Russian airforce to help in Syria

[dunksby]

Shit just got real for ISIS and other savages :rockon:

Russian parliament grants Putin right to use military force in Syria
MOSCOW

The Russian parliament on Wednesday unanimously granted President Vladimir Putin the right to deploy the country's military in Syria, a move a top Kremlin aide said related only to the air force.

Russia has been building up its military presence in Syria, where it supports the government forces of President Bashar al-Assad in a conflict that pits him against Islamic State militants and Western-backed rebels.

Sergei Ivanov, the head of the Kremlin administration, said after the vote in the Federation Council, the Russian parliament's upper chamber: "The Syrian president asked the leadership of our country for military assistance."

But he said the vote did not mean that Russian ground forces would be engaged in conflict and that the move referred to the use of the air force only.

"If there will be a united coalition which I doubt, or in the end two coalitions -- one American and one Russian -- they will have to coordinate their actions," Ivan Konovalov, a military expert, told Reuters.

"For Russian forces to operate there legitimately ... a law was needed."

There have some media reports from the Middle East that Russian military jets have already started carrying out air strikes in Syria. The Kremlin has declined to confirm that.

The last time the Russian parliament granted Putin the right to deploy troops abroad, a technical requirement under Russian law, Moscow seized Crimea from Ukraine last year.

(Reporting by Lidia Kelly, Gabriela Baczynska and Alexander Winning; Editing by Andrew Osborn)
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/09/30/us-mideast-crisis-russia-idUSKCN0RU0MG20150930

[Nick Young]

Putin doing the job Obama is afraid to do:cheers:

[dunksby]

Putin doing the job Obama is afraid to do:cheers:
For now it's only air force though, my bad.

[fiddy]

Well, they already had deployed like 20+ Su fighters ten days ago :lol

[CeltsGarlic]

USA is doing mostly this (https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/pentagon-loses-sight-of-500-million-in-counterterrorism-aid-given-to-yemen/2015/03/17/f4ca25ce-cbf9-11e4-8a46-b1dc9be5a8ff_story.html)

[fiddy]

USA is doing mostly this (https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/pentagon-loses-sight-of-500-million-in-counterterrorism-aid-given-to-yemen/2015/03/17/f4ca25ce-cbf9-11e4-8a46-b1dc9be5a8ff_story.html)
and then http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/11882195/US-trained-Division-30-rebels-betrayed-US-and-hand-weapons-over-to-al-Qaedas-affiliate-in-Syria.html

[West-Side]

:bowdown: :applause: In Ruski's we trust.

[fiddy]

Meanwhile

Russians tell US to remove warplanes from Syria, senior official says
EXCLUSIVE: Russian officials have demanded that American warplanes exit Syrian airspace immediately, a senior U.S. official told Fox News early Wendesday.

The official told Fox News that Russian diplomats sent an official demarche ordering U.S. planes out of Syria, adding that Russian fighter jets were now flying over Syrian territory. U.S. military sources told Fox News that U.S. planes would not comply with the Russian demand.

"There is nothing to indicate that we are changing operations over Syria," a senior defense official said.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/09/30/boots-on-ground-russian-lawmakers-back-putin-sending-troops-to-syria/

[StephHamann]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqhf663VyyI

:rockon:

[dude77]

lol@obama .. getting pushed aside like an incompetent bitch .. this is going to leave a major stain on his legacy .. putin is absolutely owning this gay strutting peanut head

[UK2K]

USA is doing mostly this (https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/pentagon-loses-sight-of-500-million-in-counterterrorism-aid-given-to-yemen/2015/03/17/f4ca25ce-cbf9-11e4-8a46-b1dc9be5a8ff_story.html)

You wouldn't believe the amount of wasted/lost/tossed money we spent for nothing...

This is probably one of my favorite articles:


http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2013/07/11/201195870/a-34-million-waste-of-the-taxpayers-money-in-afghanistan

In it, Special Inspector General John Sopko detailed how a contract worth $34 million was used to build a facility U.S. troops will never use.

It's the latest in a string of reports on waste from Sopko, who recently detailed how the U.S. spent more than $770 million on aircraft for Afghanistan that its military can't use.

"If Congress appropriates the money, they will spend it," Sopko says of the U.S. military's construction arm, in a conversation with NPR's Robert Siegel on today's All Things Considered.

But in 2010, Sopko says, the Marine Corps general said, "I don't want it, don't build it, I won't use it. So stop construction. A year later, construction began."

When Robert asks if the project may have proceeded because no one wanted to cancel the contract for a private U.S. business, Sopko says he's still investigating why the construction was ordered to proceed — and who gave that order. But he doesn't fault the contractor, he says.

"It's just useless. It's a $34 million waste of the taxpayers' money," Sopko answers.

"This is just the tip of the iceberg," he says. "There are plenty of buildings, and plenty of equipment that was purchased, that is not needed."

To the question of whether such projects were begun even as the U.S. military was pulling out of Afghanistan, Sopko says, "Oh, absolutely."




And if you want to know how we end up building a $30 million building that nobody wanted or needed, and many tried to stop, here's this:

https://projects.propublica.org/graphics/boondoggle

I was at Leatherneck under General Mills (haha general mills, get it?) and at the time they were building this super structure nobody wanted, on the few days between weeks long missions I was on base, I slept 12 men to a room the size of living room. Our wifi sucked ass, the chow hall was a mile walk, and the phones were farther than that.

[Patrick Chewing]

lol@obama .. getting pushed aside like an incompetent bitch .. this is going to leave a major stain on his legacy .. putin is absolutely owning this gay strutting peanut head


Dude just doesn't want to have anything remotely related to Islamic terrorism tied to his administration. I honestly think that he will give a speech one day years down the road and say that under his watch, we didn't need to combat terrorists because of his foreign policy. :oldlol:

[longhornfan1234]

Putin always punks and out politics Obama.

[StephHamann]

Dude just doesn't want to have anything remotely related to Islamic terrorism tied to his administration. I honestly think that he will give a speech one day years down the road and say that under his watch, we didn't need to combat terrorists because of his foreign policy. :oldlol:

Obama is the greatest supporter of Islamic terrorism since Muhammad 1500 years ago.

[Patrick Chewing]

Obama is the greatest supporter of Islamic terrorism since Muhammad 1500 years ago.


I read somewhere that the only reason Obama is soft on Islamic Terrorism, or the mere fact why he won't even mention the words Islamic Terrorism is because his dad was a Muslim. And it would be considered very foul of him to tarnish his father's religion and go against the very tenets his father believed in.

This is why he's always bringing Christianity into extremist discussions. He scolds Christians first that way the masses can look the other way and not judge Islam.

[senelcoolidge]

Let's see how long it takes for the Russians to kill off ISIS, compared to Obama and the peace coalition that threw one bomb each week at an empty field. Obama is an embarrassment. The Russians and Iranians are going to control that area after ISIS is cleared out. The U.S. will be left with nothing.

[Smook B]

About time let Russians deal with ISIS they seem more committed to defeating them than obama.

[DonDadda59]

Good. Let that shit storm that is the Middle East be Russia's problem now. Putin must have no long term memory otherwise he'd remember that the USSR's involvement in the region back in the 80s went swimmingly. :lol

Let the Syrians fight it out among themselves and use the money we would've wasted on bombs and ammunition on figuring out new sources of energy so we don't have to keep making believe we care about the well being of Syrian/Iraqi/Afghani citizens.

There's only one reason we care whether or not Assad is in power but don't give a shit about who's running the show in Myanmar or the Sudan.

[Smook B]

US Syrian strategy was doomed from the start. It's sad when the Russians are making more sense than the US and it's allies on dealing with Syria.

[Nick Young]

lol@obama .. getting pushed aside like an incompetent bitch .. this is going to leave a major stain on his legacy .. putin is absolutely owning this gay strutting peanut head
USA best join a coalition with Russia or get the phuck out and let Putin get the job done.

It's sad that we need a Russki to do what should have been an American job.

[KevinNYC]

. The Russians and Iranians are going to control that area after ISIS is cleared out. The U.S. will be left with nothing.
What exactly do we want to control?

[UK2K]

USA best join a coalition with Russia or get the phuck out and let Putin get the job done.

It's sad that we need a Russki to do what should have been an American job.

What makes it a US job?

[KevinNYC]

US Syrian strategy was doomed from the start.

What was the strategy at the start? And When was the start?

[fiddy]

What exactly do we want to control?
Ignorant as usual, transit gas pipelines

[Nick Young]

What makes it a US job?
because we could end this shit pretty quick.

Also you're right it's not a US job. Russia is going in to help Assad so he can come back in to power and restabilize the region. US wants Assad out and marketed ISIS to the US public as "noble freedom fighters", even helped fund and weaponize ISIS, so that they would be stronger against Assad.

Hopefully Putin wins this one, and puts Assad back in charge.

[Nick Young]

What exactly do we want to control?
The Euro pipeline, dumbass.

[KevinNYC]

Ignorant as usual, transit gas pipelines
So Civil War broke out in Syria over transit gas pipelines? What steps did we take to control them?


gas transit pipelines?

[StephHamann]

So what was our strategy in 2011 and 2012 to control these gas pipelines.

Support radical Muslims, because Obama.

[Nick Young]

So Civil War broke out in Syria over transit gas pipelines? What steps did we take to control them?
What steps did the US take? We funded ISIS and gave them free weapons, and promoted them to the US public as the real life version of the Rebel Alliance from Star Wars and tried to convince us that Assad was Emperor Palpatine mixed with Hitler. It wasn't so long until these noble freedom fighters in ISIS started executing innocent civilians and making fun youtube videos of them raping women and kids and eating dead Syrian soldiers hearts.

Your boy Obama sure picked a good team to support in all of this. Those US tax payer funded weapons were put to great use:applause:

[KevinNYC]

Support radical Muslims, because Obama.
Nope

[dunksby]

I don't agree with Obama administration's handling of Syrian war either, they keep training the Islamists and give them weapons then are surprised when they turn their coat and join ISIS gifting all American weaponry to them.

US-trained Division 30 rebels 'betray US and hand weapons over to al-Qaeda's affiliate in Syria'
Pentagon-trained rebels are reported to have betrayed US and handed weapons over to Jabhat al-Nusra immediately after entering Syria
This is just one example
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/11882195/US-trained-Division-30-rebels-betrayed-US-and-hand-weapons-over-to-al-Qaedas-affiliate-in-Syria.html

[Nick Young]

Nope
Yep. Your boy Obama handed weapons and US tax payer funding to ISIS and various other radical fundamentalist Islamic groups, and then labeld them as "noble freedom fighters", and "allies"

[poido123]

Except American government already criticising the Russians and it hasn't even been a week yet.

I have no doubt Obama is trying to keep Russia an enemy

[NumberSix]

Yep. Your boy Obama handed weapons and US tax payer funding to ISIS and various other radical fundamentalist Islamic groups, and then labeld them as "noble freedom fighters", and "allies"
When are people going to figure out what side Obama is on?

[KevinNYC]

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/world/article31016274.html

Other than calling on Assad to step down, the US did nothing. Direct US involvement came way later. Lots of folks argue that by not getting involved early let a vacumn occur that allowed extremists to move in

[Nick Young]

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/world/article31016274.html

Other than calling on Assad to step down, the US did nothing. Direct US involvement came way later. Lots of folks argue that by not getting involved early let a vacumn occur that allowed extremists to move in
Wrong. Obama gave ISIS weapons and funding. He marketed them to the US public as noble freedom fighters vs evil emperor Assad. Him and his lap dog David Cameron tried to drag us and the UK in to a war in Syria, fighting on ISIS' side, but luckily congress and the UK parliament shut that shit down.

[fiddy]

So Civil War broke out in Syria over transit gas pipelines? What steps did we take to control them?


gas transit pipelines?
Heres a hint: Its all about corporate interests

[Patrick Chewing]

Now the U.S. wants to flex it's muscle after Putin politely asks them to step aside. :oldlol:


http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/09/30/kerry-rebuffs-russian-demand-says-us-airstrikes-in-syria-will-continue/?intcmp=hpbt1


Too little too late, Kerry. Your commander in chief blew it.

[KevinNYC]

I don't agree with Obama administration's handling of Syrian war either, they keep training the Islamists and give them weapons then are surprised when they turn their coat and join ISIS gifting all American weaponry to them.

This is just one example
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/11882195/US-trained-Division-30-rebels-betrayed-US-and-hand-weapons-over-to-al-Qaedas-affiliate-in-Syria.html you're jumbling Up a couple things -- ISIS is not Nusra -- you're the Division 30 plan has been a debacle. However this too little effort started in 2015 (too late?) And represented a change in course.

It's been a Bay of pigs level disaster. As soon as they hit the battlefield they were kidnapped by nusra And assad bombed their headquarters from planes.
The head quit saying it wasnt A serious effort to set a force that
Could stand alone and fight

[longhornfan1234]

The reports now are that Russia warned us to get our planes out of the area because they were going to attack ISIS. Putin pulls the rope a dope on Obama and instead bombs the moderate rebels who we were working with.... and had CIA support. Putin is straight up out maneuvering Obama.. :lol

[longhornfan1234]

Now the U.S. wants to flex it's muscle after Putin politely asks them to step aside. :oldlol:


http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/09/30/kerry-rebuffs-russian-demand-says-us-airstrikes-in-syria-will-continue/?intcmp=hpbt1


Too little too late, Kerry. Your commander in chief blew it.



:roll: :roll: Putin is straight schooling Obama.

