Today's defender does have one advantage that they didn't have in the past.

[ClipperRevival]

And it's the verticality rule. In the past, if the offensive player was contacted while in the air, even if the defender was strictly vertical, it would usually be called a foul on the defender.

Today, that is obviously not the case and this gives the interior defenders a good advantage that they didn't have in the past. Didn't Hibbert popularize this move?

[SHAQisGOAT]

Something of that nature has been around since forever, tbh... But the verticality rule, or whatever they call it, is brought up a lot nowadays (or even officially implemented?) because of the restricted area arc, which didn't exist back then... You had players not being able to do much at all when someone drove into the paint, mostly because of that restricted area; at least now you see more of nothing being called when the defender goes straight up, verticality rule serving its purpose due to it.

So, if you "take into account" the restricted area, that advantage you talk about is pretty much null, call it, with this discussion being pretty much pointless, imho.

[ClipperRevival]

Something of that nature has been around since forever, tbh... But the verticality rule, or whatever they call it, is brought up a lot nowadays (or even officially implemented?) because of the restricted area arc, which didn't exist back then... You had players not being able to do much at all when someone drove into the paint, mostly because of that restricted area; at least now you see more of nothing being called when the defender goes straight up, verticality rule serving its purpose due to it.

So, if you "take into account" the restricted area, that advantage you talk about is pretty much null, call it, with this discussion being pretty much pointless, imho.

I'm just talking strictly about the verticality rule when a defender jumps to challenge a shot near the rim. The restricted area has no bearing on whether a foul is called in that regard. It does when the defender is trying to take a charge but not once he leaves the ground.

For the defender to be allowed to jump straight up and not commit a foul as long as he stays vertical is a nice advantage to have. Yes, the verticality rule has existed for a long time but hasn't been really enforced since Hibbert popularized it. Now, it's common knowledge that a player can jump straight up and isn't committing a foul as long he stays vertical. In the past, it was hit or miss. Many times the defender being called for a foul due to the contact that is created, even though the offensive player might've initiated it.

[90sgoat]

Nope, as I clearly remember it and I think video will prove me right, refs in the past allowed body contact without calling it either way. This is the main difference, it was accepted that some body contact would happen in the paint going both ways.

[GIF REACTION]

Something of that nature has been around since forever, tbh... But the verticality rule, or whatever they call it, is brought up a lot nowadays (or even officially implemented?) because of the restricted area arc, which didn't exist back then... You had players not being able to do much at all when someone drove into the paint, mostly because of that restricted area; at least now you see more of nothing being called when the defender goes straight up, verticality rule serving its purpose due to it.

So, if you "take into account" the restricted area, that advantage you talk about is pretty much null, call it, with this discussion being pretty much pointless, imho.
Incorrect,

The 3 in the key rule is not a new rule. It was the only left over rule from the old illegal defense guidelines that were abolished in 2001. It was simply rebranded and given a new name.

[3ball]

Pointless conversation, like ShaqisGOAT said.

It's more remarkable that for defenders to remain inside the 16 x 19 foot painted area, they must stay "within armslength" of their man (about 3 feet).

"Armslength" is the strictest defense possible outside of having the defender stand shoulder-to-shoulder with his man or something ridiculous like that.. :oldlol: ... Yet this is the requirement governing the most important area of the floor - the paint.

[GIF REACTION]

Pointless conversation, like ShaqisGOAT said.

It's more remarkable that for defenders to remain inside the 16 x 19 foot painted area, they must stay "within armslength" of their man (about 3 feet).

"Armslength" is the strictest defense possible outside of having the defender stand shoulder-to-shoulder with his man or something ridiculous like that.. :oldlol: ... Yet this is the requirement governing the most important area of the floor - the paint.
Incorrect,

The 3 in the key rule is not a new rule. It was the only left over rule from the old illegal defense guidelines that were abolished in 2001. It was simply rebranded and given a new name.

[ClipperRevival]

Let's not turn this into a "my era was better than your era" discussion.

Again, I'm talking strictly about the verticality rule being enforced once a defender leaves the ground to contest a shot. It's now a 100% enforced rule. It wasn't as clear cut in the past. Even when the defender was vertical, they might've been called the foul because it was more of a subjective call until the league clarified it. That's all I'm saying.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Incorrect,

The 3 in the key rule is not a new rule. It was the only left over rule from the old illegal defense guidelines that were abolished in 2001. It was simply rebranded and given a new name.

1st of all, who talked about 3 in the key, child? Can you even read, nikka? Do you know what the restricted area arc is? Do you even know anything about basketball?

I'll even show it to you, using a nba 2k game picture, most likely the only basketball you've played...

http://www.sportingcharts.com/media/240276/restricted_area.jpg

See that semi-circle up there? That's what I'm talking about.

Plus, the 3 in the key ON DEFENSE is, relatively, a new thing...

[GIF REACTION]

No 3 in the key is not a new thing

It has been around ever since Illegal defense was implemented 30-50 years ago

[3ball]

No 3 in the key is not a new thing

It has been around ever since Illegal defense was implemented 30-50 years ago
The nba introduced a NEW defensive 3 seconds rule in 2005 - this rule requires defenders remaining inside the 16 x 19 foot painted area to stay "within armslength" of their man (about 3 feet).

"Armslength" is the strictest defense possible outside of having the defender stand shoulder-to-shoulder with his man or something ridiculous like that.. :oldlol: ... Yet this is the requirement governing the most important area of the floor - the paint.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Let's not turn this into a "my era was better than your era" discussion.

