Kobe has 0 underdog rings

[GIF REACTION]

Lebron has 2 underdog rings

https://espnfivethirtyeight.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/paine-datalab-lebron-cast-2.png

Define,

Underdog Ring; A ring where the Favored team gets beaten by the underdog team. Each winning team players gets an underdog ring

How do we determine favorite and underdog? Please view the graph above

In 2013, Lebron beat the 2nd ranked team with the 40th ranked team. This is a significant difference in team quality, AND San Antonio were odds on favorites at the time with the bookies. CONFIRMED Underdog Ring (Tick)

In 2012, Lebron beat The OKC Thunder. The difference in the graph is a mere 3 spots, so it is not that significant. If we actually look at the odds suddenly before the finals, as well as the media predictions, and hype, Miami was CLEARLY the underdog, with 2011 loss still looming, and NEARLY losing to the Celtics in the ECF. CONFIRMED Underdog Ring (Tick)

In 2000, Shaq lead his Lakers to 67 wins, and a first of three championships. Lakers were the clear favorites, deservingly so, and they won the series as expected. CONFIRMED Basic RIng (Tick)

In 2001, Shaq once again lead his Lakers to an epic post season with only 1 loss. Clear favorites, they dismantled Philly in 5 games easily. Shaq wins his 2nd of three FMVPs. CONFIRMED Basic Ring (Tick)

In 2002, Shaq for the third year in a row, lead his Lakers to the finals, and won a third championship. It was an easy finals win over a lowly Eastern Conference squad Nets. Clear Favorites. CONFIRMED Basic Ring (Tick)

In 2009, Pau and Kobe lead their Laker squad to a 5 game win over the Orlando Magic. If we look to the uppper graph; The 2009 Lakers are a clear aways stronger than the Magic, this was also evident by the regular season records, and the eventual finals result. The odds and media picks/hype checks out, Clear Favorites. CONFIRMED Basic Ring (Tick)

In 2010, Pau lead his Laker squad to an epic 7 game victory over the Celtics. On the graph, they are virtually right next to each other, too close to use as credible evidence. Yep, the ESPN expert predictions favor the Lakers, AS does the comfortable 7 game regular season record of the Lakers. Clear Favorites. CONFIRMED Basic Ring (Tick)

Only few players have true underdog rings. From Michael Jordan, The Big Package Lebron James, Hakeem, Dirk, Chauncey.

[TheMarkMadsen]

2012 OKC ranked below 2012 heat

[GIF REACTION]

2012 OKC ranked below 2012 heat
Did you read it? 3 spots is not significant enough, whereas in 2013 it is 2nd vs 40th. That graph isn't the only factor taken into account.

[GIF REACTION]

As you can see,

http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2012/matchup/_/teams/thunder-heat

12-8 for OKC in the expert picks.

[TheMarkMadsen]

so by that logic lebron lost as the overwhelming favorite in 2014

http://espn.go.com/nba/notebook/_/page/nba1314/2013-14-nba-champion

[TheMarkMadsen]

and in 09

http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2009/matchup/_/teams/magic-cavaliers

and the picture in the OP shows that lebron lost with one of the best finals teams of all time vs one of the worst in 2011..

[GIF REACTION]

Not quite. We use a multitude of sources to determine who is underdog and who is favorite. If you read the original post you would have picked this up mark. In 2014, Lebron and the Miami Heat were the 8th worst, and the Spurs were the 7th best. A HUGE differential, that simply CANNOT be ignored. Remember, this is data equated from the conference finals, it is the most recent display of form going into those finals matchups!

[GIF REACTION]

Also, we factor in Team record as well. Spurs had a far superior WL record in 2014!

[TheMarkMadsen]

Not quite. We use a multitude of sources to determine who is underdog and who is favorite. If you read the original post you would have picked this up mark. In 2014, Lebron and the Miami Heat were the 8th worst, and the Spurs were the 7th best. A HUGE differential, that simply CANNOT be ignored. Remember, this is data equated from the conference finals, it is the most recent display of form going into those finals matchups!


:oldlol:

so originally you used the pic in the OP to determine the underdog, then it was ESPN predictions, now we are just using using your opinion..

just trying to figure out what the criteria is :confusedshrug:

[GIF REACTION]

This is about Finals WINS mark. Do not turn this thread into a kobe-Lebron dick measuring contest. Because Kobe will lose at that too.

[TheMarkMadsen]

so lebron with the 10th best finals team of all time lost to the 4th worst finals team of all time

:biggums: :biggums:

[ArbitraryWater]

so by that logic lebron lost as the overwhelming favorite in 2014

http://espn.go.com/nba/notebook/_/page/nba1314/2013-14-nba-champion

did you really just now show predictions from before the season actually started?! :roll:

Marky.. thats just sad

actual predictions/rates come from right before the actual series, good luck next time :cheers:

[GIF REACTION]

:oldlol:

so originally you used the pic in the OP to determine the underdog, then it was ESPN predictions, now we are just using using your opinion..

just trying to figure out what the criteria is :confusedshrug:
It is a culmination of multiple sources of evidence, that were recent in regards to the finals series won. AKA, statistical data from RECENT conference finals on that graph, Vegas odds, Regular season Win loss, Expert ESPN picks... If one category shows something strongly suggesting the underdog, then it will be used. But it has to be RECENT.

[ArbitraryWater]

:oldlol:

so originally you used the pic in the OP to determine the underdog, then it was ESPN predictions, now we are just using using your opinion..

just trying to figure out what the criteria is :confusedshrug:

:facepalm

****, the OP doesnt speculate... your ESPN predictions are 6 months ahead of the actual event... the OP is past it all, just summing up the help they had.. did you really not understand this? Is the high not over yet?

[GIF REACTION]

did you really just now show predictions from before the season actually started?! :roll:

Marky.. thats just sad

actual predictions/rates come from right before the actual series, good luck next time :cheers:
:applause:

This man gets it. marks last comment was literally answered right above it.

[TheMarkMadsen]

It is a culmination of multiple sources of evidence, that were recent in regards to the finals series won. AKA, statistical data from RECENT conference finals on that graph, Vegas odds, Regular season Win loss, Expert ESPN picks... If one category shows something strongly suggesting the underdog, then it will be used. But it has to be RECENT.

then why did you only use the picture in your OP originally as evidence :oldlol: :oldlol:

btw according to that graph, lebron lost with the 10th best finals teams of all time vs the 4th worst finals team of all time

[DMV2]

LeBron
Underdog - 2007 L, 2012 W, 2015 L....maybe 2014 L
Favored - 2011 L...maybe 2013 W

I honestly don't know who were favored between the two Heat-Spurs series. They were almost equally matched by critics/fans alike. I might give 2013 favored for Heat, while 2014 favored for Spurs though because the Heat had that 27-game streak in 2013 and Spurs were well-oiled machine on revenge in 2014.

Kobe
Underdog - none
Favored - 2000-02 Wx3, 2004 L, 2008* L, 2009-10 Wx2

In 2008 Finals, I remember "ESPN experts" gave a slight edge to the Lakers before the series started but I don't know about how ISH felt, or other sources.

Kobe has 0 underdog rings because he was never an underdog. LeBron only had one underdog ring though, in 2012.

[TheMarkMadsen]

:facepalm

****, the OP doesnt speculate... your ESPN predictions are 6 months ahead of the actual event... the OP is past it all, just summing up the help they had.. did you really not understand this? Is the high not over yet?

so then why is he using espn predictions that were made prior to the 2012 finals series as evidence that the HEAT were underdogs when the OP's picture clearly shows that they weren't :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[GIF REACTION]

Mark, I just addressed that you ****ing moron

This isn't about losses, and let me tell you, 2011 for Lebron is what 2004 is to Kobe.

This is about finals WINS. Where the rings underdog or favorite?

[Nick Young]

This is because Kobe is the GOAT and simply being on a team means he will never be an underdog. Not his fault he is so good.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Mark, I just addressed that you ****ing moron

This isn't about losses, and let me tell you, 2011 for Lebron is what 2004 is to Kobe.

This is about finals WINS. Where the rings underdog or favorite?

you keep changing the criteria :oldlol: :oldlol:

first it was the graph, then it was predictions, then it was vegas odds, W/L, the graph, your opinion blah blah blah

[kennethgriffin]

Kobe
worst pg ever fisher ( a year away from retirement )
old slow artest ( a year away from retirement )
crack head odom ( a year away from retirement )
gasol


vs


Rajon Rondo
Ray Allen
Paul Pierce
Rasheed Wallace
Kevin Garnett






kobes bench = farmar, sasha, luke, mbenga, morrison

celtics bench = tony allen, michael finley, glen davis, nate robinson




asside from that. ofcourse kobe doesnt have many underdog titles. why? because the east sucks...

which is why shaqs fmvps arent that great. cause the lakers real finals opponent came in the west


kobe beat the spurs 3 times without homecourt advantage

[DMV2]

did you really just now show predictions from before the season actually started?! :roll:

Marky.. thats just sad

actual predictions/rates come from right before the actual series, good luck next time :cheers:
Mark is playing dumb. He should know the difference between a preseason prediction and a Finals prediction.

ESPN Finals predictions are much more known than preseason predictions.

[Nick Young]

Pau Gasol never won a single playoff game before teaming with Kobe and was universally regarded as being too soft to get the job done.

Playing with Kobe, he not only won several playoff games but won titles. Mamba carried this Euro softie to multiple titles. That is how great the black mamba is.

[GIF REACTION]

LeBron
Underdog - 2007 L, 2012 W, 2015 L....maybe 2014 L
Favored - 2011 L...maybe 2013 W

I honestly don't know who were favored between the two Heat-Spurs series. They were almost equally matched by critics/fans alike. I might give 2013 favored for Heat, while 2014 favored for Spurs though because the Heat had that 27-game streak in 2013 and Spurs were well-oiled machine on revenge in 2014.

Kobe
Underdog - none
Favored - 2000-02 Wx3, 2004 L, 2008* L, 2009-10 Wx2

In 2008 Finals, I remember "ESPN experts" gave a slight edge to the Lakers before the series started but I don't know about how ISH felt, or other sources.

Kobe has 0 underdog rings because he was never an underdog. LeBron only had one underdog ring though, in 2012.
2013 is a tough one because the vegas odds and predictions were pretty much even, BUT that graph shows that San Antonio was the far far superior team, and the Heat were relying off the greatness of Lebron and his epic 2013 season. Mind you the heat were always a top heavy team, and Wade was barely scraping 15 points by the end of the 2013 playoffs, and Bosh was struggling for any points, culminating in a game 7 0 points. Extremely top heavy team that had fallen apart by the finals, they had just been pushed to 7 games by Indiana, and Bosh and Wade were playing nothing like All-stars.

I give the Heat the underdog status due to the circumstance of the team, the analytics major disparity, and the context on how the finals unfolded (Game 6 edge of defeat)

[TheMarkMadsen]

Mark, I just addressed that you ****ing moron

This isn't about losses, and let me tell you, 2011 for Lebron is what 2004 is to Kobe.

