#1 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops - 2015 Edition

[kennethgriffin]

http://usercontent1.hubimg.com/7497464_f520.jpg


2015 Edition of the Top 10 Greatest NBA Players of All-Time


only people with 5,000+ posts may cast a vote

only one vote per person

first to 20 votes wins

Michael Jordan - 9
riseagainst
Kennethgriffin
Bless Mathews
Dragonyeuw
Uncle Drew
AlphaWolf24
warriorfan
Doranku
DaSeba5
stalkerforlife

Kobe bryant - 1
ArbitraryWater

Larry Bird - 1
ralph_i_el

Bill Russell - 1
G-train

Lebron James - 2
dubeta
Cocaine80s

Eddie Jones - 1
BasedTom

Chris Duhon - 1
HOoopCityJones

Austin Rivers - 1
24-Inch_Chrome

[r15mohd]

only posters with 5000+ posts...so a handful of knowledgeable people and plethora of trolls like yourself. :kobe: :whatever: :crazysam: :durantunimpressed: :milton :cletus:

[riseagainst]

I vote Michael Jordan.

[kennethgriffin]

only posters with 5000+ posts...so a handful of knowledgeable people and plethora of trolls like yourself. :kobe: :whatever: :crazysam: :durantunimpressed: :milton :cletus:


5000 isnt even that many

its to avoid alt accounts

[ISHGoat]

Kobe Bryant

[GIF REACTION]

Kobald Rapeynt

[ClipperRevival]

Obviously it's Kobe Bryant.

[r15mohd]

5000 isnt even that many

its to avoid alt accounts

it's plentiful...there are alt accounts on here that have racked up 5000+ posts in a matter of months.

you keep making these polls because you're just dissatisfied with the results time and time again, that in itself is pretty telling of who is placed where on the top 10.

[WayOfWade]

Well this sucks

[kennethgriffin]

notice the 3 r*tarded alt spamming trolls with less than 5000 posts all made votes to try and ruin everything


see... this is why theyre not invited to participate



i vote michael jordan btw

[WayOfWade]

Still though, I vote for Kobe

[Bless Mathews]

Jordan

Easy.

[kennethgriffin]

it's plentiful...there are alt accounts on here that have racked up 5000+ posts in a matter of months.

you keep making these polls because you're just dissatisfied with the results time and time again, that in itself is pretty telling of who is placed where on the top 10.



quick. now sign into your alt and agree with yourself

maybe if you focussed on only one account youd have 5000 by now

[GIF REACTION]

Somebody make a serious one

Where everyone can vote

[kennethgriffin]

Somebody make a serious one

Where everyone can vote


youre not needed... go troll somewhere else

[Fallen Angel]

Of course ISB and all his alts post at the same time

at least don't make it so obvious

[dubeta]

LeBron

[Dragonyeuw]

Jordan

[SsKSpurs21]

colby brian

[riseagainst]

Of course ISB and all his alts post at the same time

at least don't make it so obvious


:lol

[Uncle Drew]

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

[AlphaWolf24]

#1 anything is always subjective....

Breakin it down Barney style using skill + accolades ( How 99% of the sports fanbase judge athletes)

1rst GOAT = MJ23
2nd GOAT = KB824


yup.....that's how it is.

[kennethgriffin]

This pretty much sums up ISH in a nutshell


I'd be surprised if we even had 20 people with 5000 posts

[feyki]

Jordan,Kobe,Lebron easily. They are shares the goat and other legends so far away from thhem .

[raprap]

Kobe Bryant.

[ShaqTwizzle]

I vote for Kenneth.
2nd choice Jordan.

[ArbitraryWater]

We did one last year and that didnt work well...

Stop voting you ****s..

Actually, Kobe

[kennethgriffin]

We did one last year and that didnt work well...

Stop voting you ****s..

