bad Finals: 2007, 2011

Kobe
Great Finals: 2009
Good Finals: 2002
Decent Finals: 2001, 2010
Bad Finals: 2000, 2004, 2008

None of them had legendary finals, Wade was closest but it's dampened by the excessive amount of suspect officiating.

Let's say for comparison

Jordan
Legendary Finals: 1991, 1992, 1993
Great Finals: 1997
Good Finals: 1998
Bad Finals: 1996


No order

Jordan
Shaq
Duncan
Hakeem
Wade

BTW Wade's Rings and WayofWade aren't the same person.

[houston]

Kobe of course

[Lebron23]

Kobe of course


When did he became a better performer?? Kobe's Stats in the NBA Finals is 25 ppg on 41 FG%.

His team were able to win an NBA title with this chucker averaging under 16 ppg on 38 FG%.

[GoatBoy]

When did he became a better performer?? Kobe's Stats in the NBA Finals is 25 ppg on 41 FG%.

His team were able to win an NBA title with this chucker averaging under 16 ppg on 38 FG%.

Kobe wins, Lebron doesn't :confusedshrug:

[TheMarkMadsen]

I made another thread asking about the 5 GOAT Finals Performers and some people had Wade on their list or said Wade is a better Finals Performer.









BTW Wade's Rings and WayofWade aren't the same person.

yeah i get it you've been making numerous threads to try and get your boy some love, the opinion of 4 people on the internet doesn't it make it a fact soooo

overall body of work Kobe has most definitely been better in the finals than Wade. Wade was great in 06 even thought that series is kind of meh with the way it was officiated..

it'd be like bringing up Kobe/Shaq's WCF in 02 and basing entire threads around how well they played... nobody would care due to the officiating.. but Wade isn't as polarizing as those two so people don't care about the god awful officiating that series saw..

[Lebron23]

Kobe wins, Lebron doesn't :confusedshrug:


Huh?? They both have the same numbers of Finals MVP.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4101/4920970629_7fb8758dbc_b.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/L06aAIX.jpg

[GoatBoy]

Huh?? They both have the same numbers of Finals MVP.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4101/4920970629_7fb8758dbc_b.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/L06aAIX.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujuQheviI7U

[TheMarkMadsen]

lebron23 melting down..

inb4 some incredibly vile post towards me filled with an incredible amount of grammatical errors..

[Lebron23]

lebron23 melting down..

inb4 some incredibly vile post towards me filled with an incredible amount of grammatical errors..


I still love you brah.

[TheMarkMadsen]

I still love you brah.

aw I can't even be mad at that :cheers: :cheers:

[Wade's Rings]

yeah i get it you've been making numerous threads to try and get your boy some love, the opinion of 4 people on the internet doesn't it make it a fact so :confusedshrug:

I made that Thread back in March and I made it to get the opinions of others :oldlol: Go Quote when I said it was a fact. I said "I BELIEVE". Nikkas starting arguments when they can't even read.


overall body of work Kobe has most definitely been better in the finals than Wade. Wade was great in 06 even thought that series is kind of meh with the way it was officiated.

He was also great in 2011. 2012 was a good Performance, and 2013 solid, and 2014 shit. Outside of 2006 and 2014 he's always raised his Game in the Finals compared to the 1st 3 Rounds.


it'd be like bringing up Kobe/Shaq's WCF in 02 and basing entire threads around how well they played... nobody would care due to the officiating.. but Wade isn't as polarizing as those two so people don't care about the god awful officiating that series saw..

How is that the same thing? Wade played Great in other Finals and like I said above raises his Game in the Finals compared to the previous 3 series outside of 2 Playoff Runs.

Your last sentence is straight up stupid. Plenty of people get on Wade for his Ft's shot. You see it all over ISH. Tpols was saying yesterday '06 Carter could've done what Wade did with that many Free Throws.

Kobe must really not be polarizing since nobody cares about series he shot 96 Ft's in :confusedshrug:

[Lebron23]

aw I can't even be mad at that :cheers: :cheers:


Jeff Hardy is going to be back in the WWE. I love to see Sting beat Seth Rollins. He deserves to be a WWE Champion even though he's gonna a transitional championship.

[Showtime2001]

Huh?? They both have the same numbers of Finals MVP.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4101/4920970629_7fb8758dbc_b.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/L06aAIX.jpghttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3kKxtSQa-4

[KembaWalker]

Because Kobe record of fmvps to championships supports the idea that he was a on a more stacked team, and that he didn't need to be great in finals to win.

Its not that difficult to comprehend you retard.

Oh so the ratio of FMVP to Finals appearances determines who the better playoff performer is, okay

Hakeem>>LeBron as a finals performer then.....retard

[aj1987]

ummmm yeah :confusedshrug:

you already exposed yourself yesterday and admitted that you weren't watching basketball before 03, so you should probrably stop talking about this stuff since you weren't watching and are only going off of box scores
You're a 20 something year old stoner. **** off with that shit, kid. I've probably watched more games in the '02 season than you did in the last two seasons.

Do you want to talk FACTS of hyperbole? 19/10/9 from Kobe is a good game, but 18/18/10 from LeBron isn't? You guys are literal idiots.


again you continue to expose yourself.. the only game Kobe struggled in all playoffs is the game the Lakers lost against the 76ers.. shows how important he was..
Dude needed a 33/16/5/4 player to win the series. Kobe was ass in games 1, 3, and 5. You might want to go back and watch the series. You MIGHT (and you won't since you're a Kobe turd) appreciate Horry more.

Please tell me when the last time LeBron had his teammate averaging ~34/15/3/3 over 3 Finals. Or 30/15/3/3/ over 3 straight PO runs.

The only thing I'm exposing is your literal lack of BB knowledge. Also the FACT that you're a moron.

[TheMarkMadsen]

You're a 20 something year old stoner. **** off with that shit, kid. I've probably watched more games in the '02 season than you did in the last two seasons.

Do you want to talk FACTS of hyperbole? 19/10/9 from Kobe is a good game, but 18/18/10 from LeBron isn't? You guys are literal idiots.


Dude needed a 33/16/5/4 player to win the series. Kobe was ass in games 1, 3, and 5. You might want to go back and watch the series. You MIGHT (and you won't since you're a Kobe turd) appreciate Horry more.

Please tell me when the last time LeBron had his teammate averaging ~34/15/3/3 over 3 Finals. Or 30/15/3/3/ over 3 straight PO runs.

oh here's the drunk and angry poster we've all come to know and enjoy, hurling insults like a moron and having to back track because yesterday he got ****ing owned in embarrassing fashion and had to admit he WASN"T EVEN WATCHING BASKETBALL DURING THE LAKERS
3 PEAT :oldlol:

and what does how well his teammates played have to do with how well they each played individually..

