Kills me to say this but D'Angelo Russell's ceiling is low.

[ClipperRevival]

I'm sure some of you noticed that I was yapping about how great he was going to be prior to summer league. But you have to keep in mind that my evaluation of him was based purely on Youtube videos. I had never seen him live. And after seeing him live for the first time in summer league, I realized how heavy his feet were. That's something the Youtube videos don't show because they don't show him moving around the court doing the normal things, like change directions, plant and explode, slide laterally, etc. They only show his good points. If you had given me 10 minutes to evaluate this guy live, I would've seen this. But the Youtube videos hid this.

So here is a somewhat quick breakdown of his positives/negatives and overview:

Positives: Great court vision and passer. He really sees the floor better than most people and is able to anticipate the action at times. He does have a good feel for the game. His shot also looks right. I still think he has a chance to be a very good 3 point shooter. Also has good size/length.

Negatives: : Heavy feet. This guy has very heavy feet. It's like he's dragging his feet every time he moves. That's a huge no-no in basketball. The guy has no initial quickness and no suddenness to his step. And that impacts almost everything you do in basketball. He'll never be able to consistently break down set defenders on iso because of this. He is a complete liability on P&R defense because his heavy feet makes it hard for him to fight through picks. He is always switching because of this.

Overview: It pains me to say this but his ceiling is limited. His heavy feet and lack of any suddenness really limits his ceiling. His ceiling is a great passing PG who can get his teammates involved with possibly a great outside shot but that's about it. He'll never be a dominant, iso scorer who can break down set defenders and carry an offense. Again, it pains me to say this as a Laker fan but this is the truth. I hope I am completely wrong and someone can bump this in the future and say I was an idiot but it's not hard to see. His heavy feet limits his ceiling. It's that simple. This is the highest level and you might get away with heavy feet in any other league but not he NBA.

[T_L_P]

Lakers drafted b2b busts.

[ClipperRevival]

It still baffles me how the Laker organization didn't see his heavy feet after several workouts. I just can't comprehend it actually. Having quickness and light feet is essential for a PG.

And on the flip side, Okafor had two traits that you can't teach for a big and that is light feet and touch. Not to mention his solid feel for the game and post game.

Yes, Okafor has a much higher ceiling. I can see him possibly approaching 20/10 as a rookie.

[Millslapped]

So do you think Okafor would have been the better choice? Not mocking or anything, being serious.

[ClipperRevival]

Russell really needs his outside shooting to be on point for him to be above a Ricky Rubio type player. That's what can help him at least get to a higher tier. And I think he can.

[ClipperRevival]

So do you think Okafor would have been the better choice? Not mocking or anything, being serious.

Absolutely. Okafor has extremely light feet for a big along with great touch. Also add in refined post game, feel for the game, huge hands and knows how to use his big booty in the post to shield guy. He's set up to be a career 20/10 guy.

[Millslapped]

I'm curious if the Lakers thought Russel was the best player available or were thinking that Okafor+Randle couldn't work defensively. (I don't think Russel will bust but Randle is a bust imo)
IMO you have to take BPA

[ClipperRevival]

I'm curious if the Lakers thought Russel was the best player available or were thinking that Okafor+Randle couldn't work defensively. (I don't think Russel will bust but Randle is a bust imo)
IMO you have to take BPA

They took Russell as the BAP.

I am actually higher on Randle than Russell because at least Randle has rare athleticism for a guy his size. He has much lighter feet than Russell if you can believe that. He is also more sudden, quicker and explosive than Russell. So the raw talent is there. It's just a matter of putting it together. But Randle's shot looks terrible. It looks like he's throwing it at the rim instead of shooting it. But the guy is ox strong and can move guys.

[Millslapped]

Randle isn't a good defender and his athleticism isn't enough to curtail that. He reminds me of Terrence Jones a lot actually, except with worse finishing at the rim and worse defense.

[sd3035]

His ceiling is basically the floor

[Braincells]

You're basing this off a preseason game where almost everyone had tired legs from Byron's archaic practices. Preseason games are almost as meaningless as summer league games, and any opinion on those should be filed in the waste basket.

Like with any rookie, the sample size is simply not big enough. I'd give him 2 years max before coming to a reasonable conclusion on him, as he's only 19 and still has ways to go.

My analysis should not matter much at this point, but from the limited minutes he played last game, I thought he was decent in terms of his passing, spacing, court awareness. His defense on Trey Burke was decent as well. He clearly has the length and speed to disrupt players, and that will go a long way when paired with Clarkson. Unlike Okafor, he clearly has the ability to make his teammates better.

If I were a Laker fan, I'd be more concerned about Randle.

[ClipperRevival]

Randle isn't a good defender and his athleticism isn't enough to curtail that. He reminds me of Terrence Jones a lot actually, except with worse finishing at the rim and worse defense.

Randle has rare athleticism for a guy his size and strength. His lower body fluidity is very elite. He has quick feet, good acceleration, is agile and explosive. His problem at this point is all skills related. Bad bball iq, terrible looking shot, going at one speed at all times, etc.

The raw talent is there for Randle and he's willing to learn.

[ClipperRevival]

You're basing this off a preseason game where almost everyone had tired legs from Byron's archaic practices. Preseason games are almost as meaningless as summer league games, and any opinion on those should be filed in the waste basket.

Like with any rookie, the sample size is simply not big enough. I'd give him 2 years max before coming to a reasonable conclusion on him, as he's only 19 and still has ways to go.

My analysis should not matter much at this point, but from the limited minutes he played last game, I thought he was decent in terms of his passing, spacing, court awareness. His defense on Trey Burke was decent as well. He clearly has the length and speed to disrupt players, and that will go a long way when paired with Clarkson. Unlike Okafor, he clearly has the ability to make his teammates better.

If I were a Laker fan, I'd be more concerned about Randle.

Heavy feet can be evaluated in a few minutes. And after a couple of games, it's absolutely set in stone whether a player has heavy feet or not. That's different from evaluating skills that might take time to develop. Raw athleticism is easy to gauge right away.

[StephHamann]

Yes, Okafor has a much higher ceiling. I can see him possibly approaching 20/10 as a rookie.

:biggums:

[dubeta]

So is the basement you live in

[Braincells]

Heavy feet can be evaluated in a few minutes. And after a couple of games, it's absolutely set in stone whether a player has heavy feet or not. That's different from evaluating skills that might take time to develop. Raw athleticism is easy to gauge right away.

Didn't people say the same things about Curry when he came into the league? I'm not sure if it's athleticism and speed that defines a player as much as it is smarts and skillset these days. If the former were true, players like Shannon Brown and James White would still be in the league.

It's more about pacing and smarts, and Russell has all the qualities to be a star player in the league. If he did look "heavy footed", which I didn't see, it would be more of a conditioning and game shape issue that will improve as the season progresses. Looked to me like he had the speed to keep up with Trey Burke and other smaller point guards. As a 6' 5 guard, this is pretty impressive.

Kobe's also been unusually high on him throughout all of camp. It's worth noting that Roy Hibbert called him sneaky athletic in some interview, and implied that he'll be posterizing big men in the future.

[Dbrog]

His feet look heavy cause he has like a 13 inch vert :lol

Dude moves like PP

[ClipperRevival]

Didn't people say the same things about Curry when he came into the league? I'm not sure if it's athleticism and speed that defines a player as much as it is smarts and skillset these days. If the former were true, players like Shannon Brown and James White would still be in the league.

It's more about pacing and smarts, and Russell has all the qualities to be a star player in the league. If he did look "heavy footed", which I didn't see, it would be more of a conditioning and game shape issue that will improve as the season progresses. Looked to me like he had the speed to keep up with Trey Burke and other smaller point guards. As a 6' 5 guard, this is pretty impressive.

Kobe's also been unusually high on him throughout all of camp. It's worth noting that Roy Hibbert called him sneaky athletic in some interview, and implied that he'll be posterizing big men in the future.

Curry has some quickness and suddenness in his step.

And all I am saying is that Russell's ceiling is limited due to his heavy feet. I also mentioned his court vision/passing along with possibly great shooting. But his heavy feet limits his ceiling. That's simply true. He can still be a very good player.

[SwishSquared]

Randle isn't a good defender and his athleticism isn't enough to curtail that. He reminds me of Terrence Jones a lot actually, except with worse finishing at the rim and worse defense.T-Jones has turned into a nice young player and I think his extra length helps him out. I see Randle topping out as average defensively due to his lower body fluidity. He'll recover quickly in the PnR, I think. But he just can't provide rim protection and can really only play PF.

Randle probably is super rusty, but his finishing is kinda ugly right now. I had Okafor as the better player than Russell, but I could see the argument. I think Randle-Okafor would have been an ugly pairing defensively. Offensively, it'd be cramped too until Randle developed a jumper.

Lakers moved pretty quick to snag Hibbert/Lou Williams/Bass after LMA spurned them, but I think they should have gotten Okafor and signed guys like Carroll and Aminu for their defense and lineup versatility.

Re: Russell- I think he can pair nicely in the backcourt with Clarkson. JC can guard the more imposing backcourt player and they can hide Russell. He does have a pretty good max vert, so maybe he can utilize double screens to free himself up. That freed up CP3 every time vs. Kawhi in the playoffs last year. Plus, Russell has legit long range, so he can punish guys who don't fight over Horns sets. He shot over 42% from NBA range in college, tops in the nation, I think. Could have been a fluke, but I think he'll have that range.

Wing defense will be key for them, so drafting A. Brown may work out for them. He can be a nice 3&D guy. I was surprised they took Nance Jr. in the first round (knew little about him going into the draft) instead of RJ Hunter. Thought they could have bought a pick off Philly to grab Nance Jr. in the 2nd round. At least Upshaw can bring legit rim protection off the bench for them.

[iamgine]

Which other PGs have this 'heavy feet'? I imagine Raymond Felton is one of them.

[Millslapped]

T-Jones has turned into a nice young player and I think his extra length helps him out. I see Randle topping out as average defensively due to his lower body fluidity. He'll recover quickly in the PnR, I think. But he just can't provide rim protection and can really only play PF.

