View Full Version : 1987 Lakers: Imagine if Lebron or Kobe had this team and played against that shit WC
DaOldLion
09-23-2015, 07:06 PM
Magic had
All star SF putting up 20/6/2 in the regular season and 24/6/4 on 59% in the playoffs
DPOY & obviously first team all nba defensive SG coming off the bench
the starting shooting guard putting up 17/4/3
All star Center (KAJ) putting up 19 & 9
future all star and all defensive player/ iron man AC Green
playing against
a 37 win team in the first round, a 42 win team in the second round and a 39 win team in the Western Conference finals.. only had to play one team over 42 wins in order to win the title..
seems like a pretty big double standard that Magic gets to play with a team full of all stars and the DPOY while playing against lottery teams all through the conference playoffs and gets 100% credit for his ring while if guys like Kobe and Lebron play with one all star and don't play 50 teams every series they get blasted..
SouBeachTalents
09-23-2015, 07:08 PM
:applause:
The_Pharcyde
09-23-2015, 07:21 PM
true to an extent
while I'm not an idiot and give Lebron full credit for his titles, the east was just as weak during lebrons prime as the west was back then.
you still have to beat the cream of the crop from the other conference in order to get the gold ball, there is your difference in the argument
both have the prerequisite of beating their conference consistently but the other won the whole thing 3 more times than the other option
But both did benefit having played on the significantly easier conference
Rocketswin2013
09-23-2015, 07:28 PM
true to an extent
while I'm not an idiot and give Lebron full credit for his titles, the east was just as weak during lebrons prime as the west was back then.
you still have to beat the cream of the crop from the other conference in order to get the gold ball, there is your difference in the argument
both have the prerequisite of beating their conference consistently but the other won the whole thing 3 more times than the other option
But both did benefit having played on the significantly easier conference
Which years of LeBron's prime? You have to look at where the strengths of those teams were. The 80's West with a bunch of atrocious defenses and gimmicky offensive players leading them. Going against elite defenses is much tougher.
Hey Yo
09-23-2015, 07:56 PM
Magic had
All star SF putting up 20/6/2 in the regular season and 24/6/4 on 59% in the playoffs
DPOY & obviously first team all nba defensive SG coming off the bench
the starting shooting guard putting up 17/4/3
All star Center (KAJ) putting up 19 & 9
future all star and all defensive player/ iron man AC Green
playing against
a 37 win team in the first round, a 42 win team in the second round and a 39 win team in the Western Conference finals.. only had to play one team over 42 wins in order to win the title..
seems like a pretty big double standard that Magic gets to play with a team full of all stars and the DPOY while playing against lottery teams all through the conference playoffs and gets 100% credit for his ring while if guys like Kobe and Lebron play with one all star and don't play 50 teams every series they get blasted..
Mentioned this many times before on here
People rag on the teams LeBron has beaten in the East to get to the Finals and win..... but no 3 come close to being a combined 10gms under .500 like Magic faced in 1987.
Magic went to 9 Finals in like his first 11 or 12yrs but only beat 13....50+ win teams in the postseason.
His all-star team faced horrible division foes and a horrible conference his entire career.
Yet he's suppose to be ranked in the top 5 all-time while having no jumpshot and not knowing how to play defense?
overrated
SouBeachTalents
09-23-2015, 08:00 PM
Magic gets a lot of passes that other players don't. He played with one of the greatest centers of all time, but his accomplishments aren't dismissed like Kobe's were with Shaq. And he played in an absolutely abysmal conference, yet his Finals runs aren't diminished like LeBron's are
The_Pharcyde
09-23-2015, 08:05 PM
Which years of LeBron's prime? You have to look at where the strengths of those teams were. The 80's West with a bunch of atrocious defenses and gimmicky offensive players leading them. Going against elite defenses is much tougher.
I believe Lebrons absolute prime is 2012-2015
up until that point Lebron put up massive numbers but as far as pure domination of the game I think it is the years I mentioned
The same way Jordan from 87-90 has monster numbers but 91-93 is the better version of Mike.
