Most athletic bigs ever?

[ClipperRevival]

In terms of sheer explosion and vertical, I would say Howard. I marvel at this guy and what he can do.

In terms of most well rounded (combination of explosion, quickness, coordination, fluidity, vertical) I would say Robinson.

In terms of most agile, fluidity of movement and light feet, I would say Hakeem. He was the most rubber bandy big ever, just so fluid and could contort his body in ways that no big could ever do.

[GIF REACTION]

Lebron

[KevinNYC]

Probably need to include Russell and Wilt up there.

Russell suppossedly took missed a layup and went out of bounds, then chased down a guy at halfcourt to block his shot to save a playoff game.

Tommy Heinsohn said it was the most amazing play he's ever seen. Russell drives and misses his shot and goes out of bounds. The other team rebounds and outlets to a guy already at half court with no one close to him. Russell recovers and and races from a few feet out of bounds to the other basket to block the shot.

[sundizz]

Athletic = Speed + Vert + Agility + Strength + Power (Explosiveness)

1. Shaq
2. Wilt
3. Robinson
4. Dwight
5. Who knows? DeAndre? Javale?

[ClipperRevival]

Probably need to include Russell and Wilt up there.

Russell suppossedly took missed a layup and went out of bounds, then chased down a guy at halfcourt to block his shot to save a playoff game.

Tommy Heinsohn said it was the most amazing play he's ever seen. Russell drives and misses his shot and goes out of bounds. The other team rebounds and outlets to a guy already at half court with no one close to him. Russell recovers and and races from a few feet out of bounds to the other basket to block the shot.

No doubt. I'm just not going to include players I never saw live. It's not fair to them.

But check out this video of Russell jumping over a guy. Few bigs could ever be that fast and coordinated.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2AlFrOj5Mc

[ClipperRevival]

Athletic = Speed + Vert + Agility + Strength + Power (Explosiveness)

1. Shaq
2. Wilt
3. Robinson
4. Dwight
5. Who knows? DeAndre? Javale?

Disagree. It also includes reflexes, coordination, fluidity of movement (sort of like agility), quickness and light feet. It's pretty much possessing traits you can't teach.

Your definition is limited to what may be described as track & field type traits. But basketball isn't played in a straight line. You are constantly changing directions, planting and exploding, stop and go, etc. And the traits I mentioned play a big part in that.

[ClipperRevival]

I did forget Shaq. For a guy his size, the game has never seen a guy that athletic. Truly freakish.

[DonDadda59]

Shaq.

To be 7'1" upwards of 350 lbs and be that strong, explosive, agile/quick... We'll probably never see another player like that again. Maybe 40-50 years from now another one will come along.

[GIF REACTION]

Lebron

To be 6-8 upwards of 270 pounds and be that strong, explosive, agile/quick.... We'll probably never see another player like that again. Maybe 40-50 years from now another one will come along.

[sundizz]

Disagree. It also includes reflexes, coordination, fluidity of movement (sort of like agility), quickness and light feet. It's pretty much possessing traits you can't teach.

Your definition is limited to what may be described as track & field type traits. But basketball isn't played in a straight line. You are constantly changing directions, planting and exploding, stop and go, etc. And the traits I mentioned play a big part in that.

You disagree but didn't name any different players? All those players (except Wilt) have that ability to change directions, plant, explode, stop and go (Shaq being the best at it and Dwight being the worst). They all had amazing body control. It is why they are "more" athletic than someone like a Javale or DeAndre.

[DonDadda59]

Lebron

To be 6-8 upwards of 270 pounds and be that strong, explosive, agile/quick.... We'll probably never see another player like that again. Maybe 40-50 years from now another one will come along.

Andre Iguodala III licking his chops. http://i.imgur.com/zcOwpWz.png

[ClipperRevival]

You disagree but didn't name any different players? All those players (except Wilt) have that ability to change directions, plant, explode, stop and go (Shaq being the best at it and Dwight being the worst). They all had amazing body control. It is why they are "more" athletic than someone like a Javale or DeAndre.

I disagree in that all of these bigs have different physical traits that define their athleticism. They aren't all the same. "Athleticism" can mean a lot of things.

[ClipperRevival]

Shaq.

To be 7'1" upwards of 350 lbs and be that strong, explosive, agile/quick... We'll probably never see another player like that again. Maybe 40-50 years from now another one will come along.

Maybe ever. He might've truly been one of the kind.

[JohnnySic]

Shaq, Shawn Kemp.

Howard?