Actually, Kobe


Morons on ish dont count anything thats more than a year old


They think lebrons newest finals loss put him above kobe and duncan

[ralph_i_el]

Larry Bird

[warriorfan]

2015 Edition of the Top 10 Greatest NBA Players of All-Time


only people with 5,000+ posts may cast a vote

only one vote per person

first to 20 votes wins

http://usercontent1.hubimg.com/7497464_f520.jpg


Michael Jordan - 4
Kareem abdul jabbar - 1
Kobe bryant - 1
Lebron James - 1 ( dubetas contribution )

Michael Jordan

[kennethgriffin]

http://i58.tinypic.com/28jf7yt.jpg

fan up ISH

[Cocaine80s]

Lebron

[kennethgriffin]

Lebron


this is why there arent many 5000+ post members left on ISH

[Cold soul]

Michael Jordan. Please no troll thread we do these lists every year I don't expect huge change in last few years nobody other than Duncan, Lebron and maybe Kobe moving up spot or two.

[kennethgriffin]

Michael Jordan. Please no troll thread we do these lists every year I don't expect huge change in last few years nobody other than Duncan, Lebron and maybe Kobe moving up spot or two.


i wish i could accept your vote. but sadly alt accounts/trolls ruined it for everyone


minimum 5000+ posts required

[Cold soul]

i wish i could accept your vote. but sadly alt accounts/trolls ruined it for everyone


minimum 5000+ posts required

God that blows 5,000 post required meh should be more like 2k.

[Doranku]

MJ

[Gotterdammerung]

I think I've made this post before, but I always distinguish between the best and the greatest player title, because the NBA is not an individual sport where both titles are indistinguishable. The best player may not have the greater career than another player, due to extenuating circumstances beyond his control.

Best players of all time:

1. Wilt Chamberlain.
2. Kareem Abdul Jabbar.
3. Michael Jordan.
4. Oscar Robertson.
5. Hakeem Olajuwon.
6. Shaquille O'Neal.
7. LeBron James.
8. Magic Johnson.
9. Larry Bird.
10. Doctor J.

Greatest careers:

1. Bill Russell.
2. Michael Jordan.
3. Kareem Abdul Jabbar.
4. Wilt Chamberlain.
5. Tim Duncan.
6. Magic Johnson.
7. Larry Bird.
8. Kobe Bryant.
9. Doctor J.
10. Shaquille O'Neal/ LBJ.

:kobe:

To OP, the diehard Kobe fan, he's the 8th greatest player of all time. Will that do? :oldlol:

[SouBeachTalents]

Lol, this thread is so pointless. Did OP really expect Jordan not to win?

[Cold soul]

I think I've made this post before, but I always distinguish between the best and the greatest player title, because the NBA is not an individual sport where both titles are indistinguishable. The best player may not have the greater career than another player, due to extenuating circumstances beyond his control.

Best players of all time:

1. Wilt Chamberlain.
2. Kareem Abdul Jabbar.
3. Michael Jordan.
4. Oscar Robertson.
5. Hakeem Olajuwon.
6. Shaquille O'Neal.
7. LeBron James.
8. Magic Johnson.
9. Larry Bird.
10. Doctor J.

Greatest careers:

1. Bill Russell.
2. Michael Jordan.
3. Kareem Abdul Jabbar.
4. Wilt Chamberlain.
5. Tim Duncan.
6. Magic Johnson.
7. Larry Bird.
8. Kobe Bryant.
9. Doctor J.
10. Shaquille O'Neal/ LBJ.

:kobe:

To OP, the diehard Kobe fan, he's the 8th greatest player of all time. Will that do? :oldlol:

Kobe as player only is in same tier as Bird and Magic some will disagree not saying he's better but same tier as players go. Kobe talent level is top 10 at worst 15. The career at #8 can't disagree with that.

[G-train]

Bill Russell

[DaSeba5]

I tried this and it failed. Not enough people take it serious and then people get upset with the choices.

[DaSeba5]

With that said, #1 - Michael Jordan

[Gotterdammerung]

I tried this and it failed. Not enough people take it serious and then people get upset with the choices.
The history of a life, whatever else it may be, is a history of failure. -- Sartre
:oldlol:

[FKAri]

Michael B. Jordan

[stalkerforlife]

Jordan.

Kobe 2nd.

But this is obvious and not much of a debate.

[dubeta]

Jordan.

Kobe 2nd.

But this is obvious and not much of a debate.


