Pop vs Belichick--who's the best coach today?

[sportjames23]

Who you got?

[Beastmode88]

Hack a shaq vs Deflate/Spy-gate, I'd pick pop.

[kennethgriffin]

pop

he does more with less

a team full of 2nd round rejects, hasbeens and foreign soft little b*tches mixed with rookies... and he takes them to the finals


meanwhile belichick has Gronk and Brady both playing as well as ever with a solid team behind them


belichick can skip games and his teams dont miss a beat


if pop quit tomorrow that team would nose drive

[Pushxx]

I have Belichick as the best coach in known sports history. Pop is in the top 10 of that list, though.

[Brook(lyn)Lopez]

Pop doesn't have the balls to bend the rules and win at all costs with no regards to sportsmanship that stone cold Beli-cheat does.
Take that as you want, but a cheating Pop would repeat at least once these past 15 years.

[ScalsFan21]

I feel like it's more difficult to establish a Pats-like run of dominance the way Bill has for the past 15 years and counting. 4 rings, 6 AFC titles, in the mix literally every season since he took over except I guess 2002. Went 11-5 with a Cassel-led team the one year they missed playoffs.

The Spurs run has been a bit longer (though Pop was in SA before Belichick was in NE), and they have one more title in the same number of championship appearances. They are pretty much total parallels, depending on your view of cheating in the NFL and how much other teams broke the rules during the time SpyGate was going on, etc.

I think I give Belichick the edge by a NOSE, though I also feel that both of them are their sports' respective GOAT coaches. I think he deserves a little flack for leaving in stars to run up the score, leading to injuries like Gronk a few years ago on an extra point. Things like that are hard to justify. :lol

[Wally450]

Its easier to handle a 15 man roster than a 53 man roster and maintain constant success over 15 years.

With that said, I'll take Belichick.

[kennethgriffin]

Its easier to handle a 15 man roster than a 53 man roster and maintain constant success over 15 years.

With that said, I'll take Belichick.


you do realize in football theres an offensive coach. defensive coach. special teams coach. practice coach. replacement coach. cheerleaders coach. kicking team coach. ticket sales coach. hotdog vending coach. parking lot coach. uniform coach. football inflation coach. equipment manager. water boy. towel boy. head scout. general manager. team owner. video guy. food prep guy. media rep. sales rep. team rep. rep rep.......







and the list goes on

[dhsilv]

pop

he does more with less

a team full of 2nd round rejects, hasbeens and foreign soft little b*tches mixed with rookies... and he takes them to the finals


meanwhile belichick has Gronk and Brady both playing as well as ever with a solid team behind them


belichick can skip games and his teams dont miss a beat


if pop quit tomorrow that team would nose drive

So it's easier to win with 2nd round that 6th round? Oh do explain.....

[dhsilv]

Belichick by a million miles. He doesn't have a 1/100th the leader on the floor/field that Pop has in Duncan. He's running in a much more difficult sport where careers are shorter, dumb luck is less and just winning is harder.

Pop is a really good coach who lucked into the best GM in basketball, and a top 5 all time player who went above and beyond and made the GM's life even easier AND make the coach's life better.

Brady on his best day is no tim duncan. Duncan on his worst day is a billionaire version of Tom Brady.

[SouBeachTalents]

Belichick's head coaching record pre-Brady is surprisingly almost never mentioned. In 6 full seasons as head coach (plus the first two games of '01), Belichick's record before Brady became the starter was 41-57, with 5 of those 6 years being losing seasons. That's not even mentioning the Pats started 0-2 in '01, shades of another losing season before Bledsoe got hurt and Brady became the starter. I'm not saying he's not a good coach, but it's just surprising that his GOAT level coaching was nowhere to be found for 6 seasons before one of the GOAT QB's showed up

[dhsilv]

Belichick's head coaching record pre-Brady is surprisingly almost never mentioned. In 6 full seasons as head coach (plus the first two games of '01), Belichick's record before Brady became the starter was 41-57, with 5 of those 6 years being losing seasons. That's not even mentioning the Pats started 0-2 in '01, shades of another losing season before Bledsoe got hurt and Brady became the starter. I'm not saying he's not a good coach, but it's just surprising that his GOAT level coaching was nowhere to be found for 6 seasons before one of the GOAT QB's showed up

The fact he was part of the browns organization and went on to do ANYTHING should be make him a GOAT, lol.

