there really is no way kobe can pass MJ. and theres no way Lebron can pass Kobe

[kennethgriffin]

http://images.jordansdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/jordan-kobe-lebron-one-on-one.jpg



6 for 6 cant be beat. even if kobe wins 6 .....then hes 6 for 8

kobe cant pass MJ

5 for 7 cant be beat. even if lebron wins 5..... then hes 5 for 9 ( reality 4.5 for 9 )

Lebron cant pass Kobe




and thats assuming lebron wins 3 out of his next 3. which he wouldnt... based on lebrons current finals win% ... in order to get 5 rings lebron would need around 17 trips to the nba finals



i know theres guys who will get on here and say "well what about duncan! hes 5 for 6!"

well one of his titles is bogus anyway so hes really around 4.5


and tim is done winning titles as a #1 or #2 guy... sh*t he may not even be the 5th best


other guys might say "havlicek is 8 for 8"

well thats great and all. but hes not in contention for the top 10 all time.


yes ladies and gentlemen... its about # of rings by mvp winners...with finals win% as tie breakers ( 60s rings and lockouts getting half prestige )


#1 Jordan - 6 for 6
#2 Kareem - 6 for 10
#3 Russell - 11 for 12 ( 5.5* )
#4 Kobe - 5 for 7
#5 Magic - 5 for 9
#6 Duncan - 5 for 6 ( 4.5* )
#7 Shaq - 4 for 6
#8 Bird - 3 for 5
#9 Hakeem - 2 for 3
#10 Wilt - 2 for 6 ( 1.5* )
#11 Lebron - 2 for 6 ( 1.5* )




neither kobe or lebron can EVER catch jordan

and lebron would need a miracle to catch kobe

[Marchesk]

In all seriousness, would we consider Jordan's career to be flawed if he had gotten to Bulls to two finals before they started winning, and finished 6/8?

[red1]

You are correct. Lebron can never pass MJ and kobe can never pass lebron. Kobe has maxed out at top 10 and lebron will max out as the 2nd GOAT. It's pretty much set in stone now.

[dubeta]

and theres no way OP can get off his ass and become a productive member of society :(




Keep getting them $500 weekly checks doe

[Straight_Ballin]

and theres no way OP can get off his ass and become a productive member of society :(




Keep getting them $500 weekly checks doe

If he didn't have to constantly take care of my light work on here by correcting misinformed youths like yourself who know nothing of what defines a great basketball player, maybe he would have the time to be a productive member of society.

[LikeABosh]

Hate to break it to you little guy, but despite what a bunch of autistic Kobetards like yourself say, Lebron has already passed Kobe in the eyes of many and it's only a matter of time until Lebron over Kobe is damn near unanimous. Get over it.

[3ball]

In all seriousness, would we consider Jordan's career to be flawed if he had gotten to Bulls to two finals before they started winning, and finished 6/8?


Well, it's a strong possibility that MJ is 7/7 if Pippen doesn't have his epic choke in Game 7 of 1990 ECF (2 points on 1-10, the famous "migraines") - the Bulls likely beat Blazers in Finals, based on the fact that the Pistons beat Blazers in 6, but needed 7 and Pippen choke to beat Bulls.

Also, the concept of a perfect record is the following: if all the information we have is that MJ was 6/6, then the best bet is that he'd be 7/7, and 8/8, etc... I mean, people say Mitch Richmond could've won championship in 1994... So that means MJ is 4/4 if he doesn't retire in 1994 (and would be 5/5 had Pippen not choked in 1990).

[Wade's Rings]

http://images.jordansdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/jordan-kobe-lebron-one-on-one.jpg



6 for 6 cant be beat. even if kobe wins 6 .....then hes 6 for 8

kobe cant pass MJ

5 for 7 cant be beat. even if lebron wins 5..... then hes 5 for 9 ( reality 4.5 for 9 )

Lebron cant pass Kobe




and thats assuming lebron wins 3 out of his next 3. which he wouldnt... based on lebrons current finals win% ... in order to get 5 rings lebron would need around 17 trips to the nba finals



i know theres guys who will get on here and say "well what about duncan! hes 5 for 6!"

well one of his titles is bogus anyway so hes really around 4.5


and tim is done winning titles as a #1 or #2 guy... sh*t he may not even be the 5th best


other guys might say "havlicek is 8 for 8"

well thats great and all. but hes not in contention for the top 10 all time.


yes ladies and gentlemen... its about # of rings with finals win% as tie breakers ( 60s rings and lockouts getting half prestige )


#1 Jordan - 6 for 6
#2 Kareem - 6 for 10
#3 Russell - 11 for 12 ( 5.5* )
#4 Kobe - 5 for 7
#5 Magic - 5 for 9
#6 Duncan - 5 for 6 ( 4.5* )
#7 Shaq - 4 for 6
#8 Bird - 3 for 5
#9 Hakeem - 2 for 3
#10 Wilt - 2 for 6 ( 1.5* )
#11 Lebron - 2 for 6 ( 1.5* )




neither kobe or lebron can EVER catch jordan

and lebron would need a miracle to catch kobe

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/87/22/00/872200bdb94bbd773f5a84dd31764561.jpg

5/6 > 5/7

[Straight_Ballin]

You are correct. Lebron can never pass MJ and kobe can never pass lebron. Kobe has maxed out at top 10 and lebron will max out as the 2nd GOAT. It's pretty much set in stone now.

This isn't 2013. Bron losing a FMVP to a roll player not once but TWICE automatically makes him less than Kobe.

As a big Bron fan, he really showed his true beta colors by losing FMVPs like that. There's no coming back from it.

[kennethgriffin]

In all seriousness, would we consider Jordan's career to be flawed if he had gotten to Bulls to two finals before they started winning, and finished 6/8?


well under my criteria jordan would still technically have the most rings with the best win%


kareem has 2 more losses


however. under full ring criteria without asterisks... bill russell would technically be the goat


the media wouldnt be able to push the 6 for 6 with 6 thing anymore

it would turn into

11 for 12 with 5 mvps

vs

6 for 8 with 5 mvps


( cant really compare finals mvps... and russell would more than likely have gotten 5 or 6 at the very least )



it would be a no brainer. bill would be GOAT in the publics eye


but 6 for 6 trumps all because its unbreakable

[kennethgriffin]

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/87/22/00/872200bdb94bbd773f5a84dd31764561.jpg

5/6 > 5/7


thats if you count 1999 as a real season ... sure


i'd give the nod to duncan if that were the case


but ... its a controversial subject.

50 games is way worse than lebrons 66 game season.


i can give duncan at most 0.6 since its 0.6 worth of an nba season

0.5 is just easier to keep track of since all lockouts will be slightly different

[Straight_Ballin]

5/6 > 5/7

No one here thinks Kobe is > Duncan.

Jordan>Duncan>Kobe>Bron

Many actually believe that Bron would have a hard time outplaying Pippen in any scenario. They also believe that Bron will never win a ring without Wade.

[dubeta]

If Tony Parker wins a MVP and a FMVP next year, where would he rank?


5 for 6 with 2 FMVPs and 1 MVP


technically... wont he be...








better than Kobe???! :biggums:

[kennethgriffin]

If Tony Parker wins a MVP and FMVP next year, where would he rank?


5 for 6 with 2 FMVPs and 1 MVP


technically... wont he be...








better than Kobe???! :biggums:


youre asking a question thats completely unlikely. so i can't even put it in perspective.

thats like saying. where would paul pierce be if he won league MVP and FMVP next year


pierce would probably go from around top 40 all the way up to top top 12 all time


but its ridiculous to ponder things like that


its extremely difficult to win multiple rings/ multiple fmvps and a league mvp


which is why only 11 guys have done it

[SouBeachTalents]

No one here thinks Kobe is > Duncan.

Jordan>Duncan>Kobe>Bron

Many actually believe that Bron would have a hard time outplaying Pippen in any scenario. They also believe that Bron will never win a ring without Wade.

You mean how like Jordan never won a ring without Pippen? Or even got out of the first round?

[SouBeachTalents]

youre asking a question thats completely unlikely. so i can't even put it in perspective.

thats like saying. where would paul pierce be if he won league MVP and FMVP next year


pierce would probably go from around top 40 all the way up to top top 12 all time


but its ridiculous to ponder things like that

Lmao, coming from the guy who made a thread about Wade winning MVP/Finals MVP this year

[SouBeachTalents]

And as for the OP, people will just never comprehend that 5/7 is an idiotic argument since Kobe wasn't even close to the best player in 3 of those Finals wins. From an earlier thread


Lol at people giving Kobe the nod as the better Finals performer because of 5/7. The biggest reason he's 5/7 is because Shaq severely outplayed him in their first 3 Finals

2000 Finals
Shaq: 38/17/2 61%
Kobe: 16/5/4 37%

2001 Finals
Shaq: 33/16/5 57%
Kobe: 25/8/6 42%

2002 Finals
Shaq: 36/12/4 60%
Kobe: 27/6/5 51%

3 of the greatest Finals performances of all time. Shaq outscored Kobe by a combined 39 ppg in the Finals during that 3peat. For comparison sake, Kobe outscored Gasol in the Finals by 34 ppg from '08-'10, and LeBron outscored Bosh in the Finals by 41 ppg from '12-'14. So saying 5/7 is a reason Kobe was a greater Finals performer is ridiculous.

In the 2000 Finals alone

Shaq's rpg: 17
Kobe's ppg: 16

Shaq's ppg: 38
Kobe's fg%: 37

[dubeta]

If Tony Parker wins a MVP and a FMVP next year, where would he rank?


5 for 6 with 2 FMVPs and 1 MVP


technically... wont he be...








better than Kobe???! :biggums:


Listen EVERYONE, this question has KENNETH SHOOK


He has 0 way of dodging this..




This destroys his argument




Tony Parker >> Kobe


:lol :lol

[kennethgriffin]

No one here thinks Kobe is > Duncan.

Jordan>Duncan>Kobe>Bron

Many actually believe that Bron would have a hard time outplaying Pippen in any scenario. They also believe that Bron will never win a ring without Wade.


