Bob Pettit is better than Bill Russell.

[Richesly]

Tired of that ****er being overrated. He basically is the reason Lucky Charms were made because he had them all around him. Great defensive personal at every position.


Switch Pettit to the Celtics, Russell to the Hawks. Does Russell get 11 rings with just Hagan?(This scenario was almost possible since Hawks drafted him. And most likely wouldn't have had Pettit due to the butterfly effect).

Pettit's only other good teammate was Hagan, who was just a scoring SF who didn't play a lick of D.

And Hagan hadn't hit his prime when Pettit led the Hawks to the chip.

Pettit and Hagan were the only forces on that Hawks team.

[Sarcastic]

No.

[Richesly]

No.

**** off, little dude. You're clueless.

Says "No" because you have no idea what the hell I'm even talking about, and just agreeing with the media.

[Legends66NBA7]

1) Hawks traded Russell because they wanted more scoring.

2) Pettit doesn't fit the Celtics because they needed defense, not more guys who could score. The only player who could have fit Russell's role (but not the same or better results) are Nate Thurmond and Wilt Chamberlain... and Wilt has been recorded saying that earlier on in his career be might have taken away from what made the Celtics great.

2) The Hawks only title against the Celtics was when Russell got injured and couldn't finish the series. They are possibly the worst team NBA history to win a NBA title, at least according to SRS (they are the only negative rating champ).


Pettit was great, but he isn't Bill.

[Richesly]

Lets look at the match ups between the Hawks and Celtics in the '58 finals, after Hawks won the series 4-2.

Starting Match Ups:
Bob Cousy vs Slater Martin
Bill Sharman vs Jack McMahon
Frank Ramsey vs Cliff Hagan
Tom Heinsohn vs Jack Coleman
Bill Russell/Arnie Risen(started 2 games) vs Bob Pettit





Please, someone explain how that Hawk's starting line up won in 6?

I know someone will say, "WELL, YOU SEE, BILL WAS MAD HE COULDN'T CONTAIN PETTIT AND QUIT", then very well.

[Richesly]

1) Hawks traded Russell because they wanted more scoring.

2) Pettit doesn't fit the Celtics because they needed defense, not more guys who could score. The only player who could have fit Russell's role (but not the same or better results) are Nate Thurmond and Wilt Chamberlain... and Wilt has been recorded saying that earlier on in his career be might have taken away from what made the Celtics great.

2) The Hawks only title against the Celtics was when Russell got injured and couldn't finish the series. They are possibly the worst team NBA history to win a NBA title, at least according to SRS (they are the only negative rating champ).


Pettit was great, but he isn't Bill.

Oh shit, then Sam Jones is a lying ****. Pretty sure he said Bill just quit, but the team covered it because it would've been bad publicity for him. Sam was even his teammate during the damn series.

Watch footage of the game, and notice how frustrated Russell is before apparently being too hurt to play. Matter of fact, Pettit wore his ass out the first quarter.

[Smoke117]

Settle down...this guy getting all upset over two players he's probably seen a combined 20 mins of on youtube.

[Richesly]

1) Hawks traded Russell because they wanted more scoring.

2) Pettit doesn't fit the Celtics because they needed defense, not more guys who could score. The only player who could have fit Russell's role (but not the same or better results) are Nate Thurmond and Wilt Chamberlain... and Wilt has been recorded saying that earlier on in his career be might have taken away from what made the Celtics great.

2) The Hawks only title against the Celtics was when Russell got injured and couldn't finish the series. They are possibly the worst team NBA history to win a NBA title, at least according to SRS (they are the only negative rating champ).


Pettit was great, but he isn't Bill.


Your right, he wasn't Bill because he was better than Bill. Pettit actually revealed his technique to beating Russell, which was outsmarting him. He literally said it was easy to out smart him and that while Russell was just relying on strength, Pettit was actually analyzing balls after they were shot to grab rebounds. He could tell where the ball would bounce off the rim, something Russell didn't know.

There is a YT video about it. Ya should look it up.