Quite a few spots between them, Justin


http://www.quickmeme.com/img/cd/cdb310ad67072458a3390322c315849d700d58692c606c2905 f09b8c167cfdb1.jpg

[stalkerforlife]

Quite a few spots between them, Justin


http://www.quickmeme.com/img/cd/cdb310ad67072458a3390322c315849d700d58692c606c2905 f09b8c167cfdb1.jpg

BS made up by nerds to push an agenda.

[dubeta]

BS made up by nerds to push an agenda.


A ranking that has Jordan LeBron and Shaq as top 3 is BS with an agenda?? :lol :roll: :roll:


Its MUCH better than just ranking players simply by rings (ie Horry > Kobe)

[stalkerforlife]

A ranking that has Jordan LeBron and Shaq as top 3 is BS with an agenda?? :lol :roll: :roll:


Its MUCH better than just ranking players simply by rings (ie Horry > Kobe)

Name the top ten using your geeky formula.

[dubeta]

Name the top ten using your geeky formula.


Ranked by PER (only criteria, needs to have at least 1 MVP and championship)


1. Jordan

2. LeBron

3. Shaq

4. David Robinson

5.Wilt Chamberlain

6. Kareem

7. Duncan

8. Magic

9. Hakeem

10. Bird





Not bad :confusedshrug:

[stalkerforlife]

Ranked by PER (only criteria, needs to have at least 1 MVP and championship)


1. Jordan

2. LeBron

3. Shaq

4. David Robinson

5.Wilt Chamberlain

6. Kareem

7. Duncan

8. Magic

9. Hakeem

10. Bird





Not bad :confusedshrug:

Take away your added criteria.

[HOoopCityJones]

Ranked by PER (only criteria, needs to have at least 1 MVP and championship)


1. Jordan

2. LeBron

3. Shaq

4. David Robinson

5.Wilt Chamberlain

6. Kareem

7. Duncan

8. Magic

9. Hakeem

10. Bird





Not bad :confusedshrug:


Now explain how David Robinson is better than Magic , Bird and Hakeem you stupid piece of shit.

[BasedTom]

Eddie Jones

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Changing my vote to Austin Rivers.

[HOoopCityJones]

Chris Duhon

[dhsilv]

5000 isnt even that many

its to avoid alt accounts

For YOU that is more than 2 post a day. I'd consider that a pretty big number.

[ralph_i_el]

Now explain how David Robinson is better than Magic , Bird and Hakeem you stupid piece of shit.

Because it's regular season PER and he is one of the goat all-around impact players of all time :confusedshrug: and he came into the league in his athletic prime, so he doesn't have any seasons when he was young and still trying to improve to an all-star level. That's why we should look at other criteria as well, like playoff performance and career context.

When one player consistently shows up weaker in advanced stats than the people he's compared with, it probably means something.

[sd3035]

clearly Kobe Bryant

[HOoopCityJones]

Because it's regular season PER and he is one of the goat all-around impact players of all time :confusedshrug: and he came into the league in his athletic prime, so he doesn't have any seasons when he was young and still trying to improve to an all-star level. That's why we should look at other criteria as well, like playoff performance and career context.

When one player consistently shows up weaker in advanced stats than the people he's compared with, it probably means something.

Who's not better than half the players he's ahead of? Fucc outta here with that.

What does this kind of shit even mean? IF you're referring to Kobe, PER was invented specifically to undermine Kobe's impact and prop up Lebron. Before Hollinger started pushing that agenda , no one gave two shits about PER.

It comes down to what happened in the game , not hypotheticals and formulas.


David Robinson is not better than Hakeem, Bird or Magic , definitely not better than Kobe. But i'll enjoy watching you try to argue as much.

[dubeta]

Who's not better half the players level he's ahead of? Fucc outta here with that shit.




I know Kobe fans are not intelligent at all, but let me try


Forget about stats




You've never wondered why...


Kobe missed the playoffs once Shaq left? Why Kobe kept losing in the 1st round without Gasol? Why Kobe couldnt make the playoffs with Dwight and Nash? Why the Lakers won in 2000 with Kobe averaging 15 ppg, and won again in 2010 with Kobe shooting 6/24?

You've never taken the time to wonder all this have you?


Advanced stats do greatly tell us player impact, especially over the course of an entire career




Kobe's advanced stats greatly match up with his impact (or lack thereof) throughout his career, where his teams were largely the same or better even with him underperforming.

