Execs say Kobe has turned Lakers into Titanic

[JT123]

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/13852924/losangeles-lakers-embracing-new-reality

"It's like [they think], 'We're not on the Titanic.' Yeah, you are," an executive said. "'No, we're not. It's all right. No, we're good.' No, you're not good. You're not good. It's sinking. People are in lifeboats. They're jumping off. You're not good."

[sportjames23]

#alquiler libre

[Vaniiiia]

:oldlol:

Perfect analogy. Execs agree with what you, I, and many others have been saying.

kobe is cancer.

[SouBeachTalents]

Mr. Jabbar was right

[Mr. Jabbar]

http://i.imgur.com/caYxeaU.jpg

[kennethgriffin]

More nameless people



I dunno.. lakers look like theyre on the right track to me

[Foster5k]

Damn, Kobe's game has evolved. He's gone from shooting bricks to shooting icebergs.

[Levity]

Damn, Kobe's game has evolved. He's gone from shooting bricks to shooting icebergs.

haha damn dude. your jokes today are swinging and missing worse than stevie wonder going after a pinata.

[Dr Hawk]

http://i.imgur.com/caYxeaU.jpg
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[clipps]

More nameless people



I dunno.. lakers look like theyre on the right track to me

:roll: If that's what you want to call it.

[Vaniiiia]

haha damn dude. your jokes today are swinging and missing worse than stevie wonder going after a pinata.
Don't reply to a bad joke with another bad joke, leave that to kobe on jimmy kimmel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eX3wAZ0yr7w

[KobesFinger]

http://i1287.photobucket.com/albums/a621/KobesFinger/JT123_zpsaknaknb8.png (http://s1287.photobucket.com/user/KobesFinger/media/JT123_zpsaknaknb8.png.html)

Did you make this app?

[sammichoffate]

https://i.imgur.com/e6Xwwuy.gif

[HurricaneKid]

The problem is their 3B TV deal depends on ratings and Laker fans are dumb and want to watch the carcass of Kobe, Swaggy P, etc. So rather than developing a winning culture and team they attempt to chase ratings.

So here we are. If you were KD or RWB would you really want to go to a team that has Kobe, Lou Will, AND Swaggy P? Would you go to a team that swears by its dinosaur coach when he preaches a losing style?

[Foster5k]

https://i.imgur.com/e6Xwwuy.gif
He's counting how many times he's going to get injured this season.

[riseagainst]

http://i1287.photobucket.com/albums/a621/KobesFinger/JT123_zpsaknaknb8.png (http://s1287.photobucket.com/user/KobesFinger/media/JT123_zpsaknaknb8.png.html)

Did you make this app?


:roll:

[sammichoffate]

He's counting how many times he's going to get injured this season.https://nesncom.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/lebron-james1.gif?w=450&h=253

[R.I.P.]

I

[Foster5k]

The Titanic was labeled as the ship that could not be sunk.

In the Lakers case, it's a ship that cannot sail unless they throw Kobe overboard.

[Nick Young]

NBA execs also though Lakers made a mistake trading Shaq instead of Kobe.


NBA execs don't know jack shit.

[Doranku]

He's counting how many times he's going to get injured this season.

nah he's counting how many L's Bron will have in the finals after this season

[DoctorP]

it is what it is. :/

[poido123]

Since Jerry left, the organisation hasn't been the same...


Not Kobe's fault the organisation wants to pay him over 20 mil a year at his age.

[bigkingsfan]

Need to trade for Rose asap.

[JohnMax]

Foster5k jokes were really funny.

[Mr. Jabbar]

Foster5k jokes were really funny.

Foster5k is on fkn spree. ive counted like 4 TERRIBLE jokes in a ROW

[I<3NBA]

Buss Jr. made this ship sink. it was he who gave Kobe that ludicrous contract, he who made all the horrible decisions after his father died.

this franchise would suffer Clippers-like mediocrity till such time Buss Jr. no longer makes the decision for this franchise.

[buddha]

Kobe carried Phil Jackson to 5 rings just like Jordan carried him to 6. Look at what Phil has done to the Knicks, now that's titanic.

[TheBigVeto]

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/13852924/losangeles-lakers-embracing-new-reality

"It's like [they think], 'We're not on the Titanic.' Yeah, you are," an executive said. "'No, we're not. It's all right. No, we're good.' No, you're not good. You're not good. It's sinking. People are in lifeboats. They're jumping off. You're not good."

Ship be sinkin. It's gon be good.

[20Four]

He's counting how many times he's going to get injured this season.
Nah hes counting the amount of times he ****ed your mom last night

[Jameerthefear]

Nah hes counting the amount of times he ****ed your mom last night
Shut up midget. I'm over here with your little sis atm

[Vaniiiia]

Nah hes counting the amount of times he ****ed your mom last night
Bro what happened to my plane ticket?

You'z a coward.

[20Four]

Shut up midget. I'm over here with your little sis atm
I dont get why you call me a midget, but when I call you out to box you hide? Just STFU already you stupid son of a bitch? You really dont get it? nobody likes you in here, and you calling me a midget doesn't make sense, because I will **** you up anytime anywhere, I swear, just PM me your ****ing information so I can murder you already, I'm really tired of your bullshit.....