[GIF REACTION]

Dude who played for Cleveland in the 80's/90's

[ClipperRevival]

People need to appreciate just how physically special Dwight Howard is. His dunks at the slam dunk contests were out of this world. Some people might discredit them because they looked so easy but it's just a credit to how freakish he was. Like him dunking on that 11 foot rim with ease. I mean with EASE. Or putting up that sticker way up in the backboard with relative ease. It's these things that tell you just how freakish this guy was. When you can do something amazing look so easy.

[GIF REACTION]

Larry Nance

[DonDadda59]

Dude who played for Cleveland in the 80's/90's

Brad Daugherty (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Si34lCbYRVM)? Skilled as phuck but not very athletic?

Larry Nance (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cM08OJwRDgg) maybe? :confusedshrug:


People need to appreciate just how physically special Dwight Howard is. His dunks at the slam dunk contests were out of this world. Some people might discredit them because they looked so easy but it's just a credit to how freakish he was. Like him dunking on that 11 foot rim with ease. I mean with EASE. Or putting up that sticker way up in the backboard with relative ease. It's these things that tell you just how freakish this guy was. When you can do something amazing look so easy.

Howard = David Robinson athleticism with LeBron James skills.

[sdot_thadon]

No love for the admiral?

[ClipperRevival]

No love for the admiral?

Mentioned in my OP. To me, he's the most well rounded, athletic big ever. He had the coordination, reflexes, light feet and quickness of a guy about 6'7".

[f0und]

wilt

he was a multisport athlete. stories from the terminator himself talked about how strong he was. and in some of those old rare wilt videos, his acceleration and speed is simply insane.

[Megabox!]

Shaq, young Shaq was a monster. That dunk on the Admiral in the All-star game was disgusting

[jayfan]

Hakeem Olajuwon.

May be the most athletically skilled big ever.




:coleman: at these top 5 lists without him even on it.



.

[Rake2204]

Only came into this thread because of my David Robinson bias.

I was a fan of his in the 90's (elementary school during his prime) and didn't realize how much of a stunning athlete he was until I began looking back on clips as an adult. I guess I just thought it was standard back then.

I try to picture any other 7'1'' centers going to coast-to-coast on Michael Jordan like this. Great mix of handles and unrealistic speed (even Hakeem was a slap dribbler in the open court for a good portion of his career): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKVqpXl3M18

Jogging then easily matching Lindsey Hunter's speed for chasedown block: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ok-poFqbtE

I'm easily wowed because he's my guy, but even watching him fill the lanes with nothing happening is fun for me to watch (sprinting to catch up with Rod Strickland): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dm91_OYoKzQ

There's many realms of athleticism, but Robinson may have had the most boxes checked among centers I've seen in my life. It probably helps that he was relatively "small" before beginning in college (supposedly grew at least five inches at Navy).

His leaping ability, speed, agility, and dexterity created a heck of a combination. He was also a former gymnast capable of walking on his hands at least half the length of an NBA basketball court.

[Sakkreth]

In terms of sheer explosion and vertical, I would say Howard. I marvel at this guy and what he can do.

In terms of most well rounded (combination of explosion, quickness, coordination, fluidity, vertical) I would say Robinson.

In terms of most agile, fluidity of movement and light feet, I would say Hakeem. He was the most rubber bandy big ever, just so fluid and could contort his body in ways that no big could ever do.

1986 Sabonis takes down BOTH Hakeem and Robinson in both categories you have mentioned.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAqUQpROBfU
Unfair.

[kshutts1]

When OP said "bigs" did you really mean centers?

Because if you meant big men (PF and C), then you should include McDyess, Griffin, KG and a host of others.

[Dr Seuss]

People need to appreciate just how physically special Dwight Howard is. His dunks at the slam dunk contests were out of this world. Some people might discredit them because they looked so easy but it's just a credit to how freakish he was. Like him dunking on that 11 foot rim with ease. I mean with EASE. Or putting up that sticker way up in the backboard with relative ease. It's these things that tell you just how freakish this guy was. When you can do something amazing look so easy.

however, he certainly lacks that "fluidity" that you seem to always cream your pants over.

[ClipperRevival]

When OP said "bigs" did you really mean centers?

Because if you meant big men (PF and C), then you should include McDyess, Griffin, KG and a host of others.

Yeah, limiting it to mostly C because if we included 4s, this list gets REALLY long.

[Rake2204]

1986 Sabonis takes down BOTH Hakeem and Robinson in both categories you have mentioned.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAqUQpROBfU
Unfair.I'd respectfully disagree, unless you were being sarcastic.

Arvydas Sabonis was wonderfully skilled in the game of basketball and could succeed against both Robinson and Olajuwon. But in reference to categories such as explosion, quickness, coordination, fluidity, vertical, I believe Sabonis ranks multiple steps below Robinson in particular, even during Arvydas' healthy years.