[Young X]

David Robinson is not better than Hakeem, Bird or Magic , definitely not better than Kobe. But i'll enjoy watching you try to argue as much.If we're talking about the regular season? He's better than all of them.

[HOoopCityJones]

If we're talking about the regular season? He's better than all of them.

The thread title says All-time. :confusedshrug:

Not who was the best regular season player. In which case either way it's Jordan.

It's as simple as this , if stats and numbers were all there was to the game, Wilt and not Jordan would be considered GOAT. But alas here we are.

[HOoopCityJones]

I know Kobe fans are not intelligent at all, but let me try


Forget about stats




You've never wondered why...


Kobe missed the playoffs once Shaq left? Why Kobe kept losing in the 1st round without Gasol? Why Kobe couldnt make the playoffs with Dwight and Nash? Why the Lakers won in 2000 with Kobe averaging 15 ppg, and won again in 2010 with Kobe shooting 6/24?

You've never taken the time to wonder all this have you?


Advanced stats do greatly tell us player impact, especially over the course of an entire career




Kobe's advanced stats greatly match up with his impact (or lack thereof) throughout his career, where his teams were largely the same or better even with him underperforming.


Same or better without him huh? That's why Shaq couldn't win anything with Eddie or Nick before Kobe became a legit second option and defensive stud. That's why in 2013 when he went down with an Achilles injury, a Team still consisting of Steve Nash, Dwight Howard and Pau Gasol as starting options lost all hope of getting past the first round that Kobe single handedly willed them to.


So are you retarded or just a retard? Which one? :biggums:

[kennethgriffin]

Changing my vote to Austin Rivers.


since i cant find your original vote. i'l let that slide

[ArbitraryWater]

Lol, this thread is so pointless. Did OP really expect Jordan not to win?

OP actually thought people respect him, this thread or this whole idea :oldlol:
And sad Cold soul like "God that blows" :roll: zero clue on what's going on

[ArbitraryWater]

Who's not better than half the players he's ahead of? Fucc outta here with that.

What does this kind of shit even mean? IF you're referring to Kobe, PER was invented specifically to undermine Kobe's impact and prop up Lebron. Before Hollinger started pushing that agenda , no one gave two shits about PER.

It comes down to what happened in the game , not hypotheticals and formulas.


David Robinson is not better than Hakeem, Bird or Magic , definitely not better than Kobe. But i'll enjoy watching you try to argue as much.

EL-MAO


:party: :hammertime: :yaohappy:

[dubeta]

Apparently every single NBA analyst who ever created an advanced stat, made sure it calculated in a way to specifically shit on Kobe while Propping up LeBron :lol

[kennethgriffin]

Lol, this thread is so pointless. Did OP really expect Jordan not to win?



OP actually thought people respect him, this thread or this whole idea :oldlol:
And sad Cold soul like "God that blows" :roll: zero clue on what's going on



notice the 3 r*tarded alt spamming trolls with less than 5000 posts all made votes to try and ruin everything


see... this is why theyre not invited to participate



i vote michael jordan btw




http://i58.tinypic.com/33zft55.jpg

[HOoopCityJones]

http://i58.tinypic.com/33zft55.jpg

He also posts more than you per day. Now that's a ****in PER stat for that ass.

[Gileraracer]

MJ

[kennethgriffin]

Apparently every single NBA analyst who ever created an advanced stat, made sure it calculated in a way to specifically shit on Kobe while Propping up LeBron :lol


