Interesting quote from Bill Simmons book on the purpose of Illegal Defense

[GIF REACTION]

[QUOTE]The new wave of coaches made defenses sophisticated enough by 1981 that [B][COLOR="Red"]the league created an

[3ball]

I'm waiting for you don.


That's the amazing thing - as time goes on, our perception of things changes - the idea of what constituted an open lane in the 80's is far different from what we consider an open lane today.

This was considered an open lane in the 80's - this was considered good spacing - if any coach today employed this spacing, they would be summarily fired:

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/7-30-2015/jkrR_v.gif


Compare that to today's game - I don't even need to post gifs of today's game, and what constitutes an open lane in today's game... Just fire up youtube and watch the first possession of any game - bam - there you go - wide open paint and open lane and crazy spacing.

[3ball]

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Here's the previous era's idea of good spacing.. In today's game, if a coach employed this "spacing", they would be laughed out of the league:


http://i.imgur.com/0l1UUv8.gif

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/6-23-2015/CKpLH1.gif

http://i.imgur.com/eyhnnp8.gif

http://i.imgur.com/yjM3Sgo.gif


As the gifs above show, previous eras lacked weakside spacing - with no 3-point shooting in the 80's, there was no one spacing the weakside, so all 10 players were bunched up on the strongside and/or in the paint..

This contrasts with today's game, where weakside spacing is a primary aspect of every team's offense, which spreads defenders out over the ENTIRE court - strongside and weakside, as shown here (http://i61.tinypic.com/2z7mnvm.png)... With defenders spread out further, they must travel a further distance to help - it's not disputable - it's physics.

Also, the nba introduced a new defensive 3 seconds rule in 2005 - this rule requires defenders remaining inside the 16 x 19 foot painted area to stay "within armslength" of their man (about 3 feet).

"Armslength" is the strictest defense possible outside of having the defender stand shoulder-to-shoulder with his man or something ridiculous like that.. :oldlol: ... Yet this is the requirement governing the most important area of the floor - the paint.
.

[warriorfan]

op gets his basketball knowledge from Bill Simmons...

/endthread

[GIF REACTION]

An actual NBA referee's take on the situation, or some dude on a forum spamming gifs?

Hmmmm.

[sdot_thadon]

I'm waiting for you don.
Nice.
Bet it's pretty infuriating to spend months even years making a point only to have it obliterated with one paragraph. Congrats.

[DonDadda59]

I'm waiting for you don.

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/9-30-2015/hYgXen.gif

It's possible the lane was more open in the 80s-90s than it had been in the 60s-70s, but what's a definite fact is that the post '01 rule changes opened up the paint much more than it had been in the 80s-90s.


An actual NBA referee's take on the situation, or some dude on a forum spamming gifs?

Hmmmm.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-AI3ziV_rvTw/URf91ZhwIXI/AAAAAAAAJ94/2FUluEwt_Ls/s1600/herman-cain.gif


What particularly bothers Motta is that many teams try to get away with zone defenses now, content to only be penalized by a technical foul. "Our teams are zoning now. Rule or no rule. We're not allowed to use the word `zone' but it's a zone," Motta said.

-THE NBA HAS THIS RULE ABOUT ILLEGAL DEFENSE, BUT WHO CAN EXPLAIN IT, AND WILL IT EVER GO AWAY? A TWILIGHT ZONE (LA Daily News April 14, 1996 Scott Wolf)

It didn't take New Jersey coach Dave Wohl five minutes to analyze Albeck's milestone.

"The Bulls played well but they blatantly played illegal defense all night," said Wohl, whose team shot .400 from the floor, "and the officials did a horrible job calling it.

"I've got the films and I am sending them to the league office. I would like to play zone, too. If the refs can't see it something is wrong. They were basically playing a college zone, not switching and guarding certain areas." Despite a height disadvantage at every spot, the Bulls outrebounded New Jersey's front line 33-29 and put the game away when Orlando Woolridge came off the bench smoking.

-Bulls get Albeck No. 300 Chicago Sun Times, March 12, 1986 (Mark Vancil)

Jack McCloskey, Detroit general manager: "The other thing of interest to me is the advent of zone defenses in general. If the lack of recognition continues, they'll have to give the offenses more time to set up. I know the things we're doing ourselves, and what teams like New York and Los Angeles are doing, and I don't like it. We are playing a lot of illegal defenses, and the offenses don't have a chance to attack.

-CLEVELAND LOOKS GOOD FROM INSIDE, Boston Globe/Bob Ryan January 8, 1989

Of course, Don Nelson plays the best zones that are never called. His Warriors have Chris Mullin, Mitch Richmond and a defense that funnels everything in to Manute Bol when he's in the game. And Golden State outrebounded Utah by an average of 51-41 in the four games

-The Teams of the '90s Key Up for a Head Start Washington Post/David Aldridge April 27, 1989

Johnson applauded Riley's switch to a trapping defense in the second half after the Suns led 54-50 at halftime Friday night.

The Suns have been hampered by poor outside shooting throughout the series, and Phoenix coach Cotton Fitzsimmons has complained that the Lakers are playing an illegal zone defense.

Phoenix has shot 51, 42 and 46 percent in the first three games, compared with 60, 45 and 49 percent for Los Angeles.

Suns guard Jeff Hornacek said, "We've been an outside shooting team all year and we expect our outside shooting to take us through it. But when you're not hitting outside shots, their zone looks like it works a lot more."