[longhornfan1234]

The reports now are that Russia warned us to get our planes out of the area because they were going to attack ISIS. Putin pulls the rope a dope on Obama and instead bombs the moderate rebels who we were working with.... and had CIA support. Putin is straight up out maneuvering Obama.. :lol


this is so funny.... I had to quote myself. Our leader is out here getting embarrassed on world wide stage.

[KevinNYC]

Shit just got real for ISIS and other savages :rockon: You do realize the Putin's main motive in Syria is keep Assad in place, correct? ISIS is secondary at best.

Charles Lister who is quoted in the article you posted on Division 30 is a Syria watcher who is very Anti-Assad, he argues in so many Putin is going to take advantage of anti-ISIS cover to go after Assad's enemies. His tweets today say it's already happening.
Main point to takeaway from today:

The ENTIRE Syrian opposition now sees itself in full-scale war with #Russia. A hugely significant shift.
......
Extremists are main benefactors of #Russia’s intervention, esp. AQ.

In the past week, 2 jihadist factions have joined AQ in #Syria.
.......
The fact that #Russia’s strikes have resulted in minimal/any U.S. condemnation reinforces key jihadist narrative:

"West doesn’t care"
......
#Syria conflict dynamics changing fast. Wouldnt be surprised if we start seeing MANPADS arriving soon. Only US ‘embargo’ prevented till now.
......
US: #Russia strikes likely struck non-#ISIS targets in #Syria.

Russia: Our strikes targeted 8 ISIS positions.

FSA: Russian strikes hit us.

[Nick Young]

The reports now are that Russia warned us to get our planes out of the area because they were going to attack ISIS. Putin pulls the rope a dope on Obama and instead bombs the moderate rebels who we were working with.... and had CIA support. Putin is straight up out maneuvering Obama.. :lol
Putin is the alpha politician in world politics right now.

Obama has everything going for him and all the resources and is repeatedly getting schooled in basic political maneuvers by Russia. They are straight Game of Thronesing us.

[Patrick Chewing]

Taking bets on whether or not Putin eliminates ISIS before Obama is out of office.

We have a year and a half.

[Nick Young]

You do realize the Putin's main motive in Syria is keep Assad in place, correct?
Assad is better than ISIS, which is the group Obama and David Cameron were trying to put in to power.

Under Assad many Syrians are happy and the country was pretty liberal in terms of personal freedoms and wealthy compared to other countries in the region.

Yes Assad did some shit but guess what, all these politicians do, even your boy Obama. Do you have any idea how many innocent civilians died under Obama's direct orders in his 8 year reign?

Assad is the leader Syria needed, just not the one that was wanted. He's guaranteed better than ISIS though.

Putin is also protecting Edward Snowden. Obama promised freedom and asylum to all whistleblowers in the run up to his second presidency, and now is hellbent on murdering them. Putin is protecting Snowden, in the name of protecting freedom of speech.

Putin is doing the right thing here. He's basically acting as the world's Batman.

http://en.mercopress.com/data/cache/noticias/29671/0x0/putin.jpg
http://www.ljplus.ru/img4/p/r/proidemtes/batman-robin1.jpg

[longhornfan1234]

Assad is better than ISIS, which is the group Obama and David Cameron were trying to put in to power.

Under Assad many Syrians are happy and the country was pretty liberal in terms of personal freedoms and wealthy compared to other countries in the region.

Yes Assad did some shit but guess what, all these politicians do, even your boy Obama. Do you have any idea how many innocent civilians died under Obama's direct orders in his 8 year reign?

Assad is the leader Syria needed, just not the one that was wanted. He's guaranteed better than ISIS though.

He is also protecting Edward Snowden. Obama promised freedom and asylum to all whistleblowers and now is hellbent on murdering him. Putin is protecting him.

Putin is doing the right thing here. He's basically acting as the world's Batman.

http://en.mercopress.com/data/cache/noticias/29671/0x0/putin.jpg
http://www.ljplus.ru/img4/p/r/proidemtes/batman-robin1.jpg

I wish we had a president who's a leader of men. :bowdown: :bowdown:

[Nick Young]

I wish we had a president who's a leader of men. :bowdown: :bowdown:
I wish we had a president with real balls.

http://pthumbnails.5min.com/10367040/518351988_c_embedStandard.jpg
http://freebeacon.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/obama-larger.png
http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1888398!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/article_635/russia-putin-cranes.jpg

[senelcoolidge]

Aren't those anti-Assad rebels, basically ISIS or other radical muslim groups. Also Assad is a bad guy but he protects Christians and Jews within his country. If ISIS and these other radical pigs get in those people will be slaughtered.

[Nick Young]

Yep, Assad is definitely the guy we should be backing here. The right thing to do is swallow our pride and align with Russia and Assad, or back out completely. Dumbass Obama is the one who decided to side with ISIS and now is doubling down on his dumbassery because he's too stubborn to admit he was wrong-all at the expense of the lives of hundreds of thousands of Syrians who lost their lives because of him.

[West-Side]

I wish we had a president with real balls.

http://pthumbnails.5min.com/10367040/518351988_c_embedStandard.jpg
http://freebeacon.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/obama-larger.png
http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1888398!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/article_635/russia-putin-cranes.jpg

Don't forget, Mr. Putin is a 10th degree black belt.
Higher than our infamous Chuck Norris.

:bowdown:

[pinhead]

So proud to be European right now. Thank you, Mr Putin.

If we left it up to them American ******* we would all be dead soon.

[Nick Young]

Don't forget, Mr. Putin is a 10th degree black belt.
Higher than our infamous Chuck Norris.

:bowdown:


So proud to be European right now. Thank you, Mr Putin.

If we left it up to them American ******* we would all be dead soon.

Putin is literally saving the world right now, nearly single-handedly. He also is masterfully playing the Crimea/Ukraine conflict and schooling us there as well. WHY THE PHUCK CAN'T WE FIND AN AMERICAN WHO IS ON HIS LEVEL AND WANTS TO RUN FOR PRESIDENT? Every single person running in the elections on both parties is a patsy bitch, except Donald Trump, and Trump would stand no chance vs Putin+is a joke candidate.

[kurple]

Don't forget, Mr. Putin is a 10th degree black belt.
Higher than our infamous Chuck Norris.

:bowdown:
like anyone in russia would refuse him the 10th degree black belt.. he probably got it before his first work out

[WallIn]

Syria was a safe, peaceful country under Assad's rule, have we even heard about one terrorist attack (e.g. car bomb) in Syria till 2011? What, Assad suddenly became a psycho in 2011 and tried to kill everybody? Seems legit.

Libya(2011) and Iraq(2003) were also relatively safe, under a strong rule. Muslims do not understand democracy hence the vaccum was filled by radical muslim freaks.

God bless Egyptian Army, if not for them the North Africa would be truly doomed entirely.

[Nick Young]

like anyone in russia would refuse him the 10th degree black belt.. he probably got it before his first work out
Betas:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

Always trying to discredit the achievements of people who are better than them.

[KevinNYC]

Aren't those anti-Assad rebels, basically ISIS or other radical muslim groups.Basically no.

You have ISIS, you have Nusra, you have about 12 groups associated with Nusra and then another coalition that is about 100 different factions.

Nusra is the official Al-Qaeda wing in Syria. Nusra and ISIS are both radical muslim groups, but they are are also enemies even though ISIS came out of what used to Al Qaeda in Iraq.

So it's very much a multiple front war. Let's say you took ISIS out of the picture and Assad out of the picture. You would probably still have a civil war, but it more of a single front, Nusra against the coalition.

If you remember in Afghanistan, in the 80's, a bunch of different mujahedeen groups were fighting the Soviets who were backing the Afghan government. The Soviets pulled out by 1989. The communist local Afghan Government kept on fighting until 1992. That didn't end the Civil War. The mujahadeen formed an Islamic government that shared power except for one group, a group that still had support from Pakistan and they starting shelling the Capital and war went on for four more years until the Taliban took over. Even then they didn't control the full country and in 2001 we formed a coalition with their enemy the Northern Alliance.

[dunksby]

you're jumbling Up a couple things -- ISIS is not Nusra -- you're the Division 30 plan has been a debacle. However this too little effort started in 2015 (too late?) And represented a change in course.

It's been a Bay of pigs level disaster. As soon as they hit the battlefield they were kidnapped by nusra And assad bombed their headquarters from planes.
The head quit saying it wasnt A serious effort to set a force that
Could stand alone and fight
Now who is jumpling up things? Islamist extremist is Islamist extremist, didn't ISIS were part of Nusra first?

[WallIn]

Basically no.

You have ISIS, you have Nusra, you have about 12 groups associated with Nusra and then another coalition that is about 100 different factions.

Nusra is the official Al-Qaeda wing in Syria. Nusra and ISIS are both radical muslim groups, but they are are also enemies even though ISIS came out of what used to Al Qaeda in Iraq.

So it's very much a multiple front war. Let's say you took ISIS out of the picture and Assad out of the picture. You would probably still have a civil war, but it more of a single front, Nusra against the coalition.

If you remember in Afghanistan, in the 80's, a bunch of different mujahedeen groups were fighting the Soviets who were backing the Afghan government. The Soviets pulled out by 1989. The communist local Afghan Government kept on fighting until 1992. That didn't end the Civil War. The mujahadeen formed an Islamic government that shared power except for one group, a group that still had support from Pakistan and they starting shelling the Capital and war went on for four more years until the Taliban took over. Even then they didn't control the full country and in 2001 we formed a coalition with their enemy the Northern Alliance.

So wait a second. US is actually helping that Nusra faction which is associated with Al Queda? That's fked up :biggums:

[dunksby]

You do realize the Putin's main motive in Syria is keep Assad in place, correct? ISIS is secondary at best.

Charles Lister who is quoted in the article you posted on Division 30 is a Syria watcher who is very Anti-Assad, he argues in so many Putin is going to take advantage of anti-ISIS cover to go after Assad's enemies. His tweets today say it's already happening.
Secular Syria vs crazed Sunni Syria, wow what a hard choice :facepalm

[KevinNYC]

like anyone in russia would refuse him the 10th degree black belt.. he probably got it before his first work out
My nephew was coached in hockey by one of the ex-Soviets stars who had moved to NY...one of the guys from the Miracle on Ice game...considered by the best in his position in the world. He went back to Russia a few years ago. Putin took up hockey recently. This guy's son was going to be on the opposite team. He said, no matter what you do, don't defend on Putin.

I think Putin had three hat tricks.

[Nick Young]

So wait a second. US is actually helping that Nusra faction which is associated with Al Queda? That's fked up :biggums:
Yep.
https://syrianfreepress.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/obama-terrorist-supporter-warpress-info.jpg

[kurple]

My nephew was coached in hockey by one of the ex-Soviets stars who had moved to NY...one of the guys from the Miracle on Ice game...considered by the best in his position in the world. He went back to Russia a few years ago. Putin took up hockey recently. This guy's son was going to be on the opposite team. He said, no matter what you do, don't defend on Putin.

I think Putin had three hat tricks.
that entire family is bitchmade

and only a beta brings a gun when he goes hunting? make it a fair fight

[Patrick Chewing]

I wish we had a president with real balls.

http://pthumbnails.5min.com/10367040/518351988_c_embedStandard.jpg
http://freebeacon.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/obama-larger.png
http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1888398!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/article_635/russia-putin-cranes.jpg


OHHHH YEAH!!!!

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/6-04-2014/1rLy9h.gif

[NumberSix]

Why is Obama so deadest on Assad going? It's like he didn't see what getting rid of Saddam did. At some point, people have to recognize that he WANTS Islamists running wild.

[Nick Young]

OHHHH YEAH!!!!

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/6-04-2014/1rLy9h.gif
http://alibertarianfuture.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/obama-do-you-even-lift-bro-putin-copy.png

[KevinNYC]

So wait a second. US is actually helping that Nusra faction which is associated with Al Queda? That's fked up :biggums:
No, it's a multi front war.

Back in July when the American trained Division 30 group was deployed they were immediately attacked by Nusra. (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/01/world/middleeast/nusra-front-attacks-us-backed-syrian-rebel-group.html?_r=0) Nusra either had spies or were tipped off, but they apparently knew where this group was going to enter Syria and they snatched them

Rivals of ISIS Attack U.S.-Backed Syrian Rebel Group[QUOTE]BAGHDAD

[Patrick Chewing]

Straight killa!!

http://24.media.tumblr.com/ed35ef42665168f09730854dda12ecd0/tumblr_mj03d1BwfJ1rmkk0lo1_400.gif

[Nick Young]

Straight killa!!

http://24.media.tumblr.com/ed35ef42665168f09730854dda12ecd0/tumblr_mj03d1BwfJ1rmkk0lo1_400.gif
Meanwhile, in America...
http://beforeitsnews.com/mediadrop/uploads/2014/05/7bc0603f086fed5879c210319763e29402b3f516.jpg

[KevinNYC]

Why is Obama so deadest on Assad going? It's like he didn't see what getting rid of Saddam did. At some point, people have to recognize that he WANTS Islamists running wild.
Wet a towel down with cool water, place in on the back of your neck.

Sit for a bit with the lights out. You're catching Nick Young's fever dream.

[NumberSix]

Lol. Russia is claiming that ISIS has WMDs. Putin is definitely trolling.

[Nick Young]

Lol. Russia is claiming that ISIS has WMDs. Putin is definitely trolling.
lol christ, saying that shit to mock America and so he has the excuse to do whatever he wants. Putin is absolutely destroying us. Best pure politician going right now. USA NEEDS BADASS MACHIAVELLIANS LIKE THIS IN CHARGE. Not scrubs like Hillary, Carly, Joe Bieden or Trump:facepalm

http://a.abcnews.com/images/Politics/GTY_putin_clinton_jef_140604_16x9_608.jpg
cdn.thewire.com/media/img/upload/wire/2014/06/04/putin-1/lead_large.jpg
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/photo/2012-09/08/131836766_61n.jpg
Imagine if Hillary gets in to office. Putin will have the United States in his pocket as Clinton's menopausal panties will wetten every time she's in the same room as him.

