Draft Kings corruption?

[niko]

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/06/sports/fanduel-draftkings-fantasy-employees-bet-rivals.html?_r=0

Draft Kings response was about the stupidest thing they could have done btw. They should have said "we will be researching things as heavily as possible", instead they said "nothing is wrong, don't worry". Which means the govt. will be there in a second...

There's a shitload of ways they can cheat btw. insider info, late bets (allowing changes, entries in late), changing the amounts of bets when it's clear someone is winning, disallowing entries (Brady is your QB, just found out he's not playing), etc.

Also sounds like people might be getting inside info from teams and using it to bet. This is going to be fun...

BTW, i know some of you reflexively will say it's all ok, but if someone is rigging the system, unless that's you, I wouldn't want to play.

[warriorfan]

Draft kings has been exposed a few times with shady shit and they always say it was a glitch. the most convenient glitches ever...

That shit is crooked.

[niko]

There's no way they can ignore a NY Times article. Shit about to hit the fan. It's started that slow burn. Wait for the first senator to talk on it soon.

[Nanners]

I won around $500 on fanduel last year, but I am done with daily fantasy for now.

In addition to shady stuff like the insider trading in the OP link, a huge percentage of the lineups you play against on these sites are lineups that were automatically generated by some computer algorithm. So you arent just playing against other people, but the majority of your opponents are basically just robot lignups that were automatically created by some mathematician.

Also the commercials are annoying as **** and borderline fraudulent (no they dont really match your initial deposit). I dont want to give these assholes more money so they can bombard me with even more bullshit ads. I also hate how the commentators talk about daily fantasy during the game broadcasts... **** that shit pisses me off.

[Hit_Em]

i remember when condia changed his lineup somehow for a much better lineups during the games on fanduel and they thought no one would notice lol.Them sites been a scam.They can just create a account and give him all the best players so he can win the top prizes in the big tournaments.No one would ever even know cause its no way you can follow anyone from the start of the games til the finish + there be like 400k people in the tournament.No one regulates them either so if they are doing this no 1 would even know unless someone who works for them admits it.

[Akrazotile]

Their commercials are so obnoxious and tasteless. Never would give them my business in the first place. The operation just reeks of sketch.

[Derka]

Online gambling and corruption? I'm shocked and amazed.

[~primetime~]

I love draft kings, heavily addicted, I'm up $300+ so far this year...I'll beat the shit out of some bots

That insider trading needs to stop though...fck that

[~primetime~]

they are governing themselves, they will smarten up
dont worry :cheers:

I know you're being sarcastic but I think they will stop...this is a multi-billion dollar industry and they don't want it to get frozen like online poker did. They are stinking rich without the insider trading, I'm sure they are telling their employees that they better cut that shit out.

[DukeDelonte13]

Online gambling and corruption? I'm shocked and amazed.


this.


online gambling is for highschoolers with mom's credit card and idiots.

[niko]

I know you're being sarcastic but I think they will stop...this is a multi-billion dollar industry and they don't want it to get frozen like online poker did. They are stinking rich without the insider trading, I'm sure they are telling their employees that they better cut that shit out.

That won't work. They need to put safeguards and transparency into the system. This is gambling. People who gamble will do anything to make money off it. I can think of 20 different ways to cheat the system if I could get access to people there. They either are going to announce all the new safeguards and transparency or the govt is going to step in like an atomic bomb.

The issue here isn't the employees cheating, it's that there's no way to stop cheating. Employees can just call their friends and give out info. And also, who is to say someone isn;t hacking the system? Making late changes and changing the clock.

I'd be careful on putting my money in that until this gets settled. These stories tend to break worse and worse, not the other way around.

[~primetime~]

That won't work. They need to put safeguards and transparency into the system. This is gambling. People who gamble will do anything to make money off it. I can think of 20 different ways to cheat the system if I could get access to people there. They either are going to announce all the new safeguards and transparency or the govt is going to step in like an atomic bomb.

The issue here isn't the employees cheating, it's that there's no way to stop cheating. Employees can just call their friends and give out info. And also, who is to say someone isn;t hacking the system? Making late changes and changing the clock.

I'd be careful on putting my money in that until this gets settled. These stories tend to break worse and worse, not the other way around.
They can't change lineups after the games have started, you can see every lineup.

Employees with valuable info can always inside trade, just like the stock market. And like the stock market it needs to be regulated.

I do think this thing is getting too big for it's own good and will eventually be shut down by the gov just like online poker was.

[BasedTom]

sports betting is big in the UK, unless fanduel and draftkings monumentally fucc up (as this would seem to imply), i don't see why they shouldn't be allowed to function. Annoying adverts and sponsorships everywhere notwithstanding.