Kobe didn't NEED somebody putting up those numbers to win rings, he proved that in 09 & 10.. where have you been? If you were actually watching basketball back then you would have noticed that the only game the Lakers lost is when Kobe played bad.. that's how important he was to the lakers..

and yes, Kobe played well while putting up 19/10/9.. after leading the team in scoring for b2b games they came back and focused on getting Shaq involved more, and Kobe took a step back and allowed this to happen while staying involved in the game, picking his spots and leading the team in assist..

should he have pulled a Lebron and just look completely uninterested just because the offense isn't soley revolving around him :confusedshrug:

and yeah pretty obvious that lebron struggled in game 1 of the 2013 nba finals.. he was being left completely open the entire time and put up 18 points on 16 shots.. and please spare me with the rebounds.. that part of his game is so overrated.. 18 rebounds and only 2 were offensive lmao



Kobe was ass in games 1, 3, and 5.

Way to expose yourself again..

he was bad in game 1

but in game 3 he led the team in scoring.. that's hardly being "ass"

and in game 5 he put up 26/12/6 and played great in the second half

you really should just stick to the non creative insults and asking for advice on watches.. because your basketball discussion skills have about as much substance as Wade's left knee

[ArbitraryWater]

to expose yourself again..

he was bad in game 1

but in game 3 he led the team in scoring.. that's hardly being "ass"

and in game 5 he put up 26/12/6 and played great in the second half

you really should just stick to the non creative insults and asking for advice on watches.. because your basketball discussion skills have about as much substance as Wade's left knee

all of this is wrong...

he was TERRIBLE in game 1 (7 of 22, I'm loling)
he was poor in game 3 (13 of 30? standarts lowww)
and shot 39% in game 5, while rebounding well... lol @ "great in the second half", well what about the whole game? :oldlol:

[aj1987]

oh here's the drunk and angry poster we've all come to know and enjoy, hurling insults like a moron and having to back track because yesterday he got ****ing owned in embarrassing fashion and had to admit he WASN"T EVEN WATCHING BASKETBALL DURING THE LAKERS
3 PEAT :oldlol:
Is English not your first language or are you already stoned put of your mind?


and what does how well his teammates played have to do with how well they each played individually..
Drawing the defensive attention? There were probably what...like 3-8 players in the HISTORY of the league who commanded the defensive attention that Shaq did?


Kobe didn't NEED somebody putting up those numbers to win rings, he proved that in 09 & 10.. where have you been? If you were actually watching basketball back then you would have noticed that the only game the Lakers lost is when Kobe played bad.. that's how important he was to the lakers..
He was GREAT in '09 and '10. When did I say anything otherwise. Even then, replace Kobe with LeBron in '09 and '10 and he's gonna replicate the results. You might still be in denial, but LeBron is a better player than Kobe. That's basically a fact.


and yes, Kobe played well while putting up 19/10/9.. after leading the team in scoring for b2b games they came back and focused on getting Shaq involved more, and Kobe took a step back and allowed this to happen while staying involved in the game, picking his spots and leading the team in assist..
:biggums: :biggums:

You do know that Shaq scored 34/14/5 in that game, scored 29/13/2/5, and 30/12/3/4, right? Lets not forget about the 29/20/9/1/8. When did anyone on LeBron's team play on that level?


should he have pulled a Lebron and just look completely uninterested just because the offense isn't soley revolving around him :confusedshrug:
Or he should've pulled an '04 Kobe an literally chuck his team out of a title. I ****ing hate LeBron for the '11 Finals, but '04 Kobe is on par.


and yeah pretty obvious that lebron struggled in game 1 of the 2013 nba finals.. he was being left completely open the entire time and put up 18 points on 16 shots.. and please spare me with the rebounds.. that part of his game is so overrated.. 18 rebounds and only 2 were offensive lmao
:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

Yeah, more excuses. **** off, kid. You literally have no arguments. LeBron grabs 18 rebounds and you idiots yell that he's statpadding. LeBron gets 10 assists and you retards act like he's trying to get more assists. When Kobe does it though, you literally suck his dick till it falls off.



Way to expose yourself again..

he was bad in game 1

but in game 3 he led the team in scoring.. that's hardly being "ass"

and in game 5 he put up 26/12/6 and played great in the second half
Oh yeah, I basically forgot that a terrible game for LeBron is a career game for Kobe. Yeah, shouldn't really compare them. A 20/10/7 game is an AMAZING game for Kobe and the similar game would be a a garbage ass game for LeBron.


you really should just stick to the non creative insults and asking for advice on watches.. because your basketball discussion skills have about as much substance as Wade's left knee
Classy AF. Don't expect much else from a retarded Kobe turd though.

[knicksman]

Is English not your first language or are you already stoned put of your mind?


Drawing the defensive attention? There were probably what...like 3-8 players in the HISTORY of the league who commanded the defensive attention that Shaq did?


He was GREAT in '09 and '10. When did I say anything otherwise. Even then, replace Kobe with LeBron in '09 and '10 and he's gonna replicate the results. You might still be in denial, but LeBron is a better player than Kobe. That's basically a fact.


:biggums: :biggums:

You do know that Shaq scored 34/14/5 in that game, scored 29/13/2/5, and 30/12/3/4, right? Lets not forget about the 29/20/9/1/8. When did anyone on LeBron's team play on that level?


Or he should've pulled an '04 Kobe an literally chuck his team out of a title. I ****ing hate LeBron for the '11 Finals, but '04 Kobe is on par.


:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

Yeah, more excuses. **** off, kid. You literally have no arguments. LeBron grabs 18 rebounds and you idiots yell that he's statpadding. LeBron gets 10 assists and you retards act like he's trying to get more assists. When Kobe does it though, you literally suck his dick till it falls off.



Oh yeah, I basically forgot that a terrible game for LeBron is a career game for Kobe. Yeah, shouldn't really compare them. A 20/10/7 game is an AMAZING game for Kobe and the similar game would be a a garbage ass game for LeBron.


Classy AF. Don't expect much else from a retarded Kobe turd though.

Lol. Didnt bran already have better teammates than kobe and only managed same rings?

[sdot_thadon]

Prime Shaq, that is all.

[knicksman]

Kobe is the type of guy that loves challenges while the opposite is for bran aka beta/alpha. So since those eastern teams are really just first round fodders in the west then its not a surprise that kobe doesnt give a damn. But that mentality is what made kobe a winner while bran 2/6.