ISH is a big mans forum

so are most message boards... stat geeks love their big men

its all about that efficiency and close shots "anchors!"

:lol



still... 4.5*

[DMV2]

Jordan winning MVP, Finals MVP, ring in the same year. Did it 4 times.

LeBron winning MVP, Finals MVP, ring in the same year. Did it twice.

Kobe never did that.

Conclusion:
Jordan is twice the player LeBron is. LeBron is twice the player Kobe ever was.

[3ball]

#1 Jordan - 6 for 6
#2 Kareem - 6 for 10
#3 Russell - 11 for 12 ( 5.5* )
#4 Kobe - 5 for 7
#5 Magic - 5 for 9
#6 Duncan - 5 for 6 ( 4.5* )
#7 Shaq - 4 for 6
#8 Bird - 3 for 5
#9 Hakeem - 2 for 3
#10 Wilt - 2 for 6 ( 1.5* )
#11 Lebron - 2 for 6 ( 1.5* )


Well, it's a strong possibility that MJ is 7/7 if Pippen doesn't have his epic choke in Game 7 of 1990 ECF (2 points on 1-10, the famous "migraines") - the Bulls likely beat Blazers in Finals, based on the fact that the Pistons beat Blazers in 6, but needed 7 and Pippen choke to beat Bulls.

Also, the concept of a perfect record is the following: if all the information we have is that MJ was 6/6, then the best bet is that he'd be 7/7, and 8/8, etc... I mean, people say Mitch Richmond could've won championship in 1994... So that means MJ is 4/4 if he doesn't retire in 1994 (and would be 5/5 had Pippen not choked in 1990).

[plowking]

Well, it's a strong possibility that MJ is 7/7 if Pippen doesn't have his epic choke in Game 7 of 1990 ECF (2 points on 1-10, the famous "migraines") - the Bulls likely beat Blazers in Finals, based on the fact that the Pistons beat Blazers in 6, but needed 7 and Pippen choke to beat Bulls.

Also, the concept of a perfect record is the following: if all the information we have is that MJ was 6/6, then the best bet is that he'd be 7/7, and 8/8, etc... I mean, people say Mitch Richmond could've won championship in 1994... So that means MJ is 4/4 if he doesn't retire in 1994 (and would be 5/5 had Pippen not choked in 1990).

You and kenneth are undoubtedly the dumbest posters on this site.

kenneth for the pure fact alone that he is deluded enough to think that championships mean everything, and that his ambiguous rankings actually mean a damn.

You, for the reasoning of being blinded by Jordan's nuts, constantly hitting your eyes as he rest his package on your forehead. Way to blame everything on Pip, while ignoring how average Jordan was in certain finals', and series' building up to the finals. Jordan had one of, if not, the most talented teams ever.
Not to mention how much luck and circumstance goes into winning a championship. Acting as if 7/7 or 8/8 is a foregone conclusion.

[kennethgriffin]

Listen EVERYONE, this question has KENNETH SHOOK


He has 0 way of dodging this..




This destroys his argument




Tony Parker >> Kobe


:lol :lol




ok .. if parker wins a finals mvp/ title/ league mvp next season


i promise mr dubeta. i will bow down to tony parker

[ShaqTwizzle]

Kobe can never approach Shaq so he certainly can't pass MJ.

Peak (00-04 Shaq) >>> Peak (06-10) Kobe

The gap between their non-Peak years is even bigger.

Playoff stats
--------
93-99 Shaq = 27.3 / 11.1 / 3.3 on .57%*TS --- (27.1 PER)
99-05 Kobe = 25.5 / 5.5 / 5.1 on .52%*TS --- (21.2 PER)

Longevity
--------
Shaq = 93-06 (14 years)
Kobe = 00-12 (13 years)

Yeah... get off the drugs man.
I have Kobe around #11 or #12 with the legendary Jerry West.

Any Top 50 guy could have 3peated with Shaq.
Not like Kobe put up amazing numbers outside of their 01 run.

[Wade's Rings]

thats if you count 1999 as a real season ... sure


i'd give the nod to duncan if that were the case


but ... its a controversial subject.

50 games is way worse than lebrons 66 game season.


i can give duncan at most 0.6 since its 0.6 worth of an nba season

0.5 is just easier to keep track of since all lockouts will be slightly different

1999 is a real NBA Season, what would be more controversial is the team he faced in the Finals.


No one here thinks Kobe is > Duncan.

Jordan>Duncan>Kobe>Bron

Many actually believe that Bron would have a hard time outplaying Pippen in any scenario. They also believe that Bron will never win a ring without Wade.

This is true.

[dubeta]

Spurs are the favourties next season


Tony Parker is gonna surpass Kobe all time


5/6 > 5/7:lol

[kennethgriffin]

Kobe can never approach Shaq so he certainly can't pass MJ.

Peak (00-04 Shaq) >>> Peak (06-10) Kobe

The gap between their non-Peak years is even bigger.

Playoff stats
--------
93-99 Shaq = 27.3 / 11.1 / 3.3 on .573%TS --- (27.1 PER)
99-05 Kobe = 25.5 / 5.5 / 5.1 on .521%TS --- (21.2 PER)

Longevity
--------
Shaq = 93-06 (14 years)
Kobe = 00-12 (13 years)

Yeah... get off the drugs man.
I have Kobe around #11 or #12 with the legendary Jerry West.

Any Top 50 guy could have 3peated with Shaq.
Not like Kobe put up amazing numbers outside of their 01 run.



dude 5 > 4


2 without > 1 without


1 franchise > journeyman

[3ball]

Well, it's a strong possibility that MJ is 7/7 if Pippen doesn't have his epic choke in Game 7 of 1990 ECF (2 points on 1-10, the famous "migraines") - the Bulls likely beat Blazers in Finals, based on the fact that the Pistons beat Blazers in 6, but needed 7 and Pippen choke to beat Bulls.

Also, the concept of a perfect record is the following: if all the information we have is that MJ was 6/6, then the best bet is that he'd be 7/7, and 8/8, etc... I mean, people say Mitch Richmond could've won championship in 1994... So that means MJ is 4/4 if he doesn't retire in 1994 (and would be 5/5 had Pippen not choked in 1990).




You and kenneth are undoubtedly the dumbest posters on this site... Acting as if 7/7 or 8/8 is a foregone conclusion.


You have to understand - 6/6 without loss is a decent sample - certainly, if vegas was putting odds of MJ going 7/7 in a hypothetical 7th Finals appearance, MJ would be the favorite... :confusedshrug:

You have to accept the reality that MJ's off-ball style fostered and allowed his team to play the best brand of basketball (equal-opportunity) - this meant that equal or less-talented teams could never pull upsets by playing a better brand of basketball - since MJ's team always played to capacity, the most likely scenario every time he has a team good enough to make the Finals is that they win it.

[dubeta]

Wait, the criteria isnt even MVPs


Just FMVP and finals records



So ..




Tony Parker... simply needs to just win FMVP next season


:lol :lol



All he has to do is score 15-17 points to Duncans 15 points, not hard at all



All he needs to do is score 17 points and win a FMVP


This is HIGHLY LIKELY, if you look at the favourites right now, its the Spurs


And the favourite to win FMVP for the Spurs is Tony Parker



Theres a legit 50% chance of this happening next season



SO.. 5/6 with 2 FMVPs is >>> ... Kobe :lol








Chances are Kobe moves behind Tony Parker all-time next season :lol

[kennethgriffin]

Spurs are the favourties next season


Tony Parker is gonna surpass Kobe all time


5/6 > 5/7:lol


ok

:rolleyes:


parker winning a league mvp is probably 1 in 50 billion btw


i'l bet my account and IP ban myself if parker ever gets one

[plowking]

You have to understand - 6/6 without loss is a decent sample - certainly, if vegas was putting odds of MJ going 7/7 in a hypothetical 7th Finals appearance, MJ would be the favorite... :confusedshrug:

You have to accept the reality that MJ's off-ball style fostered and allowed his team to play the best brand of basketball (equal-opportunity) - this meant that equal or less-talented teams could never pull upsets by playing a better brand of basketball - since MJ's team always played to capacity, the most likely scenario every time he has a team good enough to make the Finals is that they win it.

Cool, MJ's teams carried him when he played poorly, while Lebron's can't carry him. Got it. Guess there is a reason MJ can win series with 27ppg on 41% shooting, while Lebron puts up 36ppg on 40% shooting and loses.

[kennethgriffin]

Wait, the criteria isnt even MVPs


Just FMVP and finals records



So ..




Tony Parker... simply needs to just win FMVP next season


:lol :lol



All he has to do is score 15-17 points to Duncans 15 points, not hard at all



All he needs to do is score 17 points and win a FMVP


This is HIGHLY LIKELY, if you look at the favourites right now, its the Spurs


And the favourite to win FMVP for the Spurs is Tony Parker



Theres a legit 50% chance of this happening next season



SO.. 5/6 with 2 FMVPs is >>> ... Kobe :lol








Chances are Kobe moves behind Tony Parker all-time next season :lol


based on havlicek and wades rankings. a league mvp is pretty much a pre requisite for top 10 all time status


give havlicek a league mvp and he goes from 19-20th all time all the way up to top 3-4 all time


its a club membership ... rings by mvp winners has always been a general acceptance in top 10 rankings

only recently have people instituted finals records as a tie breaker

[dubeta]

Stop moving the goal posts.. that wasnt your original criteria


Tony Parker... simply needs to just win FMVP next season






All he has to do is score 15-17 points to Duncans 15 points, not hard at all



All he needs to do is score 17 points and win a FMVP


This is HIGHLY LIKELY, if you look at the favourites right now, its the Spurs


And the favourite to win FMVP for the Spurs is Tony Parker



Theres a legit 50% chance of this happening next season



SO.. 5/6 with 2 FMVPs is >>> ... Kobe

[dubeta]

Kenneth just admitted that this guy will be greater all-time than Kobe Bryant next season, his own logic


http://l3.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/Ble5eH9ay9msJrKxccUMLw--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3NfbGVnbztpbD1wbGFuZTtxPTc1O3c9NjAw/http://media.zenfs.com/en/person/Ysports/tony-parker-basketball-headshot-photo.jpg





:lol :lol

[Straight_Ballin]

You and kenneth are undoubtedly the dumbest posters on this site.

kenneth for the pure fact alone that he is deluded enough to think that championships mean everything, and that his ambiguous rankings actually mean a damn.

