Larry Bird Is Better Than Michael Jordan

[DetroitPistonFan]

Bird put up better numbers in all the games against Jordan and the Bulls. And the Bulls were 11-17 in the regular season and 0-6 in the Playoffs against the Celtics. Agreed?

[dubeta]

This is common knowledge


No need to spam the board

[ShawkFactory]

Peak Bird was better than Jordan his first couple years in the league, yes.

[Paul George 24]

Bird put up better numbers in all the games against Jordan and the Bulls. And the Bulls were 11-17 in the regular season and 0-6 in the Playoffs against the Celtics. Agreed?
BIRD HS BETTER TEAMMATES THAN MIKE AT 80 :banana:

[colts19]

I am the biggest Bird fan there is, even I don't think larry was better then MJ. I do however think it's a lot closer than most MJ fans think it is. Among non Centers, I have MJ, Bird and Magic as the 3 clearly best players ever.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Bird is the most skilled player ever but no MJs defense gives him the edge.

Larry was a better shooter from everywhere even midrange, better rebounder, better passer/playmaker and overall offensive player but MJs stout defense and GOAT scoring give him the edge

[Champ]

Bird is the most skilled player ever but no MJs defense gives him the edge.

Larry was a better shooter from everywhere even midrange, better rebounder, better passer/playmaker and overall offensive player but MJs stout defense and GOAT scoring give him the edge

Pretty solid answer and this about sums it up.

I would add, however, that Bird was one of the few - if not the only - player that could mentally go toe-to-toe with Jordan.

[kennethgriffin]

bird was better than 1980's jordan

thats all this proves


plus bird had 4-5 hall of fame teammates at a time


we can all agree bird was more skilled than jordan ever was.

but jordan had the better overall career and the better prime. so hes ahead in the all time rankings


however...give bird jordans body and he would have won 10+ rings

[dubeta]

bird was better than 1980's jordan

thats all this proves


plus bird had 4-5 hall of fame teammates at a time


we can all agree bird was more skilled than jordan ever was.

but jordan had the better overall career and the better prime. so hes ahead in the all time rankings


however...give bird jordans body and he would have won 10+ rings


Give Bird Kobes body and he wins 7-8 rings as well

[Odinn]

It's been done.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=146170

Carry on.

[kennethgriffin]

Give Bird Kobes body and he wins 7-8 rings as well


lmfao

kobes had 100 times more injuries than bird

the last time kobe had the legs to pull off a windmill was 2003

5 knee surgeries and a torn achilles later... hes lucky to even be walking

[LBJFTW]

lmfao

kobes had 100 times more injuries than bird

the last time kobe had the legs to pull off a windmill was 2003

5 knee surgeries and a torn achilles later... hes lucky to even be walking

But if Bird had Kobe's body......:lol

[kennethgriffin]

But if Bird had Kobe's body......:lol


.......he'd have retired after 7 years instead of 13

since bird lacks the work ethic to get his body back to normal after devastating injuries

if bird wrecked his knee like kobe did in the 2003 playoffs then he probably would have come back in his 8th season as half the player cause his idea of rehab is sitting at home drinking beer like a hick

[Round Mound]

Bird was a Better: Rebounder, Passer, Creator For Others, Team Player, Long Range Shooter. FT Shooter and Team Defender (especially when he played the 4 in the initial part of his career).

MJ was a Better: Pure Scorer, Equal Mid Range Shooter (though had Higher FG% because no other SGs could guard him the post: too strong for his position) and a Better Slasher and Driver to the Basket (basically better athletically). MJ was also a Better 1 on 1 Defender.

Bird was a Better All Around Player IMO

[Lebronxrings]

Give Bird Kobes body and he wins 7-8 rings as well
yea i kinda agree here. Kobe was more of the type to rely on natural talent and body rather than skill.

[dubeta]

.......he'd have retired after 7 years instead of 13

since bird lacks the work ethic to get his body back to normal after devastating injuries

if bird wrecked his knee like kobe did in the 2003 playoffs then he probably would have come back in his 8th season as half the player cause his idea of rehab is sitting at home drinking beer like a hick

LOL, are we ignoring Kobe's speed, strength, vertical advantage Bird would get?