[SouBeachTalents]

Lol at people giving Kobe the nod as the better Finals performer because of 5/7. The biggest reason he's 5/7 is because Shaq severely outplayed him in their first 3 Finals

2000 Finals
Shaq: 38/17/2 61%
Kobe: 16/5/4 37%

2001 Finals
Shaq: 33/16/5 57%
Kobe: 25/8/6 42%

2002 Finals
Shaq: 36/12/4 60%
Kobe: 27/6/5 51%

3 of the greatest Finals performances of all time. Shaq outscored Kobe by a combined 39 ppg in the Finals during that 3peat. For comparison sake, Kobe outscored Gasol in the Finals by 34 ppg from '08-'10, and LeBron outscored Bosh in the Finals by 41 ppg from '12-'14. So saying 5/7 is a reason Kobe was a greater Finals performer is ridiculous.

In the 2000 Finals alone

Shaq's rpg: 17
Kobe's ppg: 16

Shaq's ppg: 38
Kobe's fg%: 37

[red1]

this one is easy. lebron is the better regular season performer, playoff performer, AND finals performer

[Vaniiiia]

Lol at people giving Kobe the nod as the better Finals performer because of 5/7. The biggest reason he's 5/7 is because Shaq severely outplayed him in their first 3 Finals

2000 Finals
Shaq: 38/17/2 61%
Kobe: 16/5/4 37%

2001 Finals
Shaq: 33/16/5 57%
Kobe: 25/8/6 42%

2002 Finals
Shaq: 36/12/4 60%
Kobe: 27/6/5 51%

3 of the greatest Finals performances of all time. Shaq outscored Kobe by a combined 39 ppg in the Finals during that 3peat. For comparison sake, Kobe outscored Gasol in the Finals by 34 ppg from '08-'10, and LeBron outscored Bosh in the Finals by 41 ppg from '12-'14. So saying 5/7 is a reason Kobe was a greater Finals performer is ridiculous.

In the 2000 Finals alone

Shaq's rpg: 17
Kobe's ppg: 16

Shaq's ppg: 38
Kobe's fg%: 37
E.....ther!

/thread.

LeBron wins again. Superior in every facet of the game than Kobe. Better player, better playoff performer, and easily the better finals performer.

We should be comparing LeBron to MJ, not this chucking cancer Kobe. Literally shot his team out of a couple rings.

[HOoopCityJones]

"27/6/5 51%"

Only Shaq gets this much credit with his second option averaging that

[knicksman]

Lol at people giving Kobe the nod as the better Finals performer because of 5/7. The biggest reason he's 5/7 is because Shaq severely outplayed him in their first 3 Finals

2000 Finals
Shaq: 38/17/2 61%
Kobe: 16/5/4 37%

2001 Finals
Shaq: 33/16/5 57%
Kobe: 25/8/6 42%

2002 Finals
Shaq: 36/12/4 60%
Kobe: 27/6/5 51%

3 of the greatest Finals performances of all time. Shaq outscored Kobe by a combined 39 ppg in the Finals during that 3peat. For comparison sake, Kobe outscored Gasol in the Finals by 34 ppg from '08-'10, and LeBron outscored Bosh in the Finals by 41 ppg from '12-'14. So saying 5/7 is a reason Kobe was a greater Finals performer is ridiculous.

In the 2000 Finals alone

Shaq's rpg: 17
Kobe's ppg: 16

Shaq's ppg: 38
Kobe's fg%: 37

Lol at people thinking that those eastern teams are contenders. Shaq is like bran. Great against weaklings but nowhere to be found against the best teams. So they need a kobe/wade to win rings for them

[sdot_thadon]

"27/6/5 51%"

Only Shaq gets this much credit with his second option averaging that
To be fair his 2nd option can get that partially because of the work he was putting in at the time. Shaq was doin work.

[Wade's Rings]

Lol at people thinking that those eastern teams are contenders. Shaq is like bran. Great against weaklings but nowhere to be found against the best teams. So they need a kobe/wade to win rings for them

He played Great against the west as well :confusedshrug:

[Hey Yo]

Kobe is the type of guy that loves challenges while the opposite is for bran aka beta/alpha. So since those eastern teams are really just first round fodders in the west then its not a surprise that kobe doesnt give a damn. But that mentality is what made kobe a winner while bran 2/6.
Is that why Kobe would play for no team other than the Lakers and LeBron had no problem playing for the garbage Cavs?

Kobe demanded a trade after only playing 3yrs with avg. teammates and LeBron re-signed and played with the revolving door of teammates for his first 7yrs.

[knicksman]

He played Great against the west as well :confusedshrug:

RS isnt the same as playoffs either:confusedshrug:

[TheMarkMadsen]

Is English not your first language or are you already stoned put of your mind?


Drawing the defensive attention? There were probably what...like 3-8 players in the HISTORY of the league who commanded the defensive attention that Shaq did?


He was GREAT in '09 and '10. When did I say anything otherwise. Even then, replace Kobe with LeBron in '09 and '10 and he's gonna replicate the results. You might still be in denial, but LeBron is a better player than Kobe. That's basically a fact.


:biggums: :biggums:

You do know that Shaq scored 34/14/5 in that game, scored 29/13/2/5, and 30/12/3/4, right? Lets not forget about the 29/20/9/1/8. When did anyone on LeBron's team play on that level?


Or he should've pulled an '04 Kobe an literally chuck his team out of a title. I ****ing hate LeBron for the '11 Finals, but '04 Kobe is on par.


:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

Yeah, more excuses. **** off, kid. You literally have no arguments. LeBron grabs 18 rebounds and you idiots yell that he's statpadding. LeBron gets 10 assists and you retards act like he's trying to get more assists. When Kobe does it though, you literally suck his dick till it falls off.



Oh yeah, I basically forgot that a terrible game for LeBron is a career game for Kobe. Yeah, shouldn't really compare them. A 20/10/7 game is an AMAZING game for Kobe and the similar game would be a a garbage ass game for LeBron.


Classy AF. Don't expect much else from a retarded Kobe turd though.

all of this and you didn't say a single thing, just a bunch of cursing, ad hominems, hypothetical scenarios and emojis..

classic aj187

[knicksman]

Is that why Kobe would play for no team other than the Lakers and LeBron had no problem playing for the garbage Cavs?

Kobe demanded a trade after only playing 3yrs with avg. teammates and LeBron re-signed and played with the revolving door of teammates for his first 7yrs.

Lakers hasnt won since magic.

Kobe demanded a trade coz lakers and kobe werent on the same page. He was on his prime yet lakers want to rebuild. If kobe wanted it easy, he would never gotten rid of shaq, he would rather score in 1st qrtrs/fastbreaks than clutch, he would rather win mvps than rings.

[Round Mound]

Lebron is better than Kobe at everything but far range shooting.

[Akrazotile]

Lebron is better than Kobe at everything but far range shooting.