Meanwhile, Putin is banging this dime piece as well as the entire Moscow ballerina contingent.
http://www.nationalturk.com/en/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Alina-Kabayeva.png

And meanwhile, in the white house, our commander in chief goes to sleep every night next to this
http://www.diggersrealm.com/mt/archives/20090406/the-real-michelle-obama-2.jpg

[Patrick Chewing]

Meanwhile, in America...
http://beforeitsnews.com/mediadrop/uploads/2014/05/7bc0603f086fed5879c210319763e29402b3f516.jpg


Step into my Dojo, Barack!!

http://static4.businessinsider.com/image/5315ede0ecad04896d6f6139/putintakedown.gif

[ThePhantomCreep]

Putin currently presides over a failing Russian economy--he wishes he had a fraction of the power of his predecessors.

The right-wingers above are slurping on powerless dick.

[Nick Young]

Putin currently presides over a failing Russian economy--he wishes he had a fraction of the power of his predecessors.

The right-wingers above are slurping on powerless dick.
His country is doing poorly and doesn't have much resources and still he is dominating the world stage with pure old school Machiavellian politics. This is like the third massive L he is giving to America in the past two years alone.

[longhornfan1234]

Straight killa!!

http://24.media.tumblr.com/ed35ef42665168f09730854dda12ecd0/tumblr_mj03d1BwfJ1rmkk0lo1_400.gif


Putin is such a BOSS!!!!!:bowdown: :bowdown:

[ThePhantomCreep]

His country is doing poorly and doesn't have much resources and still he is dominating the world stage with pure old school Machiavellian politics. This is like the third massive L he is giving to America in the past two years alone.

His fierce bark isn't backed by Russia's feeble economic bite. :lol

You post dopey memes, Obama backs sanctions that cripple Russia's economy, while forcing Assad to remove his Russian-made chemical weapons. I think our CIC is got the better end of that one.

Also, notice that Russia's planes didn't fly in areas where the United States is operating. Putin knows better, even if his groupies don't.

[Nick Young]

His fierce bark isn't backed by Russia's feeble economic bite. :lol

You post dopey memes, Obama backs sanctions that cripple Russia's economy, while forcing Assad to remove his Russian-made chemical weapons. I think our CIC is got the better end of that one.

Also, notice that Russia's planes didn't fly in areas where the United States is operating. Putin knows better, even if his groupies don't.
Russia is pwning USA on the political stage. You attempting to spin things Obama's way with tired CNN talking points will not change anything.

[KevinNYC]

Russia released a fake map today showing that ISIS was in the places they bombed
Also a Russian spokesman say this today "hasn't most of 'Free Syrian Army' joined ISIS?"

He must read ISH.

[Nick Young]

Russia released a fake map today showing that ISIS was in the places they bombed
Also a Russian spokesman say this today "hasn't most of 'Free Syrian Army' joined ISIS?"

He must read ISH.
They are openly mocking the US government. Surely can recognize this.

[knickballer]

Putin. I want to hate this n1gga so bad but I just can't. He grabs every crisis by the balls and deals with it no BS.

The man may be corrupted(But what US politician isn't?) but atleast Putin has the nerve to grab a situation by the balls and do what's needed and not care about the criticism.

[KevinNYC]

Taking bets on whether or not Putin eliminates ISIS before Obama is out of office.

We have a year and a half.
What's the over/under on when the first MANPADS start flowing in?

[ThePhantomCreep]

They are openly mocking the US government. Surely can recognize this.

Yeah, and NK threatens us with nuclear annihilation every other year.

All bark, no bite.

[LJJ]

Lol. Russia is claiming that ISIS has WMDs. Putin is definitely trolling.

Uh yeah. (https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/islamic-state-accused-of-using-mustard-gas-in-syria-attack/2015/08/25/14df23d0-4b3b-11e5-80c2-106ea7fb80d4_story.html) This has been known for a while now and has been confirmed by the US as well as Russia.

It's been relatively quiet in the news though, because before "IS" was a known quantity the western MSM smeared Assad claiming he used chemical weapons on his own citizens. Turns out all these chemical attacks have come from IS and other current and former US backed groups.

[longhornfan1234]

Bush said Obama makes Carter look like a gladiator. :lol


Obama is taking more Ls left and right.

[KevinNYC]

Turns out all these chemical attacks have come from IS and other current and former US backed groups.

Evidence?

The Ghouta Attack was the largest chemical attack of the war on the UN report pretty conclusive pointed to the Syrian government which then agreed to give up its weapon program and get rid of its dangerous chemicals, one of which was not known to be used in Sarin production previously and which was found at Ghouta.

Also do the rebels have helicopters from which to drop barrel bombs with chlorine containers within? Because barrel bombs dropped from helicopters is the signature weapon of the Syrian government in this war.

[KevinNYC]

Bush said Obama makes Carter look like a gladiator. :lol
You just quoted Bush. :lol

[dude77]

His fierce bark isn't backed by Russia's feeble economic bite. :lol

You post dopey memes, Obama backs sanctions that cripple Russia's economy, while forcing Assad to remove his Russian-made chemical weapons. I think our CIC is got the better end of that one.

Also, notice that Russia's planes didn't fly in areas where the United States is operating. Putin knows better, even if his groupies don't.

lol russia just pushed their way into syria and the middle east .. into the usa's domain .. not a fk given .. he is straight up owning obama .. he doesn't respect obama .. he knows obama is a limp wristed little ho who won't do anything .. he is making him look like a bitch in front of the world .. how embarrassing for the great us of a .. the gay strutting peanut head doesn't stand a chance against a real alpha like putin .. limp wristed liberals defending their limp wristed president .. go figure

[longhornfan1234]

You just quoted Bush. :lol


Bush had our enemies scared after 9/11. Bush didn't go around giving an apology tour.

[Nick Young]

Putin. I want to hate this n1gga so bad but I just can't. He grabs every crisis by the balls and deals with it no BS.

The man may be corrupted(But what US politician isn't?) but atleast Putin has the nerve to grab a situation by the balls and do what's needed and not care about the criticism.
This is key here. Russia has less than half of the resources that the US has but they still beat us in every key political stand off that has come up in the past 5 years, due to Putin's strong leadership and ballsyness.

[LJJ]

Evidence?

The Ghouta Attack was the largest chemical attack of the war on the UN report pretty conclusive pointed to the Syrian government which then agreed to give up its weapon program and get rid of its dangerous chemicals, one of which was not known to be used in Sarin production previously and which was found at Ghouta.

Also do the rebels have helicopters from which to drop barrel bombs with chlorine containers within? Because barrel bombs dropped from helicopters is the signature weapon of the Syrian government in this war.

Actually this isn't true. The UN report didn't explicitly implicate the Syrian army for these attacks at all. All this "points at" is just interpretation and conjecture by other parties, not the official conclusion of the UN inspectors. All the UN reports states is that chemical weapons have definitely been used, and the Syrian army would have had access to these weapons. But the Islamists would have had access to these weapons also.



When the rebels do their chemical attacks, there are eyewitness accounts all over the place from the Kurds, the Syrian armed forces, citizens, foreign humanitarian workers, results from independent chemical analyses, etc. They have done it and are still doing it and the evidence is widespread.

When Assad "does it" the only direct source seems to be from coming from within the Islamist strongholds. Yet still this view that the Syrian army is the main party committing war crimes which has been fueled by propaganda and unsubstantiated smear-campaigns exists among the ill-informed masses, as you just now so perfectly demonstrated.

[Nick Young]

Uh yeah. (https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/islamic-state-accused-of-using-mustard-gas-in-syria-attack/2015/08/25/14df23d0-4b3b-11e5-80c2-106ea7fb80d4_story.html) This has been known for a while now and has been confirmed by the US as well as Russia.

It's been relatively quiet in the news though, because before "IS" was a known quantity the western MSM smeared Assad claiming he used chemical weapons on his own citizens. Turns out all these chemical attacks have come from IS and other current and former US backed groups.
LOL, I was still under the impression that Assad actually did use chemical weapons on his own peeps.. But it was ISIS all along.

Thanks Obama for arming psychopaths with chemical gas! Putin is 100% in the right here.

[Nick Young]

lol russia just pushed their way into syria and the middle east .. into the usa's domain .. not a fk given .. he is straight up owning obama .. he doesn't respect obama .. he knows obama is a limp wristed little ho who won't do anything .. he is making him look like a bitch in front of the world .. how embarrassing for the great us of a .. the gay strutting peanut head doesn't stand a chance against a real alpha like putin .. limp wristed liberals defending their limp wristed president .. go figure
This is the sad truth. We need a Teddy Roosevelt in charge right now and all we got is Jimmy Carter II

[Patrick Chewing]

Putin currently presides over a failing Russian economy--he wishes he had a fraction of the power of his predecessors.

The right-wingers above are slurping on powerless dick.


Dude your shtick is tiring. Doesn't your brown ass have a grandma or something to take care of? Go make me an arepa and tamales or something pendejo.

[Patrick Chewing]

Meanwhile, somewhere in Syria....


http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y3/Babich4000/Putin-GIF_zpsiw1bsn8o.gif

[ThePhantomCreep]

Meanwhile, somewhere in Syria....


http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y3/Babich4000/Putin-GIF_zpsiw1bsn8o.gif

That's the same look Putin has while you slurp on his shaft/tickle his balls. That's one of your pics, isn't it?

Ronald Reagan would disown your traitorous ass were he still with us.

[KevinNYC]

Bush had our enemies scared after 9/11. Bush didn't go around giving an apology tour.
Bush made a disastrous foreign policy mistake after 9/11.

One that was completely self inflicted and reverberates to this day, to the topic of this very thread.

[Patrick Chewing]

Bush made a disastrous foreign policy mistake after 9/11.

One that was completely self inflicted and reverberates to this day, to the topic of this very thread.


But you don't progress by harping on past mistakes or blaming the other guy. You lead, and fix the mistakes. Barack has done neither.

We're way past blaming Bush at this point.

[KevinNYC]

Actually this isn't true. The UN report didn't explicitly implicate the Syrian army for these attacks at all. All this "points at" is just interpretation and conjecture by other parties, not the official conclusion of the UN inspectors. All the UN reports states is that chemical weapons have definitely been used, and the Syrian army would have had access to these weapons. But the Islamists would have had access to these weapons also.The UN inspectors were not allowed to implicate anyone. That was an explicit demand of the Syrian government when they finally allowed access to Ghouta.

Another UN group pointed out that quite large amounts of sarin were used and they matched Syria's Sarin.

[QUOTE]Chemical weapons
127. In its report, the United Nations Mission to Investigate Allegations of the Use of Chemical Weapons in the Syrian Arab Republic confirmed that chemical weapons, specifically sarin, had been used in multiple incidents during the conflict. The commission independently collected information, confirming this finding in the case of Al-Ghouta (21 August), Khan Al-Assal (19 March) and Saraqib (29 April).
128. In Al-Ghouta, significant quantities of sarin were used in a well-planned indiscriminate attack targeting civilian-inhabited areas, causing mass casualties. The evidence available concerning the nature, quality and quantity of the agents used on 21 August indicated that the perpetrators likely had access to the chemical weapons stockpile of the Syrian military, as well as the expertise and equipment necessary to manipulate safely large amount of chemical agents. Concerning the incident in Khan Al-Assal on 19 March, the chemical agents used in that attack bore the same unique hallmarks as those used in Al-Ghouta.
129. Other allegations of chemical weapons use investigated displayed markedly different circumstances and took place on a significantly smaller scale. In no incident was the commission

[Nick Young]

Meanwhile, somewhere in Syria....


http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y3/Babich4000/Putin-GIF_zpsiw1bsn8o.gif
Meanwhile, in America
https://theblacksphere.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/obamathrow2.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_o8vd6YjZSiM/TNMZHbKqmwI/AAAAAAAAFWo/4kisbFrJ950/s400/Obama+judo.jpg

[Patrick Chewing]

oh shit :oldlol:

[LJJ]

The UN inspectors were not allowed to implicate anyone. That was an explicit demand of the Syrian government when they finally allowed access to Ghouta.



Utter nonsense. Fantasy. No, the UN doesn't have some kind of deal with Assad that they cannot implicate the Syrian army in atrocities. Absolutely laughable propaganda to the point that it's hard to understand how anyone can believe that is true.


Another UN group pointed out that quite large amounts of sarin were used and they matched Syria's Sarin.


Right after Ghouta Syria agreed to give up them chemical weapon program

When Syria was asked by the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons if they were missing any chemical weapons, they said no, it was under strict control. They didn't have any answer for how that could be if the sarin used at Ghouta was the same.

When Syria gave up their chemical weapon program, they themselves put on the prohibited list a chemical that was not known previously to be used in Sarin production, this chemical was also found on site at Ghouta. They turned over 80 tons of it to the OPCW.

Yes, it's a civil war. They don't know what happened to anything and will maintain they are under control, those sound like typical "no comment, everything is under control" statements that have been spun around a bit.



I mean, even today you are quoting based sources that try to say only the Syrian government has access to chemical weapons and has the expertise to use them. And that this is the proof that it's one side. This is all news from that time when the media were espousing that "those sweet, secular, non-terrorist rebels are just trying to stop Assad from killing and eating babies, and they are using sticks are rocks to fight the military" fabrications.
But now we absolutely know for a fact that the Islamists have chemical weapons, know how to use them and actually do use them. These sources and statements are very outdated.

