Is Kobe the most overrated defender of all time?

[GIF REACTION]

He has never finished in the top 5 voting for DPOY, unlike Lebron who has placed 2nd twice. Also his defensive impact numbers/advanced stats are really weak, almost displaying a negative impact

IMO he was a good but not great defender. Good man to man, but lacked team principles. He doesn't have too many noticeable shutdown jobs like a Lebron has (Derrick Rose 2011, Tony Parker 2013, etc)

IMO Kobe is a third team level all time defender while Lebron is a first/second teamer

[dubeta]

Stop it! He's not, he's a legendary man-to man defender, whos actually slightly underrated on defense


His ability to guard perimter scorers, and limit them is what makes him special.


A true 2-way threat



Here's the proof:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogrLrD6_8-o

[kennethgriffin]

tied for the all time record with 9 1st team all defensive awards


nobody ever really mentions him among the all time great defenders.


they talk sh*t all the time cause his last award was off reputation in 2011 and his 2nd team all defensive award in 2012 was also off reputation

so people discount all the times he was legit the best or 2nd best defensive guard in the nba


which falls under the category of UNDERRATED

[ScalsFan21]

Kobe was a very good defender at his best. Was he 9-time all defensive great? No, I don't think so.

Most overrated defender of all time? Maybe in terms of awards but not in reality. No one lavishes him with "lockdown defender" type praise, at least that I've seen. He wasn't consistent enough defensively throughout his career to deserve that many first-team nods IMO.

[20Four]

He has never finished in the top 5 voting for DPOY, unlike Lebron who has placed 2nd twice. Also his defensive impact numbers/advanced stats are really weak, almost displaying a negative impact

IMO he was a good but not great defender. Good man to man, but lacked team principles. He doesn't have too many noticeable shutdown jobs like a Lebron has (Derrick Rose 2011, Tony Parker 2013, etc)

IMO Kobe is a third team level all time defender while Lebron is a first/second teamer

Big leBRONZE fan here, but even I think leBRONZE has no defense at all...

http://i.imgur.com/ThvNAqD.gif

http://i.imgur.com/0OLGkqW.gif

[kennethgriffin]

Kobe was a very good defender at his best. Was he 9-time all defensive great? No, I don't think so.

Most overrated defender of all time? Maybe in terms of awards but not in reality. No one lavishes him with "lockdown defender" type praise, at least that I've seen. He wasn't consistent enough defensively throughout his career to deserve that many first-team nods IMO.



all of kobes all defensive teams were legit up until 2011


people say "kobe coasted of his legendary defensive rep and got free awards in 2011 and 2012"


phil jackson even said so


well in order to coast off rep you have to have the rep to begin with




as for lebron... hes already missing out on 1st team all defensive awards at age 30

[GIF REACTION]

all of kobes all defensive teams were legit up until 2011


people say "kobe coasted of his legendary defensive rep and got free awards in 2011 and 2012"


phil jackson even said so


well in order to coast off rep you have to have the rep to begin with




as for lebron... hes already missing out on 1st team all defensive awards at age 30Yet he has 2 DPOY runner ups and Kobe could never even crack top 5

[dubeta]

all of kobes all defensive teams were legit up until 2011


people say "kobe coasted of his legendary defensive rep and got free awards in 2011 and 2012"


phil jackson even said so


well in order to coast off rep you have to have the rep to begin with




as for lebron... hes already missing out on 1st team all defensive awards at age 30


LOL are you seriously trying to compare getting 1st team defense from the Forward spot instead of the Guard spot? :oldlol:


Kobe's competition - Chris Paul and Rondo


LeBrons - Artest, Garnett, Duncan, Ibaka, Kirelenko, Bruce Bowen, Kahwi Leonard, Paul George, Battier etc


Its literally twice as hard to get it in the forward spot

[GIF REACTION]

LOL are you seriously trying to compare getting 1st team defense from the Forward spot instead of the Guard spot? :oldlol:


Kobe's competition - Chris Paul and Rondo


LeBrons - Artest, Garnett, Duncan, Ibaka, Kirelenko, Bruce Bowen, Kahwi Leonard, Paul George, Battier etc


Its literally twice as hard to get it in the forward spot
Which makes it even more amazing he has 2 DPOY runner ups

[ScalsFan21]

Which makes it even more amazing he has 2 DPOY runner ups

He probably should've beaten Gasol, but I do think the center position has an inherent advantage going into it since so many teams have gone away from the "rim protector".

[Hit_Em]

Stop it! He's not, he's a legendary man-to man defender, whos actually slightly underrated on defense


His ability to guard perimter scorers, and limit them is what makes him special.