[warriorfan]

op took too much adderall

[Richesly]

Settle down...this guy getting all upset over two players he's probably seen a combined 20 mins of on youtube.


My father was actually a Detroit fan, and hated the Celtics. He was the biggest Yardley fan ever and thought Detroit were going to win that year with that great team, which the Hawks also beat in the playoffs that year.

In the finals he rooted for the Hawks(must be a sign, since I'm an atlanta hawks fan) to beat the Celtics. He recorded 1 game on the radio, and has 3 game tapes.

[Richesly]

op took too much adderall


How the **** you remember that thread? And yeah I did take some adderall. It really made me start thinking of how my dad became a Hagan fan(he thought Hagan led the Hawks to win) but I believe Pettit was more important. Then it led me to thinking of why Russell is better than Pettit. Conclusion? He isn't.

[Richesly]

I actually want CavsFTW and his father to comment on this thread and what they think.

[CavaliersFTW]

OP, I'm a huge Bob Pettit fan.

I made this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFTY-6sk3iA

But do you know why Bob Pettit retired his hook shot in the NBA?

Because Bill Russell caught it.

Do you know who Bob Pettit thinks is the greatest and best player to have ever played basketball?

Bill Russell.

Want me to upload his interviews and reasons why he thinks so?

[Richesly]

OP, I'm a huge Bob Pettit fan.

I made this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFTY-6sk3iA

But do you know why Bob Pettit retired his hook shot in the NBA?

Because Bill Russell caught it.

Do you know who Bob Pettit thinks is the greatest and best player to have ever played basketball?

Bill Russell.

Want me to upload his interviews and reasons why he thinks so?

But it Pettit was the one that told coach to start him at center and Coleman at the 4. Pettit led the league in rebounding before he buffed up(mentioned in your video), and he had already started playing the 5 quite a bit.

He knows he is better than Russell. He's being humble and modest. He stopped using his hook shot because he developed a solid jumper that most bigs at the time were not suppose to defend or couldn't defend.

Matter of fact, he switched his hookshot into a one hand jumpshot.

Nonetheless, amazing video and I am definitely going to show my dad it when I visit him.

[CavaliersFTW]

But it Pettit was the one that told coach to start him at center and Coleman at the 4. Pettit led the league in rebounding before he buffed up(mentioned in your video), and he had already started playing the 5 quite a bit.

He knows he is better than Russell. He's being humble and modest. He stopped using his hook shot because he developed a solid jumper that most bigs at the time were not suppose to defend or couldn't defend.
He retired his hook shot specifically because he says his hook shot got caught by Bill Russell. It was such a memorable event in his career he mentions it in two different interviews I've got.

I don't think he's being humble. I think he thinks highly of himself as a player too but he's pretty clear about his admiration of Russell. I can't tonight but I will try to collect all of Bob Pettit's references of Bill Russell and upload them here hopefully this weekend for you.

And once more, Pettit was a career forward with the Hawks. If he rotated into the center position it was a minority of his career, for injuries, maybe for a match up on a given night here or there, etc. His centers were all bigger/taller/stronger players than he was in Share, Lovelette, and Beatty and they were not quite as good of shooters, and certainly less capable drivers which is why he played forward. Though he did eventually bulk up to 245lbs, those guys were naturally that strong and heavy and/or heavier before ever even bulking up and Pettit was a superstar that needed to be 'protected' so to speak (preserved as much as possible from too much physical abuse), so those were the big rough and tough hatchet guys inside trying to deal with the Chamberlains, Russell's, Duke's, and Bellamy's. They more naturally fit the profile of center position at the NBA level.

[Richesly]

OP, I'm a huge Bob Pettit fan.

I made this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFTY-6sk3iA

But do you know why Bob Pettit retired his hook shot in the NBA?

Because Bill Russell caught it.

Do you know who Bob Pettit thinks is the greatest and best player to have ever played basketball?

Bill Russell.

Want me to upload his interviews and reasons why he thinks so?

And sure, I would like to see Pettit admit Russell was better to determine if it's modesty or truthfulness.

Also, what are your thoughts on Hagan? He was also one of the best forwards of the era but isn't mentioned ever due to his longevity being short.