I also love how Syria's cooperation in getting rid of chemical weapon stockpiles (even ones that are unknown to other countries) is somehow proof that they used them and their punishment. I mean, what? The spin is real.

[dunksby]

ISIS has been using chloride bombs on civilians and the Syrian army as well.

[CeltsGarlic]

http://i.imgur.com/EiZOiYc.gifhttp://i.imgur.com/EiZOiYc.gif

[BoutPractice]

The world so desperately wants to believe Putin is this tactical mastermind, they're completely oblivious to the big, giant trap he's just fallen into.

Number one rule in of politics in the Middle East and Central Asia: don't go in there (not even strategically, but especially not tactically), you'll just waste a ton of money, and end up making the situation even worse, losing your credibility in the process.

What the hawks don't realize is that most of the time, you don't defeat your adversaries by fighting them. (The truth is, they're more interested in showing how tough they are and justifying out of control defense spending than actually winning and helping their country).

Most of the time, your enemy self-destructs by overplaying his hand.

The historical record is clear. When European countries went to war with one another other hoping to assert their supremacy, who won? The United States. Who lost? The whole of Europe. When the United States went all in in Vietnam, the clear loser was... the United States. When the Soviet Union went to Afghanistan, it precipitated their eventual collapse. And when the United States went into Iraq, they suffered a truly massive blow they still haven't fully recovered from.

Let Putin go all in. In the end, he's just the paranoid dictator of a backward country, picking expensive fights in multiple countries simultaneously all the while his economy is tanking. He's doing all this, not because he's strong, but because he's afraid his own people will get tired of him and want to depose him in what RT will no doubt call a "CIA backed coup", the day he and his gang of spies run out of imaginary threats to protect Russia against.

China is the true rising power (and the US still the lone superpower in the world, which they could remain for a still pretty decent time if they don't kill themselves with stupid). The rest are just engaged in silly little games they'll end up losing anyway.

[fiddy]

The world so desperately wants to believe Putin is this tactical mastermind, they're completely oblivious to the big, giant trap he's just fallen into.

Number one rule in of politics in the Middle East and Central Asia: don't go in there (not even strategically, but especially not tactically), you'll just waste a ton of money, and end up making the situation even worse, losing your credibility in the process.

What the hawks don't realize is that most of the time, you don't defeat your adversaries by fighting them. (The truth is, they're more interested in showing how tough they are and justifying out of control defense spending than actually winning and helping their country).

Most of the time, your enemy self-destructs by overplaying his hand.

The historical record is clear. When European countries went to war with one another other hoping to assert their supremacy, who won? The United States. Who lost? The whole of Europe. When the United States went all in in Vietnam, the clear loser was... the United States. When the Soviet Union went to Afghanistan, it precipitated their eventual collapse. And when the United States went into Iraq, they suffered a truly massive blow they still haven't fully recovered from.

Let Putin go all in. In the end, he's just the paranoid dictator of a backward country, picking expensive fights in multiple countries simultaneously all the while his economy is tanking. He's doing all this, not because he's strong, but because he's afraid his own people will get tired of him and want to depose him in what RT will no doubt call a "CIA backed coup", the day he and his gang of spies run out of imaginary threats to protect Russia against.

China is the true rising power (and the US still the lone superpower in the world, which they could remain for a still pretty decent time if they don't kill themselves with stupid). The rest are just engaged in silly little games they'll end up losing anyway.
A trap set up by the U.S., which has been a WW3 for the past 15 years. China has shitload of internal problems.

[StephHamann]

A trap set up by the U.S., which has been a WW3 for the past 15 years. China has shitload of internal problems.

This is not about countries, this is a cultural war between the Western World and Islam. This cultural war is not only about the war in the Middle East, Islamic groups are gaining more and more support in Europe and the USA without killing a single person.

Read Samuel Huntington, everything he wrote 20 years ago is now in full effect.

[BoutPractice]

fiddy > They do, but their overall economic rise is based on real factors - making things and selling them.

They'll go through recessions like everyone else does, and at some point the one party dictatorship will crack, but they're still most likely headed towards superpower status if they play their cards right.

Russia? They'll have to completely rethink their strategy. Nuclear and energy blackmail can only work so long.

[fiddy]

fiddy > They do, but their overall economic rise is based on real factors - making things and selling them.

They'll go through recessions like everyone else does, and at some point the one party dictatorship will crack, but they're still most likely headed towards superpower status if they play their cards right.

Russia? They'll have to completely rethink their strategy. Nuclear and energy blackmail can only work so long.
China is pushing too hard in South China Sea, if the relationship between the U.S. and China breaks down? From an economic stand point it would be a disaster for the Chinese, which would be in humanitarian crisis in no time.

[NumberSix]

China is pushing too hard in South China Sea, if the relationship between the U.S. and China breaks down? From an economic stand point it would be a disaster for the Chinese, which would be in humanitarian crisis in no time.
Maybe it's time to take the handcuffs off of Japan? :confusedshrug:

[ISHGoat]

China is pushing too hard in South China Sea, if the relationship between the U.S. and China breaks down? From an economic stand point it would be a disaster for the Chinese, which would be in humanitarian crisis in no time.

Any economic disaster that hurts China will also hurt USA, and the rest of the world. It's in both China's and USA's best interest to keep good terms with each other and maintain peace.

[fiddy]

Any economic disaster that hurts China will also hurt USA, and the rest of the world. It's in both China's and USA's best interest to keep good terms with each other and maintain peace.
Unless the U.S. sees China as a threat for its dominance and drags everyone else. China will suffer the most of such scenario.

[UK2K]

Russia's first airstrikes in Syria Wednesday targeted areas held by rebels receiving arms, funding, and training from the CIA and killed dozens of civilians, according to U.S. officials and published reports.

The Syrian National Council, a group opposed to Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, told Sky News that at least 36 people had been killed by airstrikes in the western city of Homs, including five children. Khaled Khoja, the SNC's leader, told Sky that none of the four areas targeted by Russian planes Wednesday contained ISIS fighters and called Moscow's claim that it was helping the U.S.-led coalition defeat the terror group "baseless."

See, Russia doesn't give a **** who they kill.

When dealing with cave people, that's the mentality we should have.

[Derka]

Putin actually taking a risk is what gets me here. He's always been a big talker and more than happy to play Captain Hindsight regarding flawed US policies in that region so to see him taking decisive action in the international stage is a change for him. I'm surprised he's actually putting his troops and hardware out there for something other than a strictly Russian affair...though I don't think he'll enjoy the backlash that will come from doing a dictator's dirty work for him by wiping out his opposition, ISIS or otherwise. You'd think a Soviet would have learned a lesson or two with regard to power plays in this part of Asia.

[KevinNYC]

Utter nonsense. Fantasy. No, the UN doesn't have some kind of deal with Assad that they cannot implicate the Syrian army in atrocities. Absolutely laughable propaganda to the point that it's hard to understand how anyone can believe that is true.It was widely discussed in 2013 that the UN was there on a fact finding mission only. Here's how the Arms Control Association described it the fact finding mission (http://armscontrolnow.org/2013/09/16/hard-evidence-from-the-un-inspectors-point-to-assads-cw-use/)
Determining which party in the conflict launched the attacks fell outside the mandate of the UN team. At Ghouta, the UN was prevented from accessing the site for four days by the Syrian army because they continued shelling the location. (You would think if they were sure the rebels used sarin, they would want the UN there as quick as possible and would want the world to know.) After negotiation with Syria, they were let it to conduct a fact-finding mission only (http://www.un.org/sg/statements/index.asp?nid=7041). [QUOTE]The Secretary-General has instructed the Mission under Dr. Sellstr

[KevinNYC]

But you don't progress by harping on past mistakes or blaming the other guy. You lead, and fix the mistakes. Barack has done neither.

We're way past blaming Bush at this point.
A. I was responding to someone who cited Bush's performance after 9/11. So it was completely relevant.

B. I'm quite curious as to what you think the mistakes were and what would take to fix them.

Would you support putting another 150,000 or so US troops back on the ground?

[NumberSix]

A. I was responding to someone who cited Bush's performance after 9/11. So it was completely relevant.

B. I'm quite curious as to what you think the mistakes were and what would take to fix them.

Would you support putting another 150,000 or so US troops back on the ground?
The Obama administration made some really stupid mistakes. Blinded by stupid hatred of Assad. Now, there can probably never be an "alliance" between the United States and the Assad regime. I know Assad isn't a great guy, but he surely isn't any worse than the Saudis. Now we're stuck with a situation where Assad will retain power and be allined with Russia and Iran and unfriendly to the United States.

[UK2K]

A. I was responding to someone who cited Bush's performance after 9/11. So it was completely relevant.

B. I'm quite curious as to what you think the mistakes were and what would take to fix them.

Would you support putting another 150,000 or so US troops back on the ground?
We could do it with far less if our hands weren't tied behind our backs.

[zoom17]

Putin actually taking a risk is what gets me here. He's always been a big talker and more than happy to play Captain Hindsight regarding flawed US policies in that region so to see him taking decisive action in the international stage is a change for him. I'm surprised he's actually putting his troops and hardware out there for something other than a strictly Russian affair...though I don't think he'll enjoy the backlash that will come from doing a dictator's dirty work for him by wiping out his opposition, ISIS or otherwise. You'd think a Soviet would have learned a lesson or two with regard to power plays in this part of Asia.

Russia has been Syria ally since the the 1970s so of course they will help Assad. They also have a naval port in Syria that is important to them. It's sad that people want to see terrorist take over Syria. That's exactly what's going to happen if Assad leaves power. Look at Libya without gaddafai, Iraq without Saddam.

[KevinNYC]

We could do it with far less if our hands weren't tied behind our backs.
What is the it?

[Patrick Chewing]

A. I was responding to someone who cited Bush's performance after 9/11. So it was completely relevant.

B. I'm quite curious as to what you think the mistakes were and what would take to fix them.

Would you support putting another 150,000 or so US troops back on the ground?


Bush's performance after 9/11 is the best the country could have done at the time. Everybody was in favor of Iraq and Afghanistan invasions. Only years later do we see that it wasn't the best course of action. But you don't solve the problem by cutting and running and throwing away any and all progress we made in that region.

And where do you come up with 150,000?? That's WWII numbers. Such an exaggeration from you.

You could eliminate ISIS with 1% of that number. Yeah, you read correctly, 1 percent.

[Nick Young]

Russia has been Syria ally since the the 1970s so of course they will help Assad. They also have a naval port in Syria that is important to them. It's sad that people want to see terrorist take over Syria. That's exactly what's going to happen if Assad leaves power. Look at Libya without gaddafai, Iraq without Saddam.
Yep. Fundamentalist barbarity is what's going to happen in Syria if Assad goes away. The country isn't suddenly going to join hands and sing "Kumbayah" and agree to a fair democratic election if Assad disappears. Especially because all of the wealthy, middle class and educated people have already gotten the phuck out of Syria and I doubt they'll want to come back any time soon. It is going to get even worse, as the noble freedom fighting rebels will purge, murder and rape everyone who disagrees with them.


Russia is doing what needs to be done.

Obama isn't going to do shit to counter this move and Putin knows it.

[KevinNYC]

The Obama administration made some really stupid mistakes.

I very curious as to what you think the mistakes are.

I'm very interested in strategy and decision making, especially strategy in very complex situations where there are few if any good options? Are you familiar with game theory? It's something I like to learn more about. From the little I know about it there are two takeaways, one is that your opponent always gets to respond to your choice, so you have to plan for aftereffects and secondly, you may wind up in a situation where you anything you choose to do will have negative consequences including doing nothing.

Add in issues of morality, global realpolitik, desires vs means to acheive those desires, etc and the complexity skyrockets. Folks on ISH hate that sort of shit. They would rather post memes. As long I can find a picture of my guy in sunglasses, well then I win, Deal With It.

Also so much of criticism seems genuinely knee-jerk, either-knee-jerk anti-western or anti US or if-he's-for-it, I-must-be-against-it-Anti-Obamaism. So you can't actually have a substantive discussion about real decisions/choices/mistakes. So many people on this board believe that Obama started this war.


Anyway, so I interested in what folks think the mistakes that were made and why.....what is a mistake to you may not be to others.

[KevinNYC]

And where do you come up with 150,000?? That's WWII numbers. Such an exaggeration from you.

Before I answer this. How many troops do you think we had when we invaded?


Bonus question, How many troops did we have in Vietnam?

[Patrick Chewing]

Before I answer this. How many troops do you think we had when we invaded?


Bonus question, How many troops did we have in Vietnam?


ISIS is not on the scale of any of the aforementioned, so why would you think we would need such high troop levels? Or are you using those troop levels to justify an anti-war rant down the line?

[longhornfan1234]

Kevin just take the L like a man and start a thread about something else. :lol

[KevinNYC]

ISIS is not on the scale of any of the aforementioned, so why would you think we would need such high troop levels? Or are you using those troop levels to justify an anti-war rant down the line?
Answer the question.

[Patrick Chewing]

Answer the question.


There's nothing to answer. Had Obama put 1500 troops on the ground when he should have a couple of years ago, or just simply have left troops there to begin with, we would not be having this discussion. And if you want to stoop to prepubescent levels here, I asked you a question first.

[UK2K]

What is the it?

Eliminate ISIS.

[LJJ]

It was widely discussed in 2013 that the UN was there on a fact finding mission only. Here's how the Arms Control Association described it the fact finding mission (http://armscontrolnow.org/2013/09/16/hard-evidence-from-the-un-inspectors-point-to-assads-cw-use/)

That's not the laughable part. The laughable part is you alleging that Assad somehow has control over what the UN inspectors are allowed say about what they found and made a deal with the UN.