-Lakers poised to whisk away Suns, Chicago Sun Times May 28, 1989

Both the Lakers and Pistons know what Los Angeles must do to compensate to make this series competitive once more. First, crash the boards. "Keeping them from second shots is probably the key to the series," said Pistons Coach Chuck Daly. Then, play more (don't tell anybody) zone defense, funneling the little Pistons guards to Abdul-Jabbar.

-Scott's Injury Has Mates Hamstrung, The Washington Post, June 8, 1989. Thomas Boswell

Despite the injuries, the Lakers were hardly playing like a desperate team. Instead, they were relying on the resurgent offense of Abdul-Jabbar and the explosive moves of James Worthy (26). Defensively, LA defied the bylaws of the NBA and stuck with a trapping zone defense to minimize Detroit's quickness.

-PISTONS ROLL TO 3-0 LEAD, Boston Globe Jackie McMullen, June 12, 1989

Sunday's final day of meetings likely will result in minor changes in interpretation of zone rules, with coaches and officials spending time on the court at the nearby College of the Desert.

During the NBA finals last June, Los Angeles Lakers coaches and players spoke about their understanding of "zone principles" that allowed them to trap teams without being called for a technical foul for playing a zone defense. Phoenix Suns Coach Cotton Fitzsimmons complained long and loud about officials not calling the zone, which frustrated guard Kevin Johnson.

-PROFESSIONAL BASKETBALL; Small Talk Is the Big Thing As NBA Meetings Wind Down, Washington Post, David Aldrige, September 17, 1989

Coach of the Year: Pat Riley, Lakers. Riley's psychological efforts never have been more needed. His team still is playing at an unbelievably high level, and someone other than the players has to keep their interests razor-sharp. And no team plays better zone defense (oops, can't say that) in the playoffs. Riley's made a cottage industry out of never being coach of the year. That should change.

-On the NBA's Best-of List: Barkley, Riley, Robinson, Seikaly, Washington Post David Aldridge, April 11, 1990

In a news conference Wednesday morning, a rare opportunity to pick the brain of a game official, [Earl]Strom shared some of his opinions on the state of NBA officiating.

On zone defenses: "The referees, to a man, would love to see it done away with. They don't like calling it zone defense because they do allow certain zones to be played. I think they're legislating against teams playing good team defenses, which I think is wrong."

-NOTEBOOK; Pistons' Dumars Delivers a Public Thank You, Washington Post, David Aldridge June 14, 1990

Pippen's ability to roam puts a spark into the Bulls' effective zone press that worked so well for the early 1970s Knicks teams that coach Phil Jackson played on. The zone press forces opponents in a preferred direction, and fans can expect the Bulls to continue picking their spots with the press for the rest of the season.

-Bulls put pride in defense, Chicago Sun Times, Dave Hoekstra, Feb 25, 1991

Magic dictated the slower pace at one end, and had the Lakers' defense sagging back in a barely disguised zone to keep Jordan and Pippen from penetrating. "We underestimated their defense," Grant said. "They sagged and we settled for jump shots."

-Single Hand Can't Top Team Magic, Washington Post, Michael Wilbon June 3, 1991

Watch the Utah Jazz walk the fine line between a legal and an illegal defense. See Mark Eaton dance - as well as a 7-foot-4, 300-pound man can dance - across the lane for 2.9 seconds, just avoiding the zone defense call.

There's John Stockton, not really guarding his man, but getting close to him just in time to escape the whistle. There are double-teams off the ball, which aren't supposed to be legal, but they are just for a fraction of a second, just time enough to throw an offense off stride.

The Jazz is all about Karl Malone running the floor as well as any big man alive, and Stockton finding the open man as well as any guard alive, and Jeff Malone shooting the jumper as pure as anyone in the game. But they're mainly about zone defense, which is supposed to be illegal in the NBA.

"We come as close as possible" to playing zone, Eaton acknowledges. "You have to have the ability to help and you have to be able to shut down the middle. And to be able to do that, you have to push it to the edge."

Coach Jerry Sloan, who spent a career knocking opposing guards upside the head in Chicago, says this isn't his ideal, only an appreciation of his personnel.
"I like to run as much as anyone else," he said. "When I was in college we used to score 100 points seven or eight times a year. But with Mark Eaton on the floor, we can't run fast. We can't give them 100 {points}, because we probably won't score more than that. That's who we are and that's who we've been for years."

How do they get away with it? It starts with Eaton, who camps out in the lane as long as possible, shaded toward his man, but gets out just before it's too late. Stockton lingers when the ball goes inside, not quite double-teaming, not quite going back to his man. Thus he's able to help in any direction - inside, against people cutting down the lane and against his own man.

"We know the rules," burly forward Mike Brown said. "We take advantage of the 2.9 seconds, going down and coming back. And usually, we don't get too many zone defense calls.

-NOTEBOOK; No Matter What They Call It, Jazz Dials Z for (Illegal) Zone, David Aldridge Washington Post, May 19, 1992

[juju151111]

An actual NBA referee's take on the situation, or some dude on a forum spamming gifs?

Hmmmm.
Julius Ervin averged more in 1980 then 81 and what does this change? They talk about double teams and thats exactly what happened to star players along with physical defense in the 80s 90s

[DonDadda59]

CONT'D:


Auerbach, incidentally, feels that the NBA should do something immediately to end some current tactics. "The games I am watching in the playoffs are too physical," he said. "There is too much clutching and grabbing and holding away from the ball that is not being called. What some of these teams are getting away with in the name of defense is outrageous. Two guys jump out to double up on one guy and the other three guys play in a zone behind them. That's illegal, but it is not being called. I know there is a feeling that if everything that is going on is going to be called, it would slow the game down, but I feel the other way. Call all the fouls. Send everyone to the line. It wouldn't take long to stop it. There is no reason for all this hitting and banging. Some of the picks they are setting are more than picks. They are meant to hurt guys, and that is not right."