Career per


1. Michael Jordan* 28.60
2. George Mikan* 28.51
3. LeBron James 27.43
4. Shaquille O'Neal 26.13
5. Hakeem Olajuwon* 25.69
6. Chris Paul 25.16
7. Tim Duncan 24.58
8. Kevin Durant 24.35
9. Charles Barkley* 24.18
10. Dirk Nowitzki 23.98
11. Tracy McGrady 23.40
12. Dolph Schayes* 23.29
13. Dwight Howard 23.13
14. Jerry West* 23.06
15. David Robinson* 23.02
16. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 23.01
17. Magic Johnson* 22.95
18. Russell Westbrook 22.75
19. Wilt Chamberlain* 22.75
20. Dwyane Wade 22.70
21. Bob Pettit* 22.59
22. Kobe Bryant 22.40
23. Stephen Curry 22.24
24. Amar'e Stoudemire 22.08
25. Julius Erving* 22.05
26. Blake Griffin 22.01
27. Elgin Baylor* 21.83
28. Rick Barry* 21.81
29. Moses Malone* 21.57
30. Larry Bird* 21.41
31. Baron Davis 21.36
32. Allen Iverson 21.24
33. George Gervin* 21.16
34. Karl Malone* 21.12
35. Kevin Garnett 21.12
36. Oscar Robertson* 20.99
37. James Harden 20.98
38. Bob Lanier* 20.81
39. Pau Gasol 20.73
40. George Yardley* 20.72
41. Cliff Hagan* 20.62
42. Shawn Kemp 20.55
43. Gus Williams 20.37
44. Artis Gilmore* 20.36
45. Paul Arizin* 20.33
46. Dan Issel* 20.07
47. Carmelo Anthony 19.94
48. Alex English* 19.92
49. Walter Davis 19.91
50. John Stockton* 19.84
51. Walt Frazier* 19.84
52. Steve Nash 19.84
53. Isiah Thomas* 19.80
54. Manu Ginobili 19.79
55. Anfernee Hardaway 19.76
56. George McGinnis 19.73
57. Clyde Lovellette* 19.72
58. Clyde Drexler* 19.71
59. Patrick Ewing* 19.63
60. Reggie Miller* 19.55
61. Bill Russell* 19.40
62. Kevin McHale* 19.36
63. Adrian Dantley* 19.33
64. Billy Cunningham* 19.33
65. Alonzo Mourning* 19.18
66. Deron Williams 19.15
67. Chauncey Billups 19.11
68. Kevin Johnson 19.08
69. Elvin Hayes* 19.08
70. Larry Foust 19.08
71. Marques Johnson 19.06
72. Willie Wise 19.03
73. Marc Gasol 18.97
74. Roger Brown* 18.90
75. Chris Webber 18.87
76. Derrick Rose 18.80
77. Jimmy Jones 18.80
78. Brad Daugherty 18.73
79. Fred Brown 18.71
80. Dominique Wilkins* 18.71
81. Mack Calvin 18.67
82. Vince Carter 18.60
83. Bob McAdoo* 18.54
84. Zelmo Beaty 18.50
85. Mel Daniels* 18.48
86. Rajon Rondo 18.43
87. Chris Bosh 18.42
88. Rik Smits 18.40
89. Scottie Pippen* 18.35
90. James Worthy* 18.31
91. Kawhi Leonard 18.26
92. Red Robbins 18.19
93. Larry Nance 18.13
94. Terry Cummings 18.07
95. Paul Millsap 18.06
96. Andrew Bynum 18.02
97. Mark Aguirre 17.99
98. Dikembe Mutombo* 17.79
99. Willis Reed* 17.78
100. Tom Heinsohn* 17.65
101. Roy Hibbert 17.58
102. Zach Randolph 17.57
103. Paul Pierce 17.53
104. John Havlicek* 17.51
105. Sam Jones* 17.50
106. Bob Cousy* 17.39
107. Carlos Boozer 17.36
108. Alvan Adams 17.33
109. Rod Strickland 17.23
110. Josh Smith 17.19
111. Mark Price 17.17
112. Gail Goodrich* 17.17
113. Jason Kidd 17.10
114. Bob Netolicky 17.08
115. Bill Sharman* 17.07








NOPE

[ralph_i_el]

Who's not better than half the players he's ahead of? Fucc outta here with that.

What does this kind of shit even mean? IF you're referring to Kobe, PER was invented specifically to undermine Kobe's impact and prop up Lebron. Before Hollinger started pushing that agenda , no one gave two shits about PER.

It comes down to what happened in the game , not hypotheticals and formulas.


David Robinson is not better than Hakeem, Bird or Magic , definitely not better than Kobe. But i'll enjoy watching you try to argue as much.

1. He's definitely on the same tier as those guys.

2. Career PER overrated him because he came into the league at 23.

PER wasn't invented to knock down Kobe:rolleyes: that's some paranoid shit.

I'd take DRob over Kobe if I was starting a team. He's definitely a top-20 player, so I don't think it devalues PER to see him in the top-10, especially when you take into account him coming into the league in his athletic prime.