[ShaqTwizzle]

Mikan >>> all these scrubs
He was the original OG.

[Richesly]

He retired his hook shot specifically because he says his hook shot got caught by Bill Russell. It was such a memorable event in his career he mentions it in two different interviews I've got.

I don't think he's being humble. I think he thinks highly of himself as a player too but he's pretty clear about his admiration of Russell. I can't tonight but I will try to collect all of Bob Pettit's references of Bill Russell and upload them here hopefully this weekend for you.

And once more, Pettit was a career forward with the Hawks. If he rotated into the center position it was a minority of his career, for injuries, maybe for a match up on a given night here or there, etc. His centers were all bigger/taller/stronger players than he was in Share, Lovelette, and Beatty which is why he played forward. Though he did eventually bulk up to 245lbs, those guys were naturally that strong and heavy and/or heavier before ever even bulking up so they more naturally fit the profile of center position at the NBA level.


Trust me, I am not denying Russell's defensive presence in the paint, but Pettit was a mismatch for him specifically due to his jumper, so why would Pettit go to his hook rather than his jumper or signature one hand jumper when against Russell.

[CavaliersFTW]

And sure, I would like to see Pettit admit Russell was better to determine if it's modesty or truthfulness.

Also, what are your thoughts on Hagan? He was also one of the best forwards of the era but isn't mentioned ever due to his longevity being short.
I haven't seen enough of Hagan but Hagan commands a lot of respect by his peers.

They say he had one of the best hook shots ever. I have seen a bit of footage of his hook shot and it does look awesome. Now, unlike Pettit, Hagan never retired his hook. So Hagan stuck with it. But Hagan played the smaller forward position along side Pettit so I don't know when or how often he liked to set up for that hook. Not enough footage to really study the dynamic of those two on the floor together, or their championship caliber teams.

[jlip]

OP,

If you want a thorough, game by game analysis of the 1958 Finals with several articles from that era read this post (http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?p=25117289#p25117289) by the most knowledgeable poster I've ever seen on Bill Russell, ThaRegul8r.

[MiseryCityTexas]

Oh shit, then Sam Jones is a lying ****. Pretty sure he said Bill just quit, but the team covered it because it would've been bad publicity for him. Sam was even his teammate during the damn series.

Watch footage of the game, and notice how frustrated Russell is before apparently being too hurt to play. Matter of fact, Pettit wore his ass out the first quarter.

Does footage of this NBA Finals series even exist?:oldlol: :roll:

[KevinNYC]

Bob Pettit 2012

NBA.com: If not for that famous Boston-St. Louis trade in 1956, you could have played with Russell on the Hawks. Do you ever think “What if …?”

BP: No, I never do. But I will say this: I think he’s the greatest player who ever walked on the court. There are a lot of guys you could say that about, but in my mind, I would start my team with Bill. In his prime, he was the best I’ve ever seen. He had a great desire to win and to destroy you. And his defense and his rebounding – his defense was incredible. They say [with 11 championship rings] he’s the great winner of all time. Why don’t they just say he’s the greatest player of all time? That’s what the game is about.

[WillC]

This quote gives gravitas to the OP's opinion.

George Yardley: “I’ve always felt that Boston would still have been the dominant team in basketball, even without Russell, because Heinsohn was exactly what Cousy needed. The disastrous team would have been St. Louis if Russell had never been traded to the Celtics. They might never have lost a game, what with him and Pettit on the same team. As a matter of fact, if I were starting a team and had a choice between Russell and Pettit, I would take Pettit over Russell. I think he was the better basketball player and could do a lot more things. He rebounded as well as Russell. He didn’t block shots, but he scored considerably more. He was very unselfish and a much more likable person… Had he and Russell played on the same team, it would have been outrageous.”

[BoutPractice]

Well, you can argue many things...

There's a forum where a substantial minority people are convinced that Kevin Garnett is better than Tim Duncan.

