Kobe: "My 37 isn't like MJ's 37"

[3ball]

gimme a break... mj missing 5 seasons HURT his legacy because he'd have more than 6 rings.

for at least 3 or 4 of those seasons, he would've been the prohibitive favorite to win the championship.. so let's say he played all 5 seasons - surely mj would have at least a 7th ring, which would only expand the massive gap that already exists between him and Kobe.

otoh, kobe got to play every single season for 19 years, and still has less rings, despite playing with FAR more talent - kobe didn't have to build a team into a champion... he didn't have to coddle Pippen from a 7 ppg rookie to a HOF... Shaq and Phil had to coddle HIM.

anyway, rant over.

[Jameerthefear]

Lebron >>> Kobe = MJ

[bitedez]

:roll: :roll:

[Mr. Jabbar]

Ima huge fan of 3ball posts but I need to slap his face on this one.

Pippen >>> Gasol
West >>> East

period

[3ball]

Pippen >>> Gasol
West >>> East

period
The West wasn't stronger than the East 20 years ago.. You're confusing that with today's weak East.

Gasol > Pippen, but it's splitting hairs anyway - mj missing 5 seasons HURT his legacy because he'd have more than 6 rings.

otoh, kobe got to play every single season for 19 years, and still has less rings, despite playing with FAR more talent - kobe didn't have to coddle Pippen from a 7 ppg rookie to a HOF... Shaq and Phil had to coddle HIM.

[bitedez]

Ima huge fan of 3ball posts but I need to slap his face on this one.

Pippen >>> Gasol
West >>> East

period

shaq>>>>pippen

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[9erempiree]

gimme a break... mj missing seasons HURT his legacy because he'd have more than 6 rings.

mj missed 5 seasons - for at least 3 or 4 of those seasons, he would've been the prohibitive favorite to win the championship.. so let's say he played all 5 seasons - surely mj would have at least a 7th ring, which would only expand the massive gap that already exists between him and Kobe.

otoh, kobe got to play every single season for 19 years, and still has less rings, despite playing with FAR more talent - kobe didn't have to build a team into a champion... he didn't have to coddle Pippen from a 7 ppg rookie to a HOF... Shaq and Phil had to coddle HIM.

anyway, rant over.

What you fail to realize is if MJ never took that 2 year vacation, he may as very well be stuck with only 3 rings. That 2 years off helped him recover physically and mentally for another title run.

You honestly think a player can play all those regular season, playoff and Finals' games?

I am merely speculating just like you have about MJ getting a 7th except there are proof that players normally fizzle out in their 3rd Finals. Kobe fizzled out. Lebron fizzled out. MJ fizzled out, hence vacation.

20 years of almost non-stop basketball with 7 Finals appearance and 5 won is very impressive no matter how you look at it. With the exception of season ending injuries one can argue Kobe was much more a durable player than MJ. Perhaps it can't be argued, Kobe is much more durable than MJ but then that's another argument.

[bitedez]

The West wasn't stronger than the East 20 years ago.. You're confusing that with today's weak East.

Gasol > Pippen, but it's splitting hairs anyway - mj missing 5 seasons HURT his legacy because he'd have more than 6 rings.

otoh, kobe got to play every single season for 19 years, and still has less rings, despite playing with FAR more talent - kobe didn't have to coddle Pippen from a 7 ppg rookie to a HOF... Shaq and Phil had to coddle HIM.

Jabbar has only been watching basketball for the past 5 years.

:roll: :roll:

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

MJ played 35k RS minutes and and 7400 PS minutes by the time he was 37, including a year off in his prime to chill and play baseball and not really playing in 95 either just a few games. Then he took 3 years off. So thats 5 years of chill for MJ.......

Kobe played 46K RS minutes and 8600 PS minutes by the time he was 37, only rarely playing the last 2 seasons past his prime due to serious, career threatening injuries.

Kobe loves the game of basketball more than MJ did. Hes not better than MJ because MJ was a much better athlete with a much better motor but his dedication and competitiveness is unmatched............

"He wants it so bad hes willing to go the extreme. Guarding a guy, guarding the point guard at his age playing 38 minutes, playing 40 minutes. That's ludicrous."

[sdot_thadon]

He's right, he's got tons more basketball miles on his body than mj had at the same age. Why is this even a debate?

[Bosnian Sajo]

My 37 is Metta World Peace, BITCH!

[bitedez]

He's right, he's got tons more basketball miles on his body than mj had at the same age. Why is this even a debate?

Because he thinks he's even close to being like mj:roll:

[9erempiree]

He's right, he's got tons more basketball miles on his body than mj had at the same age. Why is this even a debate?

Just to keep MJ's name relevant. MJ hasn't played in over a decade but they compare him to Kobe just to keep his name going because Kobe's a top 3 player of all time and so is MJ.

[sdot_thadon]

Just to keep MJ's name relevant. MJ hasn't played in over a decade but they compare him to Kobe just to keep his name going because Kobe's a top 3 player of all time and so is MJ.
I was with you until the last 12 words of your post bro. Lost me.

[sportjames23]

Lebron >>> Kobe = MJ


This post is a sad reflection of the American educational system. We have failed our kids.

[Mr. Jabbar]

I hate kobes egoistical demeanor, he really comes off as a self centered individual.. but after winning with FRIKEN pau gasol, who has proved time and time again his utter softness and worthlessness (lakers didn't "steal" him, gasol WAS garbage) I'm left with nothing against him. I suggest every kobe hater raises the white flag. Its embarrassing right now. Stop it.

[3ball]

if MJ never took that 2 year vacation, he may as very well be stuck with only 3 rings. That 2 years off helped him recover physically and mentally for another title run.



Ridiculous - I shouldn't have to state the obvious here - MJ had zero chance at winning a ring the years he didn't play.. Obviously, by not playing, MJ reduced his chances at rings more than if he had played.. That's obvious, 2+2 logic.. To argue against this logic is sheer bias, dumb and false.

Most of you guys were saying Mitch Richmond could've won in 1994, which means MJ would've won too.. One thing we know for certain - if the Bulls had MJ in 1994, they are massive Vegas favorites to win the ring... I'll go with those odds, and you go with the underdog..

[ShawkFactory]

Did I just see a "Gasol > Pippen" quote?

[Mr. Jabbar]

Did I just see a "Gasol > Pippen" quote?

:roll: :roll: :roll: i saw that too :facepalm

Some1 also said jordan molded pippen, like kobe didnt molded a 0-16 playoff loser into a 2 time champion 3 times finalist. There is no way to spin this, I might just leave this thread victorious, I'm THAT confident.

[sdot_thadon]

Ridiculous - I shouldn't have to state the obvious here - MJ had zero chance at winning a ring the years he didn't play.. Obviously, by not playing, MJ reduced his chances at rings more than if he had played.. That's obvious, 2+2 logic.. To argue against this logic is sheer bias, dumb and false.

Most of you guys were saying Mitch Richmond could've won in 1994, which means MJ would've won too.. One thing we know for certain - if the Bulls had MJ in 1994, they are massive Vegas favorites to win the ring... I'll go with those odds, and you go with the underdog..
You somehow continue to top your stupidity. There's got to be a ceiling somewhere. He assumed mj would only 3peat the same way you assumed he'd have 7 or more. Kobe didn't even say a word about rings did he? Only thing kobe can hold close to mj is as a scorer, as a one on one player. Kobe's way ahead of him in longevity as it is. What is it you seek to prove?

[sd3035]

Pippen was the best overall player on the Bulls

[MEB2kDeez]

Did I just see a "Gasol > Pippen" quote?
Hell yeah :lol , I didn't even pay attention to that until you mentioned it.

[3ball]

Did I just see a "Gasol > Pippen" quote?


Gasol > Pippen... You guys just don't know basketball if you think Gasol isn't as good as Pippen.. He's better in many ways.

Obviously, I would snap-take Gasol over Pippen if I was drafting both out of college.

And if you wouldn't, then you'd be picking a 7 ppg rookie that needs a TON of development and therefore needs to land in the right spot to makes sure he gets that development (Pippen needed to land on a bad team like the 87' Bulls so he can get 20 minutes per game playing time, as opposed to the 87' Lakers where he'd be buried on bench behind a bunch of championship veterans).

Otoh, Gasol turned out to be a sure thing.. He was great right away (18/9 and 2.1 blk as rookie), and led his team to the playoffs by his third season.

[Mr. Jabbar]

Gasol > Pippen

I would snap-take Gasol over Pippen


http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y150/luispabril/camisafuerza.jpg

[MEB2kDeez]

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y150/luispabril/camisafuerza.jpg
:oldlol:

[3ball]

Pippen was the best defender on the Bulls


MJ always defended the other team's best player ANYTIME THEY WERE A GUARD, including:

Magic, Gary Payton (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meL62CUehuw), Reggie Miller, Isiah Thomas (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9MfhFFE7fc), Clyde Drexler, John Stockton (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOuMwmXtgd0), Kevin Johnson (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6K2rBgOqGCw), Tim Hardaway (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9ouMPqEk-s), Rod Strickland (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3JqY3CECW8), etc., etc.

Otoh, Pippen guarded Mark Jackson once, the slowest PG of all-time - yet people are so biased by their MJ fatigue/bias, that this is enough to say he defends better than MJ.. But show me another time he was the primary defender on a PG?

In 1991 Finals, MJ was the primary defender on Magic - he guarded Magic for 14 of 20 quarters (70%) to Pippen's 6 quarters (30%).. And it was well-known, even by the mainstream media that MJ was the team's best defender:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOgJhzj4W9M&t=35m00s





Pippen was the best passer on Bulls


Playoff assist % during first 3-peat (1991-1993):

Jordan: 31.1%
Pippen: 23.3%

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html#1991-1993-sum:playoffs_advanced
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html#1991-1993-sum:playoffs_advanced


Assist Percentage during 2nd three-peat (1996-1998):

Jordan: 22.3%
Pippen: 22.0%

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html#1996-1998-sum:playoffs_advanced
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html#1996-1998-sum:playoffs_advanced


As you can see, MJ assisted on a FAR higher percentage of teammates FG's, while scoring literally 75-150% more.. EVERYTHING ran through MJ - you guys would know that if you were alive back then.

MJ had 1st Team All-NBA point guard ability (he averaged 30/9/11 at PG in 1989), whereas Pippen didn't even have a good enough handle to start at PG and never played PG.[/COLOR].

[sd3035]

MJ always defended the other team's best player ANYTIME THEY WERE A GUARD, including:

Magic, Gary Payton (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meL62CUehuw), Reggie Miller, Isiah Thomas (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9MfhFFE7fc), Clyde Drexler, John Stockton (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOuMwmXtgd0), Kevin Johnson (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6K2rBgOqGCw), Tim Hardaway (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9ouMPqEk-s), Rod Strickland (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3JqY3CECW8), etc., etc.