Hilarious, absolutely laughable.


So a long story short. The UN report didn't find that the Syrian government committed those attacks. The countries who have been against Assad from the beginning said it was probably the Syrian government, the countries on Assad's side said it was probably the rebels. Both sides without definitive proof either way. (although you have question the motives which are really strong on one side and really weak on the other, and of course all the facts about use of chemical weapons that came it since then)


What we do know though is that since then, it has been factually confirmed the rebels are using chemical weapons by both their supporters and opponents.

[KevinNYC]

There's nothing to answer. I take it that you actually looked up the number of troops we had in Iraq.

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/BuiRJs3IEAANk-r.png

For virtually all of the war, we had over 120,000 troops in Iraq in addition to tens of thousands of troops from the UK and other countries.

Even with this presence Iraq still slid into a civil war.

in Vietnam, we peaked at over 500,000[QUOTE]http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-EENE2FLhBR4/VYm1n-wT8FI/AAAAAAAAFOM/VlN87bcL7N8/s1600/2951a.jpg/QUOTE]

WWII troop levels peaked in 1945
8,267,958 in army
3,380,817 in the navy
474,680 in the marines

[Nick Young]

Kevin taking L's left and right.

Obama has proven himself to be a bloodthirsty war monger the past 8 years of his reign. You helped put this guy in to office KevinNYC. The blood he spilled is on your conscience. Deal with it.

[ISHGoat]

KevinNYC taking the L here no doubt. But hey, at least you have tranny rights and feminism and shit

[UK2K]

Kevin taking L's left and right.

Obama has proven himself to be a bloodthirsty war monger the past 8 years of his reign. You helped put this guy in to office KevinNYC. The blood he spilled is on your conscience. Deal with it.

Hindsight is 20/20. No point in playing the blame game now. I know the left will decree the war in Iraq was Bush's fault, despite Democratic support, but there's nothing that will change the past now.

The important part is focusing on what can be done about it now, and right now, the US is looking stupid.

[KevinNYC]

Eliminate ISIS.

You've served. What do you think of Chewing's estimate?


1500 troops on the ground

To consider
Who holds the ground once we drive ISIS out?

Do you think ISIS was stronger in Iraq in 2007 when they were Al Qaeda in Iraq or today?

[ArbitraryWater]

The world so desperately wants to believe Putin is this tactical mastermind, they're completely oblivious to the big, giant trap he's just fallen into.

Number one rule in of politics in the Middle East and Central Asia: don't go in there (not even strategically, but especially not tactically), you'll just waste a ton of money, and end up making the situation even worse, losing your credibility in the process.

What the hawks don't realize is that most of the time, you don't defeat your adversaries by fighting them. (The truth is, they're more interested in showing how tough they are and justifying out of control defense spending than actually winning and helping their country).

Most of the time, your enemy self-destructs by overplaying his hand.

The historical record is clear. When European countries went to war with one another other hoping to assert their supremacy, who won? The United States. Who lost? The whole of Europe. When the United States went all in in Vietnam, the clear loser was... the United States. When the Soviet Union went to Afghanistan, it precipitated their eventual collapse. And when the United States went into Iraq, they suffered a truly massive blow they still haven't fully recovered from.

Let Putin go all in. In the end, he's just the paranoid dictator of a backward country, picking expensive fights in multiple countries simultaneously all the while his economy is tanking. He's doing all this, not because he's strong, but because he's afraid his own people will get tired of him and want to depose him in what RT will no doubt call a "CIA backed coup", the day he and his gang of spies run out of imaginary threats to protect Russia against.

China is the true rising power (and the US still the lone superpower in the world, which they could remain for a still pretty decent time if they don't kill themselves with stupid). The rest are just engaged in silly little games they'll end up losing anyway.

bam

[UK2K]

You've served. What do you think of Chewing's estimate?



To consider
Who holds the ground once we drive ISIS out?

Do you think ISIS was stronger in Iraq in 2007 when they were Al Qaeda in Iraq or today?

1500 would not be enough. It's one thing to engage the enemy, its another to hold the ground. With 1500, it would basically be like playing Whack-A-Mole, where you can chase them from one side of the country to the other, but they'll keep springing up where you just left.

In my eyes, 10,000 would be the bare minimum. 10-20k with an aggressive attitude (as opposed to the 160,000 we had with a passive attitude) would do the job.

But in reality, we could send 500,000 and without the support of the Iraqi military, and THEIR OWN willingness to die for a better Iraq, it wouldn't change a thing.

Iraq, land wise, is roughly the size of California. 1500 could engage, but 1500 couldn't hold. While engaging and holding are equally important, you absolutely cannot have one without the other and expect to win.

[Nick Young]

bam
Putin isn't going all in though. So this whole rant is irrelevant.

[KevinNYC]

That's not the laughable part. The laughable part is you alleging that Assad somehow has control over what the UN inspectors are allowed say about what they found and made a deal with the UN.

Hilarious, absolutely laughable.It's laughable that you deny that lengthy dealmaking negotiations occurred with Syria (http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/world/article/un-presses-syria-to-allow-gas-attack-inspection#sthash.h3eTagGO.dpuf) before Syria made a deal with the UN.
Reuters August 2013.
After months of negotiating with Assad's government to let inspectors into Syria, a UN team arrived in Damascus four days ago. Their task is to check on the presence, but not the sources, of chemical weapons that are alleged to have been released in three specific, small incidents several months ago.

It's laughable that you act like one of Syria's closest allies sits is not a permanent member of the UN Security Council.

Laughable that you're not aware that that ally Russia has held up the UN from determining responsibility including rebel responsibility. for recent chemical attacks for most of this year.

June 2015
Russia talking with U.S. on assigning blame for Syria gas attacks (http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Middle-East/2015/0910/Why-did-Russia-delay-a-UN-probe-into-gas-attacks-in-Syria)
Syria agreed to destroy its chemical weapons in 2013, but the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons has since found chlorine gas has been "systematically and repeatedly" used as a weapon. The group does not have a mandate to lay blame.

....Russia is a Syrian ally and has protected President Bashar al-Assad from council action during the four-year civil war.

September 10th 2015. (http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Middle-East/2015/0910/Why-did-Russia-delay-a-UN-probe-into-gas-attacks-in-Syria)

Why did Russia delay a UN probe into gas attacks in Syria?
The United Nations announced Thursday it would begin an investigation to determine what groups have used chemical weapons in Syria, after a delay by Russia.

...Several council diplomats said Moscow was concerned the inquiry could end up confirming allegations by Western nations and rebels that the government of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad has repeatedly used chemical weapons, including deadly sarin and, more recently, chlorine.....

Syria agreed to destroy its chemical weapons in 2013 in an effort to avert US military strikes threatened over a sarin gas attack that killed hundreds of civilians. The OPCW has since found chlorine has been "systematically and repeatedly" used as a weapon, though it is not mandated to lay blame.

A separate UN investigation had previously determined that sarin gas was used repeatedly in Syria to deadly effect, but that inquiry was also barred from assigning blame.

[ISHGoat]

It's laughable that you deny that lengthy dealmaking negotiations occurred with Syria (http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/world/article/un-presses-syria-to-allow-gas-attack-inspection#sthash.h3eTagGO.dpuf) before Syria made a deal with the UN.
Reuters August 2013.
After months of negotiating with Assad's government to let inspectors into Syria, a UN team arrived in Damascus four days ago. Their task is to check on the presence, but not the sources, of chemical weapons that are alleged to have been released in three specific, small incidents several months ago.

It's laughable that you act like one of Syria's closest allies sits is not a permanent member of the UN Security Council.

Laughable that you're not aware that that ally Russia has held up the UN from determining responsibility including rebel responsibility. for recent chemical attacks for most of this year.

June 2015
Russia talking with U.S. on assigning blame for Syria gas attacks (http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Middle-East/2015/0910/Why-did-Russia-delay-a-UN-probe-into-gas-attacks-in-Syria)

September 10th 2015. (http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Middle-East/2015/0910/Why-did-Russia-delay-a-UN-probe-into-gas-attacks-in-Syria)

All that I see from your quotes is that chemical weapons have indeed been found, but no blame has been attributed. So I dont understand how you think this is helping your case. Are we supposed to believe that a President just started gassing his own people for the luls? Or is it more likely that it was the Islamic extremists that were gassing people?

[ThePhantomCreep]

Putin isn't going all in though. So this whole rant is irrelevant.

It is when you post shirtless pictures of Putin, acting like he's going to drive ISIS out of Syria :oldlol:.

[KevinNYC]

1500 would not be enough. It's one thing to engage the enemy, its another to hold the ground. With 1500, it would basically be like playing Whack-A-Mole, where you can chase them from one side of the country to the other, but they'll keep springing up where you just left.

In my eyes, 10,000 would be the bare minimum. 10-20k with an aggressive attitude (as opposed to the 160,000 we had with a passive attitude) would do the job.

But in reality, we could send 500,000 and without the support of the Iraqi military, and THEIR OWN willingness to die for a better Iraq, it wouldn't change a thing.

Iraq, land wise, is roughly the size of California. 1500 could engage, but 1500 couldn't hold. While engaging and holding are equally important, you absolutely cannot have one without the other and expect to win.

Not just Iraq but Syria also.

One of my problems with Chewing is like to make solutions look easier while minimizing the problem.

It's a late date to be underestimating ISIS. That's a genuine mistake Obama made that we should have learned from by now. Also they are not just lining up on a battlefield. Insurgency and asymmetric warfare have proven to be very, very thorny issues.

[Nick Young]

It is when you post shirtless pictures of Putin, acting like he's going to drive ISIS out of Syria :oldlol:.
He's supporting Assad, trolling the US and doing whatever the phuck he wants and calling the US' bluff knowing that Obama is a bitch who has zero strength behind any of his threats.

Your boy Obama has been taking constant L's from Putin for the past 8 years.
http://images.realclear.com/279357_5_.jpg

[Nick Young]

All that I see from your quotes is that chemical weapons have indeed been found, but no blame has been attributed. So I dont understand how you think this is helping your case. Are we supposed to believe that a President just started gassing his own people for the luls? Or is it more likely that it was the Islamic extremists that were gassing people?
Or is it more likely that the Pentagon helped and aided Islamic extremists to gas people so they had an excuse and justification to go all in vs Assad?

Similar to the whole "WMDs in Iraq" fiasco under W. Bush. It worked the first time so they did it again.

[KevinNYC]

All that I see from your quotes is that chemical weapons have indeed been found, but no blame has been attributed. That was indeed my point. My further point is the organizations making ruled out assigning any blame. They literally have only come to an agreement on actually determining blame less than a month ago. This delay was due in large part to Russia dragging out this process for fear that many of the recent chlorine bombs dropped from helicopters and planes would be laid right at the feet of the regime, for the simple fact of, I don't know, the rebels don't have an air force.
Are we supposed to believe that a President just started gassing his own people for the luls? Or is it more likely that it was the Islamic extremists that were gassing people?Do you know what Assad has been doing to his own people with conventional weapons? You do know that the current refugee crisis in Europe is in large part due to a stepped campaign of bombing of the civilian areas. Do a google news search for barrel bombs for the last few months. Also in Ghouta which by far the largest chemical attack and by far the best documented, there's a ton of evidence pointing to the regime. For any rebel group to pull it off, religious extremist or otherwise, they would have had to procure with bulky weapons systems that are known to by used by the Syrian army filled with Sarin that matches Syria's stockpile and then somehow smuggle these weapons systems into an area controlled by the regime undetected and set them off without being noticed. Then after the whole area has been notified and set on high alert, set off another attack 2 hours later from pretty much the same location.

Speaking of game theory, if you want to know why a Dictator does what he does I recommend this book by a game theorist.
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51rJWjD28HL._SX331_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg
http://www.amazon.com/The-Dictators-Handbook-Behavior-Politics/dp/1610391845

[fiddy]

Do you know what Assad has been doing to his own people with conventional weapons? You do know that the current refugee crisis in Europe is in large part due to a stepped campaign of bombing of the civilian areas.


Shut up bitch and mind your own business. The refugee crisis is to be blamed on the U.S. and its partners for supporting the opposition that made the conflict worse and drove the people out of their lands. Not to mention that IS is a product of the U.S.

[Nick Young]

Do you know what Assad has been doing to his own people with conventional weapons? You do know that the current refugee crisis in Europe is in large part due to a stepped campaign of bombing of the civilian areas.
Do you have any idea what Obama has been doing to his own people with conventional weapons?

Refuges have been fleeing Syria DUE TO THE CIVIL WAR, started by US backed "noble freedom fighters" aka ISIS. Obama provided IS with the funding and weapons to become what they are today, and even provided them with military training. When Assad was putting down the fundamentalists and in power, THE COUNTRY WAS SAFE AND STABLE, and more importantly, the people were happy and didn't get their houses blown up.

Your boy Obama is entirely to blame for this Syrian Civil War. He is the one who decided to side with the team that rapes women and children and makes youtube videos about chopping peoples heads off and eating their hearts.

It is not your place to judge other cultures and decide how they rule themselves. What are you, some kind of Islamaphobic racist Imperialist?

[LJJ]

It's laughable that you deny that lengthy dealmaking negotiations occurred with Syria (http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/world/article/un-presses-syria-to-allow-gas-attack-inspection#sthash.h3eTagGO.dpuf) before Syria made a deal with the UN.

This has to do with Syria allowing UN investigators movement in Syria under their protection.