I think 2011 weathered Lebron and polished his overall greatness, and it unlocked him to win the title
while the 80's was garbage the east during Lebrons years were cluttered with injuries and short lived teams in the Pacers and Bulls
neither had to battle much adversity, they were clearly the best team.
it was their own mental approach which dictated whether they would win or not.
but like I said in my original post, the difference is that Magic won most of his opportunities in the finals, which tips the scale in his favor
yes they beat garbage in their conference but they were validated by beating the best from the east
KevinNYC
09-23-2015, 08:17 PM
Magic had
All star SF putting up 20/6/2 in the regular season and 24/6/4 on 59% in the playoffs
That SF and most of the other benefiting from Magic running the show. That 1987 team was a team built to play with Magic and play his game.
Legends66NBA7
09-23-2015, 08:24 PM
True. Magic should have just quit and become a bum.
Why even play basketball ?
Hey Yo
09-23-2015, 08:27 PM
Magic gets a lot of passes that other players don't. He played with one of the greatest centers of all time, but his accomplishments aren't dismissed like Kobe's were with Shaq. And he played in an absolutely abysmal conference, yet his Finals runs aren't diminished like LeBron's are
1991 when interviewed before game 2 of the Finals in Chicago.
CHICAGO — Magic Johnson would have returned to Michigan State rather than play for the Chicago Bulls.
"I'd have stayed in school," he said here Tuesday, standing alone outside Gate 3 1/2 of Chicago Stadium, the house that could have been his. "A coin toss changed the course of my whole life."
Chicago called heads in a 1979 coin flip with Los Angeles for the No. 1 pick in the NBA college draft. It came up tails.
Johnson signed with the Lakers after his sophomore year of college and proceeded to win five championships. The Bulls picked second, took UCLA's David Greenwood and have won no championships.
"I wouldn't have played here," Johnson said on the eve of Game 2 of the NBA finals between his team and the team that could have been his. "The only reason I came out was to play with Kareem and the Lakers."
_______
The above clearly states that he didn't want to try to build the Bulls (or any other like team) from the ground up. He wanted HOF help right away.
http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/18462/magic-johnson-sought-elite-teammates-too
kennethgriffin
09-23-2015, 08:36 PM
i've made many good cases for kobe over magic and bird
i'm looked at as a troll though
so ... no comment
Hey Yo
09-23-2015, 08:49 PM
Kobe basically copied Magic.......didn't want to try to build a team from the ground up.
He wanted to go to a team that was already playoff ready and wanted to sell some shoes at the same time.
DonDadda59
09-23-2015, 08:54 PM
LeBron shoots 35-39% FG in the finals while Darren Daye wins FMVP.
Bean shoots 6-24 in game 7 but somehow still wins a championship and FMVP despite his teammates getting it done.
TheBigVeto
09-23-2015, 08:55 PM
Magic had
All star SF putting up 20/6/2 in the regular season and 24/6/4 on 59% in the playoffs
DPOY & obviously first team all nba defensive SG coming off the bench
the starting shooting guard putting up 17/4/3
All star Center (KAJ) putting up 19 & 9
future all star and all defensive player/ iron man AC Green
playing against
a 37 win team in the first round, a 42 win team in the second round and a 39 win team in the Western Conference finals.. only had to play one team over 42 wins in order to win the title..
seems like a pretty big double standard that Magic gets to play with a team full of all stars and the DPOY while playing against lottery teams all through the conference playoffs and gets 100% credit for his ring while if guys like Kobe and Lebron play with one all star and don't play 50 teams every series they get blasted..
Magic is better than Kobe dawg. Deal wit it.
Although the real alpha of that Lakers team is the GOAT Kareem. Don't ever forget that.
DaOldLion
09-23-2015, 09:06 PM
LeBron shoots 35-39% FG in the finals while Darren Daye wins FMVP.
