Dictators belong in the Middle East....

[9erempiree]

...knowing what we know now... there is a reason why Islamic States are ruled by dictators. These people can be very violent and there is always a dispute between Muslims so guys like Saddam and Assad are needed to keep these people in check.

The stupid leadership of America has led to all the chaos in the world (thanks Bush/Obama).

I guarantee there would be no civil unrest if a Saddam was still alive. Muslims of all kind always feared that man.

Then you have Obama opening up the lion's cage when we need a proper lion tamer to handle the situation.

[lil jahlil]

...knowing what we know now... there is a reason why Islamic States are ruled by dictators. These people can be very violent and there is always a dispute between Muslims so guys like Saddam and Assad are needed to keep these people in check.

The stupid leadership of America has led to all the chaos in the world (thanks Bush/Obama).

I guarantee there would be no civil unrest if a Saddam was still alive. Muslims of all kind always feared that man.

Then you have Obama opening up the lion's cage when we need a proper lion tamer to handle the situation.

You are the reason other countries hate us.

[9erempiree]

You are the reason other countries hate us.

Do you think ISIS would exist today if Saddam was still alive and ruling?

He would torture those fvckers all day for even thinking about revolting.

[BoutPractice]

The leaders you are glorifying are estimated to have killed half a million of their own, mostly innocent people (including women and children), for the sole purpose of accumulating and preserving personal power.

They belong to a long historical line of mass murdering tyrants like Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Idi Amin etc.

If you are defending them in any way then your moral compass is seriously broken... I don't know what the precise definition of "evil" is, but I'm pretty convinced that both Assad and ISIS have VIP access to that club, and to praise one even if they claim to be fighting the other is pure folly.

Of course you in particular are a troll out to reveal the worst in our instincts, but there are enough people who actually believe that the likes of Assad are the great bulwark against terrorism that the point needs to be made nonetheless. This isn't a game...

[TheMan]

You are the reason other countries hate us.
I'm what other posters here would call a liberal, or a lefty. I mostly see the good in people while rightwingers tend to see the bad.

Having said that, the Middle East does seem to need strong armed rulers for some reason. The populations don't seem to be sophisticated enough for the messy political system that is democracy. Not all states of course, Iran seems like they would thrive but the religious leaders don't want to get out of the way.

If you notice, wherever they have strong armed rulers, they seem to have relative peace. Obviously, the opposition is forcibly supressed but the chaos that is afflicting other countries where there is a power vacuum isn't affecting those countries. Saudi Arabia is a good example...

Anyways, it sucks but the world isn't perfect. Some people aren't ready for democracy, they're behind the West. Some of those people still trade their daughters for livestock FFS.

[lil jahlil]

Do you think ISIS would exist today if Saddam was still alive and ruling?

He would torture those fvckers all day for even thinking about revolting.

I think if you left ISH for 2 years, ISIS would disappear. If you continue to post here despite that, you are just as bad as the terrorists.

[CasterL]

For the first time I'm in agreement. These guys were the lid on the boiling kettle so to speak. Bad guys for sure but products of their environment, not ours.

Blundering cack handed western intervention completely failed to take that into account.

[Lebron23]

How much do you weight?

[LJJ]

The leaders you are glorifying are estimated to have killed half a million mostly innocent people (including women and children), for the sole purpose of accumulating and preserving personal power.

They belong to a long historical line of mass murdering tyrants like Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Idi Amin etc.

If you are defending them in any way then your moral compass is seriously broken... I don't know what the precise definition of "evil" is, but I'm pretty convinced that both Assad and ISIS have VIP access to that club, and to praise one even if they claim to be fighting the other is pure folly.

Of course you in particular are a troll out to reveal the worst in our instincts, but there are enough people who actually believe that the likes of Assad are the great bulwark against terrorism that the point needs to be made nonetheless.

Oh, bunk. Assad is not anywhere near Hitler, Stalin or Pol Pot in terms of wickedness. Where is the genocide, citizen massacres, death camps, mass labor camps, engineered starvation, etc?

By all accounts Syria was a relatively nice place before the Islamist uprising. Little violence, little crime, little absolute poverty. A variety of different creeds and people free to practice their own religion and culture. A much nicer place to live than many countries in the region. Hardly comparable to the worst dictators of this time, let alone the worst genocidal tyrants in history.