Randle probably is super rusty, but his finishing is kinda ugly right now. I had Okafor as the better player than Russell, but I could see the argument. I think Randle-Okafor would have been an ugly pairing defensively. Offensively, it'd be cramped too until Randle developed a jumper.

Lakers moved pretty quick to snag Hibbert/Lou Williams/Bass after LMA spurned them, but I think they should have gotten Okafor and signed guys like Carroll and Aminu for their defense and lineup versatility.

Re: Russell- I think he can pair nicely in the backcourt with Clarkson. JC can guard the more imposing backcourt player and they can hide Russell. He does have a pretty good max vert, so maybe he can utilize double screens to free himself up. That freed up CP3 every time vs. Kawhi in the playoffs last year. Plus, Russell has legit long range, so he can punish guys who don't fight over Horns sets. He shot over 42% from NBA range in college, tops in the nation, I think. Could have been a fluke, but I think he'll have that range.

Wing defense will be key for them, so drafting A. Brown may work out for them. He can be a nice 3&D guy. I was surprised they took Nance Jr. in the first round (knew little about him going into the draft) instead of RJ Hunter. Thought they could have bought a pick off Philly to grab Nance Jr. in the 2nd round. At least Upshaw can bring legit rim protection off the bench for them.
Except JC is one of the worst defenders in the NBA

[Dr Seuss]

You're judging his heavy feet off the two occasions you watched him play? both of which he had foot injuries. summer league - rolled ankle (could be an excuse)
and preseason game 1 - bruised bone in his foot

yeah, i havent been taking your opinion seriously since you started blabbing how amazing he would be off youtube videos, and today's tiresome thread doesnt change that

[ClipperRevival]

Which other PGs have this 'heavy feet'? I imagine Raymond Felton is one of them.

It's really rare to find an NBA PG or SG with heavy feet. I can't think of 1 elite PG or even very good PG with such attributes. So just the fact that he was the 2nd overall pick is a testament to some of the other skills be brings to the table to offset this.

[SwishSquared]

Except JC is one of the worst defenders in the NBAI don't disagree. That huge post and that's what you singled out haha.

He was a rookie- most rooks are bad on defense. I realize he had inflated stats on a bad team, but he's got some nice physical tools to D up. Remember when people thought Wiggins would be a decent defender out of the gate? He was bad.

I'm thinking like 3-4 years from now, not the upcoming season. He could still be terrible when he hits his prime. Just a prediction :confusedshrug:

[ClipperRevival]

You're judging his heavy feet off the two occasions you watched him play? both of which he had foot injuries. summer league - rolled ankle (could be an excuse)
and preseason game 1 - bruised bone in his foot

yeah, i havent been taking your opinion seriously since you started blabbing how amazing he would be off youtube videos, and today's tiresome thread doesnt change that

That's understandable. Not like I'm happy to about the things I said in this thread but it's what I believe to be true. I wanted Russell to be "the man" and not only be a great passer but also have the ability to carry a team offensively. But heavy feet limits everything you do. Have to call it like I see it.

[Levity]

This is a high screen and roll league. With his knack for passing, a (hopefully) good outside and midrange shot, and his array of hesitation moves (which you generally dont see in a player so young), hes going to be just fine offensively.

His length is going to be a factor defensively, but he will undoubtedly get caught and slowed down when trying to go around screens. but thats exactly why the lakers picked up hibbert.

His ceiling is as high as any other rookie. of course, that doesnt mean he'll hit it, but just focusing on something like "heavy feet" which is subjective anyway, is a terrible way to go about judging a player, who hasnt even played a regular season game, let alone a season.

[ClipperRevival]

This is a high screen and roll league. With his knack for passing, a (hopefully) good outside and midrange shot, and his array of hesitation moves (which you generally dont see in a player so young), hes going to be just fine offensively.

His length is going to be a factor defensively, but he will undoubtedly get caught and slowed down when trying to go around screens. but thats exactly why the lakers picked up hibbert.

His ceiling is as high as any other rookie. of course, that doesnt mean he'll hit it, but just focusing on something like "heavy feet" which is subjective anyway, is a terrible way to go about judging a player, who hasnt even played a regular season game, let alone a season.

Heavy feet isn't subjective. Not to someone who has played the game and knows how to evaluate talent. Again, I'm not saying he's going to "suck." I'm just saying that his ceiling is limited. And that is 100% true. I wanted nothing more than for Russell to be that next great Laker star but it's just not happening. Not in terms of being a dominant offensive force who can break down set defenders. Without that initial quickness or suddenness, he won't be able to do that consistently. His calling card will be as a great passer who can shoot the ball. If he can do that at a high level, i'll be contempt.

[senelcoolidge]

The excuses given by the Russell defenders is hilarious. By the laker fans. After next season they will still make excuses.

[Levity]

Heavy feet isn't subjective. Not to someone who has played the game and knows how to evaluate talent

:lol
love posts like that. you computer screen GM's talent is being wasted on the likes of us ISH nobodies

and judging heavy feet off a TV screen is completely subjective. it has already been pointed out that he had injuries in both summer league and preseason. ALL reports coming out of training camp is that his athleticism has surprised many in a great way. in the coming years, the kids body is going to fill out, almost kobe-esque. hes going to gain a lot of muscle and strength, and as a result, will be able to have a more explosive first step than he does now.

[kshutts1]

Overview:[/U][/B] It pains me to say this but his ceiling is limited. His heavy feet and lack of any suddenness really limits his ceiling. His ceiling is a great passing PG who can get his teammates involved with possibly a great outside shot but that's about it. He'll never be a dominant, iso scorer who can break down set defenders and carry an offense. Again, it pains me to say this as a Laker fan but this is the truth. I hope I am completely wrong and someone can bump this in the future and say I was an idiot but it's not hard to see. His heavy feet limits his ceiling. It's that simple. This is the highest level and you might get away with heavy feet in any other league but not he NBA.
We should all name all of the PGs that were "dominant, iso scorers that can break down set defenders and carry an offense" that also won an NBA title playing in that role.

Thomas, Curry (sort of), and.... ?

God forbid the Lakers seek out and draft a prototype that is, historically, not the best way to build a team.

[kshutts1]

Just basing this off of everyone else's opinions/evaluations of Russell...

But it sounds like his floor is Jameer Nelson. Not good for the #2 overall pick, but not a terrible player either.

Ceiling may be an elite passer, great shooter, that doesn't break people down on the regular and is not a dominant defender either... that sounds like Mark Jackson with a 3p shot. That is a great choice at #2.

Did I do an alright job with the comparisons?

[ClipperRevival]

:lol
love posts like that. you computer screen GM's talent is being wasted on the likes of us ISH nobodies

and judging heavy feet off a TV screen is completely subjective. it has already been pointed out that he had injuries in both summer league and preseason. ALL reports coming out of training camp is that his athleticism has surprised many in a great way. in the coming years, the kids body is going to fill out, almost kobe-esque. hes going to gain a lot of muscle and strength, and as a result, will be able to have a more explosive first step than he does now.

Again, heavy feet isn't subjective for people who played the game and know what to look for. At least I hope you are right in that his injuries and the fact that he's only 19 means he might be able to improve on it a little bit. But you can't improve on it that much. Light feet is a god given trait. You either have it or you don't.

[ClipperRevival]

We should all name all of the PGs that were "dominant, iso scorers that can break down set defenders and carry an offense" that also won an NBA title playing in that role.

Thomas, Curry (sort of), and.... ?

God forbid the Lakers seek out and draft a prototype that is, historically, not the best way to build a team.

True. As a Laker fan, I had high expectations and wanted the entire package. Dominant iso scoring and great passer. But now, reality is that I will have to be contempt with great passer and great shooter. But that's a HUGE drop off in tier.

[Millslapped]

Just basing this off of everyone else's opinions/evaluations of Russell...

But it sounds like his floor is Jameer Nelson. Not good for the #2 overall pick, but not a terrible player either.

Ceiling may be an elite passer, great shooter, that doesn't break people down on the regular and is not a dominant defender either... that sounds like Mark Jackson with a 3p shot. That is a great choice at #2.

Did I do an alright job with the comparisons?
That's not a good comparison. Jameer is a lot shorter

[ihatetimthomas]

He has not looked good. Slow first step and no elevation. But he has been playing through injuries in both summer league and pre season. Thats going to limit mobility. So I will hold off judgement until they say he is injury free.

Randle actually looks good to me. He is very quick and aggressive. His shots are not dropping but he is getting looks. He has the ability to create a shot and initiate offense off the break

[Levity]

Randle actually looks good to me. He is very quick and aggressive. His shots are not dropping but he is getting looks. He has the ability to create a shot and initiate offense off the break

Randle just needs ONE game where he sees the ball go in the basket consistently. Hasnt happened in any of his summer league or preseason games. Once that happens, it will really change his mentality as a scorer. the guy has the ability to get to the rim, and once his midrange jumper is considered a threat, hes going to be getting to the rim at will. But it all starts with him making a handful of buckets in a game. If he can do that consistently, hes going to be a pretty damn good offensive weapon

Defensively, his IQ is pretty damn low right now. But thats why we picked up and paired him with Meta.

[kshutts1]

That's not a good comparison. Jameer is a lot shorter
Size doesn't matter all that much in comparing play styles, IMO. Effectiveness of said playing style, of course. But not the actual style of play.

[kshutts1]

True. As a Laker fan, I had high expectations and wanted the entire package. Dominant iso scoring and great passer. But now, reality is that I will have to be contempt with great passer and great shooter. But that's a HUGE drop off in tier.
Who is the highest ranked dominant iso scoring PG ever? Isiah in the 20-30 range?

Then around the same rank, or higher, we have Magic and Stockton.

Not saying Russell will reach those heights, just saying the fact that he may not be a dominant iso scorer is not that big of a deal. It's not an expected trait for a PG, not even today.

Not to mention, I firmly believe that a pass-first player (typically PG) is more useful than their stats suggest, just by keeping everyone happy and on the same page.