Otoh, Pippen guarded Mark Jackson once, the slowest PG of all-time - yet people are so biased by their MJ fatigue/bias, that this is enough to say he defends better than MJ.. But show me another time he was the primary defender on a PG?

In 1991 Finals, MJ was the primary defender on Magic - he guarded Magic for 14 of 20 quarters (70%) to Pippen's 6 quarters (30%).. And it was well-known, even by the mainstream media that MJ was the team's best defender:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOgJhzj4W9M&t=35m00s



Playoff assist % during first 3-peat (1991-1993):

Jordan: 31.1%
Pippen: 23.3%

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html#1991-1993-sum:playoffs_advanced
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html#1991-1993-sum:playoffs_advanced


Assist Percentage during 2nd three-peat (1996-1998):

Jordan: 22.3%
Pippen: 22.0%

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html#1996-1998-sum:playoffs_advanced
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html#1996-1998-sum:playoffs_advanced


As you can see, MJ assisted on a FAR higher percentage of teammates FG's, while scoring literally 75-150% more.. EVERYTHING ran through MJ - you guys would know that if you were alive back then.

MJ had 1st Team All-NBA point guard ability (he averaged 30/9/11 at PG in 1989), whereas Pippen didn't even have a good enough handle to start at PG and never played PG.[/COLOR].


Jordan was the previous Lebron, a ball hogging stat padder, Pippen was his lifeline

The Pipster was the key to the Bulls success

[3ball]

Some1 also said jordan molded pippen, like kobe didnt molded a 0-16 playoff loser into a 2 time champion 3 times finalist. There is no way to spin this, I might just leave this thread victorious, I'm THAT confident.


ridiculous - the INSTANT the Lakers got Gasol in 2008, they waltzed to the Finals... Kobe didn't have to mold shit.

The reality is that Gasol has a strong argument for fmvp for both of his rings in 2009 and 2010, while Pippen doesn't have fmvp argument for ANY of his rings.

Gasol was the more dominant and impactful player.. Even on defense - Gasol was a good defender - any good-defending big man has a greater defensive impact than a wing defender - any stat-guy can tell you this - get flpiiii or someone on here - they'll back me up on this.
.

[r15mohd]

you're stupid dude - the INSTANT the Lakers got Gasol in 2008, they waltzed to the Finals... Kobe didn't have to mold shit.

The reality is that Gasol has a strong argument for fmvp for both of his rings in 2009 and 2010, while Pippen doesn't have fmvp argument for ANY of his rings.

Gasol was the more dominant and impactful player.. Even on defense - Gasol was a good defender - any good-defending big man has a greater defensive impact than a wing defender - any stat-guy can tell you this - get flpiiii on here - he'll back me up on this.

as delusional as you usually are...this is more/less true about the Gasol/Kobe scenario.

however, you do go to lengths to diminish Pippen's impact on the Bulls. without him, the Bulls are early round exits, lucky to get past an even aging Pistons or Celtics squad in the early 90s, and handedly beaten by the Knicks for the upcoming years.

[ralph_i_el]

What you fail to realize is if MJ never took that 2 year vacation, he may as very well be stuck with only 3 rings. That 2 years off helped him recover physically and mentally for another title run.

You honestly think a player can play all those regular season, playoff and Finals' games?

I am merely speculating just like you have about MJ getting a 7th except there are proof that players normally fizzle out in their 3rd Finals. Kobe fizzled out. Lebron fizzled out. MJ fizzled out, hence vacation.

20 years of almost non-stop basketball with 7 Finals appearance and 5 won is very impressive no matter how you look at it. With the exception of season ending injuries one can argue Kobe was much more a durable player than MJ. Perhaps it can't be argued, Kobe is much more durable than MJ but then that's another argument.

This is the best post you've ever made.

[3ball]

as delusional as you usually are...this is more/less true about the Gasol/Kobe scenario.

however, you do go to lengths to diminish Pippen's impact on the Bulls. without him, the Bulls are early round exits, lucky to get past an even aging Pistons or Celtics squad in the early 90s, and handedly beaten by the Knicks for the upcoming years.
Bulls don't win without Pippen, but Pippen still represents less help than other guys had, like Magic, Bird, and Lebron - these guys all needed multiple HOF's to win any rings, whereas Jordan 3-peated with just Pippen.

And don't overrate Pippen - MJ assisted on a far higher proportion of teammate field goals while scoring between 75% and 150% more - EVERYTHING ran through MJ...

And regarding defense - at the time, EVERYONE knew MJ was the best defender, including the mainstream media:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOgJhzj4W9M&t=35m00s

The only reason people revise history now, is because of MJ bias/fatigue.
.

[3ball]

This is the best post you've ever made.



:rolleyes:.. I'm quite certain this destroyed his logic:





Ridiculous - I shouldn't have to state the obvious here - MJ had zero chance at winning a ring the years he didn't play.. Obviously, by not playing, MJ reduced his chances at rings more than if he had played.. That's obvious, 2+2 logic.. To argue against this logic is sheer bias, dumb and false.

Most of you guys were saying Mitch Richmond could've won in 1994, which means MJ would've won too.. One thing we know for certain - if the Bulls had MJ in 1994, they are massive Vegas favorites to win the ring... I'll go with those odds, and you go with the underdog..

[NBASTATMAN]

MJ played 35k RS minutes and and 7400 PS minutes by the time he was 37, including a year off in his prime to chill and play baseball and not really playing in 95 either just a few games. Then he took 3 years off. So thats 5 years of chill for MJ.......

Kobe played 46K RS minutes and 8600 PS minutes by the time he was 37, only rarely playing the last 2 seasons past his prime due to serious, career threatening injuries.

Kobe loves the game of basketball more than MJ did. Hes not better than MJ because MJ was a much better athlete with a much better motor but his dedication and competitiveness is unmatched............

"He wants it so bad hes willing to go the extreme. Guarding a guy, guarding the point guard at his age playing 38 minutes, playing 40 minutes. That's ludicrous."


I must agree with Kobe loving the game more than MJ..

[Dro]

Even if he posts the same shit over and over, at least 3 ball backs his shit up with stats, facts, links to interviews, etc...Everybody else hates MJ so much apparently that they only can come up with witty one liners, like "Pippen is a better overall player", with NO evidence or "Pippen is a better defender", with NO evidence.

Pippen is one of the greatest defenders in NBA history.

But so is MJ.

Who care's who's the better defender? They both might be top 5 all time along with Russell and whoever else you want to slot in to the other 2 spots.

[Hey Yo]

Ridiculous - I shouldn't have to state the obvious here - MJ had zero chance at winning a ring the years he didn't play.. Obviously, by not playing, MJ reduced his chances at rings more than if he had played.. That's obvious, 2+2 logic.. To argue against this logic is sheer bias, dumb and false.

Most of you guys were saying Mitch Richmond could've won in 1994, which means MJ would've won too.. One thing we know for certain - if the Bulls had MJ in 1994, they are massive Vegas favorites to win the ring... I'll go with those odds, and you go with the underdog..
MJ came back in late 95' to try to win an easy 4th ring but got bounced in the 2nd round. Which proves if he had played all season, the Bulls still would have still gotten bounced out by Orlando.

[magnax1]

Kobe has played 55 thousand minutes to this point of his career. Jordan had played 43 thousand at the same age. I dont think Jordan played 55 thousand in total.

This includes playoffs btw.

[HOoopCityJones]

Even if he posts the same shit over and over, at least 3 ball backs his shit up with stats, facts, links to interviews, etc...Everybody else hates MJ so much apparently that they only can come up with witty one liners, like "Pippen is a better overall player", with NO evidence or "Pippen is a better defender", with NO evidence.

Pippen is one of the greatest defenders in NBA history.

But so is MJ.

Who care's who's the better defender? They both might be top 5 all time along with Russell and whoever else you want to slot in to the other 2 spots.

Simple question, Is Gasol better than Scottie Pippen? The same guy who led the Bulls to 50 something wins after Jordan's brief retirement?

I could give two shits about 3ball taking the piss about something that is proven fact. Kobe had a longer career than Jordan.

Where the hell did he say he was better?

[OldSchoolBBall]

Gasol in his best few seasons had comparable impact as Pippen in his best few seasons, although in different ways. Gasol = better scorer, far better efficiency, far better rebounder in a smaller league (especially offensive boards), lotta height/length inside for intimidation, similar caliber passer for his position.

[dubeta]

His rings are also not the same as MJs

[magnax1]

Gasol in his best few seasons had comparable impact as Pippen in his best few seasons, although in different ways. Gasol = better scorer, far better efficiency, far better rebounder in a smaller league (especially offensive boards), lotta height/length inside for intimidation, similar caliber passer for his position.
Lel

[guy]

Kobe making excuses for not being up to par with Jordan. Not the first time.

[lil jahlil]

Lebron >>> Kobe = MJ
You are such a child.

[Mr. Jabbar]

Surprised to see 3ball still posting in this thread after I personally body-bagged him.

[toxicxr6]

Simple question, Is Gasol better than Scottie Pippen? The same guy who led the Bulls to 50 something wins after Jordan's brief retirement?

I could give two shits about 3ball taking the piss about something that is proven fact. Kobe had a longer career than Jordan.

Where the hell did he say he was better?

This topic (and many others) on this board are filled with delusional Kobe stans..

Here are the mob of Kobe stans arguing that mj had more help than Kobe and they are referring to the gasol>pippen arguement (pippen is better but the gap is a lot closer than what the Kobe stans are comfortable with).

Then they completely neglect to refer to the fact that shaq carried Kobe to most of his success.. That completely fails to get a mention.. It's rediculous!
And for reference shaq>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>pippen.. And that's not even remotely close...
In fact shaq>>>>>>>>> 1996 bulls minus MJ...
Life of a Kobe stan

[guy]

Simple question, Is Gasol better than Scottie Pippen? The same guy who led the Bulls to 50 something wins after Jordan's brief retirement?

I could give two shits about 3ball taking the piss about something that is proven fact. Kobe had a longer career than Jordan.

Where the hell did he say he was better?

You realize Gasol has led a team to 50 wins right?

People act like leading a team to 50 wins is this incredibly unique and unlikely accomplishment. :rolleyes:

[Suguru101]

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y150/luispabril/camisafuerza.jpg

:roll:

Will rep when it's back. :oldlol:

[3ball]

Surprised to see 3ball still posting in this thread after I personally body-bagged him.
Gasol was already an All-NBA player before he played his first game with Kobe..

Otoh, MJ got Pippen as a 7 ppg rookie and had to mold him into an All-NBA player.. Big difference.

All you did was expose yourself as a lightweight for forgetting Gasol was already All-NBA before he played his first game with Kobe.

[Mr. Jabbar]

https://imgflip.com/s/meme/I-See-Dead-People.jpg

[3ball]

You realize Gasol has led a team to 50 wins right?

