Paul George already wants to end small ball experiment after one game

[Dr. Ice]

The Pacers opened the preseason with a 110-105 loss to the New Orleans Pelicans on Saturday night, but the highlight of the night came an hour after the game when Paul George spoke his mind with the media and made it clear he isn't on board with the team's effort to change their style of play which has him playing power forward.

"I don't know if I'm cut out for the four spot," George said. "I don't know if this is my position. We'll sit and watch tape and I'm sure I'll talk with coach, I'll talk with Larry as well to get both their input on how the first game went. But I'm still not comfortable with it, regardless of the situation. It's still something I've got to adjust to o r maybe not. Maybe it's something we can go away from."

"Defensively, it's rough, it's rough," George said. "It's an adjustment because I'm not used to doing some of the things out there. I mean, I'm exerting more energy from having to hedge on a ball screen, get back down low to a shot going up, now having to box out. So I don't know, I don't know."

"Honestly, I'd rather build on what we're going to do going into the season," he said. "We're playing around with this style now and trying to figure things out but it's not just myself. The four other guys out there, it was an adjustment for them. We're all talking, a couple other guys are uncomfortable with how we're going to run it and things like that. It's new to everyone. It's new to everybody. This is what preseason's for, it's game one, we've just got to build off it."


http://www.indycornrows.com/2015/10/3/9448089/paul-george-ready-for-pacers-to-bag-small-ball

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[dubeta]

What a p*ssy

:facepalm


LeBron basically played Center for the Heat for 4 seasons with 0 complaints, but 6'10 Paul George is too scared to play PF :(

[Akrazotile]

I dont blame him.

Obviously I respect Bird and Vogel's basketball acumen very much, but I dont see the logic in this idea.

[Dr. Ice]

I dont blame him.

Obviously I respect Bird and Vogel's basketball acumen very much, but I dont see the logic in this idea.
I agree that the logic was terrible, but at the same time giving up and publicly criticizing the coach's decision after one freaking preseason game is lame as hell.

At least keep your opinion in the locker room instead of causing unnecessary drama

[warriorfan]

I dont blame him.

Obviously I respect Bird and Vogel's basketball acumen very much, but I dont see the logic in this idea.

George is more athletic than most PFs which creates mismatches offensively.

[Akrazotile]

George is more athletic than most PFs which creates mismatches offensively.


Yeah but arent they starting ian mahinmi at center? I dont see how theyre gonna get enough easy baskets. I realize PG will draw a defender out and space the floor, but hes gonna be at a disadvantage defensively and it just doesnt seem reliable enough offensively. If they had a 20 ppg guy at center, sure. But a starting PF/C of Paul George and Ian Mahinmi? Seems very gimmicky.

[imnew09]

With David West gone, PG needs more scoring. He can't go pound to pound with PFs that would leave him no energy on the offensive end

[warriorfan]

Yeah but arent they starting ian mahinmi at center? I dont see how theyre gonna get enough easy baskets. I realize PG will draw a defender out and space the floor, but hes gonna be at a disadvantage defensively and it just doesnt seem reliable enough offensively. If they had a 20 ppg guy at center, sure. But a starting PF/C of Paul George and Ian Mahinmi? Seems very gimmicky.

It still forces someone in the defensive frontcourt to come out and check him. That opens up opportunities for not just the center, but the rest of the team as well.

[WorldWarriors]

Don't they have Monta now? This will be interesting.

[AnaheimLakers24]

Kd is tall too, wonder is dumbass vogel would make him a pf as well

[dhsilv]

What a p*ssy

:facepalm


LeBron basically played Center for the Heat for 4 seasons with 0 complaints, but 6'10 Paul George is too scared to play PF :(

and depending on who you talk to lebron was 260-285 when doing that. George is listed at 220 and I doubt he's weighted in over 235 in his career.

That said the biggest issue imo is that george likely isn't comfortable in his own body yet, injuries like that don't leave you. Odds are he wants to play as conservative and like he's used to as possible.

Oh and that team is just horrible...

[Uncle Drew]

When Larry Legend suggests something to me about basketball, I'd put my full trust in it. PG needs to man up.