This is about finals WINS. Where the rings underdog or favorite?

so losing as the overwhelming favorite doesn't matter, only matters when you win as underdog..

ok :lol :lol

[kennethgriffin]

guys... we all know the east sucks and lebron has a free trip to the finals every time in which he only plays 1 real team a year. you dont have to remind us of this

[DMV2]

Kobe
worst pg ever fisher ( a year away from retirement )
old slow artest ( a year away from retirement )
crack head odom ( a year away from retirement )
gasol


vs


Rajon Rondo
Ray Allen
Paul Pierce
Rasheed Wallace
Kevin Garnett






kobes bench = farmar, sasha, luke, mbenga, morrison

celtics bench = tony allen, michael finley, glen davis, nate robinson




asside from that. ofcourse kobe doesnt have many underdog titles. why? because the east sucks...

which is why shaqs fmvps arent that great. cause the lakers real finals opponent came in the west


kobe beat the spurs 3 times without homecourt advantage

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2008/series?series=lalbos

https://i.gyazo.com/60f96b42c14482feb35c4e622f9e00ed.png

[GIF REACTION]

so losing as the overwhelming favorite doesn't matter, only matters when you win as underdog..

ok :lol :lol
That is not the topic of the thread

If you want to talk about finals losses as favorite then;

Lebron 2011 only

Kobe 2004. 2008

[GIF REACTION]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2008/series?series=lalbos

https://i.gyazo.com/60f96b42c14482feb35c4e622f9e00ed.png
LMAO

Kobe has more finals losses as favorite than Lebron

****ing LMAO

[TheMarkMadsen]

That is not the topic of the thread


fair enough

but lebron has lost multiple times as the favorite, especially in the preliminary rounds prior to the finals.. which might mean something to some people..

[kennethgriffin]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2008/series?series=lalbos

https://i.gyazo.com/60f96b42c14482feb35c4e622f9e00ed.png


so if kobe makes the lakers the favourites even with a worse supporting cast. how is it really an insult





boston had by far the deeper team

take kobe off and boston wins by 20 points every game in a 4 game sweep

[Nick Young]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2008/series?series=lalbos

https://i.gyazo.com/60f96b42c14482feb35c4e622f9e00ed.png
ESPN "analysts" are phucking retarded. Since when did their opinions mean anything?

Celtics were healthy and had 3 HOFers. Lakers had their starting center Bynum and only good role player Ariza injured and out of action.

All Kobe had was Pau Gasoft and Derek Fisher.

On top of that, Powe-whistle was coincidentally given 24 freethrows and treated like Lebron by the refs on the same game he had his heart warming half time segment airing. You think that's a coincidence? This shit was rigged.

Celtics had 3 HOFers still at their peak. Only a retarded analyst would call them underdogs in that series.

[GIF REACTION]

fair enough

but lebron has lost multiple times as the favorite, especially in the preliminary rounds prior to the finals.. which might mean something to some people..
So now every year matters?

Why don't we count Kobe losing in the first round IN HIS PRIME MULTIPLE TIMES

Why don't we count Kobe NOT MAKING THE PLAYOFFS IN HIS PRIME

[DMV2]

2013 is a tough one because the vegas odds and predictions were pretty much even, BUT that graph shows that San Antonio was the far far superior team, and the Heat were relying off the greatness of Lebron and his epic 2013 season. Mind you the heat were always a top heavy team, and Wade was barely scraping 15 points by the end of the 2013 playoffs, and Bosh was struggling for any points, culminating in a game 7 0 points. Extremely top heavy team that had fallen apart by the finals, they had just been pushed to 7 games by Indiana, and Bosh and Wade were playing nothing like All-stars.

I give the Heat the underdog status due to the circumstance of the team, the analytics major disparity, and the context on how the finals unfolded (Game 6 edge of defeat)
Fair enough....I sorta gave the edge to Heat as favorites because of that 27-game streak.

I know that's in the regular season but that feat showed they were on the brink of being one of the greatest teams in recent years. I feel that the whole LeBron talk undervalue their team a bit.

[Nick Young]

So now every year matters?

Why don't we count Kobe losing in the first round IN HIS PRIME MULTIPLE TIMES

Why don't we count Kobe NOT MAKING THE PLAYOFFS IN HIS PRIME
Kobe took the Suns to 7 games with SMUSH PARKER AND LUKE WALTON AND CHRIS MIHM STARTING AND LAMAR CRACKDOM THE ONLY DECENT PLAYER. No other player in NBA history could have achieved that much with the shit team that was surrounding Mamba during his prime years.

[TheMarkMadsen]

So now every year matters?

nope only the years you cherrypick to make somebody look better


Why don't we count Kobe losing in the first round IN HIS PRIME MULTIPLE TIMES

people do, but he played on a team who maybe wins 10 games without him and was in a brutal western conference so that's a pretty good reason..



Why don't we count Kobe NOT MAKING THE PLAYOFFS IN HIS PRIME

people do, but he missed 20 games and played on a shit team. KAJ missed the playoffs b2b years in his prime, but nobody cares.. the rest of his career ended up outweighing that I guess..

[GIF REACTION]

Kobe took the Suns to 7 games with SMUSH PARKER AND LUKE WALTON AND CHRIS MIHM STARTING AND LAMAR CRACKDOM THE ONLY DECENT PLAYER. No other player in NBA history could have achieved that much with the shit team that was surrounding Mamba during his prime years.
So now one man carry feats matter?

Why don't we count Lebron in 2007 when he dragged his huge junk as Akrazotile likes to put it, to the finals?

Why don't we count Lebron in 2014?

Why don't we count Lebron in 2015?

[Magic 32]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2008/series?series=lalbos

https://i.gyazo.com/60f96b42c14482feb35c4e622f9e00ed.png

ECF 2009

http://s14.postimg.org/wup3ga8qp/dfgdfg.png

ECSF 2010

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/347412/seriespicks.JPG

[GIF REACTION]

The kobetards have arrived. Lock this thread up mods. The original discussion had been derailed into a smallbe LeBig James dick measuring contest. And we know how that ends up everytime.

[warriorfan]

Lebron stans always base their argument on ESPN created fake stats... :lol

[DMV2]

ESPN "analysts" are phucking retarded. Since when did their opinions mean anything?

Celtics were healthy and had 3 HOFers. Lakers had their starting center Bynum and only good role player Ariza injured and out of action.

All Kobe had was Pau Gasoft and Derek Fisher.

On top of that, Powe-whistle was coincidentally given 24 freethrows and treated like Lebron by the refs on the same game he had his heart warming half time segment airing. You think that's a coincidence? This shit was rigged.

Celtics had 3 HOFers still at their peak. Only a retarded analyst would call them underdogs in that series.
2012 Finals
http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2012/matchup/_/teams/thunder-heat
12-8 in favor of the Thunder. And from what I remember, ISH also had OKC favored.

It's not like "ESPN experts" is completely off based from what the general public says before a series starts.

Your opinion/view is in retrospective so it's irrelevant. Anybody gave analyze after the fact. Link me to a page/quote where you said the Celtics would dominate the Lakers before, then I'll believe what you say.

And I know you've been on ISH forever Nick AKA blondie.

[warriorfan]

From my personal basketball expert analysis I always thought the Celtics were the favored team vs the Lakers. Boston was stacked.

[DMV2]

ECF 2009

http://s14.postimg.org/wup3ga8qp/dfgdfg.png

ECSF 2010

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/347412/seriespicks.JPG
Who's denying LeBron weren't favored in those ECF series? His 66-win Cavs choked two straight playoffs. Well documented.

This topic is about who has more underdog rings. Kobe or LeBron?

LeBron is your clear winner.

[DMV2]

From my personal basketball expert analysis I always thought the Celtics were the favored team vs the Lakers. Boston was stacked.
I had Boston favored too before the 2008 started. Actually, when they ended the Rockets streak, I gave them favorites to win it all.

Only thing I can think of that made ESPN favored the Lakers was the Celtics underwhelming playoff performances in the early rounds.

2010...Lakers were clear favorites. Not sure how that series even went to 7 games. Should have ended in 6 if Pau showed up in one of the Boston games.

[Magic 32]

Who's denying LeBron weren't favored in those ECF series? His 66-win Cavs choked two straight playoffs. Well documented.

This topic is about who has more underdog rings. Kobe or LeBron?

LeBron is your clear winner.

How is he a clear winner? He has zero underdog rings.

The average age of the Thunder superstar trio was 22.6.

They were puppies.

Against the Not 1, not 2, not 3 crew at their peak.

Please.

[TheMarkMadsen]

08 with the Lakers missing Bynum/Ariza and starting Radmanovic at PF :whatever: :whatever:

[GIF REACTION]

How is he a clear winner? He has zero underdog rings.

The average age of the Thunder superstar trio was 22.6.

They were puppies.

Against the Not 1, not 2, not 3.... at their peak. Please.
Wade was already in decline

Bosh was on one leg from the abdominal tear in the 2nd round

Statistically, the teams were even

vegas had OKC the favorites comfortably

The Expert predictors had OKC 12-8 favorites

The talk at the time, on the forum, across the NBA universe, had OKC as favorites

[GIF REACTION]

08 with the Lakers missing Bynum/Ariza and starting Radmanovic at PF :whatever: :whatever:
And Boston had been pushed to 7 games by an 8th Atlanta in the first round, then another 7 by Cleveland, and then another bunch of games by Detroit

Recent results

[DMV2]

Wade was already in decline

Bosh was on one leg from the abdominal tear in the 2nd round

Statistically, the teams were even

vegas had OKC the favorites comfortably

The Expert predictors had OKC 12-8 favorites

The talk at the time, on the forum, across the NBA universe, had OKC as favorites
Surprisingly, this was the biggest factor in the series.

Thunder Big 3 age and Harden's disappearance wasn't even that big of a factor. It was Bosh raping the OKC frontcourt on the glass and in the paint that was the biggest factor.

To this day, people still dont give Bosh the credit he deserved for that series.

[Magic 32]

The talk at the time, on the forum, across the NBA universe, had OKC as favorites

The talk at the time?

The talk was about how the Spurs could have collapsed like they did (lockout schedule?).

If the Thunder were favorites it was only because everyone expected another 2011-like finals collapse from Lebron.

[Indian guy]

In Kobe's defense, Lakers were the favored team all 7 times they made the Finals with him.

[GIF REACTION]

I thought Miami's overall physical play led them to win in 2012

Lebron got physical with Durant and absolutely smashed him on the boards and frequently got him into foul trouble

It was the only way to stop/slow down a red hot Durant

And it worked

[warriorfan]

Just look at those Laker teams. Has there ever been a group chalk so full of softies, headcases, and chokers that won the championship?