People act like leading a team to 50 wins is this incredibly unique and unlikely accomplishment. :rolleyes:
Exactly, and he didn't need a 3-peat supporting cast to do it either

[3ball]

Pippen was the best defender on the Bulls


Pippen guarded Mark Jackson once, the slowest PG of all-time - yet people are so biased by their MJ fatigue, that it's enough for them to say he defended better than MJ.. But show me another time he was the primary defender on a PG?

Otoh, Jordan was the primary defender on the other team's best player ANYTIME THEY WERE A GUARD, including Magic, Gary Payton (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meL62CUehuw), Reggie Miller, Isiah Thomas (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9MfhFFE7fc), Clyde Drexler, John Stockton (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOuMwmXtgd0), Kevin Johnson (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6K2rBgOqGCw), Tim Hardaway (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9ouMPqEk-s), Rod Strickland (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3JqY3CECW8), etc., etc.

Again, the only reason people revise history now, is because of MJ bias/fatigue.. But at the time, EVERYONE knew MJ was the best defender, including the mainstream media:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOgJhzj4W9M&t=35m00s

[Mr. Jabbar]

3ball, I'm not sure what you're babbling about here, just to make it clear: Pippen > Gasol. There really is no way to spin it around, none, period

I enjoyed some of your posts in the past, but this shit ain't funny anymore, I'm trying to safeguard your credibility here, you cannot go on with this kind of stuff. This is for your OWN good, my friend.

[3ball]

3ball, I'm not sure what you're babbling about here, just to make it clear: Pippen > Gasol. There really is no way to spin it around, none, period

I enjoyed some of your posts in the past, but this shit ain't funny anymore, I'm trying to safeguard your credibility here, you cannot go on with this kind of stuff. This is for your OWN good, my friend.
i don't give a shit about my "credibility" in the forum.

i know my knowledge is superior to anyone's here BY FAR, so why would i give a shit what anyone thinks?

gasol > pippen and anyone that says otherwise doesn't know the game.

he was a more impactful offensive player and defensive player.

[3ball]

...at least 3ball backs his shit up with stats, facts, links to interviews, etc...

Everybody else hates MJ so much apparently that they only can come up with witty one liners, like "Pippen is a better overall player", with NO evidence or "Pippen is a better defender", with NO evidence..


http://media.giphy.com/media/qaFduOMYKkmwE/giphy.gif

[DaOldLion]

Gasol was already an All-NBA player before he played his first game with Kobe..

Otoh, MJ got Pippen as a 7 ppg rookie and had to mold him into an All-NBA player.. Big difference.

All you did was expose yourself as a lightweight for forgetting Gasol was already All-NBA before he played his first game with Kobe.

Gasol never made an all nba team before played with Kobe

:facepalm :facepalm

[Mr. Jabbar]

i don't give a shit about my credibility

Well, that kinda explains it..

Still appreciate you bro. Be safe.

[3ball]

Well, that kinda explains it..

Still appreciate you bro. Be safe.



Says the guy who never addresses any point I make, and prefers to whine instead - this post by Dro applies to you as much as anyone:





...at least 3ball backs his shit up with stats, facts, links to interviews, etc...

Everybody else hates MJ so much apparently that they only can come up with witty one liners, like "Pippen is a better overall player", with NO evidence or "Pippen is a better defender", with NO evidence..

[bitedez]

Surprised to see 3ball still posting in this thread after I personally body-bagged him.

This guy throws compliments to himself. f4cken dumba$$

:roll: :roll:

[20Four]

Says the guy who never addresses any point I make, and prefers to whine instead - this post by Dro applies to you as much as anyone:
3ball....calm the fvck down shit

[3ball]

Gasol never made an all nba team before played with Kobe


Gasol averaged about 19/9 with 2 blocks from his rookie year in 2002, and he had those same stats alongside Kobe.. Virtually zero improvement alongside Kobe.

Otoh, Pippen went from 7 ppg to 21 ppg with MJ.

MJ molded Pippen, while Kobe got a ready-made product, just like he did with Shaq... Oh, that's right... He played with Shaq too.

[Mr. Jabbar]

Says the guy who never addresses any point I make, and prefers to whine instead - this post by Dro applies to you as much as anyone:

The very thing you gloat about is your glaring weakness, the moment a man needs to resort to advanced stats in a sports argument its over, he already lost, period

I'll be here in case you need more of this "advanced metric" I like to call common sense.

[3ball]

The moment a man needs to resort to advanced stats in a sports argument its over, he already lost, period

I'll be here in case you need more of this "advanced metric" I like to call common sense.
I've used all kinds of arguments on here, the least of which are advanced stats..

If you're not going to address any of my points, then don't waste my time.

[Mr. Jabbar]

I've used all kinds of arguments on here, the least of which are advanced stats..

If you're not going to address any of my points, then don't waste my time.

You would draft Gasol over Pippen and dare talk about wasting somebody else's time? You've got some nerve, I'll give you that.

[HOoopCityJones]

i don't give a shit about my "credibility" in the forum.

i know my knowledge is superior to anyone's here BY FAR, so why would i give a shit what anyone thinks?

gasol > pippen and anyone that says otherwise doesn't know the game.

he was a more impactful offensive player and defensive player.


http://reactiongif.org/wp-content/uploads/GIF/2014/11/Are-you-serious-eddie-murphy-oh-really-say-what-surprised-you-serious-GIF.gif


Put down the needle man.

[3ball]

Put down the needle man.


A very good defensive big has a superior defensive impact than any wing player.. This is a statistical fact.

All you guys who say Pippen > Gasol are literally being caught up in the dumb media hype and Pippen's 6 rings.. MJ wins 15 rings with Gasol.

One day when you're old and gray, you'll realize the guys on tv talking about basketball don't know anything more about the game than any other casual fan.

[3ball]

You would draft Gasol over Pippen and dare talk about wasting somebody else's time? You've got some nerve, I'll give you that.
I would snap-take Gasol over Pippen if I was drafting both out of college.

You're forgetting that 7 ppg rookie Pippen needed a TON of development - this is a fact - therefore, he needed to land in the right spot to makes sure he gets that development - if Pippen was drafted by a good team like the 1987 Lakers, he gets zero playing time and would be buried on bench behind a bunch of championship veterans... But fortunately, he went to a bad team like the Bulls, so he got 20 mpg as a rookie and averaged 7 ppg.

So if we're drafting Gasol and Pippen to 100 different teams each, Gasol would fare MUCH better overall, because Pippen would only thrive on the right teams where he could get the development he needed... Otoh, Gasol was great right away and didn't need to develop, so he didn't need to land in the right situation to realize that development... He would've been an immediate asset anywhere - therefore, it's a no-brainer to draft him over Pippen.
.

[HOoopCityJones]

Like I said you're clearly high if you think Pau Gasol is better than Pippen much less the better defender.

You were so shook by Kobe's comments that you rather talk straight from your ass right now.


You really gonna try and force a Gasol being better than Pippen argument just to prove Jordan is better than Kobe? Reeks of desperation my dude.

[Cocaine80s]

Pippen>>Gasol >Bosh

[3ball]

Like I said you're clearly high if you think Pau Gasol is better than Pippen much less the better defender.

You were so shook by Kobe's comments that you rather talk straight from your ass right now.


You really gonna try and force a Gasol being better than Pippen argument just to prove Jordan is better than Kobe? Reeks of desperation my dude.
If we're drafting Gasol and Pippen to 100 different teams each, Gasol would fare MUCH better overall, because Pippen would only thrive on the right teams where he could get the development he needed (bad teams like the Bulls where he could get playing time, not good teams like the Lakers where he would never see the light of day).

Otoh, Gasol didn't need to develop, so he didn't need to land in the right situation to realize that development... He was great right away (18/9 and 2.1 blk as rookie) and would've been an immediate asset anywhere - therefore, it's a no-brainer to draft him over Pippen.

[ShaqTwizzle]

2010 Gasol : 20 / 11.1 / 3.5 / 2.1-bpg on 60%TS (24.0 PER)
-
91 Pippen : 21.6 / 8.9 / 5.8 / 2.5-spg on 56%TS (22.0 PER)
-
00 Kobe : 21.1 / 4.5 / 4.4 / 1.5-spg on 52%TS (19.3 PER)

Gasol > Pippen > Kobe

:kobe:

[HOoopCityJones]

If we're drafting Gasol and Pippen to 100 different teams each, Gasol would fare MUCH better overall, because Pippen would only thrive on the right teams where he could get the development he needed (bad teams like the Bulls where he could get playing time, not good teams like the Lakers where he would never see the light of day).

Otoh, Gasol turned out to be a sure thing.. He was great right away (18/9 and 2.1 blk as rookie) and would've been an immediate asset anywhere - therefore, it's a no-brainer to draft him over Pippen.

My ni99a , that's not what you said.

9 times outta 10 the Big prospect is taken over the premiere guard as we saw this past Summer in the draft and my Lakers foolishly passing on a ready made Okafor for a project like Russell.

Even in Jordan's case you take the big over him, like they did back in 84.

What exactly is your point? :biggums:

But bar none, Pippen is the better overall player than Gasol and in all reality neither Kobe or Jordan was doing shit but stat padding until they both came along and joined their respective squads. Harsh truths sweetie.

[3ball]

9 times outta 10 the Big prospect is taken over the premiere guard as we saw this past Summer in the draft and my Lakers foolishly passing on a ready made Okafor for a project like Russell.

Even in Jordan's case you take the big over him, like they did back in 84.


MJ was great right away, just like Gasol, so if we're drafting them to 100 teams, they would do better on a far greater number of teams than a player like Pippen, who needed a ton of development, and therefore would only do well on the right teams where that development would be realized.

It's a good thing that out of those all those teams, Pippen happened to go to the goat's team.. But I suppose you still think it's a coincidence that he turned out the way he did.

[Just2McFly]

Kobe is right.

[Mr Feeny]

2010 Gasol : 20 / 11.1 / 3.5 / 2.1-bpg on 60%TS (24.0 PER)
-
91 Pippen : 21.6 / 8.9 / 5.8 / 2.5-spg on 56%TS (22.0 PER)
-
00 Kobe : 21.1 / 4.5 / 4.4 / 1.5-spg on 52%TS (19.3 PER)

Gasol > Pippen > Kobe

:kobe:

Gasol was phenomenal in 2010:rockon:

[IllegalD]

You guys are ridiculous.

If you took all the Top 10 GOAT candidates and ranked their second-options from best to worst Gasol would be near the bottom, if not the worst.

Pippen (Jordan's sidekick)
Wade (LeBron's sidekick) (3rd option Bosh is as good if not better than Gasol)
McHale (Bird's sidekick) (3rd option Parish is as good if not better than Gasol)
Kareem (Magic's "sidekick")
Magic (Kareem's "sidekick" on the Lakers) (3rd option Worthy is as good if not better than Gasol)
Oscar Robertson (Kareem's sidekick on the bucks)
Kobe (Shaq's "sidekick")
Jerry West (Wilt's sidekick)
Heat Shaq (Wade's sidekick)
Tony Parker (Duncan's sidekick) (3rd option Manu is as good if not better than Gasol)

ALL better 2nd options than Gasol.