[niko]

They can't change lineups after the games have started, you can see every lineup.

Employees with valuable info can always inside trade, just like the stock market. And like the stock market it needs to be regulated.

I do think this thing is getting too big for it's own good and will eventually be shut down by the gov just like online poker was.
Don't get me wrong, i don't think it needs to disappear. Not my cup of tea but it looks fun. But people are giving it too much the benefit of the doubt, people cheat at gambling. People cheat at business done electronically with money. This is both, with a very young worker base and little safeguards. It has to be corrupt as ****.

I'd think this would all shake out and be the same but highly regulated.

[Millslapped]

i hope they cut the employee shit out. it's pretty fun to win money on there and track ur lineups all day. if they cut that shit out we'll be cool
im okay with it being regulated too so everything is made to be fair

[DeuceWallaces]

Disney pulling out of sponsored segments, but they're keeping advertisements on the air; for now.

[Jailblazers7]

You can bet they will face a ton of pressure to clean up internal and have greater transparency. They have basically ever major sports league and a lot of franchises invested as partners now to try to expand their sports and they will not take corruption lightly.

I still see no way that this shit doesn't get regulated by the government at some point. Especially with the way this country is about sports gambling.

[Sarcastic]

i hope they cut the employee shit out. it's pretty fun to win money on there and track ur lineups all day. if they cut that shit out we'll be cool
im okay with it being regulated too so everything is made to be fair

What's to keep the employees from telling their friends who to play?

It has to have complete oversight for it to be fair.

[Millslapped]

You can bet they will face a ton of pressure to clean up internal and have greater transparency. They have basically ever major sports league and a lot of franchises invested as partners now to try to expand their sports and they will not take corruption lightly.

I still see no way that this shit doesn't get regulated by the government at some point. Especially with the way this country is about sports gambling.
yeah there's way too much money involved for them to risk losing it because of employees ****ing around

[niko]

BTW, it's coming out that the stats they give don't foot (the pct of people chosen doesn't equal if you drill down into the data) and also that some very random performers showed up for a majority of winners in some week (like some random kicker no one knew had a few FG's and magically people expected it).

:lol we've just started down the rabbit hole.

[UK2K]

All they have to do is allow everyone to see the players picked in what % of lineups before the games start.

You could tell me who is in everyones lineup, and I wouldnt change a thing, simply because if I thought those guys were going to do well, I'd have picked them myself.

Yes it is an advantage, but its not nearly as big as everyone is making it out to be, IMO.

[niko]

BTW, people who gamble are funny, they are so protective of it. Me, i'd remove my money. Them, it's NO. IT'S OK! IT'S JUST THAT ONE GUY! IT'S NOT CHEATING!

[UK2K]

BTW, people who gamble are funny, they are so protective of it. Me, i'd remove my money. Them, it's NO. IT'S OK! IT'S JUST THAT ONE GUY! IT'S NOT CHEATING!

Haven't seen anyone excusing the behavior. Have you?

EDIT: Other than DK themselves, who said he did no wrong. He didn't kind of, in a way, but yet again, he did.

[niko]

All they have to do is allow everyone to see the players picked in what % of lineups before the games start.

You could tell me who is in everyones lineup, and I wouldnt change a thing, simply because if I thought those guys were going to do well, I'd have picked them myself.

Yes it is an advantage, but its not nearly as big as everyone is making it out to be, IMO.

No, you can do a lot knowing which players are underutilized. Make pools with them and if they hit, you're gold. Or you look at the 10 best players and do a mixture of their teams. Or look at a week and see that you're team is played by everyone so it's harder to win, and pull out.

I don't think I'm some kind of genius but I could have craploads of fun with the data and the ability to bet.

[niko]

Haven't seen anyone excusing the behavior. Have you?
Sorry, not the people here. I have friends who do it. And i'm listenign to the radio. My bad. My friends who do it are against the thought that it may not be smart to do even a tiny tiny bit.

[~primetime~]

IMO the only people that really need to worry are those who do this for a living, and there are plenty of them, just like online poker.

A 1% edge is huge over the long run for them...all of Vegas' profits are based around a tiny edge like that.



But for people like me? Who just throw out $100 or so each week? Who cares...I do this mainly for fun, I'm not paying bills with this stuff, winning or losing isn't going to drastically change my life.

[UK2K]

No, you can do a lot knowing which players are underutilized. Make pools with them and if they hit, you're gold. Or you look at the 10 best players and do a mixture of their teams. Or look at a week and see that you're team is played by everyone so it's harder to win, and pull out.