A true 2-way threat



Here's the proof:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogrLrD6_8-o
http://i.imgur.com/mLhxvFN.gif

[Mike Armstrong]

Yarp.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Yet he has 2 DPOY runner ups and Kobe could never even crack top 5

http://media.giphy.com/media/IBFjeoZ5Oewhi/giphy-downsized-large.gif

#5 in DPOY voting in 2000
#3 in DPOY voting in 2002, thats in the GOAT defensive era and he was behind Big Ben and KG two of the top 5 defenders EVER
#5 in 2008, Bran wasnt even top 20 that year or the year before. But his stacked defensive supporting cast and rebounding did work in playoffs:applause: :applause:

Big Bran fan but Kobe is the better, more impactful defensive player and offensive player. You started watching ball in the 2010s so I dont expect your low IQ/experience to know this.

[ScalsFan21]

http://media.giphy.com/media/IBFjeoZ5Oewhi/giphy-downsized-large.gif

#5 in DPOY voting in 2000
#3 in DPOY voting in 2002, thats in the GOAT defensive era and he was behind Big Ben and KG two of the top 5 defenders EVER
#5 in 2008, Bran wasnt even top 20 that year or the year before. But his stacked defensive supporting cast and rebounding did work in playoffs:applause: :applause:

Big Bran fan but Kobe is the better, more impactful defensive player and offensive player. You started watching ball in the 2010s so I dont expect your low IQ/experience to know this.

I'm so torn about the fact that you just used that gif expertly, but while making a bad point claiming Kobe is the more impactful player. Big Avon and Kobe stan here, so you know I'm speaking the truth.

[Akrazotile]

Kobe was a very good defender at his best. Was he 9-time all defensive great? No, I don't think so.

Most overrated defender of all time? Maybe in terms of awards but not in reality. No one lavishes him with "lockdown defender" type praise, at least that I've seen. He wasn't consistent enough defensively throughout his career to deserve that many first-team nods IMO.


There are very few people who get that praise that dont deserve it. Bowen, Rodman, Artest, Wallace, Howard, Iguodala, Russell, Duncan, Pippen etc etc all are legit all-time defenders.

A lot of people do give Kobe more credit than he deserves for dfense simply bc he made teams based on reputation. Guards like Wade, Cp3, Baron Davis, Hinrich, Ginobili, Billups, Raja Bell, Sefalosha, etc etc have always been better defensively than Kobe. There was never a time when Kobe was a top-2 defensive guard. Seriously.

The media tried to keep MJ comparisons alive by putting things on his resume he didnt deserve. There is no question about this.

[DaOldLion]

He has never finished in the top 5 voting for DPOY, unlike Lebron who has placed 2nd twice. Also his defensive impact numbers/advanced stats are really weak, almost displaying a negative impact

IMO he was a good but not great defender. Good man to man, but lacked team principles. He doesn't have too many noticeable shutdown jobs like a Lebron has (Derrick Rose 2011, Tony Parker 2013, etc)

IMO Kobe is a third team level all time defender while Lebron is a first/second teamer

you are wrong again, he finished 3rd in 2002, and was top 5 in 2000 & 08

[GIF REACTION]

Was Kobe even the best defender during the threepeat? Shaq surely had a bigger impact. Can't say the same for Lebron teams, Bosh was good but he got his ass handed to him... Lebron was busy defending 1 thru 5

[kennethgriffin]

Which makes it even more amazing he has 2 DPOY runner ups


Lebron fans be like


"4 nba finals runner ups.... 2 dpoty runner ups.... goat gonna goat"




























:coleman:

[NBAplayoffs2001]

In terms of being rewarded first-team all defenses, yes. Phil Jackson has mentioned that there were at least 3-4 seasons where he didn't deserve top dog defensive player at the SG. I'm assuming Jackson felt Wade deserved it more at times which I would agree with.

[NBAplayoffs2001]

you are wrong again, he finished 3rd in 2002, and was top 5 in 2000 & 08

Wait really? Didn't know that. Thanks for the info :applause:

[ShawkFactory]

He is what he is. Absolutely capable of locking down someone when giving the effort.

But it's a loaded question. He's asked to do so much that he can't realistically give that much effort throughout the course of a season, or even a game.

He was good enough to be on the all-defense teams but he wasn't a consistent force the way people who dedicate themselves to it are.

But he absolutely didn't deserve 4-5 of those accolades.