-Ziegler buyout deal: it's bye and out as NHL leader, Boston Globe May 30, 1992, David McDonough

Specifically, the Bulls will have to do a better job of handling Seattle's pressure defense. They didn't do that in the first meeting, particularly when the Sonics employed half-court and full-court traps.

"They play a zone; they play a zone defense," Bulls coach Phil Jackson said.

"They shove you in the corner, they trap you at halfcourt, they run off and double team you."

Aren't zone defenses illegal in the NBA?

"It's a legal zone in the NBA," Jackson said.

-Bulls Relish Chance To Erase Bad Taste, John Jackson Chicago Sun Times, January 9, 1996

SALT LAKE CITY (AP) -- Everybody's picking on the Utah Jazz -- even the Jazz themselves.

Coach Jerry Sloan and three of his veterans criticized the team's bench players and youngsters Wednesday at the same time that Seattle SuperSonics coach George Karl was accusing Utah of employing illegal tactics.

"Utah plays the best zone in basketball. They play a 2-1-2 with five guys with a foot in the paint 90 percent of the time," Karl said in Seattle on the second of three consecutive off days in the Western Conference finals.

-HEY, IT'S GANG UP ON UTAH DAY, The Columbian Vancouver (AP), May 23, 1996

"Nate McMillan (a Sonics reserve guard) wants us to put in a 1-3-1 zone, and that might be the best defense against the Chicago Bulls," Karl said.

"Playing Chicago man-to-man is going to be awful scary. I believe Michael (Jordan) is going to be much like Hakeem (Olajuwon). So, we're going to go back to playing the way we like to play - and that's double-teamming.

"In this series, we didn't double-team much. I think we've got to play more Sonic basketball. So, I think we're going to be trapping him a lot."

-Karl Looking to Be in a Zone vs. Bulls, Chicago Sun Times, Lacy Banks, June 3, 1996

Karl said he will do a lot of double-teaming and triple-teaming, if necessary, to stop Jordan. He even threatened to try an illegal 1-3-1 zone suggested by McMillan.

"We're going to give him many looks," Karl said.

And one of those looks eventually will have to be Payton.

"You've got to do a lot of different things against him," Payton said. "You can't just keep one person on him because once he gets on a groove, . . . he'll start going off.

"So you switch him up. You put somebody bigger on him. You put somebody quicker on him. You put somebody with great hands on him. You do a lot of things. You can't just let him have one look because he will get a rhythm to you, start to know the person and wear you down.

-Running From Cover // Top Defender Payton Won't Be Matched Up Against Jordan, Lacey J. Banks, June, 4 1996

Check and Mate. Vaya Con Dios.

[GIF REACTION]

Don't make me bring out the big guns don

[DonDadda59]

Don't make me bring out the big guns don

:roll:

Proceed, suh. I could use a good laugh you snitch. Don't let your little cheering squad down now.

[Levity]

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Here's the previous era's idea of good spacing.. In today's game, if a coach employed this "spacing", they would be laughed out of the league:


damn. just waiting for someone to take your queue and laugh byron scott out of the league

[GIF REACTION]

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3016/3033852192_2da080cbc1.jpg



These rule changes, though nearly unanimously adopted by the league, are not meeting with unanimous agreement among league followers, especially the elimination of the illegal defense rules. Players who have made their living beating defenders off one-on-one sets are particularly fearful that their impact will be reduced with zones allowed. With no increase in the shot clock, there is fear that offenses will be forced into a lot of rushed shots at the end of the clock. - Dean Oliver


Before this rule change was even put in place, there were those around the association expressing their concerns. Steve Smith, a guard with Portland at the time, said, “You put in zone, you take away stars.” “I think it’s a huge mistake,” Pat Riley said. “There’s not going to be anybody able to drive. With these rules, you’re going to be back to the 70s in scoring … Fans like to see Vince Carter play one-on-one outside. That stuff is going to be history. Isolation basketball has been part of the game ever since I’ve been in it.” Rudy Tomjanovich said, “It would change the sport. We should create a situation where great players get a chance to excel. Zones neutralize athletic ability. People want to see guys who can soar to the basket … People will be coming up with all kinds of crazy defenses.”


Now, when you beat that first line of defense, you’ve got four dudes very often sitting, waiting for you on ball-side … You might have three, four, even five defenders on that ball-side box. That wasn’t the case when Jordan played … You couldn’t go anywhere near a ball-side box back then. There were great teams like Chuck Daly’s Pistons and Pat Riley’s Lakers that devised “zone,” so to speak, to kind of flood the ball more, but it was nothing, Henry [Abbott of ESPN], like it is today. The teeth of the defense today is much sharper, and there’s many more teeth then there was back when Jordan played, so I understand a little bit of what he’s saying, but I think ultimately, he’s completely wrong. - David Thorpe


In short: If defenses pack the lane to take away an offense’s first option, that offense better be creative enough to adjust. “Getting to the hole is getting harder and harder,” says Chicago’s Carlos Boozer, who should know, considering the identity of his coach.