[GIF REACTION]

I dont get why you call me a midget, but when I call you out to box you hide? Just STFU already you stupid son of a bitch? You really dont get it? nobody likes you in here, and you calling me a midget doesn't make sense, because I will **** you up anytime anywhere, I swear, just PM me your ****ing information so I can murder you already, I'm really tired of your bullshit.....
I'll have a double meat cheeseburger with extra pickles, 2 serving of large fries, and a Capri sun

[Foster5k]

when I call you out to box you hide?.
:oldlol:

20Four the only thing you're boxing are those fries you're unpacking at Mickey Ds. Go Photoshop some more muscles in your avatar.

[Foster5k]

I'll have a double meat cheeseburger with extra pickles, 2 serving of large fries, and a Capri sun
:oldlol:

[TheBigVeto]

If the Lakers are Titanic, then Kobe is Kate Winslet and the Kobetards are Leo Di Caprio.

The ship will sink, the Kobetards will sacrifice themselves for their false god, and Kobe will live on to reminisce. Instead of a necklace, all he has are memories of having low IQ people who don't understand basketball being his stans.

[JT123]

:oldlol:

20Four the only thing you're boxing are those fries you're unpacking at Mickey Ds. Go Photoshop some more muscles in your avatar.
:roll:

[GIF REACTION]

:oldlol:

20Four the only thing you're boxing are those fries you're unpacking at Mickey Ds. Go Photoshop some more muscles in your avatar.
:roll:

[Vaniiiia]

Guy gets off from his 10 hour shift at McDonalds serving Big Macs and sausage burritos and immediately starts posting on ISH only to be bullied and ridiculed to the point he blatantly lies about buying people a plane ticket to come fight him

but then the big bad wolf (me) calls him out on his bullshit and now he's nowhere to be found anymore

Nigel? We're not done with you yet shrimp

[20Four]

:oldlol:

20Four the only thing you're boxing are those fries you're unpacking at Mickey Ds. Go Photoshop some more muscles in your avatar.

Thanks for giving me a compliment if you think its photoshop LOL and if you really think its photo shop ill PM you right now k?

[outbreak]

I dont get why you call me a midget, but when I call you out to box you hide? Just STFU already you stupid son of a bitch? You really dont get it? nobody likes you in here, and you calling me a midget doesn't make sense, because I will **** you up anytime anywhere, I swear, just PM me your ****ing information so I can murder you already, I'm really tired of your bullshit.....
http://thestamp.umd.edu/portals/0/Images/Food/mcdonalds.jpg

[Jameerthefear]

I dont get why you call me a midget, but when I call you out to box you hide? Just STFU already you stupid son of a bitch? You really dont get it? nobody likes you in here, and you calling me a midget doesn't make sense, because I will **** you up anytime anywhere, I swear, just PM me your ****ing information so I can murder you already, I'm really tired of your bullshit.....
Wire me the money n*gga. Where are you in Cali?

[20Four]

http://thestamp.umd.edu/portals/0/Images/Food/mcdonalds.jpg
Typicial leBRONZE family, all gang up and talk shit lmao but when I call you out nobody says shit....all I gotta say is, YOUR MY BITCH all of you and nothing you can do about it lol

[BasedTom]

:oldlol:

20Four the only thing you're boxing are those fries you're unpacking at Mickey Ds. Go Photoshop some more muscles in your avatar.
http://i.imgur.com/k6Ku15G.gif

[Foster5k]

Thanks for giving me a compliment if you think its photoshop LOL and if you really think its photo shop ill PM you right now k?
Lmao. Dude, nobody is impressed by those synthol inflated muscles. Although, unloading all those McDonalds trucks should give you a nice arm workout.

[20Four]

Lmao. Dude, nobody is impressed by those synthol inflated muscles. Although, unloading all those McDonalds trucks should give you a nice arm workout.
? You like to keep talking shit but wont PM me back? As I said, you will get free everything, free trip to california, and since I'm a nurse ill **** you up and then ill take care of you, free healthcare...I dont get why you dont take the offer.....

[TheBigVeto]

:oldlol:

20Four the only thing you're boxing are those fries you're unpacking at Mickey Ds. Go Photoshop some more muscles in your avatar.

:eek: :roll: :applause:

http://i1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh600/Rodman2124/kobeclutch.gif

[Foster5k]

? You like to keep talking shit but wont PM me back? As I said, you will get free everything, free trip to california, and since I'm a nurse ill **** you up and then ill take care of you, free healthcare...I dont get why you dont take the offer.....
Lol. Why did McDonalds have to get free WiFi. Now we can't get rid of this clown.

[20Four]

Lol. Why did McDonalds have to get free WiFi. Now we can't get rid of this clown.
LMAO I dont get why yall using my jokes now...lmao you mad I decided to become a nurse while you became a toilet cleaner in your moms brothel?