And :oldlol: at you Stanleys cherry-picking stats.

Pippen >>> Gasol.

Pippen was able to be a successful sidekick to the tune of SIX championships. While Gasol could only muster enough elite play for "only" 2 (less than half of Pippen's). He got herbed out in 2008, 2011, 2012, and 2013 with a million excuses made for his pansy ass mostly by LeBron/Jordan Stanleys who want to overrated the sh*t out out him to downgrade Kobe.

Not to mention as a first option Pippen took his teams much farther than Gasol did as a first option. Pippen actually won playoff games as a first option.

Even in the "championship veteran on a talented contending team" role that Gasol is playing now, Pippen played it much better than him. Leading the Blazers to within a 4th quarter meltdown/comeback to being in the NBA Finals. While Gasol just sat on his p*ssy ass and again underperformed in the playoffs for the Bulls.

Also, your precious PER doesn't take into account Pippen's elite defense, nor the fact that he was essentially defacto PG quarterbacking the Triangle offense for Jordan and the rest of the Bulls.

[Iam]

MJ came back in late 95' to try to win an easy 4th ring but got bounced in the 2nd round. Which proves if he had played all season, the Bulls still would have still gotten bounced out by Orlando.

He came back with like 17 games left after being away for over a year and a half and heading into prime playoff competition that's been playing all year lol. Give MJ the time to get back his NBA legs and a full season and you have a sweep.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-UxYD63xVI#t=2m38s

2:38 on:

Nick Anderson- "45 was not 23"

Dennis Scott- "MJ wasn't back yet, he wasn't back to NBA legs"




watch y'all ignore this though. :pimp:

[HOoopCityJones]

You guys are ridiculous.

If you took all the Top 10 GOAT candidates and ranked their second-options from best to worst Gasol would be near the bottom, if not the worst.

Pippen (Jordan's sidekick)
Wade (LeBron's sidekick) (3rd option Bosh is as good if not better than Gasol)
McHale (Bird's sidekick) (3rd option Parish is as good if not better than Gasol)
Kareem (Magic's "sidekick")
Magic (Kareem's "sidekick" on the Lakers) (3rd option Worthy is as good if not better than Gasol)
Oscar Robertson (Kareem's sidekick on the bucks)
Kobe (Shaq's "sidekick")
Jerry West (Wilt's sidekick)
Heat Shaq (Wade's sidekick)
Tony Parker (Duncan's sidekick) (3rd option Manu is as good if not better than Gasol)

ALL better 2nd options than Gasol.


And :oldlol: at you Stanleys cherry-picking stats.

Pippen >>> Gasol.

Pippen was able to be a successful sidekick to the tune of SIX championships. While Gasol could only muster enough elite play for "only" 2 (less than half of Pippen's). He got herbed out in 2008, 2011, 2012, and 2013 with a million excuses made for his pansy ass mostly by LeBron/Jordan Stanleys who want to overrated the sh*t out out him to downgrade Kobe.

Not to mention as a first option Pippen took his teams much farther than Gasol did as a first option. Pippen actually won playoff games as a first option.

Even in the "championship veteran on a talented contending team" role that Gasol is playing now, Pippen played it much better than him. Leading the Blazers to within a 4th quarter meltdown/comeback to being in the NBA Finals. While Gasol just sat on his p*ssy ass and again underperformed in the playoffs for the Bulls.

Also, your precious PER doesn't take into account Pippen's elite defense, nor the fact that he was essentially defacto PG quarterbacking the Triangle offense for Jordan and the rest of the Bulls.


RIP a retarded ass thread.

[Euroleague]

gimme a break... mj missing 5 seasons HURT his legacy because he'd have more than 6 rings.

for at least 3 or 4 of those seasons, he would've been the prohibitive favorite to win the championship.. so let's say he played all 5 seasons - surely mj would have at least a 7th ring, which would only expand the massive gap that already exists between him and Kobe.

otoh, kobe got to play every single season for 19 years, and still has less rings, despite playing with FAR more talent - kobe didn't have to build a team into a champion... he didn't have to coddle Pippen from a 7 ppg rookie to a HOF... Shaq and Phil had to coddle HIM.

anyway, rant over.

The Bulls would not have beaten those Hakeem Rockets teams in '94 and '95 if Jordan was playing. That's a myth created by Jordan stans.

The Bulls had no way in hell of stopping Olajuwon.

So if Jordan did not retire the first time, all of that "6 out of 6" bullshit that the low IQ crowd and the media cite would have never happened.

Which is ironic, because 6 out of 8 is a better accomplishment for anyone with an IQ over 65 anyway.

[Soundwave]

The Bulls would not have beaten those Hakeem Rockets teams in '94 and '95 if Jordan was playing. That's a myth created by Jordan stans.

The Bulls had no way in hell of stopping Olajuwon.

So if Jordan did not retire the first time, all of that "6 out of 6" bullshit that the low IQ crowd and the media cite would have never happened.

Which is ironic, because 6 out of 8 is a better accomplishment for anyone with an IQ over 65 anyway.

Let Hakeem have his 30 a night. Lock everyone else down especially their perimeter shooters and say goodnight to the Rockets.

Houston especially in 94 would not be able to stop Jordan or Pippen.

That team needed 7 to beat the Knicks (and John Starks choking) to win, the Bulls were always better than the Knicks.

1996 Sonics clowned Hakeem and the Rockets, but they weren't any real threat to the Bulls (Chicago took their foot off the pedal after getting up 3-0 but snapped out of it to finish the job).

Bulls would have beat Houston in 94 and 95 and absolutely raped them in 96 if the Rockets could've even gotten that far.

[ShaqTwizzle]

Pippen (Jordan's sidekick)


He was not considerably better then Gasol.
Late 00's Gasol was certainly better then 2nd 3peat Pippen.

First 3peat Pippen might be better but certainly not by any sizable margin.


Wade (LeBron's sidekick)

2011 Wade = better, yes.

09/10 Championship Gasol was better then 13 & 14 Wade and was better or at worst on the same tier as 12 Wade.


McHale

Same tier as Gasol. Definitely not considerably better.
Slightly better scorer & defender while Gasol was a much better passer.

Gasol imo was this generations Kevin McHale (even if he wasn't quite as good Prime for Prime).


Kobe (Shaq's sidekick)

09 Gasol > 00 Kobe
10 Pau > 02 Kobe

Gasol performed at a higher level, put up better stats and had more impact in those two playoff runs then Kobe had in his.

01 Kobe was admittedly a better #2 then Gasol ever was but that was an outlier year.


Jerry West (Wilt's sidekick)

True.
Wilt had Peak West and still lost.


Tony Parker (Duncan's sidekick) (3rd option Manu is as good if not better than Gasol)

No I think Gasol is better then both of them.


Pippen was able to be a successful sidekick to the tune of SIX championships.

Yeah and Gasol 2peated with Kobe in years where the competition wasn't that great.

Don't you think if you put a young Gasol with a still young Prime Jordan that they could have won many titles together?
Just a completely different situation and a poor comparison.


He got herbed out in 2008, 2011, 2012, and 2013

Kobe "herbed out" in those years also and since he was the "man" it is worse.


Pippen actually won playoff games as a first option.

Pippen had a better team around him, a better coach and was facing much weaker competition.

I mean Gasol was losing too...
Spurs led by Peak Duncan
The Finalist and near Champion Mavericks
The stupidly stacked 05 Suns with Peak Nash and pre-injury Amare.

I doubt the 94 Bulls are beating any of those teams.


While Gasol just sat on his p*ssy ass and again underperformed in the playoffs for the Bulls.

Hmm.
I actually thought Gasol was pretty good in the 15 playoffs before his injury.

Struggled with his scoring in the first 2 games against MIL but made up for it with all around play 15-rpg / 3.5-apg / 3.5-bpg.

Then over the last 4 games : 19 / 11 / 4 / 2-bpg on 65%TS

That is pretty damn good right there.

Then he has a great G1 against Cleveland before getting injured.
21 / 10 / 4-ast / 4-blk on 64%TS.
Cleveland won that game before losing 4/5 without him.

The injury was a black mark on an otherwise amazing season and a decent enough playoff run.
Was a really nice bounce back year for the big guy.
As a Laker fan I would think you'd appreciate Gasol doing well. Meh.

[9erempiree]

There is a reason why people with half a brain will tell you why MJ would not have won 8 in a row and probably wouldn't have physically and mentally endured a 2nd 3peat had it not been for his vacation.

We know MJ was a great player but lets not act like he can play every damn game including the post season and come back summer after summer with short rest just to do it again.

[ShaqTwizzle]

There is a reason why people with half a brain will tell you why MJ would not have won 8 in a row and probably wouldn't have physically and mentally endured a 2nd 3peat had it not been for his vacation.

We know MJ was a great player but lets not act like he can play every damn game including the post season and come back summer after summer with short rest just to do it again.

The reason why is because he didn't.
Jordan left Chicago for 1 season.

When he came back in 95 he had the same supporting star, a comparable overall cast and the same coach & system.
He had nearly 25 games or 1/4th a season to play around and develop whatever chemistry he needed.

That was also plenty of time to get into game shape even though he had stayed in great shape to play baseball so it couldn't have been that much of an adjustment.

He lost that year period.
A big part of it was the loss of Horace Grant who joined Orlando and ended up killing them in the 95 playoffs.
Had Jordan played the whole year maybe things would have turned out differently but this idea that that were unbeatable is false.
Even the greatest of players can lose. Ask Jordan pre-91.

[Paul George 24]

Lebron >>> Kobe = MJ
2-4 :banana:

[Paul George 24]

There is a reason why people with half a brain will tell you why MJ would not have won 8 in a row and probably wouldn't have physically and mentally endured a 2nd 3peat had it not been for his vacation.

We know MJ was a great player but lets not act like he can play every damn game including the post season and come back summer after summer with short rest just to do it again.
wrong :no:

[Paul George 24]

The Bulls would not have beaten those Hakeem Rockets teams in '94 and '95 if Jordan was playing. That's a myth created by Jordan stans.

The Bulls had no way in hell of stopping Olajuwon.

So if Jordan did not retire the first time, all of that "6 out of 6" bullshit that the low IQ crowd and the media cite would have never happened.

Which is ironic, because 6 out of 8 is a better accomplishment for anyone with an IQ over 65 anyway.

idiot :facepalm

[ShawkFactory]

Dude said Gasol > Pippen and this thread is still going :facepalm

[GimmeThat]

if you're 37 years old and you still want to be a star in this league. it's a whole lot about your fakes.

you don't need to defy gravity, if you can re-define the timing of others lift off.


feeling the condition, hoisting up 15 shots a game if the team has enough talent to stay on the floor isn't all that outrageous.

I don't recall how many games Jordan missed due to being old.


sh*t happens I guess.