You, for the reasoning of being blinded by Jordan's nuts, constantly hitting your eyes as he rest his package on your forehead. Way to blame everything on Pip, while ignoring how average Jordan was in certain finals', and series' building up to the finals. Jordan had one of, if not, the most talented teams ever.
Not to mention how much luck and circumstance goes into winning a championship. Acting as if 7/7 or 8/8 is a foregone conclusion.

At the end of the day, Lebron got manhandled by role players like Kwahi and Iggy and they won FMVP by single coverage on Lebron. When in the hell did Kobe or Duncan or Jordan get covered by a role player and shut down so badly that the role player won the FMVP? Teammates are irrelevant here. You either are good enough to best a role player that is covering you under single coverage or you aren't. It really is that simple. That is why Lebron James will never be on the same level as those guys. Ring count and finals win/loss ratio is just the tip of the iceberg.

[ShaqTwizzle]

dude 5 > 4

Ring counting here doesn't mean much when Kobe won 3 of his 5 as a sidekick to the man (Shaq) himself and 2/5 as a Pippen level sidekick.

00 Kobe = 20.3 / 4.5-apg on 52%TS in LAL's 15 playoff wins
02 Kobe = 26 / 4.4-apg on 49%TS against the West

Peak wise they aren't close.
Prime wise they are even less close.
Shaq even had better longevity.

Kobe will never be close to Shaq in terms of ATRanking in any reasonable mans mind.
Sorry.

[dubeta]

Lebron averaged 32/11/7 on 47% the last 2 finals


Those are better numbers than Jordans finals average


lol shutdown

kek


:lol

[kennethgriffin]

Kenneth just admitted that this guy will be greater all-time than Kobe Bryant next season, his own logic


http://l3.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/Ble5eH9ay9msJrKxccUMLw--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3NfbGVnbztpbD1wbGFuZTtxPTc1O3c9NjAw/http://media.zenfs.com/en/person/Ysports/tony-parker-basketball-headshot-photo.jpg





:lol :lol

assuming hell freezes over and parker gets


1. a title

2. a finals mvp

3. a season mvp

and

4. never loses in the finals again



sure dubeta. youre right


:applause:

[kennethgriffin]

dubeta doesnt realize the importance of having a finals mvp and league mvp combined


1 without the other is common


having both is very rare




derrick rose would go from barely top 200 all time all the way into the top 25-30 all time if he won a title and finals mvp ... then finished out his career as a perennial allstar

[dubeta]

If the voters didnt want to give Kobe a lifetime achievement award MVP, and rightfully gave the award to CP3, would you admit that Kobe doesnt belong in the top 10 then??


Is that one lucky MVP Kobe got, justification for top 10??


:lol

[kennethgriffin]

If the voters didnt want to give Kobe a lifetime achievement award MVP, and rightfully gave the award to CP3, would you admit that Kobe doesnt belong in the top 10 then??


Is that one lucky MVP Kobe got, justification for top 10??


:lol


sucks for you i guess

[SouBeachTalents]

dubeta doesnt realize the importance of having a finals mvp and league mvp combined


1 without the other is common


having both is very rare




derrick rose would go from barely top 200 all time all the way into the top 30 all time if he won a title and finals mvp ... then finished out his career as a perennial allstar







Moses & Dirk have won MVP & Finals MVP and they're never mentioned in the top 10 all time. Hell Moses, won 3 MVP's and he's not EVER mentioned in the top 10, while Dirk's not even a consensus top 15 player all time. And ask Willis Reed (2 Finals MVP's) and Bill Walton how highly ranked they are these days

[3ball]

Cool, MJ's teams carried him when he played poorly, while Lebron's can't carry him. Got it. Guess there is a reason MJ can win series with 27ppg on 41% shooting, while Lebron puts up 36ppg on 40% shooting and loses.


Lebron's teams aren't capable of playing to capacity alongside him.

So prepare yourself for more Finals losses, empty stats achieved via playground, clearout style that has zero chance of beating a championship-level team, and more horrific efficiency if he chooses to shoot at high volume again..

Also, it was a tougher era back then, so MJ needed to achieve better stats to win than Lebron has needed to win - do I really need to post MJ's playoff and Finals stats compared to Lebron's??... We both know they blow Lebron's away.

[kennethgriffin]

Moses & Dirk have won MVP & Finals MVP and they're never mentioned in the top 10 all time. Hell Moses, won 3 MVP's and he's not EVER mentioned in the top 10, while Dirk's not even a consensus top 15 player all time. And ask Willis Reed (2 Finals MVP's) and Bill Walton how highly ranked they are these days


because neither have enough titles


if dirk or moses had 2 titles theyed be ahead of wilt/bron and battling for that 10 spot


2 full titles are better than 1.5

[dubeta]

sucks for you i guess


If CP3 won one more game in the regular season, and wins MVP Kobe isnt top 20 all time then??


Do you admit that Kobe was one CP3 regular season win away from not being top 20 all time? :lol


Dont dodge this question you unemployed scum

[kennethgriffin]

bill and willis get a nock due to not playing at a high level long enough


like i said with the derrick rose comment. i said he has to win a title/finals mvp and finish his career as a perennial allstar

[kennethgriffin]

If CP3 won one more game in the regular season, and wins MVP Kobe isnt top 20 all time then??


Do you admit that Kobe was one CP3 regular season win away from not being top 20 all time? :lol


Dont dodge this question you unemployed scum



if kobe never won league mvp he would probably be around where jerry west is... top 13-14


instead of top 5-6





i'l say it again... sucks for you eh dubey

[kennethgriffin]

kobe basically needs to be 7 for 9 and pass kareem in all time points in order to have an argument over jordan


lebron basically needs to be 6 for 10 to pass kobe... and be 7 for 11/ pass kareem in all time points in order to pass jordan



these are the only scenarios i can see... and theyre very unlikely

[dubeta]

FMVPS with FMVP ratio as a tie breaker


1. Jordan 6 FMVP 6/6

2. Shaq 3 FMVPS 3/4

3. Magic 3 FMVPS 3/5

4. Duncan 3 FMVPs 3/5

5. LeBron 2 FMVPS 2/2

6. Hakeem 2 FMVPS 2/2

7. Bird 2 FMVPS 2/3

8. Wilt 2 FMVPS 2/2

etc


Seems like a better gauge of true player greatness

[SouBeachTalents]

kobe basically needs to be 7 for 9 and pass kareem in all time points in order to have an argument over jordan


lebron basically needs to be 6 for 10 to pass kobe... and be 7 for 11/ pass kareem in all time points in order to pass jordan



these are the only scenarios i can see... and theyre very unlikely

How doesn't LeBron unquestionably pass Kobe with a 3rd Finals MVP?

[kennethgriffin]

FMVPS with FMVP ratio as a tie breaker


1. Jordan 6 FMVP 6/6

2. Magic 3 FMVPS 3/5

3. Duncan 3 FMVPs 3/5

4. Shaq 3 FMVPS 3/5

5. LeBron 2 FMVPS 2/2

6. Hakeem 2 FMVPS 2/2

7. Bird 2 FMVPS 2/3

8. Wilt 2 FMVPS 2/2

etc


Seems like a better gauge of true player greatness


whats shaq 3 for 5 in?

youre not very good at formulas. you cant even define your criteria


and i dunno about a list that doesnt have kareem top 5

[plowking]

I swear I get dumber every time I read a post from 3ball or kenneth.

[KG215]

[IMG]

5 for 7 cant be beat. even if lebron wins 5..... then hes 5 for 9 ( reality 4.5 for 9 )
No, reality says LeBron is 2/5 or would be 5/9 in this made up scenario. You giving him half a ring for a lockout season title isn't reality.


Lebron cant pass Kobe
Sure he can. He's a better basketball player than Kobe.



i know theres guys who will get on here and say "well what about duncan! hes 5 for 6!"

well one of his titles is bogus anyway so hes really around 4.5
Again, reality says Duncan is 5/6. That's better than Kobe. Either way, 4.5/6 = 75% and 5/7 = 71%. So even in your made up, subjective convoluted bulllshit scenario, Duncan > Kobe.


and tim is done winning titles as a #1 or #2 guy... sh*t he may not even be the 5th best
He's never been below the 2nd best player on any of his 5 championship teams, and he's arguably been the most important player on all 5 and at least 4 of the 5.
[/QUOTE]

[kennethgriffin]

How doesn't LeBron unquestionably pass Kobe with a 3rd Finals MVP?


how long have you been a lebron fan?

:oldlol:

[kennethgriffin]

No, reality says LeBron is 2/5 or would be 5/9 in this made up scenario. You giving him half a ring for a lockout season title isn't reality.


Sure he can. He's a better basketball player than Kobe.



Again, reality says Duncan is 5/6. That's better than Kobe. Either way, 4.5/6 = 75% and 5/7 = 71%. So even in your made up, subjective convoluted bulllshit scenario, Duncan > Kobe.


He's never been below the 2nd best player on any of his 5 championship teams, and he's arguably been the most important player on all 5 and at least 4 of the 5.



lebrons 2 for 6 in reality. not 2 for 5

in context hes 1.5 for 6


how on earth is lebron better than kobe? because hes got stats? hes literally one of the biggest chokers/underachievers of all time. his only comparison is wilt. and hes half the player wilt was.



and like i said. duncan in a perfect world is 5 for 6. but in a world with context he has a bogus 50 game season title

duncan was the 3rd man in 2014 and wouldnt even be top 5 if they won this year

[SouBeachTalents]

how long have you been a lebron fan?