Assad suppressed dissidents, suppressed Sunni extremism (correctly identified as a big threat tho) and is a crook taking a lot more money than he needs and holding on to his power. He didn't massacre his citizens. The Islamist uprising was a nice opportunity for the Saudi's (A much, much, much worse regime than Assad) and the US to get rid of a Shia, Russian allied government. That's the reason for this war, not that Assad was so awful he was first on the list to fix the world.

[TheMan]

Oh, bunk. Assad is not anywhere near Hitler, Stalin or Pol Pot in terms of wickedness. Where is the genocide, citizen massacres, death camps, mass labor camps, engineered starvation, etc?

By all accounts Syria was a relatively nice place before the Islamist uprising. Little violence, little crime, little absolute poverty. A variety of different creeds and people free to practice their own religion and culture. A much nicer place to live than many countries in the region. Hardly comparable to the worst dictators of this time, let alone the worst genocidal tyrants in history.

Assad suppressed dissidents, suppressed Sunni extremism (correctly identified as a big threat tho) and is a crook taking a lot more money than he needs and holding on to his power. He didn't massacre his citizens. The Islamist uprising was a nice opportunity for the Saudi's (A much, much, much worse regime than Assad) and the US to get rid of a Shia, Russian allied government. That's the reason for this war, not that Assad was so awful he was first on the list to fix the world.
:applause:

[BoutPractice]

TheMan > This is the sort of circular logic that prevents democracy from emerging in the first place. These people aren't good enough for democracy => what's the point of them having democracy => still no democracy => goes to show they're not good enough to democracy.

What's needed for democracy to work in practice is rule of law, independent judges, protection of minorities and so on. (Which are mainly about institutions and cultural norms, not the quality of the people... the US population, by and large, is about as un-sophisticated as they come. Personal freedom in the US doesn't lead to collective disaster despite the frightening stupidity of the average American, because the system was well designed in the first place)

But those tyrants aren't actually bringing "rule of law" to the Middle East. They're just interested in keeping power for themselves... They don't particularly like stability, either... that's the big lie they tell the outside world, and we eat it up all the time. Nothing works better for a despot than a little divide-and-conquer, and especially, a big foreign conspiracy to fight against. Their business works exactly like the mafia - the bigger the threat of violence, the more "protection" you need. Another comparison you can make is that tyrants are like consultants, or political pundits: their primary goal is to justify their own existence.

And no, "Saudi" Arabia isn't a good example of "'stability" at all. Those mobsters are one of the leading causes of instability in the Middle East today... The ideology that fuels ISIS, wahhabism was mainly developed and propagated by Saudi Arabia... There's a lot of evidence suggesting they're the ones who made 9/11 happen, and they've demonstrably been funding Sunni extremism for decades, spending billions every year to set up radical mosques and arm various Islamist "rebels" throughout the world. Saudi Arabia is Iran's twin adversary - using proxies to spread chaos in the region as part of a regional power struggle. We just don't like to talk about it in polite society because we're supposed to be on their side (which, frankly is a bit disgusting and is fueling this whole sectarian mess). But the point is, Saudi Arabia is all about chaos, not stability, they need it to survive.

LLJ > Nonsense. This idea that people rising up against a dictator are necessarily Islamists allied to some shady foreign conspiracy is exactly what the dictator wants you to believe. That's what you should be questioning...

The powerful of the world love to make you think that ordinary people can't change history, that they control the script, that everything is about power struggles and conspiracies.

The truth is, no one controls anything. (Not that I don't believe in conspiracies... I do believe in conspiracies, but I also believe most conspiracies fail) Dictators are first and foremost afraid of their own people, because they know they will rise up against them someday, in a movement that will be purely spontaneous - an eruption of the crowd.

In the real world, crowds exist, revolutions exist. Things like the French Revolution, the 1848 Revolutions, or the revolts against the Soviet Union in 1956 happen, that no one can predict nor control. If you closely follow events on the ground, you'll see that a popular uprising are a messy, chaotic affair that most surprise their own protagonists.

In the particular case of Assad, there is overwhelming evidence that the movement against him was not based on a plot by a particular sect to seize power, but was at first peaceful and broad-based.

[9erempiree]

The leaders you are glorifying are estimated to have killed half a million of their own, mostly innocent people (including women and children), for the sole purpose of accumulating and preserving personal power.