Bean shoots 6-24 in game 7 but somehow still wins a championship and FMVP despite his teammates getting it done.
magic johnson was the 5th leading scorer on his team in the 82 finals and was second in assist
won fmvp
SouBeachTalents
09-23-2015, 09:08 PM
magic johnson was the 5th leading scorer on his team in the 82 finals and was second in assist
won fmvp
While that is true, who else would you have given it to that year? As for Finals MVP's, I feel his balance out since he robbed Kareem in '80 but was then robbed himself in '88 by Worthy
Psileas
09-23-2015, 09:13 PM
Magic had
All star SF putting up 20/6/2 in the regular season and 24/6/4 on 59% in the playoffs
DPOY & obviously first team all nba defensive SG coming off the bench
the starting shooting guard putting up 17/4/3
All star Center (KAJ) putting up 19 & 9
future all star and all defensive player/ iron man AC Green
playing against
a 37 win team in the first round, a 42 win team in the second round and a 39 win team in the Western Conference finals.. only had to play one team over 42 wins in order to win the title..
seems like a pretty big double standard that Magic gets to play with a team full of all stars and the DPOY while playing against lottery teams all through the conference playoffs and gets 100% credit for his ring while if guys like Kobe and Lebron play with one all star and don't play 50 teams every series they get blasted..
Αll this is good and nice (hopefully, everyone has realized that the '87 Lakers were one of the deepest and greatest teams ever), but:
1) You didn't tell us which standard should be the correct one. Should Magic be penalized for not having faced enough elite teams in that postseason or should LeBron's trips to the Finals be held to a higher esteem?
2) Lots of people who talk about double standards fail to recognize that very often the people who hold the X standard are not the same with the ones who hold the opposite one. How many really hold this double standard? Magic isn't really that much discussed - most NBA boards, including this, are too scorer-centered to be bothered with players who were elite in other ways - and neither are the '87 Lakers. Plus, their playoff competition level has been mentioned plenty of times. On the other hand, there are tons of people who respect LeBron's playoffs regardless of opponent, while there are trolls and haters who will try to diminish him in absurd ways, but I don't think anyone should be taking these people seriously - much like I do for anti-Wilt trolls, who I almost completely ignore.
DonDadda59
09-23-2015, 09:13 PM
magic johnson was the 5th leading scorer on his team in the 82 finals and was second in assist
won fmvp
16/11/8 (53% FG). No Laker deserved FMVP over him.
GOAT Laker gonna GOAT Laker.
But if he had won putting up 15.6 PPG on 37% FG doe. That's true greatness.
:yaohappy:
NZStreetBaller
09-23-2015, 09:31 PM
Bird>magic
SamuraiSWISH
09-23-2015, 09:35 PM
I've always held this against Magic. The 80s West was putrid for a time back then akin to the 2000s and 2010s Eastern Conference. A few years here and there being exceptions for both. But we don't call Magic out for his faults. For being entitled, cowardly uncompetitive and manipulating his way to a more stacked destination in LA as a rookie. Even though we give Kobe and Miami LeBron fits for this behavior. Or the weak conferences he went through that we bring up in regards to LeBron all the time. We count all his rings as 1st option caliber unlike we do for Kobe.
TheBigVeto
09-23-2015, 09:51 PM
i've made many good cases for kobe over magic and bird
i'm looked at as a troll though
so ... no comment
We don't look at you as a troll.
We consider you as what you truly are, a big moronic kobetard.
Hope you feel better.
TheBigVeto
09-23-2015, 09:53 PM
I've always held this against Magic. The 80s West was putrid for a time back then akin to the 2000s and 2010s Eastern Conference. A few years here and there being exceptions for both. But we don't call Magic out for his faults. For being entitled, cowardly uncompetitive and manipulating his way to a more stacked destination in LA as a rookie. Even though we give Kobe and Miami LeBron fits for this behavior. Or the weak conferences he went through that we bring up in regards to LeBron all the time. We count all his rings as 1st option caliber unlike we do for Kobe.
Those who truly understand basketball calls out Magic on those faults dawg.
He was the original beta Lebron.
He be ring chasin by riding on Kareem's GOAT coattails.
He's not GOAT PG, although he's still top 5.
SouBeachTalents
09-23-2015, 09:56 PM
Those who truly understand basketball calls out Magic on those faults dawg.
He was the original beta Lebron.
He be ring chasin by riding on Kareem's GOAT coattails.
He's not GOAT PG, although he's still top 5.
Who's GOAT PG then?
kuniva_dAMiGhTy
09-23-2015, 09:56 PM
I've always held this against Magic. The 80s West was putrid for a time back then akin to the 2000s and 2010s Eastern Conference. A few years here and there being exceptions for both. But we don't call Magic out for his faults. For being entitled, cowardly uncompetitive and manipulating his way to a more stacked destination in LA as a rookie. Even though we give Kobe and Miami LeBron fits for this behavior. Or the weak conferences he went through that we bring up in regards to LeBron all the time. We count all his rings as 1st option caliber unlike we do for Kobe.