Pau
Bynum
Artest
Odom
Ariza

All of those guys are huge question marks especially in big game scenarios. I would be terrified to have that group of mentally weak players rolling out to play in the Finals. If you notice one constant between ALL of these players is that none of them never did shit with out Kobe. All flamed out of the league to never accomplish anything. Without Kobe being a GOAT Alpha Backbone of that team, they aren't going anywhere.

[TheMarkMadsen]

And Boston had been pushed to 7 games by an 8th Atlanta in the first round, then another 7 by Cleveland, and then another bunch of games by Detroit

Recent results

so :confusedshrug:

[GIF REACTION]

so :confusedshrug:
:facepalm

Mark, mark, mark, mark. What are we going to do with you?

[TheMarkMadsen]

:facepalm

Mark, mark, mark, mark. What are we going to do with you?

what's the point of bringing up the Celtics being pushed to 7 games in 08?

you could say the same thing about the the Spurs in 2014..

Lakers were missing Bynum/Ariza and were forced to start some guy you've never heard of at PF..

[Rocketswin2013]

The 2013 Heat are so overrated. Peaked in February.

[GIF REACTION]

The 2013 Heat are so overrated. Peaked in February.
This

The stats support this as well

Wade fell off a cliff after the win streak

As did Bosh

There is no excuse for Bosh 0 points in Game 7

[Indian guy]

The 2013 Heat are so overrated. Peaked in February.

That's an odd thing to say when their 27-game win streak didn't end until March 27. But that streak definitely came at the expense of Wade's knees. They overplayed him to go for the all-time record and his knees started acting up late regular season, leading to a pretty brutal postseason for him for the most part. Miami went from a dominant regular season team to one that had to really grind in the playoffs to win the championship, costing them a chance to go down as one of the great teams of the post-MJ era.

[KembaWalker]

:roll: :roll: :roll: underdog rings, really

Bron stans trying to get a W anywhere they can

2011 tho... +5.1 losing to +0.4 sheeesh

[Nick Young]

Just look at those Laker teams. Has there ever been a group chalk so full of softies, headcases, and chokers that won the championship?

Pau
Bynum
Artest
Odom
Ariza

All of those guys are huge question marks especially in big game scenarios. I would be terrified to have that group of mentally weak players rolling out to play in the Finals. If you notice one constant between ALL of these players is that none of them never did shit with out Kobe. All flamed out of the league to never accomplish anything. Without Kobe being a GOAT Alpha Backbone of that team, they aren't going anywhere.
DING DING DING

Kobe's leadership turned mentally weak scrubs in to NBA champions.

[Nick Young]

2012 Finals
http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2012/matchup/_/teams/thunder-heat
12-8 in favor of the Thunder. And from what I remember, ISH also had OKC favored.

It's not like "ESPN experts" is completely off based from what the general public says before a series starts.

Your opinion/view is in retrospective so it's irrelevant. Anybody gave analyze after the fact. Link me to a page/quote where you said the Celtics would dominate the Lakers before, then I'll believe what you say.

And I know you've been on ISH forever Nick AKA blondie.
I would never say that the Celtics will dominate the Lakers, and never will.

Doesn't change the fact that ESPN analyst opinions mean jack shit.

Also, the Powe-Whistle game was fixed before it began.

Celtics were fully healthy and had 3 HOFers in their prime, Lakers had 2 of their top 4 players injured. If Lakers were fully healthy they win that series, no doubt.

[Coach Eddie]

LeBron wasn't underdog for both.

[Coach Eddie]

It also should be pointed out how many times LeBron lost to underdogs.

[Riks]

They are both overrated.

[knicksman]

Talent wise he doesnt but because of what happened in 2011, they realized bran just isnt that good as his stats say

[Hey Yo]

The talk at the time?

The talk was about how the Spurs could have collapsed like they did (lockout schedule?).

If the Thunder were favorites it was only because everyone expected another 2011-like finals collapse from Lebron.
:roll:

They were "by far" the favorites.....

[Coach Eddie]

:roll:

They were "by far" the favorites.....
:coleman:

[SamuraiSWISH]

LeBron with underdog rings in Miami? Bwahaha good joke. 2014 and 2015 would've been.

[guy]

Lebron being an underdog in 2012 is kind of a joke. His team was the underdog but mainly because he terribly choked in 2011 and in 2010 to a lesser extent. It didn't really have anything to do with anything else.

[G0ATbe]

How can you have the most stacked team in the league and arguably all time and still be an underdog?:roll:

[West-Side]

worst pg ever fisher ( a year away from retirement )
old slow artest ( a year away from retirement )
crack head odom ( a year away from retirement )


[/I][/B]


:roll:

[Bankaii]

Lebron being an underdog in 2012 is kind of a joke. His team was the underdog but mainly because he terribly choked in 2011 and in 2010 to a lesser extent. It didn't really have anything to do with anything else.
Or because the Thunder were a 2nd seed in the West with the 3rd best record in the league and were completely destroying the West in the playoffs. The team had a big 3 of athletic scoring machines averaging almost 70 points alone and had 3 defensive specialist

Meanwhile the Heat needed a God tier perfomance from Bron just to get to the Finals. On top of that Bosh was injured for more than half the series.

Or you can literally google it and see that the Thunder were favorites.

This happened 3 years ago why are idiots trying to revise history acting like it happened decades ago.

[West-Side]

LeBron was favorite every year except 2005 & last year.
What a joke to suggest otherwise.

Kobe was NOT the favorite in 2004 or 2008. If anyone with half a brain who does the due diligence and evaluates each team priorly without looking at retarded vegas odds, they will realize this. Both Ariza & Bynum DID NOT contribute to LA against a fully healthy Boston squad that won like 60+ games that year. Boston were clearly the favorite to win the title and did. In 2004, Karl Malone was injured. LA's replacement PF was Medvedenko. :facepalm Furthermore, Payton struggled ALL post-season; he was utterly useless offensively. Shaq had weight problems and a bad knee (plus bad toe). Kobe had off-court issues. They did (surprisingly) beat SA that year but that team was a mess. If LeBron gets a pass for Irving & Love being injured against G (rightfully so), then people need to get their heads out of their asses and do the same for Kobe. Malone/Shaq hurt (Payton useless) and Bynum/Ariza out. :rolleyes:

****ing morons actually think LA was the favorite over a fully healthy Boston squad in 2008? :facepalm

Kobe was not the favorite in 2004 & 2008, if you consider the context carefully and stop regurgitating the odds.

LeBron was not the favorite in 2005 or 2014.
He was clearly the favorite in 2011, 2012, 2013 & 2014.

It's a ****ing joke that anyone considers a Bosh/Wade/LeBron team inferior to SA. Blame LEBRON for not developing a cohesion with his teammates. This clown makes everyone around him worse. What happened to Love last year? Barely heard his name.

Fact
Pau Gasol
Andrew Bynum
Smush Parker
Lamar Odom
Luke Walton
Kwame Brown
Chris Mihm
Vlad Radmanovic

Never played bigger roles on any team in league history than when they played for Kobe. Literally most of them disappeared off the planet as soon as they left Kobe.

Gasol - winless as the #1 option in the playoffs (0-16).
Bynum - was injured in LA yet somehow was "so crucial" to LA according to the haters; left LA just vanished.
Parker - left the league after leaving LA, "Hi, from Europe."
Odom - become a crack head, was extremely depressed that LA betrayed him; misses his brothers Kobe & Pau. Was atrocious in Dallas.
Walton - like 4-5 MPG on shitty ass teams when he was LA's starting SF at times.
Mihm - :oldlol: , don't even know what happened to our starting center for a year or so.
K.Brown - riding the pine on some shitty team probably playing 7 MPG or maybe more if his improved his butter fingers. Guy was Kobe's starting PF for a couple of years.
Vlad Rad - starting SF at times, disappeared off the face of the earth.

That right there boys is who Kobe led to 3 straight final appearances.

[G0ATbe]

LeBald must be extremely shitty at utilizing his teammates abilities if a team with prime Wade/Bosh on it are underdogs.

[aj1987]

It's a ****ing joke that anyone considers a Bosh/Wade/LeBron team inferior to SA. Blame LEBRON for not developing a cohesion with his teammates. This clown makes everyone around him worse. What happened to Love last year? Barely heard his name.
You do know that Wade was injured in the PO's, right? Bosh literally turned into a bitch. Couldn't defend and couldn't rebound. Dude wasn't struggling to boxout David West in the ECF and made Hibbert look like Shaq.

Love? Dude made the PO's and Finals in the same season, after never even sniffing the PO's throughout his career.

[West-Side]

You do know that Wade was injured in the PO's, right? Bosh literally turned into a bitch. Couldn't defend and couldn't rebound. Dude wasn't struggling to boxout David West in the ECF and made Hibbert look like Shaq.

Love? Dude made the PO's and Finals in the same season, after never even sniffing the PO's throughout his career.

So we're not blaming LeBron for Bosh, right?
Bosh was a 24/12 player in Toronto as the #1 option but as soon as he joins LeBron; he regresses almost instantly. :rolleyes:

Pau Gasol only got better by playing with Kobe.
Lamar was better around Kobe, same with countless other players.

Wade played all 5 games in the NBA finals and averaged 35 MPG.
But we're allowed to say "Wade was hurt and Bosh was a bitch" yet completely ignore Karl Malone's injury, Payton being USELESS (7 PPG on 35% all playoffs) and Shaq's injuries and weight issues plus Kobe's off court issues.

Yeah ISH logic right there people.
You as a ****ing leader should take responsibility to motivate your teammates; Kobe was tough on Pau and demanded excellence. If Bosh couldn't box out West, it was LeBron's job as the leader or best player on the team to increase his motivation.

Love made the playoffs, because he had LeBron & Irving on the team. He didn't have much in Minnesota. Point is, he barely was the same player he was in Minnesota.

14' - 26.1 PPG, 12.5 RPG, 4.4 APG, 46 FG%
15' - 16.4 PPG, 9.7 RPG, 2.2 APG, 43 FG%

:facepalm
Shouldn't the "King" make his teammates job easier?
Why is Love shooting worse when LeBron apparently attracts all the attention.
He only played 2.5 less minutes a game.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

LeBron's ability to mend garbage into formidable help is something I'm not sure I have seen before. He's truly great in that regard. Playing next to other superstars while having to adjust HIS game, and not the other way around? Not exactly his strong suit.

Dude is like a one-man version of the monstars. Every superstar that plays alongside him is abruptly robbed of his talent. :oldlol:

[Bankaii]

So we're not blaming LeBron for Bosh, right?
Bosh was a 24/12 player in Toronto as the #1 option but as soon as he joins LeBron; he regresses almost instantly. :rolleyes:

Pau Gasol only got better by playing with Kobe.
Lamar was better around Kobe, same with countless other players.

Wade played all 5 games in the NBA finals and averaged 35 MPG.
But we're allowed to say "Wade was hurt and Bosh was a bitch" yet completely ignore Karl Malone's injury, Payton being USELESS (7 PPG on 35% all playoffs) and Shaq's injuries and weight issues plus Kobe's off court issues.