“A lot of the defensive strategies you see now are a natural evolution from rule changes,” says Houston GM Daryl Morey, in reference to the league’s decision a decade ago to abandon illegal defense rules and essentially allow zone defenses. “First the defense evolved by overloading the strong side, and now the offenses are evolving to beat that.”

The Heat are the most obvious example of a team that has torn down and rebuilt its entire offense over 18 months to counter defenses committed to clogging the lane, sending an extra defender toward the ball, and forcing offenses into second, third, and fourth options. It’s no coincidence Miami plays in the same conference as Boston and Chicago — the two teams most associated, via Tom Thibodeau, with that strangling defense. Thibodeau didn’t invent this system, and he’s loath to take any public credit for it, but coaches, scouts, and executives all over the league agree he was the first coach to stretch the limits of the NBA’s newish defensive three-second rule and flood the strong side with hybrid man/zone defenses. “Teams that just play on one side of the floor are going to struggle against defenses that load up on that side,” says a Houston assistant. “The league has gotten so different today. You just have to move the ball from one side to the other against the really good defensive teams,” says Jim Boylan. “Predictable offenses just aren’t good enough anymore against elite competition,” says Lowe. - Zach Lowe


First off, you’ll probably notice that Bill Laimbeer deters Jordan from finishing around the rim about as well as my office’s “no Youtube” policy keeps me from watching KBlaze mixtapes on slow afternoons. But besides Laimbeer’s awful individual effort, there are a number of instances in which the Pistons, as a team, wait for Jordan to make his move before taking action to stop him from scoring. Also, the on-ball defender seems to have no plan for where to push Jordan. Often Dumars et al play him straight, and [lets] Jordan decide where he wants to go. …

Even a cursory examination of these two tapes will prove that the Celtics’ intricate strategy is far superior to the Pistons’ organized thuggery. In the first minutes of the clip above, the Celtics are called for two defensive three-second violations because they are preemptively over-rotating to fill the spaces LeBron would like to use. Bron still managed to have an excellent game, but you can see the foundation of how the Celtics were able to force him out of simply exploding past his defender to the basket.

Although ‘89 Jordan may be able to escape his first defender more easily in today’s game [due to his thoughts on hand-checking], good defensive teams would employ more aggressive and nuanced schemes to keep him from the hoop. Ultimately, it’s these second and third lines of defense that matter most. Ray Allen and Paul Pierce are still average defenders at best, but they can apply heavy pressure to quicker offensive players far away from the hoop because the Boston Big Men are ready to aggressively rotate. Modern defenses force wing scorers like LeBron, Kobe, and Wade to analyze layers of team defense in a way Jordan didn’t. Add that to the advances in statistics and scouting, and NBA defenses know more than ever about a scorer’s preferences and habits.

The numbers and video don’t lie. Jordan would have to ball futuristic just to maintain his 1989 scoring levels against the evolved, more sophisticated defenses and slower offensive pace of today’s NBA. - Beckley Mason


I did some rough-and-ready research and found that teams whose top players play a ton of minutes don’t win NBA titles, not anymore. They used to, but not in recent years. The best theory I heard to explain that came from David Thorpe, who laid the blame on that hustling, switching team defense. Once upon a time, lots of teams preferred an isolation offense, which meant one player dribbling alone against one defender, while as many as eight guys caught breathers. On many NBA plays these days, nobody stands around. It’s common to see 10 guys flying all over the court. This is not your daddy’s NBA. It’s great for fans and team play, but it’s much tougher for the players: a minute of play, the theory goes, is now much more work than it used to be, and one result is that more rest is required. - Henry Abbott

Be I an angel? Nae. I am but MAN.
http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/halofanon/images/4/48/TenaciousD.gif

SLAYED demon.

[SHAQisGOAT]

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/9-30-2015/hYgXen.gif

It's possible the lane was more open in the 80s-90s than it had been in the 60s-70s, but what's a definite fact is that the post '01 rule changes opened up the paint much more than it had been in the 80s-90s.



http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-AI3ziV_rvTw/URf91ZhwIXI/AAAAAAAAJ94/2FUluEwt_Ls/s1600/herman-cain.gif


What particularly bothers Motta is that many teams try to get away with zone defenses now, content to only be penalized by a technical foul. "Our teams are zoning now. Rule or no rule. We're not allowed to use the word `zone' but it's a zone," Motta said.

-THE NBA HAS THIS RULE ABOUT ILLEGAL DEFENSE, BUT WHO CAN EXPLAIN IT, AND WILL IT EVER GO AWAY? A TWILIGHT ZONE (LA Daily News April 14, 1996 Scott Wolf)

It didn't take New Jersey coach Dave Wohl five minutes to analyze Albeck's milestone.

"The Bulls played well but they blatantly played illegal defense all night," said Wohl, whose team shot .400 from the floor, "and the officials did a horrible job calling it.

"I've got the films and I am sending them to the league office. I would like to play zone, too. If the refs can't see it something is wrong. They were basically playing a college zone, not switching and guarding certain areas." Despite a height disadvantage at every spot, the Bulls outrebounded New Jersey's front line 33-29 and put the game away when Orlando Woolridge came off the bench smoking.

-Bulls get Albeck No. 300 Chicago Sun Times, March 12, 1986 (Mark Vancil)

Jack McCloskey, Detroit general manager: "The other thing of interest to me is the advent of zone defenses in general. If the lack of recognition continues, they'll have to give the offenses more time to set up. I know the things we're doing ourselves, and what teams like New York and Los Angeles are doing, and I don't like it. We are playing a lot of illegal defenses, and the offenses don't have a chance to attack.

