Iverson, Kobe and Lebron- FG% Arguments That are Inconsistent

[34-24 Footwork]

Iverson won the scoring title shooting 39% and heralded as one of the greatest scoring seasons ever from a guard (2001-2002 specifically/ 43MPG/31.4PPG/4TO)

6Ft Tall...at the most.


Lebron had one of the greatest Finals ever shooting 39%
(45MPG/ 35.8PPG/4TO)

In the middle of his prime with single coverage.



Kobe in his 19th season with a torn shoulder shoots 37%
(34.5MPG/ 22.3PPG/4TO)

Coming off of 2 career ending surgeries and playing on a torn rotator cuff.




None of these teams were "loaded" and all three players took on volume scoring roles which brought down their percentages.

Why the hate toward one player?

[Quickening]

31 ppg, 35 ppg and 22 ppg... one of those does stand out.

Doesn't Kobe average something like 41 percent in finals games, but no one seems to care. Perception is everything in sports.

[warriorfan]

Iverson won the scoring title shooting 39% and heralded as one of the greatest scoring seasons ever from a guard (2001-2002 specifically/ 43MPG/31.4PPG/4TO)

6Ft Tall...at the most.


Lebron had one of the greatest Finals ever shooting 39%
(45MPG/ 35.8PPG/4TO)

In the middle of his prime with single coverage.



Kobe in his 19th season with a torn shoulder shoots 37%
(34.5MPG/ 22.3PPG/4TO)

Coming off of 2 career ending surgeries and playing on a torn rotator cuff.




None of these teams were "loaded" and all three players took on volume scoring roles which brought down their percentages.

Why the hate toward one player?

Because those players played guard, LeBron plays "Point Forward", which means he gets to occupy the offensive position of the point guard and assume defensive responsibilities of the point guard while he is in fact actually a Power Forward. If you remove a Power Forward from a line up and add a Point Guard, your defense will suffer.

Iverson and Kobe fulfilled those scoring responsibilities while playing as a guard, LeBron has to masquarade as a guard while he really is a Power Forward to produce the same offensive stats as a guard, while not providing the defensive responsibilities that are expected from a Power Forward.

[34-24 Footwork]

31 ppg, 35 ppg and 22 ppg... one of those does stand out.

Doesn't Kobe average something like 41 percent in finals games, but no one seems to care. Perception is everything in sports.

Yeah...one of those guys has been playing professional basketball since 17 years old and considerably older than the others.

[34-24 Footwork]

Is averaging 41% in the NBA finals while being doubled/attracting double teams and allowing your fellow teammates to get decent looks and WINNING worse than LOSING while shooting 39% against single coverage? Funny how that concept used to be deplorable before the 2015 Finals.

[warriorfan]

Yeah...one of those guys has been playing professional basketball since 17 years old and considerably older than the others.

Because Kobe shot those percentages while occupying the Shooting Guard slot on offense AND defense.

When your supposed "power forward" takes on those responsibilities and gives you the same FG% as your guard, while not giving your defense worthy of a power forward... This is where you can officially label your "power forward" as giving you "empty stats".

[Smoke117]

I'm not even sure what this thread is trying to say...

Iverson's is a 60 game sample in the regular season

Lebron's is a 6 game sample vs what was the best defensive team in the league

Kobe is just old and pretty much done.


I don't understand what the point you are trying to make is? I also don't know anyone who considers Iversons 2002 one of the greatest scoring seasons ever...he needed 28 shots to score 31.5 points...that's crap. Is this supposed to be why does Lebron get so much hate?...because he's the best player in the league and a lot of people hate him just to hate him. Most people that hate on him aren't actually using any rationale basketball explanations...they just don't like him. The only player who was truly crap here with a huge sample size is Iverson. Kobe was just old and pretty much done and for Lebron it is just a 6 game sample size with his 2nd and 3rd best player out.

Also, Kobe did not shoot 37% with a torn shoulder...it was the torn shoulder that ended his season...he wasn't playing through it all season long. Get your facts straight on that account...he was so bad because he is just old and done and frankly took a lot of stupid ass shots.


Because those players played guard, LeBron plays "Point Forward", which means he gets to occupy the offensive position of the point guard and assume defensive responsibilities of the point guard while he is in fact actually a Power Forward. If you remove a Power Forward from a line up and add a Point Guard, your defense will suffer.