Yeah ISH logic right there people.
You as a ****ing leader should take responsibility to motivate your teammates; Kobe was tough on Pau and demanded excellence. If Bosh couldn't box out West, it was LeBron's job as the leader or best player on the team to increase his motivation.

Love made the playoffs, because he had LeBron & Irving on the team. He didn't have much in Minnesota. Point is, he barely was the same player he was in Minnesota.

14' - 26.1 PPG, 12.5 RPG, 4.4 APG, 46 FG%
15' - 16.4 PPG, 9.7 RPG, 2.2 APG, 43 FG%

:facepalm
Shouldn't the "King" make his teammates job easier?
Why is Love shooting worse when LeBron apparently attracts all the attention.
He only played 2.5 less minutes a game.
Kobetards:facepalm

The Thunder favored in 2012, stop trying to change history and get over it.

Pau not Odom got better around Kobe, they both had their best statistical seasons before going to LA, so that's a lie.

And what does the 2004 Finals have to do with anything? Kobe choked. And you're comparing 3rd and 4th options to Lebrons 2nd and 3rd options. You conveniently seemed to leave out a guy on that team that carried Kobe to 3 prior rings, that's why Malone and Payton don't compare to Wade and Bosh.

And if other players can apparently lead and motivate another player to do well, why didn't Kobe do the same with Kwame Brown and Smush Parker. Kobetards always complain about how bad Kwame was at everything why didn't Kobe motivate him to improve on anything? Maybe because he had no control over that talent, or lack thereof of another player dumbass.

Pau's Grizzlies weren't that much of a better team than the 2014 Timberwolves. Pau still made the playoffs. If 24/12 Kevin Love is such a star shouldn't he be able to at least will his team to an 8th seed. Same with Bosh getting raped in the first round of the "weakest conference ever".

And my goodness you're dumb. The points drop off is due to him going from a 1st option to a 3rd option. His FGA went down because he playing behind top scorers so his points will go down. It's not a difficult concept to grasp.

And lol at you complaining about people diminishing Lebrons teams then you go and shit talk Kobe's stacked ass teams. Kobe didn't win jack shit until Pau came. And that same team bailed his ass out every single year he choked in the playoffs.

Are you really this stupid?

[West-Side]

Kobetards:facepalm

The Thunder favored in 2012, stop trying to change history and get over it.

Pau not Odom got better around Kobe, they both had their best statistical seasons before going to LA, so that's a lie.

And what does the 2004 Finals have to do with anything? Kobe choked. And you're comparing 3rd and 4th options to Lebrons 2nd and 3rd options. You conveniently seemed to leave out a guy on that team that carried Kobe to 3 prior rings, that's why Malone and Payton don't compare to Wade and Bosh.

And if other players can apparently lead and motivate another player to do well, why didn't Kobe do the same with Kwame Brown and Smush Parker. Kobetards always complain about how bad Kwame was at everything why didn't Kobe motivate him to improve on anything? Maybe because he had no control over that talent, or lack thereof of another player dumbass.

Pau's Grizzlies weren't that much of a better team than the 2014 Timberwolves. Pau still made the playoffs. If 24/12 Kevin Love is such a star shouldn't he be able to at least will his team to an 8th seed. Same with Bosh getting raped in the first round of the "weakest conference ever".

And my goodness you're dumb. The points drop off is due to him going from a 1st option to a 3rd option. His FGA went down because he playing behind top scorers so his points will go down. It's not a difficult concept to grasp.

And lol at you complaining about people diminishing Lebrons teams then you go and shit talk Kobe's stacked ass teams. Kobe didn't win jack shit until Pau came. And that same team bailed his ass out every single year he choked in the playoffs.

Are you really this stupid?


Worst post I've ever read.
There's so many holes that for the first time I'm not even going to waste my time.

[West-Side]

Kobetards:facepalm

The Thunder favored in 2012, stop trying to change history and get over it.

Pau not Odom got better around Kobe, they both had their best statistical seasons before going to LA, so that's a lie.

And what does the 2004 Finals have to do with anything? Kobe choked. And you're comparing 3rd and 4th options to Lebrons 2nd and 3rd options. You conveniently seemed to leave out a guy on that team that carried Kobe to 3 prior rings, that's why Malone and Payton don't compare to Wade and Bosh.

And if other players can apparently lead and motivate another player to do well, why didn't Kobe do the same with Kwame Brown and Smush Parker. Kobetards always complain about how bad Kwame was at everything why didn't Kobe motivate him to improve on anything? Maybe because he had no control over that talent, or lack thereof of another player dumbass.

Pau's Grizzlies weren't that much of a better team than the 2014 Timberwolves. Pau still made the playoffs. If 24/12 Kevin Love is such a star shouldn't he be able to at least will his team to an 8th seed. Same with Bosh getting raped in the first round of the "weakest conference ever".

And my goodness you're dumb. The points drop off is due to him going from a 1st option to a 3rd option. His FGA went down because he playing behind top scorers so his points will go down. It's not a difficult concept to grasp.

And lol at you complaining about people diminishing Lebrons teams then you go and shit talk Kobe's stacked ass teams. Kobe didn't win jack shit until Pau came. And that same team bailed his ass out every single year he choked in the playoffs.

Are you really this stupid?

I can't resist.
GUYS, READ THIS MORON CAREFULLY.

He just said that:

1) Pau's team in Memphis (when they made 3 straight playoff appearances) was NO BETTER than Love's team in 2014. :lol
2) This dipshit is talking about Bosh not making it out of the 1st round, yet Pau Gasol was 0-12 in the first round before coming to LA as the "man".
3) Pau won 50 games in the reg. season and got swept in the 1st round.
4) You're a ****ing moron beyond belief, the rest of your post is pure garbage without any coherent argument whatsoever.
5) Don't post again, please.

[Hey Yo]

So we're not blaming LeBron for Bosh, right?
Bosh was a 24/12 player in Toronto as the #1 option but as soon as he joins LeBron; he regresses almost instantly. :rolleyes:

Pau Gasol only got better by playing with Kobe.
Lamar was better around Kobe, same with countless other players.

Wade played all 5 games in the NBA finals and averaged 35 MPG.
But we're allowed to say "Wade was hurt and Bosh was a bitch" yet completely ignore Karl Malone's injury, Payton being USELESS (7 PPG on 35% all playoffs) and Shaq's injuries and weight issues plus Kobe's off court issues.

Yeah ISH logic right there people.
You as a ****ing leader should take responsibility to motivate your teammates; Kobe was tough on Pau and demanded excellence. If Bosh couldn't box out West, it was LeBron's job as the leader or best player on the team to increase his motivation.

Love made the playoffs, because he had LeBron & Irving on the team. He didn't have much in Minnesota. Point is, he barely was the same player he was in Minnesota.

14' - 26.1 PPG, 12.5 RPG, 4.4 APG, 46 FG%
15' - 16.4 PPG, 9.7 RPG, 2.2 APG, 43 FG%

:facepalm
Shouldn't the "King" make his teammates job easier?
Why is Love shooting worse when LeBron apparently attracts all the attention.
He only played 2.5 less minutes a game.
Can you show me past examples of 1st options that became 3rd options who were still able keep their PPG the same with less FGA and FTA per game?

Thanks.

btw....MWP the year before joining the Lakers, 17ppg...after joining 11ppg

[Hey Yo]

I can't resist.
GUYS, READ THIS MORON CAREFULLY.

He just said that:

1) Pau's team in Memphis (when they made 3 straight playoff appearances) was NO BETTER than Love's team in 2014. :lol
2) This dipshit is talking about Bosh not making it out of the 1st round, yet Pau Gasol was 0-12 in the first round before coming to LA as the "man".
3) Pau won 50 games in the reg. season and got swept in the 1st round.
4) You're a ****ing moron beyond belief, the rest of your post is pure garbage without any coherent argument whatsoever.
5) Don't post again, please.
:applause: Good job at fianlly getting it right considering your exaggeration on the last page (and other times) when you said 0-16

[West-Side]

Can you show me past examples of 1st options that became 3rd options who were still able keep their PPG the same with less FGA and FTA per game?

Thanks.

btw....MWP the year before joining the Lakers, 17ppg...after joining 11ppg

Who the **** is talking about PPG?
It's the lack of cohesion that LeBron creates when playing with talent.
You can tell the confusion or frustration from both Wade & Bosh when playing with that guy. Kobe was able to score from the post and from the perimeter; drawing double & triple teams from anywhere on the floor, which is why he can actually make his teammates better. But it's not even talent that separates him from LeBorn. It's his LEADERSHIP off and on the court. His work ethic motivates his teammates; there were COUNTLESS times where his former teammates have praised that about Kobe and said it motivated them to do the same. There were so many young players working out with Kobe during the summer because of his work ethic.

That work ethic transcends boundaries. It earns him respect. So when he yells or is pissed at his teammates, they automatically try to do better. Look at the countless times he screamed at Pau in the playoffs and boom; Pau improved almost instantly, either during the game or the next game.

I don't see that from LeBron. He looks like a "nice guy" who doesn't really get hostile with his teammates.

I guess the best way to show you is with numbers.

Pau Gasol:

08'

With Memphis - .501 FG%
With LA - .589 FG%

Before coming to LA - .512 FG%
After coming to LA:

.589
.567
.536

After Kobe's injury:

.466
.480

With Chicago: .494

Chris Bosh shot 52% in 2009 with TO.
He joins Miami, and shoots .496 & .487

Only after he starts taking over 4 shots less a game (compared to his days in TO does his FG% resembles 52%).

Now look at how much Pau improved playing with Kobe compared to Bosh.

[West-Side]

:applause: Good job at fianlly getting it right considering your exaggeration on the last page (and other times) when you said 0-16

He is 0-16.
He also got swept by SA when Kobe tore his achilles.
He was 0-12 before joining LA. :rolleyes:

[aj1987]

So we're not blaming LeBron for Bosh, right?
Bosh was a 24/12 player in Toronto as the #1 option but as soon as he joins LeBron; he regresses almost instantly. :rolleyes:
He went from being the #1 option to the #3 option. Dude was playing with 2 others who are MUCH better than him and take ~18 shots a game.


Pau Gasol only got better by playing with Kobe.
Lamar was better around Kobe, same with countless other players.
Gaol went from averaging 21 PPG to 19 PPG. Heck dude averaged a career high in RPG the previous season. 14 PPG in '13 to 17 and 19 in '14 & '15.

Same with Lamar Odom. Dude went from 17 PPG with the Heat to 14 PPG on the Lakers.


Wade played all 5 games in the NBA finals and averaged 35 MPG.
Ok...? He wasn't hurt and playing injured?


But we're allowed to say "Wade was hurt and Bosh was a bitch" yet completely ignore Karl Malone's injury, Payton being USELESS (7 PPG on 35% all playoffs) and Shaq's injuries and weight issues plus Kobe's off court issues.
Malone and Payton were useless, but Shaq was still beasting. Dude averaged 27/11 on 63% and Kobe shot what? 34%?