I don't think I'm some kind of genius but I could have craploads of fun with the data and the ability to bet.

You can, but that doesnt make your players play any better.

I know that 90% of the league will pick Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers, so I pick Derek Carr. If Carr doesn't play well, it doesn't do me any good to pick him, regardless of how many people DIDNT pick him.

Yes, its an advantage, but when its all said and done, its still fantasy football and shit happens.

Like I said, you could give me the data of who picked who, and it wouldnt cause me to change my lineup because I picked those specific players for a reason, because they have a good chance of performing well.

[UK2K]

IMO the only people that really need to worry are those who do this for a living, and there are plenty of them, just like online poker.

A 1% edge is huge over the long run for them...all of Vegas' profits are based around a tiny edge like that.



But for people like me? Who just throw out $100 or so each week? Who cares...I do this mainly for fun, I'm not paying bills with this stuff, winning or losing isn't going to drastically change my life.

That's how I see it. If they want to go with (or against) the crowd, fine, I picked my players because I like them, and knowing who everyone else picked isnt going to change my mind.

[niko]

You can, but that doesnt make your players play any better.

I know that 90% of the league will pick Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers, so I pick Derek Carr. If Carr doesn't play well, it doesn't do me any good to pick him, regardless of how many people DIDNT pick him.

Yes, its an advantage, but when its all said and done, its still fantasy football and shit happens.

Like I said, you could give me the data of who picked who, and it wouldnt cause me to change my lineup because I picked those specific players for a reason, because they have a good chance of performing well.
People aren't doing it like you said. They are doing it like math. This is a zero sum game. The person cheating is taking the win that would normally be yours. Your logic seems to be that i cheat and win most of the time, but sometimes something strange will happen and you'll win so it's ok.

Do what you like with your money, but playing a rigged game isn't something I'd recommend. Your assumption is because you don't fully understand how the game is rigged, it must not be too bad. That's not a good strategy in life unless you're some sort of genius.

[~primetime~]

I feel like that data is completely worthless in 50/50s

it is great for tournies though...and that is how the guy won $350k with that info...in a tourny

How are you going to get 1st place if you're playing the same guys everyone else is? You want to play the obscure players and just cross your fingers that they do better than what everyone else went with, it will eventually happen if you keep trying.



They should probably just release the data each week to the public on Saturdays or something. Some players might not give a fck about it, some will. I don't see a point in hiding that info though. In fact I know they have released that data for specific players in the past. Last year I can remember FanDuel saying something like "65% of lineups this week feature Kenny Stills!"

[DeuceWallaces]

No, you can do a lot knowing which players are underutilized. Make pools with them and if they hit, you're gold. Or you look at the 10 best players and do a mixture of their teams. Or look at a week and see that you're team is played by everyone so it's harder to win, and pull out.

I don't think I'm some kind of genius but I could have craploads of fun with the data and the ability to bet.

Yeah, access to that kind of info to use on a competitor's site would be incredible. Give me an hour with all that data in R and I'll be stealing money from the other guys every week.

I mean it's exactly what he did so there's really no argument against it.

[Jailblazers7]

A possible solution would be if the player prices operated like gambling odds where prices changed based on demand for that player. But then they wouldn't be able to fit within the loophole of the legislation because it only works if player prices are set in advance.

[~primetime~]

A possible solution would be if the player prices operated like gambling odds where prices changed based on demand for that player. But then they wouldn't be able to fit within the loophole of the legislation because it only works if player prices are set in advance.
you wouldn't be able to change your lineup then

[niko]

I feel like that data is completely worthless in 50/50s

it is great for tournies though...and that is how the guy won $350k with that info...in a tourny

How are you going to get 1st place if you're playing the same guys everyone else is? You want to play the obscure players and just cross your fingers that they do better than what everyone else went with, it will eventually happen if you keep trying.



They should probably just release the data each week to the public on Saturdays or something. Some players might not give a fck about it, some will. I don't see a point in hiding that info though. In fact I know they have released that data for specific players in the past. Last year I can remember FanDuel saying something like "65% of lineups this week feature Kenny Stills!"
What people are doing is looking for underutilized combinations (using algorithims) that if they hit will win the pool. The thing is, they aren't playing 1. They are playing 30. Out of these 30, a few hit. Because they play 30 their payout isn't as great as you'd get with 1. But you're not winning with 1, because some of their 30 would hit. You're doing player analysis. They are then taking your analysis (since Primetime wins every week) and hedging as best they can so they win. So it's even harder for you to win, because they are using you as a baseline.

It's amazing what you can do with a pc if you're really good at that type of statistical analysis. And if there's things that are obvious to me, who isn't that good at that (i do analysis for a living but I'm not a stat genius) then there must be things I can't even fathom that work even better.