Magic never symbolized those traits. Dude was one of the greatest postseason players ever, and unreal in the clutch.
Putting him in the same breath with LeBron, as far as their personality and intangibles go, isn't exactly the best of comparisons.
I do agree that Magic gets a pass with the #1 option stuff. All his rings seem to be created equal (which should be the case, but players like Kobe should ALSO be held to the same standard).
GimmeThat
09-23-2015, 10:58 PM
what was Magic doing during the other NBA seasons?
aj1987
09-23-2015, 11:07 PM
16/11/8 (53% FG). No Laker deserved FMVP over him.
GOAT Laker gonna GOAT Laker.
But if he had won putting up 35.6 PPG on 40% FG doe. That's true greatness.
FTFY.
You do realize that LeBron averaged 36/13/9, right?
1987_Lakers
09-23-2015, 11:09 PM
Thought the OP was directing something at me for a sec.
iamgine
09-23-2015, 11:20 PM
It's true that Magic and Bird's team were stacked. That's how championships are won.
SamuraiSWISH
09-23-2015, 11:24 PM
Magic never symbolized those traits.
Not popularly bro, but based off my accounts of him, that's my perception of Magic.
LeBron may have got fed up after about 7 years of dragging average at best casts in Cleveland, and yes, cowardly over indulged with his super-duper friend help while still in his prime.
But he still came back to Cleveland to make good on promises. Or because they finally had drafted through poor records legit talent to help him.
Magic?
He was originally going to be drafted by the Bulls, and faced with the obstacle of carrying a loser franchise to the promise land.
THAT is a challenge.
Instead he manipulated, like a coward. Said he wouldn't play for Chicago, pulled himself from the draft, and wanted to head to LA to play with at the time, then, possibly the best player in the game. Kareem.
Kobe, originally going to be drafted by either New Jersey or Charlotte, had his agent tell both teams if they drafted him he would go to play in Italy for a time instead.
Manipulative. Entitled. Douchey. Just like Magic. And in a way, un-competitive. They both wanted to go to a specific destination, with no right to demand so being unproven rookies, and wanted to go to a franchise with a lineage of greatness as well deep pockets.
Is that really a challenge?
Or is taking an unknown franchise, or loser franchise and completely turning around the culture eventually becoming champs a true challenge of a competitor?
See: MJ, Duncan, LeBron, Durant
Did Isiah want to get drafted by the Detroit Pistons? No. He literally attempted to bomb the interviews. But he didn't manipulate his draft position to avoid that franchise. He still went out there when drafted to play his heart out for them. A franchise that formerly was garbage.
Same goes for Jordan in Chicago.
Same goes for LeBron in Cleveland.
Magic? He picked where he wanted to play, and with who. As a rookie. Not even as a proven veteran whose contract expired, and was a free agent.
It's na unpopular opinion, because Magic is the media's darling. But that's how I've always viewed him. On the court? Yea he's competitive. But those other guys didn't pull moves like that to dictate circumstances in order to win. Besides LeBron in his free agent season.
Ironically, Kobe later on manipulated his circumstances to prove he could win without a player arguably greater than himself.
SouBeachTalents
09-23-2015, 11:28 PM
It's true that Magic and Bird's team were stacked. That's how championships are won.
Nah, you don't know anything about basketball. Players win or lose championships by themselves. Or at least that's what I've learned by being on ISH
AnaheimLakers24
09-23-2015, 11:40 PM
5=5>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>2
GimmeThat
09-23-2015, 11:40 PM
Not popularly bro, but based off my accounts of him, that's my perception of Magic.
LeBron may have got fed up after about 7 years of dragging average at best casts in Cleveland, and yes, cowardly over indulged with his super-duper friend help while still in his prime.
But he still came back to Cleveland to make good on promises. Or because they finally had drafted through poor records legit talent to help him.
Magic?
He was originally going to be drafted by the Bulls, and faced with the obstacle of carrying a loser franchise to the promise land.
THAT is a challenge.