[Mr Feeny]

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/13852924/losangeles-lakers-embracing-new-reality

"It's like [they think], 'We're not on the Titanic.' Yeah, you are," an executive said. "'No, we're not. It's all right. No, we're good.' No, you're not good. You're not good. It's sinking. People are in lifeboats. They're jumping off. You're not good."

:roll: :roll:
It's incredible how frequently OP just demolishes Kobe stans on here. Every week or so, there's a new gem of a thread:oldlol:

[warriorfan]

:roll: :roll:
It's incredible how frequently OP just demolishes Kobe stans on here. Every week or so, there's a new gem of a thread:oldlol:

you are gay

[Mr Feeny]

you are gay

Somebody is really consumed with OP enough to get riled up hem someone praises him:cheers:

[Lebronxrings]

20four stop posting... you got bodybagged bro.

[ShaqTwizzle]

Sort of true honestly.
Ever since Kobe's decline in 2011 he has become an obvious anchor holding the Lakers back from their needed rebuild since unlike Duncan, Mr. Bryant is not the type to alter his role so the team can build or contend even as he declines.

The Lakers have become the Kobe show.
Its all about Kobe now. Everything revolves around him.
Team chemistry and balance plays a secondary role to Bryant's desires and his own personal stats.
In his Prime this wasn't much of an issue because he was so good individually and was able to find a decent enough balance where he could get his stats without completely fukking up team chemistry.
A declined Bryant doesn't have that ability or the luxury of choosing between the two anymore.

Kobe at this point and for atleast the last 3-4 years has just been holding the Lakers back outside of possibly money figures since Kobe is still a big draw.

Not sure how much any of that matters in the big picture though.
Kobe is "apparently" retireing this year so they can wait it out, try their best to develop guys around "the Kobe system" and then get serious next year and beyond.

I wouldn't call LAL the Titanic though.
That ship sunk years ago. Maybe in 2011.

[West-Side]

Only 3 teams have won MORE championships in their ENTIRE existence than Kobe Bryant has during his career.

Boston Celtics
LA Lakers
Chicago Bulls

The Spurs, have won as many titles as Kobe has, during their entire existence.
Wrap that around your heads.

[West-Side]

Sort of true honestly.
Ever since Kobe's decline in 2011 he has become an obvious anchor holding the Lakers back from their needed rebuild since unlike Duncan, Mr. Bryant is not the type to alter his role so the team can build or contend even as he declines.

The Lakers have become the Kobe show.
Its all about Kobe now. Everything revolves around him.
Team chemistry and balance plays a secondary role to Bryant's desires and his own personal stats.
In his Prime this wasn't much of an issue because he was so good individually and was able to find a decent enough balance where he could get his stats without completely fukking up team chemistry.
A declined Bryant doesn't have that ability or the luxury of choosing between the two anymore.

Kobe at this point and for atleast the last 3-4 years has just been holding the Lakers back outside of possibly money figures since Kobe is still a big draw.

Not sure how much any of that matters in the big picture though.
Kobe is "apparently" retireing this year so they can wait it out, try their best to develop guys around "the Kobe system" and then get serious next year and beyond.

I wouldn't call LAL the Titanic though.
That ship sunk years ago. Maybe in 2011.

Kobe played brilliantly in 2011 & 2012.
Maybe you should hold others accountable?

Like Howard, Gasol etc.
Fact is Kobe carried that squad to the playoffs in 2013 and they couldn't even win a single playoff game for him after his injury.

It's not Kobe's fault, Howard & Gasol didn't click on the court and Nash had back injuries. :facepalm

[ShaqTwizzle]

Only 3 teams have won MORE championships in their ENTIRE existence than Kobe Bryant has during his career.


Oh please.
Kobe won 2 titles as the man. The first 3 were mostly Shaq.
Not like Kobe was all that great during the 3peat (outside of their 01 run).

He also won his 2 titles when competition was weak.
I mean who the hell did he face in 2009?
An injured Houston team. A fodder Jazz team led by Boozer?
An injured single star Magic team without its 2nd best player?

Even in 2010 they faced an old far past its prime Phoenix team, a young baby OKC team and a hobbled Boston team that still managed to come within a hair of beating them.

Kobe's "team success" is vastly overrated.

[ShaqTwizzle]

Kobe played brilliantly in 2011 & 2012.
Maybe you should hold others accountable?


Kobe was incredibly ball dominant those years, forced those Laker offenses to revolve completely around him and was "the man" so doesn't he get the most blame?

He was absolutely atrocious in the 2011 playoffs and also played very poorly in the 2012 playoffs against OKC as they got eliminated.


Fact is Kobe carried that squad to the playoffs in 2013

Not really.
His level of play was pretty consistent from start to finish.

They had a better record down the stretch because of an incredibly easy schedule and because Dwight started playing better.
They also won their last few games and secured a playoff spot after Kobe got injured.

I thought Kobe was far better in 2013 then he was in 11 & 12 but even then his impact was overrated.
Despite having Dwight for most of the year and despite his big stats they still had a terrible record until the late stretch and even during that late stretch with the easy schedule they were still struggling to knock off some of the worst teams in the league.