-CLEVELAND LOOKS GOOD FROM INSIDE, Boston Globe/Bob Ryan January 8, 1989

Of course, Don Nelson plays the best zones that are never called. His Warriors have Chris Mullin, Mitch Richmond and a defense that funnels everything in to Manute Bol when he's in the game. And Golden State outrebounded Utah by an average of 51-41 in the four games

-The Teams of the '90s Key Up for a Head Start Washington Post/David Aldridge April 27, 1989

Johnson applauded Riley's switch to a trapping defense in the second half after the Suns led 54-50 at halftime Friday night.

The Suns have been hampered by poor outside shooting throughout the series, and Phoenix coach Cotton Fitzsimmons has complained that the Lakers are playing an illegal zone defense.

Phoenix has shot 51, 42 and 46 percent in the first three games, compared with 60, 45 and 49 percent for Los Angeles.

Suns guard Jeff Hornacek said, "We've been an outside shooting team all year and we expect our outside shooting to take us through it. But when you're not hitting outside shots, their zone looks like it works a lot more."

-Lakers poised to whisk away Suns, Chicago Sun Times May 28, 1989

Both the Lakers and Pistons know what Los Angeles must do to compensate to make this series competitive once more. First, crash the boards. "Keeping them from second shots is probably the key to the series," said Pistons Coach Chuck Daly. Then, play more (don't tell anybody) zone defense, funneling the little Pistons guards to Abdul-Jabbar.

-Scott's Injury Has Mates Hamstrung, The Washington Post, June 8, 1989. Thomas Boswell

Despite the injuries, the Lakers were hardly playing like a desperate team. Instead, they were relying on the resurgent offense of Abdul-Jabbar and the explosive moves of James Worthy (26). Defensively, LA defied the bylaws of the NBA and stuck with a trapping zone defense to minimize Detroit's quickness.

-PISTONS ROLL TO 3-0 LEAD, Boston Globe Jackie McMullen, June 12, 1989

Sunday's final day of meetings likely will result in minor changes in interpretation of zone rules, with coaches and officials spending time on the court at the nearby College of the Desert.

During the NBA finals last June, Los Angeles Lakers coaches and players spoke about their understanding of "zone principles" that allowed them to trap teams without being called for a technical foul for playing a zone defense. Phoenix Suns Coach Cotton Fitzsimmons complained long and loud about officials not calling the zone, which frustrated guard Kevin Johnson.

-PROFESSIONAL BASKETBALL; Small Talk Is the Big Thing As NBA Meetings Wind Down, Washington Post, David Aldrige, September 17, 1989

Coach of the Year: Pat Riley, Lakers. Riley's psychological efforts never have been more needed. His team still is playing at an unbelievably high level, and someone other than the players has to keep their interests razor-sharp. And no team plays better zone defense (oops, can't say that) in the playoffs. Riley's made a cottage industry out of never being coach of the year. That should change.

-On the NBA's Best-of List: Barkley, Riley, Robinson, Seikaly, Washington Post David Aldridge, April 11, 1990

In a news conference Wednesday morning, a rare opportunity to pick the brain of a game official, [Earl]Strom shared some of his opinions on the state of NBA officiating.

On zone defenses: "The referees, to a man, would love to see it done away with. They don't like calling it zone defense because they do allow certain zones to be played. I think they're legislating against teams playing good team defenses, which I think is wrong."

-NOTEBOOK; Pistons' Dumars Delivers a Public Thank You, Washington Post, David Aldridge June 14, 1990

Pippen's ability to roam puts a spark into the Bulls' effective zone press that worked so well for the early 1970s Knicks teams that coach Phil Jackson played on. The zone press forces opponents in a preferred direction, and fans can expect the Bulls to continue picking their spots with the press for the rest of the season.

-Bulls put pride in defense, Chicago Sun Times, Dave Hoekstra, Feb 25, 1991

Magic dictated the slower pace at one end, and had the Lakers' defense sagging back in a barely disguised zone to keep Jordan and Pippen from penetrating. "We underestimated their defense," Grant said. "They sagged and we settled for jump shots."

-Single Hand Can't Top Team Magic, Washington Post, Michael Wilbon June 3, 1991

Watch the Utah Jazz walk the fine line between a legal and an illegal defense. See Mark Eaton dance - as well as a 7-foot-4, 300-pound man can dance - across the lane for 2.9 seconds, just avoiding the zone defense call.

There's John Stockton, not really guarding his man, but getting close to him just in time to escape the whistle. There are double-teams off the ball, which aren't supposed to be legal, but they are just for a fraction of a second, just time enough to throw an offense off stride.

The Jazz is all about Karl Malone running the floor as well as any big man alive, and Stockton finding the open man as well as any guard alive, and Jeff Malone shooting the jumper as pure as anyone in the game. But they're mainly about zone defense, which is supposed to be illegal in the NBA.

"We come as close as possible" to playing zone, Eaton acknowledges. "You have to have the ability to help and you have to be able to shut down the middle. And to be able to do that, you have to push it to the edge."

Coach Jerry Sloan, who spent a career knocking opposing guards upside the head in Chicago, says this isn't his ideal, only an appreciation of his personnel.
"I like to run as much as anyone else," he said. "When I was in college we used to score 100 points seven or eight times a year. But with Mark Eaton on the floor, we can't run fast. We can't give them 100 {points}, because we probably won't score more than that. That's who we are and that's who we've been for years."