[Nanners]

Its actually pretty easy for any random joe to get a good idea of ownership percentages prior to the games starting.

If you enter in a $1 tourney with all the weekends games (must include thursday), then on thursday night when the tourney starts you will be able to see ownership for all players in that tourney. From there, the ownership percentages for the sunday-monday tourneys should generally be quite similar to the tourneys that include thursday, just without the thursday players.

[niko]

Solution isn't hard, it's just expensive. Horse racing had the same type of scandals before. Lots of transparency, lots of oversight, lots of safeguard. Shitloads of safeguards. They are making money hand over fist and no one wants to lose such a profitable thing but they have to.

[niko]

There seems to be a lot of concern the data they release to the players isn't accurate. Not because they are cheating, just because they aren't updating it enough or checking it for validiity.

[~primetime~]

^^^ they have "single entry" tournies where you are only allowed to enter one lineup. In case you are worried about that.

Using info on the best players is great though for sure...no one should be doing that.



You can also just go head-to-head with people...if you do it early you know they won't have any info

[NuggetsFan]

No doubt these sites are sketchy and at this point something's clearly up. I just play H2H and smaller leagues on fanduel. I'm up 257.90 right now from 30 dollars. Whenever I've lost it's been because I've picked a shitty lineup. When your only facing 1-20 other players alot of these things don't really matter :confusedshrug:

I'm pretty sure I've lost on every big tourny I've played. A 277 person tourny is probably the biggest one I've actually ever won money on and it was like 50 bucks so doubt employee's were going all out cheating for something like that :lol

[niko]

We all lost out. There were ways to game this (legally) and make serious money but that's probably going to go by the wayside with greater regulation.

[~primetime~]

No doubt these sites are sketchy and at this point something's clearly up. I just play H2H and smaller leagues on fanduel. I'm up 257.90 right now from 30 dollars. Whenever I've lost it's been because I've picked a shitty lineup. When your only facing 1-20 other players alot of these things don't really matter :confusedshrug:

I'm pretty sure I've lost on every big tourny I've played. A 277 person tourny is probably the biggest one I've actually ever won money on and it was like 50 bucks so doubt employee's were going all out cheating for something like that :lol
yeah I don't think any of this info can effect small 50/50s

It's large tournies that get effected

[niko]

^^^ they have "single entry" tournies where you are only allowed to enter one lineup. In case you are worried about that.

Using info on the best players is great though for sure...no one should be doing that.



You can also just go head-to-head with people...if you do it early you know they won't have any info
They just need to clean it up. I know so many people who would feel like they lost part of their weekend if this went away. DraftKings wants it to be on the trust system based on what they say which is ridiculous.

[UK2K]

People aren't doing it like you said. They are doing it like math. This is a zero sum game. The person cheating is taking the win that would normally be yours. Your logic seems to be that i cheat and win most of the time, but sometimes something strange will happen and you'll win so it's ok.

Do what you like with your money, but playing a rigged game isn't something I'd recommend. Your assumption is because you don't fully understand how the game is rigged, it must not be too bad. That's not a good strategy in life unless you're some sort of genius.

No I do understand, but what I am saying is, it doesn't affect the players.

You could know all the %'s in the world, and if your player sucks, you still lose.

We can go H2H, one on one in a league, and I will gladly tell you who I picked ahead of time, because it doesnt change the fact that I think those guys will perform the best given their value.

Check this out, 80% of people will have Rodgers or Brady as their QB this week. There, you have insider knowledge. Now go pick Cam Newton. No? Because picking against the crowd doesn't guarantee you anything if the players you picked don't perform well.

I get its an advantage, but if the Little Giants know the playbook of the New England Patriots, that doesn't guarantee them a win. Does it give them an advantage over not having it? Sure it does, but the advantage isn't as great as you are trying to make it out to be.

What you can do with that information, is find guys who are not highly valued by the general population (and thus not chosen by many) and pick those guys, so in the event they do go off, you have a better chance of winning. I can do the same thing with preseason odds of winning the superbowl. The odds of the Jags winning were astronomical, that doesn't mean I'd bet on them.

Not to mention he didn't even bet on the same site as he won on (he was DK, he won on FD) so the information wasn't ENTIRELY accurate (although pretty close). The point is, your players have to perform regardless of how many people they are chosen by.

[~primetime~]

It needs to be like class-3 games in Vegas...highly regulated

it eventually will get that way too I think...too much money involved



what I predict is that the gov will do the same that happened to online poker...everything will get shut down, then a highly regulated version will come out later.