:oldlol:

Don't duck the question, you're the one who judges a players ranking by MVP/Finals MVP, so how wouldn't a 4x MVP/3x Finals MVP be ranked higher than a 1x MVP/2x Finals MVP?

[3ball]

Cool, MJ's teams carried him when he played poorly, while Lebron's can't carry him. Got it. Guess there is a reason MJ can win series with 27ppg on 41% shooting, while Lebron puts up 36ppg on 40% shooting and loses.


Lebron won in 2013 despite averaging 25 ppg on 44.8% shooting and scoring less than 20 points in the FIRST 3 games (as opposed to MJ's 22, 26, and 23 points in the LAST 3 games of 96' Finals in garbage time when the series was over.. MJ has never scored less than 20 points in any Finals game, yet Lebron did it 3 times in one series and won the series, thanks to HOF Ray Allen saving his ass, plus HOF Wade and HOF Bosh).

Also, you should understand that Lebron's teams aren't capable of playing to capacity alongside him... So prepare yourself for more Finals losses, empty stats achieved via playground, clearout style that has zero chance of beating a championship-level team, and more horrific efficiency if he chooses to shoot at high volume again..

Also, it was a tougher era back then, so MJ needed to achieve better stats to win than Lebron has needed to win - do I really need to post MJ's playoff and Finals stats compared to Lebron's??... We both know they blow Lebron's away.

[dubeta]

Don't duck the question, you're the one who judges a players ranking by MVP/Finals MVP, so how wouldn't a 4x MVP/3x Finals MVP be ranked higher than a 1x MVP/2x Finals MVP?

Got 'em

:yaohappy:


little kenny boy shook

[dubeta]

Duncan's 1999 and LeBrons 2012 is worth 0.5 rings, yet Kobes 15 ppg on 35% Finals is a full credit 1.0 ring?




Funniest thing I've heard all day


:yaohappy:

[stalkerforlife]

kenneth got the Kobe haters shook.

And he's right.

[kennethgriffin]

Don't duck the question, you're the one who judges a players ranking by MVP/Finals MVP, so how wouldn't a 4x MVP/3x Finals MVP be ranked higher than a 1x MVP/2x Finals MVP?


its about # of rings by mvp winners


see moses

see wade

see parker

see lebron

see havlicek

see kareem

see players throughout history who lacked in rings but had mvps

see players throughout history who lacked an mvp but had fmvps

see players throughout history who lacked fmvps but had an mvp




all these players and many more have a clear ranking based on ring counts by tier

you get a tier/status by joining the MVP club, FMVP club, or both clubs

to make the top 10 you need both

to climb the top 10 after that you need rings



if it was about mvps... moses would be way higher

if it was about finals mvps.. kareem would be way lower

if it wasnt about rings or finals records... wilt would be way higher

[kennethgriffin]

Duncan's 1999 and LeBrons 2012 is worth 0.5 rings, yet Kobes 15 ppg on 35% Finals is a full credit 1.0 ring?




Funniest thing I've heard all day


:yaohappy:



kobe saved the season didnt he?

twice infact


19ppg was his real finals average btw


2000 was legit. you never hear anyone in the media bashing it


but i've seen asterisk lockout articles and stories before

[dubeta]

Kobe was 1 Chris Paul regular season win away from being top 20 :lol

[Straight_Ballin]

kenneth got the Kobe haters shook.

And he's right.

At least he understand Kobe will never surpass Jordan. Granted, it took me some time to make him aware of that fact but you still have Bron fam on here that didn't listen to logic well before Bron ever joined the heat that he would never sniff Jordan. And what happened? 2/6 and 2 FMVP losses to role players. That's about as beta as it gets. Chosen one my ass. :lol

[kennethgriffin]

Kobe was 1 Chris Paul regular season win away from being top 20 :lol


and lebron was 1 ray allen miss away from being top 20

:lol

[ShaqTwizzle]

kobe saved the season didnt he?

twice infact


Twice?
You realize that in G4 of the 2000 Finals Kobe scored 20pts on 43%TS during regulation.
The only reason they even needed an OT in that game is because Kobe played so badly during regulation.

So no he didn't "save" that game.
Just more revisionist Kobe history cherry picking the good moments while ignoring all the bad ones.

He was also either irrelevant or terrible in the rest of the series.
Was a borderline miracle that Shaq came through with a 40/20 series and somehow managed to get it done with such shitty support.

[dubeta]

At least he understand Kobe will never surpass Jordan. Granted, it took me some time to make him aware of that fact but you still have Bron fam on here that didn't listen to logic well before Bron ever joined the heat that he would never sniff Jordan. And what happened? 2/6 and 2 FMVP losses to role players. That's about as beta as it gets. Chosen one my ass. :lol

Its not that hard to understand bro



1-9..




You're making it sound like it takes a miracle to surpass MJ :lol



When in reality he's 1-9



ESPN totally brainwashed you stans into buying the "MJ is GOAT Kool-aid"

[KG215]

lebrons 2 for 6 in reality. not 2 for 5

in context hes 1.5 for 6
My bad. I guess I should obsess over how many rings Player A has in X number of tries like you do.



how on earth is lebron better than kobe? because hes got stats? hes literally one of the biggest chokers/underachievers of all time. his only comparison is wilt. and hes half the player wilt was.
Because virtually every statistical (raw and advanced) says he is. That, and the eye test and my personal opinion.


and like i said. duncan in a perfect world is 5 for 6. but in a world with context he has a bogus 50 game season title
Context? Hilarious coming from the most delusional Kobe fanboy on ISH who is notorious for ignoring context 99% of the time because it doesn't fit his agenda. Again, in reality Duncan is 5/6. Just because you deem a lockout season worth half a ring doesn't mean it's reality or even contextualized.


duncan was the 3rd man in 2014 and wouldnt even be top 5 if they won this year
No, he was at the very least 2nd and has a case for best on the 2014 team. He was 2nd in scoring, 1st in rebounds, 4th in assists, and 1st in blocks on the team in the playoffs. He was also 1st in PER and 1st in winshares. Anyone that watched that series and has two eyes and a brain and doesn't have an agenda to push would say he was no worse than the Spurs 2nd best/most important player during the 2014 title run.

And wouldn't even be top 5 this year if they won? Based on what? Your delusions and "Kobe > Duncan" agenda? Because very recent history tells us that it's highly unlikely he'd be worse than 3rd best/most important. Saying he wouldn't even be top 5 is hilariously stupid

[kennethgriffin]

Twice?
You realize that in G4 of the 2000 Finals Kobe scored 20pts on 43%TS during regulation.
The only reason they even needed an OT in that game is because Kobe played so badly during regulation.

So no he didn't "save" that game.
Just more revisionist Kobe history cherry picking the good moments while ignoring all the bad ones.

He was also either irrelevant or terrible in the rest of the series.
Was a borderline miracle that Shaq came through with a 40/20 series and somehow managed to get it done with such shitty support.



game 1 - lakers won
game 2 - lakers won
game 3 - indiana won
game 4 - indiana wins INSTEAD
game 5 - indiana won

youre telling me after indiana wins 3 straight with game 4 being overturned... that indiana doesnt have all the momentum in their favor?

indy wins 1 of games 6 or 7 to take the series


kobe saved the nba finals




and his 1st time saving the year was vs portland in game 7 when he lead the lakers in points, rebounds, assists and blocks and lead their 15 point comeback in the 4th quarter


kobe saved the year TWICE

[kennethgriffin]

My bad. I guess I should obsess over how many rings Player A has in X number of tries like you do.



Because virtually every statistical (raw and advanced) says he is. That, and the eye test and my personal opinion.


Context? Hilarious coming from the most delusional Kobe fanboy on ISH who is notorious for ignoring context 99% of the time because it doesn't fit his agenda. Again, in reality Duncan is 5/6. Just because you deem a lockout season worth half a ring doesn't mean it's reality or even contextualized.


No, he was at the very least 2nd and has a case for best on the 2014 team. He was 2nd in scoring, 1st in rebounds, 4th in assists, and 1st in blocks on the team in the playoffs. He was also 1st in PER and 1st in winshares. Anyone that watched that series and has two eyes and a brain and doesn't have an agenda to push would say he was no worse than the Spurs 2nd best/most important player during the 2014 title run.


lebron is not better than kobe


advanced stats and personal opinions dont count for much bro

sorry

[KG215]

lebron is not better than kobe


advanced stats and personal opinions dont count for much bro

sorry
Any argument about "Player A > Player B" is 100% opinion. You believing Kobe > LeBron is 100% opinion.

:roll:

[kennethgriffin]

Any argument about "Player A > Player B" is 100% opinion. You believing Kobe > LeBron is 100% opinion.

:roll:

and majority opinion rules


pretty much every poll ive ever seen has kobe over lebron

[red1]

Any argument about "Player A > Player B" is 100% opinion. You believing Kobe > LeBron is 100% opinion.

:roll:
:roll:

[KG215]

and majority opinion rules


pretty much every poll ive ever seen has kobe over lebron
And have any of those polls been done in the last 4-5 years since LeBron started winning rings?

[kennethgriffin]

And have any of those polls been done in the last 4-5 years since LeBron started winning rings?


well there was this one from a week ago

http://www.easypolls.net/poll.html?p=55f9b7e3e4b0a042a1df639a

and didnt ISH just have a top 50 greatest vote last year where lebron was voted 11th

[3ball]

Lebron's teammates aren't capable of playing to capacity alongside him - this is statistical fact - so Lebron fans should prepare themselves for:

1) more Finals losses

2) more empty stats achieved via playground, clearout style that has zero chance of beating a championship-level team

3) more horrific efficiency if he chooses to shoot at high volume again..