Once they have done their inspection, which they were allowed to do by the Syria government under their protection, they get to write their report far away from Assad and any Syrian influence. Like they are going to hold it back if they witnessed any severe human rights crime? Like they have any obligation to? Laughable and total nonsense. They weren't there for that reason, nor have they found anyone to blame. Not because of Assad, but because the people in charge here namely the US and Russia have opposite views on the Syrian conflict.

You are already changing the goal posts to "Well it's Russia who is involved with blocking these things". In other words, a completely different party than the ridiculous shit you were alleging initially.

Yes, Russia is indeed taking Syria's side, no doubt about that. And we should be happy at least someone is stepping up to try and stop the violence, rather than the US and it's allies who have been doing everything they can to increase the violence.

[ThePhantomCreep]

He's supporting Assad, trolling the US and doing whatever the phuck he wants and calling the US' bluff knowing that Obama is a bitch who has zero strength behind any of his threats.

Your boy Obama has been taking constant L's from Putin for the past 8 years.
http://images.realclear.com/279357_5_.jpg

Yawn

Call me when Putin does something besides sending a few planes over the skies of Syria. He killed a few dozen civilians... and that's about it.

Don't expect ISIS to suffer many sleepless nights because of this.

[StephHamann]

Yes, Russia is indeed taking Syria's side, no doubt about that. And we should be happy at least someone is stepping up to try and stop the violence, rather than the US and it's allies who have been doing everything they can to increase the violence.

https://media.giphy.com/media/UmBdALbYTmCJ2/giphy.gif












https://media.giphy.com/media/10M4qWWSPNqKAM/giphy.gif

[Nick Young]

Yawn

Call me when Putin does something besides sending a few planes over the skies of Syria. He killed a few dozen civilians... and that's about it.

Don't expect ISIS to suffer many sleepless nights because of this.
He already stopped US and UK from going in to Syria and fighting alongside the rebels against Assad last year by calling John Kerry's bluff. Now he is sending in military to assist Assad's regime in order to stabilize the region. He is also dominating the UK-Crimea situation by repeatedly ignoring and calling the bluffs of the US and UN's threat. Putin has been accomplishing things for a long time, and once again I will state he has been doing it with less than half the resources the United States of America have.

Assad is clearly the lesser of two evils here. Under Assad there was no civil war, Syria had a high standard of living and the people were happy and not being killed by the hundreds of thousands.

[KevinNYC]

Human Rights Watch has a brief quick video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilanR5_YeEo) on how they conducted their investigation into Ghouta. At 2:20 in they have a media clip saying that laying blame was outside the mandate of the UN inspectors.

They mention that not only were Syrian army the only ones previously shown using the particular missiles that delivered the Sarin, something I did not know, they have the records that show when these Soviet designed missiles were delivered to Syria. Also despite the clear video evidence of a neurotoxin attack--the videos showed many people dead but no blood--the Syrian government denied for a few days that there was any evidence of a chemical attack.

When they looked into claims the rebels did Ghouta, the evidence was very weak.

[ThePhantomCreep]

He already stopped US and UK from going in to Syria and fighting alongside the rebels against Assad last year by calling John Kerry's bluff. Now he is sending in military to assist Assad's regime in order to stabilize the region. He is also dominating the UK-Crimea situation by repeatedly ignoring and calling the bluffs of the US and UN's threat. Putin has been accomplishing things for a long time, and once again I will state he has been doing it with less than half the resources the United States of America have.

Assad is clearly the lesser of two evils here. Under Assad there was no civil war, Syria had a high standard of living and the people were happy and not being killed by the hundreds of thousands.

:lol

Extreme anti-war sentiment back home has stopped them, not shirtless Putin and his failing economy.

[9erempiree]

Obama has failed us. The worst president in history.

[UK2K]

Not just Iraq but Syria also.

One of my problems with Chewing is like to make solutions look easier while minimizing the problem.

It's a late date to be underestimating ISIS. That's a genuine mistake Obama made that we should have learned from by now. Also they are not just lining up on a battlefield. Insurgency and asymmetric warfare have proven to be very, very thorny issues.

That's why a sizable force needs to be there to hold the ground. It takes time to eliminate an ideology. You have to eliminate the teachers, and then educate those remaining.

Like I said, with 1500 we could chase and kill ISIS all over the place, but it takes more than that to hold the area until the population comes around.

But again, without the Iraqi army standing up for themselves, we could send a million men there and it wouldnt matter.

[Nick Young]

:lol

Extreme anti-war sentiment back home has stopped them, not shirtless Putin and his failing economy.
Wrong, fool.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/10/kerry-russia-syria-weapons-proposal-assad

This only happened due to Putin calling out Kerry on a statement he made.

Thank you Putin.

[poido123]

Obama has failed us. The worst president in history.


I honestly thought no one could be worse than George Bush Jnr.


I was wrong. Obama is working for the enemy

[ThePhantomCreep]

Wrong, fool.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/10/kerry-russia-syria-weapons-proposal-assad

This only happened due to Putin calling out Kerry on a statement he made.

Thank you Putin.

-Obama calls for Assad to removes chemical weapons, or else.

-Assad, with the aid of Putin, removes said weapons.

Idiot conservative logic: "Putin pwned Obama! Where are my shirtless pics!"

[Nick Young]

-Obama calls for Assad to removes chemical weapons, or else.

-Assad, with the aid of Putin, removes said weapons.

Idiot conservative logic: "Putin pwned Obama! Where are my shirtless pics!"
Wow you're retarded. That's only how the White House spun this AFTER Putin called their bluff and UN agreed to Putin's proposal. White House tried to spin this as a victory after taking a massive L from Putin and the saps like you just eat it up.

I'm not a "conservative". I'm just not retarded. Think for yourself brah. The whole "Conservative" "Liberal" divide is something used by US politicians to make the people think they have a choice. In reality, the democrats and republicans are BOTH moderate conservative parties that agree on everything except for a few surfacey talking point issues that don't really matter in the grand scheme of things, like gay marriage and reproductive rights.

[KevinNYC]

This has to do with Syria allowing UN investigators movement in Syria under their protection.

Once they have done their inspection, which they were allowed to do by the Syria government under their protection, they get to write their report far away from Assad and any Syrian influence. Like they are going to hold it back if they witnessed any severe human rights crime? Like they have any obligation to? Laughable and total nonsense. You have no ****ing clue how the UN works. The months long negotiations with Syria were not about protecting the UN inspectors. It's because the Syrians wanted to severely limit where the UN could inspect. It didn't want the UN to look at several incidents the US, France and others were blaming on the regime.

The UN Secretary General is not an independent actor. His authority is based on resolutions (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_resolution) that pass through the Security Council. The UN has these things called terms of reference that spells out what they are going to do and they take those things very seriously.

In 2013, their mandate was not to assign blame. It's taken two years since the worst chemical attack since 1988 to get the Security Council to agree to expand their mandate to assign blame. In fact in 2013, they didn't even have an agreed upon way to do assign blame. They do now, in UNspeak it's called the OPCW-UN Joint Investigative Mechanism and it was just passed in this resolution (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_Resolution_2235) in August and it was approved in September and it's only in effect for a year.

This is the reason they didn't go beyond their mandate in 2013 because going beyond their authority would be a grievous violation of protocol AND it would severely cripple their status as impartial and neutral observers. Once they lose that they become just another jackass in the debate. A discredited UN would be one the greatest boons to bad actors on the planet.

Because they take their authorizations and mandates and terms of reference, this language is far as they will could go in 2013.


The Secretary-General condemns in the strongest possible terms the use of chemical weapons and believes that this act is a war crime and grave violation of the 1925 Protocol for the Prohibition of the Use in War of Asphyxiating, Poisonous or Other Gases, and of Bacteriological Methods of Warfare and other relevant rules of customary international law. The international community has a moral responsibility to hold accountable those
responsible and for ensuring that chemical weapons can never re-emerge as an instrument of warfare.
You are already changing the goal posts to "Well it's Russia who is involved with blocking these things". In other words, a completely different party than the ridiculous shit you were alleging initially.You must really enjoy ventriloquist shows.

Yeah, I'm sure Russian and Syrian foreign ministers don't talk about Security Council resolutions affecting Syria. Oh wait, they do. (https://www.google.com/search?q=muallem+lavrov&oq=Muallem+lav&aqs=chrome.0.0j69i57.1879j0j4&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8#q=Lavrov+and+Muallem+meet+)

[KevinNYC]

Are we back to pretending that forcing Assad to give up his chemical weapons stockpile to the UN to be destroyed and having Syria join the UN Convention on chemical weapons is a bad thing?

[bdreason]

Russia still using Jets? :oldlol:



Learn2drone.

[fiddy]

Russia still using Jets? :oldlol:



Learn2drone.
Those sand monkeys dont have the means to shot down a jet, unless.... changes that

[fiddy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=4&v=N041DXAK5BI

Ron Paul :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: on point as usual

[ThePhantomCreep]

Wow you're retarded. That's only how the White House spun this AFTER Putin called their bluff and UN agreed to Putin's proposal. White House tried to spin this as a victory after taking a massive L from Putin and the saps like you just eat it up.

I'm not a "conservative". I'm just not retarded. Think for yourself brah. The whole "Conservative" "Liberal" divide is something used by US politicians to make the people think they have a choice. In reality, the democrats and republicans are BOTH moderate conservative parties that agree on everything except for a few surfacey talking point issues that don't really matter in the grand scheme of things, like gay marriage and reproductive rights.


Yes, I'm sure it was part of Putin's master plan to have the chemical weapons HE SUPPLIED to Assad removed from Syria.

That really showed us. :lol

Only a feeble conservative mind could spin that into Putin "owning" Obama.

[KevinNYC]

Re-reading this thread while logged out...and thus seeing all the posts....

Missed this amazing bit.

Under Assad there was no Civil War. :biggums:

[Jameerthefear]

hi idk what this means someone explain

[Nick Young]

hi idk what this means someone explain
Putin is styling all over the USA like this
http://static3.businessinsider.com/image/5315ede1eab8ea602900c54d/putin%20toss.gif
And Obama be like
http://www.the-conservative-underground.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Poodle-President.jpg

[longhornfan1234]

Putin is styling all over the USA like this
http://static3.businessinsider.com/image/5315ede1eab8ea602900c54d/putin%20toss.gif
And Obama be like
http://www.the-conservative-underground.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Poodle-President.jpg



So much BOSS oozing out of Putin's pores... :bowdown: :bowdown:

[KingBeasley08]

We need to keep doing what we're doing. Collude with the Saudis and destroy Russia's economy. Putin's been neutered these past few two years

[LJJ]

Yeah, I'm sure Russian and Syrian foreign ministers don't talk about Security Council resolutions affecting Syria. Oh wait, they do. (https://www.google.com/search?q=muallem+lavrov&oq=Muallem+lav&aqs=chrome.0.0j69i57.1879j0j4&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8#q=Lavrov+and+Muallem+meet+)

So now the UN and Russia are puppets who dance to Assad's demands.

:roll:

Right on bud. You have it figured out.

[KevinNYC]

So much BOSS oozing out of Putin's pores... :bowdown: :bowdown:
what else do you fantasize oozing out of Putin?

[Nick Young]

We need to keep doing what we're doing. Collude with the Saudis and destroy Russia's economy. Putin's been neutered these past few two years
Putin has hardly been neutered. He recently annexed Crimea and has been dominating the EU and United States politically the past two years.

[KingBeasley08]

Putin has hardly been neutered. He recently annexed Crimea and has been dominating the EU and United States politically the past two years.
He annexed Crimea at the start. Since then he's been sitting next to Ukraine doing nothing while his country goes through an even bigger recession than we went through a few years back :oldlol:

Putin is smart though. He knows his people will turn on him so he has to show strength. But EU and USA got no problems at all. While our economies are recovering, their economy reduced by 2% this year :eek:

[Nick Young]

He annexed Crimea at the start. Since then he's been sitting next to Ukraine doing nothing while his country goes through an even bigger recession than we went through a few years back :oldlol:


The Russian people are convinced they're in a war with the West. They actually think this. Putin is winning the propaganda war. Apart from the obnoxious ***** Riot, the people like Putin and are happy with the job he's doing, and they're blaming America and the EU for their economic problems. The Russians are united.

Also, what do you want Putin to be doing in Ukraine? Do you want him to be sending troops in and murdering people? He got Crimea back for Russia, he's happy. Minimal effort was made to reacquire a nice piece of property. Putin got exactly what he wanted and suffered very little repercussions despite the US and UN and Nato issuing several empty threats that they never followed through with.

USA and EU are getting phucked by a massive immigrant aka refuge problem on the way. Stay tuned.

[9erempiree]

America was founded by geniuses and ran by idiots.

[Patrick Chewing]

"Putin is going into Syria not out of strength, but out of weakness." - Direct quote from Obama today.

:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

How out of touch and clueless is this guy?? Obama is going out as a straight up bitch.

[9erempiree]

Obama is embarrassing us day by day. :facepalm

[Nick Young]

"Putin is going into Syria not out of strength, but out of weakness." - Direct quote from Obama today.

:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

How out of touch and clueless is this guy?? Obama is going out as a straight up bitch.
This shit is like 1984, complete doublespeak.:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

Absolutely disgusting, how stupid does he think we are? Oh wait, I forgot that most of the country was made up of cretins like KevinNYC. XD

[KyrieTheFuture]

Wow you're retarded. That's only how the White House spun this AFTER Putin called their bluff and UN agreed to Putin's proposal. White House tried to spin this as a victory after taking a massive L from Putin and the saps like you just eat it up.