Instead he manipulated, like a coward. Said he wouldn't play for Chicago, pulled himself from the draft, and wanted to head to LA to play with at the time, then, possibly the best player in the game. Kareem.
Kobe, originally going to be drafted by either New Jersey or Charlotte, had his agent tell both teams if they drafted him he would go to play in Italy for a time instead.
Manipulative. Entitled. Douchey. Just like Magic. And in a way, un-competitive. They both wanted to go to a specific destination, with no right to demand so being unproven rookies, and wanted to go to a franchise with a lineage of greatness as well deep pockets.
Is that really a challenge?
Or is taking an unknown franchise, or loser franchise and completely turning around the culture eventually becoming champs a true challenge of a competitor?
See: MJ, Duncan, LeBron, Durant
Did Isiah want to get drafted by the Detroit Pistons? No. He literally attempted to bomb the interviews. But he didn't manipulate his draft position to avoid that franchise. He still went out there when drafted to play his heart out for them. A franchise that formerly was garbage.
Same goes for Jordan in Chicago.
Same goes for LeBron in Cleveland.
Magic? He picked where he wanted to play, and with who. As a rookie. Not even as a proven veteran whose contract expired, and was a free agent.
It's na unpopular opinion, because Magic is the media's darling. But that's how I've always viewed him. On the court? Yea he's competitive. But those other guys didn't pull moves like that to dictate circumstances in order to win. Besides LeBron in his free agent season.
Ironically, Kobe later on manipulated his circumstances to prove he could win without a player arguably greater than himself.
1. if a player is willing to pull out of a draft, this also means that they are willing to sacrifice going through another year without being paid professionally.
2. Jordan punched Steve Kerr. You can say that's not manipulative, but then he did went to win championships with him.
ClipperRevival
09-23-2015, 11:52 PM
The West was weaker than the East at the time but here's the thing, every team the Lakers faced in the finals were all time great teams and that carries weight. Bulls once, Pistons 2 times, Celtics 3 times and 76ers 3 times.
KevinNYC
09-24-2015, 08:31 AM
Can the mathematician's answer this question?
How much likelier are you to have 50 win teams in today's league than in the 1980's just based on the number of teams.
That is does a 49 win team in a smaller league equal something like a 52 win team today?
Not popularly bro, but based off my accounts of him, that's my perception of Magic.
LeBron may have got fed up after about 7 years of dragging average at best casts in Cleveland, and yes, cowardly over indulged with his super-duper friend help while still in his prime.
But he still came back to Cleveland to make good on promises. Or because they finally had drafted through poor records legit talent to help him.
Magic?
He was originally going to be drafted by the Bulls, and faced with the obstacle of carrying a loser franchise to the promise land.
THAT is a challenge.
Instead he manipulated, like a coward. Said he wouldn't play for Chicago, pulled himself from the draft, and wanted to head to LA to play with at the time, then, possibly the best player in the game. Kareem.
Kobe, originally going to be drafted by either New Jersey or Charlotte, had his agent tell both teams if they drafted him he would go to play in Italy for a time instead.
Manipulative. Entitled. Douchey. Just like Magic. And in a way, un-competitive. They both wanted to go to a specific destination, with no right to demand so being unproven rookies, and wanted to go to a franchise with a lineage of greatness as well deep pockets.
Is that really a challenge?
Or is taking an unknown franchise, or loser franchise and completely turning around the culture eventually becoming champs a true challenge of a competitor?
See: MJ, Duncan, LeBron, Durant
Did Isiah want to get drafted by the Detroit Pistons? No. He literally attempted to bomb the interviews. But he didn't manipulate his draft position to avoid that franchise. He still went out there when drafted to play his heart out for them. A franchise that formerly was garbage.
Same goes for Jordan in Chicago.
Same goes for LeBron in Cleveland.
Magic? He picked where he wanted to play, and with who. As a rookie. Not even as a proven veteran whose contract expired, and was a free agent.
It's na unpopular opinion, because Magic is the media's darling. But that's how I've always viewed him. On the court? Yea he's competitive. But those other guys didn't pull moves like that to dictate circumstances in order to win. Besides LeBron in his free agent season.
Ironically, Kobe later on manipulated his circumstances to prove he could win without a player arguably greater than himself.