[SouBeachTalents]

well there was this one from a week ago

http://www.easypolls.net/poll.html?p=55f9b7e3e4b0a042a1df639a

and didnt ISH just have a top 50 greatest vote last year where lebron was voted 11th

You're referencing the poll you said this about


the only L's being handed out are to whoever wins this poll..


i did select no multiple votes. but apparently clearing your history does enable you to vote twice


so in the end the winner of this poll is the losing fan base


it seems the kobe fans have given up. they have better things to do i guess

:lol

[KG215]

well there was this one from a week ago

http://www.easypolls.net/poll.html?p=55f9b7e3e4b0a042a1df639a

and didnt ISH just have a top 50 greatest vote last year where lebron was voted 11th
:facepalm

So all you can give me is a poll where people could vote as many times as they wanted, and that got ripped to shreds by posters that proved your "foolproof" poll wasn't "foolproof"? That's all you got? A poll that turned into a contest between Kobe stans and LeBron stans and whose fanboys could vote the most? Didn't your dumbass even admit that the winner of the poll is the losing fanbase or some shit like that?

:roll:

You'll have to excuse for me not taking the opinion of a message board that is one massive pissing contest between Kobe and LeBron fanboys seriously.

[Straight_Ballin]

Its not that hard to understand bro



1-9..




You're making it sound like it takes a miracle to surpass MJ :lol



When in reality he's 1-9




ESPN totally brainwashed you stans into buying the "MJ is GOAT Kool-aid"

6/6....how hard is it for you to understand that what matters is what happens on the biggest stage. If these non finals stats is the best rebuttal you have for me, then you must be really insecure about Bron.

[3ball]

Lebron's style prevents teammates from playing to capacity alongside him - this is statistical fact - with teammates playing less than full capacity, Lebron's teams underperform and lose in Finals.

Otoh, MJ's style allowed teammates to play to capacity alongside him, so the team never underachieved - therefore, it shouldn't be a surprise that anytime MJ had a team good enough to make the Finals, they won it.

[Naero]

Only another stan-driven Kobe-, LeBron-, and Michael Jordan-debate thread could have reached six pages within 2 hours outside of the regular season...

[dubeta]

3ball, would you say MJs teammates overachieved in 1994, or did they play to their capacity?






If they overacheived, What does that say about Jordan's negative sub-optimal impact on their team?





If they played to their capacity, then why does adding Jordan on top of that team lead to only 2 more wins (57 vs 55 wins?) What does that say about Jordans impact?





Which one are you picking?

[kennethgriffin]

:facepalm

So all you can give me is a poll where people could vote as many times as they wanted, and that got ripped to shreds by posters that proved your "foolproof" poll wasn't "foolproof"? That's all you got? A poll that turned into a contest between Kobe stans and LeBron stans and whose fanboys could vote the most? Didn't your dumbass even admit that the winner of the poll is the losing fanbase or some shit like that?

:roll:

You'll have to excuse for me not taking the opinion of a message board that is one massive pissing contest between Kobe and LeBron fanboys seriously.


there literally was an ISH vote last year after the 2014 finals


lebron was 11th

behind both kobe and duncan


do you agree with this atleast?



and i dont see how 1 more finals loss brings him any closer

[ZMonkey11]

I think you are somehow related to Donald Trump kenneth. You are top tier verbal vomit. I know you are gunning for goat. You are right there man.

[Kblaze8855]

About three or four of you take this shit to a point it seems genuinely unhealthy. even by the lax standards of a message board community you manage to to stand out as irrationally obsessed and I don't know how adults allow themselves to reach that point.

Dubeta at least is about 15....so that's a bit of a pass.

[3ball]

If they played to their capacity, then why does adding Jordan on top of that team lead to only 2 more wins (57 vs 55 wins?) What does that say about Jordans impact?


I pick this one... Remember, the Bulls had the same roster back in 1989 as they had in 1994.. But they couldn't have won 55 games in 1989.. So obviously, the journey towards having 55-win capability was an accumulative one... The accumulation of once-in-a-generation 3-peat chemistry, execution, and strategy enabled the Bulls to win 55 games in 1994.

The accumulative dynamic is also evident by evaluating the sheer talent on the team in 1994 - like all of MJ's teams, the team had very little talent in 1994, other than Pippen.. Kukoc was a Harrison Barnes-level player with worse defense.. The team's lack of talented scorers is why the Bulls needed MJ to lead the league in scoring for all of their 6 championships.. So again, the 55 wins wasn't due to having a bunch of talented scorers, it was due to the very rare, 3-peat caliber of team chemistry, execution and strategy that was accumulated by 3-peating with MJ.

Of course, none of this means 2 bird shits when the competition increases in the playoffs - in the playoffs, you need more than just teamwork to win... You need PLAYERS that can produce, which is what MJ provided... That's why when the 1994 playoffs measured the Bulls TRUE ability without MJ, they were only an ordinary 2nd round exit team, which is a goat drop-off from not 1, not 2, but a three-peat with MJ.. Fortunately, MJ came back and validated his 2nd Round to 3-peat impact by returning the Bulls to 3-peat glory, beginning in his first full season back.. How many guys take 2 years off and return as the best with 3-peat and 3 FMVP's.... Only the goat has those kind of stories.

[ShaqTwizzle]

I think you are somehow related to Donald Trump kenneth.

Hey hey now.
No reason to insult Trump like that.

http://i60.tinypic.com/6yp8iq.jpg

He is going to make America great again!

[Coach Eddie]

LeBron could pass Kobe, but the rest I agree with.

[kennethgriffin]

About three or four of you take this shit to a point it seems genuinely unhealthy. even by the lax standards of a message board community you manage to to stand out as irrationally obsessed and I don't know how adults allow themselves to reach that point.

Dubeta at least is about 15....so that's a bit of a pass.


and this is why youre a mod. congrats.

:lol


you dont understand us because you don't have a passionate feeling for any subject

youre a casual fan and will never understand


not that theres anything wrong with that. youre lucky in a way. you can easly brush off everything

but at the same time you'l more than likely not get the same enjoyment out of seeing your favourite player/team succeed or a hated player fail


it all comes back 10 fold when you put in the work

[kennethgriffin]

i think on a scale of 1 to 10.. my enjoyment level of watching the cavs lose the last 2 years was probably a 9.9

thats nearly as good as seeing kobe win. which is a 10 out of 10


literally at the end of the year i've been rewarded in

2000
2001
2002
2007
2009
2010
2011
2014
2015


its as if i've felt the excitement of winning 9 championships

how many fans can say that?

thats from hard work and dedication to being a loyal fan

[3ball]

Hey hey now.
No reason to insult Trump like that.

http://i60.tinypic.com/6yp8iq.jpg

He is going to make America great again!
His tax plan is a good idea, at least the part about lowering corporate tax rate to 15%.

There are a lot of things the country has needed to do for a long time, and this is one of them - people don't realize that this would provide the economy with the largest short-term boost (several years) it's ever had.

The massive short-term economic growth pays for much of tax cuts.

[GrapeApe]

I haven't read through this thread so it's probably been mentioned, but it's completely idiotic to penalize a player for making the finals. By OP's logic it's better to lose in the first round or miss the playoffs altogether than lose in the finals. Magic is somehow behind Kobe because he was able to make 2 more finals? It's absurd logic.

[3ball]

I haven't read through this thread so it's probably been mentioned, but it's completely idiotic to penalize a player for making the finals. By OP's logic it's better to lose in the first round or miss the playoffs altogether than lose in the finals. Magic is somehow behind Kobe because he was able to make 2 more finals? It's absurd logic.


When a team loses in the Finals, that means they wouldn't have even MADE the Finals if that team was in the other conference - this is a fact - for example, if the 2011 or 2014 Heat were in the West, they wouldn't have made the Finals - obviously the Spurs and Mavs are the Western Conference representatives in those years.

So if all of Lebron's TEAMS had been in the West instead, Lebron would only have 2 Finals appearances in his entire career (2012 and 2013).. This is why no one respects just MAKING the Finals - obviously, 10 straight Finals losses < 1 Finals win, because those 10 losses means those teams don't even make the Finals in the other conference.

The reality is that Lebron is the first player where merely making the Finals is viewed as equal to winning the championship.. This is a narrative the media has created - it's easier than having to explain that Lebron's suboptimal style simply prevents his teams from having championship-caliber chemistry - the only 2 times he won were because he had sufficient talent to overcome non-championship-caliber chemistry (i.e it's statistical fact that the Heat were worse when Lebron and Wade were on the floor together).

[kennethgriffin]

I haven't read through this thread so it's probably been mentioned, but it's completely idiotic to penalize a player for making the finals. By OP's logic it's better to lose in the first round or miss the playoffs altogether than lose in the finals. Magic is somehow behind Kobe because he was able to make 2 more finals? It's absurd logic.


nobodies penalizing lebron for making the finals

infact... nobodies even penalizing lebron for losing... allot of players have


we're penalizing lebron for losing waaaaay more than he wins and doing it historically


since only lebron and wilt have won league mvp and lost in the finals 4 times with a losing record


out of every single mvp in nba history


its crazy isnt it ?


sh*t i think they might even have had the record at 3 losses

[3ball]

its crazy isnt it ?


It's also crazy that MJ is probably 7/7 if Pippen doesn't get 2 points on 1-10 with his famous "migraines" epic choke in Game 7 of 1990 ECF - the Bulls likely beat Blazers in Finals, based on the fact that the Pistons beat Blazers in 6, but needed 7 and Pippen choke to beat Bulls.

Also, the concept of a perfect record is the following: if all the information we have is that MJ was 6/6, then the best bet is that he'd be 7/7, and 8/8, etc... I mean, people say Mitch Richmond could've won championship in 1994... So that means MJ is 4/4 if he doesn't retire in 1994 (and would be 5/5 had Pippen not choked in 1990).

6/6 without loss is a decent sample - certainly, if vegas was putting odds of MJ going 7/7 in a hypothetical 7th Finals appearance, MJ would be the favorite... :confusedshrug:

Most Lebron fans refuse to accept the reality that MJ's off-ball style fostered and allowed his team to play the best brand of basketball (equal-opportunity) - this meant that equal or less-talented teams could never pull upsets by playing a better brand of basketball - since MJ's team always played to capacity, the most likely scenario every time his team is good enough to MAKE the Finals, is that they WIN the Finals..
.