Something doesn't add up. Big numbers don't always indicate big impact.
The game is far more complicated then that.
Kobe's extreme ball dominance and terrible defense limited his impact from 11-13.

[West-Side]

Oh please.
Kobe won 2 titles as the man. The first 3 were mostly Shaq.
Not like Kobe was all that great during the 3peat (outside of their 01 run).

He also won his 2 titles when competition was weak.
I mean who the hell did he face in 2009?
An injured Houston team. A fodder Jazz team led by Boozer?
An injured single star Magic team without its 2nd best player?

Even in 2010 they faced an old far past its prime Phoenix team, a young baby OKC team and a hobbled Boston team that still managed to come within a hair of beating them.

Kobe's "team success" is vastly overrated.

Thanks for confirming why I should ignore your future posts.

[ShaqTwizzle]

Thanks for confirming why I should ignore your future posts.

Have fun with that.
I am not a hater.

Kobe was one of the greatest players ever and had a very impressive Peak from 06-10 but a severely declined Kobe HAS been a cancer the last few years (with the possible exception of 2013) and his team success is overrated by many.

You didn't refute anything I said... probably because you know its true.

[!@#$%Vectors!@#]

This is a bit true. Kobe needs to take Tim Duncan or Ray Allen role on his teams. Be the Mentor play decent minutes but don't hinder the success of your team.

But Alpha Male Kobe Don't Care. :applause: :bowdown: :applause:

:pimp: Alpha's Gon Alpha

[-Stay Alpha]

[Mr Feeny]

Sort of true honestly.
Ever since Kobe's decline in 2011 he has become an obvious anchor holding the Lakers back from their needed rebuild since unlike Duncan, Mr. Bryant is not the type to alter his role so the team can build or contend even as he declines.

The Lakers have become the Kobe show.
Its all about Kobe now. Everything revolves around him.
Team chemistry and balance plays a secondary role to Bryant's desires and his own personal stats.
In his Prime this wasn't much of an issue because he was so good individually and was able to find a decent enough balance where he could get his stats without completely fukking up team chemistry.
A declined Bryant doesn't have that ability or the luxury of choosing between the two anymore.

Kobe at this point and for atleast the last 3-4 years has just been holding the Lakers back outside of possibly money figures since Kobe is still a big draw.

Not sure how much any of that matters in the big picture though.
Kobe is "apparently" retireing this year so they can wait it out, try their best to develop guys around "the Kobe system" and then get serious next year and beyond.

I wouldn't call LAL the Titanic though.
That ship sunk years ago. Maybe in 2011.

This is a really good post. It's insane to think if one player completely crippling a franchise the way this cancer has done over the past 3-4 years. Remarkable, really.

[West-Side]

Have fun with that.
I am not a hater.

Kobe was one of the greatest players ever and had a very impressive Peak from 06-10 but a severely declined Kobe HAS been a cancer the last few years (with the possible exception of 2013) and his team success is overrated by many.

You didn't refute anything I said... probably because you know its true.

Honestly, this forum seriously needs to start making prerequisites.
Like an IQ score above 100.

Anyone who thinks Kobe was a CANCER in 2011, 2012 or 2013 should really just stop watching basketball. The fact that you said "possible exception" referring to the season where Kobe was the BEST player for the last 2 months of the year, just solidifies my opinion of you.

27.3 - 5.6 - 6.0 - 1.4 (PPG - RPG - APG - SPG)
He shot 46% from the field.
He shot 51% from 2PT%.
His TS% was .57 (3rd highest of his career)

LA were 18-8 in their last 26 games before Kobe went down.
29.73 PPG, 6.30 RPG, 7.26 APG
224 for 453 (.494) FG%
.546 2PT%
.623 TS%

Some of his more memorable games out of that 26 game sample, where he leads his team back to playoff contention included:

40-7-4 on 65% Vs. Portland
38-12-7 on 62% Vs. Dallas
29-6-9 on 52% Vs. Denver
33-5-5 on 59% Vs. Minnesota

(Back to Back to Back to Back)

He proceeded to pick up 30+ points the next two games.

42-7-12 on 68% Vs. NO
41-6-12 on 50% Vs. Toronto

31-3-7 on 57% Vs. Minnesota (to snap LA's 3 game losing streak)

He also had back to back [19-9-14 & 23-11-11] games. Securing two more wins for his team.

His final 3 games were all wins against NO, POR & GS.
He finished that year:

30-6-6 (5 steals) on 50%
47-8-5 on 52%
34-5-4 on 43%

Kobe got injured on March 15th playing Indiana.
He would miss two subsequent games, and proceed to struggled coming back from the injury. Despite his incredible efficiency from the field, for 8 games after the injury he only shot [66 for 161] 41%.

LA went 4-4 during that stretch. Just to highlight how import Kobe was to LA that year; when he struggled, that team simply could not win games.

The fact that you would even suggest Kobe was a cancer in 2013 makes you look absolutely clueless. Just stop posting please, or select subjects you have some forms of knowledge in.