How do they get away with it? It starts with Eaton, who camps out in the lane as long as possible, shaded toward his man, but gets out just before it's too late. Stockton lingers when the ball goes inside, not quite double-teaming, not quite going back to his man. Thus he's able to help in any direction - inside, against people cutting down the lane and against his own man.

"We know the rules," burly forward Mike Brown said. "We take advantage of the 2.9 seconds, going down and coming back. And usually, we don't get too many zone defense calls.

-NOTEBOOK; No Matter What They Call It, Jazz Dials Z for (Illegal) Zone, David Aldridge Washington Post, May 19, 1992


:applause:

Killing those fools since god knows when...

[warriorfan]

[quote="GIF REACTION"]"Now, when you beat that first line of defense, you

[DonDadda59]

Be I an angel? Nae. I am but MAN.
http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/halofanon/images/4/48/TenaciousD.gif

SLAYED demon.

This is what you hyped up? :facepalm

I already addressed this garbage in many of your recycled past threads. All the fear that some players/coaches had turned out to be unfounded because the rule changes were EXPLICITLY made to make scoring, particularly perimeter scoring, easier. And that's exactly what happened.

Check the $tats- from '01-'14, the league as a whole is scoring more (95 PPG to 101 PPG) on higher percentages on similar paces. And players who came up during the 'illegal defense' era saw their individual scoring sky rocket once the NBA completely eliminated handchecking.

So all the doomsday prophecies were proven to be ridiculous and unfounded by what actually happened in reality.

And just to address Beckley Mason (who? :lol):

[B]"Jordan would have to ball futuristic just to maintain his 1989 scoring levels against the evolved, more sophisticated defenses and slower offensive pace of today

[GIF REACTION]

Defenses are SUPERIOR today

The numbers don't really show it, because Offenses as well, are SUPERIOR today

All the top basketball analysts/minds, from Zach Lowe to Henry Abbott to David Thorpe agree with me

[warriorfan]

Defenses are SUPERIOR today

The numbers don't really show it, because Offenses as well, are SUPERIOR today

All the top basketball analysts/minds, from Zach Lowe to Henry Abbott to David Thorpe agree with me

The rule changes made it easier to score.

[GIF REACTION]

How?

[DonDadda59]

Defenses are SUPERIOR today

The numbers don't really show it, because Offenses as well, are SUPERIOR today

All the top basketball analysts/minds, from Zach Lowe to Henry Abbott to David Thorpe agree with me

So as soon as the NBA EXPLICITLY makes rule changes to make scoring easier, open up the game, free up perimeter players... team and individual scoring rises across the board even though pace remained the same... But defense is better, but we can't tell because offenses are better.

Story checks out.













































































































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[GIF REACTION]

That never happened though lol

[DonDadda59]

That never happened though lol

What didn't you mark ass trick? :confusedshrug:

[GIF REACTION]

The aforementioned abolition of the

[3ball]

Prior to the 2005 season, the NBA now started to attempt to curtail hand-checking and call defensive three-seconds.

These were put in place to “open up the game,” but did they work?



Hell yeah they worked - league-wide ORtg went from the 102.1 - 105.0 range that was from 1998-2004, and increased to the 106 - 108 range from 2005 to the present, which is the same level it had been in the 80's.

From just 2004 to 2005, the first year the rules to "open up the game" were introduced, league-wide ORtg instantly increased from 102.9 to 106.1, which is the largest increase since the inception of the 3-point line in 1980.

[GIF REACTION]

Offensive rating increased because offensive tactics got better.

This is clearly a no brainer lads

After the 2001 illegal defense removal, defenses got better and better and it took offenses awhile to catch up

[DonDadda59]

Jesus, now you've taken to posting misguided opinion pieces by nameless bloggers (http://therdsports.com/2013/06/19/the-mythic-1990s/)? SomeActionJackson? :roll:

Bottom line- NBA teams were scoring 95 PPG in 2001, by 2014 it was 101 PPG on higher %s across the board. eFG% has been at record levels since 2010. Perimeter players with limited skills are among league leaders in PPG.

I dare you to show me another decade stretch in NBA History where scoring WENT UP league wide. The trend since the merger had been lower paces, lower scoring as years went by. All of a sudden that trend is reversed following the rule changes of the early to mid 00s and teams/players are scoring more on similar paces... but defense improved?

C'mon son.


Offensive rating increased because offensive tactics got better.

This is clearly a no brainer lads

After the 2001 illegal defense removal, defenses got better and better and it took offenses awhile to catch up

So which is it- did defenses improve or did offenses get better?

Your theory seems to be that both occurred... meaning that offenses have surpassed defenses since numbers across the board are higher than they were pre rule changes.

But please, keep digging.

[GIF REACTION]

Limited skills?

We have never seen an era of basketball with so many players that can shoot, pass, rebound all in one as well as they do now

[warriorfan]

http://s3.postimg.org/oiz16u1kz/Snitch_Reaction.jpg

[DonDadda59]

Limited skills?

We have never seen an era of basketball with so many players that can shoot, pass, rebound all in one as well as they do now

Bullshit. The only innovation that has come along since the pre rule changes era is 7 footers chucking 3s. Pre-injury Grant Hill was a far more skilled version of LeBron but he never came close to winning a scoring title in the 90s. If he was drafted today, he would tear this soft league to shreds. And this isn't hyperbole, we saw it happen- guys like Kobe and Iverson who were drafted in the mid 90s, whose scoring skyrocketed a decade later following the rule changes.