I'm not a "conservative". I'm just not retarded. Think for yourself brah. The whole "Conservative" "Liberal" divide is something used by US politicians to make the people think they have a choice. In reality, the democrats and republicans are BOTH moderate conservative parties that agree on everything except for a few surfacey talking point issues that don't really matter in the grand scheme of things, like gay marriage and reproductive rights.
So why do you talk about it all the time?

[Nick Young]

So why do you talk about it all the time?
I never do. :hammerhead: Why are you making shit up?

[Patrick Chewing]

Black Bush > Obama

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Z9Hvo7p8Dw

[KevinNYC]

"Putin is going into Syria not out of strength, but out of weakness." - Direct quote from Obama today.


Direct quote, but I'll be 100 dollars you didn't quote the full sentence.

[HitandRun Reggie]

So how many of Obama's red lines has Put in crossed now? :facepalm

[Patrick Chewing]

So how many of Obama's red lines has Put in crossed now? :facepalm


I think Putin's been dragging that red line with him wherever he goes and just places it back in front of him.

[Smook B]

https://i.gyazo.com/6b84bf2bfaaf27dac91b5d8fa14d364e.png

[Smook B]

One day after US accuses Russia of bombing Syrian civilians, US bombs a hospital in Afghanistan killing 9 doctors and 19 total. :facepalm

http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/03/asia/afghanistan-doctors-without-borders-hospital/

[poido123]

One day after US accuses Russia of bombing Syrian civilians, US bombs a hospital in Afghanistan killing 9 doctors and 19 total. :facepalm

http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/03/asia/afghanistan-doctors-without-borders-hospital/



Social media interfering with everything.

It's a war, you're going to have collateral damage. Only that Iphones and twitter weeren't around in the first couple of wars, doesn't mean there wasn't unfortunate casualties.

[Smook B]

Social media interfering with everything.

It's a war, you're going to have collateral damage. Only that Iphones and twitter weeren't around in the first couple of wars, doesn't mean there wasn't unfortunate casualties.

My main point was the hypocrisy of the Obama administration.

[senelcoolidge]

It looks like they bombed a hospital in Afghanistan and now the U.S. is apologizing. Obama is failing each and every day. Isn't one of his big military guys an openly gay guy..:facepalm .

[fiddy]

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=b71_1443926523

[dunksby]

I personally don't care about this pissing contest between the US and Russia as long as they bomb the terrorists to hell.

[StephHamann]

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=b71_1443926523


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70V0J5NHIfE

[Nick Young]

It looks like they bombed a hospital in Afghanistan and now the U.S. is apologizing. Obama is failing each and every day. Isn't one of his big military guys an openly gay guy..:facepalm .
phucking obama:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[ThePhantomCreep]

phucking obama:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

Bitch tits Putin drops bombs and you're practically fellating him via print. Now it's a bad thing? You think he gives a damn about collateral damage?

Pick a lane, groupie.

[Nick Young]

Bitch tits Putin drops bombs and you're practically fellating him via print. Now it's a bad thing? You think he gives a damn about collateral damage?

Pick a lane, groupie.
Putin is dropping bombs on Islamic fundamentalists trained and funded by the US who rape children and make viral youtube videos about eating people's hearts (http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/14/world/meast/syria-eaten-heart/), and ISIS.

Obama is bombing hospitals full of innocent civilians and doctors.

Which side you on brah?

[dunksby]

BEIRUT (Reuters) - Syrian troops and their allies, backed by Russian jets, attacked insurgent fighters south of Aleppo on Friday, a source in Syria and a monitoring group said, as the army expands a counter-offensive with support from Moscow's two-week-old air campaign.

"The military operation has started in rural southern Aleppo," a pro-government source in Syria said.

Rami Abdulrahman, director of the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, said there were heavy clashes near the Jebel Azzan region, about 12 km (8 miles) south of Aleppo city, control of which is divided between government forces and rebels.

The area the army and Russian jets were targeting was close to a main road heading south towards the capital Damascus, Abdulrahman said.

Since Russia launched air strikes on Sept. 30 in support of President Bashar al-Assad, the army has waged offensives against insurgent-held regions in western Syria, including a rebel pocket north of Homs and areas of Hama, Idlib and Latakia provinces taken by the rebels over the summer.

Beirut-based al-Mayadeen television said on Friday the army was fighting on three fronts south of Aleppo.

Abdulrahman said the army had recaptured the village of Abtin from rebel fighters, as well as a tank battalion base close to the village of Sabiqiya. Both villages lie close to Jebel Azzan. Rebels had hit one army tank with a U.S.-made TOW anti-tank missile.

He said Syrian troops were being supported by allied militia forces and Iranian fighters.

The involvement of Iranian soldiers could not immediately be confirmed, but two senior regional sources told Reuters this week that Iran has sent thousands of troops to Syria in recent days to bolster the offensive underway in Hama province and in preparation for another in the Aleppo area, which is in northern Syria.

The Observatory said the death toll from Thursday's fighting and air strikes north of Homs had risen to 60, including 30 women and children.E]
Seems like Syrian civil war is taking a huge turn in favor of Assad.

[Nick Young]

Sounds like Putin is getting shit done. In a few months he will have ended the war that took Obama 3 years to manufacture and create.

[StephHamann]

http://cdn.theatlantic.com/assets/media/img/photo/2011/09/vladimir-putin-action-man/p25_RTR2ESA3/main_900.jpg?GE2DEMBVGE4TINRRFYYA====

[KevinNYC]

Seems like Syrian civil war is taking a huge turn in favor of Assad.
Do you acknowledge now that Russia is not there to fight ISIS? That, in fact, Russia's presence is to provide Russian air cover for the Iranian, Lebanese and Syria offensive we are seeing now?

Supposedly, there were visits by senior Iranians to Moscow several months ago to discuss what to do if Assad lost more territory.

[dunksby]

Do you acknowledge now that Russia is not there to fight ISIS? That, in fact, Russia's presence is to provide Russian air cover for the Iranian, Lebanese and Syria offensive we are seeing now?

Supposedly, there were visits by senior Iranians to Moscow several months ago to discuss what to do if Assad lost more territory.
I never said they were there to only fight off ISIS, I'd rather have a secular Syria under Assad than let it be consumed by civil war among Islamist extremist tribes taking it back a thousand years.

[fiddy]

Do you acknowledge now that Russia is not there to fight ISIS? That, in fact, Russia's presence is to provide Russian air cover for the Iranian, Lebanese and Syria offensive we are seeing now?

Supposedly, there were visits by senior Iranians to Moscow several months ago to discuss what to do if Assad lost more territory.
So what? The so called "rebels" are terrorists by definition. You support terrorists? Get ya mind right

[LJJ]

Do you acknowledge now that Russia is not there to fight ISIS? That, in fact, Russia's presence is to provide Russian air cover for the Iranian, Lebanese and Syria offensive we are seeing now?

Supposedly, there were visits by senior Iranians to Moscow several months ago to discuss what to do if Assad lost more territory.

Yes it's clear Russia is combating all the extremist, terrorist groups. Including Islamic State, Al Qaeda and all their other allies.

Rather than doing a poor job of bombing Islamic State (more for strategic reasons than destructive reasons), while making sure massive amounts of arms come to Al Qaeda and the Islamic Front and other parts of the FSA, which is what the US did.

[UK2K]

Yes it's clear Russia is combating all the extremist, terrorist groups. Including Islamic State, Al Qaeda and all their other allies.

Rather than doing a poor job of bombing Islamic State (more for strategic reasons than destructive reasons), while making sure massive amounts of arms come to Al Qaeda and the Islamic Front and other parts of the FSA, which is what the US did.
[QUOTE]BEIRUT, Lebanon

[UK2K]

http://static4.businessinsider.com/image/55c8bb1f2acae76e098bd5e2-942-830/screenshot%202015-08-10%2010.53.29.png

[fiddy]

We need to get out of the 'rebel' game, and arm the Kurds instead. They know how to handle their shit.
Unfortunately wont happen until Turkey is in NATO and/or serviceable to the U.S.

[poido123]

Don't just stop at Syria...



:pimp:

[KevinNYC]

I never said they were there to only fight off ISIS, I'd rather have a secular Syria under Assad than let it be consumed by civil war among Islamist extremist tribes taking it back a thousand years.
You mentioned ISIS like they were the main focus of Russian intervention and they are not. Something like only 10% of the missile strikes in the first weeks have been against ISIS. Assad would very much like ISIS to be the last rebel group left to defeat.

From the very beginning of the War, Assad's strategy has been to sectarianize the war. To create the impression that none of the rebellion was legitimate and to claim that he and only he stood against a Sunni Jihadist Syria. He's been very successful at this. He's also has killed way more Civilians than ISIS and Nusra combined and is the prime cause of the refugee crisis.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-XrDt2N1PwKw/VM-rmvkjXII/AAAAAAAAP30/x7tHn5qgdBQ/w506-h874/9939_10152158567888294_249090217_n.jpg

Human Rights Watch points out that Syria (https://www.hrw.org/pt-br/node/281545) routinely bombs civilians far from where the battles are taking place.
When the Geneva Conventions are followed, the main casualties in war are combatants—people who have joined the fighting. Much of what makes the Syrian war so ugly is that the Assad government is also attacking civilians who live in areas seized by the armed opposition. The aim of this war-crime strategy is to depopulate these regions and send a lesson to other Syrians that they will be attacked if the opposition takes their neighborhood.

Assad’s most devastating weapon in this anti-civilian campaign has been the “barrel bomb”—a canister filled with explosives and metal fragments. Barrel bombs are dropped unguided from helicopters just above antiaircraft range, hitting the ground with huge explosions.

...Other weapons used indiscriminately kill also civilians, with various forces responsible, but Assad’s barrel bombs play a particularly big part in forcing millions of Syrians from their country. In most wars, civilians can find a modicum of safety by moving away from the front lines. But Assad’s indiscriminate use of barrel bombs deep in opposition-held territory means that many have no place to hide......barrel bombs are so imprecise that the Syrian military rarely drops them near the front lines for fear of hitting its own troops. They are used mainly to pummel civilian neighborhoods.

Indeed, far from facilitating the fight against extremist groups, Assad’s disregard for civilian life is one of their best recruitment tools. The Islamic State and the Nusra Front recruit Syrians by presenting themselves as forces that counter the Assad government’s atrocities.

....virtually all the Syrians I have spoken with agree that stopping Assad’s barrel bombs is now the most urgent task to reduce their suffering—and the flow of refugees.

The Syria War is a mess and it's not simply a black and white issue. I think a lot of folks here want to minimize Assad's culpability in this mess, because it forces it more towards black and white and simplifies the thinking about the whole issue. For example, I'm generally sympathetic to the Kurds and this week there have been reports from Amnesty International of Kurdish war crimes in Northern Syria.

[LJJ]

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-XrDt2N1PwKw/VM-rmvkjXII/AAAAAAAAP30/x7tHn5qgdBQ/w506-h874/9939_10152158567888294_249090217_n.jpg

Full on Islamist propaganda :roll:

[KevinNYC]

Full on Islamist propaganda :roll:
put out by Iranian dissidents too.

[LJJ]

put out by Iranian dissidents too.

The truth is that nobody who is even informed in the smallest amount really believes the "peaceful protests" bit. The protest were very violent with plenty of casualties on both sides from the beginning.

Nobody who is informed believes the bit where secular peaceful protests became Islamic State and Al Qaeda because of Assad either.

It's just ignorance or deliberately misleading propaganda.

[RidonKs]

The truth is that nobody who is even informed in the smallest amount really believes the "peaceful protests" bit. The protest were very violent with plenty of casualties on both sides from the beginning.

Nobody who is informed believes the bit where secular peaceful protests became Islamic State and Al Qaeda because of Assad either.

It's just ignorance or deliberately misleading propaganda.

people who say it's a straight cause and effect relationship are as narrow minded as you are. but there has still been all kinds of overlap between the islamic fundamentalism from the 80s to now and the public cry in the same regions for popular democracy... wading into that overlap is tricky.

whatever the case in whichever country one could focus on, one relationship is clear. when large groups of people start to actively disobey a tyrannical government, that opens up political space for other voices to be heard. the sexiest voice is usually lathered in religious rhetoric, and in a lot of cases such as the islamic state, that voice gains power and carries out atrocity.

its impossible to deny that relationship as well as many others.

[LJJ]

whatever the case in whichever country one could focus on, one relationship is clear. when large groups of people start to actively disobey a tyrannical government, that opens up political space for other voices to be heard. the sexiest voice is usually lathered in religious rhetoric, and in a lot of cases such as the islamic state, that voice gains power and carries out atrocity.

It's the other way around. Islamist extremism is at the very birth of the protests in Syria. The places the protests started are known Islamist hotbeds.

[RidonKs]

It's the other way around. Islamist extremism is at the very birth of the protests.
its dressing to stimulate emotions

the root is political and economic as per ALWAYS

[LJJ]

the root is political as per ALWAYS

Islamism is very political indeed.

[RidonKs]

Islamism is very political indeed.
yes but it is not economic

it is a social tradition

which makes no sense to blame for violence

unless you just hate it because it is different from your own

[LJJ]

Yes. The vast majority of the population in Syria are Muslims but don't want to live in an extremist Sunni theocracy. Most of the people who were and are heavily opposing the regime do want that. The people the US is arming do want that.

You can decide not to blamed Islamism for the violence and stick your head into the ground, but all the rebels there are fighting for their brand of Islam. This is again a modern brand of Orientalism. "Those poor Syrian rebels don't really understand their cause. They think they are fighting for Islam, but they are fighting for economic reasons.".

Al Qaeda and IS know very well what they are doing.