[DaOldLion]

In terms of being rewarded first-team all defenses, yes. Phil Jackson has mentioned that there were at least 3-4 seasons where he didn't deserve top dog defensive player at the SG. I'm assuming Jackson felt Wade deserved it more at times which I would agree with.

when?

he didn't play enough games in 07 or 08 to be considered for the list

he lost out to Larry Hughes in 05 when Kobe didn't even make the all nba defensive team

he didn't even make the 2nd team in 06, so it's hard to argue that he should have made the first team

so 05,06,07,08 he has no argument

you could argue 09, but again those weren't the years you are referencing when talking about what PJ said. He could have made it over Paul.

You could argue 2010

in 2011 he didn't even make the 2nd team..

this myth that Kobe has robbed Wade of a large amount all nba defensive team selections is dumb

[bdreason]

If you're going based off his All-Defense nominations, then yes, he's overrated.

[stalkerforlife]

http://media.giphy.com/media/IBFjeoZ5Oewhi/giphy-downsized-large.gif

#5 in DPOY voting in 2000
#3 in DPOY voting in 2002, thats in the GOAT defensive era and he was behind Big Ben and KG two of the top 5 defenders EVER
#5 in 2008, Bran wasnt even top 20 that year or the year before. But his stacked defensive supporting cast and rebounding did work in playoffs:applause: :applause:

Big Bran fan but Kobe is the better, more impactful defensive player and offensive player. You started watching ball in the 2010s so I dont expect your low IQ/experience to know this.

OP just got served.

:roll:

[feyki]

http://media.giphy.com/media/IBFjeoZ5Oewhi/giphy-downsized-large.gif

#5 in DPOY voting in 2000
#3 in DPOY voting in 2002, thats in the GOAT defensive era and he was behind Big Ben and KG two of the top 5 defenders EVER
#5 in 2008, Bran wasnt even top 20 that year or the year before. But his stacked defensive supporting cast and rebounding did work in playoffs:applause: :applause:

Big Bran fan but Kobe is the better, more impactful defensive player and offensive player. You started watching ball in the 2010s so I dont expect your low IQ/experience to know this.

http://cdn.meme.am/instances/400x/54744443.jpg

[Wade's Rings]

He has never finished in the top 5 voting for DPOY, unlike Lebron who has placed 2nd twice. Also his defensive impact numbers/advanced stats are really weak, almost displaying a negative impact

IMO he was a good but not great defender. Good man to man, but lacked team principles. He doesn't have too many noticeable shutdown jobs like a Lebron has (Derrick Rose 2011, Tony Parker 2013, etc)

IMO Kobe is a third team level all time defender while Lebron is a first/second teamer

Kobe finished 3rd in DPOY Voting in 2002. Please elaborate on the bold.

[dhsilv]

Stop it! He's not, he's a legendary man-to man defender, whos actually slightly underrated on defense


His ability to guard perimter scorers, and limit them is what makes him special.


A true 2-way threat



Here's the proof:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogrLrD6_8-o


He has 9 all nba defensive first team selections. I'm sorry but yes at his best he was a first team guy, but he wasn't even close to first team 9 times over his career. Voters are awful when it comes to the defensive selection of guards. There's enough competition with bigs so they tend to adjust those rankings year after year. Meanwhile guys like Kobe and Kidd just kept making the teams because they couldn't think of anyone else even when they were both basically DH's for 3 quarters their last few selections.

I'm not blaming Kobe here btw. His defensive ability isn't the result of freaking long arms, huge hands, over powering strength....when he locks a guy down he has to reach deep down and has to play at an extremely high energy level. That's a problem when you're usage rate is over 30% and the whole offense is running through you. Kobe had to for the better part of his career pick and choose when to use energy defensively.

[NBAplayoffs2001]

http://media.giphy.com/media/IBFjeoZ5Oewhi/giphy-downsized-large.gif

#5 in DPOY voting in 2000
#3 in DPOY voting in 2002, thats in the GOAT defensive era and he was behind Big Ben and KG two of the top 5 defenders EVER
#5 in 2008, Bran wasnt even top 20 that year or the year before. But his stacked defensive supporting cast and rebounding did work in playoffs:applause: :applause:

Big Bran fan but Kobe is the better, more impactful defensive player and offensive player. You started watching ball in the 2010s so I dont expect your low IQ/experience to know this.

Shut it down Avon Barksdale. Shut it down

http://cdn.yourepeat.com/media/gif/000/374/581/2efefb17061b758f99c024da0e8d59c5.gif

[dhsilv]

tied for the all time record with 9 1st team all defensive awards


nobody ever really mentions him among the all time great defenders.


they talk sh*t all the time cause his last award was off reputation in 2011 and his 2nd team all defensive award in 2012 was also off reputation

so people discount all the times he was legit the best or 2nd best defensive guard in the nba


which falls under the category of UNDERRATED



I finally figured it out. When you type in bold, you're telling a joke! Wow sorry it took so long to figure it out.