Although the more modern equivalent would probably be someone arguing that Dirk is better than Tim. (Or maybe someone like Barkley or Malone if they had a ring)

Clearly both Pettit and Russell were all-time greats, just like Dirk and Duncan are... but most informed fans believe the latter are/were better than the former, and are able to make a pretty solid case to that effect.

In the case of Russell VS Pettit, the opinion of their contemporaries, individual resumes, team accolades, advanced stats, etc. would tend to argue for Russell.

[WillC]

Well, you can argue many things...

There's a forum where a substantial minority people are convinced that Kevin Garnett is better than Tim Duncan.

Although the more modern equivalent would probably be someone arguing that Dirk is better than Tim. (Or maybe someone like Barkley or Malone if they had a ring)

Clearly both Pettit and Russell were all-time greats, just like Dirk and Duncan are... but most informed fans believe the latter are/were better than the former, and are able to make a pretty solid case to that effect.

In the case of Russell VS Pettit, the opinion of their contemporaries, individual resumes, team accolades, advanced stats, etc. would tend to argue for Russell.

Actually, Bob Pettit tends to beat Bill Russell if you compare their advanced statistics.

For example:

Regular Season PER: Pettit 25.3, Russell 18.9
Regular Season WS Per 48 Minutes: Pettit .213, Russell .193

Pettit also has more All-NBA 1st Team selections (10 compared to 3).

Russell deserves to be ranked ahead of Pettit, but people don't realise how good Pettit was.

[senelcoolidge]

Am going to get it but I would probably pick Pettit over Russell. I know Russell was a dominate rebounder, dominate defender, and one of the greatest leaders the game as ever known. But Pettit was a great rebounder as well, could defend, great offensive skills, and was a leader. Both tenacious players. Pettit on the Celtics would have still won a majority of those titles, look at how many HoF'ers he would have been surrounded with. A Pettit Celtic team would probably not have the 11 in a row streak though.

[feyki]

If Pettit raised him play from season to playoffs , he may be on the goat tier. But Hagan better playoff performer than Pettit and Bill is way better .

1958 win shares leaders(playoffs) ;

1- Cliff Hagan - 2.72

2- Frank Ramsey - 1.72

3- Bill Sharman - 1.48

4- Bob Cousy - 1.48

5- Bob Pettit - 1.20

6- Bill Russell - 1.20

7- Paul Arizin - 1.17

8- George Yardley - 1.16

[Richesly]

If Pettit raised him play from season to playoffs , he may be on the goat tier. But Hagan better playoff performer than Pettit and Bill is way better .

1958 win shares leaders(playoffs) ;

1- Cliff Hagan - 2.72

2- Frank Ramsey - 1.72

3- Bill Sharman - 1.48

4- Bob Cousy - 1.48

5- Bob Pettit - 1.20

6- Bill Russell - 1.20

7- Paul Arizin - 1.17

8- George Yardley - 1.16

No, please do not use win shares like this. There is a reason why Hagan's win share in that playoff is so high, and that was due to him abusing Yardley. My dad told me everything about that series, and his favorite game was game 3(only game pistons won lol) where Hagan and Yardley went at it.

Hagan actually played a lot like Paul Millsap does today for what it's worth, but without the defense.

Pettit didn't have to take over the series, and had a much better series against Boston. You're using win shares off of just one playoff year.

Also, in the last game of the 1958 playoffs to win the chip, Pettit dropped 50 on Russell, who got in foul trouble because he had no clue how to guard him.

[Richesly]

[QUOTE=WillC]This quote gives gravitas to the OP's opinion.

George Yardley:

[feyki]

Okay.


Bob Pettit seasons ;

25.3 PER , 6 25+ seasons


Playoffs ;

22.6 PER , only 2 25+ playoffs .

[Richesly]

Okay.


Bob Pettit seasons ;

25.3 PER , 6 25+ seasons


Playoffs ;

22.6 PER , only 2 25+ playoffs .


Not sure where you are getting those numbers. He had 7 25+ seasons, and 4 25+ playoffs INCLUDING a 30+

[feyki]

Not sure where you are getting those numbers. He had 7 25+ seasons, and 4 25+ playoffs INCLUDING a 30+


http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pettibo01.html

[Richesly]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pettibo01.html

Oh, I see. You're referring to PER stat.