Magic didn't manipulate anything though. Lakers won the coin toss.
Anyway, the situations are completely different. Lebron left a contending team that he promised he would bring a championship to in the middle of his prime to join someone who was arguably as good as him or at least top 3 in the league who had already led that franchise to a title along with another perennial all-star. Depending on who won the coin toss, Magic, who was a 19-year old kid by the way, wasn't going to enter the draft at a time when it wasn't really normal for players to be one and done anyway. He basically said he wasn't going to take this abnormal leap that college players don't usually take unless it was an ideal situation. And on top of that, its not the Lakers were the franchise they are now. They had won 1 title in LA at that point, and it wasn't with Kareem who had been there for years at that point.
2. Jordan punched Steve Kerr. You can say that's not manipulative, but then he did went to win championships with him.
What the f***:oldlol: First off, how is that manipulative? Second, have you ever played a physical sport? Why do people make a big deal out of this at all? :oldlol:
HOoopCityJones
09-24-2015, 11:48 AM
What the f***:oldlol: First off, how is that manipulative? Second, have you ever played a physical sport? Why do people make a big deal out of this at all? :oldlol:
The point I assume he's trying to make is people act like Jordan is some saint like Tim Duncan or Dirk.
This nig99a was ready to flake on the Dream Team if Isiah was there and gets the ultimate pass for his sketchy dealings with Gambling debts and his Father's mysterious murder.
while the 80's was garbage the east during Lebrons years were cluttered with injuries and short lived teams in the Pacers and Bulls
neither had to battle much adversity, they were clearly the best team.
it was their own mental approach which dictated whether they would win or not.
but like I said in my original post, the difference is that Magic won most of his opportunities in the finals, which tips the scale in his favor
yes they beat garbage in their conference but they were validated by beating the best from the east
Agreed. When we are talking about actual championship teams, I've always thought the "road to the Finals" argument was stupid. I'm pretty sure had the Heat played in the West those 4 years, they probably still win 2 titles. Its not like there competition in the Finals was garbage, and they still played about the same amount of games leading up to the Finals as their West opponent.
What is stupid though, is when people try to give Lebron a ton of credit just for making the Finals and losing when he plays in such weak conference. While making 4 Finals and losing is probably better then not making the Finals and losing, it shouldn't really be something to celebrate. The implication is that that makes them the 2nd best team in the league that year. Not necessarily, so its not really worth mentioning. But its clear that his fans are just trying find something to celebrate him more. Even though Magic made 4 more Finals and lost as well, no one brings it up, because he has the other 5 where he won to go with it.
Hamtaro CP3KDKG
09-24-2015, 11:58 AM
Magic gets more passes than any alltime great. Among the top 10 nikkas are hush hush about his defense or lack of too and never bring it up when its half the game. Even Bird was a very good defender early on in his career. Magic had stacked casts and played in a conference almost as bad as the 00s East
ClipperRevival
09-24-2015, 12:06 PM
Magic gets more passes than any alltime great. Among the top 10 nikkas are hush hush about his defense or lack of too and never bring it up when its half the game. Even Bird was a very good defender early on in his career. Magic had stacked casts and played in a conference almost as bad as the 00s East
It's because the guy won. Plain and simple. And your statement might hold more weight if the era itself was weak but it wasn't. It was the greatest era EVER in terms of top tier, all-time great teams. Yes, the West was weaker but they had to face all-time great teams in the East once they met in the finals. If the guy went like 2/9 in the finals, history would judge him accordingly. But the guy went 5/9 including 1 finals appearance in 1991 where they had no business being there.
GimmeThat
09-24-2015, 12:14 PM
What the f***:oldlol: First off, how is that manipulative? Second, have you ever played a physical sport? Why do people make a big deal out of this at all? :oldlol:
why don't players say they'll only go to the Chicago Bulls instead of any other teams as an unproven rookie?
ClipperRevival
09-24-2015, 12:16 PM
Bill Russell is another legend who was lacking on one side of the ball but everyone has him as a consensus top 5. And it's because the guy won. Plain and simple.
why don't players say they'll only go to the Chicago Bulls instead of any other teams as an unproven rookie?
What the f*ck are you talking about???