[sdot_thadon]

Let Hakeem have his 30 a night. Lock everyone else down especially their perimeter shooters and say goodnight to the Rockets.

Houston especially in 94 would not be able to stop Jordan or Pippen.

That team needed 7 to beat the Knicks (and John Starks choking) to win, the Bulls were always better than the Knicks.

1996 Sonics clowned Hakeem and the Rockets, but they weren't any real threat to the Bulls (Chicago took their foot off the pedal after getting up 3-0 but snapped out of it to finish the job).

Bulls would have beat Houston in 94 and 95 and absolutely raped them in 96 if the Rockets could've even gotten that far.
See during that time there was no "let dream get his 30" if you let him "get" anything he was going for 40+ likely. He was playing the best ball of his life then. Chicago always has solid serviceable bigs but nothing that could handle a Hakeem level center in 94 or 95. Also 5 straight finals trips has to take the wind out of a team as well. So if they could even pull it off, there's also the possibility they are done altogether and never even sniff a 2nd 3peat. Lastly the rox always gave Chicago trouble during the 90's they just didn't have shit for the sonics though. Bad matchup for them.

[tmacattack33]

Not sure what all the discussion in this thread is about and i have no time to read it, but LOL at this guy that people think is so ALPHA making excuses before the season even starts.

Also LOL at him for comparing himself to the GOAT.

[ImKobe]

gimme a break... mj missing 5 seasons HURT his legacy because he'd have more than 6 rings.

for at least 3 or 4 of those seasons, he would've been the prohibitive favorite to win the championship.. so let's say he played all 5 seasons - surely mj would have at least a 7th ring, which would only expand the massive gap that already exists between him and Kobe.

otoh, kobe got to play every single season for 19 years, and still has less rings, despite playing with FAR more talent - kobe didn't have to build a team into a champion... he didn't have to coddle Pippen from a 7 ppg rookie to a HOF... Shaq and Phil had to coddle HIM.

anyway, rant over.

Kobe at 37 has suffered 3 season-ending injuries in a row and has way more mileage, MJ was more dominant/consistent yes and that's why he is the GOAT, but trying to downplay Kobe and saying he was "coddled" is a bunch of crap.

Kobe post-Shaq didn't have nearly as much help as MJ during his 2nd 3-peat.

[guy]

Let Hakeem have his 30 a night. Lock everyone else down especially their perimeter shooters and say goodnight to the Rockets.

Houston especially in 94 would not be able to stop Jordan or Pippen.

That team needed 7 to beat the Knicks (and John Starks choking) to win, the Bulls were always better than the Knicks.

1996 Sonics clowned Hakeem and the Rockets, but they weren't any real threat to the Bulls (Chicago took their foot off the pedal after getting up 3-0 but snapped out of it to finish the job).

Bulls would have beat Houston in 94 and 95 and absolutely raped them in 96 if the Rockets could've even gotten that far.

This. Never understood that logic. Who was stopping Hakeem all those years he was losing? Who was going to stop Jordan on the Rockets? Who the hell stops any all-time great player? :oldlol:

[guy]

Kobe at 37 has suffered 3 season-ending injuries in a row and has way more mileage, MJ was more dominant/consistent yes and that's why he is the GOAT, but trying to downplay Kobe and saying he was "coddled" is a bunch of crap.

Kobe post-Shaq didn't have nearly as much help as MJ during his 2nd 3-peat.

Someone didn't watch. It's one thing to say Jordan had more help during the 2nd three peat. It's another thing entirely to say it wasn't even close. And Kobe clearly had more help then Jordan did in 98.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Bean wasn't saying he was better than MJ or anything, just that he has more basketball mileage at 37 than MJ did. Yeah it's an excuse, and I don't think the gap between mileage is as severe few make it out to be (MJ played college ball, and was THE go-to guy the moment he was drafted) - but its still technically a fact.

[Sakkreth]

Kobetards need to stop, they need to realise that with Prime Shaq carrying him he managed to win only one ring legitametly. Kobe sucked so bad that to win rings he needed Prime Shaq AND Refs major rigging :roll:

[HOoopCityJones]

Kobetards need to stop, they need to realise that with Prime Shaq carrying him he managed to win only one ring legitametly. Kobe sucked so bad that to win rings he needed Prime Shaq AND Refs major rigging :roll:

The Cavs still have a Team? Thought that Cleveland Team was called the 2 for 6ers.

[guy]

Bean wasn't saying he was better than MJ or anything, just that he has more basketball mileage at 37 than MJ did. Yeah it's an excuse, and I don't think the gap between mileage is as severe few make it out to be (MJ played college ball, and was THE go-to guy the moment he was drafted) - but its still technically a fact.

Jordan was also playing another sport while he was retired the first time.

He wasn't saying he was better. He never has said anything like that. But numerous times he has implied some excuse that uplifts him and/or downplays Jordan in seemingly an effort to bridge the gap between the two.

[20Four]

Kobetards need to stop, they need to realise that with Prime Shaq carrying him he managed to win only one ring legitametly. Kobe sucked so bad that to win rings he needed Prime Shaq AND Refs major rigging :roll:
2/6 lol you rolling fakkit

[Straight_Ballin]

So basically if Jordan plays full career he is 9/9 because that momentum after winning 8/8 carries forward. There is no arguement against this because there is no evidence that Jordan knows how to lose in the finals, and each time he went to the finals for the first time, he carried out 3 peat victories.

Lol at "fatigue". Look at Bill Russell dumbasses.

[sdot_thadon]

So basically if Jordan plays full career he is 9/9 because that momentum after winning 8/8 carries forward. There is no arguement against this because there is no evidence that Jordan knows how to lose in the finals, and each time he went to the finals for the first time, he carried out 3 peat victories.

Lol at "fatigue". Look at Bill Russell dumbasses.
If jordan plays a full career his later knee issues come up a bit sooner, maybe even alot sooner without those breaks and if every year is a deep playoff run. Also teams do get worn down, and there's no sure guarantee they even beat the rockets in 94 and 95. Bill Russell played in a way different time and got to skip a round of the playoffs AFAIK.

[Iam]

The reason why is because he didn't.
Jordan left Chicago for 1 season.

When he came back in 95 he had the same supporting star, a comparable overall cast and the same coach & system.
He had nearly 25 games or 1/4th a season to play around and develop whatever chemistry he needed.

That was also plenty of time to get into game shape even though he had stayed in great shape to play baseball so it couldn't have been that much of an adjustment.

He lost that year period.
A big part of it was the loss of Horace Grant who joined Orlando and ended up killing them in the 95 playoffs.
Had Jordan played the whole year maybe things would have turned out differently but this idea that that were unbeatable is false.
Even the greatest of players can lose. Ask Jordan pre-91.

No he didn't have nearly 25 games it was 17 games after being off a year and a half. If you think Jordan was back to Championship Jordan after being off that long and jumping right into prime playoff competition then your simply ignorant or blinded by hate. Forgive me but I'll take the word of Magic players who agree with my sentiment over yours lol


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-UxYD63xVI#t=2m38s

2:38 on:

Nick Anderson- "45 was not 23"

Dennis Scott- "MJ wasn't back yet, he wasn't back to NBA legs"

[Straight_Ballin]

If jordan plays a full career his later knee issues come up a bit sooner, maybe even alot sooner without those breaks and if every year is a deep playoff run. Also teams do get worn down, and there's no sure guarantee they even beat the rockets in 94 and 95. Bill Russell played in a way different time and got to skip a round of the playoffs AFAIK.

This is all hypothetical. Based on the fact that Jordan doesn't know how to lose in the finals, that's really the best indicator we have on how it would have been.

[sdot_thadon]

This is all hypothetical. Based on the fact that Jordan doesn't know how to lose in the finals, that's really the best indicator we have on how it would have been.
It's a hypothetical in response to......a hypothetical. Duh. Nobody in the modern era has won more than 3 in a row and only two teams have been to 4 in a row. So the best indicator is they likely wouldn't have been able to keep it up.

[3ball]

Pippen was the best defender on the Bulls


Pippen guarded Mark Jackson once, the slowest PG of all-time - yet that's enough to say he defended better than MJ because people are so biased by their MJ fatigue.. But show me another time he was the primary defender on a PG?

Otoh, Jordan was the primary defender on the other team's best player ANYTIME THEY WERE A GUARD, including Magic, Gary Payton (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meL62CUehuw), Reggie Miller, Isiah Thomas (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9MfhFFE7fc), Clyde Drexler, John Stockton (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOuMwmXtgd0), Kevin Johnson (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6K2rBgOqGCw), Tim Hardaway (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9ouMPqEk-s), Rod Strickland (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3JqY3CECW8), etc., etc.

Again, the only reason people revise history now, is because of MJ bias/fatigue.. But at the time, EVERYONE knew MJ was the best defender, including the mainstream media:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOgJhzj4W9M&t=35m00s

[sdot_thadon]

Pippen guarded Mark Jackson once, the slowest PG of all-time - yet that's enough to say he defended better than MJ because people are so biased by their MJ fatigue.. But show me another time he was the primary defender on a PG?

Otoh, Jordan was the primary defender on the other team's best player ANYTIME THEY WERE A GUARD, including Magic, Gary Payton (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meL62CUehuw), Reggie Miller, Isiah Thomas (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9MfhFFE7fc), Clyde Drexler, John Stockton (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOuMwmXtgd0), Kevin Johnson (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6K2rBgOqGCw), Tim Hardaway (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9ouMPqEk-s), Rod Strickland (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3JqY3CECW8), etc., etc.

Again, the only reason people revise history now, is because of MJ bias/fatigue.. But at the time, EVERYONE knew MJ was the best defender, including the mainstream media:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOgJhzj4W9M&t=35m00s
Pippen was the same level of perimeter defender while being more versatile.

[3ball]

Pippen was the same level of perimeter defender while being more versatile.
^^^ This is something you're making up after the fact, based on nothing.

AT THE TIME - before your revised history - MJ was considered the best defender on the Bulls:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOgJhzj4W9M&t=35m00s


MJ defended the PG and SG spots better.. That's not disputable.. Pippen was never the primary defender on PG's, whereas MJ was all the time.

Again, you're just revising history after the fact.. It's no different then some kid coming on here 20 years from now saying Harden was a great midrange player.. It's ridiculous.
.

[3ball]

:facepalm

[sdot_thadon]

^^^ This is something you're making up after the fact, based on nothing.

AT THE TIME - before your revised history - MJ was considered the best defender on the Bulls:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOgJhzj4W9M&t=35m00s


MJ defended the PG and SG spots better.. That's not disputable.. Pippen never even guarded PG's...

Again, you're just trying to revise history after the fact.. It's no different then some kid coming on here 20 years from now saying Harden was a great midrange player.. It's ridiculous.
Pippen is considered by some the goat perimeter defender. It is what it is. He was more versatile, he could capably guard more positions on the floor. It's easy, it's fact, get over it.