I think you mean "long twos" (the most useless shot in the game)

Their career 3pt % in the reg season and playoffs is nearly identical (Bron slightly higher)

[knicksman]

I think you mean "long twos" (the most useless shot in the game)

Their career 3pt % in the reg season and playoffs is nearly identical (Bron slightly higher)

Lololol retard alert. Im not surprised its a bran stan. Jordan and kobe wouldnt be 6/6 and 5/7 if not for those long 2s

[Sakkreth]

Lololol retard alert. Im not surprised its a bran stan. Jordan and kobe wouldnt be 6/6 and 5/7 if not for those long 2s

That's what you think, but actually they wouldn't be that if it wasn't for stacked teams they had. I mean Kobe wasn't even the best player in most of his finals.

[knicksman]

:applause:
That's what you think, but actually they wouldn't be that if it wasn't for stacked teams they had. I mean Kobe wasn't even the best player in most of his finals.
:oldlol:

[Quickening]

That's what you think, but actually they wouldn't be that if it wasn't for stacked teams they had. I mean Kobe wasn't even the best player in most of his finals.

That why using the ring count with Kobe just doesn't work when comparing to all time greats, if you clearly are a second option on a championship winning team, it just doesn't mean as much sorry :confusedshrug:

[Wade's Rings]

RS isnt the same as playoffs either:confusedshrug:

I was talking about the Playoffs :confusedshrug:

[knicksman]

I was talking about the Playoffs :confusedshrug:

Umm.. isnt he 2/6 against the west?

[3ball]

The last team to make the Finals without two All NBA players was... well that never happened.


Horseshit - in 1991, Pippen wasn't all-nba or even an all-star.

1991 was one of only 3 times that anyone WON a ring with only 1 all-star on the team.. Plenty of guys have just MADE the Finals with only 1 all-star.. :rolleyes:

You guys are really delusional - just making up stuff - any lie is fine for you guys if it makes Lebron look better.. :rolleyes:
.

[3ball]

:facepalm

[3ball]

The last player that played in 5 straight NBA Finals was Bill Russell and that streak started when there were 9 teams in the NBA.


Lebron is 2/6 in the Finals - he beat the best Western Conference team only twice, so if he was in the Western Conference, he would've made only 2 Finals in his entire career..

That's why merely MAKING the Finals is not an accomplishment that all-time greats ever gets credit for - everyone knows that the Finals loser would never have made the Finals in the other conference.

This idea that merely making the Finals is an accomplishment that compares to winning the Finals is a new idea purported by new fans only... 15 years from now, those same new fans will understand how dumb they are when the new fans 15 years from now start saying that making the conference finals is equal to making the Finals.. :rolleyes:





No player has ever led both teams in Asst and Rebounds before LeBron did it this year.


If Lebron shot 51% on his repeated clearouts in the Finals instead of 39.8%, Cleveland could've easily won the series with Lebron averaging less rebounds and assists.

That's why I always laugh when people use the argument "Lebron leads his team in pts, rebs, assists...".. They fail to realize that MJ's 8-point and 6-point scoring advantage in the Finals and playoffs respectively (plus greater clutch), are worth much more than a couple extra defensive rebounds..

So who cares whether Lebron leads his team in pts, rebs, and assists - MJ leads his team in pts and assists, and he's SO far ahead of Lebron scoring-wise and clutch, it obviously more than offsets his 2-defensive rebound deficit.. It's pretty intuitive and basic common knowledge that 6-8 more ppg is worth more than a couple defensive rebounds, particularly for the #1 option.
.

[Smoke117]

all of this and you didn't say a single thing, just a bunch of cursing, ad hominems, hypothetical scenarios and emojis..

classic aj187


You critiquing other posters? You got a lot of balls, no? What have you ever posted that is worthy of merit? What have you ever posted that anyone can remember that kobe wasn't involved? You know more about kobe's life than you do about actual basketball. You're a joke, bro. Not a funny one either, but a cringe worthy one.

[TheMarkMadsen]

You critiquing other posters? You got a lot of balls, no? What have you ever posted that is worthy of merit? What have you ever posted that anyone can remember that kobe wasn't involved? You know more about kobe's life than you do about actual basketball. You're a joke, bro. Not a funny one either, but a cringe worthy one.

ok this is getting creepy

the last few post i've made you've either quoted or responded to within the last 10 minutes..

and then as i'm perusing another thread you were randomly bringing me up

:oldlol: holy shit dude how badly do you want my attention, lay off the bottle and stop hitting the dog you angry ass weirdo :oldlol:

[ArbitraryWater]

Madsen is a stoner

type of guy hard to be around

[Smoke117]

Madsen is a stoner

type of guy hard to be around


Nay. I'm a stoner. He's just a prick.

[ArbitraryWater]

Nay. I'm a stoner. He's just a prick.

this more accurate

[TheMarkMadsen]

Madsen is a stoner

type of guy hard to be around

you post 36 times per day on a message board

type of guy that nobody is around

[TheMarkMadsen]

Nay. I'm a stoner. He's just a prick.

except none of your post have any substance, when you talk negatively of kobe and try to convince people he isn't as good as they think you don't bring anything to the table, you speak through your opinion and give nothing to back it up..

when i talk negatively of lebron, i have shit to back it up, whether you agree with my opinion or not I give a reason for the opinion I have.. you're too worried about what the consensus between 40 people on a message board might be to where you just come out and spew anger everywhere..

for instance you brought up d rating in a thread as a reason why Kobe "sucks" on defense and why Pau is better, i told you that d rating isn't meant for individual players... gave an example of how Dirk and Scottie's d rating is extremely similar..

yet instead of responding to that and actually discussing ball, you'd rather sit here and talk shit about people you've never met, and how Kobe fans are going to cause the end of the world..

[ArbitraryWater]

except none of your post have any substance, when you talk negatively of kobe and try to convince people he isn't as good as they think you don't bring anything to the table, you speak through your opinion and give nothing to back it up..

when i talk negatively of lebron, i have shit to back it up, whether you agree with my opinion or not I give a reason for the opinion I have.. you're too worried about what the consensus between 40 people on a message board might be to where you just come out and spew anger everywhere..

for instance you brought up d rating in a thread as a reason why Kobe "sucks" on defense and why Pau is better, i told you that d rating isn't meant for individual players... gave an example of how Dirk and Scottie's d rating is extremely similar..

yet instead of responding to that and actually discussing ball, you'd rather sit here and talk shit about people you've never met, and how Kobe fans are going to cause the end of the world..

:wtf:

do you really believe that?

Like really?

Whats even more frightening is your deep belief behind your credibility... "i have shit to back up".. yeah, while being a straw man, selective and cherry picking just about whatever suits you most.

You think anybody outside Kobe stans respects you here?