[NuggetsFan]

yeah I don't think any of this info can effect small 50/50s

It's large tournies that get effected

Yup. The big money stuff is probably really sketchy. IMO I never even understood how people won consistently there. So many people, so many multiple teams, so many bots, so much cheating apparently too. Going up against alot.

Fanduel you have 50/50's, H2H's, and smaller leagues that really wouldn't be affected by any of the complaints most people have, maybe bots.

[UK2K]

Yup. The big money stuff is probably really sketchy. IMO I never even understood how people won consistently there. So many people, so many multiple teams, so many bots, so much cheating apparently too. Going up against alot.

Fanduel you have 50/50's, H2H's, and smaller leagues that really wouldn't be affected by any of the complaints most people have, maybe bots.

DK has the same thing. I play in a $20 12 person league every week. I throw $3 here and there at the super pots, but never come close to winning any.

[NuggetsFan]

DK has the same thing. I play in a $20 12 person league every week.

I haven't played draftkings this year. I wasn't sure if they had those league games. I didn't play them last year. I usually do 3 person ones now and shit like this doesn't affect me at all.

[Nanners]

I dont see why you guys think the bots arent entering the smaller leagues and 50/50s.

If I had a decent fantasy betting bot I would be placing bets in every single tourney on the website.

[niko]

No I do understand, but what I am saying is, it doesn't affect the players.

You could know all the %'s in the world, and if your player sucks, you still lose.

We can go H2H, one on one in a league, and I will gladly tell you who I picked ahead of time, because it doesnt change the fact that I think those guys will perform the best given their value.

Check this out, 80% of people will have Rodgers or Brady as their QB this week. There, you have insider knowledge. Now go pick Cam Newton. No? Because picking against the crowd doesn't guarantee you anything if the players you picked don't perform well.

I get its an advantage, but if the Little Giants know the playbook of the New England Patriots, that doesn't guarantee them a win. Does it give them an advantage over not having it? Sure it does, but the advantage isn't as great as you are trying to make it out to be.

What you can do with that information, is find guys who are not highly valued by the general population (and thus not chosen by many) and pick those guys, so in the event they do go off, you have a better chance of winning. I can do the same thing with preseason odds of winning the superbowl. The odds of the Jags winning were astronomical, that doesn't mean I'd bet on them.

Not to mention he didn't even bet on the same site as he won on (he was DK, he won on FD) so the information wasn't ENTIRELY accurate (although pretty close). The point is, your players have to perform regardless of how many people they are chosen by.
You're not listening. People are taking your information, and using it to make combinations (several) that have a higher pct of winning than you do. You can't beat that longterm. We are competing, and you have to hit exactly, and i can win even if you do well, because I have you, and prime, and everyone, but changed up a little to have higher odds.

You're arguing that something that someone did that worked, and works every week, doesn't work well. :confusedshrug:

[niko]

It needs to be like class-3 games in Vegas...highly regulated

it eventually will get that way too I think...too much money involved



what I predict is that the gov will do the same that happened to online poker...everything will get shut down, then a highly regulated version will come out later.

I'd bet yahoo or google. Try to see who they purchase.

[9erempiree]

I do H2H.

Tourneys are for chumps and its really like the lottery but they try to pass it off as skill. Football is going to football.

[~primetime~]

I dont see why you guys think the bots arent entering the smaller leagues and 50/50s.

If I had a decent fantasy betting bot I would be placing bets in every single tourney on the website.
I'm not scared of playing against bots or algorithms in a small group. If the bots lineups are based on what the best players are doing? kinda fcked up I guess, but I'm still not scared of that.

Would be scared of that in a large field though

[NuggetsFan]

I dont see why you guys think the bots arent entering the smaller leagues and 50/50s.

If I had a decent fantasy betting bot I would be placing bets in every single tourney on the website.

They probably are. Some guys have an absurd amount of wins. You can check the stats before you enter a contest and see how many wins they have tho. Even than I've went up against some of them and won and like I said when I've lost I really can't blame anybody but myself for taking stupid risks.

3 person league, H2H, 11 players or stuff like that, I dunno, don't see how you can cheat. At that point it's more about picking a great/better lineup. I could have went with the best projected lineup this week but didn't and took some risks.

In leagues where guys have 20 teams per person, sketchy shit like knowing who has who is taking place, thousands of dollars are at stake than yeah that's the definition of rigged.

[~primetime~]

Employees are not allowed to play on their own platform though...that is why the DK guy had to trade info with someone at Fanduel...because he wasn't allowed to use his own info...they both took each other's info and placed bets on competitor's sites.

[Nanners]

I'm not scared of playing against bots or algorithms in a small group. If the bots lineups are based on what the best players are doing? kinda fcked up I guess, but I'm still not scared of that.