Kobe's 6'7 235 pounds with elite speed, leaping ability (40 inch vert), and strength





Bird with Kobe's body would shoot a lot better than Kobes putrid 45%

[kennethgriffin]

LOL, are we ignoring Kobe's speed, strength, vertical advantage Bird would get?


Kobe's 6'7 235 pounds with elite speed, leaping ability (40 inch vert), and strength





Bird with Kobe's body would shoot a lot better than Kobes putrid 45%


part of birds advantage was being 6-10 and being able to just shoot over players with his flat footed over head motion


thats a skill that is only useful as a tall player

it wouldnt translate into a guards body



the flat footed set shot is 10 times easier to time/perfect than a full leg vertical jumpshot



bird would basically have to start over from scratch..

[Coach Eddie]

Bird put up better numbers in all the games against Jordan and the Bulls. And the Bulls were 11-17 in the regular season and 0-6 in the Playoffs against the Celtics. Agreed?
I agree that you are a dumbass.

[DetroitPistonFan]

I agree that you are a dumbass.
Truth hurts doesn't, Jordan-tard?

[Dragonyeuw]

Pretty solid answer and this about sums it up.

I would add, however, that Bird was one of the few - if not the only - player that could mentally go toe-to-toe with Jordan.

Magic as well, and had they met in 1995, I think Hakeem had the capability to stare down the barrel at MJ at that point.

[Gileraracer]

Jordan 39.7PPG against Bird in the Playoffs :applause:

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Give Bird Kobes body and he wins 7-8 rings as well
Give Bird Brans body/athleticism thats an easy 10 rings minimum. The durability, the insane speed, power wouldnt be much of an upgrade Bird was prolly stronger, but speed and durability combined with leaping? Bran is one of the GOAT athletes what almost all of his game is:applause: :applause:

[dh144498]

Jordan 39.7PPG against Bird in the Playoffs :applause:

:lol

:bowdown:

[HurricaneKid]

Bird:
"I think it's God disguised as Michael Jordan".

Since Bird himself called MJ a god, and Bird was CLEARLY human (how else can you explain the bad back and short career).

God >>>>>>> Human.

That was easy.

[OldSchoolBBall]

Bird is not better than Jordan peak vs. peak ('84-'87 Bird and '90-'93 Jordan), but offensively only one could make a decent case, though even offensively only I'd take Jordan.

[MiseryCityTexas]

Bird was a Better: Rebounder, Passer, Creator For Others, Team Player, Long Range Shooter. FT Shooter and Team Defender (especially when he played the 4 in the initial part of his career).

MJ was a Better: Pure Scorer, Equal Mid Range Shooter (though had Higher FG% because no other SGs could guard him the post: too strong for his position) and a Better Slasher and Driver to the Basket (basically better athletically). MJ was also a Better 1 on 1 Defender.

Bird was a Better All Around Player IMO

**** outta here.

[MiseryCityTexas]

Prime 80s Larry Bird said it himself that Jordan was god reincarnated in the form of a basketball player. Quit rewriting history. Bird played on stacked teams in the 80s while the second best player on Jordan's 80 teams was a crackhead.

[OldSchoolBBall]

[B]Bird was a Better: Creator For Others, and Team Defender

LMAO how did I miss this gem. No. Just no. Bird was a great team defender, but Jordan was like top 2-3 all time among non-bigs in that respect.

Also disagree that he was better as a creator. As a passer, he is definitely better than Jordan, but Jordan's edge in penetrating and distorting defenses allows him to be equal or superior to Bird in creating opportunities for his teammates.

[IllegalD]

yea i kinda agree here. Kobe was more of the type to rely on natural talent and body rather than skill.

:facepalm

Except Kobe is arguably the most skilled NBA player of all time with the most moves, countermoves and best footwork. Not to mention guys like LeBron, Jordan, TMac, Carter, Wade, etc are all superior athletically than him. And only two of those are comparable to Kobe...

[KevinNYC]

however...give bird jordans body and he would have won 10+ rings
Give Bird Kobes body and he wins 7-8 rings as well
Maybe Bird's game develops entirely differently.

Bird learned all his moves and fakes and those shots where he just needed a bit of space because he wasn't jumping over people. So maybe he doesn't spend any time on that in high school or college.

[KevinNYC]

since bird lacks the work ethic to get his body back to normal after devastating injuries

if bird wrecked his knee like kobe did in the 2003 playoffs then he probably would

This is revisionist nonsense. The level of medical training and surgical procedures available in the mid 1980's is waaaaaaay behind what was available in 2003.