An elite-passing player should, in theory, control the offensive flow and keep everyone involved, and/or recognize when someone was in a funk and needed a pick-me-up.

That can be nearly invaluable on a young, combustible team like the Lakers. Much more so, IMO, than one player taking all the shots. In short, while I think the Lakers messed up by not taking Okafor, Russell's supposed style of play should be very conducive to increasing the sum of the parts, as it were, and thus to winning.

[ClipperRevival]

Who is the highest ranked dominant iso scoring PG ever? Isiah in the 20-30 range?

Then around the same rank, or higher, we have Magic and Stockton.

Not saying Russell will reach those heights, just saying the fact that he may not be a dominant iso scorer is not that big of a deal. It's not an expected trait for a PG, not even today.

Not to mention, I firmly believe that a pass-first player (typically PG) is more useful than their stats suggest, just by keeping everyone happy and on the same page.

An elite-passing player should, in theory, control the offensive flow and keep everyone involved, and/or recognize when someone was in a funk and needed a pick-me-up.

That can be nearly invaluable on a young, combustible team like the Lakers. Much more so, IMO, than one player taking all the shots. In short, while I think the Lakers messed up by not taking Okafor, Russell's supposed style of play should be very conducive to increasing the sum of the parts, as it were, and thus to winning.

It's not about being a dominant iso scorer or scoring 25 ppg. It's about the fact that he doesn't have the physical attributes to be able to blow by guys when he needs to at times. That's an attribute that most elite PGs have, the ability to break down a defense and get to the rack. His heavy feet means he will almost never lose a set defender with his quickness. He'll have to rely heavily on his skills to get it done. But that's asking for a lot when you don't have the natural talent to rely on but must dig deep into your bag of tricks to get by guys all the time. It's easier to just get by a guy with quickness than using hesitations, crossovers, etc.

Bottom line is, his heavy feet limits his ceiling and how impactful he can be.

[FKAri]

Randle has rare athleticism for a guy his size and strength. His lower body fluidity is very elite. He has quick feet, good acceleration, is agile and explosive. His problem at this point is all skills related. Bad bball iq, terrible looking shot, going at one speed at all times, etc.

The raw talent is there for Randle and he's willing to learn.

Sounds like 80% of the league tbh.

[eeeeeebro]

i would think of d'angelo as a person with physical stature to be able to be elite with IQ to be elite but he needs to hit the roids up like lebron and wade to realy make it in the NBA.

[ClipperRevival]

Sounds like 80% of the league tbh.

Nah, Randle is a pretty rare blend of size/power/speed. Most guys as strong as him lack athleticism or have athleticism but lack strength. Randle is strong as an ox (natural strength) and can run the floor like a Barkley/Malone. That's a rare blend.

You are right in that many NBA players do have athleticism but can't put the skills part together. In that sense, that is Randle right now.

[Braincells]

Curry has some quickness and suddenness in his step.

And all I am saying is that Russell's ceiling is limited due to his heavy feet. I also mentioned his court vision/passing along with possibly great shooting. But his heavy feet limits his ceiling. That's simply true. He can still be a very good player.

No, not really.

By all reports, Curry had "heavy feet" coming into the league, and his defense was very suspect. DraftExpress projected him to be a back up/fringe starter due to those difficulties. How long before that term becomes a meme on ISH for all point guards who aren't Westbrook or Rose quick?

Curry isn't textbook quick. His craftiness and skillset allows him to create the separation from defenders. This is something he developed over time, and I don't think it will be any different for Russell. Not comparing Russell to Curry, but Russell's ceiling will be a function of how hard he works on his craft. The physical tools are clearly there for him, and he's gifted with big hands and a legitimate wingspan.

[HOoopCityJones]

No offense OP but why don't you go **** yourself? You were the one championing picking this kid with our pick all summer and now that Ive seen you post a few times since then it's clear you aren't even a fan of the Lakers, if your name wasn't already enough evidence.

We should have picked Okafor.

[HOoopCityJones]

:biggums:

It's like night and day compared to what he was saying before the draft. :oldlol:

[Levity]

It's like night and day compared to what he was saying before the draft. :oldlol:

haha absolutely. and its funny, because okafor has some cement blocks tied to his feet. sure, big men arent expected to be ice skating out there, but JO's slow footedness is going to make him a defensive liability for a long time. at least until he learns proper positioning and rotations.

and in todays up and down league, slow footed centers are slowly being relegated to the bench.

[WorldWarriors]

I'm still not sold on D'Angelo Russell being lead footed, slow footed or whatever. In the SL games it seemed to me he was thinking too much. I'll give him a chance once he learns whatever offense they are supposed to run in some real games. He seems to me to be thinking too much before he acts, makes a play.

[ClipperRevival]

haha absolutely. and its funny, because okafor has some cement blocks tied to his feet. sure, big men arent expected to be ice skating out there, but JO's slow footedness is going to make him a defensive liability for a long time. at least until he learns proper positioning and rotations.

and in todays up and down league, slow footed centers are slowly being relegated to the bench.

Okafor has light feet when operating in the post. He can chop his steps up and pivot, turn, etc. That's different from being a big with solid, overall athleticism that might be able to move with more ease laterally because he's more naturally fluid. Okafor actually has the wrong type of body build to do that. Huge calves and huge ass. But in terms of what you need to be efficient in the post, he has important traits: light feet, coordinated, touch, huge hands and feel for the game.

[SwishSquared]

Okafor has light feet when operating in the post. He can chop his steps up and pivot, turn, etc. That's different from being a big with solid, overall athleticism that might be able to move with more ease laterally because he's more naturally fluid. Okafor actually has the wrong type of body build to do that. Huge calves and huge ass. But in terms of what you need to be efficient in the post, he has important traits: light feet, coordinated, touch, huge hands and feel for the game.He'll be a traffic cone in the PnR for a couple years. His lateral movement defensively is subpar right now. He can learn to read/react better defensively and be better conditioned to boost quickness somewhat, but he's gonna be a middling defender. He should be able to use his big frame to be an obstacle near the basket, but we'll see.

Apparently JarKarr "PointKarr" Sampson easily was gliding by Okafor in practice. Mind you Sampson was a PF in college and played 1-3 basically for the 76ers last season. I don't think he'd be on any other roster in the league, save for a team like Portland that completely blew up this summer.

Jah's special offensively but that's it right now.

[outbreak]

I don't think you can call a player a bust so early but you can say they will take time to adapt. Randle and Russell both look like it'll take time for them to be real contributors in this league

[ClipperRevival]

I'm still not sold on D'Angelo Russell being lead footed, slow footed or whatever. In the SL games it seemed to me he was thinking too much. I'll give him a chance once he learns whatever offense they are supposed to run in some real games. He seems to me to be thinking too much before he acts, makes a play.

To me, it was so glaring from the 1st summer league game I saw. And after watching several more summer league games and the 1 preseason game, just further confirmed my thoughts.

[ClipperRevival]

I don't think you can call a player a bust so early but you can say they will take time to adapt. Randle and Russell both look like it'll take time for them to be real contributors in this league

I didn't call him a bust. I said his ceiling is limited. There is a difference.

[ClipperRevival]

It's like night and day compared to what he was saying before the draft. :oldlol:

I had no idea his feet were that heavy. Before summer league games, all I had to go on was Youtube vids. I had never watched him live. So I assumed he possessed at least NBA level foot speed and not the subpar foot speed he actually has. That changed everything for me and how I view his ceiling.

And no, you can't really judge a guy's food speed on highlight vids because they are almost always of a guy running full speed or shooting or passing. Never showing him doing normal things like stopping and starting, changing directions, sliding laterally, etc. Only by watching a guy move around in live action can you see these things.

[outbreak]

I didn't call him a bust. I said his ceiling is limited. There is a difference.
yeah you didn't but others here did.

[ZeN]

ClipperRevival = Clipperfan86?

[Levity]

ClipperRevival = Clipperfan86?

haha anythings possible. his excitement for russel before the draft based soley off youtube videos is very reminiscent of 86's uncanny love for bledsoe. but 86 threw so many temper tantrums that i havent noticed in revival. but you never know.

[Cocaine80s]

How much do his feet weigh op?

[ClipperRevival]

ClipperRevival = Clipperfan86?

I've been asked this before and I am not him.

[chips93]

Doesnt he have a bone bruise in his foot? thats not gonna help his quickness

I agree he'll probably never be a great iso scorer, but hes crafty, he'll be able to score out of the pick and roll.

fwiw, brandon roy had 'heavy feet' and he worked out fine until his knees gave out.

[toneloc103]

I'm sure some of you noticed that I was yapping about how great he was going to be prior to summer league. But you have to keep in mind that my evaluation of him was based purely on Youtube videos. I had never seen him live. And after seeing him live for the first time in summer league, I realized how heavy his feet were. That's something the Youtube videos don't show because they don't show him moving around the court doing the normal things, like change directions, plant and explode, slide laterally, etc. They only show his good points. If you had given me 10 minutes to evaluate this guy live, I would've seen this. But the Youtube videos hid this.

So here is a somewhat quick breakdown of his positives/negatives and overview:

Positives: Great court vision and passer. He really sees the floor better than most people and is able to anticipate the action at times. He does have a good feel for the game. His shot also looks right. I still think he has a chance to be a very good 3 point shooter. Also has good size/length.

Negatives: : Heavy feet. This guy has very heavy feet. It's like he's dragging his feet every time he moves. That's a huge no-no in basketball. The guy has no initial quickness and no suddenness to his step. And that impacts almost everything you do in basketball. He'll never be able to consistently break down set defenders on iso because of this. He is a complete liability on P&R defense because his heavy feet makes it hard for him to fight through picks. He is always switching because of this.

Overview: It pains me to say this but his ceiling is limited. His heavy feet and lack of any suddenness really limits his ceiling. His ceiling is a great passing PG who can get his teammates involved with possibly a great outside shot but that's about it. He'll never be a dominant, iso scorer who can break down set defenders and carry an offense. Again, it pains me to say this as a Laker fan but this is the truth. I hope I am completely wrong and someone can bump this in the future and say I was an idiot but it's not hard to see. His heavy feet limits his ceiling. It's that simple. This is the highest level and you might get away with heavy feet in any other league but not he NBA.