They belong to a long historical line of mass murdering tyrants like Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Idi Amin etc.

If you are defending them in any way then your moral compass is seriously broken... I don't know what the precise definition of "evil" is, but I'm pretty convinced that both Assad and ISIS have VIP access to that club, and to praise one even if they claim to be fighting the other is pure folly.

Of course you in particular are a troll out to reveal the worst in our instincts, but there are enough people who actually believe that the likes of Assad are the great bulwark against terrorism that the point needs to be made nonetheless. This isn't a game...

The lesser of two evils?

To refute your statements, no, I am not glorifying them. Saddam and Assad instilled fear to the people and it has become the norm for many generations. It is part of their lives. Who are we to say they deserve freedom?

You cannot give freedom to people that are not willing to fight for it. Look at all those Syrian men fleeing their country and leaving the women and children behind. Are human that selfish? Either they are cowards or they are pretending to be refugees.

Anyways, you cannot give Iraqis freedom when they are not willing to fight for it. You can say they have no chance against Saddam's regime but that is life. While it sucks how they are getting treated but perhaps Saddam is a leader that keeps that region civil. Call it collateral damage so to speak, you are going to have casualties to keep that region in check.

If you turn a blind eye to Saddam, the world is a much more peaceful place. Remember why we invaded Iraq....these so-called WMD's that didn't exist. While Saddam was evil but he had no intentions to invade the world like what we are seeing now.

[9erempiree]

Oh, bunk. Assad is not anywhere near Hitler, Stalin or Pol Pot in terms of wickedness. Where is the genocide, citizen massacres, death camps, mass labor camps, engineered starvation, etc?

By all accounts Syria was a relatively nice place before the Islamist uprising. Little violence, little crime, little absolute poverty. A variety of different creeds and people free to practice their own religion and culture. A much nicer place to live than many countries in the region. Hardly comparable to the worst dictators of this time, let alone the worst genocidal tyrants in history.

Assad suppressed dissidents, suppressed Sunni extremism (correctly identified as a big threat tho) and is a crook taking a lot more money than he needs and holding on to his power. He didn't massacre his citizens. The Islamist uprising was a nice opportunity for the Saudi's (A much, much, much worse regime than Assad) and the US to get rid of a Shia, Russian allied government. That's the reason for this war, not that Assad was so awful he was first on the list to fix the world.

While we don't see eye-to-eye on a lot of things....reference soccer thread and others....this was a very good post.

[LJJ]

LLJ > Nonsense. This idea that people rising up against a dictator are necessarily Islamists allied to some shady foreign conspiracy is exactly what the dictator wants you to believe. That's what you should be questioning...

In the particular case of Assad, there is overwhelming evidence that the movement against him was not based on a plot by a particular sect to seize power, but was at first peaceful and broad-based.

It's based on the fact that the main force that emerged from the protests to fight Assad is an Islamist force. The same thing that happened with the other successful Arab Spring movements.

If there was an army in place of all the Syrian people fighting the Assad government, sure. But it's the sunni extremists fighting Assad and inflicting as much damage on minorities and religious freedom as they can, not a broad-based revolution at all. By and large all the people who aren't sunni have sided with Assad, these people know what the intention is on both sides.

My opinion is based on this particular case, not a broader notion about dictatorships and asinine comparisons to Hitler and Stalin.

[Trollsmasher]

of course, islam is a political system in a direct conflict with "democracy"

you only have a choice between a theocracy and secular dictatorship

[9erempiree]

of course, islam is a political system in a direct conflict with "democracy"

you only have a choice between a theocracy and secular dictatorship

Thank you my nig.

:cheers:

[ISHGoat]

The leaders you are glorifying are estimated to have killed half a million of their own, mostly innocent people (including women and children), for the sole purpose of accumulating and preserving personal power.

They belong to a long historical line of mass murdering tyrants like Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Idi Amin etc.

If you are defending them in any way then your moral compass is seriously broken... I don't know what the precise definition of "evil" is, but I'm pretty convinced that both Assad and ISIS have VIP access to that club, and to praise one even if they claim to be fighting the other is pure folly.

Of course you in particular are a troll out to reveal the worst in our instincts, but there are enough people who actually believe that the likes of Assad are the great bulwark against terrorism that the point needs to be made nonetheless. This isn't a game...

:facepalm :facepalm

Dont be so easily brainwashed little fool.