[3ball]

Bean wasn't saying he was better than MJ or anything, just that he has more basketball mileage at 37 than MJ did. Yeah it's an excuse, and I don't think the gap between mileage is as severe few make it out to be (MJ played college ball, and was THE go-to guy the moment he was drafted) - but its still technically a fact.
good points

and also, mj missed 5 seasons - that HURTS his legacy, because he would've been a huge favorite to win the championship 3-4 of those seasons... So he'd have more than 6 rings if he hadnt missed all that time.
.

[3ball]

Pippen is considered by some the goat perimeter defender. It is what it is. He was more versatile, he could capably guard more positions on the floor. It's easy, it's fact, get over it.
Many more people think MJ is the better defender - and Pippen was only the primary defender on SF's... He only guarded SF's.

Whereas MJ guarded the other team's PG or SG, whoever was better..

So if Pippen was only the primary defender on SF's, while MJ guarded PG's and SG's, then how is Pippen a better all-round defender?.. He isn't, except for new fans like you that are revising history...

Like, it's on the RECORD that everyone thought MJ was the better defender at the time - this was common knowledge - new fans are the only ones saying Pippen was a better defender.

[sdot_thadon]

MJ guarded point guards better - this is a fact... Pippen was never the primary defender on point guards, whereas MJ was all the time.

MJ guarded SG's better.

So if MJ guarded poiint guards and Sg's better, then how is Pippen a better all-round defender?
He guarded 4 positions effectively and Mj only guarded 3. I'll keep it basic so you can process it 4>3.

[Straight_Ballin]

He guarded 4 positions effectively and Mj only guarded 3. I'll keep it basic so you can process it 4>3.

Jordan guarded 3 positions more effectively than Pippen guarded 4.

Try again.

[3ball]

He guarded 4 positions effectively and Mj only guarded 3. I'll keep it basic so you can process it 4>3.
Pippen never guarded PF's.. This is something you are blatantly making up..

Show me where he was the primary defender on a PF, or stfu... Seriously, you're blatantly lying here and it's pathetic.

Pippen only guarded SF's, whereas MJ guarded PG's and SG's... Therefore, MJ was the better all-round defender.

[sdot_thadon]

Jordan guarded 3 positions more effectively than Pippen guarded 4.

Try again.
Where's your proof?

[3ball]

Jordan guarded 3 positions more effectively than Pippen guarded 4.

Try again.
Pippen never guarded PF's!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Where do you get the idea that Pippen guarded PF's????.. How can you guys create stuff out of thin air?

Pippen only guarded SF's, whereas MJ guarded PG's and SG's... Therefore, MJ was the better all-round defender.

[Monta Ellis MVP]

gimme a break... mj missing 5 seasons HURT his legacy because he'd have more than 6 rings.

for at least 3 or 4 of those seasons, he would've been the prohibitive favorite to win the championship.. so let's say he played all 5 seasons - surely mj would have at least a 7th ring, which would only expand the massive gap that already exists between him and Kobe.

otoh, kobe got to play every single season for 19 years, and still has less rings, despite playing with FAR more talent - kobe didn't have to build a team into a champion... he didn't have to coddle Pippen from a 7 ppg rookie to a HOF... Shaq and Phil had to coddle HIM.

anyway, rant over.

Michael would of won at least one more championship.

[sdot_thadon]

Pippen never guarded PF's.. This is something you are blatantly making up..

Show me where he was the primary defender on a PF, or stfu... Seriously, you're blatantly lying here and it's pathetic.

Pippen only guarded SF's, whereas MJ guarded PG's and SG's... Therefore, MJ was the better all-round defender.
Pippen did spot duty at pf and the other positions. The same as mj did spot duty at any position besides sg. Unless you wanna sit here and tell me Mj held down 2 positions simultaneously.

[3ball]

Where's your proof?
Where is your proof that Pippen guarded PF's????... You just made this up.. There isn't a SINGLE TIME in Pippen's career where he was the primary defender on a PF.. Not a single time.

And he was only the primary defender on a point guard once, when he guarded Mark Jackson... Pippen was essentially never the primary defender on PF's or PG's... He ONLY guarded SF's.

Otoh, MJ was the primary defender on PG's and SG's - therefore he's the better all-round defender.

[fpliii]

He guarded 4 positions effectively and Mj only guarded 3. I'll keep it basic so you can process it 4>3.
Just jumping in here...

Foot speed/lateral quickness is possibly the most valuable asset a perimeter defender can have. In the half court, guys get open from one of two defensive errors:

(1) blow bys
(2) missed rotations

Quickness helps with both, especially (1), and MJ was quicker on his feet than Scottie.

Now note I'm not taking into account shot defense. How well you contest a shot is important too, but the difference between a guy being open or not is titanic.

[3ball]

Pippen did spot duty at pf and the other positions. The same as mj did spot duty at any position besides sg.


MJ was frequently the primary, all-game defender on point guards.

It wasn't spot duty... He was the primary, all-game defender on Magic, Gary Payton (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meL62CUehuw), Reggie Miller, Isiah Thomas (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9MfhFFE7fc), Clyde Drexler, John Stockton (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOuMwmXtgd0), Kevin Johnson (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6K2rBgOqGCw), Tim Hardaway (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9ouMPqEk-s), Rod Strickland (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3JqY3CECW8), etc., etc.

Otoh, Pippen was only the primary defender on SF's... Since MJ could be the primary defender on more positions, he was the better all-round defender.

[Straight_Ballin]

Jordan fam runs this site.

[Iam]

The Goat tutored and trained his Robin.

[B]

[Cocaine80s]

Jordan fam runs this site.
Because y'all old as shit and got nothing better to do

[sdot_thadon]

Where is your proof that Pippen guarded PF's????... You just made this up.. There isn't a SINGLE TIME in Pippen's career where he was the primary defender on a PF.. Not a single time.

And he was only the primary defender on a point guard once, when he guarded Mark Jackson... Pippen was essentially never the primary defender on PF's or PG's... He ONLY guarded SF's.

Otoh, MJ was the primary defender on PG's and SG's - therefore he's the better all-round defender.
The wonders checking your shit before posting will do for you bro.


"The first round, I guarded (Washington's Juwan Howard) who's pretty much a power forward, so it took a lot from me offensively to have to give a full effort defensively," Pippen said.


http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1997-05-12/sports/9705120211_1_scottie-pippen-bulls-hawks-guard-steve-smith

That's just one quick example. I can post more, so quit while you're ahead.

[sdot_thadon]

Just jumping in here...

Foot speed/lateral quickness is possibly the most valuable asset a perimeter defender can have. In the half court, guys get open from one of two defensive errors:

(1) blow bys
(2) missed rotations

Quickness helps with both, especially (1), and MJ was quicker on his feet than Scottie.

Now note I'm not taking into account shot defense. How well you contest a shot is important too, but the difference between a guy being open or not is titanic.
I definitely agree here. He was more mobile than Scottie. I'm not even arguing scottie was better. Just that he's debatable because he has strengths of his own. Pippen gets undervalued here alot to push an agenda.

[3ball]

The wonders checking your shit before posting will do for you bro.



http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1997-05-12/sports/9705120211_1_scottie-pippen-bulls-hawks-guard-steve-smith

That's just one quick example. I can post more, so quit while you're ahead.
Juwan Howard played SF for the Wizards that entire season and playoffs, while Webber played PF... This is common knowledge and it shows how desperate you are.

Again, there isn't a SINGLE TIME in Pippen's career where he was the primary defender on a PF.. Not a single time.

Pippen was only the primary defender on SF's... Since MJ could be the primary defender on more positions - PG and SG - he was the better all-round defender.

[sdot_thadon]

Juwan Howard played SF for the Wizards that entire season and playoffs, while Webber played PF... This is common knowledge and it shows how desperate you are.

Again, there isn't a SINGLE TIME in Pippen's career where he was the primary defender on a PF.. Not a single time.

Pippen was only the primary defender on SF's... Since MJ could be the primary defender on more positions - PG and SG - he was the better all-round defender.
He also was the primary defender on barkely. Make another excuse.

[fpliii]

I definitely agree here. He was more mobile than Scottie. I'm not even arguing scottie was better. Just that he's debatable because he has strengths of his own. Pippen gets undervalued here alot to push an agenda.
Here's the thing about MJ vs Scottie (I know you aren't arguing them necessarily, but the point has to be made).

(1) MJ had a superior motor (Scottie was more affected in 93 by the Olympics and deep playoff runs than MJ was).

(2) Shot-creation takes up a lot of energy. MJ had greater responsibility in the offense (even when Scottie became the primary ball-handler), as he was tasked with creating more shots for himself within the offense. He had the superior motor during the first threepeat in spite of this.

In general, I think it's tough to compare offensive superstars defensively to specialists, since specialists can give 100% effort on one end. Among superstar offensive players though, I think MJ has a very good case as GOAT perimeter defender.

[Monta Ellis MVP]

He also was the primary defender on barkely. Make another excuse.

Charles Barkley is not your typical Power Forward. He is not a good example to use.

[Straight_Ballin]

Because y'all old as shit and got nothing better to do

We kinda busy tho cause lebum fam moms asking us to come keep bed warm just like Da Real Lambo keep Gloria bed nice and warm.

Only 3000 some post in 2.5 years is more effective than 8000+ post in one year * 6 accounts. It's analogous to Jordan not having a single wasted movement his entire career unlike bron with that 2/6 record.

Why so insecure around Jordan fam?

[sdot_thadon]

Charles Barkley is not your typical Power Forward. He is not a good example to use.
Excuses, he's a power forward.

[3ball]

He also was the primary defender on barkely. Make another excuse.
Show me where he guarded Barkley as the primary defender - where he STARTED THE GAME on Barkley, the way MJ started the game on PG's.

Otherwise, Pippen only guarded Barkley when he was caught on a switch.

You're literally just making stuff up and offering zero proof - if what you're saying was true, it would take 30 seconds to find it on youtube.. But it isn't - you're just hoping posters let you slide by saying Pippen was the primary defender Barkley, when it was only spot-duty or being caught on switch.

[sdot_thadon]

Show me where he guarded Barkley as the primary defender - where he STARTED THE GAME on Barkley, the way MJ started the game on PG's.

Otherwise, Pippen only guarded Barkley when he was caught on a switch.

You're literally just making stuff up and offering zero proof - if what you're saying was true, it would take 30 seconds to find it on youtube.. But it isn't - you're just hoping posters let you slide by saying Pippen was the primary defender Barkley, when it was only spot-duty or being caught on switch.
Not really sure what this obsession is of adding all these qualifications to the post bro.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7SGe-vp_l8U
:kobe:
Next.

Edit: and this really needs it's own thread so you can continue being embarrassed there. Quit derailing this one.

[3ball]

Excuses, he's a power forward.



I have no problem ethering your attempts to revise history by copy-and-pasting the same facts over and over.. Oh look, I did it again...