Again, I'm talking strictly about the verticality rule being enforced once a defender leaves the ground to contest a shot. It's now a 100% enforced rule. It wasn't as clear cut in the past. Even when the defender was vertical, they might've been called the foul because it was more of a subjective call until the league clarified it. That's all I'm saying.

I'm not turning it into anything.

Like I've said, it's a 100% enforced rule (your saying here) and brought up a whole lot nowadays because of the restricted area arc... I don't know if it was officially implemented now, even.

Where do you see it being enforced? Exactly...

They introduced the restricted area arc, not long ago, with the purpose of stopping defenders from taking a position under the basket in order to draw offensive fouls (another rule to "open up" the offense, call it) BUT then you saw too many fouls being called on the defender due to it, no matter what he did, when the offensive player got into that semi-circle it was mostly game over for the defense, you can say that mf'ers where cheesing the hell out of it... So they "introduced" that whole verticality thing, that's when you saw them bringing it up everywhere, saying that Hibbert popularized it and whatnot...

They had to, someway, balance out the "effects" of the restricted semi-circle, let's say. It's not a new thing, per se.

[SHAQisGOAT]

No 3 in the key is not a new thing

It has been around ever since Illegal defense was implemented 30-50 years ago

:biggums:

What's wrong with people nowadays?

Nikkas like to act dumb on purpose :facepalm What a sad existence, you must have an extremely pathetic life.

[bdreason]

This rule has always existed. They used to call a lot less fouls on challenges around the rim.

I do like that they are trying to let defenders actually challenge at the hoop again by placing an emphasis on the verticality rule.

[ClipperRevival]

This rule has always existed. They used to call a lot less fouls on challenges around the rim.

I do like that they are trying to let defenders actually challenge at the hoop again by placing an emphasis on the verticality rule.

Yup, that's pretty much my point. They are actually letting defenders challenge plays at the rim instead of giving the advantage to the offensive player anytime there is contact, even though it might've been initiated by the offensive player. And I think that's fair.

[ClipperRevival]

I'm not turning it into anything.

Like I've said, it's a 100% enforced rule (your saying here) and brought up a whole lot nowadays because of the restricted area arc... I don't know if it was officially implemented now, even.

Where do you see it being enforced? Exactly...

They introduced the restricted area arc, not long ago, with the purpose of stopping defenders from taking a position under the basket in order to draw offensive fouls (another rule to "open up" the offense, call it) BUT then you saw too many fouls being called on the defender due to it, no matter what he did, when the offensive player got into that semi-circle it was mostly game over for the defense, you can say that mf'ers where cheesing the hell out of it... So they "introduced" that whole verticality thing, that's when you saw them bringing it up everywhere, saying that Hibbert popularized it and whatnot...

They had to, someway, balance out the "effects" of the restricted semi-circle, let's say. It's not a new thing, per se.


It's a part of the game now. You can see it by just watching it. Defenders now know that as long as they go strictly vertical, even when there is contact, there is a high probability that the refs won't call anything. In the past, the refs simply didn't give the defender that much leeway when there was contact in the air, even if it might've been initiated by the offensive player.

[SHAQisGOAT]

In the past, the refs simply didn't give the defender that much leeway when there was contact in the air, even if it might've been initiated by the offensive player.

Yea, mostly when and due to the restricted area arc being implemented... That was my whole point, that's why they "brought along" that whole verticality thing, to balance it out, call it.



It's a part of the game now. You can see it by just watching it. Defenders now know that as long as they go strictly vertical, even when there is contact, there is a high probability that the refs won't call anything.

Never said the contrary.

[ClipperRevival]

Yea, mostly when and due to the restricted area arc being implemented... That was my whole point, that's why they "brought along" that whole verticality thing, to balance it out, call it.




Never said the contrary.

This might be a dumb question but can you expound on what you said above? I don't see how the restricted area has anything to do with the verticality rule given that once the defender leaves his feet to challenge a shot, it makes no difference whether he's right below the rim or 5 feet from it. The restricted area is for the enforcement of rules when players are on the floor (like charging or 3 seconds) but once they leave the floor to contest, the restricted area rule is irrelevant.

Am I missing something so obvious herer? Was there some rule back in the 70's or something regarding the verticality rule that dictated how players can challenge shots once they left the floor that differed from within and outside of the restricted area?

[SHAQisGOAT]

This might be a dumb question but can you expound on what you said above? I don't see how the restricted area has anything to do with the verticality rule given that once the defender leaves his feet to challenge a shot, it makes no difference whether he's right below the rim or 5 feet from it. The restricted area is for the enforcement of rules when players are on the floor (like charging or 3 seconds) but once they leave the floor to contest, the restricted area rule is irrelevant.

Am I missing something so obvious herer? Was there some rule back in the 70's or something regarding the verticality rule that dictated how players can challenge shots once they left the floor that differed from within and outside of the restricted area?

True but at some point the players were "exploiting it" like crazy, especially when you consider how easy(er) it got to drive to the basket without hand-checking, with better spacing and so on; the secondary defender couldn't even graze the offensive player inside the restricted area without being called for a foul, and such... So, the whole verticality thing balances it some, let's say. For example, the defender can try to jump out of the restricted area to contest the drive, and if does it while jumping straight up, he got some good chances of nothing being called.

There was no restricted area arc in the 70s, 80s...