Why?

[feyki]

Oh, I see. You're referring to PER stat.

Why?


Cause easy way brother.

I calculated eff(martin manley's) numbers ;

Career season averages - 31.1(4th all time)

Career playoff averages - 28.5

I love Pettit brother but truths .

[ClipperRevival]

[QUOTE=WillC]This quote gives gravitas to the OP's opinion.

George Yardley:

[ClipperRevival]

Russell was like 10-0 in game 7s and 5-0 against Wilt led teams in game 7s. The guy won. That's why you play the game.

[ClipperRevival]

Okay.


Bob Pettit seasons ;

25.3 PER , 6 25+ seasons


Playoffs ;

22.6 PER , only 2 25+ playoffs .

I got a stat for you. 11 rings in 13 seasons.

[feyki]

I got a stat for you. 11 rings in 13 seasons.


Really? :roll:

[Richesly]

I got a stat for you. 11 rings in 13 seasons.


I wonder if his teammates had anything to do with.

Every starter during the dynasty made the hall of fame or was borderline.

Need I say less?

[WillC]

No it doesn't. One man's opinion doesn't make something true.

I never said it did.

[warriorfan]

I wonder if his teammates had anything to do with.

Every starter during the dynasty made the hall of fame or was borderline.

Need I say less?

They piggybacked off of Russell's greatness.

[WillC]

They piggybacked off of Russell's greatness.

That's simply not true.

John Havlicek went on to be one of the game's all-time greats.

Bob Cousy was already the sport's matinee idol before Russell came along.

Tom Heinsohn won ROTY over Russell, and was one of the best offensive forwards in the game.

Meanwhile, Havlicek once said of Sam Jones that "he was a great shooter, a great defensive player and he had great speed. There wasn't anything Sam Jones couldn't do. If he had played with a team other than the Celtics, he'd be held in the same esteem as Jerry West or Oscar Robertson".

If Pettit had those teammates, I'm sure he'd have won a fair few extra championships.

That said, Russell was better than Pettit. It's just closer than casual fans realise.

[feyki]

That's simply not true.

John Havlicek went on to be one of the game's all-time greats.

Bob Cousy was already the sport's matinee idol before Russell came along.

Tom Heinsohn won ROTY over Russell, and was one of the best offensive forwards in the game.

Meanwhile, Havlicek once said of Sam Jones that "he was a great shooter, a great defensive player and he had great speed. There wasn't anything Sam Jones couldn't do. If he had played with a team other than the Celtics, he'd be held in the same esteem as Jerry West or Oscar Robertson".

If Pettit had those teammates, I'm sure he'd have won a fair few extra championships.

That said, Russell was better than Pettit. It's just closer than casual fans realise.

You're right.

I think Bill Russell greatest of all time cause he's impact better than other legends. Rebounding is important as points in 1960's(that's why Wes win the mvp) . Ball movement leading is important as points any era. Last one , defensive impact more important than points and Bill stops nearly 11-13 points per game(i calculated) . Ben Wallace stops 5-7 points per game in prime , Bill is so far goat defensive player.

11 rings are nothing. Player values scale to individual impacts.

[DavisIsMyUniBro]

I got a stat for you. 11 rings in 13 seasons.

Well, 1 season doesent really count.
He got injured, so it should be 11 rings in 12 seasons

[DavisIsMyUniBro]

You're right.

I think Bill Russell greatest of all time cause he's impact better than other legends. Rebounding is important as points in 1960's(that's why Wes win the mvp) . Ball movement leading is important as points any era. Last one , defensive impact more important than points and Bill stops nearly 11-13 points per game(i calculated) . Ben Wallace stops 5-7 points per game in prime , Bill is so far goat defensive player.

11 rings are nothing. Player values scale to individual impacts.


uhh, where did you get that.

my calculations pegged it to be closer to 7-13 points per 100.

[DavisIsMyUniBro]

I wonder if his teammates had anything to do with.

Every starter during the dynasty made the hall of fame or was borderline.

Need I say less?