But I guess their offensive ability improved to counter the advanced defense like everyone else/every team in the league. :roll:


http://s3.postimg.org/oiz16u1kz/Snitch_Reaction.jpg

:yaohappy:

[GIF REACTION]

Wrap this one up for another win in my books

Chalk this one up for another W in the column

Illegal defense era basketball was low quality. Defenses were poor, limited by the Illegal defense guidelines, the best only the brightest coaches could come up with were phantom/beta lite zones that pale into comparison with today's ones. Classic example is Seattle in 96'... We saw how Jordan responded to that sort of defense... Imagine the full force... Oh wait we did see it.... Some pretty inefficient seasons in Washington

The defense just got so good so fast, that offenses HAD to evolve. HAD to get better. Simpleton 90's style gameplans wouldn't work no more. You've seen the pinnacle of this with The GSW in 2015. A modern marvel of tactical excellence.

[DonDadda59]

Wrap this one up for another win in my books

Chalk this one up for another W in the column

Illegal defense era basketball was low quality. Defenses were poor, limited by the Illegal defense guidelines, the best only the brightest coaches could come up with were phantom/beta lite zones that pale into comparison with today's ones. Classic example is Seattle in 96'... We saw how Jordan responded to that sort of defense... Imagine the full force... Oh wait we did see it.... Some pretty inefficient seasons in Washington

The defense just got so good so fast, that offenses HAD to evolve. HAD to get better. Simpleton 90's style gameplans wouldn't work no more. You've seen the pinnacle of this with The GSW in 2015. A modern marvel of tactical excellence.

:applause:

Look at how advanced the offense and defense was in the 2015 Finals (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OR7oP6NmfHQ)

No wonder LeBron was only able to shoot 30% FG against the 6'6" 215 lbs Andre Iguodala... My mistake the 6'6" 215 lbs Finals MVP Andre Iguodala.

Mind boggling how advanced everything is.











































































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[GIF REACTION]

:applause:

Look at how advanced the offense and defense was in the 2015 Finals (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OR7oP6NmfHQ)

No wonder LeBron was only able to shoot 30% FG against the 6'6" 215 lbs Andre Iguodala... My mistake the 6'6" 215 lbs Finals MVP Andre Iguodala.

Mind boggling how advanced everything is.



http://www.blogcdn.com/www.mandatory.com/media/2013/02/michael-jordan-laughing.gif

How many minutes did Iggy play all of last season and how many did Lebron?

Exactly

He was dog tired

Still managed to put up one of the best performances ever

[3ball]

The defense just got so good so fast



Even YOU don't believe that the largest-ever, one-season decline in league-wide ORtg was due to defenses getting better instantaneously in 2005, as opposed to sweeping new rules instituted that same season designed specifically to increase offense.

[Hey Yo]

:applause:

Look at how advanced the offense and defense was in the 2015 Finals (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OR7oP6NmfHQ)

No wonder LeBron was only able to shoot 30% FG against the 6'6" 215 lbs Andre Iguodala... My mistake the 6'6" 215 lbs Finals MVP Andre Iguodala.

Mind boggling how advanced everything is
A lot of those were good looks. It was more about the shots not falling than it was about Iggy's D.

[Beastmode88]

Defenses are SUPERIOR today

http://www.businessinsider.com/lebron-james-playing-bad-defense-2015-1

[Indian guy]

One thing I absolutely hate is the myth about hand-checking. People act like everything changed with 2005, when the change occurred a good decade before that. And the NBA kept passing more and more rules till 2001 to further eradicate any physicality, particularly on the perimeter. All the 2005 rules did is just reinforce the already-in-place rules more strictly. That's all. But really, go watch any game from 1995-2004, NOBODY's putting their hands on defenders. If they are, they are instantly whistled for a foul. Yet I constantly see fans refer to anything pre-2005 as the "hand-check" era, when it's complete BS. It was just as easy to drive past your defender in '97 or 2001 as it is today. I watch old Bulls games all the time and honestly, MJ was driving past his man with more ease from 96-98 than he ever did before that.

http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_history.html


1994-95

• Hand-checking eliminated from the end line in the backcourt to the opposite foul line.

1997-98
• A defender will not be permitted to use his forearm to impede the progress of an offensive player who is facing the basket in the frontcourt.

1999-00
• In the backcourt, there is no contact with hands and forearms by defenders. In the frontcourt, there is no contact with hands and forearms by defenders except below the free throw line extended in which case the defender may only use his forearm.

2000-01
No contact with either hands or forearms by defenders except in the frontcourt below the free throw line extended in which case the defender may use his forearm only.

• Defender may not use his forearm, shoulder, hip or hand to reroute or hold-up an offensive player going from point A to Point B or one who is attempting to come around a legal screen set by another offensive player.

2004-05
• New rules were introduced to curtail hand-checking, clarify blocking fouls and call defensive three seconds to open up the game.

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http://www.businessinsider.com/lebron-james-playing-bad-defense-2015-1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FS6uFOTZCX0

[3ball]

One thing I absolutely hate is the myth about hand-checking.



A myth??... The NBA has officially stated that the rule changes worked as planned to increase penetration.. These statements are from the creator and implementer of the new rules, so this is not subjective opinion, similar to how Bill Gates vision for Microsoft was never considered "subjective opinion" - your opinion does not trump this:

http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/04/09/stujackson/index.html


NBA.COM: Since the hand-checking rule was interpreted differently beginning in the 2004-05 season, the game has opened up. Players are penetrating and the floor is spread. As a result, scoring has risen every season. Was this anticipated back in 2004?