I believe a healthy Sabonis would have been left in the dust in a flat footrace between himself and Robinson. I believe the same goes for the first step. That doesn't mean Sabonis couldn't compensate by anticipating Robinson's movements and playing angles correctly (as Sabonis did against Robinson in Olympic play). I speak only as a straight athletic comparison.

Moreover, even in '86, Sabonis' vertical wasn't stellar. He was a 7'3'' man doing beast things with great skill, but he wasn't jumping like Dwight Howard.

I could see a case for coordination, though I'm not sure I see anything that clearly ranks Sabonis over Robinson and Olajuwon in that regard. Sabonis had some better abilities (passing, for instance) but I don't know if it was simply due to an advance in coordination, or just a result of vision and ability to execute.

Of course, again, if your post was just a sarcastic means of mocking the elaborate nature of Sabonis mythologists, then I clearly missed the point.

[ClipperRevival]

however, he certainly lacks that "fluidity" that you seem to always cream your pants over.

True. I'm speaking strictly about his explosion and vertical off the ground.

[jayfan]

1986 Sabonis takes down BOTH Hakeem and Robinson in both categories you have mentioned.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAqUQpROBfU
Unfair.

I see an elite basketball player, but not necessarily an elite athlete.

[Sakkreth]

I'd respectfully disagree, unless you were being sarcastic.

Arvydas Sabonis was wonderfully skilled in the game of basketball and could succeed against both Robinson and Olajuwon. But in reference to categories such as explosion, quickness, coordination, fluidity, vertical, I believe Sabonis ranks multiple steps below Robinson in particular, even during Arvydas' healthy years.

I believe a healthy Sabonis would have been left in the dust in a flat footrace between himself and Robinson. I believe the same goes for the first step. That doesn't mean Sabonis couldn't compensate by anticipating Robinson's movements and playing angles correctly (as Sabonis did against Robinson in Olympic play). I speak only as a straight athletic comparison.

Moreover, even in '86, Sabonis' vertical wasn't stellar. He was a 7'3'' man doing beast things with great skill, but he wasn't jumping like Dwight Howard.

I could see a case for coordination, though I'm not sure I see anything that clearly ranks Sabonis over Robinson and Olajuwon in that regard. Sabonis had better abilities (passing, for instance) but I don't know if it was simply due to an advance in coordination, or just a result of vision and ability to execute.

Of course, again, if your post was just a sarcastic means of mocking the elaborate nature of Sabonis mythologists, then I clearly missed the point.

There is lack of Sabonis footage sure, but look at the video I posted. I think it proves that Sabonis at the very least could be considered of what I claimed in my last post.

[ClipperRevival]

Hakeem Olajuwon.

May be the most athletically skilled big ever.




:coleman: at these top 5 lists without him even on it.



.

By far my favorite C of all time. No big ever had his lower body fluidity from the waist down. The off the charts quickness, agility, light feet, coordination and ability to contort and twist his body with such ease.

[Rake2204]

There is lack of Sabonis footage sure, but look at the video I posted. I think it proves that Sabonis at the very least could be considered of what I claimed in my last post.I should have said this before, but I composed my post only after watching the clip you shared in full. As Jayfan put it (much more succinctly), I saw a lot of elite skills and abilities, but not necessarily elite athleticism.

Sabonis' pre-injury vertical never appeared to be extraordinary, his lateral quickness is okay though not stellar, and end-to-end he isn't particularly swift. He may have been pretty athletic for a giant, full-bodied 7'3'' behemoth with plodding feet, but guys like Howard, Robinson, and Olajuwon were athletic marvels in comparison to anybody, not just giants their own size.

Sabonis was athletic, but suggesting he takes down Olajuwon and Robinson when it comes to speed, quickness, vertical, explosion and agility does not seem to have a lot of basis in truth, in my opinion.

[feyki]

5Shaq

4 Bill Russell

3 Kareem

2 Wilt

1 Ralh Sampson

[pauk]

If Russell qualifies as a big guy (which i think he does) then does Lebron qualify to? Russell was 6'9"ish & 215 lbs... like Lebron essentially, minus ~50 pounds.

http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1100470!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/gallery_1200/lebron-james-miami-heat-win-nba-title.jpg
http://cdn.fansided.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/279/files/2014/02/7446278.jpg
http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1204303/images/o-BILL-RUSSELL-facebook.jpg

[SHAQisGOAT]

Shaq, Wilt, Robinson, Chuck, Kemp, Dawkins, Nance, Dwight, Sampson, Russell...