[Kblaze8855]

Casual fan? I'm a fan of basketball. I've seen little evidence you're a fan of anything but Kobe personally. I will say at least there appears to be humanity inside you though it remains hidden behind a heavy coating of borderline madness. 3ball is more euroleague... I can barely accept that these dudes exist.

3ball especially is troubling. you know this guy would literally copy and paste a single post a dozen times in a single topic? You can't see it because he deletes them after the repeated post gets him the bump he's looking for.... but he will quote three or four people and respond with the exact same words in the exact same order from earlier 3 or 4 posts in a row come back and delete them.

I'm going to screenshot it one day. Dude will have six consecutive posts in one topic saying almost exactly the same thing come back delete them all then quote someone different and do it again.

which isn't even going into his ridiculous use of what he calls the thread cliffs where he will just copy and paste something from the original post and do it every 5 or 6 posts in an eternal argument.

everyday and every night I'm getting requests from people who can't believe you two and Dubeta arent permanently banned.

I suppose but not doing it we encourage you to get worse and worse and that's how it got to this point..... but damn. ISH is the most lightly modded forum related to sports possibly ever. You get so much room to just be a jackass and annoy people....

And when there is a ban its usually brief and someone comes back raising hell like it was unreasonable when you would have been banned forever from 95% of forums years ago... And I'm reasonably sure at least you and 3ball are from anywhere else you would attempt this.

You give people an inch and they want to go to the moon and I don't know how otherwise rational adults get so much joy out of annoying hundreds of people. and do it with the exact same points every single day.....

I love the opinion of someone qualified to explain what the hell is going on in your heads.

[AirFederer]

Big Kobe and Bron fan here, but let`s be honest, Bron passed Kobe some time ago. So agree with OP, he will not pass him again.

[KG215]

there literally was an ISH vote last year after the 2014 finals


lebron was 11th

behind both kobe and duncan


do you agree with this atleast?



and i dont see how 1 more finals loss brings him any closer
:roll:

Again, all you're doing is citing an ISH poll. I love this place but it's probably the most unreliable basketball message board to get a truly objective "popular opinion" due to it being about 95% Kobe and LeBron stans, and any time there's any kind of poll ranking players or comparing players it usually comes down to whose stans (Kobe or LeBron) vote more.

I asked you for just one of all those polls you've seen that had Kobe ranked ahead of LeBron, and all you've given me is highly unreliable, shouldn't be taken seriously at all ISH poll results because I'm 90% sure all the polls you always cite when sucking Kobe's d**k are from 2010 and earlier, before LeBron started peaking and going to the Finals and winning championships.

[DMV2]

Kenneth got the ISH All-Time 100 list year wrong. It was actually 2012.

LeBron being #11 after 1 ring/FMVP, 4 MVP was actually surprising. Knowing he got a backtoback ring makes me think if we did a Top 100 list now, he'd be in the Top 10.

[DMV2]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=282470 wasn't even that bad of a list.

Duncan with a ring in 2014, and 10 secs away from a ring 2013 should put him at #7 now.

[iamgine]

Casual fan? I'm a fan of basketball. I've seen little evidence you're a fan of anything but Kobe personally. I will say at least there appears to be humanity inside you though it remains hidden behind a heavy coating of borderline madness. 3ball is more euroleague... I can barely accept that these dudes exist.

3ball especially is troubling. you know this guy would literally copy and paste a single post a dozen times in a single topic? You can't see it because he deletes them after the repeated post gets him the bump he's looking for.... but he will quote three or four people and respond with the exact same words in the exact same order from earlier 3 or 4 posts in a row come back and delete them.

I'm going to screenshot it one day. Dude will have six consecutive posts in one topic saying almost exactly the same thing come back delete them all then quote someone different and do it again.

which isn't even going into his ridiculous use of what he calls the thread cliffs where he will just copy and paste something from the original post and do it every 5 or 6 posts in an eternal argument.

everyday and every night I'm getting requests from people who can't believe you two and Dubeta arent permanently banned.

I suppose but not doing it we encourage you to get worse and worse and that's how it got to this point..... but damn. ISH is the most likely modded forum related to sports possibly ever. You get so much room to just be a jackass and annoy people....

And when there is a ban is usually brief and someone comes back raising hell like it was unreasonable when you would have been banned forever from 95% of forums years ago... And I'm reasonably sure at least you and 3ball are from anywhere else you would attempt this.

You give people an inch and they want to go to the moon and I don't know how otherwise rational adults get so much joy out of annoying hundreds of people. and do it with the exact same points every single day.....

I love the opinion of someone qualified to explain what the hell is going on in your heads.
owner....pay....attract....traffic....

[Kblaze8855]

I don't know. Even though they don't seem to realize it they get banned more by the owners and administrators than by the mods. Kenneth has gone through 5 accounts being permanently banned. at least. I can see the all-time banned list and he is all over it. He's never had an account permanently banned by one of us. But he still gets it in his head that we have it out for him.

I just address such things every now and then when I wake up to an inbox of people wondering why nothing is being done about it. we allow pretty much everything and very few people really take advantage of the situation

[Gileraracer]

Jordan - GOAT
Bean - Top 10
LeBald - Top 50


case closed

[LikeABosh]

Dubeta murking Kenny boy as always:oldlol:

[Straight_Ballin]

Jordan - GOAT
Bean - Top 10
LeBald - Top 50


case closed

Pretty much. How the hell can a guy like LBJ even be close to Kobe when he can't even command a double team? All you need is single coverage on him by a player who is long and you shut him down. All this guy has shown me so far is that he needs wade on his team to win a ring, and when the team he's on is no longer stacked enough, he runs to the next stacked team only to get his shit pushed in. 2/6 is now accpeted in shitty modern ball to be a great accomplishment. That's what happens when the bball IQ of the fans of a particular era is very low.

[3ball]

.
Reasons Lebron lost the 4 Finals:


Lebron lost the Finals in 2015 because he couldn't shoot a good percentage at high volume - it's statistical fact that he's bad at the additional 1-on-1 and midrange required of high volume shooters - the poor efficiency at high volume doomed any chance of his team beating the Warriors and is conspicuous in light of the single-coverage and secluded clearouts he enjoyed all series.

Of course, virtually all of Lebron's Finals losses can be attributed to his ball-dominant style, which prevents his teams from running an equal-opportunity offense, where all 5 players share the playmaking responsibilities - this is the kind of offense that teams perceived as "smart" use, such as Mavs, Spurs, 2015 Warriors, and 90's Bulls equal-opportunity triangle (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIY_4vIxGEE&t=23m40s).. Since Lebron's style prevents equal opportunity and the best brand of basketball, equal or less-talented opponents pull upsets by playing a better brand of basketball (2009, 2011, 2014).

It's not conjecture that Lebron's style prevents equal-opportunity because it's proven by the stats - Lebron's presence craters the APG and assist % of teammates (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=385841) (Wade, Love, Bosh, Kyrie, Mo Williams), while increasing the amount they are assisted - this proves he turns teammates from playmakers into playfinishers, thus preventing equal-opportunity/sharing the playmaking.. Of course, with Lebron's style decreasing the assists of teammates, it's no surprise that all his TEAMS (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=385446) have very low assist frequency.
.

[3ball]

What's better: 1-9 in 1st Round as underdog, or losing 4 straight games in finals, 3 straight in finals, 3 straight in finals again, and 3 straight in finals......again

No this is not a typo. Lebron is 2/6 with each of his finals losses coming in the form of a beatdown



:eek:

So apparently, opponents are figuring out Lebron's teams, and then it's a rap.. There's no back-and-forth where both teams make adjustments because Lebron-ball is unadjustable... Ouch

The proven predictability of Lebron's teams shouldn't be surprising - the statistical reality is that Lebron's teams have very poor teamwork, as shown by their very low assist frequency (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=385446).. And Lebron's presence significantly lowers the apg of his teammates (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=385841).

Btw, we already know that Jordan's career Finals averages destroy Lebron's, but the gap is even bigger when you consider defense - all of Lebron's defensive assignments are role players, yet they get FMVP... Whereas MJ's defensive assignments were always the other team's best player, such as Magic and Drexler, and also KJ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6K2rBgOqGCw&index=13&list=PLl0ny9_3DLnFmdGrXIYboWxY85qDJEjUY), Payton (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meL62CUehuw&list=PLl0ny9_3DLnFmdGrXIYboWxY85qDJEjUY&index=17), and Stockton (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOuMwmXtgd0) - however, these guys never won fmvp against MJ.

When you consider defense, the gap between MJ and Lebron's Finals performances is huge, just like the gap between 6/6 and 2/6.. It makes that gap very easy to understand.
.

[Wade's Rings]

Casual fan? I'm a fan of basketball. I've seen little evidence you're a fan of anything but Kobe personally. I will say at least there appears to be humanity inside you though it remains hidden behind a heavy coating of borderline madness. 3ball is more euroleague... I can barely accept that these dudes exist.

3ball especially is troubling. you know this guy would literally copy and paste a single post a dozen times in a single topic? You can't see it because he deletes them after the repeated post gets him the bump he's looking for.... but he will quote three or four people and respond with the exact same words in the exact same order from earlier 3 or 4 posts in a row come back and delete them.

I'm going to screenshot it one day. Dude will have six consecutive posts in one topic saying almost exactly the same thing come back delete them all then quote someone different and do it again.

:roll: :roll:

He's done this to a couple of my threads shits hilarious.

[HurricaneKid]

Technically OP is right. LeBron cannot pass Kobe. Because he already did. A long time ago.

And lapping another player seems to be impossible.

[3ball]

:roll: :roll:

He's done this to a couple of my threads shits hilarious.


The only reason I do it is because people leave my points unrefuted and it robs me of the ether... Although, I always take the lack of response as proof that my post was ether, despite what any haters want to say.

[GrapeApe]

When a team loses in the Finals, that means they wouldn't have even MADE the Finals if that team was in the other conference - this is a fact - for example, if the 2011 or 2014 Heat were in the West, they wouldn't have made the Finals - obviously the Spurs and Mavs are the Western Conference representatives in those years.

