even after 10 years of #24. Kobe is still #8 to me.

[kennethgriffin]

http://static.sportskeeda.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/56704175-1410853594.jpg

http://41.media.tumblr.com/e1bdfdcab09a6f22412a33445e7ce940/tumblr_mjbrm4aX3N1qg809zo10_400.jpg


https://41.media.tumblr.com/87afc2728c9999b8e8d2a7ea47c0ff51/tumblr_n9i63gC3u21tb6safo1_500.jpg

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/001/148/342/1483180_crop_650x440.jpg?1312261880


http://d1warraxuf7xh1.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/kobebryant2006.jpg









this sh*t will never look right to me


http://www1.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Kobe+Bryant+Los+Angeles+Clippers+v+Los+Angeles+ZuG tWAAbAMDl.jpg

[kennethgriffin]

same with his autograph... this is the one i remember


https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT0BhajdBXkHSjk22D8KWsPmfBUX67bp NL5lhAQofDDBLywi-G9CQ


this is his new one



http://cconnect.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/06-2012-13-Panini-Flawless-Team-Panini-Autographs-Platinum-Kobe-Bryant-B-239x300.jpg

[ShaqTwizzle]

I liked Kobe the most during the late 90's & early 00's.
Still most of his best years came as #24.

06
07
08
09
10

The only year pre-06 that can really "hang with" those years is 2001.
Some might say 2003 but when you factor in his early playoff injury I wouldn't take it over any of the above 5 years.

Some people say 2002 is also up there but it really isn't.
He had a pretty mediocre playoff run that year.
Honestly his playoff run (against the West) in 2002 was probably worse then his 2000 run.
He was fantastic in the Finals though.

[kennethgriffin]

I liked Kobe the most during the late 90's & early 00's.
Still most of his best years came as #24.

06
07
08
09
10

The only year pre-06 that can really "hang with" those years is 2001.
Some might say 2003 but when you factor in his early playoff injury I wouldn't take it over any of the above 5 years.

Some people say 2002 is also up there but it really isn't.
He had a pretty mediocre playoff run that year.
Honestly his playoff run (against the West) in 2002 was probably worse then his 2000 run.
He was fantastic in the Finals though.



in terms of level of play/skill



#1 - 2006 ( #8 )
#2 - 2008 ( #24 )
#3 - 2009 ( #24 )
#4 - 2007 ( #24 )
#5 - 2003 ( #8 )
#6 - 2001 ( #8 )
#7 - 2010 ( #24 )
#8 - 2002 ( #8 )
#9 - 2013 ( #24 )
#10 - 2012 ( #24 )
#11 - 2004 ( #8 )
#12 - 2011 ( #24 )
#13 - 2005 ( #8 )
#14 - 2000 ( #8 )
#15 - 1999 ( #8 )
#16 - 1998 ( #8 )
#17 - 2015 ( #24 )
#18 - 2014 ( #24 )
#19 - 1997 ( #8 )

[ShaqTwizzle]

I forgot that Kobe was still #8 in 2006.
Anyway this is how I would rank his years (I factor in injuries).
I added letters for years that I think were hard to differentiate in terms of value/ability.

1a. 2008
1b. 2009
1c. 2006
1d. 2007

5a. 2010
5b. 2001

7. 2003
8. 2004

9a. 2002
9b. 2000

11. 2005
(injury but when healthy still very potent)
(I feel like based on "ability" this year maybe should be ranked higher)

12a. 2011
12b. 2012

14. 1999
15. 1998
16. 1997
(developmental years)

2013 would have been ranked fairly high but the injury makes that season worthless to me.
Same for 2000 Duncan.
If a guy can't play in the playoffs then what value does he have?
He was amazing that year though before the injury so don't wanna hate.

:kobe:

[DonDadda59]

Forever SideKickBe :applause:

[Cold soul]

#8 Kobe was fantastic he was crazy athletic and explosive with a great first step. My personal opinion I like older smarter wiser #24 Kobe he wasn't as athletic as his younger days but he was much more skilled with better fundamentals top of being good leader and teammate he matured grow up.

[Lebronxrings]

#8th best laker

[Young X]

Agreed, when I think of Kobe I think #8. Those were his best, most exciting years. 2003 Kobe >>> any other version of Kobe.

[SamuraiSWISH]

in terms of level of play/skill



#1 - 2006 ( #8 )
#2 - 2008 ( #24 )
#3 - 2009 ( #24 )
#4 - 2007 ( #8 )
#5 - 2003 ( #8 )
#6 - 2001 ( #8 )
#7 - 2010 ( #24 )
#8 - 2002 ( #8 )
#9 - 2013 ( #24 )
#10 - 2012 ( #24 )
#11 - 2004 ( #8 )
#12 - 2011 ( #24 )
#13 - 2005 ( #8 )
#14 - 2000 ( #8 )
#15 - 1999 ( #8 )
#16 - 1998 ( #8 )
#17 - 2015 ( #24 )
#18 - 2014 ( #24 )
#19 - 1997 ( #8 )
Yet you claim to be a fan? Always making Kobe threads hahah ... Don't even have his jersey number matching corresponding seasons. 2007 was Kobe's first season as #24.

[Smoke117]

Yet you claim to be a fan? Always making Kobe threads hahah ... Don't even have his jersey number matching corresponding seasons. 2007 was Kobe's first season as #24.

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/kevin-garnett-reaction.gif

[warriorfan]

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/kevin-garnett-reaction.gif

What are you sipping on my friend?

[ShaqTwizzle]

2003 Kobe >>> any other version of Kobe.

I can't rank that year so highly because of the injury he suffered right before the 2nd round.

In the first 2 games of the Spurs series (both losses) he averaged*
32 / 1.5-apg / 5-TOV on .475%TS*

Then in G6 (elimination game) he had 20 / 6-ast / 7-TOV on 50%TS.

He was great in the middle 3 games so it wasn't by any means a terrible series but it wasn't a great one either.

He also kind of struggled that year before Shaq came back.

In the first 12 games (before Shaq returned) LAL went 3-9.
Kobe averaged 29 / 9 / 6-apg on .498%TS over those games.

The production was good but his efficiency was Iverson level without Shaq around.
I think for example 2006 Kobe would have done much better in that situation.

[HOoopCityJones]

What are you sipping on my friend?

The mortgage and his kids tuition. :applause:

[sportjames23]

Yet you claim to be a fan? Always making Kobe threads hahah ... Don't even have his jersey number matching corresponding seasons. 2007 was Kobe's first season as #24.

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/kevin-garnett-reaction.gif

[lilteapot]

Yet you claim to be a fan? Always making Kobe threads hahah ... Don't even have his jersey number matching corresponding seasons. 2007 was Kobe's first season as #24.
Owned.

Kennethgriffin has no life

[DavisIsMyUniBro]

Yet you claim to be a fan? Always making Kobe threads hahah ... Don't even have his jersey number matching corresponding seasons. 2007 was Kobe's first season as #24.

lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfr64zoBTAQ

[Dragonyeuw]

Yet you claim to be a fan? Always making Kobe threads hahah ... Don't even have his jersey number matching corresponding seasons. 2007 was Kobe's first season as #24.

http://imagesmtv-a.akamaihd.net/uri/mgid:file:http:shared:mtv.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/Shock-1443284232.gif

http://media2.popsugar-assets.com/files/2014/09/25/940/n/1922283/2be4b918df41a20a_thumb_temp_cover_file845315141167 1428.xxxlarge/i/Best-Fresh-Prince-Bel-Air-Dancing-GIFs.gif

[ImKobe]

#8 Kobe was the better version due to his athletic abilities but #24 Kobe is the smarter player and a leader. 2006 Kobe was GOAT-level though.

[Beastmode88]

Yet you claim to be a fan? Always making Kobe threads hahah ... Don't even have his jersey number matching corresponding seasons. 2007 was Kobe's first season as #24.

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

[kennethgriffin]

lol i spit out a list in under a minute and momentarily forgot kobes jersey number was 24 in 2007




created a sh*t storm circus show reaction... this is why i'm the greatest poster on ISH

[Beastmode88]

lol i spit out a list in under a minute and momentarily forgot kobes jersey number was 24 in 2007




created a sh*t storm circus show reaction... this is why i'm the greatest poster on ISH

getting caught like ur boy kobe did in 2004 isn't something to be proud of. take the L.

[kennethgriffin]

getting caught like ur boy kobe did in 2004 isn't something to be proud of. take the L.

gggrrr!!



i'm so mad right meow

[bluechox2]

Cause Kobe riding shotgun was>>> Kobe on his own

[kennethgriffin]

Cause Kobe riding shotgun was>>> Kobe on his own


The funny thing is you fail to see how you just gave kobe a compliment


If you think kobe was better than a 2 time fmvp, 81 point level player when he played with shaq... go right ahead

[Coach Eddie]

http://static.sportskeeda.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/56704175-1410853594.jpg

http://41.media.tumblr.com/e1bdfdcab09a6f22412a33445e7ce940/tumblr_mjbrm4aX3N1qg809zo10_400.jpg


https://41.media.tumblr.com/87afc2728c9999b8e8d2a7ea47c0ff51/tumblr_n9i63gC3u21tb6safo1_500.jpg

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/001/148/342/1483180_crop_650x440.jpg?1312261880


http://d1warraxuf7xh1.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/kobebryant2006.jpg









this sh*t will never look right to me


http://www1.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Kobe+Bryant+Los+Angeles+Clippers+v+Los+Angeles+ZuG tWAAbAMDl.jpg

Agreed. Once a sidekick, always a sidekick.

[miles berg]

I'll always think of him as #8 but I'm not a huge Lakers fan or anything so it doesn't really matter what I think.

But as a Mavs fan I feared #8 a lot more than #24.

Of course it was probably #34 that I really feared.

[kennethgriffin]

I'll always think of him as #8 but I'm not a huge Lakers fan or anything so it doesn't really matter what I think.

But as a Mavs fan I feared #8 a lot more than #24.

Of course it was probably #34 that I really feared.



the funny thing about your attempt at trolling is that the lakers and mavs never met in the playoffs since shaq and kobe joined the team up until 2011 when shaq was gone and kobe was hurt

[miles berg]

Oh trust me I wasn't trolling. You are free to go back the last 14 years I've posted here and see the praise I've had for Kobe. Forget the playoffs I'm talking just the thought of having to avoid the Lakers to get into the Finals. That is the kind of stuff that goes through your head as a Mavs fan in the Big 3 days which happened to be the Shaq/Kobe years. Always felts a lot better about Finley on Kobe than I did Bradley or LaFrentz on Shaq. Obviously.

Not everyone trolls. Some of us just like to talk basketball. I never felt scared of the Lakers post Shaq. That has nothing to do with Kobe. But I do think the Shaq/Kobe years, and their lasting memory on a Mavs fan mind, is why I think of Kobe as #8.

I'd love to discuss what the '88 WCFs have done to my psyche over the last 3 decades if you go that far back as a Lakers fan. I'll never get past my belief that had they played Tarpley & Donaldson together in the 4th of Game 7 that we are facing Detroit. McLeod really blew that.

[HOoopCityJones]

Oh trust me I wasn't trolling. You are free to go back the last 14 years I've posted here and see the praise I've had for Kobe. Forget the playoffs I'm talking just the thought of having to avoid the Lakers to get into the Finals. That is the kind of stuff that goes through your head as a Mavs fan in the Big 3 days which happened to be the Shaq/Kobe years. Always felts a lot better about Finley on Kobe than I did Bradley or LaFrentz on Shaq. Obviously.

Not everyone trolls. Some of us just like to talk basketball. I never felt scared of the Lakers post Shaq. That has nothing to do with Kobe. But I do think the Shaq/Kobe years, and their lasting memory on a Mavs fan mind, is why I think of Kobe as #8.

I'd love to discuss what the '88 WCFs have done to my psyche over the last 3 decades if you go that far back as a Lakers fan. I'll never get past my belief that had they played Tarpley & Donaldson together in the 4th of Game 7 that we are facing Detroit. McLeod really blew that.


All I see is a trash ass Mavs fan who was lucky to face The Lakers at the end of their run. That Team was burnt out and Dirk had a career Playoff, any other year ya ni99as would've been swept. Real Talk.

[ArbitraryWater]

All I see is a trash ass Mavs fan who was lucky to face The Lakers at the end of their run. That Team was burnt out and Dirk had a career Playoff, any other year ya ni99as would've been swept. Real Talk.

Can you say this in adult human again?

[HOoopCityJones]

Can you say this in adult human again?
Can you say all you do is post on an internet Basketball forum?

[Lakers 24/7]

All I see is a trash ass Mavs fan who was lucky to face The Lakers at the end of their run. That Team was burnt out and Dirk had a career Playoff, any other year ya ni99as would've been swept. Real Talk.

Are you retarded? You must be dumber than a rock.

He actually posted an intelligent response.

BTW, if you are really mentally deficient I'm sorry. I didn't mean any harm. I respect your struggle.

[catch24]

All I see is a trash ass Mavs fan who was lucky to face The Lakers at the end of their run. That Team was burnt out and Dirk had a career Playoff, any other year ya ni99as would've been swept. Real Talk.

I wouldn't take his post as a diss. Shaq's Lakers were just better all-around (16-1 in the playoffs doe). Kobe did a great job helping Diesel :confusedshrug:

[ShaqTwizzle]

00 Laker's VS 11 Maverick's

Who wins?

:kobe:

[miles berg]

Early 00s Lakers of course. Jordan's Bulls are the only team that I could see giving that prime (as a duo) Shaq/Kobe team a real series in a Finals scenario. They were that good. Mavs fans literally came up with scenarios every spring on how to avoid those Lakers and maybe sneak into the finals.

[SpecialQue]

Cause Kobe riding shotgun was>>> Kobe on his own

I always love this diss because it ignores that Shaq didn't win anything other than a sidekick ring when he didn't have Kobe saving his ass.

[LikeABosh]

Agreed, you just can't respect what he's done on the court since he raped that white girl and changed his number to 24

[ShaqTwizzle]

I always love this diss because it ignores that Shaq didn't win anything other than a sidekick ring when he didn't have Kobe saving his ass.

I always love these retorts because it ignores the fact that 3peat Kobe (outside of his 01 run) was nothing special as a sidekick.

Early 90's Pippen and even late 00's Gasol performed at a comparable if not flatout higher level in a secondary role and had better playoff runs.

00 Kobe : 21.1 / 4.5 / 4.4 on 52%TS (19.3 PER)
92 Pipp : 19.5 / 8.8 / 6.7 on 54%TS (20.6 PER)
09 Gasol : 18.3 / 10.8 / 2.5 on 62%TS (21.9 PER)

02 Kobe : 26.6 / 5.8 / 4.6 on 51%TS (20.5 PER)
91 Pipp : 21.6 / 8.9 / 5.8 on 56%TS (22.0 PER)
10 Gasol : 20 / 11 / 3.5 on 60%TS (24.0 PER)

02 Kobe (pre-Finals) : 26.6 / 5.9 / 4.4 on 49%TS

I mean he was a solid All-Star no doubt, but plenty of guys like 95 Drexler, 12 Wade etc... are all on the same tier as 00 & 02 Kobe.

So please knock it off.
Kobe was Shaq's Pippen level sidekick no matter how hard it is for you to stomach.
Number's don't lie. Stan's do.

This ignorant ploy where people try to diminish Shaq's 3peat rings based on the completely false assertion that Kobe was better then the average sidekick or #2 needs to stop.
Kobe started out Pippen and became Jordan.

Shaq should not be hated on because his Pokemon eventually evolved while Jordan's didn't.

[catch24]

^Agree with most of this, but don't forget about Kobe's defense those years, especially in 2000 (1st team all-defense & 5th in DPOY voting) and 2002 (1st team all defense and 3rd in DPOY voting :eek:)

I would take Kobe over all those guys. Without hesitation. Dude hit big shots for us, played elite defense, was the Lakers primary facilitator, and in 2001, was already the games best perimeter scorer. Phil was quoted around that time, saying Kobe did more for a team than anybody he has ever coached and asked to do.

Honestly? Kobe was the GOAT sidekick in 2000 and 2002 (in 2001, he was closer to a 1B although Shaq was still clearly the better player).

[ShaqTwizzle]

Honestly? Kobe was the GOAT sidekick in 2000 and 2002

I don't agree with that.