NBA: Our objective was to allow for more offensive freedom by not allowing defenders to hand-, forearm- or body-check ball handlers. By doing so, we encouraged more dribble penetration. As players penetrated more, it produced higher quality shots for the ball handler as well as shots for teammates on passes back out to perimeter. When NBA players get higher quality shots -- having more time to shoot -- they tend to make more of them.


NBA.COM: Shooting percentages have risen since 2004-05 regardless of location -- at-the-rim shots, short- and deep-mid range and 3-pointers. Does this surprise you, especially the higher percentages from 3-point range?

NBA: It doesn't. With the rule and interpretation changes, it has become more difficult for defenders to defend penetration, cover the entire floor on defensive rotations and recover to shooters. With more dribble penetration, ball handlers are getting more opportunities at the rim.


NBA.COM: From an Xs and Os perspective, how have coaches adjusted to a more wide-open game? What have they done differently?

NBA: Coaches have utilized more space on the floor so to create more room for dribble penetration, two-man pick-and-roll basketball and dribble exchanges on the perimeter.


NBA.COM: When you watch the game today, does it closely resemble an international game or are there still distinct differences in the style of play?

NBA: Our game does more closely resemble an international game in terms of the style of play than it used to. However, there are distinct differences in the international game vs. the NBA game. The international game utilizes a pure zone defense (as opposed to the defensive three-second rule), which allows frontcourt players to stand in the middle of the lane and discourage cutting, passing and dribble penetration.


There it is in black and white (and red).. :confusedshrug:... So, not a myth.. Reality

[DonDadda59]

How many minutes did Iggy play all of last season and how many did Lebron?

Exactly

He was dog tired

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/LeBron-James-Smallest-Violin-Gif.gif


Still managed to put up one of the best performances ever

Right...

[INDENT]Andre Iguodala made his biggest impact in the NBA Finals serving as LeBron James

[jstern]

It's not a secret that rules were changed to make it a bit easier in that era. It's also not a secret that they were changed even further in the 2000s.

[DonDadda59]

One thing I absolutely hate is the myth about hand-checking. People act like everything changed with 2005, when the change occurred a good decade before that. And the NBA kept passing more and more rules till 2001 to further eradicate any physicality, particularly on the perimeter. All the 2005 rules did is just reinforce the already-in-place rules more strictly. That's all. But really, go watch any game from 1995-2004, NOBODY's putting their hands on defenders. If they are, they are instantly whistled for a foul. Yet I constantly see fans refer to anything pre-2005 as the "hand-check" era, when it's complete BS. It was just as easy to drive past your defender in '97 or 2001 as it is today. I watch old Bulls games all the time and honestly, MJ was driving past his man with more ease from 96-98 than he ever did before that.

http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_history.html

Yes you are correct in that the NBA started the process of opening up the game for perimeter players in the mid 90s when Michael Jordan was retired (which really when boiled down is all the NBA was trying to do with all the rule changes- artificially manufacture more Michael Jordans). The rule change in '95 helped to usher in the rise in 3 point shooting (coupled with the temporary shortening of the line). Before that rule change, teams like the Bulls and the Knicks used to run full court presses and handcheck ball handlers, bringing the game to a screeching halt and preventing guys from getting shots off on the perimeter without having to run through multiple screens ala Reggie Miller.

You had stuff like this going down:

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/3-27-2015/d7ZkI6.gif

And once they outlawed that, there was immediate increase in 3 PA/gm which has continued till today. But handchecking was still allowed in the half court until 2005.

But of course, like all the similar rule changes... they were made to make scoring harder for perimeter players.













:roll: :roll: :roll:

[Hey Yo]

6 straight games of shots not falling. 30% shooting against a man you have 2" and 40-50 lbs on. Being played in isolation, 1 on 1, clear out defense (the super advanced kind though :lol ).

How great is our LeGawd?
Well, James' barely avg. 7pts per game from the FTL for the series so his shot must have been falling to avg. 29ppg (minus the FT points)

:confusedshrug:

[dubeta]

DonDadda getting his shit pushed in :lol


Not looking good


:yaohappy:

[DonDadda59]

DonDadda getting his shit pushed in :lol


Not looking good


:yaohappy:

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view/30003/stevie-wonder-o.gif

I give your work here 2 out of 6 stars.

[GIF REACTION]

When it comes down to it, I've said it before I'll say it again

80's and 90's individual stats are inflated

[3ball]

When it comes down to it, I've said it before I'll say it again

80's and 90's individual stats are inflated


Why is that?... It's not pace, because pace during MJ's 2nd three-peat was the slowest the league has ever played and pace during the PLAYOFFS in the late 80's and throughout the 90's was slower than today's pace.

And it's not defensive rules - not only is today's defense hand-off and there's no spacing, but the new defensive 3 seconds rule doesn't allow defenders to remain in the 16 x 19 foot painted area unless they are "within armslength" of their man (about 3 feet).

"Armslength" is the strictest defense possible outside of having the defender stand shoulder-to-shoulder with his man or something ridiculous like that.. Yet this is the requirement governing the most important area of the floor - the paint.

So if it isn't pace or defense, why are stats from previous eras inflated?

[DonDadda59]

I'm waiting for you don.

In the future, keep my name out your mouth. For your sake.

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