You as a ****ing leader should take responsibility to motivate your teammates; Kobe was tough on Pau and demanded excellence. If Bosh couldn't box out West, it was LeBron's job as the leader or best player on the team to increase his motivation.

The only way Heat center Chris Bosh will see himself playing in the post again is by watching old highlight videos.

Bosh made it even clearer Saturday his days of living on the block are gone.

As in R.I.P to his post game.

"I don't bang anybody anymore," Bosh said. "It's a tired thing for me. It's not my strength and I understand that."

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-basketball/24571850/heats-chris-bosh-on-playing-in-the-post-i-dont-bang-anymore



Love made the playoffs, because he had LeBron & Irving on the team. He didn't have much in Minnesota. Point is, he barely was the same player he was in Minnesota.
Remove LeBron from the Cav's and they're still in the lottery. The Cav's were 3-10 without LeBron. Rubio, Pekovic, Martin, and Brewer. They had one dude averaging 19 and another one 18.


14' - 26.1 PPG, 12.5 RPG, 4.4 APG, 46 FG%
15' - 16.4 PPG, 9.7 RPG, 2.2 APG, [B]43 FG%
'14 - 40-42 and missed the PO's
'15 - 54-28 and made the Finals


Shouldn't the "King" make his teammates job easier?
Why is Love shooting worse when LeBron apparently attracts all the attention.
He only played 2.5 less minutes a game.
Kyrie - Career high TS
TT - Career high TS
JR - Highest TS in the past 7 seasons
Mozgov - Career high TS
Shump - Highest TS since his Sophomore season

Love? Dude has back issues throughout the seasons and he himself said it was effecting his shot. He still managed to score on 56% TS. Only 3% off of last season.

[branslowski]

Mark already Ethered the op...So no need for me to pile on.

Kobe 5 rings, LeBron 2.

Kobe lost 2 Finals, LeBron lost 4.

F*ck a Underdog, overdog, catdog, anydog, no matter how you slice it n try n come up with something that makes it appear that LeBron has more rings, wont change reality.

http://i.imgur.com/ZZKU24N.jpg

^^^^I would wanna change that aswell..:lebroncry:

[West-Side]

:oldlol: @ you guys using PPG to determine impact.
Clearly, if you're playing with talent that's better than you; you'd expect your PPG to go down.

Yet Bosh's FG% also went down; so did Love's.
Somehow their RPG went significantly down, but that is somewhat reasonable considering LeBron is a great rebounder.

However, Kobe's teammates improved efficiency playing alongside him, especially Pau Gasol.

Lamar Odom shot 43% with Miami & Clippers; he shot 48% playing with Kobe, including TWO 53% seasons.

Honestly, don't make me destroy you guys.
I really don't feel like wasting my time doing this same analysis for more players.

YOU GET THE POINT

[Hey Yo]

Who the **** is talking about PPG?
You did in the your post I quoted, dummy.

Bosh was a 24/12 player in Toronto as the #1 option

Love:
14' - 26.1 PPG,
15' - 16.4 PPG,

Let me know when you find those examples.

[kennethgriffin]

Lebron has 0 Alphadog rings





Alphadog = no ring chasing or colluding

Alphadog = atleast 20 ppg or 10 rpg or 10 assists for season, playoffs, finals

Alphadog = no bail out shots to save an elimination finals game

Alphadog = no lockout season asterisks

Alphadog = no more than 1 other prime HOF team mate

Alphadog = beat atleast 3 teams with 50+ wins during your title run





leaders of Alphadog titles:

#1 Kobe - 4 ( didn't average 20+ points in 2000 nba finals )
#1 Jordan - 4 ( didn't beat enough 50+ win teams in 1991 or 1996 )
#3 Shaq - 3 ( didn't beat enough 50+ win teams in 2006 )
#3 Duncan - 3 ( lockout 1999, didn't average over 20ppg or 10 rpg in 2014 )
#4 Hakeem - 2

[Hey Yo]

Mark already Ethered the op...So no need for me to pile on.

Kobe 5 rings, LeBron 2.

Kobe lost 2 Finals, LeBron lost 4.

F*ck a Underdog, overdog, catdog, anydog, no matter how you slice it n try n come up with something that makes it appear that LeBron has more rings, wont change reality.
Kobe 2 rings with 1 Finals loss as first option (not counting 04')
LeBron 2 rings (one as an underdog) with 3 Finals losses as first option.

5 finals appearances > 3

[Hey Yo]

Originally posted by kennethgriffin
Alphadog = no ring chasing or colluding

Kobe did that right before the draft.

[aj1987]

:oldlol: @ you guys using PPG to determine impact.
Clearly, if you're playing with talent that's better than you; you'd expect your PPG to go down.

Yet Bosh's FG% also went down; so did Love's.
Somehow their RPG went significantly down, but that is somewhat reasonable considering LeBron is a great rebounder.

However, Kobe's teammates improved efficiency playing alongside him, especially Pau Gasol.

Lamar Odom shot 43% with Miami & Clippers; he shot 48% playing with Kobe, including TWO 53% seasons.

Honestly, don't make me destroy you guys.
I really don't feel like wasting my time doing this same analysis for more players.

YOU GET THE POINT
Can you even read?

Kyrie - Career high TS
TT - Career high TS
JR - Highest TS in the past 7 seasons
Mozgov - Career high TS
Shump - Highest TS since his Sophomore season


Wade - 56% TS without LeBron and 58% TS with LeBron including a career high of 55% FG%
Bosh - 56% TS without LeBron and 58% with LeBron including a career high of 54% FG%
Chalmers - 53% TS without LeBron and 57% TS with LeBron including a career high of 45% FG%
Mo - 51% TS without LeBron and 58% TS with LeBron including his only 2 seasons shooting over 40% from the 3.

[West-Side]

You did in the your post I quoted, dummy.

Bosh was a 24/12 player in Toronto as the #1 option

Love:
14' - 26.1 PPG,
15' - 16.4 PPG,

Let me know when you find those examples.

Wow you're a royal dipshit.
I posted those numbers to show you a HUGE decline due to LeBron's ball hogging ability. The man literally controls every possession.

Pau Gasol's stats went down as well but not as significantly.

Bosh:

From 24/11 to 19/8 to 18/8 to 16/7

Gasol:

From 19/9 to 19/10 to 18/11 to 19/10 to 17/10 on higher efficiency.

And why you ask???

LeBron's usage rating went from 33.5 to 31.5 after joining Miami.
He has Dwayne Wade, who averaged 8 APG the previous year yet this guy had the need to hold the ball 32% of every possession.

Kobe's usage rating dropped to a similar percentage (33.6 to 31.4); but the different being is VERY important, so listen carefully dummy.

LeBron joined forces with TWO players who were #1 options before; with a player like WADE whose usage rating is already high and he averaged 8 assists per game in 2009.

Kobe (besides Lamar) never had a ball handler on the Lakers; or anyone else who can create shots for others. Yet his usage % still declined when Pau joined. This demonstrates LeBron's selfishness to me.

[catch24]

Lebron has 0 Alphadog rings





Alphadog = no ring chasing or colluding

Alphadog = atleast 20 ppg or 10 rpg or 10 assists for season, playoffs, finals

Alphadog = no bail out shots to save an elimination finals game

Alphadog = no lockout season asterisks

Alphadog = no more than 1 other prime HOF team mate

Alphadog = beat atleast 3 teams with 50+ wins during your title run





leaders of Alphadog titles:

#1 Kobe - 4 ( didn't average 20+ points in 2000 nba finals )
#1 Jordan - 4 ( didn't beat enough 50+ win teams in 1991 or 1996 )
#3 Shaq - 3 ( didn't beat enough 50+ win teams in 2006 )
#3 Duncan - 3 ( lockout 1999, didn't average over 20ppg or 10 rpg in 2014 )
#4 Hakeem - 2

:oldlol: :roll:

The only way you can combat OP's stupidity is with a Kenneth post. Well done...for once.

[kennethgriffin]

Kobe did that right before the draft.



i dont think ring chasing works unless

a) the team already won a title recently

and

b) a core was already established

and

c) the team had a legit shot to win right away

and

d) the person colluding/ring chasing is a superstar himself





and even if any of these things were true. i doubt kobe had that kind of power. especially when hes not even a top 10 pick

pretty hard to force your way to LA when youre the 13th selection and wont even get to start on your new team. nore do they even really need you


i think the divac trade was initiated to clear up cap space to sign shaq.


you cant have it both ways. either kobe initiated his trade to LA without shaq involved or there was a reason LA traded their starting center and would have done the trade regardless of kobes feelings


in the end

its not even remotely close to being a collude or ring chasing moment


the situation wasnt good enough at the time

kobe wasnt good enough at the time

the team hadn't won sh*t in almost 9 years and had practically no one left from the title team

magic was retired so even the team from a year ago lost their best player

and shaq himself was a bonafide loser at the time. getting swept or missing the playoffs 5 consecutive years

[West-Side]

Can you even read?

Kyrie - Career high TS
TT - Career high TS
JR - Highest TS in the past 7 seasons
Mozgov - Career high TS
Shump - Highest TS since his Sophomore season


Wade - 56% TS without LeBron and 58% TS with LeBron including a career high of 55% FG%
Bosh - 56% TS without LeBron and 58% with LeBron including a career high of 54% FG%
Chalmers - 53% TS without LeBron and 57% TS with LeBron including a career high of 45% FG%
Mo - 51% TS without LeBron and 58% TS with LeBron including his only 2 seasons shooting over 40% from the 3.

LeBron jumped from 48% FG to like 54% himself.
He only makes role players better because he loves to control every possession. He'll demand a double team and pass it out to an open man; in that regard, he's great.

Put him next to a star player and he immediately deteriorates their value because of his style of play. You damn right that Wade, Bosh & LeBron should increase their TS% and FG% playing together; but the improvement is pretty marginal and shocking.

The turn around that both Pau & Lamar had on their efficiency by playing with Kobe is far higher and far more evident.

[aj1987]

LeBron jumped from 48% FG to like 54% himself.
He only makes role players better because he loves to control every possession. He'll demand a double team and pass it out to an open man; in that regard, he's great.
You do know that Wade shot a career high 50% FG during their first year, right? Are you implying that Wade, Bosh, Love, and Irving are roleplayers?


Put him next to a star player and he immediately deteriorates their value because of his style of play. You damn right that Wade, Bosh & LeBron should increase their TS% and FG% playing together; but the improvement is pretty marginal and shocking.
Mo Williams (dude was an All-Star) shot up from 52% - 57% - 59%. Made his ONLY ASG on the Cavs with LeBron.

Kyrie went from 53% - 58%.

Most star players do not increase drastically because they're damn good in the first place. How hard is that to understand?


The turn around that both Pau & Lamar had on their efficiency by playing with Kobe is far higher and far more evident.