Tell me, aside from Russell's rookie year, what was their record without Russell?

[feyki]

uhh, where did you get that.

my calculations pegged it to be closer to 7-13 points per 100.


1965 Celtics defensive rating 83 , league average 95 . I do rate defensive stops percentage to(for before 1974) ;

( Player rib /player min ) / (team players total rib(only players) / team min )

And ..

Celtics played 122 poss per game. Bill played 44.4 min and to be 113 poss.

Now calculating fouls ;

23.6(ftm)/25.8(pf) = 0.91

0.91 x 25.8 = 23.48

So , calculating complete stops ;

83 - 23.48 = 59.52

95 - 59.52 = 35.48

0.35 x 113 = 39.55

0.54 / 1.32 = 0.41

39.55 x 0.41 = 16.21

2.6 x 0.91 = 2.36

And

16.21 - 2.36 = 13.85 points stops per game in 1965 season.

[DavisIsMyUniBro]

1965 Celtics defensive rating 83 , league average 95 . I do rate defensive stops percentage to(for before 1974) ;

( Player rib /player min ) / (team players total rib(only players) / team min )

And ..

Celtics played 122 poss per game. Bill played 44.4 min and to be 113 poss.

Now calculating fouls ;

23.6(ftm)/25.8(pf) = 0.91

0.91 x 25.8 = 23.48

So , calculating complete stops ;

83 - 23.48 = 59.52

95 - 59.52 = 35.48

0.35 x 113 = 39.55

0.54 / 1.32 = 0.41

39.55 x 0.41 = 16.21

2.6 x 0.91 = 2.36

And

16.21 - 2.36 = 13.85 points stops per game in 1965 season.

All you did was prove how many points better they were than league average.

[feyki]

All you did was prove how many points better they were than league average.

Yes brother.

[L.Kizzle]

That's simply not true.

John Havlicek went on to be one of the game's all-time greats.

Bob Cousy was already the sport's matinee idol before Russell came along.

Tom Heinsohn won ROTY over Russell, and was one of the best offensive forwards in the game.

Meanwhile, Havlicek once said of Sam Jones that "he was a great shooter, a great defensive player and he had great speed. There wasn't anything Sam Jones couldn't do. If he had played with a team other than the Celtics, he'd be held in the same esteem as Jerry West or Oscar Robertson".

If Pettit had those teammates, I'm sure he'd have won a fair few extra championships.

That said, Russell was better than Pettit. It's just closer than casual fans realise.
To be fair, Tommy Heinsohn only won rookie of the year because Russell missed the first part of the season playing for Team USA.

With no Russell in Boston, they basically do about the same as the did with Ed Macauley.

Switch Russell with Pettit, and I think a team of Cliff Hagan, Ed Macauley, Slater Martin (later on Lenny Wilkens), Clyde Lovellette, Zelmo Beaty and Bill Bridges could win with Russell more than Pettit.

They made the Finals four times with Pettit. Pettit did not have bad teammates at all. Hagan is one of the most underrated early greats. He was getting 24/11/4 as a small forward. Only Baylor at the position had better numbers. Pettits HOF teammates are Hagan, Macauley, Martin, Wilkens and Lovellette.

[Richesly]

To be fair, Tommy Heinsohn only won rookie of the year because Russell missed the first part of the season playing for Team USA.

With no Russell in Boston, they basically do about the same as the did with Ed Macauley.

Switch Russell with Pettit, and I think a team of Cliff Hagan, Ed Macauley, Slater Martin (later on Lenny Wilkens), Clyde Lovellette, Zelmo Beaty and Bill Bridges could win with Russell more than Pettit.

They made the Finals four times with Pettit. Pettit did not have bad teammates at all. Hagan is one of the most underrated early greats. He was getting 24/11/4 as a small forward. Only Baylor at the position had better numbers. Pettits HOF teammates are Hagan, Macauley, Martin, Wilkens and Lovellette.


Hagan was a beast, as I said in my posts. But that was all he had. Easy Ed didn't come until he was out of his prime. Also, the last 3 Pettit was either close to retiring or just had enter the league.