[SHAQisGOAT]

If Russell qualifies as a big guy (which i think he does) then does Lebron qualify to? Russell was 6'9"ish & 215 lbs... like Lebron essentially, minus ~50 pounds.


LeBron's not even 6'8 without shoes... But anyways, Russell played center and went against the likes of Wilt, Bellamy, Thurmond, Imhoff, Unseld... James is a SF who on offense even plays a lot like a PG, this is not comparable, don't be bringing up size and shit... For example, Rodman was shorter than Magic, and who do you classify as being a 'big'? Or how about between Barkley and Bird?

So just shut your lying ass with them stupid remarks and whatnot. Also, next time post smaller pictures, please.

[Dr Hawk]

Shaq, Wilt, Robinson, Chuck, Kemp, Dawkins, Nance, Dwight, Sampson, Russell...

Just to add one more, Gilmore.

[Fallen Angel]

Dwight was 6'9" to 6'10" during his athletic peak. I'm sure you can find some elite athletes at 7'0".

[gyu]

http://www.nba.com/media/suns/amare_candy_1024.jpg

Wasn't that fluid, but boy was he explosive as hell back in the day.

[kshutts1]

Olowokandi was never that athletic to me.

[DavisIsMyUniBro]

pure athleticism

Wilt and Russell

"basketball" athleticism

Shaq is in the discussion because what he could do with his weight

Dwight has a lot of pure athleticism as well. though his max vert reach wasnt higher than Shaq in his orlando years.
(obviously shaq was taller, but at his weight...)

[3ball]

:rolleyes:

[kshutts1]

Wrong thread, 3ball.

[3ball]

.
Today's best and most efficient bigs on the post today and in 1996 were:

Cousins.................... Hakeem
Aldridge................... Shaq
Griffin...................... Robinson
Davis....................... Ewing
Love........................ Sabonis
Valcunious................ Karl Malone
Al Jefferson.............. Barkley
Dwight Howard......... Webber
.............................. Kemp
.............................. Rik Smit
.............................. Dino Radja
.............................. Vin Baker
.............................. Derrick Coleman


Since the post efficiency of today's best bigs (the guys on the left) are all in the vicinity of the elite standard of 1.00 PPP, we know that the vastly superior bigs of previous eras (on the right) would run roughshod over today's soft-ass, spaced-out league, where help defenders are coming from a further distance (that's the definition of spacing).

The reality is that the media has perpetrated a massive lie by saying today's defenses took away post play... It's a mathematical fact that without 3-pointers, the efficiency of screen rolls/drive-and-kick plummets and becomes not worthwhile compared to post-ups.. This proves that the decline in post-ups is due to higher efficiency drive-and-kick made possible by 3-pointers, not defensive tactics.. In the absence of 3-pointers, no amount of defensive strategy could prevent post-ups from supplanting drive-and-kick.

Since post-ups, mid-range, off-ball and isolations were the only things left in the 80's without the 3-pointers needed to make drive-and-kick back worthwhile, we can say with certainty that Lebron would be half the player back then - he's simply not elite in any of these areas.

[DavisIsMyUniBro]

Today's best and most efficient bigs on the post are:

Cousins.................... Hakeem
Aldridge................... Shaq
Griffin...................... Robinson
Davis....................... Ewing
Love........................ Sabonis
Valcunious................ Karl Malone
Al Jefferson.............. Barkley
Dwight Howard......... Webber
.............................. Kemp
.............................. Rik Smit
.............................. Dino Radja
.............................. Vin Baker
.............................. Derrick Coleman


Since the post efficiency of today's best bigs (the guys on the left) are all in the vicinity of the elite standard of 1.00 PPP, we know that the vastly superior bigs of previous eras (on the left) would run roughshod over today's soft-ass, spaced-out league, where help defenders are coming from a further distance (that's the definition of spacing).

The reality is that the media has perpetrated a massive lie by saying today's defenses took away post play... It's a mathematical fact that without 3-pointers, the efficiency of screen rolls/drive-and-kick plummets and becomes not worthwhile compared to post-ups.. This proves that the decline in post-ups is due to higher efficiency drive-and-kick made possible by 3-pointers, not defensive tactics.. In the absence of 3-pointers, no amount of defensive strategy could prevent post-ups from supplanting drive-and-kick.

Since post-ups, mid-range, off-ball and isolations were the only things left in the 80's without the 3-pointers needed to make drive-and-kick back worthwhile, we can say with certainty that Lebron would be half the player back then - he's simply not elite in any of these areas.

However, these bigs are a fraction of the bigs in previous eras - just compare to 1996 - today's bigs are a joke:

So... do you mean most effecient post players? or biggest names?

Because im preeeetty sure you just went with biggest names.



BACK ON TOPIC:

Davis actually is pretty athletic too I guess (homerism lol). he has a 35.5+ inch vertical, is 253 pounds now (he said he was more explosive, so thats why I added teh plus. also, he looks much more athletic now compared to his rookie year) and reportedly tied with Tyreke in a sprint

Robinson was ridiculously athletic

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=308384

On the bottom, Cavs calculated DROB's sprint speed, with the ball. it was ridiculous. comparable to Wilts and Russells tbh. possibly even higher.

[3ball]

So... do you mean most effecient post players? or biggest names?

Because im preeeetty sure you just went with biggest names.


I went with both - Valcunious, Al Jefferson and Love lead today's NBA in post efficiency, while Davis, Cousins and the like are the "names"... Regardless, previous era bigs destroy today's... It's laughable:

Cousins.................... Hakeem
Aldridge................... Shaq
Griffin...................... Ewing
Davis....................... Robinson
Love........................ Sabonis
Valcunious................ Karl Malone
Al Jefferson.............. Barkley
Dwight Howard......... Webber
.............................. Kemp
.............................. Rik Smit
.............................. Dino Radja
.............................. Vin Baker
.............................. Derrick Coleman


Since the post efficiency of today's best bigs (the guys on the left) are all in the vicinity of the elite standard of 1.00 PPP, we know that the vastly superior bigs of previous eras (on the right) would run roughshod over today's soft-ass, spaced-out league, where help defenders are coming from a further distance (that's the definition of spacing).

The reality is that the media has perpetrated a massive lie by saying today's defenses took away post play... It's a mathematical fact that without 3-pointers, the efficiency of screen rolls/drive-and-kick plummets and becomes not worthwhile compared to post-ups.. This proves that the decline in post-ups is due to higher efficiency drive-and-kick made possible by 3-pointers, not defensive tactics.. In the absence of 3-pointers, no amount of defensive strategy could prevent post-ups from supplanting drive-and-kick.

Since post-ups, mid-range, off-ball and isolations were the only things left in the 80's without the 3-pointers needed to make drive-and-kick back worthwhile, we can say with certainty that Lebron would be half the player back then - he's simply not elite in any of these areas.

[dhsilv]

In terms of sheer explosion and vertical, I would say Howard. I marvel at this guy and what he can do.

In terms of most well rounded (combination of explosion, quickness, coordination, fluidity, vertical) I would say Robinson.

In terms of most agile, fluidity of movement and light feet, I would say Hakeem. He was the most rubber bandy big ever, just so fluid and could contort his body in ways that no big could ever do.

So where does a KG and Davis fit on this? Both imo are more agile than Hakeem but don't play as much post play. They are also extremely explosive, perhaps not vertically but laterally. Howard's STRENGTH which you left off (really???????) was what made his explosive powers so dominating. Strength is also what made Shaq so amazing. Strength for bigs is maybe the most important aspect assuming no horrible flaws.

[dhsilv]

1986 Sabonis takes down BOTH Hakeem and Robinson in both categories you have mentioned.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAqUQpROBfU
Unfair.

His magic (he was athletic as ****) was his hands. He just had those magical hands and perfect touch which imo are not athletic skills but basketball skills.

[dhsilv]

If Russell qualifies as a big guy (which i think he does) then does Lebron qualify to? Russell was 6'9"ish & 215 lbs... like Lebron essentially, minus ~50 pounds.



Russel has shrunk at 70...so he was taller in his day, just wanted this on record here. No opinion....lebron is kinda a big but not reallY?

[feyki]

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-t_L-xkeEUZA/U49aZJs05yI/AAAAAAAAFL0/i2eKEysFLF4/s800/kareemjump.jpg

[ClipperRevival]

So where does a KG and Davis fit on this? Both imo are more agile than Hakeem but don't play as much post play. They are also extremely explosive, perhaps not vertically but laterally. Howard's STRENGTH which you left off (really???????) was what made his explosive powers so dominating. Strength is also what made Shaq so amazing. Strength for bigs is maybe the most important aspect assuming no horrible flaws.

I was trying to limit it to C but since both anchor a D and can protect the rim, they should count too. If someone said to me that KG was the most well rounded athletic "big" ever, I would have no problem with it. Both KG and AD had perfect basketball bodies. Tall, long, lanky and the coordination, fluidity of movmement and athleticism of guys much smaller.

And you are so correct about Howard's strength. The guy moves guys in the post and is just so naturally strong.

[Cold soul]

Wilt
Shaq
Robertson