I mean what makes 00 & 02 Kobe better then 91 & 92 Pippen?

00 Kobe : 21.1 / 4.5 / 4.4 on 52%TS (19.3 PER)
92 Pipp : 19.5 / 8.8 / 6.7 on 54%TS (20.6 PER)

02 Kobe : 26.6 / 5.8 / 4.6 on 51%TS (20.5 PER)
91 Pipp : 21.6 / 8.9 / 5.8 on 56%TS (22.0 PER)

Pippen produced a comparable level of offense on much better efficiency and grabbed more boards.

Even defensively the gap is pretty clearly in Pip's favor though I thought Kobe was an "elite" defender in 00 and a "very good" defender in 02.

Don't get me wrong there aren't many #2's who I think performed at a considerably higher level then 02 Kobe or 00 Kobe (pre-Finals) but I do think there is a pretty long list of #2's on the same "tier" or level with quite a few that can be argued as better (and are pretty clearly better statistically).

I judge guys based on their factual production, efficiency and performance level.
I don't like cherry picking individual games, series and I certainly don't like bringing up other years or career achievements.

Kobe was a fine #2 in 00 & 02 but his performance level wasn't all that amazing.

I mean 26 / 4.4-apg on 49%TS is what he averaged against the West in the 02 playoffs.

You telling me there isn't a pretty long list of wings over the last decade or two who could put up those rather mediocre numbers playing off of Shaq?

[catch24]

^PER is an efficiency stat, and while I agree Pippen was more efficient than Kobe, Pippen couldn't dream of scoring the way Kobe could and did those years. That mano y mano takeover in Game 4 of the 2000 finals? Pippen couldn't do that.

Pippen couldn't bully the Kings and Spurs the way Kobe did in 2002.

PER is a neat little stat, but its not a basis to argue who THE better player is. According to "PER", Kobe is greater than both Magic and Bird (something I vehemently disagree with).

[catch24]

I do agree there were certain players, even from that era, that could replace Kobe and win a title or two with Shaq. No doubt.

But that's all hypothetical and we can only debate what is, aka reality, and that's Kobe being arguably the greatest sidekick of them all.

Just my 2 cents

[ShaqTwizzle]

^PER is an efficiency stat, and while I agree Pippen was more efficient than Kobe, Pippen couldn't dream of scoring the way Kobe could and did those years.


Why does it matter how they scored?
Pippen may have used a different style but if it was more effective then wasn't it better?
I mean the results are what matter.


That mano y mano takeover in Game 4 of the 2000 finals? Pippen couldn't do that.


Funny thing about that game.
Had Kobe not played so poorly during regulation there never would have been an OT.
He scored 20pts on 43%TS prior to the OT in that "famous" game.
Most people kind of ignore that or simply don't realize it.
Maybe I was the first to ever notice that.

I also think you are maybe underrating Pippen's halfcourt offensive skills.
He could break guys down off the dribble.


Pippen couldn't bully the Kings and Spurs the way Kobe did in 2002.

Kobe wasn't all that great in those series.

26 / 4.8-apg on 49%TS --VS Spurs
27 / 3.9-apg on 49%TS --VS Kings

Maybe Pippen wouldn't score quite as much in his shoes but he might have more assists, score more efficiently and play better defense.


PER is a good stat, but its not a basis to argue who the better player is. According to PER, Kobe is a better player than both Magic and Bird (something I vehemently disagree with).

Fair enough.

[JohnnySic]

24 was more likeable. Not only was he a better team player, but after the rape thing he became more candid and real. 8 was a cartoon character.

[HOoopCityJones]

I do agree there were certain players, even from that era, that could replace Kobe and win a title or two with Shaq. No doubt.

But that's all hypothetical and we can only debate what is, aka reality, and that's Kobe being arguably the greatest sidekick of them all.

Just my 2 cents

I disagree. Guys like Carter, AI, Tmac, etc. They weren't dedicated enough or mentally tough enough to 3peat like Kobe did with Shaq. Maybe like you said , win a ring or two.

None of the perimeter players named at least, Kobe was always a cut above the rest. Guys like Duncan, Dirk, KG maybe Kidd, definitely could 3peat with Shaq.