[Nick Young]

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-XrDt2N1PwKw/VM-rmvkjXII/AAAAAAAAP30/x7tHn5qgdBQ/w506-h874/9939_10152158567888294_249090217_n.jpg


That's not how it was at all though. The original "peaceful protesters" were actually terrorists trained and armed by the Obama administration, and carried out their "peaceful protests" by attacking police officers.

That is just pro-Islamist propaganda bullshit. Are you an Islamic Fundamentalist?

[Nick Young]

Yes. The vast majority of the population in Syria are Muslims but don't want to live in an extremist Sunni theocracy. Most of the people who were and are heavily opposing the regime do want that. The people the US is arming do want that.

You can decide not to blamed Islamism for the violence and stick your head into the ground, but all the rebels there are fighting for their brand of Islam. This is again a modern brand of Orientalism. "Those poor Syrian rebels don't really understand their cause. They think they are fighting for Islam, but they are fighting for economic reasons.".

Al Qaeda and IS know very well what they are doing.
Ding ding ding ding.

These people cannot hide their inherent racism, no matter how hard they try.

[Smook B]

Do you acknowledge now that Russia is not there to fight ISIS? That, in fact, Russia's presence is to provide Russian air cover for the Iranian, Lebanese and Syria offensive we are seeing now?

Supposedly, there were visits by senior Iranians to Moscow several months ago to discuss what to do if Assad lost more territory.

Russia has been bombing both ISIS and Al Nusra cause unlike Obama there aren't any moderates. :oldlol:

[RidonKs]

Yes. The vast majority of the population in Syria are Muslims but don't want to live in an extremist Sunni theocracy. Most of the people who were and are heavily opposing the regime do want that. The people the US is arming do want that.

You can decide not to blamed Islamism for the violence and stick your head into the ground, but all the rebels there are fighting for their brand of Islam. This is again a modern brand of Orientalism. "Those poor Syrian rebels don't really understand their cause. They think they are fighting for Islam, but they are fighting for economic reasons.".

Al Qaeda and IS know very well what they are doing.
these are intense conflicts of interests that you're reducing to RELIGION! ITS RELIGION! ISLAM CORRUPTS! which is the same old brand of orientalism we have been living with for centuries. label them other and get the fk on with progress and civilization and good ol western imposition... for their own good!

your inability to explain how islam lay dormant for so long, until only now it sprung into violent action... makes your blanket coverage of the issue downright stale. there is no historical analysis to your view. only "See they're SAYING its religion... see!"

check osama bin laden's first video, the first written demands he sent the american government, same for al-zawahiri, whoever else in the last 20 years, you know what you get? a bunch of practical geopolitical demands dripping with religious rhetoric and overtones. they know what they want and they're expressing their desires through an islamic lens; that brand of will to power is no different than the irish turning to militant catholicism.

the explanation is an underbelly of resentment among the honest masses who start to see a possibility of change. that the change takes a harsh and brutal form is not a historical exemption, it's a historical rule. and out of that harsh and brutal, but ultimately national rule, comes reform and democratization.

[UK2K]

these are intense conflicts of interests that you're reducing to RELIGION! ITS RELIGION! ISLAM CORRUPTS! which is the same old brand of orientalism we have been living with for centuries. label them other and get the fk on with progress and civilization and good ol western imposition... for their own good!

your inability to explain how islam lay dormant for so long, until only now it sprung into violent action... makes your blanket coverage of the issue downright stale. there is no historical analysis to your view. only "See they're SAYING its religion... see!"

check osama bin laden's first video, the first written demands he sent the american government, same for al-zawahiri, whoever else in the last 20 years, you know what you get? a bunch of practical geopolitical demands dripping with religious rhetoric and overtones. they know what they want and they're expressing their desires through an islamic lens; that brand of will to power is no different than the irish turning to militant catholicism.

the explanation is an underbelly of resentment among the honest masses who start to see a possibility of change. that the change takes a harsh and brutal form is not a historical exemption, it's a historical rule. and out of that harsh and brutal, but ultimately national rule, comes reform and democratization.

Social media. Youtube. Websites.

Its a lot easier to rally support now vs 100, 50, 20, or even 5 years ago.

Its easy to brainwash the masses (idiots) when you make the struggle about religion. Most cave people in the middle east dont know anything but religion.

[KevinNYC]

The truth is that nobody who is even informed in the smallest amount really believes the "peaceful protests" bit. The protest were very violent with plenty of casualties on both sides from the beginning.

Nobody who is informed believes the bit where secular peaceful protests became Islamic State and Al Qaeda because of Assad either.

It's just ignorance or deliberately misleading propaganda.
Oh for ****'s sake. You're going to retroactively describe what happened in March 2011?


UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon has described Syria's harsh crackdown on protests and use of deadly force against demonstrators as "unacceptable".

"The use of lethal force against peaceful demonstrators and their arbitrary arrests are unacceptable," Ban said on Friday, according his spokesman Martin Nesirky.

Syrian security forces killed three protesters and wounded hundreds in the southern city of Daraa on Friday, rights groups said, as demonstrations erupted across the country in the first major show of discontent under Bashar al-Assad's rule.

After two or three hours of clashes, the city was quieter at nightfall, with a heavy security presence.

[RidonKs]

Social media. Youtube. Websites.

Its a lot easier to rally support now vs 100, 50, 20, or even 5 years ago.

Its easy to brainwash the masses (idiots) when you make the struggle about religion. Most cave people in the middle east dont know anything but religion.
this is a different argument. a good explanation for the rise of violent independent attacks, but it has nothing to do with islam, yet anyway. make a case. you would have to test the militarism of islam against other religions during other eras to prove a correlation. when the islamic world got their first telephones, did the extremists go on a crazy binge because now they could call each other whenever they wanted?

the whole debate is silly anyway. just reflects a crazed perspective on religion from people who clearly are not religious and cannot relate to ancient faith. your type of religion isn't going to determine whether you're a suicide bomber or not... either you are not a suicide bomber and choose whichever faith you want, or you are a suicide bomber and choose a faith with a lot of other suicide bombers.

[LJJ]

Oh for ****'s sake. You're going to retroactively describe what happened in March 2011?

https://arabisouri.wordpress.com/2012/10/24/syria-myth-of-peaceful-protests/

Here. Can't post this enough, all linked with multiple decent sources.

Yes.. the government did crack down hard on violent riots and protests... true. Resulting in the death of a handful of people. Hardly the massive massacre of innocent civilians some people want to portray it as. Many policemen were also killed by violent, armed "protesters".

That is the reality. There have never been big scale peaceful protests, and the casualty numbers on both sides clearly reflect this.


Syria was also not a horribly repressive tyrannical dictatorship before this civil war. The government repression was more on the level of say... a Thailand. Now suddenly Assad is being painted as the worst dictator since Pol Pot. All a propaganda smear campaign.

[Smook B]

Kevin the majority of Syrians support Assad get that through your thick skull. Also many of the protesters had islamic views not beneficial to the Christians and other minorities that Assad protected. **** regime change, **** Turkey, **** Saudi Arabia mother of terrorism. Hope Assad and the Syrian people win this war.

[LJJ]

these are intense conflicts of interests that you're reducing to RELIGION! ITS RELIGION! ISLAM CORRUPTS! which is the same old brand of orientalism we have been living with for centuries. label them other and get the fk on with progress and civilization and good ol western imposition... for their own good!

your inability to explain how islam lay dormant for so long, until only now it sprung into violent action... makes your blanket coverage of the issue downright stale. there is no historical analysis to your view. only "See they're SAYING its religion... see!"

check osama bin laden's first video, the first written demands he sent the american government, same for al-zawahiri, whoever else in the last 20 years, you know what you get? a bunch of practical geopolitical demands dripping with religious rhetoric and overtones. they know what they want and they're expressing their desires through an islamic lens; that brand of will to power is no different than the irish turning to militant catholicism.

the explanation is an underbelly of resentment among the honest masses who start to see a possibility of change. that the change takes a harsh and brutal form is not a historical exemption, it's a historical rule. and out of that harsh and brutal, but ultimately national rule, comes reform and democratization.


Uhm.. seems you are the one oversimplifying and misrepresenting things:




the root is political and economic as per ALWAYS


I am relaying the real message among these rebels. It's not me saying "ITS RELIGION ITS RELIGION". It's the people committing the violence saying it, and I happen to believe them and take their word and their own explanation of their motivations at face value. You are the one saying these moronic Muslim Syrians/Iraqis/Mahrebians/Saudis/etc are all wrong and you know the true reason why they are behaving this way.

[Nick Young]

these are intense conflicts of interests that you're reducing to RELIGION! ITS RELIGION! ISLAM CORRUPTS! which is the same old brand of orientalism we have been living with for centuries. label them other and get the fk on with progress and civilization and good ol western imposition... for their own good!
Stop projecting your Imperialist Middle Class Western views on a group of people with a culture thousands of years old that you have shown you have absolutely zero understanding of.

[dunksby]

You mentioned ISIS like they were the main focus of Russian intervention and they are not. Something like only 10% of the missile strikes in the first weeks have been against ISIS. Assad would very much like ISIS to be the last rebel group left to defeat.

From the very beginning of the War, Assad's strategy has been to sectarianize the war. To create the impression that none of the rebellion was legitimate and to claim that he and only he stood against a Sunni Jihadist Syria. He's been very successful at this. He's also has killed way more Civilians than ISIS and Nusra combined and is the prime cause of the refugee crisis.

Human Rights Watch points out that Syria (https://www.hrw.org/pt-br/node/281545) routinely bombs civilians far from where the battles are taking place.

The Syria War is a mess and it's not simply a black and white issue. I think a lot of folks here want to minimize Assad's culpability in this mess, because it forces it more towards black and white and simplifies the thinking about the whole issue. For example, I'm generally sympathetic to the Kurds and this week there have been reports from Amnesty International of Kurdish war crimes in Northern Syria.
I have always maintained that Islamist extremism should be rooted out, in whatever form it manifests itself, ISIS or other savage tribes. I back a lot of Obama's policies, but when some policy is wrong in my eyes, I say it as it is.

[KevinNYC]

https://arabisouri.wordpress.com/2012/10/24/syria-myth-of-peaceful-protests/

Here. Can't post this enough, all linked with multiple decent sources.


Wow.

Wow.

I quoted the head of the UN speaking out in March 2011 and you give me some German leftist writing in fall 2012.

If you want to look at the events of March 2011, you can google the Syrian government spokeswoman Bouthaina Shaaban. She gave a speech saying the state of Emergency would be lifted in Syria, that mistakes were made in Deraa and their would be an investigation of those who shot protestors and that Assad personally gave new instructions that live ammunition was not to be used against protesters.

The next day live ammunition was used.

[LJJ]

Wow.

Wow.

I quoted the head of the UN speaking out in March 2011 and you give me some German leftist writing in fall 2012.

If you want to look at the events of March 2011, you can google the Syrian government spokeswoman Bouthaina Shaaban. She gave a speech saying the state of Emergency would be lifted in Syria, that mistakes were made in Deraa and their would be an investigation of those who shot protestors and that Assad personally gave new instructions that live ammunition was not to be used against protesters.

The next day live ammunition was used.

There are sources dating back to March 2011. Hell. You can even look on Wikipedia. Even though clearly written from a western slant, even wikipedia doesn't try to cover up that these protests escalated into violence from the very beginning with casualties on both sides.

Somehow people desperately try to cling to that narrative of Assad constantly indiscriminately massacring citizens when there is just no real evidence to back it. Again, Syria under Assad before the civil war = Middle Easter Thailand. Not Nazi-Germany or Pol Pot Cambodia. A place where 99% of people live in relative peace and quiet. One of the safest places in the ME for outsiders.

Why this place is so far up there for the US and their Saudi buddies to mess up? Well we all know the reason, and it isn't tyranny.

[DonDadda59]

A month and a half into this bitch... what's the scorecard looking like?

Has George W. Putin found those WMDs yet? Has 'Mission Accomplished' been declared. RIP to the victims of the Russian Metrojet bombing (and the victims in Turkey, Beirut, and now France during the Putin offensive). Don't worry though Alpha Male Putin is coming to your rescue. :applause:

[Nick Young]

George W. Obama is a better comparison.

[NumberSix]

George W. Obama is a better comparison.
Neville Obama is better.

[DonDadda59]

George W. Obama is a better comparison.


Neville Obama is better.

You dunces are so easily swayed by fake tough guy posturing and fluff. No wonder Ric Flair has been leading the GOP primaries for this long. :roll:

[Smook B]

Took a while but the Syrian Army getting backed by Russian airstrikes are advancing on many fronts in Syria.

[Smook B]

It's getting so bad for the jihadist that Saudi Arabia threatened to send ground troops. Which were mocked by Syria, Iran and Russia.

[Smook B]

A month and a half into this bitch... what's the scorecard looking like?

Has George W. Putin found those WMDs yet? Has 'Mission Accomplished' been declared. RIP to the victims of the Russian Metrojet bombing (and the victims in Turkey, Beirut, and now France during the Putin offensive). Don't worry though Alpha Male Putin is coming to your rescue. :applause:

Check again my friend.

[poido123]

Check again my friend.


Don only checks stats and reports that suit him.



According to him, Obama is god. Fact is, he's f.cked up America badly and slowly disintegrated their identity with his worldly bullshit.


Luckily it's coming to an end. No more of this homo, PC liberalist bullshit.

[Dresta]

Yawn

Call me when Putin does something besides sending a few planes over the skies of Syria. He killed a few dozen civilians... and that's about it.

Don't expect ISIS to suffer many sleepless nights because of this.
:facepalm