So if all of Lebron's TEAMS had been in the West instead, Lebron would only have 2 Finals appearances in his entire career (2012 and 2013).. This is why no one respects just MAKING the Finals - obviously, 10 straight Finals losses < 1 Finals win, because those 10 losses means those teams don't even make the Finals in the other conference.

The reality is that Lebron is the first player where merely making the Finals is viewed as equal to winning the championship.. This is a narrative the media has created - it's easier than having to explain that Lebron's suboptimal style simply prevents his teams from having championship-caliber chemistry - the only 2 times he won were because he had sufficient talent to overcome non-championship-caliber chemistry (i.e it's statistical fact that the Heat were worse when Lebron and Wade were on the floor together).

What the hell? :oldlol:

I didn't mention Lebron, my point has nothing directly to do with Lebron, yet you go on rambling and ranting about Lebron.

I'm not even excusing finals losses, I'm simply pointing out the absurdity of the OP's logic. According to him, a player who's 3/3 in the finals but missed the playoffs 10 times is greater than a player who's 3/5 in the finals and made deep playoff runs every year of his career. It's stupid.

Also, your logic about the finals loser not making the finals in the other conference is flawed. You cannot assume identical outcomes under non-identical circumstances. There's a multitude of variables at play. It's a logical fallacy, much like using the transitive property (team a beats team b, team b beats team c, so therefore team a will beat team c). We all know that sports doesn't work that way.

[kennethgriffin]

What the hell? :oldlol:

I didn't mention Lebron, my point has nothing directly to do with Lebron, yet you go on rambling and ranting about Lebron.

I'm not even excusing finals losses, I'm simply pointing out the absurdity of the OP's logic. According to him, a player who's 3/3 in the finals but missed the playoffs 10 times is greater than a player who's 3/5 in the finals and made deep playoff runs every year of his career. It's stupid.

Also, your logic about the finals loser not making the finals in the other conference is flawed. You cannot assume identical outcomes under non-identical circumstances. There's a multitude of variables at play. It's a logical fallacy, much like using the transitive property (team a beats team b, team b beats team c, so therefore team a will beat team c). We all know that sports doesn't work that way.


Youre right. A guy whos 3 for 3 in the finals would be better

Know why?

Because anyone whos good enough to lead a team to a 3 for 3 finals record would obviously not be the reason his team missed the playoffs 10 times. Its obviously management

However. If the other guy is 3-5 and always has a contending lineup. But just chokes most of the time.. then hes obviously not as good with the same amount of help

[GrapeApe]

nobodies penalizing lebron for making the finals

infact... nobodies even penalizing lebron for losing... allot of players have


we're penalizing lebron for losing waaaaay more than he wins and doing it historically


since only lebron and wilt have won league mvp and lost in the finals 4 times with a losing record


out of every single mvp in nba history


its crazy isnt it ?


sh*t i think they might even have had the record at 3 losses

The problem is this completely ignores context, which is why absolute arguments are flawed. It's ridiculous to criticize Lebron for not winning in 2007 or 2015. In 2011 and to a lesser degree 2014 sure, but simply citing "2/6" doesn't tell the whole story. I don't understand why people struggle so much with the idea of context. Things aren't always black and white, and in fact rarely are.

I also don't understand why a player with an equal number of titles as another player is penalized for making more finals appearances. That was the main point of my earlier post.

:confusedshrug:

[GrapeApe]

Youre right. A guy whos 3 for 3 in the finals would be better

Know why?

Because anyone whos good enough to lead a team to a 3 for 3 finals record would obviously not be the reason his team missed the playoffs 10 times. Its obviously management

However. If the other guy is 3-5 and always has a contending lineup. But just chokes most of the time.. then hes obviously not as good with the same amount of help

What if the 3/3 player was wildly inconsistent and flat out had several bad seasons that contributed to his team missing the playoffs? The 3/5 player was consistently great, hence the reason for 2 more finals appearances and several deep playoff runs.

Is 3/3 still better? You see my point about context?

[GIF REACTION]

Majority of people already have Lebron over Kobe

A couple more rings and a 3 more finals trips...4/9

4 Rings
4 FMVPs
4 MVPs
2 DPOY runner ups

That's top 3 GOAT level with Kareem and MJ

[kennethgriffin]

The problem is this completely ignores context, which is why absolute arguments are flawed. It's ridiculous to criticize Lebron for not winning in 2007 or 2015. In 2011 and to a lesser degree 2014 sure, but simply citing "2/6" doesn't tell the whole story. I don't understand why people struggle so much with the idea of context. Things aren't always black and white, and in fact rarely are.

I also don't understand why a player with an equal number of titles as another player is penalized for making more finals appearances. That was the main point of my earlier post.

:confusedshrug:


if you dont wanna count finals losses because he didnt belong there. then why count the few times he lucked out

its a fluke ring if its a free pass to the finals


so lebrons either 0 for 0

or he has 4 finals losses


take your pick

[kennethgriffin]

Majority of people already have Lebron over Kobe

A couple more rings and a 3 more finals trips...4/9

4 Rings
4 FMVPs
4 MVPs
2 DPOY runner ups

That's top 3 GOAT level with Kareem and MJ



no

lebron was voted 11th ( behind kobe, duncan, shaq, hakeem ) on both the ISH and anger general all time vote a year ago

and on the sportsnation vote hes still behind kobe

where on earth are you getting your facts from?

[3ball]

When a team loses in the Finals, that means they wouldn't have even MADE the Finals if that team was in the other conference - this is a fact - for example, if the 2011 or 2014 Heat were in the West, they wouldn't have made the Finals - obviously the Spurs and Mavs are the Western Conference representatives in those years.

So if all of Lebron's TEAMS had been in the West instead, Lebron would only have 2 Finals appearances in his entire career (2012 and 2013).. This is why no one respects just MAKING the Finals - obviously, 10 straight Finals losses < 1 Finals win, because those 10 losses means those teams don't even make the Finals in the other conference.

The reality is that Lebron is the first player where merely making the Finals is viewed as equal to winning the championship.. This is a narrative the media has created - it's easier than having to explain that Lebron's suboptimal style simply prevents his teams from having championship-caliber chemistry - the only 2 times he won were because he had sufficient talent to overcome non-championship-caliber chemistry (i.e it's statistical fact that the Heat were worse when Lebron and Wade were on the floor together).




Also, your logic about the finals loser not making the finals in the other conference is flawed. You cannot assume identical outcomes under non-identical circumstances. There's a multitude of variables at play.


The logic I used above is common knowledge and completely sound - the reality is that Lebron's teams can't beat the West's best... So what good is it to win the Eastern Conference when you can't beat the big boys?

Are you saying Lebron should get a Larry O' Brian trophy for winning the East?

[GrapeApe]

The logic I used above is common knowledge and completely sound - the reality is that Lebron's teams can't beat the West's best... So what good is it to win the Eastern Conference when you can't beat the big boys?

Are you saying Lebron should get a Larry O' Brian trophy for winning the East?

No, it's not common knowledge and not sound. You cannot extrapolate the outcome of one series and apply it to another hypothetical series. Every series is completely independent. Do you not understand the concepts of matchups, circumstances, and fluid performance? The 2011 Mavs might not have made the finals in the east. Just because they beat the Heat, who beat the Celtics and Bulls, there is no guarantee that the Mavs beat the Celtics and Bulls. The transitive property DOES NOT APPLY TO SPORTS.

As for your last sentence, I never implied anything close to that. My initial point was simply that reaching the finals is better than not reaching the finals. Winning your conference and reaching the finals is better than losing in the first round. No? As I said earlier, I'm not excusing finals losses, just pointing out how stupid it is to criticize a player for losing in the finals yet gloss over another player losing in the first round.

[3ball]

The transitive property DOES NOT APPLY TO SPORTS.


The overwhelming likelihood is that if Lebron's teams were in the West, he would not have made the Finals - this is fact - but you are relying on winning-the-lottery-type unlikely exceptions for Lebron to make the Finals in a conference whose actual representative blew him away - this is ridiculous and a disingenuous way to use of your education.

You won't get a promotion or advancement using that kind of logic because the underlying point about Lebron not being able to beat the varsity (the West) is 100% factual and not effectively countered by hoping for rare exceptions - infact, the 0.01% rare exceptions that would allow him to make the Finals only prove how unlikely he is to make the Finals in the other conference.

Also, when Lebron loses in the Finals to the West, he doesn't just lose, he gets BLOWN AWAY - he lost 4 times in a row in 2007, and 3 times in a row to close out series in 2011, 2014, and 2015 - this is because he gets figured out and doesn't have the capacity to adjust... Again, to act like somehow me might still make the Finals is ridiculous... While it's technically true - there is a miniscule chance he could still make it - it's disingenuous and still loses the argument being made that Lebron can't beat the varsity (the west).
.

[sdot_thadon]

Technically OP is right. LeBron cannot pass Kobe. Because he already did. A long time ago.

And lapping another player seems to be impossible.
Winner.

[KG215]

no

lebron was voted 11th ( behind kobe, duncan, shaq, hakeem ) on both the ISH and anger general all time vote a year ago

and on the sportsnation vote hes still behind kobe

where on earth are you getting your facts from?


Please, keep citing ISH polls. Every time you do you make yourself look even dumber than usual.

:roll: :roll:

And where are you getting your facts from? You're citing a 2012 poll after LeBron had just played in only his 2nd Finals and won his 1st ring and was 27 years old, and another highly flawed poll YOU created and admitted was messed up because people could vote as many times as they wanted. It was a poll that turned into a giant pissing contest between Kobe stans and LeBron stans. It is nowhere close to being something anyone should take seriously.

[sdot_thadon]

no

lebron was voted 11th ( behind kobe, duncan, shaq, hakeem ) on both the ISH and anger general all time vote a year ago

and on the sportsnation vote hes still behind kobe

where on earth are you getting your facts from?


Alright let's play your game.


NBA Elo Player Ratings

This is a community-based project with the goal of rating the best players in NBA history. Please read the*fine details*or view the*complete ratings*below.