The point I assume he's trying to make is people act like Jordan is some saint like Tim Duncan or Dirk.
This nig99a was ready to flake on the Dream Team if Isiah was there and gets the ultimate pass for his sketchy dealings with Gambling debts and his Father's mysterious murder.
People don't really think that though.
Like half the team protested having Isiah on the team.
Aren't you a Kobe fan? Your boy was actually taken to trial for rape and settled out of court. Are you serious?? ? You shouldn't be the one bringing up conspiracy theories.
Showtime80'
09-24-2015, 01:03 PM
Gotta love the misinformation around these parts, here we go again:
Western Conference wining percentage versus the East from 1980 to 1991 (Magic's career)= 47%
Eastern conference winning percentage versus the West from 2003 to 2015 (LeBald's career)= 42%
Next!!! Not to mention the fact that the NBA moved perennial power the Milwaukee Bucks to the East in 1980 and added an expansion team in the Dallas Mavs at about the same time!
Still when the west got tough and became the better overall conference from 1988 to 1991, Magic still made the Finals 3 times, won a title and got two MVP's all with an aging Lakers team and mainly Kareem as nothing more than a decoy third or fourth option!
Magic dominated the offensive side of the ball at a level that only A FEW players have done it. The Lakers NEVER lost because because of Magic's defensive short comings eventhough those at vastly blown out of proportion. They lost to Moses Malone, the Celtics frontline, the Twin Towers, injuries and Michael frigging Jordan!!!
Like I said, LeBald can't compare!
KirbyPls
09-24-2015, 01:13 PM
Not popularly bro, but based off my accounts of him, that's my perception of Magic.
LeBron may have got fed up after about 7 years of dragging average at best casts in Cleveland, and yes, cowardly over indulged with his super-duper friend help while still in his prime.
But he still came back to Cleveland to make good on promises. Or because they finally had drafted through poor records legit talent to help him.
Magic?
He was originally going to be drafted by the Bulls, and faced with the obstacle of carrying a loser franchise to the promise land.
THAT is a challenge.
Instead he manipulated, like a coward. Said he wouldn't play for Chicago, pulled himself from the draft, and wanted to head to LA to play with at the time, then, possibly the best player in the game. Kareem.
Kobe, originally going to be drafted by either New Jersey or Charlotte, had his agent tell both teams if they drafted him he would go to play in Italy for a time instead.
Manipulative. Entitled. Douchey. Just like Magic. And in a way, un-competitive. They both wanted to go to a specific destination, with no right to demand so being unproven rookies, and wanted to go to a franchise with a lineage of greatness as well deep pockets.
Is that really a challenge?
Or is taking an unknown franchise, or loser franchise and completely turning around the culture eventually becoming champs a true challenge of a competitor?
See: MJ, Duncan, LeBron, Durant
Did Isiah want to get drafted by the Detroit Pistons? No. He literally attempted to bomb the interviews. But he didn't manipulate his draft position to avoid that franchise. He still went out there when drafted to play his heart out for them. A franchise that formerly was garbage.
Same goes for Jordan in Chicago.
Same goes for LeBron in Cleveland.
Magic? He picked where he wanted to play, and with who. As a rookie. Not even as a proven veteran whose contract expired, and was a free agent.
It's na unpopular opinion, because Magic is the media's darling. But that's how I've always viewed him. On the court? Yea he's competitive. But those other guys didn't pull moves like that to dictate circumstances in order to win. Besides LeBron in his free agent season.
Ironically, Kobe later on manipulated his circumstances to prove he could win without a player arguably greater than himself.
Thank you. :applause:
GimmeThat
09-24-2015, 01:29 PM
What the f*ck are you talking about???
that if any process allows people to make choices
then winning the championship as the ultimate goal should exclude team make up just as much as the competition.
aj1987
09-24-2015, 02:19 PM
Gotta love the misinformation around these parts, here we go again:
Western Conference wining percentage versus the East from 1980 to 1991 (Magic's career)= 47%
Eastern conference winning percentage versus the West from 2003 to 2015 (LeBald's career)= 42%
Next!!! Not to mention the fact that the NBA moved perennial power the Milwaukee Bucks to the East in 1980 and added an expansion team in the Dallas Mavs at about the same time!