Would be scared of that in a large field though
Its not about being "scared", I just dont think its fun to play against bots. The knowledge that I am playing against bots and not humans completely ruins the experience for me. I dont want to spend my time betting against bots.

[Millslapped]

I was in a big tourney this week and I honestly could have won a lot of money if I didn't talk myself out of a decision. I still won $20 even then though.

[~primetime~]

Its not about being "scared", I just dont think its fun to play against bots. The knowledge that I am playing against bots and not humans completely ruins the experience for me. I dont want to spend my time betting against bots.
I couldn't care less who I win money from...that means nothing to me

If anything rather take DK's money than a human's

[NuggetsFan]

I do H2H.


You can create leagues with friends only. We could do an ISH league. If we did that I'd have no problem showing my lineup before the game started. I actually noticed last year chasing sleepers or avoiding guys everyone was taking was actually kinda stupid. It could potentially be an advantage. Show your cards and hope it forces the other guy to avoid the really awesome picks.

In a big tourny that kills you tho. I'd just avoid the big money stuff/tons of people shit until it gets figured out, if it ever actually does.

[~primetime~]

I was in a big tourney this week and I honestly could have won a lot of money if I didn't talk myself out of a decision. I still won $20 even then though.
yeah, if you pick the right guys it doesn't matter


last week I placed 73 overall out of 5,730...beat the shit out of all those algorithms.

[9erempiree]

We've come a long way to what fantasy use to be. It use to be a bunch of guys doing it and now its a corporate thing. We use to do it on a board and keep track of players on draft and game days manually.

Now we have software interfaces that make it so easy for the unsuspecting coworker. Make it look easy so we can increase our pots.

It's done on an enormous scale now. It really doesn't surprise me anymore.

[code green]

Yup. The big money stuff is probably really sketchy. IMO I never even understood how people won consistently there. So many people, so many multiple teams, so many bots, so much cheating apparently too. Going up against alot.

Fanduel you have 50/50's, H2H's, and smaller leagues that really wouldn't be affected by any of the complaints most people have, maybe bots.


In the 2 seasons I've used DraftKings, I've won more games than I've lost. I'm certainly not big time, just someone that loves fantasy sports and the research behind it. I'll throw in $25, and enter 50/50s every week just to try doubling it. I've got to $400 last season before I withdrew most of it, and I'm at $100 so far this season.

They get around regulations because they call themselves a "skill based contest" as opposed to gambling. They had Bill Burr advertise the website on his weekly podcast, but eventually cancelled the agreement because Bill kept making jokes about people losing all of their money on it. They sent him a letter that explained the "skill based contest" concept and he read it out loud.

[UK2K]

You're not listening. People are taking your information, and using it to make combinations (several) that have a higher pct of winning than you do. You can't beat that longterm. We are competing, and you have to hit exactly, and i can win even if you do well, because I have you, and prime, and everyone, but changed up a little to have higher odds.

You're arguing that something that someone did that worked, and works every week, doesn't work well. :confusedshrug:
I am listening. I know what you are saying, and I know what they are doing, you are not listening.

How could they do that without knowing who will do well? Did they have insider information that OBJ would get hurt? Or that Julio wouldn't play the second half because the Falcons were blowing the Texans out of the water?

What they can do, is pick people who less people have chosen, because when those players have good games, there are fewer people that benefit from it... But you still have to predict who will have good games.

You can get around this by submitting 1000 different entries into a league with a $1 pot and then hope some combination of the obscure players you picked play well.

Yes, it is an advantage, but its not like they knew ahead of time who is going to perform. Yes, they can benefit from it, but only if their players play well. Yes, it is cheating, but they didn't have the final box score before kickoff. They knew how many people picked who, which is awesome, but I can tell you with a pretty accurate % who will be picked the most. Maybe not the more obscure guys, but its not hard to figure out. Only 1/3 of the league will have favorable matchups in any given week.

[9erempiree]

You can create leagues with friends only. We could do an ISH league. If we did that I'd have no problem showing my lineup before the game started. I actually noticed last year chasing sleepers or avoiding guys everyone was taking was actually kinda stupid. It could potentially be an advantage. Show your cards and hope it forces the other guy to avoid the really awesome picks.

In a big tourny that kills you tho. I'd just avoid the big money stuff/tons of people shit until it gets figured out, if it ever actually does.

Yep...but the problem with that is that it will come down to a few or one player(s) tie-breaker(s).

[UK2K]

yeah, if you pick the right guys it doesn't matter


last week I placed 73 overall out of 5,730...beat the shit out of all those algorithms.