Stalin and Mao were two of the greatest leaders of the 20th century. You let either of them rule current USA, or EU, or my country - The Middle East - and those countries will prosper. Did they do some unethical shit? Certainly. But dont act like American and Western leaders are some saints. To lead is to make difficult decisions, and difficult decisions Stalin and Mao made. There is a reason there are statues and portraits of those two in their countries and they stayed in power for so long.

Of course, Western education will never allow such thought, as those were communist countries, which in some ridiculous way made them America's greatest enemy, as Americans couldn't accept the fact that there were people governing themselves differently. This same thought-policing is to make you believe that Taiwan is its own country, Tibet should be its own country, and that the PRC is some evil Sith Empire.

The same Government that leads you to believe that Saddam, Gaddafi, Assad, Castro, etc are also "ruthless heartless mass murderers". Which is extremely funny because Americans were the ones giving guns and supplies to Saddam and Gaddafi up until the point where they stopped listening to the US, and then it was time to assassinate their character, find a reason to go into the country, and then overrule them and plant an American-friendly ruler. And Americans eat this shit up.

[senelcoolidge]

So on one hand you have a dictator that rules with a iron fist. Sure people are killed and tortured, but the country is relatively peaceful otherwise. People work, businesses, go to school, have family outings, and other religious groups are protected from intolerable dogs. Or you have a group of people that will kill not only non-muslims but other muslims. Kill and rape children. Are committed to killing people in other parts of the world. The lowest of the low. I'd take the dictator.
Also Stalin and Mao were not great leaders. We've seen where communism leads. It leads to death and suffering. If your idea of propping yourself and cronies up and letting everyone else suffer is your idea of good than so be it. Stalin and Mao were paranoid. Stalin murdered his generals because he taught they were going to back stab him. Mao killed people that were of education. They were filth.

[longtime lurker]

These people don't need dictators they need Western powers to stop meddling in the affairs of their countries and reverse the damage that's been done.

[KevinNYC]

Oh, bunk. Assad is not anywhere near Hitler, Stalin or Pol Pot in terms of wickedness. Where is the genocide, citizen massacres, death camps, mass labor camps, engineered starvation, etc? Agreed.


By all accounts Syria was a relatively nice place before the Islamist uprising. Little violence, little crime, little absolute poverty. A nice place to live if you didn't mind a one party party system without rule of law, freedom of speech or assembly. Poverty was on the rise. There was pretty significant drought was going on for several years that wiped out famers. It brought a flood of poor refugees from rural areas into the cities. So even before the Arab Spring happened you had something like 7% of the population had their lives uprooted. Imagine if 20 million or more farmers in the US had lost their jobs and came to the cities and were struggling.
He didn't massacre his citizens. The Islamist uprising was a nice opportunity for the Saudi's (A much, much, much worse regime than Assad) and the US to get rid of a Shia, Russian allied government. That's the reason for this war, not that Assad was so awful he was first on the list to fix the world. And here's where the bullshit begins.

There was not an Islamist uprising in 2011. There were protests calling for democratic government or, at least reforms. They wanted what happened in Tunisia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tunisian_Revolution). A civil war did not break out in Tunisia. It did in Syria. Becaue in very early 2011, Assad began massacring his citizens. And he began massacring them before any of the outside groups you mention got involved. May 2011 (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-13299793)
The Damascus Center for Human Rights Studies (DCHRS) says snipers and anti-aircraft machine guns are being used to fire on unarmed civilians.
Recent amateur video appears to show dozens of unarmed protesters being shot and bleeding to death on the streets.
The government is trying to quell seven weeks of protests that began in Deraa.
In cities across the country, protesters are calling for greater political rights and personal freedoms. Some are calling for the downfall of the regime of President Bashar al-Assad.
On Thursday, the US and Italy condemned the "brutal crackdown" by the Syrian government on its people.

More than 500 Syrians are thought to have been killed and at least 2,500 others detained. The flashpoint for the protests (http://content.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2076778,00.html) was the torture of several teenagers in a poor neighborhood for anti-regime graffitti.