[ArbitraryWater]

OP, I'm a huge Bob Pettit fan.

I made this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFTY-6sk3iA

But do you know why Bob Pettit retired his hook shot in the NBA?

Because Bill Russell caught it.

Do you know who Bob Pettit thinks is the greatest and best player to have ever played basketball?

Bill Russell.

Want me to upload his interviews and reasons why he thinks so?

calling bullshit

[bizil]

Even though Bob P. was a better scorer, I think I'm gonna lean to Russ on this one. Russ was a better rebounder, better defender, and even the better passer. And still a very good scorer himself. But with that said, I don't think Russ was better by a landslide either. The most premium asset in basketball is alpha dog scoring. And Bob P was EPIC at that element. Plus a tremendous rebounder too.

Also in today's game, I think Russ's skillset would transcend better. He would be able to slide EASILY into the PF position. And have the ability to defend big swingmen all the way to centers. Russ's athletic ability always allowed him to play bigger than his size anyway. Bob P would be an undersized PF, even though in today's game that wouldn't be as big of a deal.

But the question is could Bob adapt to play the SF position if needed. I think Russ was one of the FIRST guys where his skillset and greatness would be timeless. Just like his 60's peers Big O, West, Baylor, and Wilt. Even though Bob P was in that same era, he doesn't seem quite as timeless.

[CavaliersFTW]

Even though Bob P. was a better scorer, I think I'm gonna lean to Russ on this one. Russ was a better rebounder, better defender, and even the better passer. And still a very good scorer himself. But with that said, I don't think Russ was better by a landslide either. The most premium asset in basketball is alpha dog scoring. And Bob P was EPIC at that element. Plus a tremendous rebounder too.

Also in today's game, I think Russ's skillset would transcend better. He would be able to slide EASILY into the PF position. And have the ability to defend big swingmen all the way to centers. Russ's athletic ability always allowed him to play bigger than his size anyway. Bob P would be an undersized PF, even though in today's game that wouldn't be as big of a deal.

But the question is could Bob adapt to play the SF position if needed. I think Russ was one of the FIRST guys where his skillset and greatness would be timeless. Just like his 60's peers Big O, West, Baylor, and Wilt. Even though Bob P was in that same era, he doesn't seem quite as timeless.
Well how big do you think small and power forwards run these days and how big are you aware Bob Pettit was? Bob Pettit's measurements still are ideal power forward sized if you look at the measurements of the talent at that position in the league right now, and he's bigger and/or taller than any small forward not named Durant or Lebron who are historical outliers. He's the size of PF/C players that are able to swing between both those positions be it modern or historical. He was 6-8 and 1/4 without shoes and 245lbs and he claims if he played today and started weight training earlier in his teens (instead of his 3rd season in) he'd likely weigh closer 260.

Unless Blake Griffin, Tristan Thompson and Kevin Love are considered undersized power forwards now he's not undersized at all.

Kevin Love 6-7 and 3/4 w/o shoes - 235-260

Tristan Thompson 6-7 and 3/4 w/o shoes - 245

Blake Griffin 6-8 and 1/5 w/o shoes - 245-260

Same size as three of the best in the game today, and Tristan rotates to center. All of whom I've never heard anyone consider to be undersized as PF's.

[Richesly]

Well how big do you think small and power forwards run these days and how big are you aware Bob Pettit was? Bob Pettit's measurements still are ideal power forward sized if you look at the measurements of the talent at that position in the league right now, and he's bigger and/or taller than any small forward not named Durant or Lebron who are historical outliers. He's the size of PF/C players that are able to swing between both those positions be it modern or historical. He was 6-8 and 1/4 without shoes and 245lbs and he claims if he played today and started weight training earlier in his teens (instead of his 3rd season in) he'd likely weigh closer 260.

Unless Blake Griffin, Tristan Thompson and Kevin Love are considered undersized power forwards now he's not undersized at all.