I think we get it

[ihatetimthomas]

Randle just needs ONE game where he sees the ball go in the basket consistently. Hasnt happened in any of his summer league or preseason games. Once that happens, it will really change his mentality as a scorer. the guy has the ability to get to the rim, and once his midrange jumper is considered a threat, hes going to be getting to the rim at will. But it all starts with him making a handful of buckets in a game. If he can do that consistently, hes going to be a pretty damn good offensive weapon

Defensively, his IQ is pretty damn low right now. But thats why we picked up and paired him with Meta.

His shots have not dropped but he is getting separation and decent looks. His lack of shots dropping has not stopped his aggressiveness. He looks fairly confident to me out there. He just needs to get into a rhythm which is naturally going to take time as a 1 game sophomore coming off a season ending injury.

He has quickness, is explosive and handles the ball fairly well for his size. He is going to be a match nightmare if he puts it all together.

He was never known for his D. He can learn as he goes along in terms of positioning and help D. But for crying out loud its game 1 of preseason. Give the guy some slack

I think Lakers fans are being too impatient and nitpicking at every little shortcoming. Season hasn't even begun. Only one preseason game under the belt. Did everyone expect them to be stars and fully acclimated to the speed of the game at day 1?

[WorldWarriors]

His shots have not dropped but he is getting separation and decent looks. His lack of shots dropping has not stopped his aggressiveness. He looks fairly confident to me out there. He just needs to get into a rhythm which is naturally going to take time as a 1 game sophomore coming off a season ending injury.

He has quickness, is explosive and handles the ball fairly well for his size. He is going to be a match nightmare if he puts it all together.

He was never known for his D. He can learn as he goes along in terms of positioning and help D. But for crying out loud its game 1 of preseason. Give the guy some slack

I think Lakers fans are being too impatient and nitpicking at every little shortcoming. Season hasn't even begun. Only one preseason game under the belt. Did everyone expect them to be stars and fully acclimated to the speed of the game at day 1?


Sadly yes, lol.

[outbreak]

His shots have not dropped but he is getting separation and decent looks. His lack of shots dropping has not stopped his aggressiveness. He looks fairly confident to me out there. He just needs to get into a rhythm which is naturally going to take time as a 1 game sophomore coming off a season ending injury.

He has quickness, is explosive and handles the ball fairly well for his size. He is going to be a match nightmare if he puts it all together.

He was never known for his D. He can learn as he goes along in terms of positioning and help D. But for crying out loud its game 1 of preseason. Give the guy some slack

I think Lakers fans are being too impatient and nitpicking at every little shortcoming. Season hasn't even begun. Only one preseason game under the belt. Did everyone expect them to be stars and fully acclimated to the speed of the game at day 1?

The multiple threads we get here from lakers fans saying they will be all stars this year is what is causing so much back lash on them so early.

Russell compared himself to Shabazz Napier when he was starting out at Ohio, let's hope he adjusts better to the NBA than Shabazz did.

[ihatetimthomas]

The multiple threads we get here from lakers fans saying they will be all stars this year is what is causing so much back lash on them so early.

Russell compared himself to Shabazz Napier when he was starting out at Ohio, let's hope he adjusts better to the NBA than Shabazz did.

I dont understand why posters respond to such outlandish claims. For the majority of players, there is going to be some growing pains. Not every top 3 pick gets it together on day 1.

[outbreak]

I dont understand why posters respond to such outlandish claims. For the majority of players, there is going to be some growing pains. Not every top 3 pick gets it together on day 1.

Tell that to the lakers fanbase here, we get daily threads and posts about how amazing these guys are and any time you bring up the flaws they need to work on to be more than mediocre people flip out and resort to insults. You are right though, the majority of rookies have flaws they need to over come, some manage to do it and work out fine, others don't and end up being role players. Time will tell and some players take longer than others to develop.

[LoneyROY7]

Lakers drafting busts and can't convince any good free agents to sign.

Tough times, tough times.

[outbreak]

Okafor looking good early in the game today

[senelcoolidge]

Okafor looking good early in the game today

Wow, the lakers passed on Okafor.:facepalm Even with the short PF from kentucky, you always pick the best player available.

[dazzer87]

Wow, the lakers passed on Okafor.:facepalm Even with the short PF from kentucky, you always pick the best player available.
Kobe told the FO that he could talk LMA into signing with lakers, and said to not waste their draft pick on Okafor.....I guess when Kobe said "I eat first" to LMA at the meeting, it didnt work............

[bobopenguin]

Kobe told the FO that he could talk LMA into signing with lakers, and said to not waste their draft pick on Okafor.....I guess when Kobe said "I eat first" to LMA at the meeting, it didnt work............

source plx.

the whole pre draft drama is crazy.
the priority (my opinion) was:
1) trade for cousins, with 2 out of either randle or JC or pick + fillers.
2) get LMA
3) get okafor
4)whatever else.

[outbreak]

Kobe told the FO that he could talk LMA into signing with lakers, and said to not waste their draft pick on Okafor.....I guess when Kobe said "I eat first" to LMA at the meeting, it didnt work............
http://dynamicon.com.au/pictures/orig/CB036085mz.jpg

[imdaman99]

I don't know if it's because he's a lefty as well, but I say his offensive ceiling is Mike Conley Jr. He's a very nice player and good enough to be an all star, but ceiling-wise, I don't see superstar potential.

[outbreak]

I don't know if it's because he's a lefty as well, but I say his offensive ceiling is Mike Conley Jr. He's a very nice player and good enough to be an all star, but ceiling-wise, I don't see superstar potential.

:biggums:

D'angelo's biggest flaw is his speed and footwork and you bring up a guy who possibly has the best footwork in the league for a guard.

[imdaman99]

:biggums:

D'angelo's biggest flaw is his speed and footwork and you bring up a guy who possibly has the best footwork in the league for a guard.
Do you know the meaning of ceiling? Ceiling means he lives 100% to his potential. It doesn't mean he's anywhere close to that. Do you think rookie Kobe had that footwork? Or even Olajuwon? But like I said, I prob picked him because he's lefty :lol

[MJ(Mean John)]

Randle just needs ONE game where he sees the ball go in the basket consistently. Hasnt happened in any of his summer league or preseason games. Once that happens, it will really change his mentality as a scorer. the guy has the ability to get to the rim, and once his midrange jumper is considered a threat, hes going to be getting to the rim at will. But it all starts with him making a handful of buckets in a game. If he can do that consistently, hes going to be a pretty damn good offensive weapon

Defensively, his IQ is pretty damn low right now. But thats why we picked up and paired him with Meta.


I actually think that Randle's ceiling is pretty high. Initially, I saw him as more a traditional 4, but I think the lakers see him as almost a 3. Sort of a MWP player.
I see a lamar odom meets ron artest.

They took Randle away from a ZBO type player, to a SF playmaking the player.

I think once he picks up his rhythm, he will be a good player. I also think he will be an above average defender, eventually.

Really like Randle and it's no coincidence that Lakers brought in WMP and Big Game James.

[MJ(Mean John)]

It's not about being a dominant iso scorer or scoring 25 ppg. It's about the fact that he doesn't have the physical attributes to be able to blow by guys when he needs to at times. That's an attribute that most elite PGs have, the ability to break down a defense and get to the rack. His heavy feet means he will almost never lose a set defender with his quickness. He'll have to rely heavily on his skills to get it done. But that's asking for a lot when you don't have the natural talent to rely on but must dig deep into your bag of tricks to get by guys all the time. It's easier to just get by a guy with quickness than using hesitations, crossovers, etc.

Bottom line is, his heavy feet limits his ceiling and how impactful he can be.


Now granted He is still young, and he's been hurt with foot injuries, I do worry that Russell will have a bit of that Kendall Marshall type speed. See, I think that Marshall was picked up as a lotto pick, and he has no shot, and no defense.

At least Russell has not only a shot, but an offensive game. But the fact that John wall is athletic and get by his defender, separates John wall from K. Marhsall.

[Angel Face]

He will be a bust. Lakers should have gone for Okafor.

[buddha]

didn't Russell have a bruised bone in his foot and was limping around just a couple days ago?

[IGOTGAME]

didn't Russell have a bruised bone in his foot and was limping around just a couple days ago?


Guy looking soft out there

[TheBigVeto]

Don't be too down on him. He'll be a HoFer.

[bdreason]

Steph Curry's ceiling was low too.

[Lebron23]

Steph Curry's ceiling was low too.


But Steph is a better player than this chump.

[miggyme1]

You are wrong about russell. If you are heavy footed and dont know how to use your size then its a problem. Russell has shown numerous times he can use his size to his advantage. I think he will blossom into something great for the lakers. Dude is very smooth on the court....very good vision like you said and already looks like one of the best passing point guards in the league and he is a rookie. He will be fine....lakers just have to build smart around this guy. He is gonna need an explosive backcourt mate who can shoot and play effectively off ball as far as cutting and getting open without the ball. They got randle so all they really need is a center who can protect the rim and set great screens and roll to the hoop and catch alleys. Lakers might be 5 years away from contending again

[Spurs m8]

Dude needs to learn where to play tbh

https://mtc.cdn.vine.co/r/videos/A91DA3BF611263398645278384128_4ec2d90673d.0.1.6747 435771973917273.mp4?versionId=OT5WSskJl8tuXwzIB0S2 DTadVF777K.T

[NBAplayoffs2001]

I'm sure some of you noticed that I was yapping about how great he was going to be prior to summer league. But you have to keep in mind that my evaluation of him was based purely on Youtube videos. I had never seen him live. And after seeing him live for the first time in summer league, I realized how heavy his feet were. That's something the Youtube videos don't show because they don't show him moving around the court doing the normal things, like change directions, plant and explode, slide laterally, etc. They only show his good points. If you had given me 10 minutes to evaluate this guy live, I would've seen this. But the Youtube videos hid this.