[KembaWalker]

What a p*ssy

:facepalm


LeBron basically played Center for the Heat for 4 seasons with 0 complaints, but 6'10 Paul George is too scared to play PF :(

The rubbish you spew is astonishing :roll:

On a serious note, I honestly didn't see it working in the first place

[Gileraracer]

What a p*ssy

:facepalm


LeBron basically played Center for the Heat for 4 seasons with 0 complaints, but 6'10 Paul George is too scared to play PF :(

LeBron can't even play PF without crying after game 3.

[Fallen Angel]

I agree that the logic was terrible, but at the same time giving up and publicly criticizing the coach's decision after one freaking preseason game is lame as hell.

At least keep your opinion in the locker room instead of causing unnecessary drama
He was asked about it and responded honestly, why would he lie about his first game in a new small ball system. Not every interview a player does isn't meant to draw drama. If a player can't be honest during interviews then what's the point of having them.

[Fallen Angel]

I don't like having Paul George start at the PF position simply because he's the team's best perimeter defender. That's the lone reason I'm not a fan of this.

Other than that, PG gives his team and himself much more space when he plays the 4. He should play as much of the PF position as Kevin Durant does for the Thunder (which according to BBRef is about 25% of the time he's on the floor), but the Pacers want him to play it as much as Lebron did in Miami (which basically was his primary position when Battier started w/ him).

[SwishSquared]

I think this team is going to need to play small at times this year, but they may as well preserve PG but having CJ Miles check a PF and let PG guard the best opposing wing. I think they're lacking the ideal personnel for this system and didn't really address it in the offseason. I mean, if you don't have the right mix of guys to play small the majority of the time, why not use it in small doses than publicize it's your main way of playing.

I can see why some fans of rebuilding teams have had PG on a list of guys who may be available this upcoming offseason.

[NustABut]

Can't seriously expect someone who snapped their leg in half to be excited about checking guys routinely 20-30 pounds bigger than him.

[stalkerforlife]

Just play basketball.

Bird is too alpha for this dude.

[Fudge]

He's absolutely right.

Vogel and parrot nose Bird should know this. They can't be this stupid.

[Dro]

Ill hold off until we see more games. The thing is, he was probably the best matchup vs. Anthony Davis tonight anyway. On offense, he did draw Davis out to the 3 point line and there was no help for the Pelicans when he drove past him but I don't see why PG couldn't have done what he did tonight against any 3 in the league. So lets see how it goes against a different power forward.

For now, I agree with him, the offense advantages aren't as big an advantage compared to the hit the defense takes while he's at the 3. He should be in the passing lanes deflecting passes and harassing wing players.

When Bird first announced the idea, I liked it. We'll see.

[Richesly]

What a p*ssy

:facepalm


LeBron basically played Center for the Heat for 4 seasons with 0 complaints, but 6'10 Paul George is too scared to play PF :(

Paul George was 6'7 entering the league, sitting just under 6'8.

He's grown 2+ inches since joining the league. I doubt he even thought he would still grow after entering the NBA, so probably would be bad to have him at the 4.
He already moved to SF from SG, now they are trying to move him to the 4?

And LeBron didn't play the center position ever. He played the 4, and has a better game for it since George's only post game involves a decent fade.

[warriorfan]

Paul George was 6'7 entering the league, sitting just under 6'8.

He's grown 2+ inches since joining the league. I doubt he even thought he would still grow after entering the NBA, so probably would be bad to have him at the 4.
He already moved to SF from SG, now they are trying to move him to the 4?

And LeBron didn't play the center position ever. He played the 4, and has a better game for it since George's only post game involves a decent fade.

George is big enough to play the 4. The question is if he is man enough.

[Richesly]

George is big enough to play the 4. The question is if he is man enough.


Being man enough has nothing to do it. Look at Garnett, for instance. A hall of fame PF, who is not manly at all so he likes to give that image. I still remember when Zaza Pachulia was about to beat that *****'s ass.

George just doesn't play his back to the basket. LeBron does, and a lot, even at the 3.

George still plays like a Guard, similar to KD.

[warriorfan]

Being man enough has nothing to do it. Look at Garnett, for instance. A hall of fame PF, who is not manly at all so he likes to give that image. I still remember when Zaza Pachulia was about to beat that *****'s ass.

George just doesn't play his back to the basket. LeBron does, and a lot, even at the 3.