Kevin Love 6-7 and 3/4 w/o shoes - 235-260

Tristan Thompson 6-7 and 3/4 w/o shoes - 245

Blake Griffin 6-8 and 1/5 w/o shoes - 245-260

Same size as three of the best in the game today, and Tristan rotates to center. All of whom I've never heard anyone consider to be undersized as PF's.


People don't get that PF has nothing to do with size.


Small Forward is a forward who is skilled in a more faster, looser game. They are usually faster, able to control their body during a drive to the hoop perfectly, etc.

Power Forward is a forward who is skilled in rebounding and protection. They are also able to score better with the back to the basket better than the SF could with either finesse post moves or standing dunks in the paint.

Obviously, their are exceptions, like Kevin Love having a better outside game than inside game, but they usually excel at other things like rebounding or defense if thats the case.

[bizil]

Well how big do you think small and power forwards run these days and how big are you aware Bob Pettit was? Bob Pettit's measurements still are ideal power forward sized if you look at the measurements of the talent at that position in the league right now, and he's bigger and/or taller than any small forward not named Durant or Lebron who are historical outliers. He's the size of PF/C players that are able to swing between both those positions be it modern or historical. He was 6-8 and 1/4 without shoes and 245lbs and he claims if he played today and started weight training earlier in his teens (instead of his 3rd season in) he'd likely weigh closer 260.

Unless Blake Griffin, Tristan Thompson and Kevin Love are considered undersized power forwards now he's not undersized at all.

Kevin Love 6-7 and 3/4 w/o shoes - 235-260

Tristan Thompson 6-7 and 3/4 w/o shoes - 245

Blake Griffin 6-8 and 1/5 w/o shoes - 245-260

Same size as three of the best in the game today, and Tristan rotates to center. All of whom I've never heard anyone consider to be undersized as PF's.


For starters, NBA.COM lists Pettit as 6'9 215. Basketball Reference lists Bob as 205. Those are the measurements I'm going off of. Whenever he's featured on the NBA video games, he's listed as 6'9 205-215 pounds. THOSE ARE PROTOTYPE SF measurements. And his secondary position has ALWAYS been listed as center. So IF THAT'S WHAT IM GOING ON, it's MORE THAN FAIR to question how would his game adapt today. The guys u mentioned ARE ALL listed as AT LEAST 20 pounds bigger.

So when u go on these RANTS about measurements, U NEED TO TAKE THAT SHIT to the NBA!! Their official site listed Bob as 6'9 215!!!! I wasn't talking about Bob's height, i was more worried about his weight.

IF he really was 245 pounds, THEN I WOULDN'T have made those remarks earlier. U gotta realize MANY OF US are going off the OFFICIAL SITE OF THE NBA!! I got a busy ASS LIFE!! I don't have time to search hundreds of websites looking for height, height without shoes, weight, weight in high school. etc.!!!

[julizaver]

Even if Bob Pettit is better basketball player individually (can do more things on the court) I would take Russell all day if I am to start a team. And would prefer always a better center to start a team from zero then an all-star caliber forward.

[STLHawkFan61]

Tired of that ****er being overrated. He basically is the reason Lucky Charms were made because he had them all around him. Great defensive personal at every position.


Switch Pettit to the Celtics, Russell to the Hawks. Does Russell get 11 rings with just Hagan?(This scenario was almost possible since Hawks drafted him. And most likely wouldn't have had Pettit due to the butterfly effect).

Pettit's only other good teammate was Hagan, who was just a scoring SF who didn't play a lick of D.

And Hagan hadn't hit his prime when Pettit led the Hawks to the chip.

Pettit and Hagan were the only forces on that Hawks team.

I thought Hagan was one of the most complete players to play the game in that era on both ends the floor.? :confusedshrug:

Also Pettit had Lenny Wilkens who went into the Hall as a player and coach. Played 8 years in St. Louis. 5 with Pettit. 6 with Hagan.

The 60-61 Hawks were probably the best of all the Hawks teams during their time in the STL. Even better then the 58 title squad.

[jongib369]

I got a stat for you. 11 rings in 13 seasons.
God damn it :facepalm

:oldlol:

[SexSymbol]

Pettit's a b*tch and russell's goat.
Eat shit and die OP