So here is a somewhat quick breakdown of his positives/negatives and overview:

Positives: Great court vision and passer. He really sees the floor better than most people and is able to anticipate the action at times. He does have a good feel for the game. His shot also looks right. I still think he has a chance to be a very good 3 point shooter. Also has good size/length.

Negatives: : Heavy feet. This guy has very heavy feet. It's like he's dragging his feet every time he moves. That's a huge no-no in basketball. The guy has no initial quickness and no suddenness to his step. And that impacts almost everything you do in basketball. He'll never be able to consistently break down set defenders on iso because of this. He is a complete liability on P&R defense because his heavy feet makes it hard for him to fight through picks. He is always switching because of this.

Overview: It pains me to say this but his ceiling is limited. His heavy feet and lack of any suddenness really limits his ceiling. His ceiling is a great passing PG who can get his teammates involved with possibly a great outside shot but that's about it. He'll never be a dominant, iso scorer who can break down set defenders and carry an offense. Again, it pains me to say this as a Laker fan but this is the truth. I hope I am completely wrong and someone can bump this in the future and say I was an idiot but it's not hard to see. His heavy feet limits his ceiling. It's that simple. This is the highest level and you might get away with heavy feet in any other league but not he NBA.

I thought Mudiay had the far higher ceiling than Russell but not as high of a floor.

[NBAplayoffs2001]

I don't know if it's because he's a lefty as well, but I say his offensive ceiling is Mike Conley Jr. He's a very nice player and good enough to be an all star, but ceiling-wise, I don't see superstar potential.

I like this one. I agree with it. He's no better than Conley. Defensively, his ceiling isn't that high. He's a Lillard type of defender.

He does have heavy feet, I agree with OP.

[dreamwarrior]

Russells right now is as good as prine marbury

[outbreak]

Russells right now is as good as prine marbury
Right now he's looked like prime chris smith (jrs brither)

[HOoopCityJones]

I said it to OP in the weeks leading up to the draft and i'll say it again, I didn't see anything particularly great or special about Russell from most of the footage and articles I read or watched, all I kept hearing is he had great court vision and he could shoot. All i thought when I read/heard this was "ok, so can the other 100 guards in the league"

People so quick to compare him to Curry because lol he shoots and he passes , oh my not even considering that Curry already at his age is one of the best shooters in League history if not THE best shooter ever.

That's the type of shit you bank on and Jerry West thought his shot was enough to build on and he's turned out to be a solid star player if not the new face of the league.

"Take the Best Player available"

That's been Okafor since March of last year, you can't teach what he has at such a young age and everyone knew it and The Lakers siked themselves out just because they saw Curry hoisting a championship trophy in the Summer.

[Hopper15]

Heavy feet lol

Just say slow feet.

[AirTupac]

I said it to OP in the weeks leading up to the draft and i'll say it again, I didn't see anything particularly great or special about Russell from most of the footage and articles I read or watched, all I kept hearing is he had great court vision and he could shoot. All i thought when I read/heard this was "ok, so can the other 100 guards in the league"

People so quick to compare him to Curry because lol he shoots and he passes , oh my not even considering that Curry already at his age is one of the best shooters in League history if not THE best shooter ever.

That's the type of shit you bank on and Jerry West thought his shot was enough to build on and he's turned out to be a solid star player if not the new face of the league.

"Take the Best Player available"

That's been Okafor since March of last year, you can't teach what he has at such a young age and everyone knew it and The Lakers siked themselves out just because they saw Curry hoisting a championship trophy in the Summer.

You do realize Jerry West himself said this kid has the potential to be a future multiple allstar as well...

[senelcoolidge]

You do realize Jerry West himself said this kid has the potential to be a future multiple allstar as well...

Anthony Bennett, Greg Oden, Derrick Williams, Brandon Knight, etc all of these guys had all star potential

[AirTupac]

Anthony Bennett, Greg Oden, Derrick Williams, Brandon Knight, etc all of these guys had all star potential

The **** does this have to do with anything. Im replying to the guys post when hes referring to Jerry West (WHO HAPPENS TO BE THE GUY RESPONSIBLE for players like Kobe, Klay Thompson, Curry etc.). I honestly wonder how stupid ISH people are when they think they know better than someone like West.

[GIF REACTION]

D'Angelo Trashell

WCS is better by a mile or 2

[oh the horror]

What gets me is it was specially stated before the draft that this kid is going to take awhile to get it together. Okafor was ready now for the most part.



We are seeing exactly what was said. Yet the ISH GMs are apparently begging to differ.


I'm willing to give it an entire season to really take a hard look at how he adjusts his pacing at the very least. I don't expect all star numbers in the least considering WHAT WAS ALREADY SAID regarding him

[GimmeThat]

I feel like if Chris Paul ever got his chance to play against Trey Burke, he would realize that if Burke could run his offense, the Jazz might one day realize the importance of a Center, or a real one that is, instead of the consistent multiple PF combos that they draft and utilize.

as for D'Angelo Russell and his ceiling. There's already MCW, but if Russell could add one of those Shawn Marion quick release in the mid range as he dribbles during the break.


at this point, I might as well take the Utah Jazz fan base to the Lakers.

[ClipperRevival]

Regarding the Jerry West thing, I bet he was on the same boat as me in that he saw videos of Russell and never saw him live. So he didn't get a chance to properly evaluate him. Nothing beats watching a guy live.

I'm still shocked the Lakers drafted him despite his incredibly heavy feet. I mean it's pretty bad. Randle, a 250lb PF, has much lighter feet than this guy. Russell looks like he's running around with 10 lb bags on both legs.

It's just a shame. I was hoping for great things from this guy, another Curry type impact player. But damm, anytime a basketball player has feet this heavy, it affects almost EVERYTHING you do.

So we have to pretty much accept the fact that he will not be a great iso scorer. He might be a great P&R player because of his passing and feel for the game. And hopefully, his shooting will be lights out. So his ceiling is a great passing PG who has a shot. That's not bad but I was hoping for an elite, Curry type player.

[Levity]

Regarding the Jerry West thing, I bet he was on the same boat as me in that he saw videos of Russell and never saw him live. So he didn't get a chance to properly evaluate him. Nothing beats watching a guy live.




:roll: :roll: :roll:

i dont think i will ever take you seriously as a poster now. Cause West would be one to make the outlandish claim, "super star potential" based strictly off youtube videos

[ClipperRevival]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

i dont think i will ever take you seriously as a poster now. Cause West would be one to make the outlandish claim, "super star potential" based strictly off youtube videos

Not my fault I never got a chance to see him live before the draft. All I had was Youtube videos. But if you had given me 10 minutes to run him through any drills I asked him to do, I would've seen his heavy feet pretty clearly.

[Foster5k]

Jerry West: "D'Angelo Russell will be better than Jordan."

Reporter: "Michael Jordan?"

Jerry West: "No. Marcus Jordan."

[AirTupac]

Regarding the Jerry West thing, I bet he was on the same boat as me in that he saw videos of Russell and never saw him live. So he didn't get a chance to properly evaluate him. Nothing beats watching a guy live.

I'm still shocked the Lakers drafted him despite his incredibly heavy feet. I mean it's pretty bad. Randle, a 250lb PF, has much lighter feet than this guy. Russell looks like he's running around with 10 lb bags on both legs.

It's just a shame. I was hoping for great things from this guy, another Curry type impact player. But damm, anytime a basketball player has feet this heavy, it affects almost EVERYTHING you do.

So we have to pretty much accept the fact that he will not be a great iso scorer. He might be a great P&R player because of his passing and feel for the game. And hopefully, his shooting will be lights out. So his ceiling is a great passing PG who has a shot. That's not bad but I was hoping for an elite, Curry type player.

Highly doubt he made that claim of only youtube videos bro... :facepalm

[AirTupac]

Not my fault I never got a chance to see him live before the draft. All I had was Youtube videos. But if you had given me 10 minutes to run him through any drills I asked him to do, I would've seen his heavy feet pretty clearly.

You are truly a great GM. Just pm'd mitch kupchak and told him about you.

[ClipperRevival]

Highly doubt he made that claim of only youtube videos bro... :facepalm

Maybe. But he never did a workout with the Warriors. Was Russell at the combines? Don't recall if he was. My point is that West is a great talent evaluator and i think that if he did see him up close, he would've seen what i saw. Or maybe what happened was that he fell in love with so many of his positive attributes that he overlooked it because Russell does have a lot of good things going for him. My simple point is that his heavy feet limits his ceiling.

[chips93]

Regarding the Jerry West thing, I bet he was on the same boat as me in that he saw videos of Russell and never saw him live. So he didn't get a chance to properly evaluate him. Nothing beats watching a guy live.

you have no way of knowing this, and its insane to assume it

jerry west's job is to know about college prospects like russell, im sure hes watched tons of his games.


So we have to pretty much accept the fact that he will not be a great iso scorer. He might be a great P&R player because of his passing and feel for the game. And hopefully, his shooting will be lights out. So his ceiling is a great passing PG who has a shot. That's not bad but I was hoping for an elite, Curry type player.

well, your expectations were beyond unreasonable to begin with

[ClipperRevival]

you have no way of knowing this, and its insane to assume it

jerry west's job is to know about college prospects like russell, im sure hes watched tons of his games.



well, your expectations were beyond unreasonable to begin with

I honestly feel like had Russell possessed Curry type quickness, his ceiling would be a Curry type player. But his heavy feet is a serious negative and lowers his ceiling tremendously. It is what it is. You can't change heavy feet.

[chips93]

brandon roy wasnt light on his feet, neither was chauncey billups, they managed to make it work. if russell becomes as good as either of them, he will be a success.

star players come in all shapes and sizes. if you are good enough you can overcome any one, seemingly critical flaw.

people said curry was way too slow coming out of davidson too, and we had three years of footage of steph, we only have one of russell.

tony parker is small, weak, and cant jump, yet he finds a way to be one of the best guards in the entire league at finishing at the basket.

if russell adjusts to the nba pace, and keeps working on his skills, he can make it work, in spite of this one perceived weakness.

player evaluation is more than seeing one flaw and writing a player off as a result.