Still when the west got tough and became the better overall conference from 1988 to 1991, Magic still made the Finals 3 times, won a title and got two MVP's all with an aging Lakers team and mainly Kareem as nothing more than a decoy third or fourth option!
Magic dominated the offensive side of the ball at a level that only A FEW players have done it. The Lakers NEVER lost because because of Magic's defensive short comings eventhough those at vastly blown out of proportion. They lost to Moses Malone, the Celtics frontline, the Twin Towers, injuries and Michael frigging Jordan!!!
Like I said, LeBald can't compare!
We found the kenneth of the '80's stans. :applause:
Actually Kobe and Lebron get criticized for several "negatives" we overlook in past greats. That's the result of playing in the age of social media, sportsfan forums, and instant video.
HOoopCityJones
09-24-2015, 03:47 PM
People don't really think that though.
Like half the team protested having Isiah on the team.
Aren't you a Kobe fan? Your boy was actually taken to trial for rape and settled out of court. Are you serious?? ? You shouldn't be the one bringing up conspiracy theories.
Are you tone def or just retarded? :biggums:
Where did I say Kobe was saint? At the vert least he committed adultery in Colorado if he is innocent. But it doesn't change the fact some of you Jordan **** smokers pretend his shit don't stink.
catch24
09-24-2015, 03:54 PM
Are you tone def or just retarded? :biggums:
Where did I say Kobe was saint? At the vert least he committed adultery in Colorado if he is innocent. But it doesn't change the fact some of you Jordan **** smokers pretend his shit don't stink.
He fails to mention that Jordan led the charge, and would've sat had Isiah played for the team.
Heck, when Chicago contemplated trading Pippen back in the 90s, Jordan also said he wouldn't play for the Bulls unless Scottie was guaranteed to play alongside him.
The Magic and Kobe hate, or 'anti-Laker agenda' I call it, is freaking comical. :oldlol:
ArbitraryWater
09-24-2015, 04:01 PM
Magic never symbolized those traits. Dude was one of the greatest postseason players ever, and unreal in the clutch.
Putting him in the same breath with LeBron, as far as their personality and intangibles go, isn't exactly the best of comparisons.
I do agree that Magic gets a pass with the #1 option stuff. All his rings seem to be created equal (which should be the case, but players like Kobe should ALSO be held to the same standard).
Worthy was their go to guy in the clutch...
anyway, I think its stupid how we say "weak East", when the 2009-2010 East was much more top heavy than the West.
The 2008-2010 West is by far the worst since the 1980's West.
It sticks out, ugly.. the Lakers, and? The Melo Nuggets, Paul Hornets...
catch24
09-24-2015, 04:04 PM
Worthy was their go to guy in the clutch...
anyway, I think its stupid how we say "weak East", when the 2009-2010 East was much more top heavy than the West.
The 2008-2010 West is by far the worst since the 1980's West.
It sticks out, ugly.. the Lakers, and? The Melo Nuggets, Paul Hornets...
He was a big-game player (Big Game James), but Magic hit the big shots too. Found guys in the right spots too. His notoriety in the clutch is well known, as kuniva said.
houston
09-25-2015, 01:15 AM
of course magic get passes
Mr Feeny
09-25-2015, 03:11 AM
Worthy was their go to guy in the clutch...
anyway, I think its stupid how we say "weak East", when the 2009-2010 East was much more top heavy than the West.
The 2008-2010 West is by far the worst since the 1980's West.
It sticks out, ugly.. the Lakers, and? The Melo Nuggets, Paul Hornets...
Agree with this. It was almost a free ride into the final during those years, while Cleveland, Boston and Orlando were destroying each other in the East.
dhsilv
09-25-2015, 03:30 AM
Can the mathematician's answer this question?
How much likelier are you to have 50 win teams in today's league than in the 1980's just based on the number of teams.
That is does a 49 win team in a smaller league equal something like a 52 win team today?
Shouldn't change the % of teams with 50 wins, unless you're factoring in talent distribution or something like that. Now just by the nature of the game in 87 8 teams made the playoffs in both conferences with I believe 22 or 23 teams in the league so you had more teams not in the top half of the league playing in the playoffs (I believe the byes were gone by 87).
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2025 vBulletin Solutions Inc. All rights reserved.