Rank

9.Lebron James (9 alltime, 1st active)




298.Kobe Bryant


:kobe:

[kennethgriffin]

Please, keep citing ISH polls. Every time you do you make yourself look even dumber than usual.

:roll: :roll:

And where are you getting your facts from? You're citing a 2012 poll after LeBron had just played in only his 2nd Finals and won his 1st ring and was 27 years old, and another highly flawed poll YOU created and admitted was messed up because people could vote as many times as they wanted. It was a poll that turned into a giant pissing contest between Kobe stans and LeBron stans. It is nowhere close to being something anyone should take seriously.


i'm citing the poll on ISH from 2014 actually


i think it got deleted. but i'm sure you remember it... every day there was a new thread about it collecting votes


and what poll would be legit to you?

[sdot_thadon]

How about the one above?

[KG215]

i'm citing the poll on ISH from 2014 actually


i think it got deleted. but i'm sure you remember it... every day there was a new thread about it collecting votes


and what poll would be legit to you?
Well, for starters, one from the last few years that's not from a message board where any kind of voting turns into a pissing contest between stans. Not that it matters, because popular opinion doesn't always equal fact or something close to fact. There's always recency bias and other factors that can heavily influence any kind of fan-vote poll when it comes to ranking players in a particular sport.

[DMV2]

Kenny keeps saying the ISH poll was from last year. Not true. It's from Nov 2012.

And no it wasn't deleted. http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=282470

Deuce, a Kobe stan, actually did a decent job on it. He did it for a couple of weeks or however long it took.

#11 after just 1 ring, 1 FMVP, 4 MVP is pretty good indication that he should be voted in Top 10 after getting back to back rings. MVP, FMVP, ring in the same year in 2012 and 2013 is something Kobe has never done and will never do.

[kennethgriffin]

Kenny keeps saying the ISH poll was from last year. Not true. It's from Nov 2012.

And no it wasn't deleted. http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=282470

Deuce, a Kobe stan, actually did a decent job on it. He did it for a couple of weeks or however long it took.

#11 after just 1 ring, 1 FMVP, 4 MVP is pretty good indication that he should be voted in Top 10 after getting back to back rings. MVP, FMVP, ring in the same year in 2012 and 2013 is something Kobe has never done and will never do.


there was an ISH poll done last year too though

but its gone. so i created a new one for all the butthurt bran babies out there

[DMV2]

A couple of interesting posts from that thread comparing a 2007 poll to the 2012 poll.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=7985400&postcount=16

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=7985703&postcount=28

Wilt went from #3 to #6. Big O dropped out of the top 10. Kobe went from #24 to #8. Glove dropped from 28 to 43. KG moved up from 37 to 16.

For most part, it seemed pretty consistent, especially the Top 15-20. Kobe, KG, KG bumped a few guys out of there but most parts stayed same.

[kennethgriffin]

A couple of interesting posts from that thread comparing a 2007 poll to the 2012 poll.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=7985400&postcount=16

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=7985703&postcount=28

Wilt went from #3 to #6. Big O dropped out of the top 10. Kobe went from #24 to #8. Glove dropped from 28 to 43. KG moved up from 37 to 16.

For most part, it seemed pretty consistent, especially the Top 15-20. Kobe, KG, KG bumped a few guys out of there but most parts stayed same.



at the time kobe was facing allot of heat for dismantling the lakers

i remember in 2004 there was a list done and kobe was as high as 14th all time already


in the end the breakup couldnt have worked out any better

[DMV2]

there was an ISH poll done last year too though

but its gone. so i created a new one for all the butthurt bran babies out there
Really? I didn't see it. How long was it run for? Odd that I somehow missed it, and I'm on ISH a lot.

Deuce ran his campaign well over a couple of weeks. He gave each of the Top 10 like a full day, or ended each ranking when top voter had a significant cushion from the next player down.

Deuce is a Kobe stan as you know, so I was surprised he did an unbiased poll/campaign on it.

[Cold soul]

Really? I didn't see it. How long was it run for? Odd that I somehow missed it, and I'm on ISH a lot.

Deuce ran his campaign well over a couple of weeks. He gave each of the Top 10 like a full day, or ended each ranking when top voter had a significant cushion from the next player down.

Deuce is a Kobe stan as you know, so I was surprised he did an unbiased poll/campaign on it.

Why is that? Not all Kobe fans are trolls or completely biased you'd be surprised not all are so bad.

[Wade's Rings]

Why is that? Not all Kobe fans are trolls or completely biased you'd be surprised not all are so bad.

You're probably the only Kobe stan who's objective on here.

[Cold soul]

You're probably the only Kobe stan who's objective on here.

I'm not the only one but thank you. :cheers:

[SouBeachTalents]

6 for 6 cant be beat. even if kobe wins 6 .....then hes 6 for 8

kobe cant pass MJ

5 for 7 cant be beat. even if lebron wins 5..... then hes 5 for 9 ( reality 4.5 for 9 )

Lebron cant pass Kobe




and thats assuming lebron wins 3 out of his next 3. which he wouldnt... based on lebrons current finals win% ... in order to get 5 rings lebron would need around 17 trips to the nba finals



i know theres guys who will get on here and say "well what about duncan! hes 5 for 6!"

well one of his titles is bogus anyway so hes really around 4.5


and tim is done winning titles as a #1 or #2 guy... sh*t he may not even be the 5th best


other guys might say "havlicek is 8 for 8"

well thats great and all. but hes not in contention for the top 10 all time.


yes ladies and gentlemen... its about # of rings by mvp winners...with finals win% as tie breakers ( 60s rings and lockouts getting half prestige )


#1 Jordan - 6 for 6
#2 Kareem - 6 for 10
#3 Russell - 11 for 12 ( 5.5* )
#4 Kobe - 5 for 7
#5 Magic - 5 for 9
#6 Duncan - 5 for 6 ( 4.5* )
#7 Shaq - 4 for 6
#8 Bird - 3 for 5
#9 Hakeem - 2 for 3
#10 Wilt - 2 for 6 ( 1.5* )
#11 Lebron - 2 for 6 ( 1.5* )




neither kobe or lebron can EVER catch jordan

and lebron would need a miracle to catch kobe

I almost forgot how laughably delusional this dude was :oldlol:

[ShawkFactory]

I almost forgot how laughably delusional this dude was :oldlol:
Forgot about this dude :lol

Phenomenal troll. Wasn't delusional, just enjoyed saying outlandish things and fed off the reaction

[red1]

I almost forgot how laughably delusional this dude was :oldlol:
Thanks for this bump dude. This entire thread is comedy. :lol

This thread is a good representation of the some of the first ballot hall of shamers eternally enshrined in the legendary hall of retard.

2ball
straight_retard
retardforlife
kenny

AKA the all-star team of low-IQ. :roll:

[knicksman]

You know youre a loser if you value brans rings highly:lol

[AirBonner]

You know youre a loser if you value brans rings highly:lol
Speaking of IQ. This guy sets the bar for how low of an IQ is possible :oldlol:

[egokiller]

and thats assuming lebron wins 3 out of his next 3. which he wouldnt... based on lebrons current finals win% ... in order to get 5 rings lebron would need around 17 trips to the nba finals

OP called it. Somehow he just knew that Lebron would be facing a team of 5 all-stars for the rest of his career. :cheers:

[egokiller]

Thanks for this bump dude. This entire thread is comedy. :lol

This thread is a good representation of the some of the first ballot hall of shamers eternally enshrined in the legendary hall of retard.

2ball
straight_retard
retardforlife
kenny

AKA the all-star team of low-IQ. :roll:

This thread is a good representation of you getting triggered. All 4 of those guys said Lebron would never be on MJ's level and alas, Lebron STILL has a losing finals record of 3/7, and must now go up against 5 all-stars for the rest of his career.

[Hey Yo]

When a team loses in the Finals, that means they wouldn't have even MADE the Finals if that team was in the other conference - this is a fact - for example, if the 2011 or 2014 Heat were in the West, they wouldn't have made the Finals - obviously the Spurs and Mavs are the Western Conference representatives in those years.



:cletus:

[tmacattack33]

:roll:

[red1]

This thread is a good representation of you getting triggered. All 4 of those guys said Lebron would never be on MJ's level and alas, Lebron STILL has a losing finals record of 3/7, and must now go up against 5 all-stars for the rest of his career.
http://i.imgur.com/Wqwke.gif%20

[NBAGOAT]

I thought this was a kenneth thread from like 2011. This is from 2015... good lord what a troll :oldlol:

[Mr. Jabbar]

agreed.

[feyki]

3/10 .

[Mr Exlax]

Kobe was not the best player on the team for 4 of his team's champion runs. His number of rings can't be compared to LeBron's or MJ's.

[Hoopz2332]

lebron top 3.....kobe only top 12:oldlol:

[LilEddyCurry]

3/7 > 2/7 or else Robert Horry is better than Kobe and LeBron

[Smoke117]

Most basketball fans already had Lebron over Kobe before he won this 3rd championship. Now? It's not even a casual discussion.

[KungFuJoe]

In all seriousness, would we consider Jordan's career to be flawed if he had gotten to Bulls to two finals before they started winning, and finished 6/8?

No but his perfect record just adds to the mystique.

[AirBonner]

No but his perfect record just adds to the mystique.
There is nothing mystique about 1-9. Missing it all together is worse then losing it. Only simpletons think otherwise.

[MiseryCityTexas]

I honestly think Lebron is better than Kobe. Lebron already has more triple doubles than Kobe.

[knicksman]

Speaking of IQ. This guy sets the bar for how low of an IQ is possible :oldlol:

The simplest way to judge a player is through stats so its not surprising that simpletons are bran/wilt stans:lol

[Dray n Klay]

knicksman, hows your degree going along?

[knicksman]

knicksman, hows your degree going along?

Simpleton triggered:lol

[Smoke117]

Simpleton triggered:lol

The irony of you calling someone else a simpleton... :roll:

Simon is one, of course, but that is beside the point.

[SouBeachTalents]

The irony of you calling someone else a simpleton... :roll:

Only losers respect bran