But good one man. You should do some jokes on why Kobe is better than Duncan. Those are a hoot

[ballinhun8]

Lebron shut down Rose and Parker.


Has he ever shut down a guy who plays a position close to his?

[dhsilv]

Was Kobe even the best defender during the threepeat? Shaq surely had a bigger impact. Can't say the same for Lebron teams, Bosh was good but he got his ass handed to him... Lebron was busy defending 1 thru 5

Bigs area always going to have the ability to be more impactful. Kobe 2002-2004ish maybe an extra year in there, was pretty damn great defensively. He really could just take a player out of the game if/when he was asked to.

[Akrazotile]

Lebron shut down Rose and Parker.


Has he ever shut down a guy who plays a position close to his?


Paul Pierce playoff avg against Lebron: 17 pts, 39%


Dont make me do this with Paul George and Melo :roll:

[GIF REACTION]

Paul Pierce playoff avg against Lebron: 17 pts, 39%


Dont make me do this with Paul George and Melo :roll:
Got em!

[Akrazotile]

Got em!


*Blows smoke off finger pistol*

[GIF REACTION]

*Blows smoke off finger pistol*
:roll: :roll:

[Smoke117]

when?

he didn't play enough games in 07 or 08 to be considered for the list

he lost out to Larry Hughes in 05 when Kobe didn't even make the all nba defensive team

he didn't even make the 2nd team in 06, so it's hard to argue that he should have made the first team

so 05,06,07,08 he has no argument

you could argue 09, but again those weren't the years you are referencing when talking about what PJ said. He could have made it over Paul.

You could argue 2010

in 2011 he didn't even make the 2nd team..

this myth that Kobe has robbed Wade of a large amount all nba defensive team selections is dumb

All you are saying is what is wrong with the all defensive team in general. Wade was a much, much better defensive player than Kobe in 2011...yet he didn't even make the team and Kobe was 1st team. Kobe has single-handedly destroyed any merit the all defensive team had.

Anyone else notice how Kenny can not give you one legit basketball opinion on why he thinks kobe is so great defensively? You ask him that and you get "he was 1st team all defensive team 9 times"...like that is some kind of answer. In fact, that is ALL he seems to offer in regards to anything. For a guy who is so obsessed with Kobe...he doesn't seem to know anything reasonably thought worthy about his actual game.

[1987_Lakers]

In terms of being rewarded first-team all defenses, yes. Phil Jackson has mentioned that there were at least 3-4 seasons where he didn't deserve top dog defensive player at the SG. I'm assuming Jackson felt Wade deserved it more at times which I would agree with.

Agreed

[1987_Lakers]

If you're going based off his All-Defense nominations, then yes, he's overrated.

Oh look, another post from Kobe's playing days saying Kobe's all-defensive teams were undeserving.

[1987_Lakers]

All you are saying is what is wrong with the all defensive team in general. Wade was a much, much better defensive player than Kobe in 2011...yet he didn't even make the team and Kobe was 1st team. Kobe has single-handedly destroyed any merit the all defensive team had.

Anyone else notice how Kenny can not give you one legit basketball opinion on why he thinks kobe is so great defensively? You ask him that and you get "he was 1st team all defensive team 9 times"...like that is some kind of answer. In fact, that is ALL he seems to offer in regards to anything. For a guy who is so obsessed with Kobe...he doesn't seem to know anything reasonably thought worthy about his actual game.

:applause:

[1987_Lakers]

Don't think I forgot the pic you posted of yourself a few days ago


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wg-uslIi1J4

[1987_Lakers]

don't make me come over there and butter your white girlfriends face with my cream

https://i.ibb.co/f4q1bx0/Screenshot-20221229-102043-Gallery.jpg
:lol

[1987_Lakers]

Btw Ublock Origin is the way to go, the ad blockers you have are outdated.

[RRR3]

they work out pretty well.. can't say the same for you


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44EyyHADFSM


thats really what this is all about. you noticed i've transitioned from a regular playboy into a strong alpha 38 year old man that can handle himself and you still carry a rape whistle and a can of bear mace
So “alpha” you never remove your hat because you’re terrified of the world learning you’re balder than a plucked chicken. :oldlol:

[HoopsNY]

After watching Gobert in the playoffs, I'd have to go with him.

[RogueBorg]

Yet he has 2 DPOY runner ups and Kobe could never even crack top 5

Once he turned 30, Lebron never made 1st-Team All-Defensive.