One bad series against Hakeem and DRob gets infinite disrespect:facepalm

[Dbrog]

Kenny always cherry pickin :lol

[24-Inch_Chrome]

PER wasn't invented to knock down Kobe:rolleyes: that's some paranoid shit.



Legit laughed out loud when I read that, dude actually believes that Hollinger specifically created a stat to downplay one player. :roll:

[MP.Trey]

Gordan Giricek.

[stalkerforlife]

We completely destroyed PER.

Never bring it up again.

[KG215]

Mr. Miyagi.

[HOoopCityJones]

Legit laughed out loud when I read that, dude actually believes that Hollinger specifically created a stat to downplay one player. :roll:

Bro, Hollinger, Abbot, Habberstrough, Amin etc.

That tight little crew over at ESPN True Hoop are all infamous Kobe haters and they've spearheaded the stat geek era.

Ya ni99as is cupcakes for putting so much stock into that shit. :oldlol:

[stalkerforlife]

Bro, Hollinger, Abbot, Habberstrough, Amin etc.

That tight little crew over at ESPN True Hoop are all infamous Kobe haters and they've spearheaded the stat geek era.

Ya ni99as is cupcakes for putting so much stock into that shit. :oldlol:

Bunch of white nerds that are bent out of shape because Kobe is so alpha, intelligent, good looking, and great.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

lebron james.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Bro, Hollinger, Abbot, Habberstrough, Amin etc.

That tight little crew over at ESPN True Hoop are all infamous Kobe haters and they've spearheaded the stat geek era.

Ya ni99as is cupcakes for putting so much stock into that shit. :oldlol:

:roll:

Yup, they all created formulas that downplay Kobe and only Kobe. It's all part of a nefarious agenda!

I'll add that if advanced stats showed Kobe in a positive light, you'd eat that shit up.

[kennethgriffin]

:roll:

Yup, they all created formulas that downplay Kobe and only Kobe. It's all part of a nefarious agenda!

I'll add that if advanced stats showed Kobe in a positive light, you'd eat that shit up.


ofcourse. its really the lesser of 2 evils


what do we hear guys like mike/kobe/shaq/magic and other legends talk about?

rings/ finals records


shaq - "we got 3 outa 4. cant beat that"

kobe - "i let 2 get away. but i got 1 more than shaq"

mike - ( nba 2k commercial - pointing at his 6 rings )

magic - "whos better between kobe and lebron? kobe 5 championships. lebron.... zero" ( this was during 2012 )



when do you ever hear legends say "ya he got more rings. but his per rating was 1.2 % points lower and his ELO# +/- share margin was 1 point higher and statistically speaking... aehem... ( pushes glasses up ) i'd have to say my calculations show that a = f - 5 devided by 4 means player a is a lesser efficient and thus worse player overall"

http://www.kidstrangelove.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/nerd.jpg

[dubeta]

^ Or... you can just look at


MVPs + FMVPs





much simpler than the 2 methods you explained

[kennethgriffin]

^ Or... you can just look at


MVPs + FMVPs





much simpler than the 2 methods you explained


when do you ever hear players bragging about that stuff though



magic johnson didnt even know how many mvps he won

real players dont care about anything but winning titles


and theyre smart enough to know the difference between an horry title and a star ring



shaq mostly wears the ring he won when he didnt win finals mvp

he always has his heat ring on.



its obvious players recognize that it takes 2 guys to win a title and only one guy can win mvp


shaq also reminds people regularly that nash stole his 2005 mvp

and people in and around the league more often than not admit kobe got robbed in 2006

mistakes are made picking mvp

the championship however isnt voted on.



if the experts finals pick won the title every year. thered be 10 different champions over the last 15 years


i'm sorry little 10 year old dubey brother... youre a moron and incapable of understanding these facts


because your agenda is driven toward whatever makes lebron look good

and its just not the general method people use in which to rank players

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

If its only about titles, why do most of Jordan's peers, past and present, consider him the GOAT and not Bill Russell?

:confusedshrug:

[DaOldLion]

If its only about titles, why do most of Jordan's peers, past and present, consider him the GOAT and not Bill Russell?