[HOoopCityJones]

You do realize Jerry West himself said this kid has the potential to be a future multiple allstar as well...

If Jerry has faith, then so can I. :confusedshrug:

Was just really keyed in on Okafor and his game.

[Monta Ellis MVP]

D'Angelo Russell looked promising but he has not looked athletic from the games I have seen. He won't be a top tier player but he can become a star.

[ClipperRevival]

brandon roy wasnt light on his feet, neither was chauncey billups, they managed to make it work. if russell becomes as good as either of them, he will be a success.

star players come in all shapes and sizes. if you are good enough you can overcome any one, seemingly critical flaw.

people said curry was way too slow coming out of davidson too, and we had three years of footage of steph, we only have one of russell.

tony parker is small, weak, and cant jump, yet he finds a way to be one of the best guards in the entire league at finishing at the basket.

if russell adjusts to the nba pace, and keeps working on his skills, he can make it work, in spite of this one perceived weakness.

player evaluation is more than seeing one flaw and writing a player off as a result.

I never said he would be a bust or that he would suck. I just said that his ceiling is severely limited. He's got a lot of great things going for him.

[ClipperRevival]

This is really sad. We used the #2 pick to draft a facilitator. You don't use the #2 pick to draft a facilitator. You use it to draft a superstar.

I just can't believe how the people who drafted him didn't see his heavy feet. It simply boggles my mind. He is literally dragging his feet. That limits almost everything you do on the basketball court on both ends. If you play, you know what I mean. Heavy feet is a huge no-no in basketball.

It's sad. Of the 3 games I've seen of him so far, he's made maybe one attempt to break down a set defender. That's it. Just once. He knows he doesn't have the quickness to blow by anyone. So he is relegated to a facilitator. So all he can really do is hit guys coming off picks or catch the defense when it isn't set. But he doesn't have the ability to break down a set D, attract attention, and dish it off. Most great PGs are great at breaking down set defenses. That's one of the prerequisites of a great PG. But not this guy.

Kills me that we drafted a player with a very low ceiling.

[ClipperRevival]

Randle and Clarkson are keepers. They both possess enough athleticism to compete at the NBA level. I really like both of them.

But damm, Russell? :banghead: Jesus F Christ. His shot better be deadly and he better develop a great off-ball game and hit those jumpers because he isn't breaking down any set defense. Defensive wise? He almost never stays with his man on P&R D because he doesn't have the quickness to stay with his man so he almost always has to switch. Teams will pick up on this eventually. If you want to get a mismatch, have the guy being guarded by Russell run a P&R with the guy you want the mismatch with. His vision and passing will be there but that doesn't make you a superstar, just makes you a great facilitator.

[Captvic]

honestly the kid sucks, Lakers should have drafted okafor.

His ceiling is George Hill

[outbreak]

This is really sad. We used the #2 pick to draft a facilitator. You don't use the #2 pick to draft a facilitator. You use it to draft a superstar.

I just can't believe how the people who drafted him didn't see his heavy feet. It simply boggles my mind. He is literally dragging his feet. That limits almost everything you do on the basketball court on both ends. If you play, you know what I mean. Heavy feet is a huge no-no in basketball.

It's sad. Of the 3 games I've seen of him so far, he's made maybe one attempt to break down a set defender. That's it. Just once. He knows he doesn't have the quickness to blow by anyone. So he is relegated to a facilitator. So all he can really do is hit guys coming off picks or catch the defense when it isn't set. But he doesn't have the ability to break down a set D, attract attention, and dish it off. Most great PGs are great at breaking down set defenses. That's one of the prerequisites of a great PG. But not this guy.

Kills me that we drafted a player with a very low ceiling.

Not always, it's rare to get actually get a star. The problem I have with the pick is he wasn't the player with the highest ceiling and he wasn't a player who potentially had a lower ceiling but looked like a guaranteed contributor. He looks like one of those 4-8 range guys you take and hope he develops a couple of elite skills which sucks to be taken at 2 when this draft looks like it has a bunch of talent coming out of the lottery.

[AirTupac]

Not always, it's rare to get actually get a star. The problem I have with the pick is he wasn't the player with the highest ceiling and he wasn't a player who potentially had a lower ceiling but looked like a guaranteed contributor. He looks like one of those 4-8 range guys you take and hope he develops a couple of elite skills which sucks to be taken at 2 when this draft looks like it has a bunch of talent coming out of the lottery.

No one knows how they'll pan out. D'Angelo could be a star or a Kendall Marshall 2.0 but scouts from every team all had D'Angelo above Mudiay without question so there might be something there.... but then again drafts aren't a taletell sign of whats to come.

You guys (Clippers) are judging him off youtube videos? There are scouts who devout probably 40+hours a week to watch extensive game footage, go to games, watch combines etc. They have seen Mudiay and D'Angelo PLENTY. They obviously saw D'Angelos weaknesses and still had HIGH praise for him and I doubt any one of those scouts are saying right now "F*ck what a bust D'Angelo is". lol

[outbreak]

No one knows how they'll pan out. D'Angelo could be a star or a Kendall Marshall 2.0 but scouts from every team all had D'Angelo above Mudiay without question so there might be something there.... but then again drafts aren't a taletell sign of whats to come.
I agree it's too early to tell. He has a couple of skills that could help him succeed I just don't see that star potential though but there's been plenty of cases of players who look destined to be average who turn out to be great. I liked Russell in college so I hope he succeeds, I don't hate the Lakers either I just hate how some of their posters act and over react here. I don't think it's fair to label any player a bust until they at least have shown in multiple seasons they won't contribute.

[AirTupac]

I agree it's too early to tell. He has a couple of skills that could help him succeed I just don't see that star potential though but there's been plenty of cases of players who look destined to be average who turn out to be great. I liked Russell in college so I hope he succeeds, I don't hate the Lakers either I just hate how some of their posters act and over react here. I don't think it's fair to label any player a bust until they at least have shown in multiple seasons they won't contribute.

Agreed. And seriously speaking, you shouldnt take some of my threads seriously. I know what I'm doing when I make those threads. It's fun, it's ISH. :oldlol:

[Levity]

watching last nights game kind of irked me. not so much because of russels lack of aggression, but more because this is a high pick and roll league (for the most part), but we didnt run any high pnr's for russel last night. instead, he stood above the 3 pt line, waiting for the other 4 guys to off ball screen for eachother until someone curled to the free throw or 3 pt line.

around the leauge, coaches arent subjecting their PG's to run that kind of offense, yet, coach scott is making russel attempt to break down his man without a screen, when knowing that is biggest glaring weakness.

kind of odd.

[Cocaine80s]

watching last nights game kind of irked me. not so much because of russels lack of aggression, but more because this is a high pick and roll league (for the most part), but we didnt run any high pnr's for russel last night. instead, he stood above the 3 pt line, waiting for the other 4 guys to off ball screen for eachother until someone curled to the free throw or 3 pt line.

around the leauge, coaches arent subjecting their PG's to run that kind of offense, yet, coach scott is making russel attempt to break down his man without a screen, when knowing that is biggest glaring weakness.

kind of odd.
Why do you think Jeremy Linn had his worse year? because Byron doesnt let them run pnr

[AirTupac]

watching last nights game kind of irked me. not so much because of russels lack of aggression, but more because this is a high pick and roll league (for the most part), but we didnt run any high pnr's for russel last night. instead, he stood above the 3 pt line, waiting for the other 4 guys to off ball screen for eachother until someone curled to the free throw or 3 pt line.

around the leauge, coaches arent subjecting their PG's to run that kind of offense, yet, coach scott is making russel attempt to break down his man without a screen, when knowing that is biggest glaring weakness.

kind of odd.

Also agreed. The offensive sets are .... whack? But at least Scott has a great track record of developing allstar PGS. Ship his ass out when D'Angelo is ready for stardom.

[chips93]

There were tons of big men rumored to be on their way to the lakers at some point, boogie, lamarcus, love, none of whom would fit well with okafor on both sides of the ball.

I think the lakers just thought that they had a good shot at getting one of those three guys, and they didnt want to draft someone that wouldnt fit alongside those bigs. Because those guys are all established legit all stars, they take priority over a draft pick, who you dont know how he'll pan out.

So they took the slightly less talented, but much easier fit in d'angelo, who can space the floor, handle the ball, and play two positions well.

I'd say if the lakers knew that they werent gonna get any of those three bigs, they would have taken okafor, that's who they had been reportedly leaning towards all through the season.

[!@#$%Vectors!@#]

He'll be fine. He just has to adjust himself and find his sweet spot and niche. every player has flaws. We just have to find Russells strengths.

[Mr. Jabbar]

also RIP op, gave his life to say it :(

[AirTupac]

There were tons of big men rumored to be on their way to the lakers at some point, boogie, lamarcus, love, none of whom would fit well with okafor on both sides of the ball.

I think the lakers just thought that they had a good shot at getting one of those three guys, and they didnt want to draft someone that wouldnt fit alongside those bigs. Because those guys are all established legit all stars, they take priority over a draft pick, who you dont know how he'll pan out.

So they took the slightly less talented, but much easier fit in d'angelo, who can space the floor, handle the ball, and play two positions well.

I'd say if the lakers knew that they werent gonna get any of those three bigs, they would have taken okafor, that's who they had been reportedly leaning towards all through the season.

Cmon bruh. Lakers are great at keeping things secret. They werent telling anyone they were leaning on Okafor, that was mere speculation. I feel like Lakers are learning how to become modern and went with the PG with potential over a center who cant rebound or defend.

[Dr Seuss]

what a fvcking time, fam!!! :lol


op, suck on this :banana:


and here here to the OG supporters!!

[AirTupac]

**** yall

:applause:

[ralph_i_el]

Even if his absolute max ceiling is low (with his athleticism he's never going to be a Kobe/MJ/Wade guard), guys with his mental game have the benefit of having a very high floor, and the ability to play an extremely long career at a high level. Look at Steve Nash.