Iverson and Kobe fulfilled those scoring responsibilities while playing as a guard, LeBron has to masquarade as a guard when he really a Power Forward to produce the same offensive stats as a guard while not providing the defensive responsibilities that are expected from a Power Forward.

Do you ever actually read what you say...because you say a lot of moronic shit. All that babbling and all I got from this was: Warriorfan is an idiot. (but I already knew that) Lebron has always been a natural SF whose game has always leaned towards a guards and not a big mans.

[NumberSix]

It's not just the numbers. LeBron and Iverson had the entire offense on their shoulders. Kobe had elite team mates in 2004, but he was just out there chucking.

[34-24 Footwork]

Thread highlights the conundrum of stats and context of three of the most polarizing figures in basketball.

People refer to Iverson's chucking as to why Iverson never won a ring. (I could argue he loss solely because he went up against the Lakers)

People refer to kobe's chucking as a reason to why he hasn't been more successful in his career (most properly adjusted people believe he has had an unbelievable career and has overachieved)

When losing in the finals while playing in a similar fashion, Lebron suffered the same fate when stepping into the role of a volume shooter without receiving the same criticism.

I found it interesting because it was our first time seeing lebron play this way.

[Smoke117]

Thread highlights the conundrum of stats and context of three of the most polarizing figures in basketball.

People refer to Iverson's chucking as to why Iverson never won a ring. (I could argue he loss solely because he went up against the Lakers)

People refer to kobe's chucking as a reason to why he hasn't been more successful in his career (most properly adjusted people believe he has had an unbelievable career and has overachieved)

When losing in the finals while playing in a similar fashion, Lebron suffered the same fate when stepping into the role of a volume shooter without receiving the same criticism.

I found it interesting because it was our first time seeing lebron play this way.

The Sixers should have never even been in the finals in the first place:

1. The refs gave them that series over the bucks.

2. If not for Zo going down with the kidney ailment it was almost certainly going to be the heat in the finals

[34-24 Footwork]

It's not just the numbers. LeBron and Iverson had the entire offense on their shoulders. Kobe had elite team mates in 2004, but he was just out there chucking.

Iverson carried a much heavier load than Lebron throughout his career in pHILLY. Comparing Iverson's teammates in Philly to any of the Lebron's teammates on the Cavs/Heat tells me that:

a) You don't REALLY watch basketball
b) You REALLY like Lebron THAT much to say some disingenuous sh!t like that.

[Smoke117]

Iverson carried a much heavier load than Lebron throughout his career in pHILLY. Comparing Iverson's teammates in Philly to any of the Lebron's teammates on the Cavs/Heat tells me that:

a) You don't REALLY watch basketball
b) You REALLY like Lebron THAT much to say some disingenuous sh!t like that.

The Sixers got to the finals on the backs of their defense (which Iverson wasn't even top 5) and the backs of the refs.

[34-24 Footwork]

The Sixers should have never even been in the finals in the first place:

1. The refs gave them that series over the bucks.

2. If not for Zo going down with the kidney ailment it was almost certainly going to be the heat in the finals

You're team NoShame, for real. Can you give ANYONE else any credit for besides Lebron James?

[Lebron23]

No one hates Allen Iverson. He actually became an efficient player after the NBA changed it's rules in 2005.

[Smoke117]

You're team NoShame, for real. Can you give ANYONE else any credit for besides Lebron James?

I'm not even a lebron james fan...in fact I lean more towards dislike when I'm not completely apathetic. I just find Iverson to be one of the most overrated players ever.

[34-24 Footwork]

The Sixers got to the finals on the backs of their defense (which Iverson wasn't even top 5) and the backs of the refs.

You right. Despite Iverson's 36PPG and 2STLS per game in the finals, he ain't sh!t.

[34-24 Footwork]

No one hates Allen Iverson. He actually became an efficient player after the NBA changed it rule in 2005.

PS:


OP is a Piece of $hit. I hope you Die this year. You are just a waste of Oxygen.

I love you.

edit- seriously, let's be adults in this thread.

[Smoke117]

You right. Despite Iverson's 36PPG and 2STLS per game in the finals, he ain't sh!t.


35.6ppg on 32.3 shots (.486%ts)...wow, what a stud.

For series against the bucks: 30.5ppg on 31.0 shots (.435%ts)...that's some real dominant scoring...when you need 31 shots to score 30.5 points.

For that playoffs: 32.9ppg on 30.0 shots...