See Bernard King. He took a looooong time to get back where he was after his knee injury in 1985.

Basketball players did not weight train in mid 80's. It was actively discouraged by NBA coaches and trainers. It was believed to mess up your shot and slow you down. This applies to most players across the board and it certainly applied to Jordan and Bird who did not start weight training until the late 1980's

Jordan started his serious training in 1989. In fact he was one of the first basketball players to benefit from a trainer who understood modern techniques and the importance of core strength. (http://www.maxpreps.com/news/WpxTIZzCckWkptFeAcuDrw/how-michael-became-his-airness.htm)

One key to the transformation was MJ's athletic performance enhancement guru, Tim Grover. Known as the industry leader in boosting players' athletic abilities through proper training, Grover began training Jordan in 1989, and continued to do so for the remainder of his career. The training took Jordan beyond what any player, past or present, has ever accomplished. Critics went from "Can he do that?" to "How did he do that?"

A cornerstone of Grover's training is core development. A solid core will help any athlete jump higher, run faster, move quicker and reach his or her true athletic potential.

Michael didn't start lifting until like 1990/91 (http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1992-04-27/sports/9202070594_1_miami-coach-kevin-loughery-bj-armstrong-top-level)

Michael Jordan said before Sunday`s game that despite the knee and back problems, he felt stronger than ever for the playoffs because of the weight-training regimen he has been on the last year and a half.

Jordan, who works with a personal trainer and works only on his upper body, said he has gained 20 pounds.

``I never really lifted weights before because I was always afraid it would mess up my shot or slow me down,`` he said.

In fact, it was Bird's training regimen that inspired Jordan to look into weight training. This article is from 1988.

A Sleeker Bird Keeps Celtics Flying (http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1988-01-12/sports/8803210843_1_kevin-mchale-bird-a-bulls)

The rest of the National Basketball Association has already seen enough of the trimmer, closely cropped, more muscular Bird-a result of a first-ever weightlifting program over the summer.

``He doesn`t look slimmer, he is slimmer,`` said Detroit`s Isiah Thomas about Bird and his lost 20 pounds. ``And that`s all we need is something else (from Bird).``

``Just what the league needs: a quicker Larry Bird,`` Detroit coach Chuck Daly said.

Fortunately for the Bulls, Bird was slowed by Achilles` tendon problems that forced him to miss four games earlier this season. When the Bulls beat Boston 107-102 Nov. 23 in Hartford, Conn., Bird and Kevin McHale were out.

After returning to the starting lineup, Bird went on a 17-game tear where he shot 56 percent from the floor and averaged 31 points a game. His added quickness and strength resulted in 42 points and 20 rebounds in a game against Indiana in November. The new look is complete with a different hairstyle-short all the way around.

Bird`s summer vacation was spent lifting weights, running and exercising five or six days a week beginning at 6 a.m. He built himself up and set a goal of going all out for 82 regular-season games and through the playoffs. When he missed eight games last season, he said he felt like everyone was being shortchanged.

``The great ones find a way to improve themselves and come up with new weapons,`` Collins said about Bird`s weight training. ``He is one of the all- time greats.``

....

Bulls star Michael Jordan knows Bird is looking for every edge he can get.

``He doesn`t settle for just one style of play,`` Jordan said. ``He is always trying to get better and better. Perhaps he is at that time in his career where he wanted to try it (weight training). When I get to that point in my career, I might pick up a few weights.``

This was after Bird's several back injuries (including one where Michael Jordan landed on him during an off-season charity game.) Bird had his highest scoring year that year putting up
29.9, 9.3 and 6.1
This was one of the years he shot 50-40-90. So much for not getting his body back in shape.
The next season he snapped both his Achilles tendons on the same play. He had bone spurs in both feet that had been affecting him for at least a year. Do you know an effective training regimen for getting rid of bone spurs? Because I don't.

Also when the Bird-Magic book came out it was revealed he had back issues even without the injuries.


MacMullan adds that Bird had “a congenital back problem” to begin with. “The canal that led the nerves through his spine was too small. He was going to end up with those back problems anyway

Bird's work ethic was well known and he was known for his stamina. He was a dedicated runner and bicylist. The main difference is he didn't use modern training methods until injuries had already set it.