Here's the thing - show me where Pippen was the primary defender on point guard other than Mark Jackson... I'm serious... Show me where he was.

Show me where he was the primary defender on a power forwards.... He never was... PIPPEN WAS ONLY THE PRIMARY DEFENDER ON SF'S..

Otoh, we know that MJ was the primary defender on PG's, SG's, and SF's alike.. So how can Pippen be a better defender when MJ was capable of primary defense on more positions?

But it's more than this - the common knowledge AT THE TIME, was the MJ was the superior defender - this is a FACT (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOgJhzj4W9M&t=35m00s)... So why even try to revise history and say Pippen was the better defender?.. Can't you see that's a latent narrative created long after the fact and it's false?

[fpliii]

Here's the thing - show me where Pippen was the primary defender on point guard other than Mark Jackson... I'm serious... Show me where he was.

Show me where he was the primary defender on a power forwards.... He never was... PIPPEN WAS ONLY THE PRIMARY DEFENDER ON SF'S..

Otoh, we know that MJ was the primary defender on PG's and SG's alike.. So how can Pippen be a better defender when MJ was capable of primary defense on more positions?

But it's more than this - the common knowledge AT THE TIME, was the MJ was the superior defender - this is a FACT (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOgJhzj4W9M&t=35m00s)... So why even try to revise history and say Pippen was the better defender?.. Can't you see that's a latent narrative created long after the fact and it's false?
I think you quoted the wrong person 3ball. Read my two posts. I agreed with you...

[3ball]

I think you quoted the wrong person 3ball. Read my two posts. I agreed with you...
whoops my bad.. i went back and changed it

[OldSchoolBBall]

He also was the primary defender on barkely. Make another excuse.

For like one half of one regular season game in '94 or '95 (I forget), and one quarter in the '90 or '91 playoffs. That's it. At no point was he the primary defender on Barkley for an entire game - he would have gotten destroyed. Let's be real here.

[3ball]

Not really sure what this obsession is of adding all these qualifications to the post bro.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7SGe-vp_l8U
:kobe:
Next.

Edit: and this really needs it's own thread so you can continue being embarrassed there. Quit derailing this one.
Pippen wasn't the primary defender on Barkley in that game.

You only posted the video to show the announcers providing compliments to Pippen, which all announcers do for all players.

But again, other than Mark Jackson, there isn't a single time in Pippen's career where he was the primary defender on a PF or PG.. Not a single time... Pippen was only the primary defender on SF's.. Since MJ could be the primary defender on more positions - PG and SG - he was the better all-round defender.

But it's more than this - the common knowledge AT THE TIME, was that MJ was the superior defender - this is a FACT (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOgJhzj4W9M&t=35m00s)... So why even try to revise history and say Pippen was the better defender?.. Can't you see that's a latent narrative created long after the fact and it's false?
.

[sdot_thadon]

3ball, you're drunk. Go home.:oldlol:


Scottie Pippen scores 35 points and adds 9 rebounds, 6 assists, 4 steals, and 2 blocks vs. the Suns. His defense against Barkley was the key to the game. Barkley was taking advantage of the Bulls weak interior defense until Pippen started guarding him making a series of great defensive plays. As a result Pippen held Barkley without a score for nearly 2 qtrs and the Bulls took over the game.

I still don't see what this primary defender obsession is bro. I stated that Pippen was more versatile, which basically means he's more prone to be switched to different matchups in any given game. Primary or not primary doesn't add anything nor take away from my statement. You said he didn't guard PF's at all, I showed you where he did. If you want to ignore it, proves my point either way. A 30 second youtube search no less....

[3ball]

You said he didn't guard PF's at all, I showed you where he did. If you want to ignore it, proves my point either way. A 30 second youtube search no less....


Other than Mark Jackson, there isn't a single time in Pippen's career where he was the primary defender on a PF or PG.. Not a single time... Pippen was only the primary defender on SF's.. Since MJ could be the primary defender on more positions - PG, SG's and SF's - he was the better all-round defender.

But it's more than this - the common knowledge AT THE TIME, was that MJ was the superior defender - this is a FACT (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOgJhzj4W9M&t=35m00s)... So why even try to revise history and say Pippen was the better defender?.. Can't you see that's a latent narrative created long after the fact and it's false?

[sdot_thadon]

Other than Mark Jackson, there isn't a single time in Pippen's career where he was the primary defender on a PF or PG.. Not a single time... Pippen was only the primary defender on SF's.. Since MJ could be the primary defender on more positions - PG, SG's and SF's - he was the better all-round defender.

But it's more than this - the common knowledge AT THE TIME, was that MJ was the superior defender - this is a FACT (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOgJhzj4W9M&t=35m00s)... So why even try to revise history and say Pippen was the better defender?.. Can't you see that's a latent narrative created long after the fact and it's false?
Uh oh froze his computer, I'll accept your white flag as you have nothing else to say on the matter. Next time buddy.

[Straight_Ballin]

Uh oh froze his computer, I'll accept your white flag as you have nothing else to say on the matter. Next time buddy.

What's left to say. MJ was the superior defender and you have a straw man argument.:lol

[JT123]

What's left to say. MJ was the superior defender and you have a straw man argument.:lol
QUICK, log into your LBJFTW account and say something about Jordan stans owning the thread!

[sdot_thadon]

What's left to say. MJ was the superior defender and you have a straw man argument.:lol
I never said who was better, just who was more versatile. I supplied proof, you dudes back pedaled, game over. Strawman my ass.

[3ball]

It's interesting, because I don't think Pippen was ever the primary defender on a SG either.

So other than Mark Jackson, Pippen was never the primary defender on PG's, SG's or PF's.. He was only the primary defender on SF's.. Otoh, we know that MJ was the primary defender on PG's, SG's, and SF's alike.

MJ's capability of being the primary defender on a larger number of positions means he's the better all-round defender.. I guess that's why before people started revising history, it was common knowledge at the time (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOgJhzj4W9M&t=35m00s), that MJ was the superior defender.

[3ball]

I never said who was better, just who was more versatile. I supplied proof, you dudes back pedaled, game over. Strawman my ass.
MJ guarded Vlade Divac in the 1991 Finals, but you don't see me gloating about that, because it was spot-duty... But keep bragging about the one time Pippen did spot-duty on Barkley... :rolleyes:

I don't need to brag about Vlade, because MJ was the PRIMARY defender on pg's, sg's, and sf's alike... Otoh, other than Mark Jackson, Pippen was never the primary defender on PG's, SG's or PF's.. He was only the primary defender on SF's, which makes him a less versatile defender.

MJ's capability of being the primary defender on a larger number of positions means he's the better all-round defender.. I guess that's why before people started revising history, it was common knowledge at the time (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOgJhzj4W9M&t=35m00s), that MJ was the superior defender.

[Mr. Jabbar]

Can't believe the things you have to read here. Which mental hospital did this guy escape from? Holy shit.

Does he expect that over repeating this stuff non-stop and twisting words his shit will somehow stick? Fkn psychopath.

[3ball]

Can't believe the things you have to read here. Which mental hospital did this guy escape from? Holy shit.

Does he expect that over repeating this stuff non-stop and twisting words his shit will somehow stick? Fkn psychopath.


Face the facts - MJ was the PRIMARY defender on pg's, sg's, and sf's alike... Otoh, other than Mark Jackson, Pippen was never the primary defender on PG's, SG's or PF's.. He was only the primary defender on SF's, which makes him a less versatile defender.

MJ's capability of being the primary defender on a larger number of positions means he's the better all-round defender.. I guess that's why before people started revising history, it was common knowledge at the time (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOgJhzj4W9M&t=35m00s), that MJ was the superior defender.
.

[Mr. Jabbar]

https://rewardme-in.secure.footprint.net/Assets/Modules/Editorial/Article/Images/duracell-bunny-story-1-size-3.jpg

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/J1FI8FE3DnQ/maxresdefault.jpg

[sdot_thadon]

:D

[3ball]

https://rewardme-in.secure.footprint.net/Assets/Modules/Editorial/Article/Images/duracell-bunny-story-1-size-3.jpg

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/J1FI8FE3DnQ/maxresdefault.jpg
nice

[3ball]

:facepalm

[3ball]

Regarding Pippen and MJ's defense, let's face the facts:

MJ was the primary defender on pg's, sg's, and sf's alike... Otoh, other than Mark Jackson, Pippen was never the primary defender on PG's, SG's or PF's.. He was only the primary defender on SF's, which makes him a less versatile defender.

MJ's capability of being the primary defender on a larger number of positions means he's the better all-round defender.. I guess that's why before new fans started revising history, it was common knowledge at the time (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOgJhzj4W9M&t=35m00s), that MJ was the superior defender.

[Straight_Ballin]

QUICK, log into your LBJFTW account and say something about Jordan stans owning the thread!

Sorry dubeta, but me 3ball, sportingjames, don, and lbjftw are all different posters.

[dubeta]

QUICK, log into your LBJFTW account and say something about Jordan stans owning the thread!


:oldlol:

[sdot_thadon]

Regarding Pippen and MJ's defense, let's face the facts:

MJ was the primary defender on pg's, sg's, and sf's alike... Otoh, other than Mark Jackson, Pippen was never the primary defender on PG's, SG's or PF's.. He was only the primary defender on SF's, which makes him a less versatile defender.

MJ's capability of being the primary defender on a larger number of positions means he's the better all-round defender.. I guess that's why before new fans started revising history, it was common knowledge at the time (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOgJhzj4W9M&t=35m00s), that MJ was the superior defender.
I'm done here, there's a thread for it now. And quit lying dude, you got problems.

[Euroleague]

Let Hakeem have his 30 a night. Lock everyone else down especially their perimeter shooters and say goodnight to the Rockets.

Houston especially in 94 would not be able to stop Jordan or Pippen.

That team needed 7 to beat the Knicks (and John Starks choking) to win, the Bulls were always better than the Knicks.

1996 Sonics clowned Hakeem and the Rockets, but they weren't any real threat to the Bulls (Chicago took their foot off the pedal after getting up 3-0 but snapped out of it to finish the job).

Bulls would have beat Houston in 94 and 95 and absolutely raped them in 96 if the Rockets could've even gotten that far.

You have no freaking clue in hell WTF you are talking about.

[ShawkFactory]

I'm done here, there's a thread for it now. And quit lying dude, you got problems.
Literally no point in engaging with 3ball

[9erempiree]

Lets face it...Kobe is a better player than MJ. We saw how washed up MJ was at the same age as Kobe. Kobe while showing a decline, isn't as bad of a player MJ was.

Guys like MJ that rely on athleticism usually have a steeper decline than a skill based player like Kobe, who was an amazing athlete when he was in his prime though.

[ShawkFactory]

Lets face it...Kobe is a better player than MJ. We saw how washed up MJ was at the same age as Kobe. Kobe while showing a decline, isn't as bad of a player MJ was.