DARA'A — Al-Balad, a neighborhood in the historic district of Dara'a, has become the ghetto of death. Since the end of March, it's been on permanent lockdown, surrounded by the Syrian army. From rooftops and balconies, soldiers shoot those who try to get into or out of the neighborhood. Dara'a is the hotbed of the Syrian uprising, al-Balad its core. It was in this poor neighborhood that the "Syrian spring" came to life on March 16. People rose out of indignation and anger after the military police tortured a dozen teenagers caught painting graffiti imitating the Egyptian revolution that read, "The people want the regime to fall."

In months there would defections from the Syrian army to the opposition and that

The uprising was not Islamist, this woman (http://carnegieendowment.org/syriaincrisis/?fa=48619) was a catalyst for protests was elected one of the Vice Presidents of the opposition.

[KevinNYC]

Convincing people that the uprisings were Islamist in nature from the very beginning is the single most valuable propaganda victory Assad has achieved.

The Syrian Civil War was a response to the Arab Spring its intensity was due to domestic reasons not outside agitation.

[9erempiree]

Convincing people that the uprisings were Islamist in nature from the very beginning is the single most valuable propaganda victory Assad has achieved.

The Syrian Civil War was a response to the Arab Spring its intensity was due to domestic reasons not outside agitation.

A 17-year old freely goes around calling you a cuck and suddenly you want me to believe your shit?

[iamgine]

The leaders you are glorifying are estimated to have killed half a million of their own, mostly innocent people (including women and children), for the sole purpose of accumulating and preserving personal power.

They belong to a long historical line of mass murdering tyrants like Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Idi Amin etc.

If you are defending them in any way then your moral compass is seriously broken... I don't know what the precise definition of "evil" is, but I'm pretty convinced that both Assad and ISIS have VIP access to that club, and to praise one even if they claim to be fighting the other is pure folly.

Of course you in particular are a troll out to reveal the worst in our instincts, but there are enough people who actually believe that the likes of Assad are the great bulwark against terrorism that the point needs to be made nonetheless. This isn't a game...
Defending them is not the right word.

More like...they do have their uses.

A strong but evil dictator is not a better individual than a weak but kind leader. That much is clear.

However, in certain places and time it's better to have an evil dictator. The evil dictator will kill 5 of his own people everyday. The weak but kind leader will cause 15 of his people to be killed everyday.

[KevinNYC]

A 17-year old freely goes around calling you a cuck and suddenly you want me to believe your shit?

Do you actually give a shit what 17-year-olds on message boards say?

[HitandRun Reggie]

OP is spot on. It was a HUGE mistake to remove Sadaam from power just like it is a huge mistake to remove Assad. The ME doesn't care about justice, community or compassion. They only respect religion, fear and power.

[LJJ]

Convincing people that the uprisings were Islamist in nature from the very beginning is the single most valuable propaganda victory Assad has achieved.

The Syrian Civil War was a response to the Arab Spring its intensity was due to domestic reasons not outside agitation.

Sunni extremism has always been a problem in Syria and was absolutely the root of the arab spring movement, backed by Saudi funding.

Now, there may have been a minority of people calling for a true secular democratic society that the western media loves to focus on. But that is absolutely not the majority and boldly ignoring all the facts about the opposition in Syria that we've seen since then. This is part of the propaganda battle, show the unveiled women pleading for freedom to the western audience while 99% of the rebels and former protesters can't wait to start enforcing strict Islamist doctrine when they get power. I'll tell you one thing, that "Protest leader" you linked to isn't currently in Syria happily living in rebel areas. In those areas they are currently throwing gays off of flats while that woman lives in France with a nice cushion of charity money. She is never returning to live in Syria no matter who wins the conflict.

It's amazing how some people expect other's to believe that this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_armed_groups_in_the_Syrian_Civil_War Is all the result of a secular peaceful protest movement. Just look at the parties involved with the rebels. Every element of it is Islamist to the core.

[fiddy]

A nice place to live if you didn't mind a one party party system without rule of law, freedom of speech or assembly. Poverty was on the rise. There was pretty significant drought was going on for several years that wiped out famers. It brought a flood of poor refugees from rural areas into the cities. So even before the Arab Spring happened you had something like 7% of the population had their lives uprooted. Imagine if 20 million or more farmers in the US had lost their jobs and came to the cities and were struggling. And here's where the bullshit begins.

Kind of reminds of the U.S.