Pau - 57% TS on the Grizz and 58% TS on the Lakers. 1% increase
Odom - 56% TS on the Lakers and 52% TS before that. 4% increase

TT went from 51% TS to 58% TS with LeBron.

BTW, Odom is a star player now? Why are you even bring him up? If we're including role players:

Kyrie - Career high TS
TT - Career high TS
JR - Highest TS in the past 7 seasons
Mozgov - Career high TS
Shump - Highest TS since his Sophomore season

Chalmers - 53% TS without LeBron and 57% TS with LeBron including a career high of 45% FG%
Mo - 51% TS without LeBron and 58% TS with LeBron including his only 2 seasons shooting over 40% from the 3

[Hey Yo]

Wow you're a royal dipshit.
I posted those numbers to show you a HUGE decline due to LeBron's ball hogging ability. The man literally controls every possession.

Pau Gasol's stats went down as well but not as significantly.

Bosh:

From 24/11 to 19/8 to 18/8 to 16/7

Gasol:

From 19/9 to 19/10 to 18/11 to 19/10 to 17/10 on higher efficiency.

And why you ask???

LeBron's usage rating went from 33.5 to 31.5 after joining Miami.
He has Dwayne Wade, who averaged 8 APG the previous year yet this guy had the need to hold the ball 32% of every possession.

Kobe's usage rating dropped to a similar percentage (33.6 to 31.4); but the different being is VERY important, so listen carefully dummy.

LeBron joined forces with TWO players who were #1 options before; with a player like WADE whose usage rating is already high and he averaged 8 assists per game in 2009.

Kobe (besides Lamar) never had a ball handler on the Lakers; or anyone else who can create shots for others. Yet his usage % still declined when Pau joined. This demonstrates LeBron's selfishness to me.
None of the above shows me where 1st options who become 3rd options were able to keep their PPG the same.

[GIF REACTION]

You just created your own criteria there kenneth

Mine is based off of public perception, recent results and media predictions

Yours is bullshit that has no line drawn

[Hey Yo]

i dont think ring chasing works unless

a) the team already won a title recently

and

b) a core was already established

and

c) the team had a legit shot to win right away

and

d) the person colluding/ring chasing is a superstar himself





[QUOTE]and even if any of these things were true. i doubt kobe had that kind of power. especially when hes not even a top 10 pick
He would have been the 8th pick if he allowed the Nets to draft him.


pretty hard to force your way to LA when youre the 13th selection and wont even get to start on your new team. nore do they even really need you
All that proves that he was willing to ride the pine for the 2nd best, successful franchise in the league. What organization would have the better chances at a title...LAL or NJN?



i think the divac trade was initiated to clear up cap space to sign shaq.
correct



you cant have it both ways. either kobe initiated his trade to LA without shaq involved or there was a reason LA traded their starting center and would have done the trade regardless of kobes feelings
It was known before the draft that Shaq wanted out Orlando and LAL was a team he had much interest in. That's why Kobe's camp made sure to get the word out..."I won't sign with any team but the LAL."


in the end

its not even remotely close to being a collude or ring chasing moment


the situation wasnt good enough at the time

kobe wasnt good enough at the time
It's the very definition out it. NJN with a 30-52 record the year before or 53-29, 4th seeded LAL?


the team hadn't won sh*t in almost 9 years and had practically no one left from the title team

magic was retired so even the team from a year ago lost their best player

and shaq himself was a bonafide loser at the time. getting swept or missing the playoffs 5 consecutive years
Magic was the best player the year before?? :oldlol: ....He played in 32 games, starting in 9 of them.

:oldlol: blatant lies about Shaq's history.

[West-Side]

None of the above shows me where 1st options who become 3rd options were able to keep their PPG the same.

:facepalm :hammerhead:

Ariza
(.524 & .460 with LA) (.394 in Houston)
Farmar
(44% with LA) (39% with NJ)
Fisher
(39% with LA) (34% with Dal/OKC)
Gasol
(55% with LA) (51% with Memphis)
Mihm
(49% with LA) (43% elsewhere)
Odom
(49% with LA) (43% elsewhere)
Radmanovic
(44% with LA) (41% elsewhere)
K. Brown
(55% with LA) (48% elsewhere)
L. Walton
(Starter with LA = 46%) (37% elsewhere)
Bynum
(58% with LA) (42% elsewhere)



Wade
(51% with LeBron) (49% without him)
Bosh
(51% with LeBron) (50% without him)
Chalmers
(43% with LeBron) (41% without him)
Haslem
(47% with LeBron) (49% without him)
Irving
(47% with LeBron) (45% without him)
Love
(43% with LeBron) (45% without him)
TT
(55% with LeBron) (47% without him) - He also took nearly 300 less shots last season than his previous two years without LeBron.
Varejao
(55% with LeBron) (50% without him)
Shumpert
(41% with LeBron) (39% without him)
JR Smith
(43% with LeBron) (42% without him)
M.Williams
(44% with LeBron) (42% without him)
M.Williams shot 48% the year BEFORE joining LeBron James. This player shot 41% after he left Cleveland. However, his FG% also dropped from 47% to 44% to 39% while playing with LeBron.

Why the **** are you focusing on TS%???
That includes FT% which has no affect on the impact that LeBron & Kobe has for them.


I see a MASSIVE and clear indication that Kobe improves his teammates efficiency; LeBron does too but half of those players also had the privilege of having Wade assist for them. So that efficiency could be misleading.

Only players that have a clear improvement from playing with LeBron is TT & Varejao; both players haven't taken more than 400 shots in a season with him on the team.

TT entered the league at 20 years of age; so his efficiency increase could largely be impacted by his progress as a basketball player.

Varejao takes about as many shots as Ronny Turiaf who shot 55% in 07' playing next to Kobe.

Varejao .555 on 200 shots (2015)
Turiaf .547 on 268 shots (2007)

Those are the ONLY players that got a huge boost from playing with LeBron from the players highlighted.

:confusedshrug:

[kennethgriffin]

He would have been the 8th pick if he allowed the Nets to draft him.


All that proves that he was willing to ride the pine for the 2nd best, successful franchise in the league. What organization would have the better chances at a title...LAL or NJN?



correct



It was known before the draft that Shaq wanted out Orlando and LAL was a team he had much interest in. That's why Kobe's camp made sure to get the word out..."I won't sign with any team but the LAL."


It's the very definition out it. NJN with a 30-52 record the year before or 53-29, 4th seeded LAL?


Magic was the best player the year before?? :oldlol: ....He played in 32 games, starting in 9 of them.

:oldlol: blatant lies about Shaq's history.


i'l say it again

to count as ring chasing.


a) the team already won a title recently ( LA didnt, Miami did )

and

b) a core was already established ( LA's championship core was kobe/shaq. 2 guys who werent even on LA and kobe was 1 half of, Miami already had prime HOF wade who won a ring, and prime HOF bosh )

and

c) the team had a legit shot to win right away ( LA had no chance at getting by utah, sanantonio. which is why they were swept, miami made it to the finals their first year with wade as clear lead dog )

and

d) the person colluding/ring chasing is a superstar himself ( kobe was barely a 6th man and, lebron was in his absolute prime )




you admitted yourself that the the reason LA made the trade was to clear up room for shaq. not because kobe demanded a trade there



in the end

its not even remotely close to being a collude or ring chasing moment


the situation wasnt good enough at the time

kobe wasnt good enough at the time

the team hadn't won sh*t in almost 9 years and had practically no one left from the title team

shaq himself was a bonafide loser at the time. getting swept or missing the playoffs 5 consecutive years




you lose

:lol

[Wade's Rings]

Lebron has 0 Alphadog rings





Alphadog = no ring chasing or colluding

Alphadog = atleast 20 ppg or 10 rpg or 10 assists for season, playoffs, finals

Alphadog = no bail out shots to save an elimination finals game

Alphadog = no lockout season asterisks

Alphadog = no more than 1 other prime HOF team mate

Alphadog = beat atleast 3 teams with 50+ wins during your title run





leaders of Alphadog titles:

#1 Kobe - 4 ( didn't average 20+ points in 2000 nba finals )
#1 Jordan - 4 ( didn't beat enough 50+ win teams in 1991 or 1996 )
#3 Shaq - 3 ( didn't beat enough 50+ win teams in 2006 )
#3 Duncan - 3 ( lockout 1999, didn't average over 20ppg or 10 rpg in 2014 )
#4 Hakeem - 2


Kobe has 0 Alpha Dog Rings, he didn't beat ebough 60+ Win Teams :(

[kennethgriffin]

Kobe has 0 Alpha Dog Rings, he didn't beat ebough 60+ Win Teams :(


thats hardly a qualifier for beating a legit team


espn even used my criteria as what counts as a legit playoff win


http://s12.postimg.org/fiwmzsvn1/CIu6g_DI.jpg

[Hey Yo]

Why do keep changing the premise of your initial post I quoted?


Originally Posted by West-Side
Bosh went from 24ppg to 18.7
Love went from 26ppg to 16

Now show me examples of a clear first option to becoming 3rd option the following season w/o having his PPG avg. drop. If it's normal for that not to happen then you should have no problems finding past examples.

[West-Side]

Why do keep changing the premise of your initial post I quoted?



Now show me examples of a clear first option to becoming 3rd option the following season w/o having his PPG avg. drop. If it's normal for that not to happen then you should have no problems finding past examples.

:facepalm It's common sense that statistically your numbers will drop.
However, the drop is rather significant mostly because LeBron is a ball hog.

A better way to determine their impact is by looking at the efficiency of their teammates before & after they joined them. I've already took the time to show you that.

[West-Side]

thats hardly a qualifier for beating a legit team


espn even used my criteria as what counts as a legit playoff win


http://s12.postimg.org/fiwmzsvn1/CIu6g_DI.jpg

Are you telling me that Kobe eliminated more 50+ win teams from 2008-2010 with Pau Gasol & Lamar Odom than LeBron James has in his ENTIRE career? :roll:

Holy shit.

[Wade's Rings]

thats hardly a qualifier for beating a legit team


espn even used my criteria as what counts as a legit playoff win


http://s12.postimg.org/fiwmzsvn1/CIu6g_DI.jpg

So beating a lesser team is the better qualifier :lol

Like I said 0 Alpha Dog Rings because he didn't beat a 60+ Win Team :(

[GimmeThat]

assuming that the original calculation stands true by assuming the level of difficulty to be equal from both conferences.

in 2012 the Heat had a total rating of 12.1 versus 8.4

if OPs intention on rating underdog teams was to exclude the best player rating from total rating and only utilize teammate rating.

by implying that even if the best players were to switch team, the results would still be the same. or that the best player not just won the finals, but was also on the team with the supporting cast being ranked lower in two teams.

it still comes down to better best, better teammate win. better player, lower teammate win, lower player, better teammate win, and lower player, lower teammate win.