Like I said, made $600 last NFL season playing mostly 10 $5 50/50's every week. Easy money, you can clean up if you know what youre doing.

[UK2K]

You can create leagues with friends only. We could do an ISH league. If we did that I'd have no problem showing my lineup before the game started. I actually noticed last year chasing sleepers or avoiding guys everyone was taking was actually kinda stupid. It could potentially be an advantage. Show your cards and hope it forces the other guy to avoid the really awesome picks.

In a big tourny that kills you tho. I'd just avoid the big money stuff/tons of people shit until it gets figured out, if it ever actually does.

Lets do it. $5 a week. Top 3 pay out.

Make a thread and keep track of our results over the season. That'd be cool.

[Millslapped]

i'd be down for an ISH league. if we can get enough people it should be cool

[9erempiree]

I am listening. I know what you are saying, and I know what they are doing, you are not listening.

How could they do that without knowing who will do well? Did they have insider information that OBJ would get hurt? Or that Julio wouldn't play the second half because the Falcons were blowing the Texans out of the water?

What they can do, is pick people who less people have chosen, because when those players have good games, there are fewer people that benefit from it... But you still have to predict who will have good games.

You can get around this by submitting 1000 different entries into a league with a $1 pot and then hope some combination of the obscure players you picked play well.

Yes, it is an advantage, but its not like they knew ahead of time who is going to perform. Yes, they can benefit from it, but only if their players play well. Yes, it is cheating, but they didn't have the final box score before kickoff. They knew how many people picked who, which is awesome, but I can tell you with a pretty accurate % who will be picked the most. Maybe not the more obscure guys, but its not hard to figure out. Only 1/3 of the league will have favorable matchups in any given week.

Do player prices fluctuate as the week goes by? Or fixed price?

If it's some sort of dynamic pricing where you better get a player early in the week versus Saturday, then I see a problem with it.

If not, then I agree with you that its an advantage but only a slight one.

[UK2K]

Do player prices fluctuate as the week goes by? Or fixed price?

If it's some sort of dynamic pricing where you better get a player early in the week versus Saturday, then I see a problem with it.

If not, then I agree with you that its an advantage but only a slight one.

No the prices are fixed all week.

The premise is, if DKNerd69 knows that only 3% of people in a millionaire league picked Dickface McGoo at RB, the guy could pick D. McGoo and if McGoo had a big week, only 3% of the people would benefit from his big week, thus giving him a big advantage.

The problem is, there is a reason McGoo was only picked by 3% of people. Chances are McGoo sucks.

You could theoretically submit 1000 lineups at $1 a piece and hope for the best. But so could I.

[NuggetsFan]

Lets do it. $5 a week. Top 3 pay out.

Make a thread and keep track of our results over the season. That'd be cool.

I'd be down. We'd have to figure out which site to use. Vote on the size, payouts etc.

[UK2K]

I'd be down. We'd have to figure out which site to use. Vote on the size, payouts etc.

Word. Let's make it happen.

[Nanners]

good post i saw on a reddit discussion about botting in daily fantasy


Basically the guys at the top, who win a vast majority of the money (NOT the big payoffs for tournaments, but the majority passed through single games), are all guys that use very sophisticated bots that bet for them, and are almost genius level statisticians. The one guy talked about doing over 1250 games a day, betting up to $114,000, and how he sees returns of 7% daily. So he basically has created a system where he is playing thousands of games a week with nothing but bots creating rosters, and through sheer probability and being really smart is winning. But the people at the top don't mind because they get their cut, and the cut from the loser. And there's not just one of these guys, there's hundreds. So odds are you playing against a bot some genius created to make money, and while you might win against them a few times, their algorithms are so good they say they win 75% of the time against novice players. And still over 50% for guys who really know their shit.

And who knows how many of those guys are working together or selling their software to others. It was the same shit people got into with online poker. You are always going to run into some dude who has broken the game into a math equation that he can plug into a computer and beat you with. Always. Unless you are one of those guys, in which case I do say more power to you. I'm just not going to be a victim of yours. But hey, if you can make a million beating people at online games because you spent 6 months making a sophisticated piece of code, go for it.

At least with full season leagues you have a degree of improbability working in your favor, in the form of firings and injuries, to help mitigate that and keep the field fair. Not so much in daily leagues.

[bdreason]

It's the hardcore players who win a lot that should be upset. If I had access to the betting data, I would just look at who's winning the most, and follow their bets.

[9erempiree]

I had a talk with my computer programmer friend about this, who is a huge fantasy guy, he said he can build me a program for 10k. I said that was a lot and he said guys in these fantasy games are buying 150k programs.