George still plays like a Guard, similar to KD.


True, but PF doesn't require much back to the basket play anymore. It has evolved into more of floor spacing and play making position now. You can see most of the best offenses have a PF that can do these things.

[Jameerthefear]

He's absolutely right.

Vogel and parrot nose Bird should know this. They can't be this stupid.
:roll: :roll: :roll:

[I<3NBA]

True, but PF doesn't require much back to the basket play anymore. It has evolved into more of floor spacing and play making position now. You can see most of the best offenses have a PF that can do these things.
yeah, but when a true PF backs him down, he is no match. he'll be too tired to have any energy on offense.

[DCL]

someone doesn't want to increase his rebounding duties

[dhsilv]

yeah, but when a true PF backs him down, he is no match. he'll be too tired to have any energy on offense.

I don't think he's going to play the 4 against the zach randolph's of the league though. But an AD....that's not a bad match up for the pacers.

[SwishSquared]

True, but PF doesn't require much back to the basket play anymore. It has evolved into more of floor spacing and play making position now. You can see most of the best offenses have a PF that can do these things.George can space the floor 2-4, so no disagreements there. However, offensively he can really struggle to create effectively imo. That hasn't been a big part of his game and he shouldn't try to create a ton honestly.

Playing with a speed advantage at PF can help mitigate that, but I'd think most teams would stick a wing on him and hide their PF on an offensively weak player so that they can roam around. The way GSW used Bogut vs. Memphis, essentially. CJ Miles can get hot, but I'd rather concede shots to him and try to slow down PG. Locking up Miles to let PG have more space against a PF seems like an odd tactic defensively. Oh well, they'll have plenty of cross-matches, I suppose.

[warriorfan]

George can space the floor 2-4, so no disagreements there. However, offensively he can really struggle to create effectively imo. That hasn't been a big part of his game and he shouldn't try to create a ton honestly.

Playing with a speed advantage at PF can help mitigate that, but I'd think most teams would stick a wing on him and hide their PF on an offensively weak player so that they can roam around. The way GSW used Bogut vs. Memphis, essentially. CJ Miles can get hot, but I'd rather concede shots to him and try to slow down PG. Locking up Miles to let PG have more space against a PF seems like an odd tactic defensively. Oh well, they'll have plenty of cross-matches, I suppose.

It's true that teams will still try to put their Wing on George but the Pacers can run high screens to get the defense to switch to uncomfortable match ups. If Monta is playing well again then he will be a factor that requires a good defender to be on him. I see that there are problems with George at the 4 but I still think overall it would be more positive than negative.

[Richesly]

It's true that teams will still try to put their Wing on George but the Pacers can run high screens to get the defense to switch to uncomfortable match ups. If Monta is playing well again then he will be a factor that requires a good defender to be on him. I see that there are problems with George at the 4 but I still think overall it would be more positive than negative.

But the problem is that when you move George to the 4, he HAS to guard the 4. If they switch George on a guard or SF, he'll be too exhausted to guard a 4 who didn't run as much as him throughout the game. And you are also wasting his perimeter defense if you have him in the interior.

[lil jahlil]

Looks like another disaster season for the Pacers.

[sundizz]

Small ball only works when you have someone that is a NATURAL 4, but happens to be undersized. This is why it works so well with the Warriors - Dray Green is a natural 4 but has the offensive skillset of a hybrid three/four.

To be a natural 4 you have to:
1. Love rebounding
2. Love playing interior defense
3. Love setting screens
4. Love the physicality of the game

Paul George has none of those. He would get so exhausted trying to play the 4 that he'd have nothing for the offensive end. Dray does all that naturally and knows how to do it from years of experience so he still has energy on the offensive end (not that he has to do that much).

Best small ball 4's in the league
1. Dray
2. Diaw
3. Lebron
4. Lamar Odom of past
5. Oddly Rob Horry (he shot threes and spread the floor).

then there is a big gap. It is why "small ball" is an overrated and overrused term. You need a very specific player to fill that 4 spot. Someone that can pass very well + play defense on 4's + rebound + energy.

[magnax1]

He's not wrong. A huge part of his value is his defense anyway, and let's be real, what is he going to do at the four defensively? It sounds like Bird just thinks having four perimeter guys is the normal thing now, but it doesn't play to the team's strengths at all.
I don't see the pacers doing much no matter what though.