[Smoke117]

you post 36 times per day on a message board

type of guy that nobody is around

Really? AW's post at least actually have substance where it pertains to the nba and basketball. You are trying to attack him by saying he post too much about basketball on a basketball board? You have only made yourself a bigger clown and prick with this assertion.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Really? AW's post at least actually have substance where it pertains to the nba and basketball. You are trying to attack him by saying he post too much about basketball on a basketball board? You have only made yourself a bigger clown and prick with this assertion.

he came at me first

i fired back

[TheMarkMadsen]

:wtf:

do you really believe that?

Like really?

Whats even more frightening is your deep belief behind your credibility... "i have shit to back up".. yeah, while being a straw man, selective and cherry picking just about whatever suits you most.

You think anybody outside Kobe stans respects you here?


yall sit here and act like i'm being the big bad grinch, last time i checked there are 2 of you ganging up on me and following me around in every thread

[ArbitraryWater]

something happy: https://twitter.com/BBAnimals/status/645039744192278528

[kennethgriffin]

better finals performer?

Bill Russell or Wilt Chamberlain


one guy is 11 for 12

the other guy is 2 for 6 with slightly better stats but chokes under pressure



reminds me of this comparison

[Cold soul]

you post 36 times per day on a message board

type of guy that nobody is around

Lol we call those basement dwellers. Man, 36 post a day on average is so sad on so many levels. :roll:

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Lol we call those basement dwellers. Man, 36 post a day on average is so sad on so many levels. :roll:

Y'all don't understand the BTE.

[warriorfan]

Y'all don't understand the BTE.

Ya you guys are all virgins we understand you just fine.

[Wade's Rings]

Umm.. isnt he 2/6 against the west?

I was talking about Shaq.

[Smoke117]

http://www.monologuedb.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/daniel-day-lewis-bill-the-butcher-cutting-gangs-of-new-york.jpg

[NuggetsFan]

LeBron has the higher peak in the finals. Also has the worst performance. Atleast Kobe went out gunning. LeBron just rolled over against the Mavs. I'd probably take LeBron when all is said and done. Kobe won more, but LeBron would have been fine with Shaq.

[Bankaii]

Despite the fact that Lebron has better stats, advanced stats, eye test, while playing against better teams... Kobe has 3 more sidekick rings so I'll choose him.

[Bankaii]

LeBron has the higher peak in the finals. Also has the worst performance. Atleast Kobe went out gunning. LeBron just rolled over against the Mavs. I'd probably take LeBron when all is said and done. Kobe won more, but LeBron would have been fine with Shaq.
Shooting your team out of contention when there is a player better than you on the same team capable of winning is no better than cowarding in a corner.
Net zero > net negative

[kennethgriffin]

Despite the fact that Lebron has better stats, advanced stats, eye test, while playing against better teams... Kobe has 3 more sidekick rings so I'll choose him.


you know those duncan/parker teams lebron lost to twice out of 3 times...


they werent a problem for kobe. just an FYI

:lol


and lebron is the most non aesthetically pleasing player of all time. how can he pass an eye test.

[Bankaii]

you know those duncan/parker teams lebron lost to twice out of 3 times...


they werent a problem for kobe. just an FYI

:lol


and lebron is the most non aesthetically pleasing player of all time. how can he pass an eye test.
It was just Kobe beating the Spurs all by himself right? I'm not saying he doesn't do well against him but stfu with your agenda.
Lebron destroyed the Thunder that destroyed Kobe. Different teams have different game plans.
And if your enjoy watching Kobe chuck up the most fields goals of all time with 5 hands in his face then continue.

[TheMarkMadsen]

It was just Kobe beating the Spurs all by himself right? I'm not saying he doesn't do well against him but stfu with your agenda.
Lebron destroyed the Thunder that destroyed Kobe. Different teams have different game plans.
And if your enjoy watching Kobe chuck up the most fields goals of all time with 5 hands in his face then continue.

basically was in 08..

and in 01 and 02 Kobe led the Lakers in scoring and assist in the playoffs against the spurs..

in 2004 Kobe also led the team in scoring and assist while leading them to a victory over the Spurs

so in 01, 02, 04 & 08 Kobe took a huge dump on the Spurs

[sportjames23]

Someone should post some comparison vids of Kobe and Lebron vs the Spurs in the playoffs.

[Megabox!]

Someone should post some comparison vids of Kobe and Lebron vs the Spurs in the playoffs.
You do realize the Spurs that LBJ went up against is a lot better than the Spurs teams Kobe went up against right?

[sportjames23]

You do realize the Spurs that LBJ went up against is a lot better than the Spurs teams Kobe went up against right?


So the 2014 Spurs are the GOAT Spurs team?

[Bankaii]

basically was in 08..

and in 01 and 02 Kobe led the Lakers in scoring and assist in the playoffs against the spurs..

in 2004 Kobe also led the team in scoring and assist while leading them to a victory over the Spurs

so in 01, 02, 04 & 08 Kobe took a huge dump on the Spurs
If you would've read literally the next sentence of post I said Kobe does well again the Spurs. But let's look into something:
2001: He was a beast.
2002: 26 points on 24 FGA
2004: 26 points on 22 FGA
2008: 29 points on 24 FGA and took more total attempts than his 2nd and 3rd options combined.
Kobe took a shit ton of shots to score well against the Spurs. And many of the time could have had more help if he dispersed the shot attempts.
You also conveniently leave out how good the Lakers defense was. Was Kobe also the reason that Timmy and Tony Parler struggled some series?
Before you get you Mamba thong in a wad I'm not saying Kobe didn't beast, but Kobe fans make it sound like he was 2000 Shaq.

[Bankaii]

So the 2014 Spurs are the GOAT Spurs team?
Pretty much.

[TheMarkMadsen]

If you would've read literally the next sentence of post I said Kobe does well again the Spurs. But let's look into something:
2001: He was a beast.
2002: 26 points on 24 FGA
2004: 26 points on 22 FGA
2008: 29 points on 24 FGA and took more total attempts than his 2nd and 3rd options combined.
Kobe took a shit ton of shots to score well against the Spurs. And many of the time could have had more help if he dispersed the shot attempts.
You also conveniently leave out how good the Lakers defense was. Was Kobe also the reason that Timmy and Tony Parler struggled some series?
Before you get you Mamba thong in a wad I'm not saying Kobe didn't beast, but Kobe fans make it sound like he was 2000 Shaq.

so you're just going to ignore that he was the leading assist man in all of those series? Who cares what his FGA were when he's leading the team in scoring/assist AND winning games.. FGA would be valid if they were losing.. but they weren't..

and that 08 series was beautiful, nobody who watched that would seriously bring up FGA to down play it..

and no, nobody is making him out to be 2000 Shaq, yall just freak out the moment somebody tries to give Kobe his due.. he was the leader for every series against the Spurs in 01, 02, 04, & 08,, he took it upon himself to lead the team in scoring and assist, which he did, and normally eliminated them within 5 games..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWPWvJ2wr44

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfDCuid_U3I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aXVxcLm2qQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qawbo3NOmR4

[Showtime2001]

You do realize the Spurs that LBJ went up against is a lot better than the Spurs teams Kobe went up against right?
Or maybe its just because he performed better against them than LeBron did?