I told him to write the script and we can sell the bots online but he declined.

The figures about these bots alone is what strayed me away from these tourneys. H2H is much better in my opinion.

7% ROI...if I had capital...I would be betting all day with a program.

In regards to the middle man, DK/FD not caring, they don't care at all since they are getting the juice.

[9erempiree]

It's the hardcore players who win a lot that should be upset. If I had access to the betting data, I would just look at who's winning the most, and follow their bets.

This.

I have a Stock Market app game on my phone and they keep stats of the best players who had the most ROI.

I try to buy shares according to what they buy.

...ain't technology a mofo....

[~primetime~]

DraftKings and FanDuel aren't alone...there are lesser known sites doing daily fantasy

Fantasy Aces
Draft Pot
Yahoo
Draft Street
Draft Day (only 6% - 9% rake instead of a full 10%)

[9erempiree]

DraftKings and FanDuel aren't alone...there are lesser known sites doing daily fantasy

Fantasy Aces
Draft Pot
Yahoo
Draft Street
Draft Day (only 6% - 9% rake instead of a full 10%)

I roll with yahoo because they are actually reputable and they are the first to gives us an electronic fantasy platform.

They would have a lot more to lose than startups like fd and dk.

[~primetime~]

https://www.fantasyup.com/#!/home


^^^ 0% rake for just this season

wow, might have to do that

[~primetime~]

Holy Shit...so that Fantasy Up site really is rake free for just this season...they are collecting no profit, just trying to get a base of players this year.

I am probably going to leave Draft Kings for that.

[NuggetsFan]

Holy Shit...so that Fantasy Up site really is rake free for just this season...they are collecting no profit, just trying to get a base of players this year.

I am probably going to leave Draft Kings for that.

If you sign up you should let us know if the deposit bonus is bullshit like everywhere else. Probably is :lol

[~primetime~]

If you sign up you should let us know if the deposit bonus is bullshit like everywhere else. Probably is :lol
yeah I already assumed it is...

they'll give you 300% 'next year' or something like that...




the only thing that sucks with a lesser known place like this is that I assume no phone app...might be wrong though

[DeuceWallaces]

Not good:

http://deadspin.com/report-draftkings-and-fanduel-being-investigated-by-ne-1735088955

[9erempiree]

There is no secret algorithm nor is there any secrets to help you win.

:facepalm

[9erempiree]

Also,

I suggest you guys to withdrawl your money every time you guys win. Leave some for the next week.

I am predicting frozen accounts.

[tmacattack33]

You can, but that doesnt make your players play any better.

I know that 90% of the league will pick Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers, so I pick Derek Carr. If Carr doesn't play well, it doesn't do me any good to pick him, regardless of how many people DIDNT pick him.

Yes, its an advantage, but when its all said and done, its still fantasy football and shit happens.

Like I said, you could give me the data of who picked who, and it wouldnt cause me to change my lineup because I picked those specific players for a reason, because they have a good chance of performing well.

If payout rewards were given out on a continuum, you would be right.

But payout rewards on FanDuel and DraftKings are only given to the top performer or two out of leagues that can be like 1,000 people I believe. So to get to number 1 out of 1,000, it would be good to pick players that nobody else picked because that will help separate you from 999 other people.

[NBAplayoffs2001]

Whoever is keeping Draft King from being shut down is probably one talented lawyer. There so many issues with the website and the concept that could get it closed in a second.

[Nanners]

Not good:

http://deadspin.com/report-draftkings-and-fanduel-being-investigated-by-ne-1735088955


enter promo code "rememberpokerstars" to cash out your draftkings account before the US govt shuts this shit down

[lil jahlil]

I called this last week :roll:

[Nanners]

http://i.imgur.com/u4fzYVm.jpg

heres the guy who started the whole thing.

something about this photo cracks me up, he looks like he was taken straight out of one of their commercials.

"enter promocode 'youmadbro' to double your deposit bro"

[UK2K]

If payout rewards were given out on a continuum, you would be right.

But payout rewards on FanDuel and DraftKings are only given to the top performer or two out of leagues that can be like 1,000 people I believe. So to get to number 1 out of 1,000, it would be good to pick players that nobody else picked because that will help separate you from 999 other people.
http://playbook.draftkings.com/nfl/millionaire-maker-percent-owned-week-3/

98% of players were picked by less than 10% of people.

Like I said, you can make algorithms all you want, but if your players don't perform, you don't win shit.

Personally, I see it as, if I pick the best 9 guys (which I think I do every week, cause I picked them) then I don't care what anyone else has.

But regardless it is cheating and it increases (ever slightly) the odds of him getting in the money.