[ImKobe]

Every time some team finds a new formula to win a ton of games and a championship, all the other teams have to try and mimic that shit without the correct pieces to do so. Paul George ain't no damn Draymond Green, they don't have a Steph Curry at PG..


George is a great WING defender, not a post defender. He has the size to play the 4 in today's game, but he's way more valuable on the perimeter and defending the opposing team's guards..

[KNOW1EDGE]

Why the fuhck would Paul George want to experiment with his career and risk injury playing power forward, especially when he is returning from a horrible injury?

Why would this be good for Paul George? It's a horrible idea. Bird is a retard

Paul George has handled this whole thing really well, a lot of players of his caliber would have straight up refused or been a d1ck about it.

[TheBigVeto]

He can be decent at 4.
But not when playing Anthony Davis.

[GIF REACTION]

20 points first Q

[PacerRaptor]

Holy **** he went off. Guess he recovered well from his injury

[SwishSquared]

20 points first QI haven't been watching. Who has he guarded and who has defended him? Ersan & Marcus Morris? Those are the types of guys PG-13 can take advantage of imo when they go small.

[ZMonkey11]

George is more athletic than most PFs which creates mismatches offensively.

He's also more athletic than most SFs which creates mismatches offensively.

[RidonKs]

makes sense to me

he's a string bean

silly idea especially what with jordan hill scratching his head wondering what is going on....




so there's your answer

this is larry bird playing head games with his young power forward

those lines from paul george are so transparently scripted its frightening

george will be back to small forward in a few weeks

[SHAQisGOAT]

Small ball only works when you have someone that is a NATURAL 4, but happens to be undersized. This is why it works so well with the Warriors - Dray Green is a natural 4 but has the offensive skillset of a hybrid three/four.

To be a natural 4 you have to:
1. Love rebounding
2. Love playing interior defense
3. Love setting screens
4. Love the physicality of the game

Paul George has none of those. He would get so exhausted trying to play the 4 that he'd have nothing for the offensive end. Dray does all that naturally and knows how to do it from years of experience so he still has energy on the offensive end (not that he has to do that much).

Best small ball 4's in the league
1. Dray
2. Diaw
3. Lebron
4. Lamar Odom of past
5. Oddly Rob Horry (he shot threes and spread the floor).

then there is a big gap. It is why "small ball" is an overrated and overrused term. You need a very specific player to fill that 4 spot. Someone that can pass very well + play defense on 4's + rebound + energy.

Oddly enough, the guy who suggested this idea, Larry Bird, might be considered the "best small-ball 4" ever, even if being 6'9 w/o shoes on.

You also had dudes like Schrempf, Jerry Lucas (call him a small-ball 4/5), Battier, Al Harrington, Vandeweghe (wasn't rebounding much though, amongst other "things")... You can even say someone like Tom Chambers to some extent, even if he was a 6'10 big dude.

[SCdac]

why would you want PG as your point guard anyways? Not feeling it

[dubeta]

I've never seen a bigger p*ssy in my life

He's 6'10 yet too scared to play PF :facepalm



Makes Bargnani look like Prime Ben Wallace

[9erempiree]

He's right. PG is not a power forward unless the Pacers and the league sees the traditional 3 as a 4 now.

[Gileraracer]

I've never seen a bigger p*ssy in my life



Come on. Do i have to remind you of Lebrons flopping? Isn't that ***** like?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fSlLdXNzPw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZpGKC62qvs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mF6J1afUzjQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mh_cdQuPS7o


Need more evidence? :lol

[Dro]

I haven't been watching. Who has he guarded and who has defended him? Ersan & Marcus Morris? Those are the types of guys PG-13 can take advantage of imo when they go small.
He basically played the 3 last night. He guarded Morris and Morris guarded him. He didn't matchup with Ersan much at all on either end. CJ Miles was basically the PF last night.

[Dro]

Come on. Do i have to remind you of Lebrons flopping? Isn't that ***** like?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fSlLdXNzPw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZpGKC62qvs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mF6J1afUzjQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mh_cdQuPS7o


Need more evidence? :lol
I finally put that dude on ignore. I can't remember the last time he added anything meaningful to any thread. Just trolls away.