Any star guard whether it be Allen, Tmac, Kobe, Vince could have done better than that if they were chucking bullshit like that. In that bucks series Ray averaged 27.1ppg on 20.1 shots. Iverson needed 11 more shots to average 3.5 more points...that's some real dominance there.

I got things to do today, so while it's been fun...I need some sleep.

[Vaniiiia]

Because those players played guard, LeBron plays "Point Forward", which means he gets to occupy the offensive position of the point guard and assume defensive responsibilities of the point guard while he is in fact actually a Power Forward. If you remove a Power Forward from a line up and add a Point Guard, your defense will suffer.

Iverson and Kobe fulfilled those scoring responsibilities while playing as a guard, LeBron has to masquarade as a guard while he really is a Power Forward to produce the same offensive stats as a guard, while not providing the defensive responsibilities that are expected from a Power Forward.
You are so ****ing unbelievably cringe worthy. Biting 3balls style and relentlessly riding his dick, while also trying hard to come off like you know what you're talking about.

I don't think I've ever cringed as hard in my life as I did just now reading your posts. You are seriously the most embarrassing poster to ever occupy this forum.

[warriorfan]

You are so ****ing unbelievably cringe worthy. Biting 3balls style and relentlessly riding his dick, while also trying hard to come off like you know what you're talking about.

I don't think I've ever cringed as hard in my life as I did just now reading your posts. You are seriously the most embarrassing poster to ever occupy this forum.

http://s18.postimg.org/5k0fchfa1/Budaddi_Meltdown_To_China.jpg

[Vaniiiia]

No self-awareness.

Everyone either ignores you or straight up murders you. There's no in between.

Keep spamming the same unfunny stuff over and over again, maybe one day someone will quote you with a ":oldlol:" (though it probably will only be to spite me, so don't give yourself too much props if it ever happens, cause we all know your material is cringe inducing garbage)

[warriorfan]

No self-awareness.

Everyone either ignores you or straight up murders you. There's no in between.

Keep spamming the same unfunny stuff over and over again, maybe one day someone will quote you with a ":oldlol:" (though it probably will only be to spite me, so don't give yourself too much props if it ever happens, cause we all know your material is cringe inducing garbage)

what

a

meltdown

[Vaniiiia]

Keep spamming the same unfunny stuff over and over again

what

a

meltdown
:lol



I still can't get over you blatantly copying 3balls style. You think because you ride his nuts that you guys are actually on the same level, and are apart of some team?

Hahaha. Oh my god... the cringe is very very real.

You and 3balls relationship is like a random guy being nice to a retard, so the retard thinks they're now best-friends and starts copying what ever the random guy does.

:roll:

Hilarious, sad, and embarrassing all in one. It's what ISH is all about.

[ArbitraryWater]

what is this thread trying to say? Still not sure

[warriorfan]

:lol



I still can't get over you blatantly copying 3balls style. You think because you ride his nuts that you guys are actually on the same level, and are apart of some team?

Hahaha. Oh my god... the cringe is very very real.

You and 3balls relationship is like a random guy being nice to a retard, so the retard thinks they're now best-friends and starts copying what ever the random guy does.

:roll:

Hilarious, sad, and embarrassing all in one. It's what ISH is all about.

Are you alright? Are you feeling trolled? Do you need to talk about it?





Pm me.

[Vaniiiia]

Are you alright? Are you feeling trolled? Do you need to talk about it?





Pm me.
http://i.imgur.com/RwR3oyk.jpg

:oldlol:


You're actually incredibly fun to bully because you're too ****ing stupid to know when you're getting pummeled.

Usually picking on retarded people isn't cool... but retards with an ego are fair game.

:lol

Let's see if you can break the 12 minute mark this time!

[34-24 Footwork]

what is this thread trying to say? Still not sure

Shooters/scorers who play the SG position and are volume shooters aren't given the same benefit of the doubt that Lebron is given when it comes to FG%...even though he is position-less and they are essentially paid to scorer the ball...even if that means at a high volume.

[warriorfan]

http://i.imgur.com/RwR3oyk.jpg

:oldlol:


You're actually incredibly fun to bully because you're too ****ing stupid to know when you're getting pummeled.

Usually picking on retarded people isn't cool... but retards with an ego are fair game.

:lol

Let's see if you can break the 12 minute mark this time!

rent free

[90sgoat]

Iverson was a no good chucker what is there to debate?

Like Lebron he was unable to change his game into a more team oriented game.