Kobe put up 25-5-5 on 49 2PT% in 2011 in 34 MPG.
He had a solid 55 TS% that year as well.

In the short season in 2012, Kobe struggled with his shot (43% from the field) but he still had a 28-5-5 season. At that point he logged in more minutes than Jordan has after he retired from the Wizards. His efficiency was better than Iverson's 2011 campaign, where he won the damn MVP award.

LA relied on an aging Kobe to carry the load offensively for them, and he did just fine. To call him a cancer in any of those 3 years just makes you look dumb.

This forum are notorious for hating on the man.
I mean they're actually making fun of the man for his 2014 & 2015 seasons. He was in his 19th & 20th seasons, over 35+ years of age coming off a torn achilles. :facepalm

[r15mohd]

In the short season in 2012, Kobe struggled with his shot (43% from the field) but he still had a 28-5-5 season. At that point he logged in more minutes than Jordan has after he retired from the Wizards. His efficiency was better than Iverson's 2011 campaign, where he won the damn MVP award.

LA relied on an aging Kobe to carry the load offensively for them, and he did just fine. To call him a cancer in any of those 3 years just makes you look dumb.

This forum are notorious for hating on the man.
I mean they're actually making fun of the man for his 2014 & 2015 seasons. He was in his 19th & 20th seasons, over 35+ years of age coming off a torn achilles. :facepalm

you're basically stating what all the execs are indicating with these remarks above...

LA relying on Kobe to carry the load is exactly a sinking ship. he CANT do it! he broke down because of his age and loss of athleticism, so don't indicate people on the forum are "hating" when this is exactly what everyone here is reiterating and what the execs said.

ShaqTwizzle had it right...pre-2011 Kobe could get his stats and not worry about it hampering the team as he was that skilled to compensate for the flaws he brought with that. he aged, broke down, and those spurts of heroics you posted are nothing but that...spurts. nothing consistent to take the team anywhere, and that is exactly what a sinking ship is and why he's referred to as a "cancer" in it destroying any future advancement of the Lakers. though I dont fully agree to him as a cancer either, as he can be helpful if he took a backseat and groomed the youth's instead of forcing his agenda and having them play off him.

[ShaqTwizzle]

Anyone who thinks Kobe was a CANCER in 2011, 2012


He was a semi-cancer in 2011 & 2012.
Despite clearly being past his Prime and having two great bigmen he rocked an absurd 35%+ usage rate over that span and frequently broke out of the team offense so he could gun for stats.

In 2012 he had a two month period (30+ games) where his TS% hovered just under 50% and his ORTG just under 100.
Despite that he maintained his excessive usage rate and high number of shot-attempts.

He made those teams overly reliant on him and did not do a good job of respecting the team aspect of the game which hurt his co-stars and made them less reliable when they were called to step up to the plate (like say in the playoffs).

Kobe was past his Prime but wasn't willing to give up his stature as a top guy so he played more selfishly.
This helped him maintain his numbers but in the bigger picture hurt those teams.


The fact that you said "possible exception" referring to the season where Kobe was the BEST player for the last 2 months of the year, just solidifies my opinion of you.

So.
According to you Laker's had the best player in the league and one of the best bigmen (Dwight) who played well down the stretch and yet their win differential was still terrible and they were struggling to beat many fodder teams.

As I said before something doesn't add up.
You can't have the best player in the league with perhaps the best performing bigmen at the time and be struggling to beat weak teams.

Anyway my current opinion of 2013 Kobe is quite positive so I don't see why we are discussing it.


Kobe put up 25-5-5 on 49 2PT% in 2011 in 34 MPG.
He had a solid 55 TS% that year as well.

So... the playoffs don't matter?
Kobe was atrocious against Dallas.


2012 LA relied on an aging Kobe to carry the load offensively for them.

No.
An old Kobe wanted to maintain his stats and stature so he "forced" Kobe ball on them.
They had enough offensive power on that team where Kobe didn't need to score that much.


I mean they're actually making fun of the man for his 2014 & 2015 seasons.

Well that is wrong and I haven't done that.


He was in his 19th & 20th seasons, over 35+ years of age coming off a torn achilles.

True enough.
Though I will say one can critize a past Prime Kobe while still appreciating how good he was during his Prime.

I think very highly of 06-10 Kobe even if at the same time I think his impact in 11 & 12 was quite minimal.

[Rooster]

you're basically stating what all the execs are indicating with these remarks above...

LA relying on Kobe to carry the load is exactly a sinking ship. he CANT do it! he broke down because of his age and loss of athleticism, so don't indicate people on the forum are "hating" when this is exactly what everyone here is reiterating and what the execs said.

ShaqTwizzle had it right...pre-2011 Kobe could get his stats and not worry about it hampering the team as he was that skilled to compensate for the flaws he brought with that. he aged, broke down, and those spurts of heroics you posted are nothing but that...spurts. nothing consistent to take the team anywhere, and that is exactly what a sinking ship is and why he's referred to as a "cancer" in it destroying any future advancement of the Lakers. though I dont fully agree to him as a cancer either, as he can be helpful if he took a backseat and groomed the youth's instead of forcing his agenda and having them play off him.

Don't you think we will be singing different tune if Stern did not cockblocked the CP3 trade or if Jim Buss set his ego aside and hired Phil Jackson instead of Pringles or use his brain and paid Kobe according instead of paying an extra gratuity.:confusedshrug:

Regarding Kobe's play, I must admit he was forcing a lot at the start last season but he realized he could not do it anymore, he became more of a playmaker and that's exactly I want from him this season.

[West-Side]

you're basically stating what all the execs are indicating with these remarks above...

LA relying on Kobe to carry the load is exactly a sinking ship. he CANT do it! he broke down because of his age and loss of athleticism, so don't indicate people on the forum are "hating" when this is exactly what everyone here is reiterating and what the execs said.

ShaqTwizzle had it right...pre-2011 Kobe could get his stats and not worry about it hampering the team as he was that skilled to compensate for the flaws he brought with that. he aged, broke down, and those spurts of heroics you posted are nothing but that...spurts. nothing consistent to take the team anywhere, and that is exactly what a sinking ship is and why he's referred to as a "cancer" in it destroying any future advancement of the Lakers. though I dont fully agree to him as a cancer either, as he can be helpful if he took a backseat and groomed the youth's instead of forcing his agenda and having them play off him.

I suppose our definition of the word "cancer" is different.
Kobe was not the best player in 2011 or 2012, he definitely didn't play like a top 5 player in 2012. In 2011, he was most definitely still one of the five best players in basketball. In 2013, he was quite easily top 3. Especially the way he carried his team to playoff contention.

You guys mention how he had two bigs, and that Howard was in large part the reason LA went 18-8 to finish the year. Yet, without Kobe they were swept by SA.

Kobe isn't Carmelo Anthony. What exactly separated him from Iverson (in 2001) where he was a volume scorer on low effiency? Is Iverson a cancer too? He won the MVP that year.

I think Kobe's 2011 & 2012 seasons are not in his top 10 best, but his 2013 season is easily one of his top six seasons of his career. Labeling him a cancer is a very strong term to use. To me it means, he was the reason LA failed to do anything significant that season. I disagree, I think his inconsistent play hurt the team from achieving more but its preposterous to not hold other players on the team accountable. There were many issues with LA post-2010 season. Bynum's immaturity, Gasol's lack of aggression, aging squad etc.

I can say Kobe played poorly due to low efficiency in the shortened season; however he was quite easily a top 5 player in the NBA in 2011 & 2013.


He was a cancer in 2011 & 2012.
Despite clearly being past his Prime and having two great bigmen he rocked an absurd 35%+ usage rate over that span and frequently broke out of the team offense so he could gun, forcing guys like Bynum and Gasol to rely on offensive rebounds or basically "scraps" for their own production.

Bynum averaged 13.3 shots per game in 2012.
The most he's attempted in his career.
The problem wasn't Kobe hogging the ball, it was Pau & Bynum's inability to play together on the court. Bynum clogged the lane and prevented Gasol from being in the paint.

In 2012, Gasol shot 50%.
Before Bynum's emergence, Pau shot 59%, 57%, 54% & 53%.
Notice how his FG% declined as the seasons progressed.

His shot attempts actually INCREASED, especially in 2011 & 2012 seasons.
He took 13.7 & 14.1 shots per game those years.
Before Bynum's emergence, he actually shot 12.3, 12.9 & 13.0 shots per game. (his MPG were nearly identical as well)

The problem wasn't Kobe at all, which is why I get so frustrated discussing basketball on this forum. It had to do with the dynamics of LA's front court. Gasol essentially became a spot up shooter once Bynum emerged. His shots actually went up but his efficiency went down.

[ShaqTwizzle]

I must admit he was forcing a lot at the start last season but he realized he could not do it anymore, he became more of a playmaker and that's exactly I want from him this season.

Its not just about being a scorer or being a playmaker.
Its about accepting a smaller role, playing fewer minutes and being less ball dominant. Its about putting in some actual effort on defense so they don't play 4 on 5 everytime.

Kobe-ball isn't gonna work that well regardless if he is focused on scoring or playmaking.

Kobe has been "forcing it" since 2011.
He could still be a great player (or could have been when healthy over the last few seasons) if he accepted a smaller role as Duncan did.

He can't be the main guy anymore. He has to be part of an ensamble effort where there will be nights when he doesn't put up much in the way of stats.
He needs to be more of a system player.

[Rooster]

He was a semi-cancer in 2011 & 2012.
Despite clearly being past his Prime and having two great bigmen he rocked an absurd 35%+ usage rate over that span and frequently broke out of the team offense so he could gun for stats.

In 2012 he had a two month period (30+ games) where his TS% hovered just under 50% and his ORTG just under 100.
Despite that he maintained his excessive usage rate and high number of shot-attempts.

He made those teams overly reliant on him and did not do a good job of respecting the team aspect of the game which hurt his co-stars and made them less reliable when they were called to step up to the plate (like say in the playoffs).