[sammichoffate]

The US keeps meddling in affairs they shouldn't be, like when they removed Gaddafi from power in Libya. Sure you take down the dictator, but that country wasn't stable enough to have a democracy yet and now there's factions killing each other to grab power instead of having an actual electoral process. "B-b-but democracy will solve everything". Dictator is just a shiny word asshats like to use because they can't analyze systems of government for what they are and what they offer compared to what they cost :facepalm Authoritarian states aren't always the best option, but they're necessary at times. You can't just start democratizing every country you see and ask for a good result, it does not work that way.

[lil jahlil]

I'm what other posters here would call a liberal, or a lefty. I mostly see the good in people while rightwingers tend to see the bad.

Having said that, the Middle East does seem to need strong armed rulers for some reason. The populations don't seem to be sophisticated enough for the messy political system that is democracy. Not all states of course, Iran seems like they would thrive but the religious leaders don't want to get out of the way.

If you notice, wherever they have strong armed rulers, they seem to have relative peace. Obviously, the opposition is forcibly supressed but the chaos that is afflicting other countries where there is a power vacuum isn't affecting those countries. Saudi Arabia is a good example...

Anyways, it sucks but the world isn't perfect. Some people aren't ready for democracy, they're behind the West. Some of those people still trade their daughters for livestock FFS.

The reason they are like that is because of years of control from dictators. They have always been forced to behave certain ways and follow strict rules.

[KevinNYC]

Kind of reminds of the U.S.
If you're a ****ing idiot.

Here's people assembling and exercising their political speech and petitioning their government for redress of their grievances, the kind of thing that had been banned in Syria since about 1963.

Americans can do from the right
http://www.teapartytribune.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/tea-party-hobbits-march.jpg

from the left.
http://media.nola.com/politics/photo/occupy-boisejpg-ef2380ecf5f49620.jpg

outside my office.
http://static1.businessinsider.com/image/4ec51d62eab8ea4f1c000002/morning-march-occupy-wall-street.png

None of the people below worried at all about being arrested.
http://mugsysrapsheet.com/4blog/BushHitler/bush_hitler02.jpg
https://lynnrockets.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/certificate_hitler.png

[9erempiree]

We really need more powerful dictators in that region.

Sadly, once you take them down, it is hard to put another guy there.

You can't just take an application.

[fiddy]

If you're a ****ing idiot.

None of the people below worried at all about being arrested.

Like their opinion matters, you country is ran by either corporate sponsored puppet A or corporate sponsored puppet B, and you call that democracy? Bitch please. Freedom of speech? Mainstream headlines that fit the agenda only make it to general public, which is brainwashed by double standards and hypocrisy. Pls, keep your clueless mouth shut, you humanoid sheep.

[KevinNYC]

Sunni extremism has always been a problem in Syria and was absolutely the root of the arab spring movement, backed by Saudi funding.Such bullshit. The Arab spring was unplanned and set off because a Tunisian fruit vendor set himself on fire to protest government corruption and thievery.

Tunisia today (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tunisia#Revolution) is a constitutional republic, their consitution, rejected sharia law (http://www.alarabiya.net/articles/2012/03/27/203529.html), recognizes freedom of religion and the country held free and fair elections in 2014. The first president after the revolution was human rights activist and the second president was the founder of the big secularist party. There are now dozens of legal political parties and they have a high percentage of women holding seats in their parliament. Women have it much better that most neighboring countries, women's rights are protected under the constitution and

A Code of Personal Status was adopted shortly after independence in 1956, which, among other things, gave women full legal status (allowing them to run and own businesses, have bank accounts, and seek passports under their own authority). The code outlawed the practices of polygamy and repudiation and a husband’s right to unilaterally divorce his wife. The Code of Personal Status remains one of the most progressive civil codes in the North Africa and the Muslim world.

Yeah, I'm sure Saudi Arabia is dying for this model to succeed across the Arab world.


Now, there may have been a minority of people calling for a true secular democratic society that the western media loves to focus on. But that is absolutely not the majority and boldly ignoring all the facts about the opposition in Syria that we've seen since then. The facts you seen since then are that Assad successfully made this a sectarian war and used tactics like ethnic cleansing, rape campaigns as a method of terror to radicalize the opposition. It's why Assad released Islamist jihadi prisoners in 2011.
I'll tell you one thing, that "Protest leader" you linked to isn't currently in Syria happily living in rebel areas. In those areas they are currently throwing gays off of flats while that woman lives in France with a nice cushion of charity money. She is never returning to live in Syria no matter who wins the conflict. Last I heard she runs an humanitarian NGO on Turkish-Syrian border.