[JT123]

:lol



I still can't get over you blatantly copying 3balls style. You think because you ride his nuts that you guys are actually on the same level, and are apart of some team?

Hahaha. Oh my god... the cringe is very very real.

You and 3balls relationship is like a random guy being nice to a retard, so the retard thinks they're now best-friends and starts copying what ever the random guy does.

:roll:

Hilarious, sad, and embarrassing all in one. It's what ISH is all about.
:roll:

[Hey Yo]

Originally Posted by 34-24 Footwork
Lebron had one of the greatest Finals ever shooting 39%
(45MPG/ 35.8PPG/4TO)

In the middle of his prime with single coverage.
12 seasons and 43,330 minutes played, is considered being in the middle of a players prime??? That's not even including his 3 Olympics and 2 FIBA appearance minutes.

[JT123]

12 seasons and 43,330 minutes played, is considered being in the middle of a players prime??? That's not even including his 3 Olympics and 2 FIBA appearance minutes.
Ignore OP, he's just another Kobetard alt. Who else would compare an entire season to a 6 game sample size?

[3ball]

When your supposed "power forward" takes on those responsibilities of your guard, while not giving (other things) worthy of a power forward... This is where you can officially label your "power forward" as giving you "empty stats".


I see exactly what you're saying here - Lebron's plays PG, but still starts at forward - essentially, all of Lebron's teams have 2 point guards - Lebron, and the actual PG (Mo Williams, Kyrie, Chalmers).

Incidentally, PG's typically score by themselves without being assisted by another player - compared to all the other positions, PG's have abnormally low assisted rates.. Accordingly, Lebron's presence as a 2nd point guard in the starting lineup reduces the assist/playmaking capacity of the team, since there is now a 2nd player that teammates don't get to assist very often.. And obviously, teammates are more restricted from playmaking on Lebron's teams because between Lebron and the actual PG, they hog all the playmaking responsibilities.

Considering Lebron's teams have TWO guys (PG's) that monopolize/hog the playmaking duties while also being low-assisted players, it's no surprise that the APG and assist % of Lebron's teammates (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=385841) goes down alongside Lebron, which results in all of Lebron's teams (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=385446) having very low assist frequency.

Ultimately, the monopolization/hogging of playmaking duties by the 2 point guards, prevents Lebron's teams from running equal-opportunity offenses where all 5 teammates share in the playmaking responsibilities like the Spurs, Warriors, or 90's Bulls (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIY_4vIxGEE&t=23m40s).. Since Lebron prevents his teams from playing the best brand of basketball, equal or less-talented opponents pull upsets by playing a better brand of basketball (2009, 2011, 2014).

[Magic 32]

meh

[dh144498]

jesus.... Budaiii is melting down so hard.... don't shoot up your high school tomorrow, crazy white boy.

[Young X]

FG% is outdated anyway. Doesn't account for the extra points on 3pt shots. eFG% is much better. Going 3/8 with 3 threes made is better than going 4/8 with no threes made but FG% won't tell you that.

[dh144498]

FG% is outdated anyway. Doesn't account for the extra points on 3pt shots. eFG% is much better. Going 3/8 with 3 threes made is better than going 4/8 with no threes made but FG% won't tell you that.

not necessarily, what if that extra miss also led to a rebound that led to a fast break?

[Young X]

not necessarily, what if that extra miss also led to a rebound that led to a fast break?True. I should've said "more efficient" instead of "better".

[plowking]

Since when does 39.8% get rounded down to 39% OP?

Seems to be something that Bron haters really want to stick despite it not being true.

[GIF REACTION]

Lebron shot 40% 36 points in the 2015 finals

MJ shot 41% 27 points in the 1996 finals

- MJ had the #1 ranked supporting cast of all time in 1996, who were all healthy during the finals
-Lebron's supporting cast in the finals was ranked in the bottom 5 worst supporting casts of all time, along with his 2014 and 2007 finals teams.
-In 1996, the 3 point line was actually closer in compared to today

[Hey Yo]

Lebron shot 40% 36 points in the 2015 finals

MJ shot 41% 27 points in the 1996 finals

- MJ had the #1 ranked supporting cast of all time in 1996, who were all healthy during the finals
-Lebron's supporting cast in the finals was ranked in the bottom 5 worst supporting casts of all time, along with his 2014 and 2007 finals teams.
-In 1996, the 3 point line was actually closer in compared to today
Can't front on that ^^^