Kobe was past his Prime but wasn't willing to give up his stature as a top guy so he played more selfishly.
This helped him maintain his numbers but in the bigger picture hurt those teams.



So.
According to you Laker's had the best player in the league and one of the best bigmen (Dwight) who played well down the stretch and yet their win differential was still terrible and they were struggling to beat many fodder teams.

As I said before something doesn't add up.
You can't have the best player in the league with perhaps the best performing bigmen at the time and be struggling to beat weak teams.

Anyway my current opinion of 2013 Kobe is quite positive so I don't see why we are discussing it.



So... the playoffs don't matter?
Kobe was atrocious against Dallas.



No.
An old Kobe wanted to maintain his stats and stature so he "forced" Kobe ball on them.
They had enough offensive power on that team where Kobe didn't need to score that much.



Well that is wrong and I haven't done that.



True enough.
Though I will say one can critize a past Prime Kobe while still appreciating how good he was during his Prime.

I think very highly of 06-10 Kobe even if at the same time I think his impact in 11 & 12 was quite minimal.

The 2011 was disappointing to me. I really wanted to Kobe to be more on a playmaker mode. He could always score so I wanted him to kind of get those new role players get into the flow of offense. At that time everyone was booming of confidence but Kobe came back quickly, mostly concerned and looking for his shots. In short, talent was enough to get that 2nd seed but not enough offensive rhythm to win in all.

[West-Side]

Its not just about being a scorer or being a playmaker.
Its about accepting a smaller role, playing fewer minutes and being less ball dominant. Its about putting in some actual effort on defense so they don't play 4 on 5 everytime.

Kobe-ball isn't gonna work that well regardless if he is focused on scoring or playmaking.

Kobe has been "forcing it" since 2011.
He could still be a great player (or could have been when healthy over the last few seasons) if he accepted a smaller role as Duncan did.

He can't be the main guy anymore. He has to be part of an ensamble effort where there will be nights when he doesn't put up much in the way of stats.

:facepalm So again, you aren't holding D'Antoni accountable???
The same coach who was criticized for playing Kobe 42+ MPG so the team can make the playoffs (and ultimately save his job).

Kobe accumulated 44 MPG to end the 2013 season, which in large part why he got injured.

[West-Side]

The 2011 was disappointing to me. I really wanted to Kobe to be more on a playmaker mode. He could always score so I wanted him to kind of get those new role players get into the flow of offense. At that time everyone was booming of confidence but Kobe came back quickly, mostly concerned and looking for his shots. In short, talent was enough to get that 2nd seed but not enough offensive rhythm to win in all.

You're underestimating the lack of chemistry between Bynum & Gasol.
Which is why Lamar Odom was the perfect PF for LA during their championships. He was a versatile big who can stretch the floor and allow Gasol to score in the paint.

Bynum essentially made Pau a spot up shooter, which caused Pau to be less efficient and created significant spacing issues for the team.

[Magic 32]

The 2011 was disappointing to me. I really wanted to Kobe to be more on a playmaker mode. He could always score so I wanted him to kind of get those new role players get into the flow of offense. At that time everyone was booming of confidence but Kobe came back quickly, mostly concerned and looking for his shots. In short, talent was enough to get that 2nd seed but not enough offensive rhythm to win in all.

Why would you change your approach after back-to-back championships?

He shot 20.0 shots per game in 2010-11, the lowest number since 2003-04.

He broke down. That's all.

[ShaqTwizzle]

Kobe accumulated 44 MPG to end the 2013 season, which in large part why he got injured.

I don't entirely disagree with you.
However I think Kobe was the guy in charge back then and as he was playing well and probably enjoying it I am not sure Pringles could have forced him to play less minutes even if he wanted that.

Also I take no pleasure in hammering on Kobe and I don't say those 11 & 12 teams would have been better off without him or anything.
I just think you take away all blame from Bryant when he clearly deserves some of it.

Look at this game for example.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201203310LAL.html

Or this one.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201203180LAL.html

Kobe : 3-20
Gasol : 8-12
Bynum : 12-14

:kobe:

[ShaqTwizzle]

He shot 20.0 shots per game in 2010-11, the lowest number since 2003-04.


He played less minutes that year.
On a per minute basis he shot more in 2011 then he did in almost any other year.
Was the 3rd highest rate of his career behind 2006 and 2012.

[West-Side]

I don't entirely disagree with you.
However I think Kobe was the guy in charge back then and as he was playing well and probably enjoying it I am not sure Pringles could have forced him to play less minutes even if he wanted that.

Also I take no pleasure in hammering on Kobe and I don't say those 11 & 12 teams would have been better off without him or anything.
I just think you take away all blame from Bryant when he clearly deserves some of it.

Look at this game for example.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201203310LAL.html

Or this one.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201203180LAL.html

Kobe : 3-20
Gasol : 8-12
Bynum : 12-14

:kobe:

When you label someone a cancer, you're essentially blaming everything on him.