[Nick Young]

KevinNYC trying to enforce his CIS-gender white imperialist world views on other cultures that he doesn't understand.

What a disgusting, racist and patronizing individual.:facepalm

[KevinNYC]

Like their opinion matters, you country is ran by either corporate sponsored puppet A or corporate sponsored puppet B, and you call that democracy? Bitch please. Pls, keep your clueless mouth shut, you humanoid sheep.Ooooh, you're edgy. So edgy.

Freedom of speech? Mainstream headlines that fit the agenda only make it to general public, which is brainwashed by double standards and hypocrisy.


This is just toxically stupid. What do headlines have to do with it? You can read and publish and say an incredibly broad range of any idea you want in the USA with being arrested for it. In Syria, you couldn't even log on to Facebook.

Hell, in the US I could even be super-edgy and support Ron Paul. He's such marginalized underground voice of dissent even though he was a member of the US government for 30 years and his son is 1 of 100 senators.

[9erempiree]

KevinNYC trying to enforce his CIS-gender white imperialist world views on other cultures that he doesn't understand.

What a disgusting, racist and patronizing individual.:facepalm

...and he believes all that shit with a passion too.

:facepalm

[Nick Young]

Ooooh, you're edgy. So edgy.

Freedom of speech? Mainstream headlines that fit the agenda only make it to general public, which is brainwashed by double standards and hypocrisy.


This is just toxically stupid. What do headlines have to do with it? You can read and publish and say an incredibly broad range of any idea you want in the USA with being arrested for it. In Syria, you couldn't even log on to Facebook.

Hell, in the US I could even be super-edgy and support Ron Paul. He's such marginalized underground voice of dissent even though he was a member of the US government for 30 years and his son is 1 of 100 senators.
Ron Paul is a moderate conservative, just like the rest of the people in the US government, including your boy Obama.

Stop trying to force your Western Christian imperialist values on other cultures that don't want them. Check your privilege, bro.

[fiddy]

Hell, in the US I could even be super-edgy and support Ron Paul. He's such marginalized underground voice of dissent even though he was a member of the US government for 30 years and his son is 1 of 100 senators.
So what? That just a further proof that the majority of the american public is brain dead and lack common sense, while following the hypocrisy they are being fed via mainstream media on daily basis. There are many dissent individuals nailing the truth daily, but the problem is the public is too busy with caitlyn jenner. Tbh i've got more freedom than you do, but you will never realize it, just like you will never realize, what a tool you are.

About that facebook thing, im pretty sure it is incorrect. Btw in Saudi Arabia they have religious police that prosecutes peoples for their cultural interest, and you still think that Assad is the devil? :facepalm

[Smook B]

Kevin take the L and move on.

[dunksby]

Isn't democracy the tyranny of masses? Dictator doesn't equal crazy psychopathic killer, ME countries come from an ancient line of civilization and monarchy, so one man in power works better.

[fiddy]

Isn't democracy the tyranny of masses? Dictator doesn't equal crazy psychopathic killer, ME countries come from an ancient line of civilization and monarchy, so one man in power works better.
Agreed
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy:_The_God_That_Failed

[code green]

The only reason Assad is still in power after all of this time is because the majority of Syrians love him and want him to be in power, especially the Christians and minority Muslims. I don't know how many times I have to tell the likes of KevinNYC. He'd be looooong gone by now if that's what the people wanted. And I'd be willing to bet my life on the fact that a good portion of the "Syrian" refugees aren't actually Syrian. I've seen way too many "rebel" videos where I didn't understand a word being said, because they weren't using a Lebanese/Syrian dialect.

[LJJ]

The facts you seen since then are that Assad successfully made this a sectarian war and used tactics like ethnic cleansing, rape campaigns as a method of terror to radicalize the opposition. It's why Assad released Islamist jihadi prisoners in 2011.

These aren't facts at all. All allegations of this kind all come from the same source and aren't factual or reliable in even the smallest sense.

It's funny how we never ever hear any of these things from the Kurds, Christians, Alawites and moderate Sunnis. These allegations always come from extremist shitholes like Daraa, without any substantiation or proof except for "witnesses" from essentially terrorist cells.