Pop rose up from a Division 3 school and honestly he wasn't seen as a future NBA or College super star coach back then (grandand just did a nice piece on that I think today or yesterday).

[ScalsFan21]

Belichick by a million miles... He's running in a much more difficult sport where... dumb luck is less

Personally I'd say dumb luck is significantly more prominent in football just based on the structure of the season. How often does the best team lose in basketball? Less than half the time. Of the major 4 US team sports, the best team in the league in basketball seems to win the ship the highest % of the time.

In general I agree w/ you, but you could seriously argue that dumb luck has actually cost Belichick even MORE accolades with some of the Giants' late game bullshit heroics, dropped picks that hit top corners right in the hands, injuries (and 8 surgeries...) to a top 2-3 NFL pass catcher in Gronk in 3 of the past 4 seasons, etc.. :bowdown:

I agree Bill deserves some flack for not finding success pre-Brady, but it wasn't always smooth sailing from the get-go for Pop either. Until each was surrounded by HOF talent, neither did shit. There's only so much a coach can do, but I think Belichick takes on more responsibility than any other coach in football by a mile.

The current Belichick is possibly the highest level of coaching ever reached in football at least.

[sportjames23]

I have Belichick as the best coach in known sports history. Pop is in the top 10 of that list, though.


:biggums:

[ScalsFan21]

:biggums:

Borderline impossible to compare across eras, but is it really insane? If you're posing the question Pop vs Belichick, Pop is almost universally considered a top 4 NBA coach ever, and plenty consider him the GOAT in basketball.

If Belichick is comparable to him, it's not much of a stretch to call him at least a contender for best coach in at least the major four sports. Who are the coaches that definitively edge him out and leave him in the dust? :confusedshrug:

[sportjames23]

Borderline impossible to compare across eras, but is it really insane? If you're posing the question Pop vs Belichick, Pop is almost universally considered a top 4 NBA coach ever, and plenty consider him the GOAT in basketball.

If Belichick is comparable to him, it's not much of a stretch to call him at least a contender for best coach in at least the major four sports. Who are the coaches that definitively edge him out and leave him in the dust? :confusedshrug:


Never heard anyone outside of ISH call Pop the GOAT coach. Other media usually put Auerbach or Phil ahead of him.

And as far as football goes, Lombardi is still the guy who's considered the GOAT. Not to mention the likes of Landry, Parcells, Walsh, Noll and Shula.

[comerb]

Who you got?


Belichick and I don't think it's really even close.

[comerb]

Belichick's head coaching record pre-Brady is surprisingly almost never mentioned.


it was the Browns... and he led them to their best record since 1986.

[JimmyMcAdocious]

I dunno. Both coaches rebuilt their philosophies midcareer and arguably improved from where they were (already a championship level coach and system). Both teams have taken projects and washed-out players and revived their careers. Both coaches have benefited from, loyal, generational talents.

I'd give Belichick the nod purely because the Pats have managed to remain successful in a league of much more turnover, parity, and shorter career lifespans. Also the NFL playoffs can be a bit of a who's hot deal. I'm not convinced either of those Giants teams were better than those two Pats teams. It's more difficult to stay relevant in the NFL for a prolonged period than the NBA, imo. And lest we forget Belichick made Cassel look like a probowler. Let's not act like he hasn't had success without Brady.

[NBAplayoffs2001]

one cheated to gain a legacy.

[Gileraracer]

Pop is unmatched

[riseagainst]

Pop.