[Bankaii]

so you're just going to ignore that he was the leading assist man in all of those series? Who cares what his FGA were when he's leading the team in scoring/assist AND winning games.. FGA would be valid if they were losing.. but they weren't..

and that 08 series was beautiful, nobody who watched that would seriously bring up FGA to down play it..

and no, nobody is making him out to be 2000 Shaq, yall just freak out the moment somebody tries to give Kobe his due.. he was the leader for every series against the Spurs in 01, 02, 04, & 08,, he took it upon himself to lead the team in scoring and assist, which he did, and normally eliminated them within 5 games..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWPWvJ2wr44

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfDCuid_U3I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aXVxcLm2qQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qawbo3NOmR4
So now FGA are irrelevant if you're leading the team in scoring or assists? That seems to be quite the opposite of your opinion on another certain player's playoff performances but I digress.
And I gave Libe credit in every post I've made in this thread, but the thing is that it's not hard to lead in scoring when you're taking 20+ more shots than than any other teammate or taking more shots than the 2nd and 3rd best guys combined. The lakers were winning because along with Kobe's great performances he had a great team around him that also provided solid defense.

[TheMarkMadsen]

So now FGA are irrelevant if you're leading the team in scoring or assists? That seems to be quite the opposite of your opinion on another certain player's playoff performances but I digress.
And I gave Libe credit in every post I've made in this thread, but the thing is that it's not hard to lead in scoring when you're taking 20+ more shots than than any other teammate or taking more shots than the 2nd and 3rd best guys combined. The lakers were winning because along with Kobe's great performances he had a great team around him that also provided solid defense.

if you're easily winning series while leading the team in FG and assist then yes FGA is a dumb thing to bring up to down play his impact..


but the thing is that it's not hard to lead in scoring when you're taking 20+ more shots than than any other teammate

what a wild exaggeration ffs :facepalm

01 Kobe = 26 fga per game
Shaq = 21 FGA per game

02 = Kobe: 24 FGA
Shaq: 19FGA

04 = Kobe: 21 FGA
Shaq: 14 FGA

08 = Kobe: 24 FGA
Pau: 13 FGA

look at those 20+ differential in FGA :rolleyes:

you are nitpicking like crazy..


The lakers were winning because along with Kobe's great performances he had a great team around him that also provided solid defense.

as did every other great player in nba history who had playoff success, what's your point..

you can sit here and harp on FGA all you want, fact is Kobe has a well known history of killing the Spurs, Pop said so himself..

nitpicking FGA on a guy who was leading the team in scoring and assist while winning is bottom of the barrel basketball talk, it'd be one thing to bring up FGA if he was losing like in 04, but when the team is thriving under him, then there is no problem..

[G0ATbe]

5/7

1.5*/6


Hmmm...tough choice here.

[Bankaii]

if you're easily winning series while leading the team in FG and assist then yes FGA is a dumb thing to bring up to down play his impact..



what a wild exaggeration ffs :facepalm

01 Kobe = 26 fga per game
Shaq = 21 FGA per game

02 = Kobe: 24 FGA
Shaq: 19FGA

04 = Kobe: 21 FGA
Shaq: 14 FGA

08 = Kobe: 24 FGA
Pau: 13 FGA

look at those 20+ differential in FGA :rolleyes:

you are nitpicking like crazy..



as did every other great player in nba history who had playoff success, what's your point..

you can sit here and harp on FGA all you want, fact is Kobe has a well known history of killing the Spurs, Pop said so himself..

nitpicking FGA on a guy who was leading the team in scoring and assist while winning is bottom of the barrel basketball talk, it'd be one thing to bring up FGA if he was losing like in 04, but when the team is thriving under him, then there is no problem..
So FGA only matter when it's relevant for you, got it.

And I know I didn't make it too clear, but it doesn't take a lot of common sense to realize that I was talking about total FGA, not per game.

The team was thriving with or without him. You act like Shaq wasn't the MDE during that period. Kobe simply took more shots. Aside from 2001, Shaq would have put up more points on better effeciency given the same amount of FGA Kobe had.

And I keep reiterating, his won because he had a solid team around him. It's no different than 06. The only difference is he had a team. So to say FGA should be counted because he won is dumb. There are a ton of performances that get downplayed because of effeciency, why is Kibe somehow immune to this when he is one of the main culprits?

[aj1987]

all of this and you didn't say a single thing, just a bunch of cursing, ad hominems, hypothetical scenarios and emojis..

classic aj187
Dat deflection though. Just like your idol did, with a multi-million dollar ring in '04. Except you do it on a message board defending his honor.

Classic TheMarkMadsen.

[TheMarkMadsen]

So FGA only matter when it's relevant for you, got it.

And I know I didn't make it too clear, but it doesn't take a lot of common sense to realize that I was talking about total FGA, not per game.

The team was thriving with or without him. You act like Shaq wasn't the MDE during that period. Kobe simply took more shots. Aside from 2001, Shaq would have put up more points on better effeciency given the same amount of FGA Kobe had.

And I keep reiterating, his won because he had a solid team around him. It's no different than 06. The only difference is he had a team. So to say FGA should be counted because he won is dumb. There are a ton of performances that get downplayed because of effeciency, why is Kibe somehow immune to this when he is one of the main culprits?

:facepalm :facepalm

[Smoke117]

...sigh, marky. You clearly have some kind of love and knowledge of basketball...why do you spend all of that on one player? I think a lot of my favorite players throughout the years are underrated...but I'm not here constantly making that point known. This is a basketball board...not a kobe bryant board. It's not healthy to be obsessed with another man like you stans are unless you are a woman...or homosexual. Which is fine, you put whatever you want in your mouth or in your other orifices...but stop pretending that isn't what it's about.

[34-24 Footwork]

...sigh, marky. You clearly have some kind of love and knowledge of basketball...why do you spend all of that on one player? I think a lot of my favorite players throughout the years are underrated...but I'm not here constantly making that point known. This is a basketball board...not a kobe bryant board. It's not healthy to be obsessed with another man like you stans are unless you are a woman...or homosexual. Which is fine, you put whatever you want in your mouth or in your other orifices...but stop pretending that isn't what it's about.

There's definitely been a special hatred that kobe has gotten right after Shaq left the team.

People went from "Kobe can't win without the most dominant player ever".

To

"Kobe can't win without a dominant big man".

Idiots (presumably like you) who do this are putting Shaq and Gasol in the same category...disrespects Shaq more than anyone.

Ironically, they've both had the most success with Kobe Bryant.

[Smoke117]

There's definitely been a special hatred that kobe has gotten right after Shaq left the team.

People went from "Kobe can't win without the most dominant player ever".

To

"Kobe can't win without a dominant big man".

Idiots (presumably like you) who do this are putting Shaq and Gasol in the same category...disrespects Shaq more than anyone.

Ironically, they've both had the most success with Kobe Bryant.

You make me chuckle. I could bury you, but why bother. I'm just not in the mood. The "they've both had the most success with kobe bryant" definitely made me chuckle...because it was kobe and not the fact that the in general the 90s stars were fading away that allowed shaq to be so dominant. Kobe could have been replaced by Ray, Vince, or Tmac and they would have threepeated or actually won more...because those other players don't let their ego's run their lives and would actually care about the team before theri own ego. Kobe bryant is one of the most selfish players of all time...that's just a fact. Not even the most adamant kobe stan can say that kobe put his team before his own ego...

[34-24 Footwork]

You make me chuckle. I could bury you, but why bother. I'm just not in the mood. The "they've both had the most success with kobe bryant" definitely made me chuckle...because it was kobe and not the fact that the in general the 90s stars were fading away that allowed shaq to be so dominant. Kobe could have been replaced by Ray, Vince, or Tmac and they would have threepeated or actually won more...because those other players don't let their ego's run their lives and would actually care about the team before theri own ego. Kobe bryant is one of the most selfish players of all time...that's just a fact. Not even the most adamant kobe stan can say that kobe put his team before his own ego...

Dude has played with Penny, Nash, Wade, Eddie Jones, Lebron, Rondo and etc.

But the fact still remains, he's had the most success alongside kobe. How does that make you feel, little boy?

[Bankaii]

Dude has played with Penny, Nash, Wade, Eddie Jones, Lebron, Rondo and etc.

But the fact still remains, he's had the most success alongside kobe. How does that make you feel, little boy?
Half the people yoy listed was past prime Shaq.
Shaq won 2000-02 because that was his peak. His Orlando years he was too inexperienced and he only had 1-2 year post Lakers of his prime left.
Kobe played an important role but timing was much more important than Kobe being his sidekick.

[Bankaii]

:facepalm :facepalm
Is that your response when you have no valid argument.
Lakers won the 2000 Finals despite Kobe sucking ass.
Shaq did great in 2004 despite Kobe sucking ass.
His team teams could perform well whether he played well or not.
Hence most of his Game 7s.

[Mr Feeny]

:facepalm :facepalm

He's right tbf. 15 ppg on 36%fg is pretty embarassing. Any scrub in the league could have put that up and won with Shaq.

[Magic 32]

Who was the best?

None of them.

For some reason the ghost of MJ has put a spell on every superstar in the NBA finals outside of Shaq (who had ideal opponents when he played great).

No one has had a great track record.

Not-very-special FMVP's since 1998.

Chauncey Billups 2004
Tim Duncan 2005
Tony Parker 2007
Paul Pierce 2008
Kobe Bryant 2010
Dirk Nowitzki 2011
Lebron James 2013
Kawhi Leonard 2014
Andre Iguodala 2015

Special FMVP's since 1998 but against weak opponents

1999 Tim Duncan
2000 Shaq
2001 Shaq
2002 Shaq
2003 Tim Duncan
2009 Kobe Bryant
2012 Lebron James


So that leaves Wade in 2006. And we all know the problem with that one.

[Hey Yo]

Who was the best?

None of them.

For some reason the ghost of MJ has put a spell on every superstar in the NBA finals outside of Shaq (who had ideal opponents when he played great).

No one has had a great track record.

Not-very-special FMVP's since 1998.

Chauncey Billups 2004
Tim Duncan 2005
Tony Parker 2007
Paul Pierce 2008
Kobe Bryant 2010
Dirk Nowitzki 2011
Lebron James 2013
Kawhi Leonard 2014
Andre Iguodala 2015

Special FMVP's since 1998 but against weak opponents

1999 Tim Duncan
2000 Shaq
2001 Shaq
2002 Shaq
2003 Tim Duncan
2009 Kobe Bryant
2012 Lebron James


So that leaves Wade in 2006. And we all know the problem with that one.
How can you consider 2012 OKC as weak opponents? They were the clear favorites before the start of the Finals and only lost 3 postseason games up until that point.

Can't pound your chest and say how great the West is and then turnaround and call their Finals rep. weak.

[SouBeachTalents]

Who was the best?

None of them.

For some reason the ghost of MJ has put a spell on every superstar in the NBA finals outside of Shaq (who had ideal opponents when he played great).

No one has had a great track record.

Not-very-special FMVP's since 1998.

Chauncey Billups 2004
Tim Duncan 2005
Tony Parker 2007
Paul Pierce 2008
Kobe Bryant 2010
Dirk Nowitzki 2011
Lebron James 2013
Kawhi Leonard 2014
Andre Iguodala 2015

Special FMVP's since 1998 but against weak opponents

1999 Tim Duncan
2000 Shaq
2001 Shaq
2002 Shaq
2003 Tim Duncan
2009 Kobe Bryant
2012 Lebron James


So that leaves Wade in 2006. And we all know the problem with that one.

What's crazy about that is, from 1980-1998 how many "non great" Finals MVP's were there?

1. Maxwell in '81
2. Magic in '82 (He definitely played well, but was 5th in scoring and didn't even lead the team in assists. I wouldn't consider it a "great" performance)
3. Worthy in '88 (who shouldn't have won anyway, but had the arguable GOAT Finals Game 7 performance)
4. Jordan in '96

Besides that, you could argue every other Finals MVP winner in that span played great AND played against great competition

[Bankaii]

Who was the best?

None of them.

For some reason the ghost of MJ has put a spell on every superstar in the NBA finals outside of Shaq (who had ideal opponents when he played great).

No one has had a great track record.

Not-very-special FMVP's since 1998.

Chauncey Billups 2004
Tim Duncan 2005
Tony Parker 2007
Paul Pierce 2008
Kobe Bryant 2010
Dirk Nowitzki 2011
Lebron James 2013
Kawhi Leonard 2014
Andre Iguodala 2015

Special FMVP's since 1998 but against weak opponents

1999 Tim Duncan
2000 Shaq
2001 Shaq
2002 Shaq
2003 Tim Duncan
2009 Kobe Bryant
2012 Lebron James


So that leaves Wade in 2006. And we all know the problem with that one.
Kobetards:facepalm
So Dirk, a top 30 player all time, beating 2 superstars and an allstar all in their prime is not special?
Lebron averaging 25/11/7 on 45% while putting up historic numbers in 2 elimination games against the 3rd best defensive team and future DPOY all while playing great defense himself isn't special?
Lebron beating a team with the 2nd best player in the league, arguably best PG in the league and future scoring champ, and a guy that just lead a team to the WCF with Dwight injured, and a top 3 DPOY candidate while putting up again ATG stats isn't special?