I suppose we may argue which is more impressive in the better player, lower teammate, or lower player better teammate win. but then that would eventually still have the term win share being drawn into the discussion.

means that I don't really have anything new to offer I suppose.

[Goro]

Are you telling me that Kobe eliminated more 50+ win teams from 2008-2010 with Pau Gasol & Lamar Odom than LeBron James has in his ENTIRE career? :roll:

Holy shit.
:oldlol:

[kennethgriffin]

So beating a lesser team is the better qualifier :lol

Like I said 0 Alpha Dog Rings because he didn't beat a 60+ Win Team :(


50+ win teams is the bar

espn said so

its also the qualifier for mvp consideration



if you go over the bar. why stop at 60+.. why not make it 66+ and so on..


then youre just cherry picking


plus the reason there were less 60+ win teams and more 50+ win teams was due to parity and depth


if a great team is facing 50+ win caliber teams 80% of the time when theyre playing their western conference affiliates. then the chances of garnering 60+ wins for any team is drastically reduced...


it actually becomes more plausible for a leastern conference rep to run into a 60 win team since 90% of the teams in the east are trash and 1-2 teams can beat up on the rest


:lol


50+ wins is the bar because 9-10 teams can achieve that total in one conference if theyre 9-10 deep

[ArbitraryWater]

LeBron = GOAT, won a title with a team that didnt even win 50 games.. never been done before or after.

[aj1987]

So much cherry picking BS in the post. :roll:



Ariza
(.524 & .460 with LA) (.394 in Houston)
Aria shot 54% BEFORE he came to LA with the Magic. 52.4% in 24 games. In a full season, dude shot 46%.


Farmar
(44% with LA) (39% with NJ)
43% in with Kobe and 41% without.


Fisher
(39% with LA) (34% with Dal/OKC)
Lets not forget that he shot 40% with GSW and Utah. Not to mention the completely wrong percentages for Dallas and OKC, which is at 37%.


Gasol
(55% with LA) (51% with Memphis)
52% WITH LA and 51% elsewhere. Where are you even getting your stats from?


Mihm
(49% with LA) (43% elsewhere)
48.5% is 49% and 43.9% is 43%? Wow! That's some selective rounding.


L. Walton
(Starter with LA = 46%) (37% elsewhere)
Why? Doesn't suit your agenda other wise?
43% and 39%. Again, you've got the numbers wrong.


Bynum
(58% with LA) (42% elsewhere)
Yeah, as a cripple.


Wade
(51% with LeBron) (49% without him)
51% WITH and 48% without.


Bosh
(51% with LeBron) (50% without him)
51% with and 48% without.


Chalmers
(43% with LeBron) (41% without him)
44% with LeBron and 41% without.


M.Williams
(44% with LeBron) (42% without him)
M.Williams shot 48% the year BEFORE joining LeBron James. This player shot 41% after he left Cleveland. However, his FG% also dropped from 47% to 44% to 39% while playing with LeBron.
The only two times in his career he shot over 40% from 3, he did it with LeBron. The only ASG he made, he made it with LeBron.

46% with LeBron and 43% without LeBron.


Why the **** are you focusing on TS%???
That includes FT% which has no affect on the impact that LeBron & Kobe has for them.
3 point shooting? Most of those players are 3pt shooters. It needs to reflect that as well.

Kyrie, Mario, Mo, etc. all shot career highs from the 3 WITH LeBron.


I see a MASSIVE and clear indication that Kobe improves his teammates efficiency; LeBron does too but half of those players also had the privilege of having Wade assist for them. So that efficiency could be misleading.
Like Pau for the Lakers? Let's not act like Pau wasn't/isn't a terrific passer. Wade averaged like 5 APG with LeBron and Pau averaged 4 with Kobe.


Only players that have a clear improvement from playing with LeBron is TT & Varejao; both players haven't taken more than 400 shots in a season with him on the team.
Chalmers? Mo?


TT entered the league at 20 years of age; so his efficiency increase could largely be impacted by his progress as a basketball player.

Varejao takes about as many shots as Ronny Turiaf who shot 55% in 07' playing next to Kobe.

Varejao .555 on 200 shots (2015)
Turiaf .547 on 268 shots (2007)

Those are the ONLY players that got a huge boost from playing with LeBron from the players highlighted.

:confusedshrug:

Most of the players who saw decreases in percentages without Kobe were the ones who either came to the Lakers during their primes and left as cripples or were basically done by then.

You want to use context for Kobe and completely ignore it for LeBron? :biggums:


:facepalm It's common sense that statistically your numbers will drop.
However, the drop is rather significant mostly because LeBron is a ball hog.

A better way to determine their impact is by looking at the efficiency of their teammates before & after they joined them. I've already took the time to show you that.
:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

Another absolutely moronic post. As I explained before:

He went from being the #1 option to the #3 option. Dude was playing with 2 others who are MUCH better than him and take ~18 shots a game. Where was his defense and rebounding?

The only way Heat center Chris Bosh will see himself playing in the post again is by watching old highlight videos.

Bosh made it even clearer Saturday his days of living on the block are gone.

As in R.I.P to his post game.

"I don't bang anybody anymore," Bosh said. "It's a tired thing for me. It's not my strength and I understand that."

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-basketball/24571850/heats-chris-bosh-on-playing-in-the-post-i-dont-bang-anymore

Gaol went from averaging 21 PPG to 19 PPG. Heck dude averaged a career high in RPG the previous season. 14 PPG in '13 to 17 and 19 in '14 & '15.Same with Lamar Odom. Dude went from 17 PPG with the Heat to 14 PPG on the Lakers.


LeBron = GOAT, won a title with a team that didnt even win 50 games.. never been done before or after.
:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[Hey Yo]

Get a body bag for west-side.

[kennethgriffin]

Get a body bag for west-side.


kobe got so many role players paid big time contracts compared to their actual value

nobody should argue kobes effect on teammates

its clearly better than lebrons



lebrons suffocated his teammates

kobes made guys like turiaf and farmar seem legit

[lil jahlil]

So much cherry picking BS in the post. :roll:


Aria shot 54% BEFORE he came to LA with the Magic. 52.4% in 24 games. In a full season, dude shot 46%.


43% in with Kobe and 41% without.


Lets not forget that he shot 40% with GSW and Utah. Not to mention the completely wrong percentages for Dallas and OKC, which is at 37%.


52% WITH LA and 51% elsewhere. Where are you even getting your stats from?


48.5% is 49% and 43.9% is 43%? Wow! That's some selective rounding.


Why? Doesn't suit your agenda other wise?
43% and 39%. Again, you've got the numbers wrong.


Yeah, as a cripple.


51% WITH and 48% without.


51% with and 48% without.


44% with LeBron and 41% without.


The only two times in his career he shot over 40% from 3, he did it with LeBron. The only ASG he made, he made it with LeBron.

46% with LeBron and 43% without LeBron.


3 point shooting? Most of those players are 3pt shooters. It needs to reflect that as well.

Kyrie, Mario, Mo, etc. all shot career highs from the 3 WITH LeBron.


Like Pau for the Lakers? Let's not act like Pau wasn't/isn't a terrific passer. Wade averaged like 5 APG with LeBron and Pau averaged 4 with Kobe.


Chalmers? Mo?



Most of the players who saw decreases in percentages without Kobe were the ones who either came to the Lakers during their primes and left as cripples or were basically done by then.

You want to use context for Kobe and completely ignore it for LeBron? :biggums:


:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

Another absolutely moronic post. As I explained before:

He went from being the #1 option to the #3 option. Dude was playing with 2 others who are MUCH better than him and take ~18 shots a game. Where was his defense and rebounding?

The only way Heat center Chris Bosh will see himself playing in the post again is by watching old highlight videos.

Bosh made it even clearer Saturday his days of living on the block are gone.

As in R.I.P to his post game.

"I don't bang anybody anymore," Bosh said. "It's a tired thing for me. It's not my strength and I understand that."

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-basketball/24571850/heats-chris-bosh-on-playing-in-the-post-i-dont-bang-anymore

Gaol went from averaging 21 PPG to 19 PPG. Heck dude averaged a career high in RPG the previous season. 14 PPG in '13 to 17 and 19 in '14 & '15.Same with Lamar Odom. Dude went from 17 PPG with the Heat to 14 PPG on the Lakers.


:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm
:applause:

[riseagainst]

Are you telling me that Kobe eliminated more 50+ win teams from 2008-2010 with Pau Gasol & Lamar Odom than LeBron James has in his ENTIRE career? :roll:

Holy shit.

:lol
:roll:

[riseagainst]

LeBron = GOAT, won a title with a team that didnt even win 50 games.. never been done before or after.

:roll:
:lol

[West-Side]

So much cherry picking BS in the post. :roll:


Aria shot 54% BEFORE he came to LA with the Magic. 52.4% in 24 games. In a full season, dude shot 46%.


43% in with Kobe and 41% without.


Lets not forget that he shot 40% with GSW and Utah. Not to mention the completely wrong percentages for Dallas and OKC, which is at 37%.


52% WITH LA and 51% elsewhere. Where are you even getting your stats from?


48.5% is 49% and 43.9% is 43%? Wow! That's some selective rounding.


Why? Doesn't suit your agenda other wise?
43% and 39%. Again, you've got the numbers wrong.


Yeah, as a cripple.


51% WITH and 48% without.


51% with and 48% without.


44% with LeBron and 41% without.


The only two times in his career he shot over 40% from 3, he did it with LeBron. The only ASG he made, he made it with LeBron.

46% with LeBron and 43% without LeBron.


3 point shooting? Most of those players are 3pt shooters. It needs to reflect that as well.

Kyrie, Mario, Mo, etc. all shot career highs from the 3 WITH LeBron.


Like Pau for the Lakers? Let's not act like Pau wasn't/isn't a terrific passer. Wade averaged like 5 APG with LeBron and Pau averaged 4 with Kobe.


Chalmers? Mo?



Most of the players who saw decreases in percentages without Kobe were the ones who either came to the Lakers during their primes and left as cripples or were basically done by then.

You want to use context for Kobe and completely ignore it for LeBron? :biggums:


:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

Another absolutely moronic post. As I explained before:

He went from being the #1 option to the #3 option. Dude was playing with 2 others who are MUCH better than him and take ~18 shots a game. Where was his defense and rebounding?

The only way Heat center Chris Bosh will see himself playing in the post again is by watching old highlight videos.

Bosh made it even clearer Saturday his days of living on the block are gone.

As in R.I.P to his post game.

"I don't bang anybody anymore," Bosh said. "It's a tired thing for me. It's not my strength and I understand that."

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-basketball/24571850/heats-chris-bosh-on-playing-in-the-post-i-dont-bang-anymore

Gaol went from averaging 21 PPG to 19 PPG. Heck dude averaged a career high in RPG the previous season. 14 PPG in '13 to 17 and 19 in '14 & '15.Same with Lamar Odom. Dude went from 17 PPG with the Heat to 14 PPG on the Lakers.


:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm


Okay dipshit, give me a day or so and I'll perform this analysis using a spreadsheet. Since you want precise figures.

I'll even expand this comparison further by adding a few more of their teammates.

Also, are you dumb or what?
You're bitching at me about not using 3PT% but I'm using FG%.
It REFLECTS their OVERALL efficiency you moron.

Anyways give me a few days to destroy your ass, in the meanwhile, have Hey Ya eat your ass some more.
LOL @ this dipshit adjusting my numbers by 1% up/down because I've obviously rounded them.

Why even waste your time writing such a long ass post with absolutely zero substance in it.

[Wade's Rings]

50+ win teams is the bar

espn said so

its also the qualifier for mvp consideration



if you go over the bar. why stop at 60+.. why not make it 66+ and so on..


then youre just cherry picking


plus the reason there were less 60+ win teams and more 50+ win teams was due to parity and depth


if a great team is facing 50+ win caliber teams 80% of the time when theyre playing their western conference affiliates. then the chances of garnering 60+ wins for any team is drastically reduced...


it actually becomes more plausible for a leastern conference rep to run into a 60 win team since 90% of the teams in the east are trash and 1-2 teams can beat up on the rest


:lol


50+ wins is the bar because 9-10 teams can achieve that total in one conference if theyre 9-10 deep

So now your using ESPN to support your argument.

How is it cherry picking to say Real Alphas beat 60+ Win Teams? Cherry picking is saying 58+ Win Teams, 64+ Win Teams, etc.

Once again Kobe 0 Alpha Rings (Not enough 60+ Win teams beat in 2009 & 2010)

[West-Side]

Bynum was a cripple playing with Kobe, too.
He was constantly injured and had several surgeries while with LA. :oldlol:

Anyways, I'll come back tomorrow with some numbers for you in this thread.
I'm going out shortly, so can't do it at the moment.

[Hey Yo]

Howard avg. 23ppg with Orlando 2010-11

2yrs later with Kobe, 17.1ppg

[Wade's Rings]

Howard avg. 23ppg with Orlando 2010-11

2yrs later with Kobe, 17.1ppg

:biggums:

2 Years later? Wasn't that before his back injury?

[riseagainst]

Howard avg. 23ppg with Orlando 2010-11

2yrs later with Kobe, 17.1ppg


are we just gonna ignore back injuries?

:lol

[West-Side]

Howard avg. 23ppg with Orlando 2010-11

2yrs later with Kobe, 17.1ppg

Pretty much the same he's averaging with Houston [18.3 & 15.8].
Howard didn't fit with LA thought.
His lack of shooting clogged the lanes for Pau and basically made Pau a mid-range player.

[Hey Yo]

are we just gonna ignore back injuries?

:lol
Played 76gms while avg. just under 36mpg.

[West-Side]

are we just gonna ignore back injuries?

:lol

I don't know how he'd forget considering that was the most discussed thing in the summer before LA finally acquired him. :oldlol:

Howard is putting similar numbers with Harden as he did with Kobe, Nash & Pau. Plus, you can tell he just isn't the same player he was prior to his back injury.

[West-Side]

Played 76gms while avg. just under 36mpg.

Do you even watch basketball, like, have you watched a single Laker game that year? If you didn't, here's a clue:

Howard lost some of his athleticism after the surgery.
Why don't you tell us his numbers with Houston?

I bet they are mightily similar to LA's.

[Bankaii]

Do you even watch basketball, like, have you watched a single Laker game that year? If you didn't, here's a clue:

Howard lost some of his athleticism after the surgery.
Why don't you tell us his numbers with Houston?

I bet they are mightily similar to LA's.
You're such a dumbass. Yo cherry pick stats with no context but when people do the same against you you dismiss it and bitch. AJ just roasted your ass and say "give me a few days". What kind of bullshit is that you're still posting.

On the topic of your dumbass post, when you compare Dwights numbers from LA/ Houston to Orlando the biggest difference is his FGA, not injuries idiot. When he went to LA he went from being a 1st option to s second option and took less shots and thus less points. He has the numbers in Houston because he's taking the same amount of shots.

Kobe has nothing to do it idiot. AJ and I both already showed Kobe's teammates having their best seasons without Kobe. And you ducked my last post like a bitch because you had no response.

Again, how stupid are you?

[Hey Yo]

Do you even watch basketball, like, have you watched a single Laker game that year? If you didn't, here's a clue:

Howard lost some of his athleticism after the surgery.
Why don't you tell us his numbers with Houston?

I bet they are mightily similar to LA's.
First year with Houston, 2mpg less and 1 ppg more in 5 less games played than the year before with LAL

[riseagainst]

You're such a dumbass. Yo cherry pick stats with no context but when people do the same against you you dismiss it and bitch. AJ just roasted your ass and say "give me a few days". What kind of bullshit is that you're still posting.

On the topic of your dumbass post, when you compare Dwights numbers from LA/ Houston to Orlando the biggest difference is his FGA, not injuries idiot. When he went to LA he went from being a 1st option to s second option and took less shots and thus less points. He has the numbers in Houston because he's taking the same amount of shots.

Kobe has nothing to do it idiot. AJ and I both already showed Kobe's teammates having their best seasons without Kobe. And you ducked my last post like a bitch because you had no response.

Again, how stupid are you?

Pau got a bunch of career highs right when he started playing with Kobe.
Same with Lamar Odom and Bynum.
what are you talking about?

[GIF REACTION]

kobe

LEBRON

[Nick Young]

Howard avg. 23ppg with Orlando 2010-11

2yrs later with Kobe, 17.1ppg
That's because Dwight Howard is an offensive scrub with a game resembling Ben Wallace who thinks he's Kareem Abdul Jabbar.

Kobe and Nash tried their best to turn Dwight in to the defensive hustle role player that he is but Dwight forced the issue and sucked doing it.

[Hey Yo]

That's because Dwight Howard is an offensive scrub with a game resembling Ben Wallace who thinks he's Kareem Abdul Jabbar.

Kobe and Nash tried their best to turn Dwight in to the defensive hustle role player that he is but Dwight forced the issue and sucked doing it.
Then why this:


http://www.insidesocal.com/tomhoffarth/files/2013/06/lakers_billboard_stayd12_dwight_howard_062713b.jpg

[Bankaii]

Pau got a bunch of career highs right when he started playing with Kobe.
Same with Lamar Odom and Bynum.
what are you talking about?
Pau: Highest PPG of RS and PO in Memphis before Lakers/Kobe
Odom: Highest PPG of RS in Miami/Clippers before Lakers/Kobe
Bynum had his best year in 2012 when him, Kobe, and Pau all missed some games with injuries. And I'm not even including other key players like Ariza, Artest, and Fisher. But I never mentioned him so... what are you talking about?

[aj1987]

Okay dipshit, give me a day or so and I'll perform this analysis using a spreadsheet. Since you want precise figures.

I'll even expand this comparison further by adding a few more of their teammates.
I'll wait.


Also, are you dumb or what?
You're bitching at me about not using 3PT% but I'm using FG%.
It REFLECTS their OVERALL efficiency you moron.
Are you for real? I mean, do you even math, bro?

Player A - 8-15 (1-3 from the 3) and scores 17 points
Player B - 8-15 (4-7 from the 3) and scored 20 points

Can you please help me figure who's more efficient?

****ing idiot.


Anyways give me a few days to destroy your ass, in the meanwhile, have Hey Ya eat your ass some more.
LOL @ this dipshit adjusting my numbers by 1% up/down because I've obviously rounded them.

Why even waste your time writing such a long ass post with absolutely zero substance in it.

Says the retard who can't even do basic math. You literally rounded 0.5 up to 1 and rounded DOWN 0.9. How ****ing stupid is that?

Judging by you math skills, you're gonna need a couple of months to do all that shit.

[knicksman]

Only a fakkit would ever dare what bran did. Colluding in your prime. Lol im not surprised most of his stans are betas too.

[MellowYellow]

who even cares, okc was too young and Ray Allen saved Lebron's career. Other than that he has consistently underachieved with stacked rosters.

[Straight_Ballin]

Only a fakkit would ever dare what bran did. Colluding in your prime. Lol im not surprised most of his stans are betas too.

Didn't Jason Terry shit all over his horrible defense?

[20Four]

Only a fakkit would ever dare what bran did. Colluding in your prime. Lol im not surprised most of his stans are betas too.
http://i.imgur.com/PfP2i66.gif

[AnaheimLakers24]

5 rings as the player with the biggest wang

[riseagainst]

5 rings as the player with the biggest wang


:lol

[GIF REACTION]

5 rings as the player with the biggest wang
Lebron only has 2 rings though

[aj1987]

Okay dipshit, give me a day or so and I'll perform this analysis using a spreadsheet. Since you want precise figures.

I'll even expand this comparison further by adding a few more of their teammates.

Also, are you dumb or what?
You're bitching at me about not using 3PT% but I'm using FG%.
It REFLECTS their OVERALL efficiency you moron.

Anyways give me a few days to destroy your ass, in the meanwhile, have Hey Ya eat your ass some more.
LOL @ this dipshit adjusting my numbers by 1% up/down because I've obviously rounded them.

Why even waste your time writing such a long ass post with absolutely zero substance in it.

Okay dipshit, give me a day or so and I'll perform this analysis using a spreadsheet. Since you want precise figures.

I'll even expand this comparison further by adding a few more of their teammates.
I'll wait.


Also, are you dumb or what?
You're bitching at me about not using 3PT% but I'm using FG%.
It REFLECTS their OVERALL efficiency you moron.
Are you for real? I mean, do you even math, bro?

Player A - 8-15 (1-3 from the 3) and scores 17 points
Player B - 8-15 (4-7 from the 3) and scored 20 points

Can you please help me figure who's more efficient?

****ing idiot.


Anyways give me a few days to destroy your ass, in the meanwhile, have Hey Ya eat your ass some more.
LOL @ this dipshit adjusting my numbers by 1% up/down because I've obviously rounded them.

Why even waste your time writing such a long ass post with absolutely zero substance in it.

Says the retard who can't even do basic math. You literally rounded 0.5 up to 1 and rounded DOWN 0.9. How ****ing stupid is that?

Judging by you math skills, you're gonna need a couple of months to do all that shit.


How is the spreadsheet going? Hit me up or your 3rd grade math teacher if you need any help with the calculations. :cheers:

[GimmeThat]

Then why this:


http://www.insidesocal.com/tomhoffarth/files/2013/06/lakers_billboard_stayd12_dwight_howard_062713b.jpg


Because Dwight/Kobe/Co. could have had 3-4 mil players starting on the team. If they had simply found enough length with dribbling skills at the 3 position to have Pau off the bench.

Sometimes, the starter is just the indication of the coache's unwillingness in giving up the baton.

[The Iron Fist]

Why does Kobe even need one of these?
http://images.custommade.com/AVUIyj9TCsZSy-YNekhjwHQXnkc=/custommade-photosets/9188/9188.147650.jpg