[SwishSquared]

He basically played the 3 last night. He guarded Morris and Morris guarded him. He didn't matchup with Ersan much at all on either end. CJ Miles was basically the PF last night.Thanks man!

It's encouraging he shot well and took advantage of Morris. I saw some highlights and he took early shot clock Js off the catch, which I don't remember Indy doing in past years. I think Morris isn't starting-caliber, but this is a situation in which you can get away with 4 perimeter players imo. Ersan is a shooting threat and you can survive putting a wing like Miles on him.

Good to have PG-13 looking sharp.

[Dr.J4ever]

Thanks man!

It's encouraging he shot well and took advantage of Morris. I saw some highlights and he took early shot clock Js off the catch, which I don't remember Indy doing in past years. I think Morris isn't starting-caliber, but this is a situation in which you can get away with 4 perimeter players imo. Ersan is a shooting threat and you can survive putting a wing like Miles on him.

Good to have PG-13 looking sharp.

I don't see it yet, but there is already some wild speculations in Philly about PG's future. Possibly the 76ers? Philly might be the only team with enough of a package to pry PG away from the Pacers. Don't see it yet though.

http://www.libertyballers.com/2015/10/6/9448227/22-days-until-sixers-is-paul-george-a-future-sixer

[SwishSquared]

I don't see it yet, but there is already some wild speculations in Philly about PG's future. Possibly the 76ers? Philly might be the only team with enough of a package to pry PG away from the Pacers. Don't see it yet though.

http://www.libertyballers.com/2015/10/6/9448227/22-days-until-sixers-is-paul-george-a-future-sixerThanks for the link!

I think Indy needs to semi-implode for George to want out. If they really underperform, which could happen, I could see him becoming frustrated, especially if he guards opposing PFs too frequently. However, I'm not sure that happens much. CJ Miles & Solomon Hill will get the "Battier treatment" this year I think.

I've seen some Philly fans say they want to snag George, then sign KD as a free agent. I guess if you have the cap space/picks/young players, why not dream hahaha.

[Dr.J4ever]

Thanks for the link!

I think Indy needs to semi-implode for George to want out. If they really underperform, which could happen, I could see him becoming frustrated, especially if he guards opposing PFs too frequently. However, I'm not sure that happens much. CJ Miles & Solomon Hill will get the "Battier treatment" this year I think.

I've seen some Philly fans say they want to snag George, then sign KD as a free agent. I guess if you have the cap space/picks/young players, why not dream hahaha.

Yep, if anyone can do it, it would be Hinkie.

Imagine sending Okafor or Noel to Indy, and maybe the Lakers pick, and say, our OKC pick. Would that be enough of a package?

Philly would still have their own pick next season, the Miami pick, Saric next season and maybe Embiid. Of course, if Sac implodes, we get all those swaps too.

Not likely, but something to watch as this Indy thing evolves.

[Legends66NBA7]

I've never seen a bigger p*ssy in my life

Just look down.

[SwishSquared]

Yep, if anyone can do it, it would be Hinkie.

Imagine sending Okafor or Noel to Indy, and maybe the Lakers pick, and say, our OKC pick. Would that be enough of a package?

Philly would still have their own pick next season, the Miami pick, Saric next season and maybe Embiid. Of course, if Sac implodes, we get all those swaps too.

Not likely, but something to watch as this Indy thing evolves.Also to note- if SAC has a top 10 pick this year, Philly automatically gets a future unprotected first rounder in 2019 (Cousins can leave in summer 2018 as a FA I believe).

I would start with Okafor, Stauskas, and the OKC + MIA picks. That's not enough, but I'd see how Bird views it. I think Okafor/Noel + LAL pick + future first+ young wing guy is what it'd likely take.

I'm partial to Noel for his D. I'd be more amenable to move Okafor, though Noel would be a better 2-way fit with Turner.

I've never been right in predicting Hinkie's moves (other than saying MCW would get traded at some point) but I think he starts consolidating young players + picks next summer. Only have so many roster spots and trying to bring in (likely) 4 first round picks + Saric + Embiid is a lot to integrate.

[Dro]

Thanks man!