[IncarceratedBob]

Even if his absolute max ceiling is low (with his athleticism he's never going to be a Kobe/MJ/Wade guard), guys with his mental game have the benefit of having a very high floor, and the ability to play an extremely long career at a high level. Look at Steve Nash.
How important is athleticism, really? Steph isn't the athlete that Kobe or Wade is and he's playing better than either ever did.

[AirTupac]

How important is athleticism, really? Steph isn't the athlete that Kobe or Wade is and he's playing better than either ever did.

Athletcism is why Curry is never gonna be on their level because he cant be anything other than an average defender.

[Levity]

Boom Shakalaka!!!!

[Braincells]

Forgot about this thread.

I respect the OP and his opinion, but he has some explaining to do.

[Levity]

Forgot about this thread.

I respect the OP and his opinion, but he has some explaining to do.

OP confused lack of aggression + over thinking + tentativeness for 0 athleticism and constantly shoved it down everyones throat.

[TheMarkMadsen]

oh look another poster who thought D Russ sucked because he didn't drop 30/5/5 in his debut

:facepalm :facepalm

[Kawhi]

Russell has bad debut: OP is overreacting and more so of that bla, bla, bla
Russell has a good game: Haha, look at how wrong OP is!

Hypocrisy at it's finest.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Russell has bad debut: OP is overreacting and more so of that bla, bla, bla
Russell has a good game: Haha, look at how wrong OP is!

Hypocrisy at it's finest.


:facepalm :facepalm

19/2/5 on 60% TS since the all star break

24/2/4 on 59% TS this month

I said this over and over, grading a 19 year old point guard off his first month in the league is beyond stupid as shit. Nash took years to develop and Russ isn't the most athletic player in the world so it was always going to take time for him to get used to NBA speed.

[Dr Seuss]

Russell has bad debut: OP is overreacting and more so of that bla, bla, bla
Russell has a good game: Haha, look at how wrong OP is!

Hypocrisy at it's finest.

so in other words, not hypocrisy :lol

[Kawhi]

:facepalm :facepalm

19/2/5 on 60% TS since the all star break

24/2/4 on 59% TS this month

I said this over and over, grading a 19 year old point guard off his first month in the league is beyond stupid as shit. Nash took years to develop and Russ isn't the most athletic player in the world so it was always going to take time for him to get used to NBA speed.
He's had as many good games as he's had bad ones. Laughing at the OP because Russell plays half decent for a month is just as much of an overreaction as it was when Russell started the season slow.

Hell, just five days ago he posted a statline of 7 points, 5 assists, and 2 rebounds in over 30 minutes, shooting 19% from the field with 5 turnovers. You're as good as your last game here on ISH.

[Dr Seuss]

He's had as many good games as he has bad ones. Laughing at the OP because Russell plays half decent for a month is just as much of an overreaction as it was when Russell started the season slow.

Hell, just five days ago he posted a statline of 7 points, 5 assists, and 2 rebounds in over 30 minutes, shooting 19% from the field with 5 turnovers. You're as good as your last game here on ISH.

"19/2/5 on 60% TS since the all star break

24/2/4 on 59% TS this month"

that's half decent?

and i can understand where youre coming from if i didnt take context into consideration.

[TheMarkMadsen]

He's had as many good games as he has bad ones. Laughing at the OP because Russell plays half decent for a month is just as much of an overreaction as it was when Russell started the season slow.

Hell, just five days ago he posted a statline of 7 points, 5 assists, and 2 rebounds in over 30 minutes, shooting 19% from the field with 5 turnovers. You're as good as your last game here on ISH.


Changing your tune now, went from "only one good game" to something different

He's 19 and is putting up close to 20 ppg with 5 apg on 60% TS since the all star break.. you know how many 19 year old point guards have done that? Every young player struggles at times, but doing what he's doing at this age for his position isn't something you see very much at all.

He's been showing flashes of greatness and that is exactly what you'd expect to see from a player with high potential.

Anybody who watches this kid play and doesn't see the potential needs to get checked out.


Hell, just five days ago he posted a statline of 7 points, 5 assists, and 2 rebounds in over 30 minutes, shooting 19% from the field with 5 turnovers.

so what? He's a rookie, rookies have bad games and aren't always consistent. He bounced back after that game with b2b 20+ pt games


You're as good as your last game here on ISH.

27pts on 58% shooting his last game so I'd say he's pretty good :confusedshrug: :confusedshrug:

[Kawhi]

"19/2/5 on 60% TS since the all star break

24/2/4 on 59% TS this month"

that's half decent?

and i can understand where youre coming from if i didnt take context into consideration.
Stop taking things literally. At the begging of the season, Laker fans were calling for Buss' head because the next Kwame Brown had arrived to L.A., now he's the second coming of Magic Johnson himself. What is that? Indeed. Overreaction. If he goes into that same mode as he did in the beginning of the year, which isn't unthinkable, since Russell is a rookie and rookies are inconsistent as hell, he'll be considered a wasted pick, and Okafor was the one they should've selected. You can't evaluate if OP is right or wrong for ~two years minimum.

The only real deal I've seen as far as rookies go, is Towns. Russell, Okafor, Porzingis, whoever, is yet to be determined.

[Dr Seuss]

Stop taking things literally. At the begging of the season, Laker fans were calling for Buss' head because the next Kwame Brown had arrived to L.A., now he's the second coming of Magic Johnson himself. If he goes into that same mode as he did in the beginning of the year, which isn't unthinkable, since Russell is a rookie and rookies are inconsistent as hell, he'll be considered a wasted pick, and Okafor was the one they should've selected. You can't evaluate if OP is right or wrong for ~two years minimum.

The only real deal I've seen as far as rookies go, is Towns. Russell, Okafor, Porzingis, whoever, is yet to be determined.

i absolutely can because OP ignorantly harped on one thing, slow feet. that has proven to not be true. this whole thread was that russel would be limited as a pro and would never be an iso scorer because he was too damn slow, which limited his ceilng

thats been proven to be wrong. russel has a great change of pace that has broken down a handful of defenders. teams are even playing a foot off him for some reason, allowing him to drain open 3s.

[mehyaM24]

op looking sillier each and every game.

d'angelo will be an allstar in this league, AT WORST. :oldlol:

[ClipperRevival]

I just re-read my OP post and don't see anything that is way off. I mentioned his positive traits like shooting form looking right, good passer, good feel for the game and good size.

What we have seen is that his natural feel for the game appears to be better than just good. He maximizes his talents because he's in tune with what is going on and not playing like a lost puppy. His shot looks great and I always said his shot looked right and he had a chance to be a very good shooter.

I must admit one thing though, I sometimes put too much emphasis on athleticism. I always just assume that if a player is gifted athleticially, they will try hard to maximize their talents. But that's just not the case and as Russ proved, the intangibles like feel for the game and vision are also important.

Also, I was viewing Russell as the #2 pick and #2 picks are supposed to be superstars. And the superstar I wanted was a dominant, iso scoring guard who can break down set defenders. If Russ does it sort of the Magic way with feel for the game, antipcation, vision and skill instead of overwhleming athleticism, that's fine as long as he's getting it done.

Bottom line is I am a Laker fan and I am glad he is doing well and hopes he keeps it up.

[Kawhi]

i absolutely can because OP ignorantly harped on one thing, slow feet. that has proven to not be true. this whole thread was that russel would be limited as a pro and would never be an iso scorer because he was too damn slow, which limited his ceilng

thats been proven to be wrong. russel has a great change of pace that has broken down a handful of defenders. teams are even playing a foot off him for some reason, allowing him to drain open 3s.
We don't even know Russell's floor nor ceiling yet. It's yet to be determined. Tyreke Evans was destined for greatness after his rookie season, now he's an in-and-out player for the Pelicans. Same thing could happen to Russell, nobody knows.

The '15 draft knows only one sure thing: Towns. No one else.

[Dr Seuss]

We don't even know Russell's floor nor ceiling yet.

then why are you so adamantly defending OP who made a thread saying Russel's ceiling is LOW? just like defending nonsense?

[Kawhi]

then why are you so adamantly defending OP who made a thread saying Russel's ceiling is LOW? just like defending nonsense?
My point isn't about the OP, it's about the overreaction regarding Russell and his first few games in the league, and his last few games in the league. Just look on the first page in the Main Forum.

'D'Bustelo Bustell' - overreaction, apparently

D'Angelo proving he's not a bust' - not an overreaction, the savior has arrived.

[ClipperRevival]

My point isn't about the OP, it's about the overreaction regarding Russell and his first few games in the league, and his last few games in the league. Just look on the first page in the Main Forum.

'D'Bustelo Bustell' - overreaction, apparently

D'Angelo proving he's not a bust - not an overreaction, the savior has arrived.

True. The real test will come next season and the next, etc, when defenses have more scouting to work with and see how he handles it. That is when the lack of athleticism can come into play, when the D figures out your tendencies. People do overract a lot.

[Braincells]

Curry's lack of athleticism sure is limiting him out there. And Brandon Roy was such scrub. /sarcasm

It's unfortunate I responded to this thread.

[FKAri]

"19/2/5 on 60% TS since the all star break

24/2/4 on 59% TS this month"

that's half decent?

and i can understand where youre coming from if i didnt take context into consideration.

Not half decent. That's scrubtacular. Those are worse numbers than Anthony Davis and ISH tells me he's a bum.

[Rooster]

I just re-read my OP post and don't see anything that is way off. I mentioned his positive traits like shooting form looking right, good passer, good feel for the game and good size.

What we have seen is that his natural feel for the game appears to be better than just good. He maximizes his talents because he's in tune with what is going on and not playing like a lost puppy. His shot looks great and I always said his shot looked right and he had a chance to be a very good shooter.

I must admit one thing though, I sometimes put too much emphasis on athleticism. I always just assume that if a player is gifted athleticially, they will try hard to maximize their talents. But that's just not the case and as Russ proved, the intangibles like feel for the game and vision are also important.