Guys like MJ that rely on athleticism usually have a steeper decline than a skill based player like Kobe, who was an amazing athlete when he was in his prime though.
You're trying too hard...or not hard enough.

Either way it's fvcking garbage.

[9erempiree]

You're trying too hard...or not hard enough.

Either way it's fvcking garbage.

How so?

Is it not true what I am saying. All you have to do is see where Kobe and MJ was at the end of their career to know Kobe is the better player. Your career doesn't stop after its peak/prime. It's the overall body of work.

Whether Kobe shows it on the court remains to be seen but in terms of skill and ability. Kobe is better than MJ and he's not even done yet, while MJ was done. Athleticism players don't last very long like MJ.

Now you can say MJ was an all star still but he was literally given a spot for sentimental reasons.

The sad part is this could be Kobe's last year and we are seeing any respect for one of the greatest players of all time. I believe every arena he goes to will have some sort of tribute to him.

[ShawkFactory]

How so?

Is it not true what I am saying. All you have to do is see where Kobe and MJ was at the end of their career to know Kobe is the better player. Your career doesn't stop after its peak/prime. It's the overall body of work.

Whether Kobe shows it on the court remains to be seen but in terms of skill and ability. Kobe is better than MJ and he's not even done yet, while MJ was done. Athleticism players don't last very long like MJ.

Now you can say MJ was an all star still but he was literally given a spot for sentimental reasons.

The sad part is this could be Kobe's last year and we are seeing any respect for one of the greatest players of all time. I believe every arena he goes to will have some sort of tribute to him.
At 38 Jordan was averaging 25/6/5 at the all-star break.

[Mr Feeny]

How so?

Is it not true what I am saying. All you have to do is see where Kobe and MJ was at the end of their career to know Kobe is the better player. Your career doesn't stop after its peak/prime. It's the overall body of work.

Whether Kobe shows it on the court remains to be seen but in terms of skill and ability. Kobe is better than MJ and he's not even done yet, while MJ was done. Athleticism players don't last very long like MJ.

Now you can say MJ was an all star still but he was literally given a spot for sentimental reasons.

The sad part is this could be Kobe's last year and we are seeing any respect for one of the greatest players of all time. I believe every arena he goes to will have some sort of tribute to him.

Kobe Bryant is not even a top 200 player today tbf. He's probably 11-13 all time and dropping.

[Mr. Jabbar]

I came to help but god dammit, 9erempiree single handedly body bagging everyone here. Savage.

[Straight_Ballin]

You're trying too hard...or not hard enough.

Either way it's fvcking garbage.

2/6 is garbage also.

[HOoopCityJones]

Crack Cocaine.

[ShawkFactory]

2/6 is garbage also.
Bro I'm defending MJ.

Get Lebron's d!ck out of your mouth.

[3ball]

.
JERRY KRAUSE, Bulls GM:


“Would Pippen have been great someplace else?

Michael absolutely killed Scottie in practice every day for his first two years. Mike just tore Pip up. He made Pip learn how to compete and forced him into playing hard. Had there not been someone to challenge Scottie like that, I’m not sure what would’ve happened to him... No, Michael made him a man.

Michael made him a man and Doug [Collins] did a great job with him in his first year. And he - Collins - had Michael to beat on him for a year every day in practice and Michael beat him to death."

http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/nba/news/story?id=5453558

[3ball]

Bulls wouldn't have beaten Rockets in 1994.. The Bulls had no way in hell of stopping Olajuwon.


They stopped the teams of Shaq, Ewing, and Mourning... That's enough for me to say they would've stopped Olajuwon's team too.

You're the one with no basis to say they would've lost to Olajuwon.

[3ball]

This was the consensus about Pippen:



Bill Laimbeer:


"The Jordan Rules were to just stop him, because no one else could beat you on that ballclub"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2v0LOhjsJs&t=1m22s



Chuck Daly:


"It doesn't entail me playing you necessarily... it's our 5.... playing... you."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gCMWuCdsGQ&t=27m41s



Chuck Daly:


"We knew how dangerous he was and we knew going into the playoffs that we had to do something special.. So we most definitely devised what we called "the Jordan Rules""

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIY_4vIxGEE&t=22m49s



Bill Laimbeer:


"We didn't even think about Scottie Pippen. It was Michael Jordan and the Jordannaires - and you can't win championships like that with only 1 player."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqC74bv46Z8&t=1h07m33s



Shaquille O'Neal:

"You did okay, but MJ did most of the work"

"Remember I WAS BATMAN YOU WAS ROBIN , I was PUFFY YOU WAS MASE"

"See what happens when Michael Jordan ain't protecting you, you lose a 17 pt lead in the fourth quarter." (referring to 2000 WCF Game 7)


Phil Jackson:


"Don't leave Michael all alone here. It's not TIME yet."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOgJhzj4W9M&t=30m20s

This was Phil Jackson during a huddle in the 1991 NBA Finals, showing how the everyday game plan was to leave Michael alone and let him do everything down the stretch of games.



Dumars and Isiah:


"Isiah said he sat out by the water for 4-5 hours (thinking about MJ)".

"Dumars and i were on the phone for hours, talking about 23 in red."

"Isiah called me at 3 in the morning and said 'I think i finally figured out a way to stop MJ"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqC74bv46Z8&t=1h05m33s

This was Dumars' and Isiah's reaction to the Bulls taking 2-1 series lead in 1989 ECF after MJ hit GW over Rodman.. The last quote is from assistant coach Brendan Malone, who said that Isiah called at 3 am to talk about stopping MJ.




Reporter Pat O'Brien in 1989, confirming that Chuck Daly's championship defense was about stopping 1 guy via the "Jordan Rules":


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2v0LOhjsJs&t=3m27s




Horace Grant:


"If it wasn't for MJ, I don't think I'd be sitting here right now. I mean, would've had a decent career, but for a leader like that to lead you to 3 championships..."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_aYOQVWSCY&t=14m44s


Scottie Pippen:


"It was the pressure. As the pressure grew, the pounding grew. I wasn't able to answer the bell."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqC74bv46Z8&t=1h22m15s

This was Pippen in the Bad Boys documentary ADMITTING he the pressure caused him to disappear in 1990 ECF Game 7 - this cost the Bulls a trip to the Finals and the ring - (Bulls would've beaten Blazers - Blazers only took Pistons 6, while Bulls took then 7.

[3ball]

2010 Gasol : 20 / 11.1 / 3.5 / 2.1-bpg on 60%TS (24.0 PER)
-
91 Pippen : 21.6 / 8.9 / 5.8 / 2.5-spg on 56%TS (22.0 PER)
-
00 Kobe : 21.1 / 4.5 / 4.4 / 1.5-spg on 52%TS (19.3 PER)

Gasol > Pippen > Kobe

:kobe:


Exactly.. Gasol was great right away, so if we're drafting him to 100 teams, he would do better on a greater number of teams than a player like Pippen, who needed a ton of development, and therefore could only do well on the right teams where that development would be realized.. (i.e. his 7 ppg rookie capability would get buried on the 1988 Laker bench, or any good team, so he needed to land on a bad team with the right environment, which he got with the Bulls).

So out of all those teams, it's a good thing Pippen happened to land on the goat's team.. Yet a lot of people think it's a coincidence that he turned out the way he did... :roll:

It's not close when you consider Pippen's WOAT 2nd option performance:

1988 ECSF:.. 9 ppg on 42%
1989 ECF:... 10 ppg on 40%
1996 Finals: 15 ppg on 34%
1998 Finals: 15 ppg on 41%

Then he had the epic choke in Game 7 of 1990 ECF, which cost the Bulls their first championship - they would've beaten the Blazers in the Finals since the Pistons beat the Blazers in 6, but needed 7 and Pippen choke to beat Bulls.

[TheBigVeto]

Kobe is right, his 37 is not like MJ's 37.
MJ at age 37 is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> than Kobe at the same age.

[Straight_Ballin]

Exactly.. Gasol was great right away, so if we're drafting him to 100 teams, he would do better on a greater number of teams than a player like Pippen, who needed a ton of development, and therefore could only do well on the right teams where that development would be realized.. (i.e. his 7 ppg rookie capability would get buried on the 1988 Laker bench, or any good team, so he needed to land on a bad team with the right environment, which he got with the Bulls).

So out of all those teams, it's a good thing Pippen happened to land on the goat's team.. Yet a lot of people think it's a coincidence that he turned out the way he did... :roll:

It's not close when you consider Pippen's WOAT 2nd option performance:

1988 ECSF:.. 9 ppg on 42%
1989 ECF:... 10 ppg on 40%
1996 Finals: 15 ppg on 34%
1998 Finals: 15 ppg on 41%

Then he had the epic choke in Game 7 of 1990 ECF, which cost the Bulls their first championship - they would've beaten the Blazers in the Finals since the Pistons beat the Blazers in 6, but needed 7 and Pippen choke to beat Bulls.

Also Wade in 2012 and 2013 Finals was > Pippen in 96 and 98. This just makes Jordan's 96 and 98 finals that much more impressive than Lebron's since he had less help.

[Wade's Rings]

You guys are ridiculous.

If you took all the Top 10 GOAT candidates and ranked their second-options from best to worst Gasol would be near the bottom, if not the worst.

Pippen (Jordan's sidekick)
Wade (LeBron's sidekick) (3rd option Bosh is as good if not better than Gasol)
McHale (Bird's sidekick) (3rd option Parish is as good if not better than Gasol)
Kareem (Magic's "sidekick")
Magic (Kareem's "sidekick" on the Lakers) (3rd option Worthy is as good if not better than Gasol)
Oscar Robertson (Kareem's sidekick on the bucks)
Kobe (Shaq's "sidekick")
Jerry West (Wilt's sidekick)
Heat Shaq (Wade's sidekick)
Tony Parker (Duncan's sidekick) (3rd option Manu is as good if not better than Gasol)

ALL better 2nd options than Gasol.


And :oldlol: at you Stanleys cherry-picking stats.

Pippen >>> Gasol.

Pippen was able to be a successful sidekick to the tune of SIX championships. While Gasol could only muster enough elite play for "only" 2 (less than half of Pippen's). He got herbed out in 2008, 2011, 2012, and 2013 with a million excuses made for his pansy ass mostly by LeBron/Jordan Stanleys who want to overrated the sh*t out out him to downgrade Kobe.

Not to mention as a first option Pippen took his teams much farther than Gasol did as a first option. Pippen actually won playoff games as a first option.

Even in the "championship veteran on a talented contending team" role that Gasol is playing now, Pippen played it much better than him. Leading the Blazers to within a 4th quarter meltdown/comeback to being in the NBA Finals. While Gasol just sat on his p*ssy ass and again underperformed in the playoffs for the Bulls.

Also, your precious PER doesn't take into account Pippen's elite defense, nor the fact that he was essentially defacto PG quarterbacking the Triangle offense for Jordan and the rest of the Bulls.

:roll: