538's rankings show MJ won 2 rings with worse casts than Lebron's winning teams

[3ball]

The list shows that MJ won twice with a worse supporting cast (1991 and 1993) than Lebron's 2012 and 2013 teams.. The list proves MJ was capable of winning with less.


https://espnfivethirtyeight.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/paine-datalab-lebron-cast-2.png


But don't feel bad Lebron fans - the list is complete garbage... Magic and Bird had the most talented supporting casts of all time... How could they be behind Shaq's 2000, Hakeem's 1995, MJ's 2nd three-peat, Gary Payton's and Chauncey's cast?

Looking at the list, it appears to show which teams' role players showed the best teamwork and essentially outperformed what role players typically do... With Magic and Bird's teams, they had very few normal role players - they had juggernauts at every position, so the superior production they got from their great players weren't overperforming what great players normally do.

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[GIF REACTION]

It's relative to the opponent in the finals you moron

Lebron beat the 2nd best supporting cast of all time, with a supporting cast worse than the supporting cast Jordan beat in 1993

[GIF REACTION]

Not to mention that the 1991 Lakers had multiple injuries in the finals, hence bringing down their actual rating

[3ball]

It's relative to the opponent in the finals you moron

Lebron beat the 2nd best supporting cast of all time, with a supporting cast worse than the supporting cast Jordan beat in 1993


Learn to read - the list says that MJ's 1991 and 1993 casts were worse than both of Lebron's winning teams in 2012 and 2013 - look at the list - that's what it says.. So based on this list, MJ won with less than Lebron ever did - period.

Also, re-read the TITLE of the list - the list is based on the supporting cast's actual statistical performance through the conference finals of each season in question.

It's a good thing it doesn't include their Finals performance, because MJ got the worst Finals performances from Pippen and Rodman during his 2nd three-peat... They were horrible - Pippen averaged 15 ppg on 34% shooting in 1996 Finals and the same in 1998 Finals - this is the worst ever for a 2nd option, bar none.. Meanwhile Rodman averaged 3/8 in the playoffs and Finals... ugh

[GIF REACTION]

Incorrect

Chris Bosh and Dwyane Wade in 2013 are the worst supporting duo in history

Bosh scored 0 points in Game 7

[SouBeachTalents]

Learn to read - the list says that MJ's 1991 and 1993 casts were worse than both of Lebron's winning teams in 2012 and 2013 - look at the list - that's what it says.. So based on this list, MJ won with less than Lebron ever did - period.

Also, re-read the TITLE of the list - the list is based on the supporting cast's actual statistical performance through the conference finals of each season in question.

It's a good thing it doesn't include their Finals performance, because MJ got the worst Finals performances from Pippen and Rodman during his 2nd three-peat... They were horrible - Pippen averaged 15 ppg on 34% shooting in 1996 Finals and the same in 1998 Finals - this is the worst ever for a 2nd option, bar none.. Meanwhile Rodman averaged 3/8 in the playoffs and Finals... ugh

So bad they were both getting shout outs for Finals MVP

http://www.nytimes.com/1996/06/08/sports/nba-finals-once-again-rodman-is-most-valuable-bull.html
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1996-06-17/sports/9606170154_1_dennis-rodman-bulls-crowning-moment
http://www.petemyersrules.com/2011/08/rodmans-mvp.html
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1998-06-11/sports/9806110398_1_scottie-pippen-bulls-karl-malone
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/635114/What-about-Pippen-for-NBA-Finals-MVP.html?pg=all

[imnew09]

no Sh**


Lebron had peak Wade/Bosh and GOAT 3pointer Ray

[feyki]

I don't like "talent rating" numbers . 2011 Lebron more talented than 95 Hakeem,03 Duncan , 93 Jordan ?

But "teammate ratings" looks good.

Lebrons's b2b champs > Jordan's second 3peat

Jordan's first 3peat >>>> Lebron's b2b champs

[ShawkFactory]

They also show that Mike had some of the best supporting casts of all time. Something you argue against constantly.

So...thread backfire.

[dubeta]

I showed this image to 3ball last night


And he spent the whole night trying to come up with an argument to spin this to MJ's advantage :lol





3ball officially SHOOK

[3ball]

They also show that Mike had some of the best supporting casts of all time. Something you argue against constantly.

So...thread backfire.


Not at all - the list shows that MJ won with less in 1991 and 1993 than Lebron ever did, which is what I've been saying all along - MJ was capable of winning with less, and this list proves it.

And I've already shown that MJ's 1989 playoff run was more of a 1-man show (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11650980&postcount=44) than Lebron's 2009 and 2010 teams.

So I've been right all along - MJ was capable of winning with less - it's clear-cut and obvious

[ShawkFactory]

Yea...wild deflection.

Just pointing out the flaw in you using this figure as your argument. Because it shows something you argue against all the time.

Whatevs doe

[dubeta]

Shouldve expected that 1996 Bulls to be at the top of this list


Jordan had the WOAT playoff series in NBA History (rookie 18 year old LeBron would have done better - this is a fact, he did better against Payton) and the Bulls still won in 6, best cast in NBA History





Take Jordan out of that 1996 Bulls team, and they win in 5 instead of 6

[SouBeachTalents]

Shouldve expected that 1996 Bulls to be at the top of this list


Jordan had the WOAT playoff series in NBA History (rookie 18 year old LeBron would have done better - this is a fact, he did better against Payton) and the Bulls still won in 6, best cast in NBA History





Take Jordan out of that 1996 Bulls team, and they win in 5 instead of 6

:lol That's still easily better than some of LeBron's Finals ('07 & '11)

[3ball]

:facepalm

[3ball]

Yea...wild deflection.



You're deflecting from the title of the thread - MJ WON WITH LESS - that's the topic of the thread.

But you want to deflect this fact and say he also won with more - MJ just has too many rings to choose from - he won regardless of how little talent he had..

MJ's a 6/6 winner, and Lebron's 2/6 loser.
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[lil jahlil]

Another 'no shit' thread from the OP.

[3ball]

Another 'no shit' thread from the OP.


I know - I'm just schooling these young fans.

Unlike Lebron, MJ won regardless of how little talent he had... And he won with less than Lebron ever did.

MJ didn't need as much to win.. :confusedshrug:

[ShawkFactory]

You're deflecting from the title of the thread - MJ WON WITH LESS - that's the topic of the thread.

But you want to deflect this fact and say he also won with more - MJ just has too many rings to choose from - he won regardless of how little talent he had..

MJ's a 6/6 winner, and Lebron's 2/6 loser.
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Yea, and the evidence for the topic is flawed. Given who's presenting said evidence.

My point.

[3ball]

Yea, and the evidence for the topic is flawed. Given who's presenting said evidence.

My point.


I agree.. The 538 rankings of supporting casts is complete bullshit, as I said in the OP.

But you guys use this data to support Lebron's case all the time.. So I just wanted to point out that the data shows MJ won twice with a weaker supporting cast than Lebron ever has.

[ShawkFactory]

I agree.. The 538 rankings of supporting casts is complete bullshit, as I said in the OP.

But you guys use this data to support Lebron's case all the time.. So I just wanted to point out that the data shows MJ won twice with a weaker supporting cast than Lebron ever has.
You guys? I don't think I've ever once done that? Feel free to show me if I have I drink a fair amount