Brady made Belichick.

[GoatBoy]

PJax > Pop > Belichick

[ShawkFactory]

Pop.

Brady made Belichick.
Hate when people say this. You could say the same thing about Duncan for Pop.

[riseagainst]

Hate when people say this. You could say the same thing about Duncan for Pop.

You can that about winning championships. But in terms of their abilities as players, Duncan can get his rebounds, defense, post up play on any team.
Brady can get his touchdowns with any receivers.
Brady has achieved so much with so little. And when he got great help, look at the numbers he put up.

[ShawkFactory]

You can that about winning championships. But in terms of their abilities as players, Duncan can get his rebounds, defense, post up play on any team.
Brady can get his touchdowns with any receivers.
Brady has achieved so much with so little. And when he got great help, look at the numbers he put up.
Now yes. But the early 2000s patriots dynasty was known for their complex and ever-changing defensive schemes. Belichick was the man back then when Brady was still young.

[JohnnySic]

The NBA is a talent league. You get a player like Duncan, put the right pieces around him, and you'll be good year in and year out.

In the NFL more variables come into play. More players and positions. Its harder to stay on top. A 15 year run of excellence is unheard of. There's more parity, and its much harder to repeat. Plus, the one-and-done playoff format.

Belichick >

[Sarcastic]

The NBA is a talent league. You get a player like Duncan, put the right pieces around him, and you'll be good year in and year out.

In the NFL more variables come into play. More players and positions. Its harder to stay on top. A 15 year run of excellence is unheard of. There's more parity, and its much harder to repeat. Plus, the one-and-done playoff format.

Belichick >

We gonna forget about the Tuck rule, or Belichick taping practices before the SB?

Belichick benefitted from the one and done format, and "lucky play" which supposedly helped the Giants, too.

[riseagainst]

We gonna forget about the Tuck rule, or Belichick taping practices before the SB?

Belichick benefitted from the one and done format, and "lucky play" which supposedly helped the Giants, too.

both of the lucky plays....

[Kobe_6/8]

Phil Jackson. Pop doesn't give you minutes unless you kiss his ass.

[DavisIsMyUniBro]

Fergie kicks both of their shenayays at the same time

[dhsilv]

Personally I'd say dumb luck is significantly more prominent in football just based on the structure of the season. How often does the best team lose in basketball? Less than half the time. Of the major 4 US team sports, the best team in the league in basketball seems to win the ship the highest % of the time.

In general I agree w/ you, but you could seriously argue that dumb luck has actually cost Belichick even MORE accolades with some of the Giants' late game bullshit heroics, dropped picks that hit top corners right in the hands, injuries (and 8 surgeries...) to a top 2-3 NFL pass catcher in Gronk in 3 of the past 4 seasons, etc.. :bowdown:

I agree Bill deserves some flack for not finding success pre-Brady, but it wasn't always smooth sailing from the get-go for Pop either. Until each was surrounded by HOF talent, neither did shit. There's only so much a coach can do, but I think Belichick takes on more responsibility than any other coach in football by a mile.

The current Belichick is possibly the highest level of coaching ever reached in football at least.

Yeah I was drinking when I wrote that, the dumb luck comment was related to the NFL.

[dhsilv]

I dunno. Both coaches rebuilt their philosophies midcareer and arguably improved from where they were (already a championship level coach and system). Both teams have taken projects and washed-out players and revived their careers. Both coaches have benefited from, loyal, generational talents.

I'd give Belichick the nod purely because the Pats have managed to remain successful in a league of much more turnover, parity, and shorter career lifespans. Also the NFL playoffs can be a bit of a who's hot deal. I'm not convinced either of those Giants teams were better than those two Pats teams. It's more difficult to stay relevant in the NFL for a prolonged period than the NBA, imo. And lest we forget Belichick made Cassel look like a probowler. Let's not act like he hasn't had success without Brady.

Lets give Randy Moss a BIT of credit for Cassel...