Assad is harsh on Islamists, this is without a doubt. But rape campaigns? Ethnic cleansing? Please. How do you ethnically cleanse a group that compromises 90% of the population? These kind of far out, completely idiotic claims that are clearly propaganda to any one with an inch of sense is what we are dealing with here.

Did you seriously just say that it's a fact Assad tried to ethnically cleanse 90% of the Syrian population? This is like that time you said the UN as an organisation follows orders from Assad. Absolute ridiculous propaganda.

[9erempiree]

These aren't facts at all. All allegations of this kind all come from the same source and aren't factual or reliable in even the smallest sense.

It's funny how we never ever hear any of these things from the Kurds, Christians, Alawites and moderate Sunnis. These allegations always come from extremist shitholes like Daraa, without any substantiation or proof except for "witnesses" from essentially terrorist cells.

Assad is harsh on Islamists, this is without a doubt. But rape campaigns? Ethnic cleansing? Please. How do you ethnically cleanse a group that compromises 90% of the population? These kind of far out, completely idiotic claims that are clearly propaganda to any one with an inch of sense is what we are dealing with here.

Did you seriously just say that it's a fact Assad tried to ethnically cleanse 90% of the Syrian population? This is like that time you said the UN as an organisation follows orders from Assad. Absolute ridiculous propaganda.

He an idiot and he doesn't speak for most of us.

[BigNBAfan]

Dictators dont belong anywhere.

[fiddy]

Dictators dont belong anywhere.
What about Hell?

[Nick Young]

The only reason Assad is still in power after all of this time is because the majority of Syrians love him and want him to be in power, especially the Christians and minority Muslims. I don't know how many times I have to tell the likes of KevinNYC. He'd be looooong gone by now if that's what the people wanted. And I'd be willing to bet my life on the fact that a good portion of the "Syrian" refugees aren't actually Syrian. I've seen way too many "rebel" videos where I didn't understand a word being said, because they weren't using a Lebanese/Syrian dialect.
Assad allowed people of all religions to practice freely and he kept the murderous fundamentalists down. The majority like Assad and had no problem with the way he was running his country. I can guarantee also that a majority want Assad back in power ahead of the murderous fundamentalists in ISIS.

If KevinNYC had his way, the Obama-backed Muslim fundamentalists who rape children and eat dead soldiers hearts would be in power in Syria.:facepalm

A majority of the "Syrian" refuges in Europe right now are actually Pakistani.


Also, the people of Egypt were 100X better under "Evil Dictator" Mubarak than they are right now.

Sometimes, dictatorship is a good thing. Just look at Ancient Rome under Julius Ceasar or France under Napoleon.

[BigNBAfan]

What about Hell?

I recognize no such place.

[WallIn]

Can't believe at some of the posts here.

You can't just plant a democracy in a region of the world that never had one (Islamic world). 90% of the time it will cause a shitstorm of epic proportions.

And those allegations that include Assad doing 'ethnic cleansings' and 'rape campaigns' are just laughable in and of itself.

[BigNBAfan]

Can't believe at some of the posts here.

You can't just plant a democracy in a region of the world that never had one (Islamic world). 90% of the time it will cause a shitstorm of epic proportions.

And those allegations that include Assad doing 'ethnic cleansings' and 'rape campaigns' are just laughable in and of itself.

Sure you can, look at India. It's no the middle east but a country with over 1B can function well under a democracy.

[Nick Young]

Sure you can, look at India. It's no the middle east but a country with over 1B can function well under a democracy.
They chose democracy themselves though. No one forced India to be a democracy. Also that country is still racist and their government is still one of the most corrupt in the world.

Also, India has lots of Muslims, but they aren't the majority, and it's a country that has a strong tradition of accepting all religious faiths. Many Islamic countries don't share that same tradition.

[KevinNYC]

About that facebook thing, im pretty sure it is incorrect.
It's a widely known fact and it's a pretty simple thing to look up.


About that facebook thing, im pretty sure it is incorrect. Btw in Saudi Arabia .........
A near perfect example of whataboutism. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism) When you resort to this, you're pretty much conceded you don't have an argument.

Pssst. Saudi Arabia also blocks Facebook.


........you still think that Assad is the devil? :facepalm See post #20 in this thread.


Tbh i've got more freedom than you do,Also something that can be looked up. (https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-press/2015/bulgaria)

[rezznor]

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--LaqlWEbl--/1456903524467467331.gif