It's encouraging he shot well and took advantage of Morris. I saw some highlights and he took early shot clock Js off the catch, which I don't remember Indy doing in past years. I think Morris isn't starting-caliber, but this is a situation in which you can get away with 4 perimeter players imo. Ersan is a shooting threat and you can survive putting a wing like Miles on him.

Good to have PG-13 looking sharp.
No problem. They actually switched Stanley Johnson onto him after a while.

I think we would have to implode also for PG to leave. He made his comments after the other game about not really wanting to play PF but then he had a meeting with Larry and Frank the other day before the Pistons game and all parties said everything was "ok". Vogel did say that he would never have PG continue playing a certain position if PG was not comfortable with it so he's not going to continue to FORCE PG to play PF but he does want him to continue to try. But I don't really see it being an issue except when we face actual PF's like Anthony Davis, Randolph, Griffin, etc and those guys play in the West anyway. He only has to face them twice.

[SwishSquared]

No problem. They actually switched Stanley Johnson onto him after a while.

I think we would have to implode also for PG to leave. He made his comments after the other game about not really wanting to play PF but then he had a meeting with Larry and Frank the other day before the Pistons game and all parties said everything was "ok". Vogel did say that he would never have PG continue playing a certain position if PG was not comfortable with it so he's not going to continue to FORCE PG to play PF but he does want him to continue to try. But I don't really see it being an issue except when we face actual PF's like Anthony Davis, Randolph, Griffin, etc and those guys play in the West anyway. He only has to face them twice.I think he won't be guarding many PFs after all if I had to guess. I don't think that was probably Bird's intention- I think they see more value in maximizing floor space with more perimeter players than the defensive cross matches this plan will create.

I too think it's unlikely PG gets so irritated he wants out. Could have happen, you never know, but that'd be a quick souring.

[Clifton]

He's not a PF.

He's a SG who's 6'8 and can't dribble that well so he plays SF. He's strong and a good defender so it works well.

He shouldn't be permanently listed as a 4 any more than Draymond Green should be permanently listed as a 5. Sometimes it will behoove the Pacers to play small with PG guarding the other team's 4. But basketball, despite what you've heard, is not a positionless game.

If you're playing a bad team, you don't want to wear him out for no reason by making him guard bigger players. If you're playing a good team, most of the good teams in the league are going to punish you if you only have one big man on the court in your starting lineup.

Golden State removing Bogut from the lineup was a high-risk tactical decision for the short term. And when they did it, Cavs went ham on the boards. They simply needed to get their shooters rolling so sped up the pace. Once they did, Cavs didn't have the firepower to match because 2 of their 3 best players were out for the series.

[Dro]

He's not a PF.

He's a SG who's 6'8 and can't dribble that well so he plays SF. He's strong and a good defender so it works well.

He shouldn't be permanently listed as a 4 any more than Draymond Green should be permanently listed as a 5. Sometimes it will behoove the Pacers to play small with PG guarding the other team's 4. But basketball, despite what you've heard, is not a positionless game.

If you're playing a bad team, you don't want to wear him out for no reason by making him guard bigger players. If you're playing a good team, most of the good teams in the league are going to punish you if you only have one big man on the court in your starting lineup.

Golden State removing Bogut from the lineup was a high-risk tactical decision for the short term. And when they did it, Cavs went ham on the boards. They simply needed to get their shooters rolling so sped up the pace. Once they did, Cavs didn't have the firepower to match because 2 of their 3 best players were out for the series.
PG is a 2 on offense but he's a 3 on defense. He's improved his ball handling every year though and it looks improved in the first 2 games. We'll see how the season goes.

Honestly something nobody has mentioned that I think may be true is these guys have professional pride, they look forward to the best matchups with other guys who play the same position. Like when Jordan faced Clyde in the Finals and wanted to show everyone who the best SG in the world was. Or like when Reggie would go up against Jordan or Starks. Guys really want to win those matchups and when you switch positions, it can take some of that away. Mainly talking if its a position the guy pretty clearly does not fit the typical mold for(like PG in this case).

[lil jahlil]

He did well in his last game.

[bluechox2]

his dick cant handle the big boys

[Monta Ellis MVP]

Larry Bird knows better than us. George needs to give it more time and work at it instead of giving up after the first game.