Sure, in 2012 Kobe is to blame for some of the failure. He didn't have an efficient season at all. But there were a ton of issues with LA from 2011 to 2015. Calling Kobe a cancer essentially means you're saying he was mainly responsible for LA's lack of success those seasons.

Lets ignore:

- Chris Paul trade; which essentially created chemistry issues. Made Lamar demand a trade from LA. Possibly made Pau less motivated to perform well on the team.

- Pau & Bynum's lack of cohesion.

- Aging squad, that lacked depth.

- Kobe's age & miles.

- Terrible coach who never emphasized defense. His style of coaching made absolutely no sense. You want to run and gun with a team consisting of 34 year old Kobe & two bigs as your best players?

- Dwight Howard's back surgery did have an impact on his play. He hasn't been the same since.

- Steve Nash injuries

I mean I can go on and name more but you get the idea. Blaming Kobe for LA's underachieving those seasons is foolish. When you actually look at the context and circumstances surrounding what LA went through and the construction of the team over those years, you'll understand that Kobe was far from a cancer.

[catch24]

Kobe wasn't a cancer in 2011, 2012 or 2013. Dude was still formidable and effective given the injuries he accumulated.

I don't think you can argue he made the Lakers worse in 2015 either. They were already dog shit. :oldlol:

Honestly if you just surround him with capable players, Kobe will adjust accordingly...permitting that he is healthy.

[Foster5k]

Honestly if you just surround him with capable players, he will adjust permitting he is healthy.
:biggums:

Kobe has that Iverson attitude. He's going to get his no matter what.

[Magic 32]

He played less minutes that year.
On a per minute basis he shot more in 2011 then he did in almost any other year.
Was the 3rd highest rate of his career behind 2006 and 2012.

20 shots in 34 minutes is somehow abnornal?

Again, why change your approach after back-to-back championships?

I saw every game that season. He was not in 2003/2012 chuck mode at all.

[ShaqTwizzle]

When you label someone a cancer, you're essentially blaming everything on him.

Fair enough.
Perhaps "cancer" was the wrong term.

I still feel like the potential of those 11 & 12 Laker squads was far from fully realized and a big part of that is because Kobe broke out of the team offense too much and took on a role that was too big for his declined self and a role that he didn't need to take given his roster.


20 shots in 34 minutes is somehow abnornal?
Again, why change your approach after back-to-back championships?


I suppose not I just felt like pointing out that it was the 3rd highest rate of his career.
Just an interesting statistical note if nothing else.

I never really criticized his 2011 reg-season.
His playoffs were the main issue that year.

[West-Side]

Fair enough.
Perhaps "cancer" was the wrong term.

I still feel like the potential of those 11 & 12 Laker squads was far from fully realized and a big part of that is because Kobe broke out of the team offense too much and took on a role that was too big for his declined self and a role that he didn't need to take given his roster.



I suppose not I just felt like pointing out that it was the 3rd highest rate of his career.
Just an interesting statistical note if nothing else.

I never really criticized his 2011 reg-season.
His playoffs were the main issue that year.

Honestly bro, I think it had a lot more to do with subtraction by addition.
The emergence of Bynum made LA worse, IMO.

It made the 2nd most important player on LA change his approach. It made him less efficient and as a result less impactful. It also didn't help that Bynum was a VERY selfish player. Almost, every-time he touched the ball he thought about scoring. It made Gasol take a lot more jumpers, which is why his efficiency dropped.

Lamar created a lot of mismatch problems for opposite teams. With Bynum in the middle, it actually made it far easier for teams to defend LA.

1) Gasol wasn't utilized properly in the paint.
2) Major spacing issues were created.
3) LA lacked outside shooting.
4) LA didn't have a lot of depth.

In reality, LA should have traded Bynum for some depth in 2010/2011. That would have been a very smart strategy to implement. I never understood why they went after Howard either. He create the same spacing issues as Bynum did.

Lamar had one of the best rebounding rates in the league, he could handle the ball and space the floor. He could also drive inside and score in the post.

The 11'-13' Laker team is a perfect example of why talent alone does not win you championships.

[AirFederer]

Breaking: Execs say Titanic has turned into Kobe :eek: :eek:

[Rooster]

You're underestimating the lack of chemistry between Bynum & Gasol.
Which is why Lamar Odom was the perfect PF for LA during their championships. He was a versatile big who can stretch the floor and allow Gasol to score in the paint.

Bynum essentially made Pau a spot up shooter, which caused Pau to be less efficient and created significant spacing issues for the team.

Nah those guys start together then subbing each other and usually Gasol and Odom finished the game. We needed Bynum to guard big guys like Duncan and anchor the team defensively. He is really a big presence but he can't run the triangle like Gasol. Gasol was more of a spot up shooter when Dwight Howard came to the scene.

[Rooster]

Why would you change your approach after back-to-back championships?

He shot 20.0 shots per game in 2010-11, the lowest number since 2003-04.

He broke down. That's all.

I did not realized his volume was down statiscally. It's not about changing your approach but Kobe had a off season knee surgery. He could have took it slowly but instead played a lot of minutes in that Euro tour. Then the season started and he was basically gunning and mainly looking for his shots.