And Wade 2006 Finals with or without refs >any version of Kobe

This is why Kobetards should be allowed to speak in public. They dump great performers like Shaq, Duncan, and Lebron in with Kobe's shit performances to try to make him look better.
Kobe is the worst out of the group, get over it.

[SouBeachTalents]

Kobetards:facepalm
So Dirk, a top 30 player all time, beating 2 superstars and an allstar all in their prime is not special?
Lebron averaging 25/11/7 on 45% while putting up historic numbers in 2 elimination games against the 3rd best defensive team and future DPOY all while playing great defense himself isn't special?
Lebron beating a team with the 2nd best player in the league, arguably best PG in the league and future scoring champ, and a guy that just lead a team to the WCF with Dwight injured, and a top 3 DPOY candidate while putting up again ATG stats isn't special?

This is why Kobetards should be allowed to speak in public. They dump great performers like Shaq, Duncan, and Lebron in with Kobe's shit performances to try to make him look better.
Kobe is the worst out of the group, get over it.

Dirk's '11 playoff run was awesome, and it's not like his Finals performance was bad or anything, he played well, especially in the clutch, but it was far from legendary, he shot under 40% in half the games.

LeBron's 2013 Finals was far from great either. He really struggled the first 3 games of the series, then played really well in Game 6 and had an awesome Game 7. It was an inconsistent series for him. I do agree with you about LeBron's 2012 though, people make out that Thunder team to be much worse than they were.

And I don't think he's necessarily "dumping" great performances from Shaq, Duncan etc., he's just saying they didn't play great competition, which I wouldn't disagree with. The East winners from '99-'03 are certainly nothing to write home about

[warriorfan]

What's crazy about that is, from 1980-1998 how many "non great" Finals MVP's were there?

1. Maxwell in '81
2. Magic in '82 (He definitely played well, but was 5th in scoring and didn't even lead the team in assists. I wouldn't consider it a "great" performance)
3. Worthy in '88 (who shouldn't have won anyway, but had the arguable GOAT Finals Game 7 performance)
4. Jordan in '96

Besides that, you could argue every other Finals MVP winner in that span played great AND played against great competition

Agreed, another great example of this is when Andre Iguodala won FMVP with only 14 ppg.

[SouBeachTalents]

Agreed, another great example of this is when Andre Iguodala won FMVP with only 14 ppg.

Lol, even if Curry had won, it'd be far from a great Finals performance. You couldn't even rank it ahead of LeBron's in 2013

[Bankaii]

Dirk's '11 playoff run was awesome, and it's not like his Finals performance was bad or anything, he played well, especially in the clutch, but it was far from legendary, he shot under 40% in half the games.

LeBron's 2013 Finals was far from great either. He really struggled the first 3 games of the series, then played really well in Game 6 and had an awesome Game 7. It was an inconsistent series for him. I do agree with you about LeBron's 2012 though, people make out that Thunder team to be much worse than they were.

And I don't think he's necessarily "dumping" great performances from Shaq, Duncan etc., he's just saying they didn't play great competition, which I wouldn't disagree with. The East winners from '99-'03 are certainly nothing to write home about
In no way am I saying Dirk was legendary in the '11 Finals, because his supporting cast still played very well. But considering the feat he overcame there is no way it can be called "not special".

And to say Lebron in 2013 was "far from great" is crazy. He was pretty shit the first half of the series but even in that bad stretch he averaged a near triple double.
Then when you look at his performance on the 2nd half of the series, along with him leading his team in every category except blocks, all while being their best defensive player(Battier could kinda be argued I guess), and Game 6 and 7 you can't say it wasn't a great series.

[Magic 32]

How can you consider 2012 OKC as weak opponents? They were the clear favorites before the start of the Finals and only lost 3 postseason games up until that point.


The bright light of the finals made them into what they really were.

Puppies.

[Magic 32]

This is why Kobetards should be allowed to speak in public. They dump great performers like Shaq, Duncan, and Lebron in with Kobe's shit performances to try to make him look better.
Kobe is the worst out of the group, get over it.


Truth hurts.

Shaq is miles ahead of Lebron in the finals.

Duncan, Lebron and Kobe are sometimes great but often quite unremarkable in the finals.

Period. End of story.

[SouBeachTalents]

In no way am I saying Dirk was legendary in the '11 Finals, because his supporting cast still played very well. But considering the feat he overcame there is no way it can be called "not special".

And to say Lebron in 2013 was "far from great" is crazy. He was pretty shit the first half of the series but even in that bad stretch he averaged a near triple double.
Then when you look at his performance on the 2nd half of the series, along with him leading his team in every category except blocks, all while being their best defensive player(Battier could kinda be argued I guess), and Game 6 and 7 you can't say it wasn't a great series.

Lol, well when even you admit he was "pretty shit" for half the series, that'd be a good indication it probably wasn't a "great" series. Averaging 17 ppg on 39% through the first 3 games is quite bad for a player of LeBron's caliber. He played well in Game 4, but his numbers look better than his actual impact, he stat padded in garbage time in the 4th, and he struggled with his shot again in Game 5.

I'm not saying he was bad, and your obviously entitled to your opinion, but LeBron really wasn't "great" in 2013. And without Allen's 3, he's getting roasted for his play in the Finals and it goes down as a mediocre performance for LeBron

[Bankaii]

Truth hurts.

Shaq is miles ahead of anyone not named MJ or possible Kareem in the Finals.

Duncan and Lebron are sometimes great,

but Kobe is often quite unremarkable in the finals.

Period. End of story.
I agree completely.

[ArbitraryWater]

LeBron doing 25/11/7 on 45% is not impressive :roll:

[DMV2]

LeBron doing 25/11/7 on 45% is not impressive :roll:
To be fair, he was posting up empty stats until Game 6.

He even got called out by one of this stans here, Tyler(forgot his full username). Thread was hilarious.

Fount it: http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?p=8715424

[GIF REACTION]

When Lebron plays bad he is prime Jason Kidd on steroids

When Kobe plays bad he is jeremy lin

[Magic 32]

I agree completely.

Sometimes great.

Often quite.

Not mutually exclusive.

So you agree with me. Great!

[Magic 32]

When Lebron plays bad he is Jason Terry's b*tch


I agree.