:confusedshrug:

because more than half of russell's rings came in an era where all you had to do was in 8 games and you were champion. And he played on a team stacked with hall of famers during a time where the talent around the rest of the league was at an all time low

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

because more than half of russell's rings came in an era where all you had to do was in 8 games and you were champion. And he played on a team stacked with hall of famers during a time where the talent around the rest of the league was at an all time low

I agree with some of that, but nobody in that circle really talks about it, publicly at least. Barkley has Oscar Robertson in his Top 5. Kenny has Kareem as 2nd GOAT after Wilt. Hell, Webber had Russell as GOAT last I checked...

Point being? Titles aren't the end all be all. Lists often vary depending on who you ask... even with ex/current players.

[kennethgriffin]

If its only about titles, why do most of Jordan's peers, past and present, consider him the GOAT and not Bill Russell?

:confusedshrug:


because 60s titles are worth half

and russell had the deck stacked in his favor... hes still a top 3 player though

plus jordan has the undefeated finals record



if a star player got 11 rings in the new era with only 1 other great teammates at a time... he'd probly be run away goat

[ShaqTwizzle]

Ring counting is stupid Kenneth.

What if KG doesn't get injured in 2009 and Perkins stays healthy in 2010?
Kobe doesn't win either of those titles.

That doesn't make him a lesser player during those years nor does it reduce his actual oncourt value for his career.

But according to you he would drop many spots and be well outside the Top 10 without them.
So where is the logic in that?

:kobe:

[kennethgriffin]

Ring counting is stupid Kenneth.

What if KG doesn't get injured in 2009 and Perkins stays healthy in 2010?
Kobe doesn't win either of those titles.

That doesn't make him a lesser player during those years nor does it reduce his actual oncourt value for his career.

But according to you he would drop many spots and be well outside the Top 10 without them.
So where is the logic in that?

:kobe:


only to geeks that never played ball


if you were in a room with larry, magic, jordan, kobe, shaq etc... you'd understand what the big boys measure themselves by



guys play to win... guys dont play to get advanced metrics


you can only do what you can control. and thats winning/losing. nothing else.

[ShaqTwizzle]

only to geeks that never played ball

if you were in a room with larry, magic, jordan, kobe, shaq etc... you'd understand what the big boys measure themselves by


You still didn't really address my argument though Kenneth.

What if KG didn't get injured in 2009 and hypothetically that prevented Kobe from winning his last 2 titles.
Would that have Kobe a less valuable player individually in those two years?

If you say no (which is the only correct answer) then why should this new hypothetical Kobe with only 3 Rings be ranked any lower career wise then the real Kobe with his 5?

Kenneth : uhh... cuz luck or good circumstances are part of greatness?
Not how it works.
I can go out tomorrow and win the lottery but that doesn't make me better at making or managing money then you are.
Just means I am a lucky ****.

[HighFlyer23]

Shammgod Wells

[kennethgriffin]

You still didn't really address my argument though Kenneth.

What if KG didn't get injured in 2009 and hypothetically that prevented Kobe from winning his last 2 titles.
Would that have Kobe a less valuable player individually in those two years?

If you say no (which is the only correct answer) then why should this new hypothetical Kobe with only 3 Rings be ranked any lower career wise then the real Kobe with his 5?

Kenneth : uhh... cuz luck or good circumstances are part of greatness?
Not how it works.
I can go out tomorrow and win the lottery but that doesn't make me better at making or managing money then you are.
Just means I am a lucky ****.


a) injuries are part of the game. they happen to nearly everyone. it all balances out in the end... kobe got ****ed over by injuries in 03, 04

b) i say kobe still wins in 2009 and 2010.

garnett averaged 18ppg on 42% fg's in the 2008 finals
garnett averaged 15ppg on 51% fg's in the 2010 finals

c) if kobe didnt win the titles in 2009 and 2010. he would be 3 for 7 in nba finals... and would have absolutely flopped without shaq

if anything. i think kobe loses spots on his all time ranking from 2008


3 rings and 1 mvp, 0 fmvps, all with shaq, 0-3 without shaq

f*ck thats nasty

yuck...

he'd be lucky to be top 15




i dont care if kobe had 4 mvps. that finals record and especially without shaq would totally ruin his legacy