Also, I was viewing Russell as the #2 pick and #2 picks are supposed to be superstars. And the superstar I wanted was a dominant, iso scoring guard who can break down set defenders. If Russ does it sort of the Magic way with feel for the game, antipcation, vision and skill instead of overwhleming athleticism, that's fine as long as he's getting it done.

Bottom line is I am a Laker fan and I am glad he is doing well and hopes he keeps it up.

I don't think you were way off because I was seeing the same thing from summer league and at the beginning of the season. What I did not see was Mitch said that he was not on basketball shape because their agent usually prevent them from playing games, just bunch of workouts before the draft so he struggled getting into the flow and of course NBA is on another level. But I do know you are high on this kid before the draft and I wanted the Lakers to grab Okafor. I should have known from the beginning that Jerry West knows talent when he see one.

[ralph_i_el]

Curry's lack of athleticism sure is limiting him out there. And Brandon Roy was such scrub. /sarcasm

It's unfortunate I responded to this thread.

way more players are held back due to lack of athleticism than the few that become stars in spite of it.

I'm still high on Russell, but completely dismissing athleticism is inaccurate.

For every Curry there are multiple Jimmers

[ClipperRevival]

Curry's lack of athleticism sure is limiting him out there. And Brandon Roy was such scrub. /sarcasm

It's unfortunate I responded to this thread.

Curry isn't explosive like a WB or Rose but he is very quick and has suddenness. Also, there was an article a few weeks back on ESPN and the guy who trains him said Curry had the best central nervous system he had ever seen meaning off the charts coordination and reflexes. That might explain why he is so good from deep because he has great control of his muscle movements. So what you have is a very quick, coordinated and fluid athlete. Curry is much more athletic than Russell. They aren't even in the same ball park.

[ClipperRevival]

I don't think you were way off because I was seeing the same thing from summer league and at the beginning of the season. What I did not see was Mitch said that he was not on basketball shape because their agent usually prevent them from playing games, just bunch of workouts before the draft so he struggled getting into the flow and of course NBA is on another level. But I do know you are high on this kid before the draft and I wanted the Lakers to grab Okafor. I should have known from the beginning that Jerry West knows talent when he see one.

Yeah, but I do tend to overvalue athleticism a little too much. I need to pay more attention to just game and whether a guy can play the game. But in a vaccum, I still want the guy with the superior athletcism most of the time. In a perfect world, Russell would have better athleticism but we can just hope that he has that next level feel for the game, vision and iq which overcomes some of that. But I am not completely sold on him either. Once the league learns his tendencies, that is when his heavy feet might hinder him.

[FKAri]

What's the difference between quickness and explosiveness?

[ClipperRevival]

What's the difference between quickness and explosiveness?

Quickness is suddenness in tight spaces and the ability to quickly change directions.

Explosiveness is just natural, God given explosivness off the floor once you plant and explode.

Curry is better than WB in tight spaces. WB isn't the type to change directions multiple times in a sequence but more of a one plant and explode type guy going in one direction while Curry is always on his toes and able to change multiple directions quickly. That's how he loses guys. Of course if he didn't have the handles it wouldn't matter but he is very quick. He has very light feet. And you can't teach light feet, fluidity, coordination or reflexes and he has them all.

[sammichoffate]

What's the difference between quickness and explosiveness?Explosiveness implies transferring strength into power as fast as possible, quickness implies changing from one frame of motion to another as fast as possible. Steph Curry is quick, he's not the most explosive. James White is explosive, he's not the quickest.

[sammichoffate]

Quickness is suddenness in tight spaces and the ability to quickly change directions.

Explosiveness is just natural, God given explosivness off the floor once you plant and explode.

Curry is better than WB in tight spaces. WB isn't the type to change directions multiple times in a sequence but more of a one plant and explode type guy going in one direction while Curry is always on his toes and able to change multiple directions quickly. That's how he loses guys. Of course if he didn't have the handles it wouldn't matter but he is very quick. He has very light feet. And you can't teach light feet, fluidity, coordination or reflexes and he has them all.You can, it's just hard af because you're literally training your nervous system to fire faster compared to actual muscles.

[ClipperRevival]

You can, it's just hard af because you're literally training your nervous system to fire faster compared to actual muscles.

You can improve a tad. If you are a 5, you might go to 6 but a 5 isn't going to hit a 9. A solid NBA athlete can train every day for eternity and never have the explosiveness of a WB. They don't say, "you can't teach athleticism" for nothing. It's true.

[Nick Young]

3'Angelo Bucketsdale's ceiling is Magic Johnson with a jumpshot as sweet as Curry's

[Ranked 12th]

LeBron never had much athleticism, but he was still able to pull off 30+ PER seasons.

Why can't Russell?


Skill > athleticism

[plowking]

OP is generally a shitty poster regardless of how wrong he was in the OP.

[knicksman]

How can you doubt a guy who relies on his skills than athleticism? And the guy is competitive. Same mentality as kobe/curry.

[AirTupac]

Idiot OP.

[AirTupac]

I'm sure some of you noticed that I was yapping about how great he was going to be prior to summer league. But you have to keep in mind that my evaluation of him was based purely on Youtube videos. I had never seen him live. And after seeing him live for the first time in summer league, I realized how heavy his feet were. That's something the Youtube videos don't show because they don't show him moving around the court doing the normal things, like change directions, plant and explode, slide laterally, etc. They only show his good points. If you had given me 10 minutes to evaluate this guy live, I would've seen this. But the Youtube videos hid this.

So here is a somewhat quick breakdown of his positives/negatives and overview:

Positives: Great court vision and passer. He really sees the floor better than most people and is able to anticipate the action at times. He does have a good feel for the game. His shot also looks right. I still think he has a chance to be a very good 3 point shooter. Also has good size/length.

Negatives: : Heavy feet. This guy has very heavy feet. It's like he's dragging his feet every time he moves. That's a huge no-no in basketball. The guy has no initial quickness and no suddenness to his step. And that impacts almost everything you do in basketball. He'll never be able to consistently break down set defenders on iso because of this. He is a complete liability on P&R defense because his heavy feet makes it hard for him to fight through picks. He is always switching because of this.

Overview: It pains me to say this but his ceiling is limited. His heavy feet and lack of any suddenness really limits his ceiling. His ceiling is a great passing PG who can get his teammates involved with possibly a great outside shot but that's about it. He'll never be a dominant, iso scorer who can break down set defenders and carry an offense. Again, it pains me to say this as a Laker fan but this is the truth. I hope I am completely wrong and someone can bump this in the future and say I was an idiot but it's not hard to see. His heavy feet limits his ceiling. It's that simple. This is the highest level and you might get away with heavy feet in any other league but not he NBA.

O SHIT U CALLED IT LOL :roll:

[ISHGoat]

O SHIT U CALLED IT LOL :roll:

Dangelo is trash, what are you melting down for?

[AirTupac]

Dangelo is trash, what are you melting down for?

> Sophmore whos going to average over 20 ppg

LOOL idiot

[ISHGoat]

> Sophmore whos going to average over 20 ppg

LOOL idiot

How is he going to average over 20ppg?

[Nick Young]

Clippers fans wouldn't recognize talent if it punched them in the face:roll:

[AirTupac]

How is he going to average over 20ppg?

Cause he's a baller and the game is easy to him. Already averaging it MORON :roll:

[ISHGoat]

DAngelo was -5 for the game. Shot a kobe-esque 7/16.

1 ****ing rebound in 30 minutes. Same assists as turnovers.

It was a decent game. Good game considering he's a second year. But youre a dumb ass and you need to calm down. Lakers were playing the rockets and DAngelo will go back to scrubbing it up against a real team that dosent have 130 possessions per game.

[AirTupac]

DAngelo was -5 for the game. Shot a kobe-esque 7/16.

1 ****ing rebound in 30 minutes. Same assists as turnovers.

It was a decent game. Good game considering he's a second year. But youre a dumb ass and you need to calm down. Lakers were playing the rockets and DAngelo will go back to scrubbing it up against a real team that dosent have 130 possessions per game.

He had most of his points in the 1st half and cooled down lmfao. Typical idiot stats reader. D'Angelo will drop 30 next game :facepalm

[ISHGoat]

He had most of his points in the 1st half and cooled down lmfao. Typical idiot stats reader. D'Angelo will drop 30 next game :facepalm

DAngelo will be lucky to score double digits next game.

You call me an idiot stats reader yet youre claiming he'll average 20 ppg based on scoring 20 points (on net negative impact) against Harden and Mike Fking Dantoni

[Dr Seuss]

said it last year and ill say it again. OP is an idiot who bases his opinions of players off snap judgments.

[AirTupac]

DAngelo will be lucky to score double digits next game.

You call me an idiot stats reader yet youre claiming he'll average 20 ppg based on scoring 20 points (on net negative impact) against Harden and Mike Fking Dantoni

D'Angelo averaged WITH EASE 21 ppg just a week ago over a course of how many games? LOL you arent an athlete kid.

[ISHGoat]

D'Angelo averaged WITH EASE 21 ppg just a week ago over a course of how many games? LOL you arent an athlete kid.

Youre an idiot. I'm not an athlete. Neither is DAngelo. :roll:

[AirTupac]

Youre an idiot. I'm not an athlete. Neither is DAngelo. :roll:

D'Angelo is the athlete thats averaging over 20 ppg the last month and a half :lol Moron

[ISHGoat]

D'Angelo is the athlete thats averaging over 20 ppg the last month and a half :lol Moron

It's October. Calm down idiot

[CTbasketball92]

I still haven't seen a glimpse of actual dynamic talent from Russell. Not super creative getting to the basket and he's still too reliant on his jumper. He's a crafty guard, but zero explosiveness. His passing looks average, and it doesn't look like he's explosive enough to create angles to get teammates easy looks at the basket?

He's not bad, though.

[ISHGoat]

I still haven't seen a glimpse of actual dynamic talent from Russell. Not super creative getting to the basket and he's still too reliant on his jumper. He's a crafty guard, but zero explosiveness. His passing looks average, and it doesn't look like he's explosive enough to create angles to get teammates easy looks at the basket?

He's not bad, though.

DAngelo "Hes not bad though" Russell